Canadian Business Thread [Archive] - SkyscraperPage Forum

WaterlooInvestor

Oct 24, 2007, 12:40 PM

This thread is to discuss Canadian Business. I'll start things off with the latest headline:

RIM shares hits fresh high on China deal
Teams up with telecom giant Alcatel-Lucent to sell BlackBerrys in China
David George-Cosh, Financial Post
Published: Tuesday, October 23, 2007

http://a123.g.akamai.net/f/123/12465/1d/media.canada.com/7a4888e3-c989-437e-8733-3426839d7f90/canada-rim_.jpg
Research in Motion co-CEO Jim Balsillie is silhouetted while speaking at the Ottawa Centre for Research and Innovation Technology Showcase. RIM has partnered with telecom giant Alcatel-Lucent to sell BlackBerry wireless devices in China.

Investors yesterday sent Research in Motion Ltd.'s stock to a record high, at one point making it the most valuable company in the country during trading yesterday, after revealing it had partnered with telecom giant Alcatel-Lucent to sell BlackBerry wireless devices in China.

The manufacturer saw its stocks surge to $120.42 on the TSX, up 8.19% following the announcement that their 8700 BlackBerry model would be distributed in the booming Chinese market later this year, though no specific date was given for distribution. The stock jumped US$11.15, or 9.8%, to close at US$124.53 on the Nasdaq market.

Canaccord Adams senior technology analyst Peter Misek said RIM's developments in China are just the beginning of what could be a banner year for the Waterloo, Ont.-based company.

"This is going to be the biggest company in Canada," said Mr. Misek, who rates RIM as a "buy." "The company is a world beater and its technology is second-to-none. It's got an excellent execution engine and tremendous earnings growth."

"This is just step one for RIM in China. They're going to have additional partnerships, additional devices, additional services," he added.

China poses a huge opportunity for RIM. The country is relatively untapped in terms of mobile device penetration, with more than 10 million workers employed in Fortune 1000 companies and around 400 million middle-class residents who have found themselves flush with disposable income and with a culture that embraces new, exciting technology.

However, RBC Capital Markets analyst Mike Abramsky said that yesterday's market reaction was ahead of itself and was valuing RIM mostly on its long-term prospects rather than what he called, "modest traction in the short term." He rated the stock as an outperform.

Still, the announcement caused the street to drive RIM's market capitalization to a peak of $69.2-billion, surpassing Royal Bank of Canada as the country's most valuable company for much of the afternoon. RIM's shares are the biggest success story on the TSX, increasing 138% so far this year and rising more than twentyfold over the past five years.

Any concerns over RIM entering the risky Chinese market, says Mr. Misek, should be calmed with its decision to partner with Alcatel-Lucent, which has strong roots in China.

"Alcatel-Lucent has been ... in China a lot longer than RIM has, for about the past 25 years," he said. "You have to have senior politburo contacts in order to do business in China in the scale that they're looking at."

Entering a major market such as China won't be a cakewalk for RIM, says Rob Enderle, president of the Enderle Group, a market research firm in San Jose, Calif. He says RIM will face daunting competition in a market saturated with a number of different mobile options, including the RedBerry, a homegrown BlackBerry knockoff.

Mr. Misek doesn't believe the cheaper device, made by China Unicom, will pose any challenge for RIM's 8700 model once the device hits the Chinese market.

"[RIM] has a network operations centre that effectively manages IP address, traffic, data, everything. Then you have compression and spectral technologies that RIM employs and an operating system on its devices that is remarkably thin and efficient," said Mr. Misek.

"There's so much more intellectual property than just a brand, which is why they're beating companies like Palm, Microsoft and Apple."

From GlobeInvestor.com

RIM Stock Chart - October 23, 2007
http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa262/AndrewEH/RIMStockChartOctober232007.jpg

S&P/TSX Composite Top 10 at the close October 23, 2007:
http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa262/AndrewEH/SPTSXCompositeTop10SortedbyMarke-4.jpg

Waterlooson

Oct 24, 2007, 2:43 PM

This morning BNN reported that RIM is now the biggest company in Canada (by market cap).

ScottFromCalgary

Oct 24, 2007, 3:26 PM

Waterlooson

Oct 24, 2007, 3:45 PM

*cough* Nortel *cough*

Just kidding guys I'm sure that won't happen to you.

Seriously though RIM has an outrageous P/E multiple and is wildly overpriced by just about any metric IMO.

In regards to the talk about RIM being the largest company in Canada, perhaps it narrowly beats RBC in market cap, but take a look at real money:

RIM Q2 Revenue: $1.37B
Net Income: $287.7M

Royal Bank Q2 Revenue: $5.48B
Net Income: $1.395B

Now why don't you compare the relative growth rates? :haha:

The problem with your flawed argument regarding the P/E multiple is that RIM was wildly overpriced a few years ago too... since then the stock price has gone up by 500%... good call Scott. ;)

The fact is... according to the market RIM is priced just right. P/E multiple by itself means very little... you also must consider the growth rate.:)

ScottFromCalgary

Oct 24, 2007, 4:38 PM

shreddog

Oct 24, 2007, 5:10 PM

Something that could have significantly more national relevance than who has the largest market cap - Nexen is making big ass profits in areas Encana deemed unprofitable at sub 50 dollar/barrel oil. If Eddie imposes to harsh a royalty increase, expect to hear more of this ....

Nexen profits as Buzzard lifts off
Globe and Mail Update
October 24, 2007 at 7:55 AM EDT
Oil and gas producer Nexen Inc.'s [NXY-T]third-quarter profit more than doubled from a year ago to $403-million or 75 cents a share, as production ramped up at its Buzzard oil field in the North Sea.
The profit for the three months ended Sept. 30 came in two cents ahead of analysts' consensus forecast and compared with $199-million or 37 cents a share a year earlier, the Calgary-based company said Wednesday. It noted that profit for the latest period included a $55-million after tax recovery on stock-based compensation.

Production climbed to the equivalent of 261,000 barrel s of oil a day from 203,000 a year earlier and net sales rose to nearly $1.45-billion from $997-million, Nexen said, while cash flow from operations rose to $868-million or $1.65 a share from $594-million or 77 cents.

The company attributed the growing production volumes to completed development projects in the North Sea, including Buzzard and Duart.
Nexen's third-quarter profit more than doubled as it ramped up production at its Buzzard gas play in the North Sea.

“A number of our development projects are now on stream, but these have taken us longer to complete than we expected,” Nexen chief executive officer Charlie Fischer said in a news release. “As we bring these development projects on stream, we are starting to achieve our target rates and our financial results are beginning to show the significant value of these projects.”

The soaring Canadian dollar took a toll on the Canadian company's numbers.
It said that although the average price of West Texas Intermediate crude rose to $75.38 a barrel from $70.48 a year ago, it was “unable to retain the full benefit of the price increase due to the weakening U.S. dollar.”

MolsonExport

Oct 24, 2007, 5:28 PM

Out of curiousity, do you perchance work for RIM?

Waterlooson

Oct 24, 2007, 7:57 PM

You misunderstand my argument. I'm not saying the market got it wrong or that RIM does not deserve a large P/E. Clearly they have high growth rates. All I'm saying is that the law of large numbers has to come into play at some point and growth will slow, just ask Microsoft. At that point the P/E will drop and unless RIM has earnings numbers somewhere in the ballpark of RBC then their market cap will be lower. Yes RIM will diversify into other products and blah, blah, blah growth will continue and the market will probably always give them a higher multiple than a bank. But they have a long way to go to reach RBC's earnings.

Tell that to Google, and tell that to Microsoft.... RIM has a market cap of $69 billion, Google's is $211 billion and Microsoft is at $292 billion... RIM has a long way to go before its market cap matches the big boys. Microsoft was worth much more back in 2000 than it is now. Until 2000, Microsoft's market cap. kept going up and up and others using the same argument that you are using were wrong year after year after year after year.... they were eventually right, but not until they lost out big time due to lost opportunity. Just like you can say day after day that it will rain in the desert, you will be right eventually... but not until your credibility is long gone.

The problem with momentum growth stocks like RIM is that eventually something happens that knocks down these precariously perched stocks. They break down real fast and as Kevin O'Leary says - "grown men will weep".

Sure, that has been the record in most cases... but that misses the real point, which is the question of WHEN! As long as the fundamental story stays the same... hold onto the stock.

The implication behind the posts from the Waterloo forumers is that RIM's success is KW's success, and that is somewhat true. I'm just saying that a company with a huge market cap and relatively low earnings doesn't have the same amount of positive economic effect on its community as a company with tons of real earnings and investment.

That's not true (at least not with Waterloo).... have you ever heard of the Perimeter Institute for Theoretical Physics?.... how about the Institute of Quantum Computing at the University of Waterloo.... how about the Centre for International Governance Innovation and Igloo? What about The Balsillie School of International Affairs? All are due to the presence of RIM in Waterloo. Manulife is the 5th largest insurance company in the world (with big earnings)..... its Canadian headoffice is in Waterloo where they employ thousands. Manulife's economic effect on Waterloo is small relative to RIM's... The city of Waterloo is being transformed because of the success and presence of RIM, not Manulife.

I would estimate the combined net worth of RIM's top two executives (residents of Waterloo) at around $7 billion.... what's the net worth of Calgary's top two executives just out of curiousity?

For example, according to the statement of cash flows in their most recently reported quarter:

Cash Used in Investing Activities (net of short term investments)
RIM: $ 105,830,000
Suncor: $1,322,000,000
Encana: $1,189,000,000

That doesn't necessarily mean a thing.... where is the money spent? New York or Toyko?

RIM's affect on Waterloo is MUCH larger that both Encana's and Suncor's affect (added together) on Calgary.... I mean just how many WORLD CLASS institutes have those companies started in Calgary?

ReginaGuy

Oct 24, 2007, 8:15 PM

well, it probably has more to do with the fact that Encana is somewhat of a "drop in the bucket" for Calgary. Waterloo is a much smaller city, so having one really successful business in town is going to make a much larger difference, proportionally

ReginaGuy

Oct 24, 2007, 8:17 PM

Out of curiousity, do you perchance work for RIM?

I've always wondered the same thing.. Either that or the chamber of commerce. His posts always seem to have an "advertisement" feel to them, the way he always includes pictures of company logos, etc

Claeren

Oct 24, 2007, 8:37 PM

Without going into the side debates in this thread, the one thing i will give RIM is that they seem to have world class management and that can go a long way....

Claeren.

Waterlooson

Oct 24, 2007, 8:41 PM

Without going into the side debates in this thread, the one thing i will give RIM is that they seem to have world class management and that can go a long way....

Claeren.

I'm not all that impressed with Jim Balsillie.... he's made too may mistakes IMO.... but Mike Lazaridis is a real genius for sure.

caltrane74

Oct 24, 2007, 8:57 PM

".

The implication behind the posts from the Waterloo forumers is that RIM's success is KW's success, and that is somewhat true. I'm just saying that a company with a huge market cap and relatively low earnings doesn't have the same amount of positive economic effect on its community as a company with tons of real earnings and investment. For example, according to the statement of cash flows in their most recently reported quarter:

Cash Used in Investing Activities (net of short term investments)
RIM: $ 105,830,000
Suncor: $1,322,000,000
Encana: $1,189,000,000

Let the Calgary/KW pissing match comence.

You can make the same implication for Suncor and Encana. The largest share of their Canadian investors are likely in Ontario. - Seeing how the majority of high net worth Canadains live in Ontario. Some things are relative.

I will give WaterlooInvestor this, RIM is changing the way all Canadian businesses will be viewed in the future. They are truely on the leading edge of technology in a way Nortel could never say it was.

BTW: Nortel still exist in Brampton and Ottawa ( they didn't disappear after their stockprice nosedived.)

Edit: Oh shit, I just forgot, Nortel sold their Brampton headquarters to Rogers a couple of years ago.

Claeren

Oct 24, 2007, 10:41 PM

I'm not all that impressed with Jim Balsillie.... he's made too may mistakes IMO.... but Mike Lazaridis is a real genius for sure.

Yeah, but that same aggressiveness is what makes it world class. The top guy(s) push and the rest of the executive team (when they are strong too) do everything they can to make it happen without over-extending themselves.

A weak and non-visionary top means the company plays it too safe, as is the case with many Canadian companies.

A weak secondary executive tier of 'yes-men' allows the top people to push too far, as is the case with many American companies that have been hollowed out this way.

Great companies have balance. I don't knwo for sure if that is RIM yet but i get that impression based on the moves they have been making.

I get the same impression from Richard Branson's Virgin Group, for example.

Claeren.

Waterlooson

Oct 24, 2007, 10:53 PM

Yeah, but that same aggressiveness is what makes it world class. The top guy(s) push and the rest of the executive team (when they are strong too) do everything they can to make it happen without over-extending themselves.

A weak and non-visionary top means the company plays it too safe, as is the case with many Canadian companies.

A weak secondary executive tier of 'yes-men' allows the top people to push too far, as is the case with many American companies that have been hollowed out this way.

Great companies have balance. I don't knwo for sure if that is RIM yet but i get that impression based on the moves they have been making.

I get the same impression from Richard Branson's Virgin Group, for example.

Claeren.

RIM could have settled the NTP lawsuit for $25 million US (according to NTP).... but Balsillie was asleep at the wheel and ignored NTP's concerns until they sued.... the result was that RIM ended up paying out $612.5 million to them instead (plus millions in legal fees).... that's poor management IMO.

By the way, just where does that "vast metropolis" aka Winnipeg fit into the Canadian business scene?

