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Dmajackson
Oct 17, 2008, 2:58 AM
New sidewalks down SGR will help out other residents of HRM. If it is successful it should attract more tourists (and locals) to shop there increasing our tax income. Besides narrowing the road might lead to less traffic and therefore less repair costs.

Yes, not every citizen of HRM will benefit directly from this but they will feel it indirectly in some way.

I never go in town anymore, especially not to SGR but I still support this idea, and the growth of the peninsula no matter how indirectly of the impact i feel here.

someone123
Oct 17, 2008, 3:19 AM
Many of the old houses are very distinctive and having them around improves the public realm significantly. I don't think the city should pay to hand out free houses to people, but some cost-sharing or simple proactiveness in this case may have made the difference.

Right now heritage and the public realm in the core are treated in a very lazy, indifferent way by the city. Things are getting better but the city still feels on some level like its character is eroding. I think of buildings like Keith Hall and can't believe that the city is squandering such unique assets. Barrington right now is a disgrace. Even on South Park St, those houses were torn down while in other areas there are empty lots marring what could be attractive, complete streetscapes.

There are parts of Halifax that should be considered national treasures but instead are dumpy and obscure. It's a real shame.

hoser111
Oct 17, 2008, 4:02 AM
The city could also end up sitting on 3 houses on public property that nobody wants! Then the taxpayers pay to demolish them....

Empire
Oct 17, 2008, 4:23 AM
Yes, yes, the poor taxpayers.....well we have the sensible outcome, tear down houses because we can.

sdm
Oct 17, 2008, 10:23 AM
Not all taxpayers benifit from new sidewalks on Spring Garden Rd. I guess you haven't seen the endless doubledecker tour busses and tourists enjoying traditional Halifax streetscapes. I would be willing to guess the new part of Morris St. (the new ugly part) is not on the tour guide agenda.

All taxpayers benefit, if they chose to walk SGR.

Endless tour busses? Now we are bringing in busses and tourist into this?
Are you saying we shouldn't economically develop our city because of tourist? Last time i checked tourism was down, and continuing to.

Empire
Oct 17, 2008, 11:11 AM
All taxpayers benefit, if they chose to walk SGR.

Endless tour busses? Now we are bringing in busses and tourist into this?
Are you saying we shouldn't economically develop our city because of tourist? Last time i checked tourism was down, and continuing to.

I'm saying HRM should be accountable for the destruction of a great city. The point is, good/great architecture in this city takes a back seat to what is in most cases cheap development. The Trillium is a good quality well designed building but there has to be another way to do good developments like this without eroding what makes Halifax very unique. It can be done both ways but it takes more effort than most are willing to offer. The result is the same as I mentioned before. Each year a half dozen buildings get eliminated that can never be replaced.

Takeo
Oct 17, 2008, 12:11 PM
I'm saying HRM should be accountable for the destruction of a great city. The point is, good/great architecture in this city takes a back seat to what is in most cases cheap development.

Agreed... and things do need to improve... but really... spending taxpayer money to have 3 houses sit on a public parking lot so they can be given away (hopefully)... not the best example. Can you imagine the uproar?! The cats and chickens wouldn't hold a candle to that fiasco! But yes, more does need to be done. These old homes have no protection whatsoever.

Empire
Oct 17, 2008, 2:05 PM
Agreed... and things do need to improve... but really... spending taxpayer money to have 3 houses sit on a public parking lot so they can be given away (hopefully)... not the best example.

This would be an emergency plan because there is no other plan......again without it they are now gone and I think you would be surprised at the amount of people who would support it.

Barrington south
Oct 17, 2008, 4:05 PM
I heard from a source, that it would have coast a huge amount of money just to move all the high voltage power lines that where blocking the houses in. The Houses where all taller then the power lines and these are the heavy duty, serious type of lines. It would have meant that a portion of the city would have been without power for some time and it would have required a large workforce to complete the entire move..... It was economically not viable, and was just a PR stunt by the Developer....Besides, I have an employee who lived in one of the houses and he said the interior was delapadated, from decades them being used as student housing. So if you consider the total coast of everthing, including bringing the interior up a reasonable standard, The city could fabricate brand new houses, built to the exact specifacations as the old ones for probably a simular cost.

Empire
Oct 17, 2008, 4:29 PM
The city could fabricate brand new houses, built to the exact specifacations as the old ones for probably a simular cost.

They could, but they're not and the houses are gone as will a number next year.

Takeo
Oct 17, 2008, 11:28 PM
This would be an emergency plan because there is no other plan......again without it they are now gone and I think you would be surprised at the amount of people who would support it.

Without knowing the cost, it would be hard to say if I would have supported that idea. I might have. But I think there would have been a lot of opposition. But I'm in 100% agreement (as I think most of us here are) that more needs to be done to protect our heritage properties.

