[NetMapel]

The Arbutus line needs to be preserved for some kind of long-distance heavy rail for the greater metro region. Also, I really don't see why people traveling to UBC needs to make an arbitrary connection from skytrain to street cars at Arbutus when they should ride skytrain all the way.

[WBC]

The Arbutus line needs to be preserved for some kind of long-distance heavy rail for the greater metro region. Also, I really don't see why people traveling to UBC needs to make an arbitrary connection from skytrain to street cars at Arbutus when they should ride skytrain all the way.

Train to Victoria when we build the bridge?

[SpongeG]

The Arbutus line needs to be preserved for some kind of long-distance heavy rail for the greater metro region. Also, I really don't see why people traveling to UBC needs to make an arbitrary connection from skytrain to street cars at Arbutus when they should ride skytrain all the way.

this idea give them 3 options - three transfer points

if people are stupid enough to live in surrey and attend UBC they desreve a 2 hour commute

[mrjauk]

Yes indeed. Long distance travel needs to be fast and un-interupted. That's the only way people will take public transit for long-distance travel. Otherwise, people will just drive because it'll be significantly faster. People take the WCE, Canada Line and the old Skytrain line because they're fast enough that people are willing to forgo a little bit of time saved for the convenience of not worrying about parking and other headaches related to driving.

If they build a WCE for the south of Fraser region, I can guarantee you that it'll be a smash hit. Park and rides here are always parked to the max so imagine having a WCE instead.

I agree that we should try to bring in at least two more Commuter Rail lines as quickly as is feasible. One that begins somewhere in Langley and one that begins in White Rock. The Langley train would end up at the CN Terminal on Main Street while the White Rock train could go to Waterfront via Arbutus. I realize that the latter is more speculative at this point given the lack of infrastructure and that it would compete somewhat with the Canada Line, but within 10 years maybe?

[NetMapel]

this idea give them 3 options - three transfer points

if people are stupid enough to live in surrey and attend UBC they desreve a 2 hour commute

What do you mean by 3 transfer points ? I just think, with post-secondaries as expensive as it is, it's not hard to imagine students choose to stay at home while they attend UBC. Nobody "deserves" to have to such a long commute, they just put up with it one way or another. Besides, skytrain all the way to UBC benefits everybody in the region who take the M-line, not just the people from Surrey.

Also, preserving the Arbutus line for a true heavy rail (WCE-style or HSR) is important for the growth of the Vancouver region as well. More people from further places can come to Vancouver to spend and work could only mean a more vibrant downtown.

I agree that we should try to bring in at least two more Commuter Rail lines as quickly as is feasible. One that begins somewhere in Langley and one that begins in White Rock. The Langley train would end up at the CN Terminal on Main Street while the White Rock train could go to Waterfront via Arbutus. I realize that the latter is more speculative at this point given the lack of infrastructure and that it would compete somewhat with the Canada Line, but within 10 years maybe?
Yes, that's what I would like. I don't even think the line needs to go all the way to White Rock. I think a main station at South Surrey's Park and Ride is good enough. That place is always packed now.

[twoNeurons]

Also, preserving the Arbutus line for a true heavy rail (WCE-style or HSR) is important for the growth of the Vancouver region as well. More people from further places can come to Vancouver to spend and work could only mean a more vibrant downtown.


I'm not sure Arbutus is the best route, but it's fairly convenient.

For intercity, a dedicated new route up 176th and then along the #1 highway and Grandview corridor would probably be more efficient and face less opposition.

This would also involve commuter trains and HSR to Chilliwack... and to Kelowna/Kamloops one day.

[Metro-One]

:previous: That is my dream there, to have the Kamloops / Kelowna areas linked to the lower mainland via HSR. That would better assert them as Vancouver's hinterland and not Calgary's. That area has had a huge Albertan influence of late, it needs a little more west coast influx to balance it out. Also, commuter rail should extend at least to Abbotsford south of the river in the Valley




this idea give them 3 options - three transfer points

if people are stupid enough to live in surrey and attend UBC they desreve a 2 hour commute

Unfortunately not everyone's life is 2 dimensional. Many stay at home while at school because the cost of living on campus is far to high, others might choose to live close to work, while having to do a long commute to school. Life is generally not as simple as the "rail for the valley" people and the so called "transit experts" at UBC imagine it to be.

And most importantly, Merry Christmas everyone!

[NetMapel]

Well I did notice that there is the old train line that goes from Waterfront, Pacific Station, and follows the Millennium Line down to Surrey. That line can be used to go to both South Surrey, Langley and Abbotsford. The WCE line can go southward from to Abbotsford as well so both lines will meet there, thus setting Abbotsford up as a rising power in the region. From Abbotsford, then can go eastward o Kelowna and Kamloops separately. These lines need to be FAST though, in order for them to work.

[SpongeG]

:previous: That is my dream there, to have the Kamloops / Kelowna areas linked to the lower mainland via HSR. That would better assert them as Vancouver's hinterland and not Calgary's. That area has had a huge Albertan influence of late, it needs a little more west coast influx to balance it out. Also, commuter rail should extend at least to Abbotsford south of the river in the Valley






Unfortunately not everyone's life is 2 dimensional. Many stay at home while at school because the cost of living on campus is far to high, others might choose to live close to work, while having to do a long commute to school. Life is generally not as simple as the "rail for the valley" people and the so called "transit experts" at UBC imagine it to be.