ScottFromCalgary

Oct 24, 2007, 10:56 PM

You can make the same implication for Suncor and Encana. The largest share of their Canadian investors are likely in Ontario. - Seeing how the majority of high net worth Canadains live in Ontario. Some things are relative.

Actually I was quoting Cash Used in Investing Activities, not dividends per share or share price appreciation. Suncor's investments are pretty much all in Alberta and Encana has most of their's here as well.

@Waterlooson: Yes I have heard of all of those facilities (only on this forum though - actually it seems like that's all I ever hear from the KW people), their is no doubt that RIM and its founders have been generous to Waterloo. Also, I really hope that RIM does become as large as Microsoft or Google some day, I just don't see it happening. Feel free to buy a whole swack of RIM stock, I just won't be joining you. I would consider having it as 1% of my portfolio at most.

Claeren

Oct 24, 2007, 10:58 PM

RIM could have settled the NTP lawsuit for $25 million US (according to NTP).... but Balsillie was asleep at the wheel and ignored NTP's concerns until they sued.... the result was that RIM ended up paying out $612.5 million to them instead (plus millions in legal fees).... that's poor management IMO.

Ignored? Or he thought that NTP were leaches and that he truly felt that he was in the right?

Just because the courts ruled one way does not mean that RIM did not have a case or that what NTP's does is right.

And the lowest figure i heard for a settlement was $450M, do you have a source for $25M?

Claeren.

Waterlooson

Oct 24, 2007, 11:22 PM

Ignored? Or he thought that NTP were leaches and that he truly felt that he was in the right?

Just because the courts ruled one way does not mean that RIM did not have a case or that what NTP's does is right.

And the lowest figure i heard for a settlement was $450M, do you have a source for $25M?

Claeren.

Yes, Balsillie "ignored" NTP while feeling that he was right up to the bitter end.... trouble was, the judge disagreed with Balsillie.

After the case was settled, a NTP principal stated that RIM could have settled the case (while still in the early stages of the dispute) for around $25 million.... RIM let the matter go to court and lost... then NTP wanted way more. RIM challenged NTP's patents and had them declared invalid, but it was too late because the judge wasn't bound by the patent rulings.

"When he and business partner Donald Stout contacted RIM in 2000 about obtaining a license for the NTP technology, however, they didn't get a response....
Stout told The Washington Post last year that RIM has had to spend more in legal fees -- $25 million to $50 million -- than it would have cost to license the company's technology."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/03/03/AR2006030301957.html

Claeren

Oct 25, 2007, 2:19 AM

Yes, Balsillie "ignored" NTP while feeling that he was right up to the bitter end.... trouble was, the judge disagreed with Balsillie.

"When he and business partner Donald Stout contacted RIM in 2000 about obtaining a license for the NTP technology, however, they didn't get a response....
Stout told The Washington Post last year that RIM has had to spend more in legal fees -- $25 million to $50 million -- than it would have cost to license the company's technology."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/03/03/AR2006030301957.html

I am thinking that if you were being held hostage by that type of company you would have resisted too. And 'licensing fees' are rarely a one time thing, it may have only been that much based on sales back then but i am thinking would have risen with handset sales or some such thing.

Just because an American judge sides with an American company over a patent that while legal was morally questionable does not mean Balsillie was wrong. It could mean the law was wrong, it could mean that there are companies out there that specialize in blackmailing major tech firms and sometimes those companies have to stand up for themselves even if they sometimes lose....

I don't think it means that much in the scheme of things and obviously a lot of shareholders agree with me.

Claeren.

raggedy13

Oct 25, 2007, 5:31 AM

It may not be a Canadian company, but it's good business news for Metro Vancouver at least...

The new home of microsoft in Canada
TECH SECTOR: 700 of the best jobs in the industry will soon be coming to Richmond

Gillian Shaw, Vancouver Sun
Published: Saturday, October 06, 2007

A Canadian software development centre wasn't even a gleam in the corporate eye of the giant Microsoft six months ago.

Today, thanks to a cap on working visas for the U.S., British Columbia's technology sector has been delivered a substantial boost with 700 Microsoft workers slated to move into a new centre in Richmond in the coming year and plans to expand after that.

The Microsoft jobs are in computer software development, requiring the specialized skills of designers and programmers that are in high demand around the globe.

The decision to set up shop in Richmond came when Microsoft ran headlong into a visa shortage.

"There's a cap in the U.S. for all companies, not just Microsoft," said Sharif Khan, vice-president of human resources for Microsoft Canada. "The government cap was hit in the first day of the release of the H-1B visas for the year.

"There were double the number of applications than there were visas."

The H-1B non-immigrant visa category lets U.S. employers hire highly skilled temporary workers for three years, with a provision to extend that another three years. The H-1B visa category requires a post-secondary degree and specialized expertise.

Last spring, the application opening lasted only a couple of days before the U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services had 133,000 applications for 65,000 openings. It stopped taking any more.

Microsoft was left wondering what to do with some great young talent it had recruited -- mostly university students who were studying in the States but were not Americans. Once they graduated, and their student visas expired, they'd have to go home taking their knowledge and talents with them.

"These people were in the pipeline to be hired for Microsoft and the cap issue was there so we had to look at an alternative solution," Khan said of the graduates who he described as 'top in their field.'

That's when Canada came in, laying out a welcome mat for international talent.

Microsoft could now hire the top help and move them to Canada -- it only needed a location. The Lower Mainland with its close proximity to corporate headquarters in Redmond, Wash., was a natural. Richmond, with an international airport, and a location two-and-a-half to three hours away from Redmond by car, won the sweepstakes.

Khan said it is taking only two weeks to get a working visa here. The new Microsoft employees are moving into the 6,700-square-metre development centre in Richmond as fast as the visas can be issued. There are 20 people in the new centre so far but soon they'll have lots of company.

"The visa officials have been so cooperative with us and they have really been very supportive in this whole process, basically expediting visas and stuff like that," said Khan. "We are getting people on board quickly.

"We are ready to ramp up; we expect another 50 next months and another 50 after that. We are working on two buildings and we could scale up from a few hundred to 700 hundred in the first 12 months."

Lois Reimer, spokesperson for Citizen and Immigration Canada, said while she can't comment specifically on the Microsoft visa applications, some software developing jobs are among the categories deemed to be suffering a skills shortage.

"If that's the case they would get work permits as long as they meet the requirements of entry into Canada," she said. "We don't have quotas."

Since 2002, B.C. has seen a 91- per-cent increase in foreign workers, compared to a 66-per-cent increase in the rest of Canada, said Reimer. In 2006, B.C. received 36,300 foreign workers, out of the 129,000 who came to Canada that year. For B.C. that was up from 26,500 in 2004.

"It is kind of an amazing opportunity for us to leverage," said Khan, who sees the U.S. visa cap as 'an interesting catalyst.' "If you think about it, six months ago we hadn't thought of doing a development centre in Vancouver.

"We were responding to all inquiries saying there were no plans to do so. It is all happening very quickly, it is amazing."

Amazing, too, for the folks at Richmond City Hall who were so thrilled their community was chosen that they hosted the incoming staff for their orientation day while the office renovation was still underway.

"Right from day one when Microsoft announced it was coming to the Lower Mainland we were aggressively going after them and telling them all the wonders of Richmond," said Ted Townsend, Richmond's senior manager of corporate communications. "There is the proximity to the airport, the border and to Redmond and also a lot of it was about the livability of the community and the fact we have a very healthy, active community here."

Along with the immediate jobs and economic impact, Microsoft's new centre located on Commerce Parkway not far from Sierra Wireless, adds to the critical mass of Richmond's tech sector.

"Those businesses create more business and foster more business," said Townsend. "We think it will not only foster new business creation in Richmond but also such a high-profile employer will give people another reason to take a closer look at Richmond and what we have to offer.

"It is something we were very excited about and we are pleased that they chose Richmond."

Microsoft's arrival has British Columbia's technology industry looking across the border for other potential visa-seeking employers.

"We have strategized as to what other companies we want to contact to make sure they are aware of the issue and how Microsoft has chosen to deal with it and to suggest they look at British Columbia as a destination," said Rob Cruickshank, president of the B.C. Technology Industries Association. "Of the big companies affected now, there has certainly been some strategizing done around targeting other large multinational tech companies -- Google, Yahoo and eBay all jump to mind."

eBay has already located here with a customer support centre in Burnaby.

The new Microsoft staff in Richmond will be part of virtual teams, working for bosses in Redmond or other global centres on projects in which they may collaborate with colleagues from all over the world.

"The people working there are developers, we are talking core development people," said Khan.

And they are discerning about their work surroundings.

"When they looked at the blueprints of the office, they put up a board and started evaluating how much light you get in different parts of the building," said Khan. "They are scientifically mapping out the areas of the office with the greatest degrees of light."

Along with its proximity to Redmond, Vancouver is an easy sell to potential employees as a place to live and work. Khan said the company has also advertised internally for positions at the new centre within Canada. Among the new people at the centre is a human resources specialist from Microsoft's Toronto office who is moving here for a new job.

Khan cites a study in which 82 per cent of Vancouverites said they would not move for a job of comparable pay, compared to 40 per cent of people in Toronto who would be prepared to move.

"I think as a company we need to get the best talent, we need to go to where they want to be, where they are and where they want to be," said Khan. "Where there is a great environment to live -- they are likely to be more creative and more productive at the end of the day."

The pioneering group at the new centre has already constructed a Microsoft sign out of Lego to mark their new quarters.

"There is an incredible amount of enthusiasm around the project," said Khan. "When people arrived, everything was pretty much ready -- computers, desks -- and all the screen savers had big Canadian flags on them.

"There is just a lot of pride around this."

The development centre in Richmond, Microsoft's first in Canada, joins others outside the Redmond headquarters, including ones located in North Carolina, Ireland, Denmark and Israel.

The company also has full research and development centres in the United Kingdom, India, China and the Silicon Valley. It's planning expansions in Boston, Mass., and Bellevue, Wash.

gshaw@png.canwest.com

© The Vancouver Sun 2007

Waterlooson

Oct 25, 2007, 5:40 AM

I don't think it means that much in the scheme of things and obviously a lot of shareholders agree with me.

Claeren.

Or it could mean that a lot of shareholders agree with me, and figure that Mike Lazaridis has enough brains for the two of them. :tup:

WaterlooInvestor

Oct 25, 2007, 10:18 AM

Out of curiousity, do you perchance work for RIM?

Nope, but as my name suggests I have an interest in both Waterloo and Investing. RIM is a major influence for both, hence my constant following.

I've always wondered the same thing.. Either that or the chamber of commerce. His posts always seem to have an "advertisement" feel to them, the way he always includes pictures of company logos, etc

Nope. It's called taking a minute to make my posts have a better presentation. It doesn't take long to change a title's size and colour, and to underline and bold it. It doesn't take long to hit the 'insert image' button, so when a news article includes a photo, it seems natural to include it.

WaterlooInvestor

Oct 25, 2007, 10:35 AM

Good articles shreddog and raggedy13. shreddog, obviously the overall oil sector is much more important to Canada, but RIM being the most valuable Canadian company is still a significant milestone. Someone should post an article on the Financial Services sector.

Here's the Toronto Stock Exchange Stats for the Month of September 2007. They were released October 4, 2007; but this thread didn't exist at the time so I'm posting them now: http://tsx.com/en/news_events/news_releases/10-4-2007_TSXGroup-TSXStatsSept2007.html

http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa262/AndrewEH/TSXStatistics-September2007-1.jpg
http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa262/AndrewEH/TSXStatistics-September2007-2.jpg

WaterlooInvestor

Oct 25, 2007, 12:02 PM

Let the Calgary/KW pissing match comence.

No need for a Calgary/KW fight. The Calgary oil sector and boom are both much larger than Waterloo's tech sector and boom. I can easily admit this. However, both cities are doing well and I think we can respect each other for our different business sectors. If Canada is to succeed and be a global leader, we need global companies in many different sectors.

Seriously though RIM has an outrageous P/E multiple and is wildly overpriced by just about any metric IMO.
In regards to the talk about RIM being the largest company in Canada, perhaps it narrowly beats RBC in market cap, but take a look at real money:
RIM Q2 Revenue: $1.37B
Net Income: $287.7M
Royal Bank Q2 Revenue: $5.48B
Net Income: $1.395B

As Waterlooson mentioned, it's all about the growth rate.

Period - Revenue (US$millions) - Net Income (US$millions) - Subscribers (in thousands)
2003 - 306 - (148) - 534
2004 - 594 - 47 - 1,069
2005 - 1,350 - 205 - 2,510
2006 - 2,065 - 374 - 4,900
2007 - 3,037 - 631 - 8,000

2Q2008 - 1,372 or *4 = 5,488 annualized - 287 or *4 = 1,148 annualized - 10,500

Expected 3Q2008 - 1,600to1,670 or 6,400 annualized - 339to362 or 1,356 annualized - 12,000

As you can see, there's been large increases over the past 5 years and the trend continues with a jump between Q2 and Q3 (which ends soon ~December 1st). It's likely RIM currently has 11.5 million subscribers as of October 25, 2007. "Subscriber account additions in the third quarter are expected to be approximately 1.65 million." Since this is a city discussion forum, let's relate this growth to cities. RIM is growing by a:

North Battleford every day.
Thunder Bay every week.
Waterloo Region every month.
Calgary every two months.
Inner Ring Golden Horseshoe (Toronto-Hamilton) every year.