It was a real shame to see those houses demolished. But the logistics involved would have been astounding. It probably was not economically feasible for what were nice looking old victorian homes with a lot of potential... but let's face it... run down and not exactly national treasures. Finding a lot, buying it and pouring a foundation in 6 weeks would have been the easy part! But you couldn't even do that until you worked out how to move them! You'd have to make sure you could actually get the houses to the lot you bought. Moving them would involve weeks of preparation to the houses themselves (shoring them up so everything stays put when you lift them), then there would be the actual lifting, putting them on dollies, preparing a route (approved by the city and the police), shutting down roads, taking down power lines, hiring cops and contractors and NSPI... etc. Think about it. It was a PR stunt. Completely unrealistic.

hfx_chris
Oct 17, 2008, 11:31 PM
Redoing the sidewalks on Spring Garden Rd. is "the taxpayers money" as well.

I'm saying HRM should be accountable for the destruction of a great city.

The sidewalks on SGR are for public use. Those houses are private property. HRM's accountability for the destruction of what I agree is a great city, only goes so far. Incentives are one thing, but buying up houses, paying to have them moved, renovating them and sitting on them for a few years in some lot is completely out of the scope of what HRM is responsible for.
And comparing it to improvements to public infrastructure are absurd.

Empire
Oct 18, 2008, 2:25 AM
The sidewalks on SGR are for public use. Those houses are private property. HRM's accountability for the destruction of what I agree is a great city, only goes so far. Incentives are one thing, but buying up houses, paying to have them moved, renovating them and sitting on them for a few years in some lot is completely out of the scope of what HRM is responsible for.
And comparing it to improvements to public infrastructure are absurd.

- the sidewalks on SGR are for about 15% of HRM and the rest of the use is for those aweful tourists
- the houses were free and the developer was paying a min. of $10,000 per house to move them
- HRM has the ability to approve the demolishing of buildings but has zero accountability for their actual demolition??

Barrington south
Oct 18, 2008, 3:35 PM
Empire...What's the matter with you? do you need to get your head examined or something? Anyone can walk do spring garden, therefore it's public!!!! END OF ARGUMENT!!! And what? you don't want tourists?!! Arn't they good for the economy? And if Halifax is such a great place like you profess, Then why would tourists not be here? And another thing, if you would like to see proper victorian architecture that makes a wonderful contrabution to a city than check out Cabbage Town or the Annex in Toronto... If 3 piece of crap, wooden, slum houses with a giant gap space inbetween them, are the best Halifax has to offer then we should be ashamed, because our historical legacy is crap, and it's crap in a prime location

Empire
Oct 18, 2008, 6:10 PM
Empire...What's the matter with you? do you need to get your head examined or something? Anyone can walk do spring garden, therefore it's public!!!! END OF ARGUMENT!!! And what? you don't want tourists?!! Arn't they good for the economy? And if Halifax is such a great place like you profess, Then why would tourists not be here? And another thing, if you would like to see proper victorian architecture that makes a wonderful contrabution to a city than check out Cabbage Town or the Annex in Toronto... If 3 piece of crap, wooden, slum houses with a giant gap space inbetween them, are the best Halifax has to offer then we should be ashamed, because our historical legacy is crap, and it's crap in a prime location

- personally I agree with improvements to SGR but would be willing to bet the majority of "taxpayers" in HRM would not. I have been to Cabbage Town and the Annex and the Brewery District in Toronto and the thing that struck me was that you can have very high density next door to historic neighbourhoods without demolishing them.
- take a look at the north end...there are many buildings there that were what you would call a "piece of crap, wooden slum houses" and now have been refurbished.....these buildings add more to the neighbourhood than the fake brick & vinyl sided buildings like the Longshorman's Club on Morris.

Keith P.
Oct 18, 2008, 8:29 PM
Look, in the real world, while people may admire old wooden frame Victorian houses, the number of people who actually want to live in one and put up with the constant maintenance, the need for insulation and window upgrades given today's heating costs. the typically small interior spaces, etc., is limited. Those houses on Agricola (I presume) you referred to are getting refurbed right now because that is a trendy area, not because the houses themselves are anything special. We'll see what happens there in another decade or so. That sort of lifestyle isn't for everybody. I was looking at a property on Duncan St today -- a street I seldom travel upon -- and concluded I didn't want to live there. It is full of turn of the century houses cheek by jowl with each other and you are at the mercy of your neighbors. In that case there appears to be a significant number of rental properties with student housing and I don't want that for my neighbors, along with the typical problems of parking, noise, etc you get in that kind of environment. It is fine for others, but I don't care for it. My point is that you have to respond to what the market demands and attempts to direct that to go in a certain way can only go so far.