And most importantly, Merry Christmas everyone!

well they suck :haha: no pity

[SpongeG]

and don't take it f'ing seriously

i'm just being as ass play along

[dreambrother808]

:previous: That is my dream there, to have the Kamloops / Kelowna areas linked to the lower mainland via HSR. That would better assert them as Vancouver's hinterland and not Calgary's. That area has had a huge Albertan influence of late, it needs a little more west coast influx to balance it out.

I spent last year in Alberta, and am currently spending this year in the Okanagan. The Kelowna area is most definitely not Calgary's hinterland. People from here rarely go to Alberta, whereas they go to the Coast all the time. What you find here are a lot of Albertan tourists or transplants, that's about it. You can tell how happy both types of people are to not currently be in Alberta. :haha: This area feels very much like "BC" to me, the people, their attitudes, etc. It's a more redneck version than Vancouver at times, but still happier, more relaxed, open-minded, and tolerant of diverse opinions than my sense of people in Edmonton.

As for an HSR, it's a nice idea but could you imagine how expensive that would be to build out to this area, through all of that terrain? The Okanagan will continue to grow, naturally, but when would it reach a population capable of justifying such an expenditure?

It's a beautiful place with a lot to offer, but I miss Vancouver so much. Hopefully, I'll be making the move back sometime this year.

[Rusty Gull]

The Okanagan is a true hybrid of Vancouver and Calgary, in my opinion. The lifestyle is decidedly West Coast, but the politics are Albertan all the way.

Unfortunately, HSR from either metro to K-town is a non-starter because of the cost of building it through mountainous terrain. I believe Via runs from Vancouver to Kamloops, but it is not very practical.

I like Kelowna, it's a nice place to visit. But the sprawl is awful, and being in a valley in the winter is depressing. There's nothing like a blazing hot Okanagan summer though, especially if you live close to the lake or have a boat!

[SpongeG]

Two different bus journeys

Editor:

Re: TransLink priorities off the rails, Dec. 2 letters.

I’ve been using the transit service lately from White Rock to Terminal Avenue in Downtown Vancouver, and I’ve been pleasantly surprised.

I’m not a regular transit user, but I’ve found the service on the 351 bus and the new Canada Line train to be top-notch and flawless. The buses are clean, comfortable, warm and friendly, and the SkyTrain from Richmond to Downtown Vancouver is a breeze, quick and easy.

I doubt I’ll ever drive my car Downtown again. This transit service is superb. Aside from saving money on parking, gas and traffic snarls, I’m saving time and relaxing en route. From what I’ve seen and experienced, it’s better than most and well-worth using.

One criticism, though, would be the lack of toilets anywhere around the stops. Where are the cans? Toilets are good things to have.

TransLink, keep up the great service!

Larry Marko, Surrey

• • •

My daughter works at a high-end hotel Downtown Vancouver.

She mostly works evening shifts, and on more than one occasion has been on the Canada Line trying to meet up with the bus at the Bridgeport Station to Crescent Beach at 11:50 p.m.

Unfortunately the bus schedules do not seem to work in conjunction with the SkyTrain, as the bus leaves just as the train is coming in.

Keeping in mind that at this hour the buses run just once an hour, the evenings – besides being dark and unsettling – are freezing.

My daughter chooses to wait inside the door of the casino, as it is warm and there is a lot of security. She can also keep an eye on the clock, so as not to miss the next bus.

Lo and behold, 12:40 arrives so she goes out to catch the 12:50 bus – only to watch the back end of it as it leaves too early.

After speaking to two RCMP officers at the station, they said they’d had other complaints regarding the same thing.

Would it be a no-brainer for the bus driver to watch as the trains come in, and then wait to see if someone is trying to catch the bus? How about not leaving before the scheduled time?

...

http://www.bclocalnews.com/opinion/letters/80065732.html

[NetMapel]

The #351 is really good when you are part of the standard commute, AKA going to downtown or Richmond in the morning and coming back to White Rock in the early evening. However, if you are are not part of the commute time or come home really late, then it starts becoming a hassle real quick.

[SpongeG]

What do you mean by 3 transfer points ? I just think, with post-secondaries as expensive as it is, it's not hard to imagine students choose to stay at home while they attend UBC. Nobody "deserves" to have to such a long commute, they just put up with it one way or another. Besides, skytrain all the way to UBC benefits everybody in the region who take the M-line, not just the people from Surrey.

Also, preserving the Arbutus line for a true heavy rail (WCE-style or HSR) is important for the growth of the Vancouver region as well. More people from further places can come to Vancouver to spend and work could only mean a more vibrant downtown.