So sure the stock is expensive with only 11.5million subscribers, but is it still expensive looking out two years from now with 25 million customers?

You misunderstand my argument. I'm not saying the market got it wrong or that RIM does not deserve a large P/E. Clearly they have high growth rates. All I'm saying is that the law of large numbers has to come into play at some point and growth will slow, just ask Microsoft. At that point the P/E will drop and unless RIM has earnings numbers somewhere in the ballpark of RBC then their market cap will be lower. Yes RIM will diversify into other products and blah, blah, blah growth will continue and the market will probably always give them a higher multiple than a bank. But they have a long way to go to reach RBC's earnings.

I hear and understand what you're saying, but also realize the market is pricing in expectations that RIM will eventually match (or come much closer) to RBC's earnings. The market is willing to look ahead a bit, and can see the potential only two years in the future when RIM's customer base will be double the current level.

The problem with momentum growth stocks like RIM is that eventually something happens that knocks down these precariously perched stocks. They break down real fast and as Kevin O'Leary says - "grown men will weep".

I watch SqueezePlay daily. Kevin wasn't on Wednesday, but he was there on Tuesday and mentioned how he'd been wrong on RIM. He went bearish on the stock back in 2005, but now admits his arguments back then didn't materialize.

The implication behind the posts from the Waterloo forumers is that RIM's success is KW's success, and that is somewhat true. I'm just saying that a company with a huge market cap and relatively low earnings doesn't have the same amount of positive economic effect on its community as a company with tons of real earnings and investment. For example, according to the statement of cash flows in their most recently reported quarter:
Cash Used in Investing Activities (net of short term investments)
RIM: $ 105,830,000
Suncor: $1,322,000,000
Encana: $1,189,000,000

Once again I hear what you're saying, but please realize that the RIM numbers are growing very rapidly. 100million one year can quickly become 200 million the next or 500million in a few years.

Still though, market cap can have a very positive effect on a community as well. For example, the 3 RIM billionaires (and other millionaires) have invested a few hundred million of their own money into research institutes, schools, and other causes throughout the community. They also employ ~5,000 people in Waterloo Region with 408 openings as of today. It wouldn't surprise me to see their employee count in Waterloo hit 10,000 over the next few years.

I would estimate the combined net worth of RIM's top two executives (residents of Waterloo) at around $7 billion

Even better, I'd estimate:

Lazaridis (Michael) @ $4.475 billion
Balsillie (James L) @ $4.258 billion

so combined $8.733 billion. There's also a 3rd RIM billionaire in Waterloo.

I will give WaterlooInvestor this, RIM is changing the way all Canadian businesses will be viewed in the future. They are truely on the leading edge of technology in a way Nortel could never say it was.

Awhile back on SSC, we were talking about Canada and a European mentioned Blackberry as one of our Canadian brands. If we want to be known as a nation of modern glass vibrant cities - being known as a country with technology helps. RIM is helping to boost Canada's image abroad.

@Waterlooson: Yes I have heard of all of those facilities (only on this forum though - actually it seems like that's all I ever hear from the KW people), their is no doubt that RIM and its founders have been generous to Waterloo. Also, I really hope that RIM does become as large as Microsoft or Google some day, I just don't see it happening. Feel free to buy a whole swack of RIM stock, I just won't be joining you. I would consider having it as 1% of my portfolio at most.

Honestly it does sound beyond belief that Waterloo could have a $200-300 billion market cap company.

That said, tech companies are only as good as their workforce. There are many years when Microsoft hires more grads from the University of Waterloo than anywhere else in the world. Obviously RIM has home-field advantage in recruiting Waterloo students. Lazaridis is also the chancellor of the university.

Heck, if tiny Finland can build a Nokia ($160-billion market cap), surely a G7 country like Canada can do the same.

WaterlooInvestor

Oct 25, 2007, 1:00 PM

CBC's actually reporting RIM ended up ahead on Wednesday, although I've seen other sites where it's a bit less (including the TSX site). Since the margin is still so close I'll wait to announce #1 for sure. Here's what the CBC said though: http://www.cbc.ca/money/story/2007/10/24/rim.html

"RIM's market capitalization — share price multiplied by the number of shares — reached $67.351 billion by the close of trading Wednesday. Royal Bank's market cap at the end of the day was close behind, at $67.343 billion, according to figures from CBCNews.ca's market data provider."

Although RIM's going to be much lower in the entire world (i have no clue on the exact rank), it does have a high ranking on the NASDAQ:

"RIM has also become the seventh most valued company on Nasdaq, behind Microsoft, Cisco, Apple, Google, Intel and Oracle."

Waterlooson

Oct 25, 2007, 3:17 PM

.... I'd estimate:

Lazaridis (Michael) @ $4.475 billion
Balsillie (James L) @ $4.258 billion

so combined $8.733 billion. There's also a 3rd RIM billionaire in Waterloo.

How so? What percentage of RIM do the top 3 own? Who is the 3rd billionaire? Fregin?

Waterlooson

Oct 25, 2007, 3:25 PM

... They also employ ~5,000 people in Waterloo Region with 408 openings as of today. It wouldn't surprise me to see their employee count in Waterloo hit 10,000 over the next few years.

.... those 408 openings in Waterloo (at RIM) doesn't include the 172 job openings for coop students, so the total is 580 openings @ RIM in Waterloo.:)

caltrane74

Oct 25, 2007, 7:54 PM

Edmonton tops for business
by Lawrence Herzog
Inside Edmonton | Vol. 25 No. 43 | October 25, 2007
Edmonton has been named the top metro area in Western Canada for business investment, based on the number of capital projects and expansions now underway in the region, according to Site Selection magazine. The Norcross, Georgia-based publication has also ranked Alberta as the most competitive province, ahead of Nova Scotia and Ontario.

Site Selection magazine, published by Conway Data Inc., delivers expansion planning information to 44,000 executives of fast-growing firms. The magazine’s inaugural set of Canadian rankings were based on project data collected between June 2006 and May 2007.

“Judging from the competitiveness we witnessed at every level, it’s no wonder that Canada as a whole earned our top spot among national-level investment promotion and business attraction efforts in rankings we published earlier this year,” says Site Selection’s managing editor Adam Bruns. “Energy resources and resourceful innovation are the ties that bind Canadian economic development, from the smallest of municipalities to the capitals of commerce.”

In the September 2007 issue, he wrote: “Imagine a territory nearly the size of Texas, with a similar mix of energy, agriculture and frontier culture but only one-eighth the population. That, in a nutshell, describes the economic juggernaut that is Alberta, our pick for Canada’s most competitive province.”

It’s lofty praise, indeed, and spread around the smiles at the Edmonton Economic Development Corp., (EEDC) which itself was also lauded for its contributions to the growth of Edmonton’s powerhouse economy. “We’ve known it for a long while, and now others are noticing, too,” says Ron Gilbertson, EEDC’s president and CEO.

“A hot economy, cost-competitiveness and support for research and innovation combine to make Edmonton an attractive location for businesses and careers to thrive,” Gilbertson says. “High-profile rankings from internationally distributed magazines like Site Selection help us share the Edmonton success story with potential business investors.”

As Bruns puts it: “It’s energy that energizes Edmonton, in the form of 10 oil sands upgrader projects being built between now and 2015 that will involve between C$40 billion and C$70 billion of investment and up to 4,000 workers per project at peak construction. Much of those projects’ spinoff economic impact will accrue to Edmonton.”

Alberta’s top ranking for the Canadian Competitiveness Award was based on the number of qualifying new facilities and expansions, projects per capita, project capital investment per capita, project job creation per capita and 100-plus-jobs projects per capita.

Just as the rankings were published, more than 40 business and government representatives travelled to the British Columbia coast to celebrate the opening of the $170-million container facility in Prince Rupert on September 12th. The port solidifies Edmonton’s emerging status as the North American hub for multi-modal transportation for trade to Asia-Pacific along this “corridor of opportunities” through Prince Rupert.

“Edmonton is not only the global port to the oil sands but also a natural gateway to the Asia-Pacific corridor,” Gilbertson observes. “This expanded deep-port facility will dramatically increase our region’s access and capacity to serve the lucrative Asian market.”

The Prince Rupert Port is ideally located on the closest land-sea link to Asia and offers sailing time 30 hours closer than other North American ports. For the industry, that means a tremendous cost savings. With the deepest harbour in North America, the new facility can accommodate the current generation of mega-sized container ships and offers high-capacity CN Rail connection to major Canadian and US markets.

The expansion comes as congestion worsens at North American Pacific ports. Over the next 20 years, global container traffic is forecast to more than double. The increasing volumes are already driving plans for a phase two development at the port that would quadruple its container traffic capacity in 2011.

Looking at the emerging opportunities is the goal of an Asia Pacific Shipping Forum conference November 13th through 15th at Edmonton’s Westin Hotel. The forum, hosted by EEDC and the Greater Edmonton Transportation and Logistics Cluster, will bring together shippers, transportation and logistics providers and government. They’ll gather to explore investment and partnerships opportunities with Asian shipping lines with the Port of Vancouver and Port of Prince Rupert.

For Alberta and its capital city, the opportunities are enormous, to be sure. However, as Site Selection magazine sagely observed, the province’s rapid pace of development isn’t necessarily beneficial, with corresponding strains on infrastructure, housing and water supplies, and shortages of skilled workers.

The entire Canada 2007 report, including an economic development directory, is available online at www.siteselection.com.
©Copyright 2000-2007, All Rights Reserved. All articles, text and photographic material presented here is copyright. Unauthorized copying or re-distribution is strictly prohibited.

from another thread.

feepa

Oct 25, 2007, 7:56 PM

This isn't the Canadian Business Thread, this is a waterloo / RIMM boosting thread. Please. Post this in the Ontario section under a proper title.

nasdaq

Oct 25, 2007, 8:31 PM

Potash 3Q Profit Rises 67 Percent :banana:
Thursday October 25, 3:24 pm ET
Potash 3rd-Qtr Profit Rises 67 Percent on Strong Demand in Developing World, Higher Prices

NEW YORK (AP) -- Potash Corp. of Saskatchewan Inc.'s profit rose 67 percent in the third quarter on strong demand for fertilizer in the developing world and higher pricing due to tight supplies, the Canadian fertilizer maker said Thursday.

Net income rose to $243.1 million, or 75 cents per share, from $145.2 million, or 46 cents per share, a year earlier. Sales climbed 36 percent to $1.3 billion from $954.5 million. The weakness of the U.S. dollar and a higher tax rate offset earnings by 7 cents per share and 10 cents per share, respectively.

Analysts polled by Thomson Financial expected earnings of 82 cents per share on revenue of $1.15 billion.

Potash Chief Executive Bill Doyle said tight global supplies, especially for potassium-based fertilizer called potash, helped lift product prices.

Though earnings fell short of expectations, Potash's "fundamentals (are) still strong," said RBC Capital Markets analyst Fai Lee in a note Thursday. Lee noted that had the effective tax rate been 30 percent -- as it was earlier in the year -- instead of 38 percent, the company would have posted earnings of 85 cents per share.

"Investors should not overreact to the lower-than-expected Q3/07 results and consider taking advantage of any potential declines in PotashCorp's share price," Lee wrote.

Potash shares gained $3.60, or 3.3 percent, to $112.83 in afternoon trading, after earlier hitting an all-time high of $116.77.

WaterlooInvestor

Oct 26, 2007, 12:39 PM

Flaherty tiptoes through the corporate tax cuts
Breaking News from The Globe and Mail
Neil Reynolds
Friday, October 26, 2007

OTTAWA — Let's assume that Finance Minister Jim Flaherty introduces corporate tax cuts in a mini-budget within the next couple of weeks. How deep a cut could he expect Liberal Leader Stéphane Dion to support? Would you believe 50 per cent?

Mr. Dion, in his speech earlier this month to the Economic Club of Toronto, championed a corporate rate well below the U.S. rate "to maintain competitiveness." The U.S. corporate rate is now 39 per cent, the Canadian rate 36 per cent. By inference, Mr. Dion argued, a Canadian advantage of three percentage points is not enough. How big an advantage would be enough? Mr. Dion did not say. Let's arbitrarily put it at six percentage points - producing a rate of 30 per cent - a modest rate cut of 15 per cent.

But the United States is getting ready to cut its own corporate tax rate, one of the highest in the world, to 25 per cent - a more ambitious rate cut of almost 40 per cent. Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson, Republican, has the strategic support of Congressman Charles Rangel, Democrat - a synchronized exhibition of bipartisan support. Mr. Rangel is chairman of the powerful, tax-writing House of Representatives ways and means committee. In exchange for the corporate rate cut, he would get higher tax rates on hedge funds, a fine villain for the Democrats in the 2008 presidential election year.

With the U.S. corporate rate at 25 per cent, however, Mr. Flaherty would need to cut Canada's corporate tax rate to 19 per cent to achieve the competitive advantage that Mr. Dion advocates. He would need to cut the corporate rate, in other words, by almost 50 per cent - which is precisely what he should do.

It won't happen, of course. Canada's corporate rate combines a federal rate (now 24 per cent) and a provincial rate (now, on average, 12 per cent). Were the federal government to cut its own rate by 50 per cent, it would cut the combined rate only by 33 per cent. To achieve a combined rate cut of 50 per cent, it would need to cut its own rate from 24 per cent to 6 per cent - a reduction of 75 per cent.

Corporations pay a bewildering array of provincial tax rates on profit, of course, ranging from 10 per cent in Alberta to 16 per cent in Prince Edward Island.