someone123
Oct 18, 2008, 9:57 PM
It's not for everybody (though I think it appeals to a growing number of people, and the resurgence of popularity of the North End attests to this - it wouldn't be trendy if people hated it the style of housing!), but then again these are just a few small parts of a much larger city. Most of Halifax is modern suburbs and even in areas like the one in question a large number of people live in modern multi-unit buildings.

hfx_chris
Oct 19, 2008, 12:55 AM
- the sidewalks on SGR are for about 15% of HRM and the rest of the use is for those aweful tourists I'm curious to see where in the bylaws it says that what I always thought were public sidewalks are in fact only allowed to be used by 15% of HRM residents, and the other 85% are for those greasy tourists?
- the houses were free and the developer was paying a min. of $10,000 per house to move themWas the developer also going to pay to fix them up to at least a saleable condition?
- HRM has the ability to approve the demolishing of buildings but has zero accountability for their actual demolition??Why should they? Their responsibility should be to make sure the demolition permit meets the requirements, then approve. HRM doesn't own the property.

Empire
Oct 19, 2008, 2:21 AM
I'm curious to see where in the bylaws it says that what I always thought were public sidewalks are in fact only allowed to be used by 15% of HRM residents, and the other 85% are for those greasy tourists?
Was the developer also going to pay to fix them up to at least a saleable condition?
Why should they? Their responsibility should be to make sure the demolition permit meets the requirements, then approve. HRM doesn't own the property.

- what percentage of people "taxpayers" benefit from $3,000,000 in mainly asthetic upgrades to Spring Garden Rd.? from a usage perspective it would be low......the point is this, taxpayers money is used for new sidewalks on SPG to attract tourists.....it has been firmly estiblished that in addition to SGR, tourists also enjoy our built heritage......so wouldn't it follow that a small amount of "taxpayers money" could be used to protect that asset as well?
- it was always know that funding would be required to save the houses on South Pk....not "taxpayers money" entilely but something along the lines of Heritage Canada or Habitat for Humanity. The only thing that "taxpayers" would have to sweat about would be a dozen lost parking spaces at the Infirmary site for a few months if the houses could be moved there temporarily.
- by going by the book HRM ensures that all of the lumber from demolitions ends up in there own landfill....if they were a bit more proactive they would have measures in place would prevent the endless destruction of buildings that can never be rebuilt.
- in 30 years when someone wants to tear down the Longshoreman's Club will anyone care?

Keith P.
Oct 19, 2008, 11:59 AM
This is not about the Longshoreman's Club. I seriously doubt if it was a tourist attraction.

Second point: HRM does not yet own the Infirmary lands, it is still provincial property. No transfer has taken place. Assuming the houses could have even been moved given the problems with power lines, etc, I am unsure where they would be placed.

Third point: give it up about the SGR sidewalks. Tax dollars are typically spent on beautification of major streetscapes. SGR is Halifax's signature street and to have it peppered with power poles and overhead lines along with narrow sidewalks is a real black eye for the city. It is a useful thing to do.

I understand you are upset with the loss of the houses, despite the fact they were run down and really only a shell for someone to reconstruct an appropriate interior. Perhaps council should have made their relocation a condition of the development agreement. I don't know if that was even possible. But it's time to give it up and move on to ideas that can keep this from happening the next time.

Empire
Oct 19, 2008, 1:01 PM
This is not about the Longshoreman's Club. I seriously doubt if it was a tourist attraction.

But it's time to give it up and move on to ideas that can keep this from happening the next time.

- The Longshoreman's club replaced a building almost identical to one further up the street that is a registered heritage property,

So the issues are:
1. Destroying buildings that potentially could be registered heritage properties and replacing them subgrade structures.
2. Finding a way to allow developments like Trillium to proceed while reasonably protecting buildings from being destroyed like the black house on the corner of South Pk. and Brenton.