Yes, that's what I would like. I don't even think the line needs to go all the way to White Rock. I think a main station at South Surrey's Park and Ride is good enough. That place is always packed now.

there was a plan done i think with the tyee that showed the streetcar network that could be built with the money that is needed for the UBC extension - it showed three street car lines going into UBC one from broadway, one from 41st and 70th i beleive it was that was just the east-west lines - there were also a few north south lines that could be done

i'd rather have more overall streetcar than a sibgle UBC extension myself - but i agree regional fast is needed but vancouver is not in need of regional streetcar can handle what is needed now imo

[Zassk]

^ But we already have buses running on those routes, which have just as good speed, reliability and capacity as a streetcar... and are much more flexible in terms of logistics.

A streetcar is only interesting if it fills a need or a route that buses can't provide. What would we accomplish by just replacing the UBC bus routes with three streetcar lines? Nothing.

The last thing UBC needs is to swap one low-grade transit service with another low-grade transit service. UBC needs an upgrade in capacity and speed, that is the whole point.

Put streetcars where they will have a positive impact on short-distance travel. For the longer, highest demand routes like UBC, something bigger is needed.

[nname]

there was a plan done i think with the tyee that showed the streetcar network that could be built with the money that is needed for the UBC extension - it showed three street car lines going into UBC one from broadway, one from 41st and 70th i beleive it was that was just the east-west lines - there were also a few north south lines that could be done

i'd rather have more overall streetcar than a sibgle UBC extension myself - but i agree regional fast is needed but vancouver is not in need of regional streetcar can handle what is needed now imo

You really believe that many lines can be built with that money? I'm pretty sure those number were determined using the ideal case (ie. existing ROW, no utility relocation, no demand similar to Broadway, excluding trains, etc.) I remembered the cost/km they proposed is something like 15M~20M/km. The recent streetcar construction in St. Clair in Toronto, which satisfies all 4 conditions above, turns out to be around 15M/km. For Broadway corridor, would you think the project would come anywhere close to 15M/km with all the utility relocation (dig the street out?), ROW issues (property acquisition? street reconstruction?), and demands (lots of train required)? It would be lucky if we can even get 4 streetcar lines or 2 LRT lines with the cost of UBC skytrain.

[SpongeG]

You really believe that many lines can be built with that money? I'm pretty sure those number were determined using the ideal case (ie. existing ROW, no utility relocation, no demand similar to Broadway, excluding trains, etc.) I remembered the cost/km they proposed is something like 15M~20M/km. The recent streetcar construction in St. Clair in Toronto, which satisfies all 4 conditions above, turns out to be around 15M/km. For Broadway corridor, would you think the project would come anywhere close to 15M/km with all the utility relocation (dig the street out?), ROW issues (property acquisition? street reconstruction?), and demands (lots of train required)? It would be lucky if we can even get 4 streetcar lines or 2 LRT lines with the cost of UBC skytrain.

they did the numbers not me don't shoot the messenger

personally i think building a university in the hinterlands was a stupid move to begin with :haha:

I think more people other than the UBC would like more transit options thats all

carry on

[tybuilding]

this idea give them 3 options - three transfer points

if people are stupid enough to live in surrey and attend UBC they desreve a 2 hour commute

I commuted from Surrey. Not everyone can afford to live away from their parents while they go to school.

My shortest was 1 hr 15 min including driving to the Scott Road park and ride from Fleetwood, skytrain, UBC non stop bus from Broadway and Commercial

[Spork]

However, you can afford to choose a university closer to where you live. E.g. SFU. My friend commuted from White Rock to SFU Burnaby for 5 years - he turned out fine. It is the perfect time to read your books, study, or relax.

[hollywoodnorth]

I remember a while back Translink said that the downtown Expo line tunnels would get cell phone coverage.

did that happen? or is it happening? I think there was a RFP put out, etc

[deasine]

I remember a while back Translink said that the downtown Expo line tunnels would get cell phone coverage.

did that happen? or is it happening? I think there was a RFP put out, etc

I get signal now =P

[Spork]

I get signal now =P

What you say?!?!

[NetMapel]

Can you hear me now !?

[Spork]

Can you hear me now !?

Incorrect. The correct response would have been:

Main screen turn on.

[Zassk]

However, you can afford to choose a university closer to where you live. E.g. SFU. My friend commuted from White Rock to SFU Burnaby for 5 years - he turned out fine. It is the perfect time to read your books, study, or relax.

The rapid transit system should be serving both universities; it already serves the much smaller SFU and Langara campuses, and a whole host of lower priority destinations. In terms of priority commuter destinations, there isn't much in the region that matches or beats UBC. We already know this from the bus situation. It should not even be up for debate, if you ask me: anyone who accesses the Skytrain network should be able to reach Broadway commercial district and UBC efficiently, regardless of their distance. It's a perfectly reasonable destination regardless of which station you're starting at.

[Conrad Yablonski]

Does anyone know if trolleys will be running down the Granville Mall?

Because it looks almost finished and I don't see any trolley wires.

TIA.

[satishreddy]

Does anyone know if trolleys will be running down the Granville Mall?

Because it looks almost finished and I don't see any trolley wires.

TIA.

I believe that trolley wires will be put in place after the Olympics. Can't remember where I read this.

Satish

[WarrenC12]

The date I saw was Oct 2010 for trolleys back on Granville.

[The_Henry_Man]

The date I saw was Oct 2010 for trolleys back on Granville.