In his 2006 budget, Mr. Flaherty announced a series of tiny, incremental cuts that will reduce the federal rate from 24 per cent to 19 per cent by 2010. He subsequently announced a further tiny cut (to 18.5 per cent) in 2011. These cuts represent a 12-per-cent reduction in the federal rate but only an 8-per-cent reduction in the combined rate. They go in the right direction - but they go far too slowly. At this rate, it will take a decade or more to get a competitive rate, which by then (of course) will not have been remotely competitive for years.

With its 36-per-cent corporate rate, Canada has the fifth-highest rate in the world. But corporate rates are falling fast - everywhere. Mexico cut its rate this year to 29 per cent (down from 35 per cent in 2000). China will reduce its rate from 33 per cent to 25 per cent, effective Jan. 1, 2008 (although China negotiates much lower rates to attract specific enterprises). Within the 30 member nations of the Organization for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD), five cut corporate tax rates last year, seven cut them this year and eight will cut them at the beginning of 2008.

The OECD reductions are getting bigger - accompanied by increased urgency.

Famous for its high corporate taxes, Germany has now slashed its federal rate aggressively for a second time. Once the OECD leader in corporate taxes (with a rate of 52 per cent), Germany reduced its rate first to 39 per cent; in the new year this rate falls to 30 per cent. Some of the OECD rate cuts are truly Dionesque: Germany, 40 per cent; Turkey, 33 per cent; Iceland, 40 per cent; Ireland, 48 per cent.

We'll know soon what Mr. Flaherty meant when, in the Throne Speech, the government promised "long-term, broad-based tax relief." Long term is highly ambiguous. Long term, we are dead. The relevant adjectives that we need from Mr. Flaherty are "big" and "now" - if only to engage Mr. Dion's dare.

WaterlooInvestor

Oct 26, 2007, 12:42 PM

Alberta royalty grab stuns oil industry
Stelmach unveils new regime that will mean a potential windfall of $1.4-billion for the provincial treasury beginning in 2010
Breaking News from The Globe and Mail
DAVID EBNER AND KATHERINE O'NEILL
Friday, October 26, 2007

CALGARY AND EDMONTON — Alberta Premier Ed Stelmach infuriated the province's oil industry Thursday with surprisingly aggressive plans to take more money from the energy business, but the increases are less than a government-commissioned panel recommended last month.

The government said that under the new regime, money collected from the energy business could be 20 per cent higher in 2010 than forecast, potentially bringing an additional $1.4-billion to the treasury. That figure is nearly half a billion dollars less than the expert review panel wanted.

Starting in 2009, royalty rates will be increased across the board – for example, in the oil sands, rates will start rising when the price of oil is higher than $55 a barrel, with a new maximum of 40 per cent of a company's net revenue, up from a fixed rate of 25 per cent.

“As future generations look back at today, I believe they will see we were fair and reasonable, not greedy or short-sighted,” the rookie Premier said after the Progressive Conservative government released details of how it will redraw the royalty rules for oil, natural gas and oil sands in the debt-free province.

“I'm confident we've made the right decisions for today and for Alberta's future,” Mr. Stelmach said, on the same day as the price of oil climbed past $90 a barrel.

The issue has sparked a major political debate in Alberta in recent months, and is considered to be the watershed for the province and Mr. Stelmach's government.

The industry had threatened billions of dollars of capital spending cuts if increases were too high, saying thousands of jobs are on the line.

“You will see an impact. It's not going to be positive,” said Pierre Alvarez, president of the Canadian Association of Petroleum Producers.

George Gosbee, chairman of Tristone Capital Inc., said the industry will do some “aggressive lobbying” to fight the changes.

Non-industry players were upset, too.

Chris Severson-Baker of the Pembina Institute, a left-leaning research group, criticized Mr. Stelmach for stopping “far short” of the panel's recommendations.

“It's extremely disappointing. This is a status quo unless prices get very high,” he said.

Mr. Stelmach said his government's response isn't a compromise. “Please don't say it's a compromise,” he told reporters in Calgary.

The government plans to use the extra money to fund infrastructure projects and for savings. The plan is more aggressive than Mr. Stelmach hinted at on Wednesday.

The Premier spoke with Prime Minister Stephen Harper Thursday, trying to assure him that higher royalties would have a “minimal” impact on Ottawa, although he told reporters there would be “less revenue” for the federal government. Energy companies can deduct royalties from federal taxes, meaning higher rates in Alberta cut into money paid to Ottawa.

In the 1970s, when Alberta raised royalties, Ottawa struck back by disallowing royalties as deductions from corporate taxes, a double blow for industry. An estimate suggested Ottawa could lose several hundred million dollars annually.

The Premier played down rumours of a fall election yesterday. “I'm not doing this because I'm going to an election. I'm doing this because it's right for Albertans,” he said.

However, Keith Brownsey, a political scientist at Mount Royal College in Calgary, said it's possible that if the government's internal polling indicates the new royalty regime is embraced by voters, Mr. Stelmach may opt for a December election.

Since Mr. Stelmach became Premier last December, the Progressive Conservatives' 36-year-old dynasty has struggled, with popularity plummeting below 50 per cent amid widespread criticism the government hasn't dealt well with boom-related issues.

David Taras, a University of Calgary political analyst, said the government's new royalty rules are “muddled” and “confusing” to the point that most Albertans won't understand them and Mr. Stelmach might appear weak compared with Danny Williams, premier of Newfoundland.

“He's kind of like a Danny Williams on Valium. He's going ahead with all these changes, but they don't look very aggressive.

WaterlooInvestor

Oct 26, 2007, 12:57 PM

.... those 408 openings in Waterloo (at RIM) doesn't include the 172 job openings for coop students, so the total is 580 openings @ RIM in Waterloo.:)

:notacrook:

How so? What percentage of RIM do the top 3 own? Who is the 3rd billionaire? Fregin?

CNBC reports Lazaridis @ 37.2M shares (6.7%) and Balsillie 35.4M shares (6.3%). Do you have more up-to-date/accurate figures? Yes Douglas Fregin is the other RIM guy. Back in 2005 he held 2.7% (~15.1M current shares adjusted for the stock split) of the company's shares. That would put him around $1.736 billion at the October 25, 2007 close (RIM shares sold off yesterday - likely a bit of profit taking after this run-up). He's likely sold some shares in the last 2 years, but probably not enough that he's no longer be a billionaire. Here's a Canadian Business magazine article from 2005: http://www.canadianbusiness.com/after_hours/lifestyle_activities/article.jsp?content=20051205_72913_72913

Waterlooson

Oct 27, 2007, 4:58 AM

That's interesting... thanks. I don't have more up-to-date info.

SteelTown

Oct 27, 2007, 3:02 PM

Applause for Stelco takeover

The Canadian Press
TORONTO

After years of financial problems and restructuring, Hamilton-based Stelco Inc. moved closer to the end of its life as an independent Canadian company with little pomp other than a round of applause yesterday as shareholders formally approved a takeover by Pittsburgh-based U.S. Steel.

At the big steelmaker's last meeting, 88 per cent of shares were voted, with virtually all in favour of the $1.1-billion US deal.

The five-minute meeting in Toronto didn't include any questions. "U.S. Steel is the right company to come in and provide a lot of security for the people (at Stelco)," CEO Rodney Mott said after the meeting.

He said he wasn't aware of any "concrete" plans for Stelco once it's merged into U.S. Steel, but expected the new owners would focus on the $100 million US in possible synergy savings previously discussed.

"They'll probably want to take a bit more time to evaluate the facilities and really work on their strategic plan before they announce anything," he said. But, he added, he expects the new owner to continue running Stelco's two Ontario plants "to get the highest level of productivity they can."

"There's two main things that they like about Stelco -- obviously the Lake Erie plant is a very fine operation -- but they're also looking within U.S. Steel (because) they need additional steelmaking, and the additional steel-making is available out of Hamilton."

Stelco had sought potential bidders since emerging from bankruptcy restructuring nearly two years ago, cutting costs, reducing debt and improving its efficiency to make itself more attractive to potential bidders.

In its last earnings report as a Canadian-owned company Wednesday, Stelco reported a net profit of $38 million or $1.26 per share in the third quarter, reversing a loss of $25 million or 93 cents a share for the same period a year ago.

The gains were due in part to $5 million in savings from job cuts and other streamlining and foreign-exchange increases of $36 million.

401_King

Nov 9, 2007, 12:25 AM

thoguht i'd add some stuff to this thread that was discussed in another

Market Caps today:

RBC 71 billion USD
TD 52 Billion USD

Citigroup 166 Billion USD
Goldman Sachs 85 billion USD
Morgan Stanley 54 billion USD
Merrill 46 billion usd
Lehman 30 Billion USD

big W

Nov 9, 2007, 10:18 PM

Hey RBC go and buy a US bank already. expand your business now that they are low and your stock price and currency is high. Canadian Insurance companies do the same.

shreddog

Nov 10, 2007, 5:54 AM

CBC's actually reporting RIM ended up ahead on Wednesday
Well, was that a short run at the top or just a breather?
===============

RIM shares again drop on heavy trading
Canadian Press

November 9, 2007 at 4:53 PM EST

Shares of BlackBerry maker Research In Motion Ltd. fell again Friday, the second straight day of big declines that have lopped about 15 per cent off the value of Canada's most valuable technology company.

RIM stock dropped $10.34 a share to close at $106.76, a one-day decline of nearly 9 per cent, in heavy trading of more than three million shares on the Toronto Stock Exchange. On Thursday, the company dropped $6.42 per cent to $117.10, a decline of 5 per cent.

In total, it has fallen nearly $20 from an all-time high of $126.34 set in intraday trading on Wednesday. (Hmm, didn't Nortel reach its all time high at $126 ??)

RIM's stock has now given up all of the gains since Oct. 4, when the Waterloo, Ont.-based company issued its latest financial report and issued a bullish outlook on its growth prospects for its current quarter.

One reason for RIM's stock decline is that investors are worried that the e-mail device maker could be hurt by a decline in orders from the U.S. banking sector, which has been squeezed by big losses linked to the subprime housing market.

Another underlying factor is that some investors are cashing in on the huge runup in RIM's shares in recent weeks since the company issued its second-quarter financial results and third-quarter outlook.

Earlier this week, network gear maker Cisco Systems Inc. revealed in its quarterly financial report that it had seen a dramatic drop in orders from U.S. banks.

Nearly 15 per cent of RIM's subscriber base is from the financial services sector and investors appear worried the same decline could hit the company.

Government represents 20 per cent of RIM's business and consumers another 30 per cent.

Meanwhile, the BlackBerry, one of the world's most popular e-mail devices, is facing ever-more rival wireless devices with keyboards suited to heavy messaging.

RIM sued LG Electronics Inc. this week, claiming the South Korean company's Black Label, Strawberry and Black Cherry mobile phones are sold under a name similar to the BlackBerry.

=============

As of close Friday, RBC had a mkt cap of $64.5B, whereas RIM is at $59.6B. Better be careful RIM, ECA is sneaking up behind you at $51B!

b13

Nov 10, 2007, 8:39 PM

just wondering what company is ECA?

401_King

Nov 10, 2007, 8:59 PM

^ Encana

Waterlooson

Nov 11, 2007, 3:24 AM

Well, was that a short run at the top or just a breather?
===============

RIM shares again drop on heavy trading
Canadian Press

November 9, 2007 at 4:53 PM EST

Shares of BlackBerry maker Research In Motion Ltd. fell again Friday, the second straight day of big declines that have lopped about 15 per cent off the value of Canada's most valuable technology company.

Just like Google, Apple and many other tech companies that have "corrected" over the last few days.... it's nothing unique to RIM. :(

shreddog

Nov 12, 2007, 8:01 PM

Commodities boom feeds tax bonanza

Top 50 companies listed on S&P/TSX index pay more despite lower rates

In 1996, the list of Canada's biggest corporate taxpayers was dominated by big banks and phone company BCE Inc. Ten years later, natural resource companies have pushed onto the top of the tax charts, thanks to soaring profits from a long commodities boom.

A Globe and Mail review of the country's 50 largest publicly traded companies shows a significant change in the makeup of the companies paying the most income tax over the past decade, with BCE falling to 40th spot in 2006 from first place in 1996, while energy companies Petro-Canada and EnCana Corp. have become the country's top taxpayers.

The review also found Canada's 50 largest companies are paying dramatically more tax than they were a decade ago: a total of $24.8-billion in 2006, more than double the $10.7-billion tax bill paid by the 50 largest companies in 1996.

Rest of the article here (http://www.globeinvestor.com/servlet/story/GAM.20071112.RTAX12/GIStory)

Top Ten corporate tax payers:

Petro-Canada 2,384
EnCana Corp. 2,205
Royal Bank of Canada 1,403
Manulife Financial Corp. 1,366
Talisman Energy Inc. 1,304
Teck Cominco Ltd. 1,215
Imperial Oil Ltd. 1,056
Power Corp. 940
Power Financial Corp. 937
Toronto-Dominion Bank 874

In a nutshell, the top 10 corporate taxpayers paid $13.7B in taxes for 2006. Of that, 51% came from Calgary based companies ($6.9B), 26.7% came from Toronto based companies ($3.6B), 13.7 and 8.9% respectfully from Montreal and Vancouver based outfits.

When you look at the top 50 corporate taxpayers, Calgary based companies contributed just over 40% of the $24.8B in taxes collected.