hfx_chris
Oct 19, 2008, 3:34 PM
- what percentage of people "taxpayers" benefit from $3,000,000 in mainly asthetic upgrades to Spring Garden Rd.? from a usage perspective it would be low......the point is this, taxpayers money is used for new sidewalks on SPG to attract tourists.....it has been firmly estiblished that in addition to SGR, tourists also enjoy our built heritage......so wouldn't it follow that a small amount of "taxpayers money" could be used to protect that asset as well?
Okay. I can actually see that some people out there plan a trip to Halifax to gaze upon our historic structures. I don't believe that's what the majority of visitors to Halifax come here for, but I can see that some do. However, I cannot even remotely fathom that the sidewalks on Spring Garden are a huge tourist draw. Whether the sidewalks are widened or the power lines are buried or not does not matter, if you're already visiting Halifax, you're probably going to add a walk up SGR to your itinerary. Beautification projects on SGR will primarily affect the people who live and work here, you know the ones who have to battle with SGR every day of their lives. The only effect it will have on tourists is that they will leave SGR with better memories of it.
- it was always know that funding would be required to save the houses on South Pk....not "taxpayers money" entilely but something along the lines of Heritage Canada or Habitat for Humanity. The only thing that "taxpayers" would have to sweat about would be a dozen lost parking spaces at the Infirmary site for a few months if the houses could be moved there temporarily.Plus the extra costs of moving, I doubt what the developer was putting up was going to be enough to complete the move. Plus renting the spots as the Infirmary land is still owned by the province. Plus erecting some sort of barrier around the site, and hiring a private guard to patrol the site at night. Add to that the costs of fixing them up to saleable condition, insurance no doubt as well. Then what happens when some little freak breaks in and torches the houses? If you don't think that a couple of houses standing in the middle of a vacant lot for months on end are going to be prime targets for vandalism, you're joking yourself.
- by going by the book HRM ensures that all of the lumber from demolitions ends up in there own landfill....if they were a bit more proactive they would have measures in place would prevent the endless destruction of buildings that can never be rebuilt.Now your arguments are just getting silly, saying that the city is issuing demolition permits so they can make extra money at the landfills.

someone123
Oct 19, 2008, 7:24 PM
However, I cannot even remotely fathom that the sidewalks on Spring Garden are a huge tourist draw. Whether the sidewalks are widened or the power lines are buried or not does not matter, if you're already visiting Halifax, you're probably going to add a walk up SGR to your itinerary.

Everything matters in aggregate - there is always some marginal utility and cost. Few people would come to Halifax specifically to stare at the sidewalk but the level of attractiveness of the city creates a more favourable impression for everybody. This makes people want to spend more time there (visitors and residents), which in turn means more businesses etc.

hfx_chris
Oct 19, 2008, 7:30 PM
As I said, tourists will leave with a better memory of their experience on SGR.

someone123
Oct 19, 2008, 8:00 PM
Which means that they are more likely to come back, to recommend the city to friends, or to write favourable reviews about the city. Maybe some will come back to live. Some of the visitors are suburbanites or live in other parts of the region and could decide to come in to the city more often to shop. If there's good shopping and there are a lot of amenities they're all more likely to want to live in the area, or maybe even come back to open up another business themselves. It happens all the time.

Streetscaping projects can have a huge impact on the popularity of an area. If you travel a bit you quickly realize that Halifax is really dumpy compared to many other cities, particularly the popular tourist destinations, and it is definitely something that visitors notice and care about.

hfx_chris
Oct 20, 2008, 9:22 PM
Exactly

Empire
Oct 20, 2008, 11:00 PM
Hopefully there were lessons learned from the sidewalk improvements on Portland St. and Lower Water / Bedford Row area. The brick used on the sidewalks has heaved broken up. The brick crosswalks are either paved over or potholes. On Portland St. for the most part the improvements are now shabby and falling apart. We need a quality job on SGR or in 2-5 years it will have the same fate. If you look at Bay St., Robson St. or Sheerbrook St. the difference is clear........quality as in marble and polished granite instead of coarse aggregate and concrete.

someone123
Oct 21, 2008, 12:01 AM
Granite and marble are very expensive materials. Maybe they will add granite curbs to SGR. The pavers they've been using around the city look quite nice when first installed, but I don't know how well they last. Doesn't Victoria Park still look pretty good?

Heating the sidewalks would help a lot with the weathering presumably while also making the street safer and cleaner. Pipes would have to be installed but then I don't think energy costs would be that bad since the heating wouldn't have to be on all the time. Some money would be saved over time since snow removal would be unnecessary.

The other big part of the streetscaping would be to have consistent street furniture, lighting, signage, and trees.

cormiermax
Oct 21, 2008, 12:10 AM
I was at the site today. They are making great progress with tearing up those houses. Only one more to go.

sdm
Oct 21, 2008, 12:33 AM
Granite and marble are very expensive materials. Maybe they will add granite curbs to SGR. The pavers they've been using around the city look quite nice when first installed, but I don't know how well they last. Doesn't Victoria Park still look pretty good?

Heating the sidewalks would help a lot with the weathering presumably while also making the street safer and cleaner. Pipes would have to be installed but then I don't think energy costs would be that bad since the heating wouldn't have to be on all the time. Some money would be saved over time since snow removal would be unnecessary.

The other big part of the streetscaping would be to have consistent street furniture, lighting, signage, and trees.

Heated sidewalks are actually very costly to run.

They can always do stamped concrete with some inlay of granite or other material.

Your bang on with the streetscaping ie benches, trees, signage and trees.

Empire
Oct 21, 2008, 12:37 AM
Granite and marble are very expensive materials. Maybe they will add granite curbs to SGR. The pavers they've been using around the city look quite nice when first installed, but I don't know how well they last. Doesn't Victoria Park still look pretty good?


