[officedweller]

( oh yeah after Libs won govt, Bombardier closed the facility down... it was the NDP that actually got the facility built!)

So it would have been the NDP that failed to contractually bind Bombardier to keep the facility operating ...

I also have to say that it makes the Canada Line trains look like a complete piece of %%%% that they built with a minimum budget with very little thought on the design and practical use.

It's the battle of the [subway] cars!
Who's going to do a side by side comparison of specs?

Rotem specs here:
http://www.hyundai-rotem.co.kr/Eng/Business/Rail/Railroad/Product/rail1_pop12.asp

[kylemacmac]

As for the system map, it's pretty easy: put the whole thing on a square panel. There's no reason it needs to be a rectangle over the doors. Plus, it's way better to have the whole train system map.

As seen in the Montreal Metro: (all lines + commuter rail)

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3163/2993174494_de01423968.jpg?v=0

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/120/299800195_ef2377f5c9.jpg?v=0

source = flickr

[twoNeurons]

Actually, many systems I've been on have both.

A single line over the door and a system map on a panel beside the door.

A system map at platform level would also be useful.

I don't see a need for the Canada Line on that map, apart from a line going down at Waterfront indicating its existence. Interestingly, the design of that map easily allows room for the M-Line West along the Broadway Corridor.

[WaxItYourself]

Actually, many systems I've been on have both.

A single line over the door and a system map on a panel beside the door.

A system map at platform level would also be useful.

I don't see a need for the Canada Line on that map, apart from a line going down at Waterfront indicating its existence. Interestingly, the design of that map easily allows room for the M-Line West along the Broadway Corridor.

if the names for the Millenium Line stations are moved below the stations there would also be room for the Evergreen Line on the map.

[zivan56]

Canada Line does have real heavy rail cars, just not real heavy rail system capacity.

Heavy rail as in passenger capacity.
Otherwise, a good solution to upgrade to "heavy rail" would be to buy a huge electric locomotive with passenger cars and run it on the tracks :haha:

[officedweller]

There's no reason it needs to be a rectangle over the doors.

Harder to see on a crowded train if it's down low.

[mr.x]

Wow, Stadium's third platform looks so...new. lol.

[westcoast314]

Canada Line footage, video of trip from Waterfront to YVR from the train.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ebodV3UCHpc

[Unregistered]

Canada Line footage, video of trip from Waterfront to YVR from the train.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ebodV3UCHpc

When it passed through King Edward, I noticed the same small text, blue-background signage as we saw at Lansdowne.

I really don't get it. There's already a "blue" line in the system. Why would they choose to make another when there are so many other colours to choose from?

[twoNeurons]

I think it's "Translink Blue" Good idea or not, it's not unprecedented. K=London doesn't specify the line color on their station signs.
http://www.photograph-london.com/london-photos/200500229.jpg
source (http://www.photograph-london.com/london-photos/photo-200500229.php)

[officedweller]

More MKII pics:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/chsscassidy

The mapped LEDs light green, yellow and red.

On Flickr, Sillygwailo notes the following:

All stations previous to the station you are going towards will be unlit. The upcoming station will blink. The terminus station will be lit in red. That could be anything from King George for Expo Line, VCC-Clark for the Millennium Line, Waterfront Station for both, or any other station in between if that's the terminus for that actual train. For example, in the morning rush hour, some trains return to Edmonds Station, so that will be in red. If there's problems on the track, then whatever SkyTrain decides is the terminus stations for that train will be in red.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/sillygwailo/3509015425/in/set-72157617792761620/

[usog]

Seriously, why are they mentioning separate 1300 and 1400 series when they talk about the new cars? Is there a difference?

[mr.x]

^ yea, the propulsion systems are different.

[usog]

^ yea, the propulsion systems are different.
Oooo, that's odd. Any info on the differences?

[mr.x]

^ i vaguely recall it having to do with power distribution, and it also means the trains sound different than the old Mark II's.

[metroXpress]

The new cars are nice. I can't wait to ride them! BTW, you forgot to source your photos other than the link.



So picky....

SOURCE FOR THE PHOTOS I POSTED A PAGE BACK: CARMINE MARINELLI, 24 HOURS


LINK: http://vancouver.24hrs.ca/News/gallery/2009/05/06/9373991.php

[deasine]

Wow, Stadium's third platform looks so...new. lol.

I believe they changed the floors... not that anyone ever uses that platform anyway.

OMG.... YES YES YES!!! and omg they are nice.....

And for those who are thinking of voting Liberals, just wish that the Canada line was as good as this.... this is what you get with a P3.... 40m platforms, singletracking, cut and cover tunnel and trains made in Korea. These trains COULD have been built in Vancouver as they were with the Millennium Line back when the NDP was in govt! ( oh yeah after Libs won govt, Bombardier closed the facility down... it was the NDP that actually got the facility built!)

I would have to agree with ravman, the Canada Line is cost cutting at its best. I would rather it be double its budget to have at least the same capacity as Skytrain (or even have real heavy rail cars).