While I don’t have the details for the full list of corporate tax payers for 2000, even if there was no other Calgary based company than those in the top 50, over 33% of all corporate taxes are collected from Calgary based companies.

vid

Nov 12, 2007, 9:00 PM

Thunder Bay biotech firm goes global
Northern Ontario Business | Nick Stewart (http://www.nob.on.ca/regionalReports/ThunderBay/11-07-biotech.asp)

Nearly five years after its inception, Thunder Bay-based Genesis Genomics has formed a partnership with a worldwide leader in skin care to bring the company’s first product to market.

Through an agreement with Toronto-based VitalScience Corp., the company will find its unique technologies used to develop dermaglow DNA, a kit designed to test for acute and chronic damage the sun’s ultraviolet rays do to one’s skin.

“These are interesting times for us, as we’re going to be wholly unique on the market,” Robert Poulter, president of Genesis Genomics, says.

“There’s literally no competition for what we’re offering, so we’ve got some pretty high hopes for this.”

Through the agreement, VitalScience will build, market and sell the kits through Canadian dermatologists and pharmacies as part of its established dermaglow line in early 2008. This will grow to more than 40 countries worldwide by 2009.

VitalScience currently has the top-selling skin care product in Canada and is specifically known for their anti-aging Nuvectin. It consistently sells in the top 10 in other countries including France, Scandinavia and Greece.

This strong global presence and history of success helped to draw Genesis Genomics to the table, allowing the company to leverage VitalScience’s pre-existing retail channels and relationships. As a result, the product will find widespread distribution and sales that may have otherwise taken countless years and dollars to realize, Poulter says.

This is especially true as VitalScience expects to further expand its reach to seven different countries in the Middle East in the coming months.

Two types of kits are expected to be offered; a non-invasive product that will find consumers using a cotton swab on their skin to collect a sample. The other kit is “mildly invasive.” A small needle will extract a skin sample that is then inserted into a vial and sent to a laboratory. Although details are still being determined and further agreements still being developed, Poulter says the laboratory in question is likely to be one already located in Northern Ontario.

While Poulter is insistent on pointing out the kit does not predict skin cancer, he says various levels of DNA damage can act as precursors to the affliction. Helping consumers to be informed about the extent of the damage can allow them to make informed decisions about how to further pursue other product purchases. This is particularly crucial at a time where concern about skin cancer is on the rise, and sunscreen lotions fail to completely block ultraviolet rays.

Genesis Genomics currently has several other products in various stages of market readiness. These include DNA Care, which helps sun care manufacturers measure their product against DNA damage, and a product called biopsy+, a confirmatory test for prostate cancer. Discussions are ongoing to hammer out agreements with large global companies for these particular products, while three other unidentified projects are currently winding their way through the research pipeline.

In fact, as a response to its recent agreement and in anticipation of future growth, the company will be expanding in the coming months.

In November, two employees will be added to its current staff of 16 and additional employees will be hired through 2008.

This wide-ranging agreement not only allows the company to make its official entrance onto the consumer market, but also validates its years of effort and research, Poulter says.

“It starts to allow us as a company to shift from just being research to generating commercial viability and generating a revenue stream that allows us to grow and broaden our investments into new research.”

The head of VitalScience also touts the benefits of the agreement, as Genesis Genomics’ cutting-edge technology will also allow them to further grow their market and capitalize on a growing global trend towards “cosmoceutical” products. What’s more, the patent protection Genesis Genomics has sought for its technologies made it that much more attractive in an industry occasionally prone to piracy.

“They’ve got some good technologies with regards to DNA, and we’ve got the product structure, so it really is a match made in heaven,” Calvin Davies, president and co-founder of VitalScience, says.

www.genesisgenomics.com
www.vitalsciencecorp.com

shreddog

Nov 13, 2007, 5:24 AM

Just like Google, Apple and many other tech companies that have "corrected" over the last few days.... it's nothing unique to RIM. :(
So are you also saying that RIM's rise over the past 6 months was simply due to the fact that it was in the high tech sector and appreciated just like Google, Apple and the like?

Basically that there is nothing unique to RIM? ;)

shreddog

Nov 13, 2007, 5:28 AM

Waterlooson

Nov 13, 2007, 6:04 AM

So are you also saying that RIM's rise over the past 6 months was simply due to the fact that it was in the high tech sector and appreciated just like Google, Apple and the like?

Basically that there is nothing unique to RIM? ;)

No; I'm saying that we are seeing sector rotation. ;)

Cambridgite

Nov 13, 2007, 1:30 PM

So are you also saying that RIM's rise over the past 6 months was simply due to the fact that it was in the high tech sector and appreciated just like Google, Apple and the like?

Basically that there is nothing unique to RIM? ;)

:yes:

RIM is only as immune from competition as any other tech company. Every leader is bound to have imitators. They CAN come out ahead, but nothing guarantees it.

vid

Nov 13, 2007, 3:50 PM

Booyaa!

I can see the forest of towers rising alread!!:banana:

Seriously, I can't picture 290 Munro - which building is that?

The cancer centre at PAGH. They renovated it and have their offices there. PAGH is vacant right now, the main floors are boarded up. There was another biotech company (From Asia I think) that was looking at it, but the cost of retrofitting the building so that it would be suitable for their needs ran into the tens of millions, so they pulled out. I think it's heritage protected, so it can't be demolished, and considering how it was built, it can't really be renovated either, so it's pretty much doomed to demolition by neglect.

A shame really, the top floor on the west wing (nursery area) has a great view of the city. My grandmothers nursing station was on the floor below.

WaterlooInvestor

Nov 30, 2007, 7:24 PM

Who are Canada's richest Canadians? (Hint: more than half of them are billionaires)
Canadian Business magazine's 9th-annual Rich 100 list arrives on newsstands starting today.

TORONTO, Nov. 29 /CNW/ - This year's Rich 100, Canadian Business
magazine's exclusive annual ranking of the wealthiest Canadians, is populated
by a bumper crop of billionaires. For the first time ever, more than half of
the list is made up of people who have hit the 10-digit mark; 54 of them, in
fact, up from 46 in last year's ranking.
There has also been a sea change near the top of the list. For the first
time since 2000, Galen Weston does not hold the No. 2 spot. That honour now
goes to Ted Rogers, whose estimated net worth is up 67% over last year.
Canadian Business magazine also welcomes two new members: mining investor Rob
McEwen, and Dennis (Chip) Wilson of yoga apparel firm Lululemon Athletica.
Additionally, while this year saw the return of home builders the Libfeld
family, who last made an appearance on the Rich 100 in 2005, it is also the
year to say goodbye to three members of last year's list whose net worth
didn't reach the minimum of $445 million: Chuck Fipke, Louise Blouin MacBain
and Lawrence Stroll.

<<
The Rich 100 Top Ten:

1. Thomson Family
$25.35 billion, up 4%
Location: Toronto
'06 rank: 1

2. Edward (Ted) Rogers Jr., 74
$7.6 billion, up 67%
Location: Toronto
'06 rank: 4

3. Galen Weston, 67
$7.27 billion, up 2%
Location: Toronto
'06 rank: 2

4. Paul Desmarais Sr., 80
$5.64 billion, up 28%
Location: Montreal
'06 rank: 5

5. James (J. K.), Arthur, John (Jack) Irving, 78, 76, 75
$5.3 billion, down 3%
Location: Saint John, N.B.
'06 rank: 3

6. James (Jimmy) Pattison, 79
$4.52 billion, up 4%
Location: Vancouver
'06 rank: 6

7. Jeff Skoll, 42
$4.48 billion, up 14%
Location: Palo Alto, Calif.
'06 rank: 7

8. Michael Lazaridis, 46
$4.36 billion, up 157%
Location: Waterloo, Ont.
'06 rank: 24

9. James Balsillie, 46
$4.09 billion up 153%
Location: Waterloo, Ont.
'06 rank: 25

10. Bernard (Barry) Sherman, 65
$3.61 billion, up 12%
Location: Toronto
'06 rank: 8

For profiles of our highest ranked families, visit
www.canadianbusiness.com/rich100.

WaterlooInvestor

Nov 30, 2007, 7:25 PM

The view from Waterloo Region:

RIM chiefs among richest Canadians
November 30, 2007
CHUCK HOWITT - RECORD STAFF - WATERLOO

http://news.therecord.com/images/assets/366564_3.JPG
Jim Balsillie

http://news.therecord.com/images/assets/366565_3.JPG
Mike Lazaridis

Research In Motion's dynamic duo has broken into the top 10 list of the richest Canadians.

Mike Lazaridis and Jim Balsillie, co-chief executive officers of the booming Waterloo-based wireless communications company, are ranked eighth and ninth respectively in the annual Rich 100 list compiled by Canadian Business magazine.

Last year, Lazaridis was ranked 24th while Balsillie was right behind him at 25th.

Lazaridis, 46, has a net worth of $4.36 billion, based on the magazine's analysis of proxy statements, insider-trading reports and other sources.

Balsillie, 46, is worth $4.09 billion, the magazine said.

Rankings were based on the value of assets held as of Oct. 12.

A former RIM executive also made the rarefied Rich 100 list.

Douglas Fregin, who co-founded the Waterloo company with Lazaridis in 1984, was ranked 27th with a net worth of $1.72 billion. Fregin, who retired from the company earlier this year, was ranked 70th last year.

The three RIM executives were the only area members of the Rich 100 club.

The net worth of the three RIM execs has had a major impact in the local community, with the trio donating tens of millions of dollars to the Perimeter Institute for Theoretical Physics, the Balsillie School for International Relations, the Centre for International Governance Innovation, the Waterloo Regional Children's Museum and Waterloo Region's hospitals.

A University of Waterloo graduate now living in California also is part of the Rich 100. David Cheriton, who graduated from UW in 1978 and now lives in Palo Alto, is ranked 25th with a net worth of $1.91 billion. Cheriton made his fortune investing in Google stock and donated $25 million in 2005 to the computer science school at UW.

Topping the list of most affluent Canadians by a wide margin is the Thomson family, owners of the media and electronic data empire. The family's net worth is estimated at $25.35 billion.

This year's list included "a bumper crop of billionaires," according to the magazine.

Fifty-four hit at least the 10-digit mark, compared to 46 last year.

The three RIM members of the club also shared one other distinction.

Like a hit record, they shot up the money charts after scoring the biggest gains in net worth of anybody on the list.

Fregin led the way at 164 per cent, followed by Lazaridis at 157 per cent and Balsillie at 153 per cent.

The next biggest gain was scored by cable tycoon Ted Rogers, whose net worth rose 67 per cent to $7.6 billion, vaulting him from fourth to second on the list.

The RIM trio were able to make such big strides in personal wealth largely because of the performance of RIM's stock which rose 163 per cent last year, including a three-for-one stock split, Canadian Business said.

Last year, the company was battling for survival in a protracted patent suit. But with the suit resolved, "investors released the stock's pent-up value, and RIM joined Google, Apple and Microsoft in a post-dot-com-bubble revival that has seen all perform well this year," the magazine said.

Next year could be just as lucrative for RIM's bosses.

With sales of the BlackBerry suffering no ill effects from the launch of Apple's iPhone and a recent deal that will see the popular handheld device distributed in China, Lazaridis and Balsillie could move up even further on the Rich 100 list, the magazine noted.

RICH 100 TOP TEN
1. Thomson family (media, electronic data), $25.35 billion
2. Edward (Ted) Rogers Jr. (media), $7.6 billion
3. Galen Weston (food products, supermarkets), $7.27 billion
4. Paul Desmarais Sr. (media, utilities, pulp and paper, financial services), $5.64 billion
5. James, Arthur and John Irving, (forestry, retail, trucking, energy, media), $5.3 billion
6. James Pattison, (transportation, communications, food products, packaging), $4.52 billion
7. Jeff Skoll, (first president of eBay, film producer), $4.48 billion
8. Michael Lazaridis, (wireless communications), $4.36 billion
9. James Balsillie, (wireless communications), $4.09 billion
10. Bernard (Barry) Sherman (pharmaceuticals), $3.61 billion.

Waterlooson

Nov 30, 2007, 8:00 PM

Hey, I don't see a single resident from Winnipeg or London on that list... what's going on? ;)

ScottFromCalgary

Nov 30, 2007, 8:49 PM

Wait, hold on a sec. There's a big tech company in Waterloo? And the guys who started it are billionaires? Why didn't someone from Waterloo post anything about this before?

1ajs

Nov 30, 2007, 11:27 PM

they probly did not know

Waterlooson

Nov 30, 2007, 11:37 PM

Wait, hold on a sec. There's a big tech company in Waterloo? And the guys who started it are billionaires? Why didn't someone from Waterloo post anything about this before?

Maybe it's because certain posters from Calgary might have been envious that not a single Albertan cracked the top ten while little Waterloo (not to mention the entire Golden Horseshoe for 6 out of the top 10) had 2 after telling us over the last few years about how Alberta is much more prosperous than the rest of the country. :jester:

vid

Nov 30, 2007, 11:42 PM

I think he's trying to say that WaterlooInvestor's boosterism is getting annoying.

Seriously, if this was 19th century Fort William, he would be John McKellar!! :haha:

Waterlooson

Nov 30, 2007, 11:43 PM

I think he's trying to say that WaterlooInvestor's boosterism is getting annoying.

Yes, I know... I was just teasing him right back... :sly:

WaterlooInvestor is a booster? Since when? ;)

vid

Dec 1, 2007, 12:03 AM

Since the start of the silver boom of '88, that's when!

1888!!

Waterlooson

Dec 1, 2007, 1:08 AM

Since the start of the silver boom of '88, that's when!

1888!!