WHAT??? Why not during the Summer of 2010? I think it should talk that long to put up new trolley wires, especially if they plan on doing it right after the Olympics.

[officedweller]

At least it'll provide for a summer of street closures...

[officedweller]

Check out these Seattle Sound Transit signs.
The overall sign looks a bit "Disney" but I think the "T" itself is nicer than ours.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/viriyincy/tags/soundtransit/

Pics by Oran Viriyincy from Flickr

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4024/4220489410_d7795a8094.jpg
http://www.flickr.com/photos/viriyincy/4220489410/in/pool-1110054@N24

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2661/4220490590_7ae5971a88.jpg
http://www.flickr.com/photos/viriyincy/4220490590/in/pool-1110054@N24

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2428/3802249536_7e802ec28f.jpg
http://www.flickr.com/photos/viriyincy/3802249536/in/pool-1110054@N24

[dleung]

Good God. And I thought our T signs are derivative... at least they don't look retarded.

One of my favs is the one in Oporto, Portugal:
http://mic-ro.com/metro/images/oporto/porto-metro-sign-500.jpg

[nova9]

Good God. And I thought our T signs are derivative... at least they don't look retarded.

One of my favs is the one in Oporto, Portugal:
http://mic-ro.com/metro/images/oporto/porto-metro-sign-500.jpg

The seattle signs also look like lego. It's ridiculous and a sign that they still just don't quite 'get' it.

[agrant]

Better than nothing, as they say...

[Zassk]

However, I love that the Seattle 'T' has a rail logo and an airport logo beside it. Those are good indicators. Imagine if you saw those logos beside a 'T' at Georgia and Granville; just about any tourist would understand what that means.

[officedweller]

There are actually some "Canada Line" signs with an airplane logo scattered around the downtown (no train though)

[deasine]

There are actually some "Canada Line" signs with an airplane logo scattered around the downtown (no train though)

Not from what I know. The sign goes something like:

[SkyTrain] -> [Airplane]
Canada Line Airport

Where [SkyTrain] is the icon used for indcicating SkyTrain Lines.

If they build the signs to these specifications, I like ours a lot more.
http://buzzer.translink.ca/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/02-alternatemarker.jpg
Image Via Buzzer Blog (http://buzzer.translink.ca/index.php/2009/12/look-out-for-the-big-t-new-transit-station-markers-are-here/)

[CLC]

End of the strike...


A strike involving 500 Handy Dart workers in Metro Vancouver may soon be ending after more than two months of picketing.

Tim Johnston, vice-president of the Amalgamated Transit Union's Local 1724, said the union began taking down its picket lines on Thursday morning, after the union and employer MVT Canadian Bus agreed to binding arbitration.

"We were in mediation yesterday [Wednesday] with Vince Ready. We came to the resolution that … we were open to binding arbitration, and the company agreed, and so the matter is in Vince Ready's hands right now," said Johnston.

It will take about a week to get back to full service levels, said Johnston.

Key issues in the negotiations included pension benefits and the treatment of casual employees, and union members had already rejected at least two contract offers.

The HandyDart service provides door-to-door public transit around B.C. for people with mobility problems, but the dispute applies only to union workers in the Metro Vancouver area.

During the strike, HandyDart has only been offering essential services for patients needing renal dialysis and cancer treatments.

[nova9]

Not from what I know. The sign goes something like:

[SkyTrain] -> [Airplane]
Canada Line Airport

Where [SkyTrain] is the icon used for indcicating SkyTrain Lines.

If they build the signs to these specifications, I like ours a lot more.
http://buzzer.translink.ca/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/02-alternatemarker.jpg
Image Via Buzzer Blog (http://buzzer.translink.ca/index.php/2009/12/look-out-for-the-big-t-new-transit-station-markers-are-here/)

These are far superior. No need for faux-futuristic that only harkens back to when people wished fr jetsons-esque flying cars.

A mark of a maturing and sophisticated transportation system.

[officedweller]

Not from what I know. The sign goes something like:

[SkyTrain] -> [Airplane]
Canada Line Airport

Where [SkyTrain] is the icon used for indcicating SkyTrain Lines.

I could be wrong on there not being a train logo - haven't seen one for a while.

[CLC]

I could be wrong on there not being a train logo - haven't seen one for a while.

deasine's description is 100% correct. One such sign locates just outside the City Centre station.

[Locked In]

New transit signage at Stadium station:

http://lh3.ggpht.com/_9FW9P3-u1EI/S0GGMsW3DiI/AAAAAAAACEI/VIJYA4KCWF8/s800/IMG_0942.JPG

http://lh3.ggpht.com/_9FW9P3-u1EI/S0GGR9fieMI/AAAAAAAACEM/Fu73MZLETpQ/s800/IMG_0943.JPG

(my photos, taken tonight)

[deasine]

I noticed the new signage too. It's really big and it doesn't look like it's backlit sadly enough.

[djh]

I noticed the new signage too. It's really big and it doesn't look like it's backlit sadly enough.

D'OH!