Polished granite and marble can be used for trim work around planters etc. as well as entrances to stores that are recessed from the sidewalk line. 1801 Hollis has identified the value in granite and installed it on there mini plaza at the entrance to their building.

someone123
Oct 21, 2008, 1:05 AM
I would assume that they'll use that for detailing. I thought you were suggesting paving the sidewalks with it.

If I remember correctly, the planters around the main entrance area of the Public Gardens have granite cladding. I'm pretty happy with the renovations to the Public Gardens in general (the canteen and fountain area looks nice), and I would expect the plan for SGR to use similar materials and fixtures.

Empire
Oct 21, 2008, 1:23 AM
The entrance to the Public Gardens is very nice as is the fountain area by the canteen. In Yorkville they have used a type of ceramic for the walkways between shoppes. Hopefully all options are being explored for use on the SGR sidewalks.

Jonovision
Oct 21, 2008, 3:11 AM
Great discussion going, but remember this is a thread about the Trillium. The Spring Garden Road refurbishment has it's own thread.

Dmajackson
Oct 23, 2008, 7:28 PM
Checked the Trillium website today.

They now have the 360 DEGREE TOUR AVAILABLE (http://www.thetrillium.ca/360degree.php).

Some gorgeous views from that building. Nice retail aspect also. Just makes me so much more excited to see this go up :D

hfx_chris
Oct 23, 2008, 11:59 PM
Funny, there was so much talk about how this would be completely out of place in this location, but... it looks like it was made for this spot! Well, it is.. but you know what I mean. Not at all out of place.

someone123
Oct 24, 2008, 1:25 AM
Yep, it's in what is predominantly a highrise neighbourhood. Totally appropriate, and I hope more buildings like this are constructed. The video makes me wish those Clyde Street lots were gone, and hope that the library moves along. The empty sites really stand out in a negative way.

The view down South Park St from Sackville or so will be pretty nice when this building is done.

Wishblade
Oct 24, 2008, 1:25 AM
Funny, there was so much talk about how this would be completely out of place in this location, but... it looks like it was made for this spot! Well, it is.. but you know what I mean. Not at all out of place.

Who on earth would think that this would have been out of place. Out of every location in the entire city, this is the place I would have considered to be the best fitting spot all along, and I still stand by that.

Jonovision
Oct 24, 2008, 3:45 AM
Really nice video.....although I question how they got the rights to use Coldplays new song in it?!

Awesome building though. And perfect locations!

HaliStreaks
Oct 24, 2008, 1:33 PM
Really nice video.....although I question how they got the rights to use Coldplays new song in it?!

They probably didn't lol, or if they did, they probably paid a couple grand to use it JUST for this vid..

worldlyhaligonian
Oct 24, 2008, 9:32 PM
Nice. I hope there is a cafe and high end clothing retailer moving into the groundfloor. Something not too haute couture such as Burberry or Lacoste would likely do well in that location.

hfx_chris
Oct 24, 2008, 10:44 PM
Who on earth would think that this would have been out of place.
You don't remember the public appeals process in which handfuls of nearby residents and the usual HT members spoke out against the proposal, saying it was out of place in this area?
Well, that's what happened, if you missed it. And I think that video proves them wrong.

Wishblade
Oct 24, 2008, 11:35 PM
You don't remember the public appeals process in which handfuls of nearby residents and the usual HT members spoke out against the proposal, saying it was out of place in this area?
Well, that's what happened, if you missed it. And I think that video proves them wrong.

No, I didnt miss that, I saw every moment. What I was meaning to say is who in their right mind would think it was out of place. The HT does not count as 'in the right mind' lol.

dartmouthian
Oct 25, 2008, 2:18 AM
the HT seems to think that any tall building is out of place, no matter where it is

sdm
Oct 25, 2008, 10:22 AM
the HT seems to think that any tall building is out of place, no matter where it is


True

however this building is a perfect fit. Lets see it built.

Dmajackson
Oct 25, 2008, 6:02 PM
I finally managed to get in town again and things are starting to look good on South Park and Agricola. That whole stretch is going to look a lot better in a couple of years.

I don't know if anybody mentioned this earlier but the last house is gone. They were clearing up the debris today. :)

hfx_chris
Oct 26, 2008, 3:07 AM
No, I didnt miss that, I saw every moment. What I was meaning to say is who in their right mind would think it was out of place. The HT does not count as 'in the right mind' lol.
Then I guess just the residents

Dmajackson
Nov 7, 2008, 8:40 PM
Every so often i check the Trillium's website and they now have the progress page started. Mind you the picture on here is more updated than theres but this atleast means that they'll probably start soon.