That has nothing to do with the interior of the vehicle. If we would have to blame, it would be the company that designed the trains: ROTEM, Hyundai. All their trains designed by that company have sterile but functional interiors, which is what we got on the Canada Line. There is nothing wrong with having trains built elsewhere and there is nothing wrong with ROTEM itself or else you wouldn't have international corporations like the MTRC purchasing from them anyway.

The concept of P3 is not the problem. I admit the Canada Line might not be the best form in P3, but there are other P3 projects that are functioning no problem. Privatization isn't an issue either and I don't understand why people are so against of that. As long as service gets straight to your doorstep as promised, then you are good. MTRC is fully privatized and it is one of the most efficient systems in the world. Many Japanese Rail Companies are fully privatized and I don't see people complaining about those services.

BTW, that LED light box looks like it is an addition to the train (as it sticks out) so I believe it can be placed in other MKIIs should TransLink ever refurbish the current fleet.

[Gordon]

I think that the the bar that goes along the center of the New skytrain cars might work well in the Mark1s in the miiddle part of the car where the inward facing seats are.

[red-paladin]

I really with the old Mark IIs were rebuilt to be like this, but more than that,
I wish the Mark Is would be completely rebuilt or phased out.
I know that Scarborough's RT transit track is only capable of using Mark I trains, so we should sell all the mark Is to them

[lightrail]

I think it's "Translink Blue" Good idea or not, it's not unprecedented. K=London doesn't specify the line color on their station signs.
http://www.photograph-london.com/london-photos/200500229.jpg
source (http://www.photograph-london.com/london-photos/photo-200500229.php)

Not on the roundal - that's the same for all stations.
The colour coding is done in the trains and on the platforms and on the way-finding.

This is the Bakerloo Line platform - Brown colour on the sign band same as the colour on the tube map
http://www.dodgetrucks.org/gallery/data/500/Baker_Street_Tube_Station.jpg

This is on the Victoria Line - Light Blue on the sign board and the trackside power band - same as the colour on the tube map
http://www.photograph-london.com/london-photos/200500254.jpg

Clapham Common on the Northern Line - uses black edging - same as the line colour on the tube map - yes, that is a narrow platform and is still in use - this is how the London tube cheaped out in the 1920s and they're paying for it today. Many of these old stations have been made larger by digging a new tube tunnel next door for wider platforms.
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/36/87781920_0982070cfb.jpg

Bakerloo Line way-finding signs - love the old tiles from the 1900s
http://z.about.com/d/studenttravel/1/0/9/9/bakerloo-line-london-tube.jpg

Way-finding at Waterloo Station - signs pointing to Waterloo and City Line and Bakerloo Line - using the line's colours.
http://z.about.com/d/studenttravel/1/0/K/9/waterloo-station-london-tube.jpg

[Overground]

^I think Clapham North and Common are the only stations that have island platforms left on the Underground.

But yeah, their colour coding for signage is great. Plus the hand rails inside carriages match the Line's colour. Circle Line for example is yellow and District Line has green(latest rolling stock) etc.

District Line green
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2405/2260391797_f0ab35d172.jpg?v=0
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2405/2260391797_f0ab35d172.jpg?v=0
Circle yellow
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/130/318411794_99a11807f9.jpg?v=0
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/130/318411794_99a11807f9.jpg?v=0
Piccadilly blue
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/106/255244412_a6afc9dd32.jpg?v=0
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/106/255244412_a6afc9dd32.jpg?v=0

[SpongeG]

why are there controls and stuff on the new train?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FoVeQUlNwdM

[SpongeG]

fail

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1q0OW1f5DSs

[Dave2]

why are there controls and stuff on the new train?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FoVeQUlNwdM

The current MK-II have controls too, in the same place, the cover is usually down and locked unless the train is being operated manually or semi-automatically, like during snow events.

[furbe]

Can the Mark 2 not be configured in 3 car sets? I'm confused as to why they don't build longer trains. They have the platforms to accommodate this, but it doesn't seem to be on the radar. This would be especially helpful for peak hour traffic on the Expo line, in which people are packed in like sardines. I suspect this will get considerably worse when we build the Evergreen Line, as it will force more riders to transfer to Expo.

Can somebody with some knowledge help fill me in? Why don't we build longer trains with greater capacity per trip?

[Whalleyboy]

cause these trains were order be for the thought to order the middle train in the future they plan to order 3 car long mark II

[WaxItYourself]

I see they also use the term Way Out in England. I'm sure it's been mentioned before but that is most likely the reason why the Canada line stations say the same thing due to the Olympics. That signage for Way Out on the Canada Line look slike it can be removed and is merely temporary for the Olympics. Underneath it must say Exit. I'm sure the 'Way Out' signs on the Canada line stations will be taken off afterwards.

[DKaz]

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/106/255244412_a6afc9dd32.jpg?v=0

I thought the MK-Is were narrow, wow!