I didn't know that Waterloo was a mining centre... it was mostly a booze centre during prohibition... as in Seagram's... later came Carling... then Labatts... now they have Brick Brewing.... we can all drink to that. :cheers:

vid

Dec 1, 2007, 1:12 AM

No, that was supposed to be another joke relating to Thunder Bay. :P

We had the most millionaires per capita in the late 1800s or early 1900s, for a short while. Then they realized it was just a greedy Torontonian playing a mean trick on them, and they left. For some reason, my grandparents stayed. :shrug:

WaterlooInvestor

Dec 1, 2007, 8:02 AM

I think he's trying to say that WaterlooInvestor's boosterism is getting annoying.
Seriously, if this was 19th century Fort William, he would be John McKellar!! :haha:

On the CBC's website, I can find a link to the news topic I posted: http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/wealth/ . Whether you like the topic or not, the Rich 100 is national news.

For some reason, I can't seem to find any CBC links to the Genesis Genomics partnership. :shrug: It looks like you're the one on here boosting local news as though it was a national news event. :haha:

Waterlooson

Dec 1, 2007, 4:08 PM

^ Lmao. :)

Greco Roman

Dec 1, 2007, 5:21 PM

Hey, I don't see a single resident from Winnipeg or London on that list... what's going on? ;)

And your point being....................................

Cambridgite

Dec 1, 2007, 5:57 PM

And your point being....................................

Read through Waterlooson's post history and you'd know. :haha:

WaterlooInvestor

Dec 11, 2007, 8:11 AM

Toronto, Montreal exchanges announce $1.3B merger
Last Updated: Monday, December 10, 2007 | 7:59 AM ET
CBC News
http://www.cbc.ca/money/story/2007/12/10/stock-exchange.html

The Montreal and Toronto exchanges announced a $1.3-billion merger on Monday that will see the country's two largest exchanges become one.

The new organization — to be known as TMX Group — will be managed from Toronto, but the trading of financial derivatives products will stay in Montreal.

In the stock and cash deal, Montreal Exchange shareholders would receive half a share of TSX Group and $13.95 in cash for each of their shares.

That values each share of the Montreal Exchange at $42.56, based on Friday's closing price for TSX shares.

On Monday, shares of the Montreal Exchange rose more than eight per cent to close at $40.18. TSX Group shares declined more than five per cent to $53.88.

"The combination is an important milestone in the development of the Canadian capital markets, delivering benefits to all market participants and the shareholders of both organizations," TSX Group CEO Richard Nesbitt said in a release.

"We believe that an integrated national exchange is the optimal solution to meet the evolving requirements of our broader customer base," he said.

The Montreal Exchange's board of directors is recommending that its shareholders vote in favour of the combination.

Under terms of a non-compete deal reached in 1999, the Montreal Exchange became Canada's only market for trading in financial derivatives, while the Toronto-based TSX Group consolidated the country's equity trading boards. That deal was to expire in 2009.

"I am enthusiastic about the future of the derivatives markets that Montreal Exchange has been building for many years," Montreal Exchange president Luc Bertrand said. "Through this agreement, Montreal will remain the centre of Canada's derivatives markets."

The merger had been rumoured for several months.

Negotiations are reported to have been rocky. When Bertrand's name was first put forward for president of the new exchange earlier this year, the TSX Group was uncomfortable and merger talks fell apart as a result, the CBC's Amanda Margison reported.

Residency requirement

Merger talks resumed last month.

Under the new agreement, Nesbitt will be the CEO of the TMX Group and Bertrand will be be deputy CEO. Bertrand will continue as the chief executive officer of the MX and will also assume responsibility for information technology of the TMX Group.

The agreement also requires that 25 per cent of TMX directors be residents of Quebec.

The merger deal is expected to close in the first quarter of 2008.

Stock exchanges around the world have been consolidating rapidly as a way of cutting costs amid growing competition from alternative exchanges.

WaterlooInvestor

Dec 21, 2007, 1:03 PM

You guys do realize there are lots of other Canadian Business news stories going on right? For example, I'm surprised the Saskatoon forumers aren't posting about Potash Corp which has been having a nice run.

That said, RIM's latest #'s again made worldwide news (CNN, Wall Street Journal, etc..) and even affected European share prices (http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/us-results-boost-technology-sector/story.aspx?guid=%7B66CD1FBC%2D7D26%2D482E%2DADFB%2D5ED70E49B25E%7D&siteid=yhoof)

From the Globe and Mail: http://globeinvestor.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20071220.wrim1220/GIStory/

The company's enterprise division also performed well, signing up its single largest government client to date when the FBI agreed to outfit 18,000 of its agents and analysts with BlackBerry devices.

IMO, It's kinda cool the FBI will now be using Canadian Technology. :cool:

Research In Motion: What Slowdown?
Analysts figured cuts in corporate tech spending would hurt the BlackBerry maker's earnings. But smart marketing to consumers has paid off
by Arik Hesseldahl, a reporter for BusinessWeek.com.
http://www.businessweek.com/technology/content/dec2007/tc20071220_523525.htm?chan=top+news_top+news+index_businessweek+exclusives

If there's supposed to be a big slowdown in corporate IT spending, then someone forgot to tell Research In Motion (RIMM). The Canadian maker of the wildly popular BlackBerry wireless device reported sales that doubled over the year-ago quarter and profits that grew even better over the same period.

But then corporate spending was really only part of the story for RIM, which has over the year made a concerted push into consumer markets with new, sleeker devices, adding cameras and music-playing features it had long eschewed.

Profits Soar
Clearly RIM's new image—less suit, more T-shirt—is paying off. Sales for the quarter were $1.67 billion, a 100% improvement over the $835 million reported a year ago, and a 22% boost from $1.37 billion in sales during the prior quarter. Profits came in at $370.5 million, or 65¢ per share, 111% better than in the year-ago quarter, and a 28% improvement sequentially.

RIM's powerful results delivered a strong counterpoint to the conventional wisdom that tech spending by large corporations, the company's bread-and-butter customer base, is heading into a slowing period. The ongoing credit crunch, which has pummeled the financial community and resulted in restructuring and layoffs at banks and other institutions, would appear to drive right to the heart of that base. Investment bankers and financial executives are big BlackBerry addicts, and in most cases their devices are paid for by employers.

Yet the company appears to have suffered no ill effects whatsoever. RIM added a net 1.65 million subscribers, and shipped 3.9 million units, finishing the quarter with 12 million Blackberry users. Nearly half of the new subscribers were either consumers or small business accounts, RIM co-Chief Executive Jim Balsillie told analysts.

The numbers beat analysts' expectations; many of them had predicted revenue of $1.65 billion, per-share earnings of 62¢, and 1.7 million net subscriber additions. "Sales and earnings were much better than we expected, but I think they may have been a little conservative on the forecast," says James Faucette, analyst with Pacific Crest Securities in Portland, Ore.

RIM's forecast for the current quarter, its fiscal fourth, looked even stronger. RIM projects sales will come in between $1.8 billion and $1.87 billion, with earnings per share coming in at 66¢ to 70¢. The company also said it will add another 1.82 million subscribers. RIM shares, having finished the regular trading session on Dec. 20 up more than 4%, to $106.99, soared in after-hours action by more than $10 a share, to $117.63.

Pricing Strategy Aims at New Users
"They were obviously helped by AT&T (T) keeping their price on the BlackBerry Curve device at $99," says Tavis McCourt, an analyst at Morgan Keegan.

During a conference call with analysts, Balsillie noted that the BlackBerry has crossed the line from being a product aimed mainly at business users to one aimed also at mainstream consumers. In addition to new consumer-friendly devices, carriers pushed their subscription plans downward to attract entry-level users.

Balsillie told analysts that on Black Friday, the day after the Thanksgiving holiday in the U.S., the company hit a record for the highest number of new subscribers in a single day. Black Friday, he said, has historically tended to be an "unusually slow day" for subscriber additions. Sales were led heavily by the newest Pearl smartphone, a smaller version of the popular BlackBerry device, with carriers such as Verizon Wireless, a joint venture of Verizon (VZ) and Vodafone (VOD); T-Mobile, a unit of Deutsche Telekom (DT); and Sprint Nextel (S).

MolsonExport

Dec 21, 2007, 2:24 PM

Damn, finally some updates about RIM.

Cambridgite

Dec 21, 2007, 5:28 PM

Damn, finally some updates about RIM.

:haha:

caltrane74

Dec 21, 2007, 5:31 PM

RIM stock is going through the roof.

I think we should rename the country.... Research in Motion!!!
______________________________________________________

Canada will not be like Norway

WE will have oil & technology!!! We will crush Norway.. "the new Canadian enemy"

harls

Dec 21, 2007, 7:19 PM

Are you drunk, Caltrane?

caltrane74

Dec 21, 2007, 10:27 PM

Are you drunk, Caltrane?

No just delerious.....

Waterlooson

Dec 22, 2007, 1:54 AM

Damn, finally some updates about RIM.

Obviously, that's why you continue to frequent this thread. :haha:

WaterlooInvestor

Dec 24, 2007, 8:16 AM

Damn, finally some updates about RIM.

As far as I can tell, I'm the only person who has an interest in this company and does a post with every report. ;)

Canadian
National Post: http://www.nationalpost.com/story.html?id=190082
Toronto Star: http://www.thestar.com/article/287457
Montreal Gazette: http://www.canada.com/montrealgazette/news/business/story.html?id=039c7d36-4107-4963-a91f-d9afc0b09be7
The Vancouver Sun: http://www.canada.com/vancouversun/news/business/story.html?id=7d9f6bb5-531d-4a7e-a110-6136f5d6e085
Ottawa Citizen: http://www.canada.com/ottawacitizen/news/business/story.html?id=9fbeb107-f88e-4a49-8325-9be8848cf80b&k=6037
Calgary Sun: http://calsun.canoe.ca/Business/2007/12/21/4735601-sun.html
Edmonton Journal: http://www.canada.com/edmontonjournal/news/business/story.html?id=05fcca92-5cee-4d51-9132-ecc97fa492c1
Quebec City: their search engine doesn't work properly, but they've had many articles in the past
Hamilton Spectator: http://www.thespec.com/News/Business/article/300009
Winnipeg Free Press: http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/subscriber/business/story/4096573p-4694837c.html
Waterloo Region Record: http://news.therecord.com/Business/article/285699
London Free Press: http://lfpress.ca/newsstand/Business/2007/12/22/4736844-sun.html

International
CNBC: http://www.cnbc.com/id/22359033/for/cnbc/
CNN: http://money.cnn.com/2007/12/21/markets/markets_545/index.htm
Wall Street Journal: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB119828254092446053.html?mod=googlenews_wsj
Fox Business: http://www.foxbusiness.com/markets/article/wall-street-washed-green-dow-surges-200_416774_2.html
Forbes: http://www.forbes.com/markets/2007/12/21/briefing-merrill-rim-markets-equity-cx_er_1221markets07.html
Bloomberg: http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601103&sid=aIBDbsiAkhoI&refer=us
Reuters: http://www.reuters.com/article/usMktRpt/idUSN2125387820071221
Financial Times: http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/2692a298-af4c-11dc-880f-0000779fd2ac.html
Radio New Zealand: http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/latest/200712221237/new_zealand_market_up_46_points

Quote from an article Waterlooson posted: http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/071221/wall_street.html

"Stocks rose for the second day after Research in Motion said late Thursday that its fiscal third-quarter profit more than doubled on strong demand for its BlackBerry smart phones. The results gave Wall Street hope that the technology sector has room to expand and that consumers and businesses are still spending."

harls

Dec 24, 2007, 2:58 PM

the man's a human news feed!

vid

Dec 24, 2007, 6:28 PM

He must have a really exciting life! :)

"RIM stock is up $3.43 and a Shopper Drug Mart just opened downtown!! BEST DAY EVAR!!"

WaterlooInvestor

Dec 25, 2007, 12:29 AM

He must have a really exciting life! :)

Not really, it's nowhere near as exciting as life in Thunder Bay. :P

Aylmer

Dec 25, 2007, 1:42 AM

Not really, it's nowhere near as exciting as life in Thunder Bay. :P

:haha:

vid

Dec 25, 2007, 5:58 AM

Life is only exciting here because at any moment, you could lose your job! :P

1ajs

Dec 25, 2007, 6:36 AM

yea but vid you have no job to loose your a lucky one :P

vid

Dec 25, 2007, 6:56 AM

I can quit while I'm ahead! :tup:

And I volunteer, so it's not like I'm just sitting around doing piss-all. :)

Ruckus

Dec 27, 2007, 2:24 AM

Resource companies enjoy eventful year
Murray Lyons, The StarPhoenix
Published: Wednesday, December 26, 2007

Observers and investors in the two big publicly traded resource companies based in Saskatoon might be forgiven for wanting to quote Charles Dickens in describing the fortunes of Potash Corporation of Saskatchewan, Inc. and uranium producer Cameco Corp. respectively in 2007.

It was the best of times. It was the worst of times . . .

Both companies are widely held and listed both on the Toronto and New York exchanges, but shareholders of each had a different rides during the year.

A graph of the PotashCorp share price looks like an expedition heading up Everest. The share price started at around $51 at the beginning of the year and marched uphill well past $130. It has managed to linger in that region as the year neared its end. All along the way up, the company reported record quarterly sales and net profits.

This year, PotashCorp overtook Toronto-based Barrick Gold to become Canada's highest valued gold mining company by market capitalization, with a $40-billion market cap exceeding the former leader by a healthy $7 billion.