Anybody care to guess how long until they start digging for the parkade?

kph06
Nov 7, 2008, 9:06 PM
I walk by this site each day, and they have an excavator on site digging, I believe they started Tuesday, and they already have some decent sized piles of dirt built up.

worldlyhaligonian
Nov 7, 2008, 9:09 PM
http://www.flickr.com/photos/savage_industry/3009528037/

This is the most recent picture I can find, unfortunately it won't let me embed the pic. Check out the link though, it has a before and after demo shots.

Dmajackson
Nov 11, 2008, 4:52 AM
Found some pictures from this week on this. Unfortunately i can paste them here but here is the link; Midexies @ flickr (http://www.flickr.com/photos/midexies/sets/72157607631118436/?page=3)

Haliguy
Nov 11, 2008, 10:05 PM
Here's an updated pic of the site I got today.

http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j260/a_gallant/IMG_0025.jpg

Haliguy
Nov 11, 2008, 10:08 PM
Here's an updated pic of the site I got today.

http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j260/a_gallant/IMG_0025_1.jpg

HaliStreaks
Nov 13, 2008, 11:15 PM
Anyone else see the news today that they've found old foundations, plates and bottles and other old crap while they were excavating for the foundation today?

From what I heard, the project is now on hold till they get all the historical stuff out of the ground....

Dmajackson
Nov 13, 2008, 11:37 PM
That certianly interesting. I guess it is on an old site. Of course it could just be litter from being on one of the busiest streets in town (except for the old foundations).

Haliguy
Nov 14, 2008, 1:46 AM
Dig unearths old foundations at Halifax condo site
Last Updated: Thursday, November 13, 2008 | 5:35 PM AT Comments0Recommend9CBC News
Archeologists hope some of the artifacts will be put on display in the new condo building. (Pam Berman/CBC)The remains of two buildings from the late 1800s have been found on the site of a new condominium in downtown Halifax.

Since the Trillium project was approved in August, three homes have been torn down and some large machinery has moved in — and so have the archeologists.

After digging at the corner of South Park and Brenton streets, they've uncovered a number of small artifacts.

"We've found a few pretty interesting things," said project leader Robin Crook. "We've got a lady's shoe in here, and it's leather. Based on its style, it looks to be Victorian."

The other items include bottles and a button.

The group has also excavated two separate foundations: one a long, straight stone wall from a large home and the other from a smaller brick building.

This button was uncovered in the dig, along with a lady's shoe. (Pam Berman/CBC)
But the mystery doesn't end there for archeologist Stephen Davis.

"This is the sort of thing we were looking for that you don't find in the historic records. These are out buildings. And we're not even sure of the function of them," he said.

Davis expects his group will finish working at the site in a couple of weeks. Once the archeologists photograph what they've uncovered, they'll write a report for the Nova Scotia Archives.

Davis said there have been some discussions with the developer to put the artifacts on display in the new building.

Construction of the 19-storey Trillium project is expected to take place over the winter.

worldlyhaligonian
Nov 14, 2008, 7:15 PM
A button, big news.

I just want this project to officially start.

HaliStreaks
Nov 14, 2008, 7:21 PM
I say, just remove everything, sort it out at a different location and let the construction continue.

Haliguy
Nov 15, 2008, 1:45 AM
My thoughts exactly, get on with it...

someone123
Nov 15, 2008, 10:05 PM
It's worth taking a couple of weeks to check these sites since they have been developed for so long and it's a one-time opportunity. I believe they found a number of items at the Salter's Gate site that are now on display (haven't seen them though).

Empire
Nov 15, 2008, 11:41 PM
My thoughts exactly, get on with it...

The development agreement provides for an archeological dig if any features or items are found. A foundation, shoe, button etc. will spark an official excavation. The archeological dig at Salters Gate lasted 3 months. Many of the articles are displayed in the lobby of the hotel with low ceilings. This is a very important part of the development and can be an invaluable source for historical data. This is the least that can be done after throwing away three valuable houses like yesterday's trash.

worldlyhaligonian
Nov 16, 2008, 12:02 AM
You know that this is a "skyscraper" forum right?

Those houses were horribly run down and the well maintained houses next door remain. I prefer the city doesn't look like such a dump.

Dmajackson
Nov 16, 2008, 12:32 AM
^Well i don't mind saying that if artifacts were found there an inverstigation should happen. No matter how run down thses buildings were this is an old lot that has been used for hundreds of years.

Of course i hope they are through and quick while doing this though.

Haliguy
Nov 16, 2008, 12:57 AM
I don't mind them investigating their find. I just hope they don't take to long. I would think they would want to start digging as soon as they can before it gets to cold.

worldlyhaligonian
Nov 16, 2008, 6:35 AM
I don't mind them investigating their find. I just hope they don't take to long. I would think they would want to start digging as soon as they can before it gets to cold.

My opinion exactly. If we didn't have a Canadian winter I would be less concerned.