[deasine]

I see they also use the term Way Out in England. I'm sure it's been mentioned before but that is most likely the reason why the Canada line stations say the same thing due to the Olympics. That signage for Way Out on the Canada Line look slike it can be removed and is merely temporary for the Olympics. Underneath it must say Exit. I'm sure the 'Way Out' signs on the Canada line stations will be taken off afterwards.

Out is the term used for the SkyTrain line. I much prefer Exit but whatever.

[metroXpress]

cause these trains were order be for the thought to order the middle train in the future they plan to order 3 car long mark II

They are called C cars :)

A-C-B

[metroXpress]

Found this in the other forums of this board:

A map for size comparison

http://www.radicalcartography.net/subways_2.gif

http://www.radicalcartography.net/subways_2.pdf

[Whalleyboy]

it doesnt have west coast express in that picture

[David]

pretty sure it doesnt include heavy rail

[edit] nevermind, straining my eyes to read the key, it does say heavy rail...

[agrant]

Looks like Seattle is missing their new line.

[dreambrother808]

so i guess the bay area wins for expanse and new york for density?

[racc]

And it is not like the Evergreen Line is anywhere near complete

[deasine]

And it is not like the Evergreen Line is anywhere near complete

B-Line

[lightrail]

Can the Mark 2 not be configured in 3 car sets? I'm confused as to why they don't build longer trains. They have the platforms to accommodate this, but it doesn't seem to be on the radar. This would be especially helpful for peak hour traffic on the Expo line, in which people are packed in like sardines. I suspect this will get considerably worse when we build the Evergreen Line, as it will force more riders to transfer to Expo.

Can somebody with some knowledge help fill me in? Why don't we build longer trains with greater capacity per trip?

Jhenifer at Buzzer blog said that Translink is looking at it. One drawback is that the trainsets are permanently fixed together. So if one car is defective, the entire 2-car train has to be taken out of service (current situation). If there is a three-car trainset, then the entire 3 cars would be out of service. The current 2-car configuration provides Translink with maximum flexibility for making up trains and minimises out of service cars. Still, they're looking at some C cars for three-car trains so they can make a five car train (A-C-B-A-B), or six car (A-C-B-A-C-B). Currently they can do the following (A-B), (A-B-A-B) or (A-B-A-B-A-B) - the last with platform extensions.

[racc]

B-Line

Oh, it does have the b-line, but the legend says the green is dedicated busways but neither of the b-lines are.

[lightrail]

I thought the MK-Is were narrow, wow!

The 1973 stock, seen in that picture are 2.62 metres wide - wider than the Mark II SkyTrain. They look more crowded because LU use heaily upholstered side-facing seats, plus the body is thicker for crash and noise protection, and there needs to be space for the doors, as they can't open outside due to the limited clearance. Plus the wheel assembly is under the seats too. Not to mention heating and air circulation,e etc.

Skytrain is around 2.4 metres wide

The Canada Line will be around 3.0 metres wide

[DKaz]

Actually the MK-Is are 2.45m wide.

The MK-IIs are 2.6m wide at the widest point, though both are the same widths at the floor.

[furbe]

Jhenifer at Buzzer blog said that Translink is looking at it. One drawback is that the trainsets are permanently fixed together. So if one car is defective, the entire 2-car train has to be taken out of service (current situation). If there is a three-car trainset, then the entire 3 cars would be out of service. The current 2-car configuration provides Translink with maximum flexibility for making up trains and minimises out of service cars. Still, they're looking at some C cars for three-car trains so they can make a five car train (A-C-B-A-B), or six car (A-C-B-A-C-B). Currently they can do the following (A-B), (A-B-A-B) or (A-B-A-B-A-B) - the last with platform extensions.

Thank you. Did a google search and got myself up to speed. I would like to see them invest in A-C-B and/or A-C-C-C-B at some point in the near future. I live at Main Street Skytrain station, and during peak hours you are jammed in like a sardine, if there's even room. I can't imagine if I wanted to commute with a bike or rode a wheelchair what that would be like.

[DKaz]

Besides the fact that bicycles aren't allowed in the peak hour direction...

[furbe]

Besides the fact that bicycles aren't allowed in the peak hour direction...

Right, of course. I suppose the same isn't true for wheelchairs users because of human rights issues, but I suppose Translink would encourage them to travel at off peak hours.

On that note, I think it would be great if in the future they allocated a single car to bicyclers and handicapped at some point in the future. Maybe have the B car outfitted a bit like Portland's Max LRT, but with little or no seating and additional bike racks:

http://trimet.org/howtoride/bikes/bikesonmax.htm

[DKaz]

Forgive me everyone for today I have sinned... the Transit Police was doing fare checks and I decided to hold one up for awhile "looking for my ticket". As soon as the guy warned that he would write up a citation for failure to produce a valid fare, I quickly said found it! I know I'm so bad but I just wanted to have a little fun to start off Monday morning.