[Overground]

I posted this a few pages back. Jhenifer at Buzzer blog said this -

For the hardware that will be installed at in downtown Vancouver later this month, the new station entrance name signs (at Expo/Millennium Line stations) will be lit.
Most of the T beacons in downtown Vancouver, however, will not be illuminated at first because we have yet to secure agreement on where we’ll be allowed to draw the power from in most cases, and there are some issues with conversion of voltage to be resolved depending on the power source. It’s more complicated than a person might think. We’re working towards resolution, but didn’t want these issues to hold up the installation in the meantime.

[deasine]

Well let's just hope they will be backlit soon. Waterfront has this new sign inside the station.

[GeeCee]

Do they really need backlighting when the last train runs at 1am or whenever the E/M lines shut down for the evening?

[twoNeurons]

Do they really need backlighting when the last train runs at 1am or whenever the E/M lines shut down for the evening?

I realize you're using sarcasm, but last time I checked, 1am is close to late night / early morning than evening

Even on the longest day of the year, it's dark for longer than 4 hours... which is approximately how long train service is suspended each night.

[WarrenC12]

Somebody from "Rail for the Valley" is on CKNW with Bill Good right now. So far he sounds logical, advocating for LRT in Surrey going South/East. :cheers:

Oh wait.. he just quoted the Vancouver Streetcar as costing $8M... vs Skytrain at $100M. :rolleyes:

$8M with free cars maybe... no OMC, and so on.

[Waders]

Oh wait.. he just quoted the Vancouver Streetcar as costing $8M... vs Skytrain at $100M. :rolleyes:

$8M with free cars maybe... no OMC, and so on.

The Vancouver Streetcar is a demo. project. It just doesn't make sense to compare it with Skytrain.

[trofirhen]

à propos . . . . do the Sytrain cars still have names like "Spirit of Vanderhoof" painted on the side? Looking at the photos, I see the overall design has changed to Translink white with blue (correct)? But, I always thought that those "Spirit of ..." labels were a bit corny. Some people like them, I realize.

[twoNeurons]

I like it as a way to identify each car but they are only on the original MkI cars. They stopped using the "spirit of..." labels when they went to the MkI½ cars .

I used to like seeing which City's car I was riding. It also raises awareness that these places exist... prompting people to look them up or at least be familiar with them, even those that spend their entire waking life inside the city. ( Some people are so sheltered )

It could be expanded to things like famous mountains and lakes.

It doesn't have to be "Spirit of..." but I like the idea.

[Axe]

Looks like the forum Nazi closed the canada line thread.....:(

[GeeCee]

deasine, you've ruined Christmas. :(

[jlousa]

Axe has been suspended for obvious reasons.
The Canada thread is closed, it was discussed why way back when it came into service. Feel free to talk about it here, do not talk about re-opening the thread ,it will not happen and will annoy the mods.

[Zassk]

Was there a general SkyTrain thread in the past that could be revived to include Canada Line discussion?

[mr.x]

I was on the new Mark II trains for the first time today....I quite like them and would prefer them anyday over the Rotem Canada Line trains. And the acceleration/deceleration is incredible.

[deasine]

I was on the new Mark II trains for the first time today....I quite like them and would prefer them anyday over the Rotem Canada Line trains. And the acceleration/deceleration is incredible.

One thing I don't understand is their stops. It's way more rough and abrupt compared to the older generation MKIIs, even compared to the Canada Line at times.

[mr.x]

One thing I don't understand is their stops. It's way more rough and abrupt compared to the older generation MKIIs, even compared to the Canada Line at times.

My theory is that it's because the Canada Line trains come into a stations with a slow crawl, possibly to reduce the likelihood of overshooting as there's little room for error with the platforms/train lengths being the same, while Translink has the Mark II's programmed to rush into the stations. The rough/abrupt difference might not be mechanical.

[Spork]

One thing I don't understand is their stops. It's way more rough and abrupt compared to the older generation MKIIs, even compared to the Canada Line at times.

I believe that this may be because of their length and wanting to be more efficient to keep their timings.

[red-paladin]

I think that the programmed motions for the trains could be improved. There are some rough stops, I agree. Also, I don't know why the southbound trains decelerate and then accelerate abruptly right before stopping at the southbound Commercial-Broadway platform. Hasn't anyone else felt that?

There are several other strange accelerations and decelerations across the system that don't appear to be as smooth as they could be.

[deasine]

While Canada Line trains slow down a bit before the platforms, it feels a lot slower because the platforms are also a lot slower. With the SkyTrain platforms, they are much longer, meaning they don't have to slow down that much to stop.

I think that the programmed motions for the trains could be improved. There are some rough stops, I agree. Also, I don't know why the southbound trains decelerate and then accelerate abruptly right before stopping at the southbound Commercial-Broadway platform. Hasn't anyone else felt that?

There are several other strange accelerations and decelerations across the system that don't appear to be as smooth as they could be.

I also noticed that with the MKIs and newer MKIIs. Many still loose their balance or are caught by surprise. It still doesn't explain the difference between the older generation MKIIs deceleration with the newer generation ones. I'm not going to compare it to a bus, but it feels like the trains just slam on the brakes just to make a complete stop.