Empire
Nov 16, 2008, 2:46 PM
My opinion exactly. If we didn't have a Canadian winter I would be less concerned.

This type of project is not adversely affected by the season. Although it is not as efficient to work in winter, frost isn't an issue as the excavaters will easily dig through it. Projects this size take a year - year and half so they will be working through winter at some point anyway.

sdm
Nov 16, 2008, 4:01 PM
This type of project is not adversely affected by the season. Although it is not as efficient to work in winter, frost isn't an issue as the excavaters will easily dig through it. Projects this size take a year - year and half so they will be working through winter at some point anyway.

You obviously have no understanding of construction if you don't think a project like this isn't adversely affected by the season.

Of course you can dig a hole with excavaters, even in frost..... thats not what affects a project due to the winter season.

kph06
Nov 16, 2008, 4:13 PM
Winter is a terrible time to be starting foundation work and definitely is an obstacle. Yes, excavators can deal with frost but in my experience I have seen frost treated like rock, where the breakers and rippers have to come out before the bucket can be used to actually remove the material, so to say it is not an issue is a vast understatement. That is the reason why the underground pipe business shuts down every winter. The next problem is snow cover, this slows everything down and when it comes to back-filling there can't be any snow mixed in because this will eventually melt, causing voids which lead to compaction issues which leads to risk of settlement issues. Finally work is much slower for the men doing the work as as the machines, man and machine are colder so work is slower. At least if you are out of the ground you can tarp in the area in and provide heat for the workers, machines and curing concrete, but if you are held up and start foundations late it is near impossible to tarp in an excavation. These issues can be dealt with, but definitely slow the process down to a snails pace. I'm sure the plan was to get foundations in before the winter got to bad for the above mentioned reasons.

Empire
Nov 16, 2008, 6:25 PM
Winter is a terrible time to be starting foundation work and definitely is an obstacle. Yes, excavators can deal with frost but in my experience I have seen frost treated like rock, where the breakers and rippers have to come out before the bucket can be used to actually remove the material, so to say it is not an issue is a vast understatement.

It is not an issue in terms of stopping a large project. Yes it is slower but many foundations for large projects are started in the winter. Two or three months of rain and high wind in the spring can slow the pace as well but the show must go on and the project is usually driven by schedule not the season. Fares Group knows there is no chance of having that site excavated 30ft. down and footings in/backfilled etc, before winter so maybe they will wait until spring and lose 6 months from the schedule.

Haliguy
Nov 16, 2008, 7:28 PM
It is not an issue in terms of stopping a large project. Yes it is slower but many foundations for large projects are started in the winter. Two or three months of rain and high wind in the spring can slow the pace as well but the show must go on and the project is usually driven by schedule not the season. Fares Group knows there is no chance of having that site excavated 30ft. down and footings in/backfilled etc, before winter so maybe they will wait until spring and lose 6 months from the schedule.


Great wait until until spring why does everything have to happen so slow around here.

Jonovision
Nov 16, 2008, 9:34 PM
I doubt they will wait till spring. They will just plow through. It seems to me like many projects in town lay their foundations in winter. I know Salters Gate did. And I'm pretty sure the Paramount did as well.

Empire
Nov 16, 2008, 10:56 PM
I doubt they will wait till spring. They will just plow through. It seems to me like many projects in town lay their foundations in winter. I know Salters Gate did. And I'm pretty sure the Paramount did as well.

You are correct. Hopefully they forge on instead of leaving a pile of broken glass and belt buckles from the 19th century in a mound of sludge.

Dmajackson
Nov 25, 2008, 8:17 PM
The websites updated again. They now have the Building Specifics online.

Has this started back up yet? or is the dig still in progress?

BTW the expected completion date is Fall 2010....And there are a total of 84 units. So average of two per unit would equal about 160-170 people living in this.

Barrington south
Nov 26, 2008, 1:34 AM
at first I thought to myself, considering all the 1 bedroom's, jn 1 bedroom's and batchelors in the trillium, I think the average number of people per unit is closer to 1.5, then I checked out the web site and the building seems to be almost all 2 bedroom's, so I think your right bedford dj, around 2 peeps per unit

Haliguy
Nov 26, 2008, 9:28 PM
Drove by there today and looks as though they are finished the archaeological dig and are now going full out digging. Its a bit of a miss... South Park st is covered in dirt right now. Oh well just glad to see this development moving along.

Dmajackson
Dec 13, 2008, 11:51 PM
They've defenitely resumed digging. The holes getting quite big now.

How many levels of parking are there for this? If its just one they might be near the bottom now.

worldlyhaligonian
Jan 8, 2009, 7:49 PM
They are one level down over the whole site, I'm not sure if they are going to pour the foundation/ug parking or keep digging.