[racc]

On that note, I think it would be great if in the future they allocated a single car to bicyclers and handicapped at some point in the future. Maybe have the B car outfitted a bit like Portland's Max LRT, but with little or no seating and additional bike racks:



The Canada Line cars are much better. They have large spaces in each car for bikes and wheelchairs. Official it is space for one bicycle but two or three could easily fit. Bikes will be allowed on even in peak directions. When the system does become more crowded in years to come, they will have attendants at the stations that might make cyclists wait for the next car if one is really crowded.

[deasine]

Some of you probably know... but we have a functional TV at Stadium (not those TVs at the platforms). I don't really know what to think of them... I find them quite useless unless they have updates. I'm pissed off at the fact that TransLink still isn't consistent... the graphics are like so different from the website... so different from the previous graphics... so different from everything else by TransLink.

http://lh3.ggpht.com/_2syn56cxREE/Sgjd0HRO1uI/AAAAAAAAEOs/GNKRFwEIDCM/s800/P1000023.JPG
Taken by Deasine ∙ March 11 2009 ∙ Hosted on Picasa ∙ Creative Commons Protected

[SpongeG]

ys they have one at lougheed it makes no sense where it is i can sit in traffic and watch it at that intersection

lol

[red-paladin]

On a related note, I wish they would pick a damn livery and stick to it.

[WaxItYourself]

Some of you probably know... but we have a functional TV at Stadium (not those TVs at the platforms). I don't really know what to think of them... I find them quite useless unless they have updates. I'm pissed off at the fact that TransLink still isn't consistent... the graphics are like so different from the website... so different from the previous graphics... so different from everything else by TransLink.
I think these TVs have more to do with advertising revenue than anythign else.

[deasine]

I think these TVs have more to do with advertising revenue than anythign else.

Advertise about SkyTrain Attendants? =P

[WaxItYourself]

Advertise about SkyTrain Attendants? =P

Skytrain attendants have needs too :yes:

[SpongeG]

i've never seen any ads on them just system info

like sky train etiquette

[WaxItYourself]

i've never seen any ads on them just system info

like sky train etiquette

They don't come up very often but I've seen an add or two. Vewry rarely though. I'm absolutely certain that they will eventually be used mainly for ad space. Translink is in need of a lot of money fast. This would be just one way to get them closer to their needs.

[officedweller]

The monitors at the station entrances would be good to display service delays and other status information - i.e. before your pay your fare.

[SpongeG]

the TV's on the platforms were showing a lot of advertising - but these ones at the entrances i haven't seen any yet

and when i drove past last night the yellow error screen was being displayed again

[eduardo88]

^I think Clapham North and Common are the only stations that have island platforms left on the Underground.

But yeah, their colour coding for signage is great. Plus the hand rails inside carriages match the Line's colour. Circle Line for example is yellow and District Line has green(latest rolling stock) etc.



HA! I never actually noticed that the line color is continued into the train! I've been taking the circle and district lines every day for almost 2 years and never noticed the color differences

[Overground]

^^Weird eh....something I never quite noticed too. Where it differs though, Northern and Jubilee are yellow. Black and grey perhaps not being the best choice for handrails obviously. I think the rest are colour matched but you'd have to check as I haven't been back home in ages.

[lightrail]

I asked Jhenifer at the Buzzer blog what is the difference between the 1300 and 1400 model of new SkyTrain MKII cars. Here's the answer:

In order for each MK II car to operate, it must be connected to another car forming a “married pair”. Although both vehicles are very similar in look, there are some equipment and system differences in them that, when combined, result in a functioning MK II train. The latest generation of these MK II vehicles are called the 1300 / 1400 series. Each MK II train is comprised of one series 1300 vehicle (an odd-numbered car e.g. car 301) and one series 1400 vehicle (an even- numbered car e.g. car 302). In this example, car 301 has the common Health Monitor, whereas car 302 has the train radio. With both cars forming a married pair, they operate as a cohesive system sharing and exchanging information.

[officedweller]

Thanks for the info.

[Xerx]

hey has any one seen this from the Honolulu rail RFI? it has some pretty interesting stuff, especially page 80 on interoperable cars.

http://www.honolulutransit.org/library/files/rfi_info_0308.pdf

[en2]

From: http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=34886946&postcount=504

I think these videos may interest some of you, especially the ones who have experienced real metro systems in Asia.

Watching the videos shows how forward thinking MTR was back in the 70s and 80s.

Its kind of ironic that the British who built the MTR have a crappier system back home now.

A lot of things we still have not even learned yet. Seems all we can do is blindly pursue P3 style projects as the "savior" to our funding problems.

Another Documentary Video for the MTRC produced in 1990! This time for the first three MTR Lines (Kwan Tong Line, Tsuen Wan Line and Island Line). Posted by tpbvideo and Narrated in English. Enjoy! :okay:

Underground Pride Part I:
FT9fzZJloWk

Underground Pride Part II:
tFZWF-1Rnbk

[duener]

^^how is that ironic? The Brits invented trains and underground metro railways; the first section of the London underground was built in 1863 vs. the MTR in 1979. Obviously like anything, lessons are learned over time, technology evolves and newer metros are/will be better than the MTR. Nothing ironic there.