If you go take a look at a few other metros, like the new London Underground Trains (I believe on the Piccadilly Line) and the newer DLR trains, their acceleration is incredibly fast and deceleration is fast but smooth.

[Waders]

One thing I don't understand is their stops. It's way more rough and abrupt compared to the older generation MKIIs, even compared to the Canada Line at times.

I noticed that too, especially with the new 4-cars MKII. Now the trains seem to slow down a lot just before entering some stations and slowly decelerate to a complete stop. It may be related to the total weight of the cars.

[lightrail]

While Canada Line trains slow down a bit before the platforms, it feels a lot slower because the platforms are also a lot slower. With the SkyTrain platforms, they are much longer, meaning they don't have to slow down that much to stop.



I also noticed that with the MKIs and newer MKIIs. Many still loose their balance or are caught by surprise. It still doesn't explain the difference between the older generation MKIIs deceleration with the newer generation ones. I'm not going to compare it to a bus, but it feels like the trains just slam on the brakes just to make a complete stop.

If you go take a look at a few other metros, like the new London Underground Trains (I believe on the Piccadilly Line) and the newer DLR trains, their acceleration is incredibly fast and deceleration is fast but smooth.

London tube trains run slower on most lines than Skytrain - it just feels fast because it is underground in small tunnels. The tube trains normally enter a station at 50km/h then use the length of the station to decelerate and stop. Train speeds underground are usually 50km/h to 60km/h - on older lines train speed are checked for tight turns. The Victoria Line has the fastest overall speed with train running around 80km/h due to no tight curves and stations spaced far apart. The fastest trains are on the Metropolitan express tracks north of Baker Street, with trains running at 115km/h.

[WarrenC12]

I was on the new Mark II trains for the first time today....I quite like them and would prefer them anyday over the Rotem Canada Line trains. And the acceleration/deceleration is incredible.

Hmmm, wait until you hear them with the A/C on. :D

I like the big front windows of the Rotem trains, and more spacious overall feel.

[allan_kuan]

About the sudden jerking while stopping on the new Mark II trains... I've felt that as well on the last few times that I have taken SkyTrain. You do wish they could somehow program it so that the ride would be more comforting... but I'm not sure if it's possible. There were a few cases last summer where the trains that I was in slammed on the brakes for a few incidents of computer crashing + skateboard on the trackway. The jerking to a stop may be a consequence of that... the train may not be just decelerating with the linear motor and it could be using all the brakes at the last second or two before it opens the doors.

At Commercial-Broadway Station, trains abruptly accelerate for a second at the southbound platform due to the new exit I believe... as it only started to occur when that opened. I think that the "stop" spot for the trains has also moved a little to the south... and for timing purposes they decided to have the trains take off a little after they finish the curve.

The difference from the new MKII and the old MKII may be more significant than we realize. Remember that in addition to the additional way-finding equipment (and the loud air conditioner) they also redid the linear motor. I'm not sure whether that may be causing some of our problems (or some other unknown redesigned component).

[trofirhen]

I like it as a way to identify each car but they are only on the original MkI cars. They stopped using the "spirit of..." labels when they went to the MkI½ cars .

I used to like seeing which City's car I was riding. It also raises awareness that these places exist... prompting people to look them up or at least be familiar with them, even those that spend their entire waking life inside the city. ( Some people are so sheltered )

It could be expanded to things like famous mountains and lakes.

It doesn't have to be "Spirit of..." but I like the idea.

I like your idea of using places and geographic features, too. It's that "Spirit of this and that" that struck me as hokey.

[deasine]

London tube trains run slower on most lines than Skytrain - it just feels fast because it is underground in small tunnels. The tube trains normally enter a station at 50km/h then use the length of the station to decelerate and stop. Train speeds underground are usually 50km/h to 60km/h - on older lines train speed are checked for tight turns. The Victoria Line has the fastest overall speed with train running around 80km/h due to no tight curves and stations spaced far apart. The fastest trains are on the Metropolitan express tracks north of Baker Street, with trains running at 115km/h.

Excuse me. I was actually referring to the Victoria Line, not Piccadilly. Sorry about that. But the point being, not about the overall general speed, but the way it accelerates and decelerates and its smoothness. This video really shows how quickly and smoothly these long trains accelerate and decelerate.

4Ev4JxSEj3s


At Commercial-Broadway Station, trains abruptly accelerate for a second at the southbound platform due to the new exit I believe... as it only started to occur when that opened. I think that the "stop" spot for the trains has also moved a little to the south... and for timing purposes they decided to have the trains take off a little after they finish the curve.

From what I recall, the sudden stop at Commercial-Broadway Station occurs with the old MKIs, newer MK IIs (less significant on the old MKIIs), ever since the Millennium Line opened. I think they wanted to slow down the trains before the turn, for one, so that on a really rainy day, water wouldn't gush down the Millennium Line tracks/Commercial ticket concourse area.

The difference from the new MKII and the old MKII may be more significant than we realize. Remember that in addition to the additional way-finding equipment (and the loud air conditioner) they also redid the linear motor. I'm not sure whether that may be causing some of our problems (or some other unknown redesigned component).