JET
Jan 9, 2009, 1:47 PM
I walked by this site yesterday morning, and while they were moving dirt around, only part of the footprint (in trenches) seemed to be as far down as the basement of the old buildings. But at least there is work being done. JET

BravoZulu
Jan 15, 2009, 4:59 PM
Any more progress to report?

sdm
Jan 15, 2009, 5:50 PM
Any more progress to report?

Moving dirt around, slowly..... no crane yet

BravoZulu
Jan 15, 2009, 7:06 PM
Moving dirt around, slowly..... no crane yet

Well here's to hoping we'll see one soon. I can't imagine paying someone to be there moving earth around for no reason. They must be making some sort of progress no matter how slow it is.

JET
Jan 15, 2009, 8:18 PM
Trucks are there continually removing dirt, but it does seem to be slow progress. But slow and steady, is better than inactivity, or a parking lot. JET

Dmajackson
Jan 15, 2009, 9:08 PM
Progress is good but I would love to see a crane for one of the big projects soon.

I'm actually starting to think that we might see a crane up for the NSP project before this one...

Jonovision
Jan 15, 2009, 9:50 PM
I would say march for a crane for this one. They have to finish digging the whole, and lay a few footings before the crane goes up.

kph06
Jan 15, 2009, 9:54 PM
I agree it could be a few months, I'd say they'll have to go deep for this one. The W suits has probably a similar footprint and has 2 levels of parking, so I would imagine this would need at least 3. The crane will go up once they get the depth right and some footings poured, probably enough for a strong base to attach the crane as the crane will be needed to move the form work and concrete for the rest of the basement.

Haliguy
Jan 16, 2009, 2:56 AM
I have a question do you think they will have to get the power lines out of the way before the put a crane up?

Jonovision
Jan 17, 2009, 3:38 AM
Do you mean bury them? I would assume that would come later when they put the sidewalk back in. Maybe once the structure reaches street level.

Haliguy
Jan 17, 2009, 3:03 PM
Do you mean bury them? I would assume that would come later when they put the sidewalk back in. Maybe once the structure reaches street level.


Yeah thats what I meant. It seemed to me when Salters Gate went up they buried the wires before major construction began.

Haliguy
Jan 17, 2009, 8:15 PM
Here's a few pics I got today.

http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j260/a_gallant/IMG_0329.jpg

http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j260/a_gallant/IMG_0332.jpg

http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j260/a_gallant/IMG_0331.jpg

Dmajackson
Jan 18, 2009, 1:03 AM
The hole isnt nearly as deep as it looks from the street. Thats only what ten feet at the most?

Haliguy
Jan 18, 2009, 2:05 AM
The hole isnt nearly as deep as it looks from the street. Thats only what ten feet at the most?

Actually its deeper than it looks in the pictures. Its probably around 18 or so feet down.

Dmajackson
Jan 18, 2009, 2:20 AM
Actually its deeper than it looks in the pictures. Its probably around 18 or so feet down.

So approximately two floors down? Man those pictures are deceiving for scale.

They must be near the bottom by now. I don't believe there was anymore than 2 floors of parking for this...

pnightingale
Jan 18, 2009, 2:04 PM
So approximately two floors down? Man those pictures are deceiving for scale.

They must be near the bottom by now. I don't believe there was anymore than 2 floors of parking for this...

Don't forget that a building this tall would need a pretty big footing, so a good portion of what gets dug out will be solid concrete.

Haliguy
Jan 18, 2009, 2:09 PM
Yeah I think they will have to go down a bit futher yet. I think they will want to dig into the bedrock and they are just starting to get down into it now.

Dmajackson
Jan 18, 2009, 4:14 PM
Yeah I think they will have to go down a bit futher yet. I think they will want to dig into the bedrock and they are just starting to get down into it now.

This project proved me wrong but I always thought the bedrock was only about ten feet below street level. Because where I live theres exposed rock in my backyard.

Jonovision
Jan 18, 2009, 5:09 PM
The level of bedrock varies greatly around the city. And in general the rule on the peninsula is the closer you get to the citadel the farther down you have to dig to attain bedrock as the citadel itself is a large mound of aggregate deposited on top of the bedrock.

I would think that they will at least double the depth of the hole. Look at the new Dal Admin building up on Coburg. That hole goes down at least 20 ft into the bedrock.

Haliguy
Jan 18, 2009, 7:31 PM
Its hard to tell I might be wrong with 18ft but it is for sure over 10ft.

sdm
Jan 23, 2009, 1:58 PM
News in the allnovascotia that only 17 units have been signed under a purchase and sale agreement so far.

Total units are 84, so a few more to go.

phrenic
Jan 23, 2009, 3:35 PM
Any idea on the price of the penthouse?

sdm
Jan 23, 2009, 4:44 PM
Any idea on the price of the penthouse?

Penthouse, 4.5 Million.

I believe they need 60-70% presold to begin