As much as some people might complain about the tube, I think a number of its stations are far more elegant and charming than anything you would find on a post-WWII metro like the MTR. The trains are fast and frequent on most lines anyway.

[Metro-One]

I was on the WCE the other day and i could not help but notice how weathered the stations look. They are in desperate need of a power wash and there are many windows smudged by attempts to wash graffiti and many others are smashed (cracked)! Honestly, where is our pride?

[officedweller]

hey has any one seen this from the Honolulu rail RFI? it has some pretty interesting stuff, especially page 80 on interoperable cars.

http://www.honolulutransit.org/library/files/rfi_info_0308.pdf

Nice find!

Here's the particular response - check out the complete Bombardier response (i.e. proposal for ART) starting at page 55 of the document (download the doc before opening):

http://img41.imageshack.us/img41/2061/47382377.png (http://img41.imageshack.us/my.php?image=47382377.png)

[mezzanine]

^NOTE TO UBC SKYTRAIN WEBMASTERS:

Proof positive that skytrain/AGT systems are not proprietary and open tendering is possible!!:tup:

[mr.x]

Nice find!


It'll be up on the website within a few minutes.

[mr.x]

Actually, i have to run and do some errands but if anyone is kind enough to maybe post a blurb for the website post please do.

[Xerx]

^hey has anyone posted it to the website yet?

[deasine]

Look and see. Looks like someone did.

[ravman]

and the site is?

[Spork]

http://ubcskytrain.wordpress.com/

[SpongeG]

Pickpockets target SkyTrain passengers

A rash of pick-pocket thefts at Vancouver SkyTrain stations has transit police warning the public to be on the lookout for the culprits.

Since April 1 there have been thirteen reported cases of pick pocketing, eleven of which have targeted females.

According to transit police the pickpockets may work in groups, with one of the thieves distracting the victim while the other reaches into your purse or pockets.

“These criminals are opportunists, and are looking for likely victims. The best offence is a good defence when it comes to personal safety and securing belongings”, said transit police chief Ward Clapham.

Since the rash of thefts one man was arrested on the Commercial SkyTrain station platform on April 30 after attempting to steal a wallet from a purse. The man was caught by a civilian who reported the crime to police. He is believed to be associated with a group of pickpockets known to police.

Clapham urges people using SkyTrain to keep an eye on their possessions, close their bags, remain attentive, and report the thieves to police.

http://a123.g.akamai.net/f/123/12465/1d/www.vancouversun.com/news/pickpockets+target+skytrain+passengers/1604228/1319145.bin
A group of silent dancers groove to the music of their individual MP3 players as they ride the SkyTrain from Granville to King George stations and back again Saturday afternoon, inspired by a Facebook flash dance in Toronto last year. Local organizers expected up to 5,000 people, but less than 100 showed up
Photograph by: Ian Smith, Vancouver Sun, Vancouver Sun

http://www.vancouversun.com/news/Pickpockets+target+SkyTrain+passengers/1604228/story.html

[SpongeG]

Transportation: SkyTrain needs extensions

Langley Advance
Published: Friday, May 15, 2009

Dear Editor,

It really would be a great loss for Surrey and Vancouver if TransLink, because of funding shortages, is forced to shelve planned SkyTrain extensions - and especially so if more carbon-exhaust-producing buses must be put on the road as a result of SkyTrain extension cancellations or delays.

SkyTrain is the best transportation option available, especially environmentally. Commendable is the soon-to-come automated-rail Canada Line, connecting Richmond, the Airport and Vancouver.

And ALRT, unlike non-automated Light Rail Transit, will not negatively affect the flow of already-congested traffic, for SkyTrain's rail runs are all elevated and underground, and do not force road-vehicular traffic to a hault along SkyTrain's routes.

Here in the GVRD, research/polls reveal that what drivers - especially the Single Occupant Vehicle drivers - expect most of public transit in order for them to leave their cars at home, was the stipulation that the public transit be convenient and fast - both of which are the SkyTrain concept's prime aspects.

Frank G. Sterle Jr., White Rock

http://www2.canada.com/langleyadvance/news/letters/story.html?id=2c476cd4-bc3a-4b82-b62c-0dffec71acb2

[argon007]

Transportation: SkyTrain needs extensions

Langley Advance
Published: Friday, May 15, 2009

Dear Editor,

It really would be a great loss for Surrey and Vancouver if TransLink, because of funding shortages, is forced to shelve planned SkyTrain extensions - and especially so if more carbon-exhaust-producing buses must be put on the road as a result of SkyTrain extension cancellations or delays.

SkyTrain is the best transportation option available, especially environmentally. Commendable is the soon-to-come automated-rail Canada Line, connecting Richmond, the Airport and Vancouver.

And ALRT, unlike non-automated Light Rail Transit, will not negatively affect the flow of already-congested traffic, for SkyTrain's rail runs are all elevated and underground, and do not force road-vehicular traffic to a hault along SkyTrain's routes.