Good point about the linear motor. On the good side, the ride is quite a bit more quiet than the older MKIIs. I know the other cosmsetic additions, like the way-finding equipment (LED displays/LED maps) can be easily retrofired into the older MKIIs. But that's not going to happen anytime soon...

[WarrenC12]

From what I recall, the sudden stop at Commercial-Broadway Station occurs with the old MKIs, newer MK IIs (less significant on the old MKIIs), ever since the Millennium Line opened. I think they wanted to slow down the trains before the turn, for one, so that on a really rainy day, water wouldn't gush down the Millennium Line tracks/Commercial ticket concourse area.

Really? That sounds like a pretty hokey reason to me. I always thought the drainage was pretty good on the Skytrain tracks.


Good point about the linear motor. On the good side, the ride is quite a bit more quiet than the older MKIIs. I know the other cosmsetic additions, like the way-finding equipment (LED displays/LED maps) can be easily retrofired into the older MKIIs. But that's not going to happen anytime soon...

Yes the ride is a lot smoother. I'd say on par or better than the Canada Line. If that A/C issue is resolved before summer 2010, those will be the best ride in the city. :D

[deasine]

Really? That sounds like a pretty hokey reason to me. I always thought the drainage was pretty good on the Skytrain tracks.

I had a few times that happened to me on the Millennium Line, where the SkyTrain rushes ahead and pushes the water off the guideway and onto the road. Note, that's when it really rains hard.

[BCPhil]

My theory is that it's because the Canada Line trains come into a stations with a slow crawl, possibly to reduce the likelihood of overshooting as there's little room for error with the platforms/train lengths being the same, while Translink has the Mark II's programmed to rush into the stations. The rough/abrupt difference might not be mechanical.

I think that's true. I believe the Canada Line does enter the stations a lot slower compared to Skytrain. I think it has to do with depending on the friction of the brakes to actually stop the train. If it was moving faster, the chances of overshooting the stop point would be greater, especially in cold or wet conditions. The C-line trains do seem capable of accelerating and decelerating very quickly, but it's probably less reliable to be 100% consistent compared to Skytrain.

I think the LIM engine has that built in accuracy and reliability. C-Line trains depend on the Coefficient of friction of the track, wheels, and brakes, which can fluctuate. Skytrain LIM doesn't have such an external modifier that is variable (except maybe distance between the parts, which in a rail system is very constant and minimal, and the Electromagnetic field of the LIM actually lifts the train off the rails to achieve equilibrium).

[officedweller]

I've only taken the Canada Line a few times, but I did notice that some of the underground stations seem to be designed on a "rise" so that the natural uphill restistance provides part of the braking. I think this applies to Vancouver City Centre Station and to Yaletown Roundhouse Station. That could account for the "slower" entry into the stations.

[Alex Mackinnon]

Same deal also applies for the opposite directions though with the slope working against the brakes.

[Zassk]

I figure that the Canada Line trains are currently running on a very conservative travel configuration, just because the line is new. The trains go extremely slowly through any switches and even the slightest curves. I would hazard a guess that at least 2 minutes could be shaved off the end-to-end travel time if they gradually optimize the acceleration and deceleration in the future. As someone else mentioned, the trains are clearly capable of SkyTrain-like acceleration and deceleration, because there are a couple of spots where they do it. The Rotem trains travel fastest in some places you wouldn't expect, such as the single-track approaching Brighouse, and they go slower in some places where you'd expect them to maximize speed, such as the long straightaways on both sides of Aberdeen station.

[officedweller]

Probably schedule optimization, as others have mentioned. The slowdown near Aberdeen - is that only southbound? If so, it could be to prevent bunching at Brighouse.

[nname]

Maybe they'll change the timing next month, since the website says

SkyTrain Canada Line

Additional service Feb 12 – 28

Normal hours of operation. More frequent service throughout weekdays and weekday evenings to accommodate increased ridership. Additional trains will be available for use on weekends and to support the major events at Olympic venues.

So they'll put 18 trains in service to have 3min headways? Maybe they'll stay in service after the Olympics?

[SpongeG]

are there really going to be hour long waits during teh games to get on transit?

and do you really want to get free coffee from christians spreading their message?

according to global news translink is allowing some christian group to hand out coffee at stations during the games and spread their message...

this is not going to be pretty

[Yume-sama]

Yuck. I don't have anything against religious preaching, other than the fact that I hate ALL preaching.

Whether it be the annoying vegan friend who constantly tries to convert, or the enviro-hypocrites.

As for long lines, probably. Our cute little people mover Canada Line may not be able to handle demand after any major event.

[SpongeG]

also they will be setting up 15 stages across the city for performances of singing or dancing etc

the news raised the issue that how come they can do something but anti-olympic people are going to be shut out and shut down etc.

[Yume-sama]

also they will be setting up 15 stages across the city for performances of singing or dancing etc

the news raised the issue that how come they can do something but anti-olympic people are going to be shut out and shut down etc.

What do they want? A concert? Isn't it rather pointless to be anti-Olympic, now? What does that position accomplish?

I'm sure they will ruin a lot of these performances with their antics, as they have ruined family activities in the past.