Things couldn't have gone better for the company on the sales front. Demand for fertilizer, particularly potash, grew in both Asia and the Americas along with the rising demand for crops such as corn, soybeans and palm that are grown for both human consumption and processing into biofuels. Asian potash buyers were paying $265 US a tonne out of Vancouver in November, a 44 per cent year-over-year rise.

Meanwhile, the "worst of times" analogy may be a bit overblown for Cameco, although there were times when the company seemed to be under siege or just under water. A graph of Cameco's share price showed the stock moving steadily upward until mid-summer when it hit a peak of $59.90 and then began a steady slide down to below $36. The spot price of uranium slid as Cameco reported more difficulties throughout its far flung operations, including contamination under its key refining building in Port Hope, Ont., a longer time frame for fixing the flooded Cigar Lake asset, and late in the year, yet another underground flood at a mine in northern Saskatchewan. This time, it was the venerable Rabbit Lake operation that temporarily shut down.

Throughout the year, Cameco kept revising the time frame it would take to fully plug the major geological leak underground at the Cigar Lake project and move that high-grade deposit toward production, now not slated until 2011. In the week before Christmas, Cameco provided a Cigar Lake update that seemed like positive news.

The company expected to be ready by February to do a test to show how well its concrete plug at the water inflow area is holding. It also said work to control water inflow at Rabbit Lake was successful. In two days of trading after that update, Cameco's share price recovered to $39.56

Cameco executives might argue the "worst of times" never applied to the company's quarter-by-quarter results in 2007.

Because of the big run-up in uranium prices, partly triggered by the Cigar Lake flood itself in October 2006, Cameco is headed for a year of record revenues and perhaps net earnings as well.

In the Saskatchewan economy, both big public companies accelerated capital spending with PotashCorp announcing major expansions at Rocanville potash mine in eastern Saskatchewan and at two Saskatoon-area mines at Cory and Patience Lake. The company also announced an expansion at its New Brunswick operations, on par with the expansions of Rocanville and Cory.

Permanent job growth at the mine and mill sites in Saskatchewan is expected to grow by several hundred people at each as the company accelerates, by three years, its ability to produce 15 million tonnes of potash annually by 2012. All told, the company is committed to spending about $3.5 billion in Saskatchewan and another $1.6 billion in New Brunswick.

PotashCorp president and CEO Bill Doyle says his company is the best positioned in the world to expand production quickly, by using existing mine infrastructure to expand underground operations and add to milling capacity at surface.

Some junior companies in Saskatchewan have announced they are well into the "scoping" process and could see completely new mines built in the province, the first in four decades while several other producers such as Agrium and Mosaic Company are also looking at expansions of existing mines and possibly new greenfield mines as well. But PotashCorp's head says they won't be caught napping.

Cameco increased the size of its permanent staff throughout the year as it took on more experts in such areas as hydrology and mine engineering. The growing staff complement was bolstered also by increased work for engineering and environmental consulting companies based in Saskatoon. The company went looking for more office space in the city.

Besides the ongoing problems with mines and uranium refineries requiring environmental cleanups before operations can restart, Cameco's top executives spent part of the year playing defence, especially after a particularly harsh assessment by an analyst in mid-summer who referred to Cameco's head office -- hived off in an industrial part of Saskatoon -- as Sleepy Hollow due to its inability to make big acquisitions to broaden its global uranium reach.

In at least two successive conference calls with analysts, Cameco president Jerry Grandey bristled at the notion his company was not attempting to secure future quality uranium properties.

Grandey told them the company has an active exploration program. He said the company is working on joint venture projects on highly prospective uranium properties in Canada and around the world and the soaring spot price of uranium had skewed economics this year away from potential targets.

Grandey pointed out to analysts that Cameco's mine production should grow 80 per cent over the next nine years, reaching 36 million pounds of uranium by 2016, just through organic growth.

Analysts are hoping 2008 is the year Cameco will make the water in its mines go away.

mlyons@sp.canwest.com

Source (http://www.canada.com/saskatoonstarphoenix/news/business/story.html?id=c4e522cf-b191-4593-8587-c082a73f87b6&p=1)

Ruckus

Dec 27, 2007, 2:31 AM

Less recent, but still relevant.

Potash potential
Investors bet millions on Athabasca's plan for Burr-area desposit
Murray Lyons, The StarPhoenix
Published: Wednesday, December 12, 2007

http://a123.g.akamai.net/f/123/12465/1d/media.canada.com/idl/sasp/20071212/209310-68914.jpg
Dawn Zhou, president of Athabasca Potash Inc., believes a new potash mine could be a reality within five years
Greg Pender, The StarPhoenix

There is not much valuable real estate left in the unincorporated village of Burr (Pop. 3), located about halfway between Guernsey and Humboldt along Highway 20, besides the RM of Wolverine office and a community hall.

But an upstart Saskatchewan potash company has a group of institutional investors talking about the potential, multibillion-dollar value of the Burr potash deposit located 1.1 kilometres below the Prairie landscape.

These institutional investors are doing more than just talk about Athabasca Potash Inc. of Saskatoon and its Burr project. By the end of this week, Athabasca expects to have closed its over-subscribed initial public offering and raised close to $49 million from investors. As early as Thursday, shares of Athabasca could be trading on the main TSX exchange under the trading symbol API.

The Burr potash land lease was first explored by drill bits half a century ago. Most important to Athabasca Potash, it is located almost immediately north of the giant PCS Lanigan mine and its extensive potash leases and shares the same geology, according to Athabasca's founder, president and CEO Dawn Zhou.

She has been quietly working toward going public with Athabasca for more than two years. In today's bull potash market, Zhou predicts that in another five years the Burr project will become the Burr potash mine.

With world demand growing each year by an estimated two million tonnes, or the equivalent of one new greenfield mine, Zhou says there is no doubt in her mind the world will need the production of another big Saskatchewan potash mine.

"We know Saskatchewan has lots of resources and we want to increase Saskatchewan's potash market," she said Tuesday.

Zhou's diligence in discovering mining reports and core samples in Regina that were drilled in 1958 by the former Potash Corporation of America and other now-forgotten companies into a lease area then simply known as KP 308 was intentional. She says she was looking for the most prospective area so that Athabasca could focus immediately on becoming the first company in Saskatchewan to put a new "greenfield" potash mine into the ground this century.

And while that might seem like a tall order for a new start-up company, Zhou has attracted big Saskatchewan and national mining industry names to Athabasca's board, including board chair Ken MacNeill, the president of Saskatoon's Shore Gold Inc., and James Gardiner of Calgary, a former president and CEO of Fording Coal Ltd.

While many junior companies look for mineral resources and then seek a senior partner, Zhou is confident Athabasca can complete all the required pre-feasibility and feasibility studies without having to seek a senior corporate partner.

"We want to have the option. We could continue independently," said Zhou, a Chinese-trained geologist who recently marked 18 years as a resident and business consultant in Saskatoon. "As long as you have a good project, you could convince people there are investment opportunities so the financing would be there for you.

"You've got to walk before that, but it's going to be there for you. There's a lot of cash out there -- China has $1.3 trillion to invest -- and they are looking for good projects."

Zhou says the idea of creating a potash exploration and development company grew out of visits made in 2004 by Chinese venture capital companies who used Zhou and her CSIT Consulting Inc. business as a first point of contact.

In 2004, she simply named her company Athabasca Resources, assuming she might join the rush to explore for uranium in the far north. Instead, research showed there was no such thing as a junior potash exploration company in Saskatchewan despite the enormous, well-defined deposits located within mineral leases long abandoned by other companies.

The initial bit of financing to do some early stage seismic work came through money raised among family and friends she has made in the Saskatoon business community, plus an early investment of $150,000 from Tom MacNeill's 49 North Resource fund.

The five drill holes done a year ago required a further private placement of $3.5 million and Zhou says almost all of that money was raised among Saskatchewan residents interested in the resource play.

Last year, a further private placement raised $11 million and some $6 million of that has already been spent on the prospects done so far.

The $46.5 million net that will go into Athabasca's bank account once the brokers are paid will last about 18 months before additional funds need to be raised to get to a mine, Zhou says. The ultimate source of the $2 or $3 billion dollars ultimately needed to fund a potash mine is an issue that time will resolve, she said.

"We are lucky," Zhou said Tuesday. "We have the most advanced exploration project. At this point, we are not subject to any joint venture.

"We believe you need to give the market time to recognize the value of the project and we will continue adding value to the project as time goes on."

mlyons@sp.canwest.com

Source (http://www.canada.com/saskatoonstarphoenix/news/story.html?id=5cf4ca23-039d-43fc-9e18-5d7cf511b3c2&k=48006&p=1)

1ajs

Dec 28, 2007, 7:58 PM

Business is sweet at Ganong

Last Updated: Friday, December 28, 2007 | 12:38 PM ET

CBC News (http://www.cbc.ca/news/credit.html)

While it's been a rough year for many candy manufacturers in Canada, the biggest candy maker in the Maritimes is pursuing expansion plans.
Ganong Chocolates has significantly increased its output of sugar candies like jujubes and peppermints, said the company's CEO.
"We currently are operating with something in the area of 15 to 20 per cent more employees than last year," said David Ganong, a fourth-generation confectioner.
The company is in negotiations that could result in significant expansion to its business, Ganong said.
"Were we to be successful in some of the discussions that are currently taking place, that would need to ramp up even considerably further."
Ganong hopes some of those discussions will be completed within the next few months.

Ganong has watched as candy-making giants fell this year.
Hershey shut down all three of its Canadian factories in 2007, including the Moirs chocolate plant in Dartmouth, just before Christmas.

Production from that plant was moved to Mexico.
Ganong Chocolates has actually gained business out of its competitors shutting down, Ganong said.
"It's our goal to try and take advantage of what opportunities might exist as a result of the change in the nature of the industry and as I would call it, the consolidation," Ganong said.
Candy exports to the U.S. have also fallen because of the stronger Canadian dollar.

caltrane74

Jan 8, 2008, 6:04 PM

Property Report: OUTLOOK: OFFICE SPACE

Inflated values, but without the bubble

Office sector's fundamentals are so stable that it's considered an attractive investment vehicle, observers say
TERRENCE BELFORD

Special to The Globe and Mail

January 8, 2008

Ask Tom Farley, president of Brookfield Properties Corp.'s Canadian operations, what he thinks 2008 holds for the office market and his words resound with confidence: "In my 30 years' experience, I have never seen the fundamentals as strong as they are now."

It is an opinion shared with almost every mover and shaker in the industry.

"I think 2008 is going to bring us great new opportunities," says Paul Finkbeiner, president of GWL Realty Advisers Inc., with a 30-million-square-foot office portfolio.

Yes, the U.S. credit crunch has spread to Canada, but those being affected are land- lords who have overleveraged their borrowing, or buyers that have counted on mortgage financing well above a 75-per-cent debt-to-equity ratio.

"Earlier this year, we were outbid for many deals. But now those groups that bought with greater than 75 per cent financing are finding that they can't afford them," Mr. Finkbeiner says. Things turned around in the fall and "we have started getting those deals again."

Wayne Barwise, senior vice-president of office development for Cadillac Fairview Corp., says that if you need a sign of the times, just look at the office construction under way or in the planning stages. That happy combination of low vacancy rates and high demand means that landlords can now get enough in rent to justify building once more.

"The exciting part is the new projects are all 21st century technology. They are almost all LEED-certified, green buildings," he says, referring to the Leadership in Energy and Environmental Design program. "They may cost 5 to 7 per cent more to build, but they deliver 30 to 50 per cent savings on things like energy use."

In fact, Cadillac Fairview has about 3.5 million square feet in office developments going up across Canada with projects in both Toronto and Calgary, and GWL is sitting on a 600,000-square-foot project at 18 York St. in Toronto that is ready to go once it inks a deal with a major tenant.

"Like everyone else, we won't proceed these days until we are substantially preleased," Mr. Finkbeiner says.

Perhaps most important for landlords, brokers, agents and investors is that there is rock solid confidence in Canada's commercial real estate markets, says Paul Morse, head of Cushman Wakefield LePage's national office leasing practice.

"That is a really important factor," he says. "There is very little wheeling and dealing and no feeling of 'let's just wait until the bubble breaks.' There is no bubble. This has become a stable, professionally managed industry and, as a result, there is great confidence in it as an asset class among capital markets and investors."

I posted this in the proposal thread, should have been posted in the Canadian business thread.

from yyzr on UT/ globe and mail.

caltrane74

Jan 8, 2008, 6:59 PM

Article from the Toronto Star

http://multimedia.thestar.com/images/a5/0d/fee8583c48fe9d8c27459b4472b6.jpeg
ANDREW WALLACE/TORONTO STAR

A worker removes a sign to unveil an increase in price for new condos that went up for sale at One Bloor East last month. Almost 90 people took turns camping in a sidewalk lineup outside the sales office.

Condomania hits new heights

Dec 29, 2007 04:30 AM
Gail Swainson
Real Estate Reporter

Final details of Canada's priciest condo are still being firmed up with a buyer from Hong Kong. But it's safe to say that architect Roy Varacalli is working overtime to ensure that all the unnamed businessman's wishes come true in a $25million penthouse suite at One Bloor East.

In the year of the condo – people camped out on the sidewalks to buy them, sales eclipsed those of regular houses for the first time and prices kept soaring – One Bloor garnered most of the attention.

The 7,500-square-foot suite at the building will take up the entire 80th floor and features a 360-degree bird's-eye view of the city. Renderings, which fit the mould of what some in the industry call "real estate pornography," show the so-called infinity edge indoor pool that has a glass wall overlooking Toronto's downtown on one end.