Here in the GVRD, research/polls reveal that what drivers - especially the Single Occupant Vehicle drivers - expect most of public transit in order for them to leave their cars at home, was the stipulation that the public transit be convenient and fast - both of which are the SkyTrain concept's prime aspects.

Frank G. Sterle Jr., White Rock

http://www2.canada.com/langleyadvance/news/letters/story.html?id=2c476cd4-bc3a-4b82-b62c-0dffec71acb2

I don't see this article is related to Langley. can someone figure out what it is related to Langley please?

[Whalleyboy]

if surrey doesnt get its extension what would be the hopes of langley getting the skytrain.

thats the only way i can see it relate to them

[SpongeG]

it was written to the Langley newspaper - maybe the author wrote it to every paper and they are the only ones who printed it

[metroXpress]

^ I think I read the same thing in the Surrey Now as well. I know that the press sometimes share the articles/letters around...since these are all under Canwest.

[Gordon]

The Bus Driver's Union has a website www.morebusesnow.com that says Translink could get 100 used buses from California and have them in servce in months which would partially alieviate the 500 bus shortage.
It also says that 58% of Monteal's & Toronto's bus routes hae hedways of 10minutes or less whereas Vancouver has only 12% of it's routes with those heasways.

I think if all routes servicing Suburban Skytrain stations had these headways that would be a good start

Another way to get more buses on the road would be to not retire the the vehicles that the replacement buses will be replacing.

[djh]

Another way to get more buses on the road would be to not retire the the vehicles that the replacement buses will be replacing.

If the buses were in good enough condition to stay in service, they wouldn't be designated for retirement, so that's not a very practical suggestion.

[Gordon]

I Think Translink wants an al low-floor fleet, I've heard comments from bus drivers over the last couple of years wondering why some of the buses are being retired when they felt the vehilces were still usable.

[DKaz]

No, I think some buses are retired prematurely. Mind you there might be a good reason, old buses may be prone to breaking down causing a PR nightmare for Translink, but man were the old GM fishbowls for example ever workhorses. I wonder if they're just not building new buses like they used to.

[nname]

The older the bus it is, the more maintenance cost it requires. At some point in time, it would be cheaper just to get a new one than keeping the bus in service. For instance, when a bus that breaks down often, you lost revenue due to the lost in service, need extra bus and drive for back up, and then more cost to fix it. I don't know how much money it will actually save from getting an old bus that can be used for a few year compared to just getting a new one and use them much longer.

[WarrenC12]

Where do people come up with a number like "500 more buses". Sorry but the bus drivers' union doesn't exactly sound like an objective source.

I know certain routes are super busy (99, 20), but 500 buses?

[nname]

The Bus Driver's Union has a website www.morebusesnow.com that says Translink could get 100 used buses from California and have them in servce in months which would partially alieviate the 500 bus shortage.

Maybe I should point out how they can play with the numbers. The plan states that Translink should have the bus fleet size of 1600, but the site says that CMBC currently have 1100 bus on the road during peak hours. Those numbers are very different. Currently, CMBC have a fleet size of around 1380, and when you add West Van and shuttle contractor, you end up with around 1490. This number will grow to around 1630 by the end of this year. So this is certainly much less than 500 buses short. But then I agree, more bus would be nice.

[Gordon]

I think Translink's had a 5 year service plan that said the wanted to expand the fleet to 1600 buses by 2006 or 07or there abouts, right now we are just over 1100 buses.

[DKaz]

Where do people come up with a number like "500 more buses". Sorry but the bus drivers' union doesn't exactly sound like an objective source.

I know certain routes are super busy (99, 20), but 500 buses?

I think a lot of the buses would be allocated to the suburbs, especially South of Fraser which could use a few hundred buses, Pitt Meadows, Maple Ridge, Richmond. Surrey has about the same density as Edmonton but less than 50% of the bus service.

[The_Henry_Man]

Somewhat not related, but I'm now at Phoenix, AZ for 6 days. I've just taken the light rail an hour ago. Man, we're doing very good in Vancouver in terms of transit and urban planning, despite our numerous shortfalls. The time I spent in downtime Phoenix, even at arond 1630h, the streetscape is essentially dead, with very little cars and almost no pedestrians. It was SO quiet. The downtown comprised pretty much of two stadiums, a few business towers and the convention centre (I'm there for a work-related conference). There's almost no retail stores at all, apart from a few buildings.

I was talking to another guy who lives around this area, and he told me the light rail system was built to encourage more people living around the railway, but so far I think it's been a total failure. There's one condo (it's quite West Coast looking) in the downtown area in which ONLY 10 people current live in there. The places that light rail goes through are pretty much dump, apart from Arizona State University. The city is so sprawled out that it's hard to imagine. Added to the effects of the economy, Phoenix is almost a dead city nowadays. People are literally talking about 20-30miles each when they were talking about different places, even malls etc. Throughout the entire light rail line, I couldn't even see a mall even with a size of Lougheed Mall.