[SpongeG]

i don't know its just the news why is the christian group being given so much freedom

and if you turn to global right bnow they are doing a story on vancouvers future skyline... what will it look like in 40 years ;)

[Yume-sama]

i don't know its just the news why is the christian group being given so much freedom

Probably because they aren't making little kids cry, and aren't likely to be violent :P

[cabotp]

Probably because they aren't making little kids cry, and aren't likely to be violent :P

I love the sarcasm in your post :)

[Zassk]

By extra trains, I assume they mean 18-20 trains. Let's see how big of a difference that makes. That is a big percentage increase over 14 trains currently. Also, some of the Canada Line's extra traffic will be concentrated on YVR trains, which currently are the trains that have the most available space. This might turn out ok....

The worst Canada Line conditions will be on days when there are simultaneous events at 1) oval 2) curling 3) GM place 4) UBC 5) victory ceremony 6) on a weekday. That won't happen every day, only on some days.

[mr.x]

By extra trains, I assume they mean 18-20 trains. Let's see how big of a difference that makes. That is a big percentage increase over 14 trains currently. Also, some of the Canada Line's extra traffic will be concentrated on YVR trains, which currently are the trains that have the most available space. This might turn out ok....

The worst Canada Line conditions will be on days when there are simultaneous events at 1) oval 2) curling 3) GM place 4) UBC 5) victory ceremony 6) on a weekday. That won't happen every day, only on some days.

Recall opening day, they realized 14 trains wouldn't be enough by 2 pm and put on 18-trains for 4 hours.

[Zassk]

Wednesday February 17th will probably be the worst day for the Canada Line (aside from the opening day, perhaps). Look at this schedule for events that are served by Canada Line, and how they are clumped around rush hour:

17 Wed
Curling 9:00 (5,600 seats)
Men's Hockey GMPlace 12:00 (19,300 seats)
Curling 14:00 (5,600 seats)
Women's Hockey UBC 14:30 (6,800 seats)
Oval 16:00 (7,600 seats)
Men's Hockey GMPlace 16:30 (19,300 seats)
Victory Ceremony BCPlace 18:30 (approx. 30,000 seats)
Curling 19:00 (5,600 seats)
Women's Hockey UBC 19:00 (6,800 seats)
Men's Hockey GMPlace 21:00 (19,300 seats)

Edit - the previous day, Tuesday, will probably be just as bad. While the oval event is earlier on Tuesday, the Victory Ceremony artist on Tuesday is the Barenaked Ladies, which will presumably draw a bigger crowd than other days. All other events are similar on Tues, Wed, and Thurs that week, and on the early days of the second week.

[mr.x]

^ Can you say gong show?


Forget using 18 trains, use all 20.

[Yume-sama]

You can't really get to UBC from the Canada Line, though :P

[CLC]

I think taking north-south bus routes, like artics route #3 & #8 would be good choice during Olympic to head to downtown/stadium.

[Zassk]

You can't really get to UBC from the Canada Line, though :P

No, but look at where the hotels are: downtown and near the airport. A large amount of people will be travelling to Broadway-UBC from either north or south.

[SpongeG]

well just remember while waiting in line for an hour two with your free cocoa you can be evangelized by the christian group - they will be wherever there is al ine up for transit

[DKaz]

Evangelists (and Baptists and Catholics, etc.) are least likely to publicly preach or convert or whatever. It's the Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses you have to worry about.

[Mac Write]

AddFare has been approved and will come into effect on Monday January 18, 2010. The rate has also been changed from $2.50 to $5.00 to leave Sea Island (no AddFare required to go to Sea Island). Also travel between Templeton and YVR is free. This only applies to cash fares. Pre-paid fares such as DayPasses, FareCards, FareSaver Tickets, U-Passes, Employer Passes and the BC Government Bus Pass Program are exempt. TVM's on Sea Island will automatically add the fare. If you have a one zone pre-paid ticket and upgrade at any of the Sea Island TVM's there will be no AddFare and "Airport" will be stamped on your FareSaver ticket. Click here for more information (http://www.translink.ca/en/About-TransLink/Media/2010/January/The-Canada-Line-YVR-Add-Fare-and-how-it-works.aspx)
http://buzzer.translink.ca/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/yvr-addfare-diagram.jpg

[Xerx]

cool, sounds acceptable to me

[officedweller]

That makes it much easier to administer.

[deasine]

Having it in the direction out of the airport makes much more sense and makes everyone's life easier. Now... I wonder how bus passes/U-Pass holders work...

[mr.x]

Good call by Translink, though i would prefer if it was simple a zone 3.

[officedweller]

Having it in the direction out of the airport makes much more sense and makes everyone's life easier. Now... I wonder how bus passes/U-Pass holders work...

They're exempt.

Buzzer info:
http://buzzer.translink.ca/index.php/2010/01/canada-line-yvr-addfare-coming-mon-jan-18-heres-how-it-works/

And more T signs around town:

http://buzzer.translink.ca/index.php/2010/01/more-t-signage-is-now-up-in-downtown-vancouver/

http://buzzer.translink.ca/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/t-stadium.jpg

[CLC]

Good new that even faresavers are exempt from AddFare, I will go ahead to buy more two-zone faresavers.