The suite also features five outdoor terraces with heated floors, three bedrooms, library, music room, two kitchens, a walk-in wine cellar, cold storage closet for furs and his-and-hers ensuite master baths. Hers has a steam shower with heated floors, fireplace, wine fridge and imported Italian soaker tub fronting a solid glass wall.

Varacalli also says a few metres will be added to the building's distinctive rooftop "wings," to ensure that it's the tallest residential building in the city at 282 metres high.

That would trump the spired Trump tower, which – despite being cut from 70 to 57 storeys this year – claims to be Toronto's tallest planned residential building at 281.88 metres. The $25 million price tag also trumps the reported $20-million tab for the penthouse at the Trump tower, a record set earlier in the year.

http://www.thestar.com/living/article/288614

About the condo boom.....

Aylmer

Jan 9, 2008, 1:11 AM

Toronto and Vancouver have no end in sight...

When do you figure it will spread to Ottawa and Montreal?

vid

Jan 9, 2008, 2:11 PM

"Varacalli also says a few metres will be added to the building's distinctive rooftop "wings," to ensure that it's the tallest residential building in the city at 282 metres high."

Yeah? Well Waverly Park Towers is going to stick a 300m pole on top of their building! Suck on it, Toronto!!! Superficial height games are ON!

caltrane74

Jan 9, 2008, 2:18 PM

Wings or No Wings..

This building is tall....

http://www.upside-down.ca/sdphotos/scale2b.jpg

vanman

Jan 9, 2008, 2:44 PM

Final details of Canada's priciest condo are still being firmed up with a buyer from Hong Kong. But it's safe to say that architect Roy Varacalli is working overtime to ensure that all the unnamed businessman's wishes come true in a $25million penthouse suite at One Bloor East.

That building will be insane when complete. However, it won't have the claim to fame of having the country's most expensive condo:

Ritz-Carlton penthouse carries $28-million price tag
Yet-to-be built downtown condo smashes lofty price barrier

Bruce Constantineau
The Vancouver Sun

Tuesday, January 08, 2008

VANCOUVER - Downtown Vancouver's luxury condo market has shattered the $20-million price barrier, with a yet-to-be-built penthouse at 1133 West Georgia carrying a price tag of more than $28 million.

That's at least $10 million more than the record $18 million paid by an unnamed U.S. businessman last year for a 48th-floor penthouse in the Private Residences at Hotel Georgia, set for completion by 2011.

The $28-million-plus condo will occupy about 7,400 square feet on the 59th and 60th floors of the Residences at Ritz-Carlton development, also set for occupancy in 2011.

Vancouver condo marketer Bob Rennie said the Ritz-Carlton project was going to have three penthouse suites, but demand for a larger unit prompted developers to combine two suites into one large penthouse.

"We have some serious interest in a large unit, so we decided to put the northwest and northeast penthouses together," he said in an interview. "With people wanting size, it's just a good business decision to put the two together."

Rennie said potential buyers of the luxury condo include "corporate giants," with two local clients and one overseas client already expressing a strong interest.

He said the penthouse's current configuration calls for three bedrooms, two dens, a family room, formal dining room, a "massive" kitchen and butler's pantry.

"But no matter what we pencil in with the architects, whoever buys this is going to add their signature to it," Rennie said.

The asking price for the Ritz-Carlton condo works out to a whopping $3,800 a square foot, compared with $2,400 a square foot for the $18-million Hotel Georgia penthouse.

Rennie said that beyond $2,000 a square foot, prices almost don't matter to some buyers.

"At what point does a Rolls- Royce buyer say he'll only pay $500,000, not $600,000?" he said. "He doesn't. He just pays for what he wants because you're dealing with a very privileged buyer.

"So when you're talking over $20 million, a million dollars is not going to make or break the sale. It's a discretionary purchase. Nobody has to buy a $20-million condo but if they're looking, there are very few to choose from."

Construction of the $500-million Ritz-Carlton project - on Georgia Street between Thurlow and Bute - is slated to begin in March, with completion expected by the summer of 2011.

The site had been a vacant and derelict concrete shell for more than a decade, following failed attempts to develop a private members' club and a strata-title office building. Vancouver-based Holborn Group bought the property from Cadillac Fairview about three years ago.

The development will contain a 127-room Ritz-Carlton hotel and 123 luxury condos. The entire building will be managed by Ritz-Carlton and condo owners will have access to hotel amenities like 24-hour room service, a concierge, housekeeping services and staffing for special entertainment events.

caltrane74

Jan 9, 2008, 2:57 PM

But the condo in Toronto has been sold..

I think that's the difference.

That article seems to suggest the Ritz Carlton Vancouver project has not yet started construction.....

what's going on there??? I thought it was under construction.

vanman

Jan 9, 2008, 3:28 PM

But the condo in Toronto has been sold..

Didn't realize that.

That article seems to suggest the Ritz Carlton Vancouver project has not yet started construction.....

what's going on there??? I thought it was under construction.

It is under construction, or destruction , whatever you want to call it. They had to demolish the existing concrete building (I think it was 10 floors tall) and now are currently at grade. The much harder task of demolition of the old building's foundation is still yet to be completed.

vid

Jan 9, 2008, 3:52 PM

Wings or No Wings..

This building is tall....

http://www.upside-down.ca/sdphotos/scale2b.jpg

What is the really cool looking one called?

caltrane74

Jan 9, 2008, 4:05 PM

That building is just 3D on UT having some fun.

WaterlooInvestor

Jan 18, 2008, 2:27 PM

Markets open in a few minutes. Let's hope we don't have another triple digit loss today. :yuck:

1ajs

Jan 18, 2008, 6:09 PM

water the markets were at record highs its just corecting its self...

vid

Jan 18, 2008, 6:28 PM

Markets open in a few minutes. Let's hope we don't have another triple digit loss today. :yuck:

Don't worry, nothing will happen to your beloved. :)

WaterlooInvestor

Jan 21, 2008, 3:05 PM

TSX loses $100 billion in a week
January 19, 2008
The Canadian Press
TORONTO

Canada's main stock market came under selling pressure for the fourth straight day yesterday, ending a week that erased billions of dollars of share values and which most traders would probably like to forget.

The widespread sell-off produced a five-day loss of nearly seven per cent on the Toronto Stock Exchange.

That wiped out more than $100 billion in the share value of investments held by ordinary Canadians in stocks and mutual funds.

At the end of December, the value of all the shares traded on the TSX senior market were worth more than $1.9 trillion. Since the beginning of the year, that market has dropped 8.3 per cent, a loss of nearly $160 billion in share values.

While that number is huge, it should be noted that Canadian markets generated fat returns between 2002 and late 2007 as investors cashed in on booming prices for energy, mining and financial services stocks, considered the staples of Canada's markets.

After the latest carnage, investors are now looking for any signs of recovery as they worry about growing recessionary fears in the United States and its battered credit and housing markets.

But there wasn't much hope in sight yesterday, despite an announcement from U.S. President George W. Bush that the government there would provide about $145 billion US worth of tax relief for consumers in an effort to get them spending again.

"Investors have slowly moved away from fearing a slowdown to pricing a harder landing in the U.S,'' said Vincent Delisle, portfolio manager at Scotiabank in Montreal.

"What's different this week is that up until now the TSX index had behaved somewhat better'' than the U.S. markets.

The Toronto Stock Exchange's key index ended the week with the deepest losses of all the major North American markets and among its biggest weekly declines in seven years.

Since Monday, the TSX has shed an astounding 895 points or 6.6 per cent of its value.

Yesterday, Toronto's S&P/TSX composite index contributed 58.51 points to the week's loss, closing at 12,737.12.

"Investors around the world are getting increasingly nervous about a U.S. recession and what it would mean to commodities markets and the rest of the world,'' Delisle said.

The defensive outlook was also evident on Wall Street where the Dow Jones industrials ended the week with a tallied loss of 507 points, or four per cent.

The market turbulence seems a long way from the happier days not long ago when Toronto's main index soared to a record of 14,626 on Oct. 30.

At the end of 2007, companies on the TSX were worth a combined $1.9 trillion while the TSX Venture Exchange-listed firms were valued at $62 billion.

"The market last year was really hanging on a very few situations that were still doing very, very well,'' said Delisle.

More than half of the TSX's returns in 2007 came from three top companies.

Research In Motion Ltd. of Waterloo, the maker of the hot-selling BlackBerry portable device, led the bunch with a 127 per cent increase.

The other major climbers were Potash Corp. of Saskatchewan Inc., up 158 per cent; and Alcan Inc. up 72 per cent.

Strength began to veer toward caution in the final weeks of the year as the U.S. credit crisis, revealed in August, quickly began to spread into global markets.

WaterlooInvestor

Jan 21, 2008, 3:08 PM

After last week's disaster, we're starting this week off much the same way: :hell:

TSX plunges more than 500 points at the open
Breaking News from The Globe and Mail
VIRGINIA GALT
Monday, January 21, 2008

The Toronto Stock Exchange plunged more than 500 points in early trading Monday, following steep declines in the European and Asian stock markets amid investor pessimism over the U.S. government's stimulus plan to prevent a recession.

The U.S. markets were closed for Martin Luther King day.

At 9:45 a.m. EST, the TSX was down 488.47 points to 12,12,48.65, a decline of almost 4 per cent. This comes on top of last week's 6.6-per-cent drop, which wiped out all of the market's gains for 2007.

U.K. benchmark FTSE-100 dropped 3.9 per cent to 5,673.1; France's CAC-40 Index plunged 4.5 per cent to 4,861.2, while Germany's slumped 5.35 per cent to 6,922.7.

In Asia, India's benchmark stock index tumbled 7.4 per cent, while Hong Kong's blue-chip Hang Seng index plummeted 5.5 per cent to 23,818.86, its biggest percentage drop since the Sept. 11, 2001, terror attacks.

Investors dumped shares because they were skeptical that an economic stimulus plan President George W. Bush announced Friday would shore up the economy that has been battered by problems in its housing and credit markets. The plan, which requires approval by Congress, calls for about $145-billion (U.S.) worth of tax relief to encourage consumer spending.

“We've taken our lead from the Asian markets who have not been impressed by the U.S. There's debate if there's going to be a recession in the U.S. I don't think there's much chance of that though,” said Richard Hunter an analyst at Hargreaves Lansdown Stockbrokers Ltd. in London.

Concerns about the outlook for the U.S. economy, a major export market for Asian companies, has sent the region's markets sliding in 2008. Just last Wednesday, the Hang Seng index sank 5.4 per cent.

“It's another horrible day,” said Francis Lun, a general manager at Fulbright Securities in Hong Kong. “Today it's because of disappointment that the U.S. stimulus (package) is too little, too late and investors feel it won't help the economy recover.”

Japan's benchmark Nikkei 225 index slid 3.9 per cent to close at 13,325.94 points, its lowest close in more than 2 years. China's Shanghai Composite index plunged 5.1 per cent, partly on worries about mainland Chinese banks' exposure to risky U.S. mortgage investments.

“People are certainly nervous about a potential recession in the U.S. spilling over to the rest of the world,” said David Cohen, Director of Asian Economic Forecasting at Action Economics in Singapore.

“Maybe there's still some wariness about politicians are able to come up with a compromise and act sufficiently quickly” on a stimulus package, Mr. Cohen said. “I think the impact would be marginal anyway.”

Investors took cues from the negative reaction to the president's plan on Wall Street on Friday, when the Dow Jones industrial average slid 0.5 per cent to 12,099.30, bringing its loss for the year so far to nearly 9 per cent.

Traders also have shrugged off assurances from Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke that the U.S. central bank is ready to act aggressively — which means a likely big interest rate cut later this month — to help the sagging economy.

Some analysts predict that Asia won't suffer dramatically from a U.S. recession because increased trade and investment within Asia has made the region less reliant on the United States than in the past. Excluding Japan, 43 per cent of Asia's exports go to other nations in the region, Lehman Brothers calculates, up from 37 per cent in 1995.

But on Monday, uncertainty and pessimism reigned.

In Tokyo trading, exporters got hit hard, partly because of the yen's recent strength against the dollar. Toyota Motor Corp. lost 3.3 per cent and Honda Motor Co. sank 3.4 per cent.

Shares of Bank of China dropped 6.4 per cent in Hong Kong after the South China Morning Post newspaper reported that the bank is expected to announce a “significant writedown” in U.S. subprime mortgage securities, citing unidentified sources. In Shanghai, the bank's stock declined 4.1 per cent.

India's the benchmark Sensex index fell 1,353 points, or 7.4 per cent — its second-biggest percentage drop ever — to 17,605.35 points. At one point, it was down nearly 11 per cent.

The decline hit companies across the board, with power utility Reliance Energy Ltd. falling 16.4 per cent. Major software company Tata Consultancy Services Ltd. slid 7.6 per cent “A gloomy U.S. climate has affected the global markets. Even if those markets recover, it will take some time for the recovery to reach India because today's fall has been so drastic,” said Jayant Pai, of the Mumbai investment company IL&FS Ltd.

Still, Ms. Pai and others suggested that the declines could lead to a buying opportunity.

“The sell-off today takes us close to the bottom,” she said.

Since the start of the year, Japan's Nikkei index has declined 13 per cent, while Hong Kong's blue-chip index is down more than 14 per cent. Even China's Shanghai index — which nearly doubled last year — has fallen 6.6 per cent over the same period and nearly 20 per cent from its all-time closing high on Oct. 16.