So enjoy with what we have in Vancouver, guys!!!

PS- More to come with my experience with the light rail system later.

[Whalleyboy]

I think a lot of the buses would be allocated to the suburbs, especially South of Fraser which could use a few hundred buses, Pitt Meadows, Maple Ridge, Richmond. Surrey has about the same density as Edmonton but less than 50% of the bus service.

Bus service blows big time in surrey
i remember when i lost my license and had to use the bus
ever since then i've behaved to keep my license so i dont need to deal with buses again

[racc]

Where do people come up with a number like "500 more buses". Sorry but the bus drivers' union doesn't exactly sound like an objective source.

You are right. I'm sure passing by people in the rain because your bus is jampacked makes you not an bjective source. Just try taking the bus during rush hour.

[nname]

It also says that 58% of Monteal's & Toronto's bus routes hae hedways of 10minutes or less whereas Vancouver has only 12% of it's routes with those heasways.

I was bored after missing my connection, so I counted the headway table posted at the station. The minimum of 15min headway is achieved by 94/206 routes = 46% during AM peak and 91/206 = 44% during PM peak (I have excluded #242 and all night bus from the total). But this number doesn't take into account all the obvious interlining eg. 160/190, 211/292, 259/C12, 316/391, 321/394, 345/375, 602/603/604, 606/C86, 608/C88, etc. that would most likely be counted as a single route by Toronto's numbering scheme. And I'm not even sure if a route like 292 and C90 would even counted as a regular bus route.. they are more like "specials".

[Locked In]

Column: Subway to UBC still a financial pipe dream

By Miro Cernetig, Vancouver Sun columnist - May 24, 2009 6:37 PM

One of the next big megaplans the provincial government is contemplating is tunneling a subway under Vancouver’s west side, stretching from near City Hall to the University of British Columbia. It’s a bold, forward-looking idea that will cost $3 billion.

But it’s also an idea far too ahead of its time.

The government — and its public transit agency, TransLink — needs to be looking in the other direction when it comes to public transit. The next major infusion of public transit money needs to be directed toward the outskirts of Metro Vancouver, where a population boom is underway that will transform the city.

But first, let’s get back to that $3-billion tunnel through Vancouver’s west side to the University of British Columbia.

It’s hard not to like a pipe dream like this. In theory it will take thousands of cars off the roads, we’d get rid of the crowding on buses and perhaps stimulate higher-density condo building. It will supposedly help reduce our carbon footprint.

Here’s a little-heard reality check, though.

Aside from the occasionally stop-and-go traffic on Broadway between Cambie and Granville streets, there are no real traffic jams out to the university. Vancouver’s west side is a slow-growth area when compared to the other areas of Metro Vancouver.

A subway to UBC is also a questionable economic deal.

Let’s suppose 100,000 people would use that $3-billion rail line — a ridership figure far, far in the future. If it was financed at five per cent a year for 30 years, the actual construction cost to the taxpayer would be $5.8 billion.

That means about $58,000 per rider. Put another way, those 100,000 riders would have to ride the rails every day, seven days a week, for $5 apiece, for more than 30 years to pay down the investment. And that wouldn’t even begin to pay for the system’s operating costs.

But aside from the humongous bill, it’s the population growth statistics that don’t support this megaproject.

Metro Vancouver’s population was estimated at 2.2 million people in 2006. By 2031, 25 years from now, the population will grow to 3.2 million. That’s about a 45-per-cent increase.

But you have to ask yourself where that growth will be. It’s certainly not spread out equally. And it’s not going to be on Vancouver’s expensive west side.

Statistics show the City of Vancouver, which would be the biggest beneficiary of the UBC rail line, will grow from a population of 607,000 to 709,000 by 2031. That’s a modest 17-per-cent increase.

Contrast that to Abbotsford, Coquitlam, Langley Township and Surrey. According to an analysis from the office of Surrey Mayor Dianne Watts, those four “high-growth-communities” will grow collectively at a rate of approximately 20,800 people per year, meaning an additional 520,000 by the year 2031.

The current population of those communities in 2006 was about 770,000. It will reach 1.29 million people by 2031. That means a 67-per-cent boost in population.

It means in less than a generation, we will have the equivalent of Canada’s fourth-largest city sitting on the edge of Metro Vancouver. That means more cars, more traffic jams and more greenhouse gas emissions that will erode our standard of living.

Yet there’s little talk amongst our megaplanners of extending a rapid-rail system out to those fast-growing communities.

But ask them these questions: Should the City of Vancouver — which will grow by 17 per cent in 2031 — get a $3-billion public-transit rail line? Or should we be thinking of putting that public infrastructure in an area growing four times faster than the City of Vancouver and save us from turning into Los Angeles north?

mcernetig@vancouversun.com
© Copyright (c) The Vancouver Sun

Source: Vancouver Sun (http://www.vancouversun.com/Column+Subway+plan+still+pipe+dream/1626432/story.html)

[Locked In]

Recession drives more commuters to ride the rails

By Kelly Sinoski and Doug Ward, Vancouver Sun - May 24, 2009 8:27 PM

http://a123.g.akamai.net/f/123/12465/1d/www.vancouversun.com/business/fp/recession+drives+more+commuters+ride+rails/1626341/1626342.bin
Monthly passes for the West Coast Express are on the rise as commuters leave their cars behind.
Photograph by: Ian Smith, Vancouver Sun


VANCOUVER — More long-haul commuters are buying monthly transit passes and riding the West Coast Express as they start to feel the squeeze of the recession.

At the same time, a decline in the number of vehicles on the road has contributed to a drop in claims for the Insurance Corporation of B.C. during the first quarter of 2009. ICBC spokesman Mark Jan Vrem said claims and related costs dropped to $735 million from $761 million compared with the same period in 2008.

“We are theorizing that the downturn in the economy means that people aren’t driving as much. Or they may have a second car and have decided not to insure and drive it,” Jan Vrem said.

TransLink spokesman Drew Snider said the number of two- and three-zone fare cards sold in the first three months of this year rose by five per cent and two per cent respectively over 2008, while sales of concession cards jumped by 10 per cent. (Concession fares are available for students, seniors and people with disabilities.)

Although ridership numbers have remained flat or dipped on buses and SkyTrain so far this year, Snider said the West Coast Express posted a 4.8-per-cent increase in passengers during the first quarter.

This, along with the boost in fare card sales, shows more people are committed to taking public transit, especially on longer journeys, he said.

The rise in concession card sales also indicates more seniors are trying “to pull in their horns where they can.”

Although Snider said it was too early to say whether the economy triggered the boost in fare card sales, he concedes it’s more than likely, noting that commuters typically turn to transit when gas prices go up or it costs more to drive.

Passenger trips rose to 302.4 million last year, up 2.9 per cent from a year earlier.

“With the economy, they’re trying to get the best deal they can and monthly fare cards are a great deal,” Snider said. “It probably has a lot to do with the economy, but we can’t say that [with certainty] right now.”

BC Ferries is also feeling the effects of the recession, with passenger numbers down four per cent and vehicle traffic down 4.9 per cent for March and April, while the May long weekend was flat.

Meanwhile, ICBC said the drop in claims helped the auto insurance provider post strong financial results for this year’s first three months despite the economic problems. Net income for the first quarter was $117 million, up from $102 million for the same period in 2008.

“We are pleased with our financial results given the tough economic times we are all experiencing,” ICBC president and CEO Jon Schubert said in a media statement.

“In particular, the continuing decline in the number and cost of injury claims is good news for our customers.

“Good weather and improved claims-handling procedures have benefited our customers and had a positive impact on our net income.”

The economic downturn has also caused premiums to decline to $843 million from January to March of this year compared to $860 million in the first quarter of 2008 as fewer people bought insurance.

ICBC’s investment income for the first quarter was $123 million, about the same as the same period in 2008. The majority of its portfolio is invested in high-quality bonds.

ICBC’s Schubert said the agency’s financial strength means that it will be able to reduce optional rates for 2009 by an average of three per cent, effective Oct. 1, while keeping basic rates the same for the year.

ksinoski@vancouversun.com

dward@vancouversun.com
© Copyright (c) The Vancouver Sun

Source: Vancouver Sun (http://www.vancouversun.com/business/fp/Recession+drives+more+commuters+ride+rails/1626341/story.html)

[ravman]

and we still see govt inaction on improving transit....

[CBeats]

and we still see govt inaction on improving transit....

No, the Canada Line is opening in 3 months.

[red-paladin]

I saw new signage being installed at Waterfront Station.
I think it is the same kind as the Canada line

[rather_draconian]

I agree with Miro Cernetig there...I don't think tunneling through a low growth, low density area makes much sense. I'm all for tunneling to Burrard or Arbutus, then bus west from there. That would save a ridiculous amount of money.

[Gordon]

I think that that alot of the overloads problems on the #99 can be dealt with by finally getting the B Line alon 41st ave going.

One thing that could be done with the UBC line it could be phased in . Tunnel all the way to UBC but maybe only thave the track only as far Arbutus which wold allow funds to be deployed in other parts of the system, and also that way they could gauge the ridership and if a line is really needed all the way to UBC.

[WarrenC12]

You are right. I'm sure passing by people in the rain because your bus is jampacked makes you not an bjective source. Just try taking the bus during rush hour.

Are you trying to be sarcastic? I didn't say more buses weren't needed. I'm sure a few choice routes could benefit from extra buses with service every 7 mins instead of every 10 during rush hour for example, but my point was "500 extra buses" seemed to be a number pulled from the sky.

[WarrenC12]

and we still see govt inaction on improving transit....

Did you miss the $14b plan unveiled last year?

What is the NDP doing about improving transit? Oh that's right, nothing, because they weren't elected. :notacrook: