[sirkingwilliam]

http://downtownsanantonio.org/images/RN-Logo-Green.gif

http://xs320.xs.to/xs320/07436/rivernorth-masterplan.PNG

http://xs320.xs.to/xs320/07436/rivernorth1.PNG

http://xs320.xs.to/xs320/07436/rivernorth2.PNG

http://xs320.xs.to/xs320/07436/rivernorth7.PNG

http://xs320.xs.to/xs320/07436/rivernorth8.PNG

http://xs320.xs.to/xs320/07436/rivernorth3.PNG

http://xs320.xs.to/xs320/07436/rivernorth11.PNG

http://xs320.xs.to/xs320/07436/rivernorth4.PNG

http://xs320.xs.to/xs320/07436/rivernorth5.PNG

[jaga185]

A THEATRE DISTRICT! AHHH lol, I'm excited about that.

[verbl]

looks like an awesome place a MLB stadium next to

[verbl]

I heart river north

[sirkingwilliam]

looks like an awesome place a MLB stadium next to

If only, although you do bring up a good point. River North would be the perfect location for a professional sports team stadium. The ideal location within River North would be Central Catholic High School. That is the area where you see the track and field oval.

[Paul in S.A TX]

This will be one of the best downtowns in the USA!!!! Best in Texas with no doubt!!It's just my opinion!!

[sirkingwilliam]

I'm having serious problems with what you did in the other section.

[KevinFromTexas]

I'm having serious problems with what you did in the other section.

Nixed.

[KevinFromTexas]

This looks like a sweet project. So are all the brown models new stuff? Obviously some of those highrises are new, though conceptual, but is all that really part of it? I guess some of those might be renovations also. At any rate, this is exciting.

[michobq]

If only, although you do bring up a good point. River North would be the perfect location for a professional sports team stadium. The ideal location within River North would be Central Catholic High School. That is the area where you see the track and field oval.

I thought that was Fox Tech HS, but I could be wrong.

The Archdiocese of San Antonio is looking for land to place a new Catholic HS so maybe moving the Central Catholic campus may be an option. The land that is sits on is worth a lot of money and the Archdiocese could use that money to build a bigger, better Central Catholic HS.

The cluster of conceptual buildings by the two ATT buildings look like they could be the beginning of an ATT campus. They are of close proximity to one another being right across the river. Who knows?

[starvinggryphon]

Nah, that's not Fox Tech, it's the catholic school across from KSAT-12

[BigBird9]

WOW, this thing looks great! Although, as verbl, said, a pro-sports stadium would be perfect.

[JACKinBeantown]

Nah, make it more like the upper west side meets Greenwich Village. No stadiums in those great residential areas.

[sirkingwilliam]

I thought that was Fox Tech HS, but I could be wrong.

The Archdiocese of San Antonio is looking for land to place a new Catholic HS so maybe moving the Central Catholic campus may be an option. The land that is sits on is worth a lot of money and the Archdiocese could use that money to build a bigger, better Central Catholic HS.

The cluster of conceptual buildings by the two ATT buildings look like they could be the beginning of an ATT campus. They are of close proximity to one another being right across the river. Who knows?

That is true about the Archdiocese building a new high school on the north side. However, I don't think that means there shutting down Central Catholic. Someone would definitively have to buy the school and land while possibly donating land near downtown for a new school.

[verbl]

If only, although you do bring up a good point. River North would be the perfect location for a professional sports team stadium. The ideal location within River North would be Central Catholic High School. That is the area where you see the track and field oval.

I second that! If only the city could see the commerce that that would bring to the downtown area. My friend who is a huge cardinals fan says there is nothing better than having a stadium downtown because not only can you get a hotel close to the game but before it starts he can go shopping and go sightseeing in st.louis, not only would it be beautiful it would help the local economy as well

[alexjon]

I hope they heed Homer Williams' pseudo-warning about their plans to forgo installing a streetcar.

It would be the best move, but I've no idea why everyone is so against it when people with billions of dollars of development revenue under their belts are saying "do it do it do it"

[sirkingwilliam]

I hope they heed Homer Williams' pseudo-warning about their plans to forgo installing a streetcar.

It would be the best move, but I've no idea why everyone is so against it when people with billions of dollars of development revenue under their belts are saying "do it do it do it"

From what I can tell, there is plans for street cars in River North.

http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/5131/rivernorth20sg1.png

[alexjon]

If only I could run back to my office right now, I could scan a sketch I did of a fantasy streetcar line through downtown-- it's almost exactly that setup!

[verbl]

This will be one of the best downtowns in the USA!!!! Best in Texas with no doubt!!It's just my opinion!!

I think it will be world class.

[sirkingwilliam]

If only I could run back to my office right now, I could scan a sketch I did of a fantasy streetcar line through downtown-- it's almost exactly that setup!

I like how the start/end points are the convention center and the Pearl.

[ydoc14]

This might sound absolutely nuts, but I think one of the coolest things about the whole project is the planting of trees inside the 35/281 interchange.

[sirkingwilliam]

I believe those trees have already been planted, I think they were planted a little over a year ago.

[ydoc14]

I believe those trees have already been planted, I think they were planted a little over a year ago.

Cool, that means they're a year taller lol.

[Trae]

This is actually a really cool project. A nice break from all of the suburban/exurban developments.

[matttwentyeight]

This is actually a really cool project. A nice break from all of the suburban/exurban developments.


gotta agree with you totally, trae... it does look pretty cool... now if only it could have already been built... oh well, that's just the impatient part of me, LOL!

thanks sirking for the thread posting!

[verbl]

can someone please show me in prox where all this is from like the hyatt and the marriot is please. I'm no good with directions. thanks

[ydoc14]

can someone please show me in prox where all this is from like the hyatt and the marriot is please. I'm no good with directions. thanks

North and slightly North-Northeast of the Marriott and Hyatt. Bordered by I-35 to the north and I-37 to the east.

[verbl]

thanks a bunch.:tup:

[sirkingwilliam]

verbl, hope this helps. River North is highlighted in blue.

http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?f=s&ie=UTF8&hl=en&om=0&msa=0&ll=29.42846,-98.488569&spn=0.036705,0.058365&z=14&msid=113020200728418638583.00043d8678878e47c23e6

[verbl]

That is what I needed to see again thank you, much.

[AndresAndujar]

Go to http://downtownsanantonio.org and click on the River North logo for the latest on the master plan!

[AndresAndujar]

I just read the earlier parts of the thread. The streetcar is a recommendation by the planners. The whole master plan is a footprint for future development. The budget for the streetcar is rounded to $8 million per mile, so the three miles represented in the mater plan will require $24 million.

Homer Williams statements about their rail car in Portland would lead us to believe the $24 million investment would be well spent here! Another statement by Homer I really liked was "Give me four corners and I'll give you a neighborhood!"

Definitely we are shaping an area of downtown into a spectacular neigborhood for San Antonians. We have dreamnt this turns us so well that town planners from across America and abroad will come to learn how to do it right - just as we have gone to see places like Portland's Pearl District, Denver, Dallas, Vancouver, Barcelona and others.

I would like for River North to develop in such a way that you and I would insist in living there.

[sirkingwilliam]

Andres, I forgot to say this earlier but congratulations! I've been following the River North district development since a little after it was first announced a couple of years ago and I know you put a lot of heart into it and at first it seemed like just a man's pipe dreams of sorts but in that sort time span from when you first proposed River North until now you and your colleagues have worked your tails off and made this thing into a reality. You are writing San Antonio history my friend, be proud!

[sirkingwilliam]

Andres, seeing as how we have you here could you update us on Houston Street?

[Complex01]

I just saw the River North Master Plan. It looks very promosing. I really like some of those renderings. If it all comes to light it will be very impressive place to reside...

:yes:

[sirkingwilliam]

Very impressive indeed.

[verbl]

River North....Yet another amazing reason to be Proud of the city where I was Born and raised.

[alexjon]

I just read the earlier parts of the thread. The streetcar is a recommendation by the planners. The whole master plan is a footprint for future development. The budget for the streetcar is rounded to $8 million per mile, so the three miles represented in the mater plan will require $24 million.

Homer Williams statements about their rail car in Portland would lead us to believe the $24 million investment would be well spent here! Another statement by Homer I really liked was "Give me four corners and I'll give you a neighborhood!"

The modern streetcar is a popular new development in a lot of cities-- here in Seattle, we're getting it. Back in Portland, we had it. Why not in my hometown? Even Tucson is getting one!

I think since it's in the frame of reference of an entirely new development, support should be pretty great.

From the shown alignment, it looks like the current "streetcar" and the number 7 sightseer bus will both experience a lot of overlap. Since both these services are fairly boutique, do you think in some ideal future the tram could absorb these routes?

Further to this, what is the operating name of the trolley/streetcar? I noticed "tram" in one of the documents... that would be an excellent name for the service, seeing as it's very european and exactly the vibe San Antonio seems to embrace pretty openly.

[Paul in S.A TX]

Does anyone have renderings on the lastest on River North?

[ydoc14]

Ninth Street Residences & Riverwalk Hotel
3D/I and Paradigm Hotel Group

24 units w/ attached hotel and parking garage. Located on the Riverwalk at 103 W. 9th St.

Seen in the HDRC Agenda for Feb. 20

The applicant is requesting a Certificate of Appropriateness for Final Approval

http://img170.imageshack.us/img170/3629/s4021119tc2.jpg

http://img170.imageshack.us/img170/1731/s4021118ox1.jpg

[verbl]

^^^ Dude where do you find this stuff:) :) :) Great renderings.

[ydoc14]

^^^ Dude where do you find this stuff:) :) :) Great renderings.

HDRC's website lol

[verbl]

AHHHHHH.....It all seems so clear to me now. haha

[Schertz1]

http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l164/schertz1/dty2.jpg

http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l164/schertz1/Riverna.jpg

http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l164/schertz1/rivernb.jpg

http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l164/schertz1/rivernb2.jpg

http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l164/schertz1/rivernx.jpg

[sirkingwilliam]

They're making great progress.

[verbl]

wow it's gonna be pretty deep too.lol

[Trae]

It's like five feet.

[Raining Inside]

It's like five feet.

That's deep enough to float a dozen fat assed tourists on a "dinner cruise".

[matttwentyeight]

That's deep enough to float a dozen fat assed tourists on a "dinner cruise".

HELLz YEAH IT IS... HEHE!!!

[sirkingwilliam]

I can't believe I missed this.

This is the lock and damn being built.

http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l164/schertz1/rivernb2.jpg

[Trae]

I can't believe I missed this.

This is the lock and damn being built.

http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l164/schertz1/rivernb2.jpg
Wrong damn.

[sirkingwilliam]

lol, you're right.

Dam.

[verbl]

It's like five feet.


yeah.... and you also found out how to decipher sarcasm.

[Schertz1]

This project, Embarcadero, is 33% sold already.


http://www.mysanantonio.com/business/stories/MYSA040408.02C.Embarcadero.2d621a5.html

[alexjon]

So what's the deal now-- are they putting in those horrid road-chewing, smoke-spewing rubber-tired fakey "streetcars" in? I think SA has seen enough of those.

[sirkingwilliam]

No they're going to do the Portland/Seattle model.

[METALMiKE]

No they're going to do the Portland/Seattle model.

Where did you hear that?

[Paul in S.A TX]

Once the first RiverNorth condos are underway many more will follow.

[Trae]

No they're going to do the Portland/Seattle model.

What model is that? Those red Portland streetcars?

[alexjon]

What model is that? Those red Portland streetcars?

Local-use modern streetcars built to the scale of the neighborhood in an effort to urge growth and build population. 2.5 Billion dollars development around Portland's so far. Dunno Seattle's quite yet, but I do know Amazon moved partly because of the streetcar.

[sirkingwilliam]

Where did you hear that?

At the last River North meeting a couple of months back at Providence High School.

[sirkingwilliam]

What model is that? Those red Portland streetcars?

Portland
http://www.aiany.org/eOCULUS/2005/images/0822/Report_CACE08_Streetcar007.jpg

Seattle
http://www.myzip.net/images/uploads/0000/0781/Seattle_Streetcar.jpg


This is a rendering of (eventual) Avenue B in River North.
http://xs122.xs.to/xs122/07011/aveb.PNG

[Trae]

I see. Hopefully it all goes through. Reminds me of Uptown Dallas with the trolley.

[alexjon]

This one could work-- especially if they avoid running it up Broadway-- sticking to local service would be perfect.

[alexjon]

I read the docs on the website-- they're working fast on putting in the Trolley and the dislike the developers have for VIA is very VERY apparent. They even say "streetcar" -- not even letting themselves use VIA's terminology.

I love this development SO MUCH.

[MABottz]

River extension project to feature fairy tale come true

Web Posted: 04/11/2008 11:39 PM CDT
email]dgoddard@express-news.net[/email]
http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/metro/stories/MYSA041208.01A.Rivergrotto_0412.3ad4189.html

Dan R. Goddard
Express-News

Designed to look like the setting for a romantic fairy tale, a cavelike grotto is planned for a bend along the upper reach of the San Antonio River.

Carlos Cortés, San Antonio's master of concrete faux bois — or false wood — style, has been commissioned to create the $3 million project for the Museum Reach of the San Antonio River Improvements Project.

The grotto — which will feature waterfalls and realistic-looking stalactites and stalagmites molded and carved in concrete, as well as benches and walkways — is being funded by the San Antonio River Foundation, which unveiled the plans this week. It will be located in a bend of the river where Camden and Newell streets intersect a few blocks north of the San Antonio Museum of Art.

"This will be my biggest project so far," Cortés said "I'll probably add some follies, too, which I haven't decided on yet. I may have some shell work and mosaic murals. Basically, I've been studying cave formations and the old grottos of Europe and Latin America looking for ideas. Once I start working on a project, I like to be able to improvise."

Construction isn't scheduled to begin until the fall, and Cortés said it probably would take him between 12 and 14 months to finish the project.

"We expect this to be one of the nicest and most popular amenities along the urban segment of the Museum Reach. ... The grotto is likely to be one of our biggest projects," said Kim Abernethy, River Foundation deputy director.
EN Multimedia
• Learn more about the River Vision project

The foundation is working to raise $50 million from private sources for enhancements to the river improvements project.

Overall, the $250 million public/private project is designed to create a linear park extending from the Acequia Madre near Hildebrand Avenue to Mission Espada near Loop 410 South. The urban segment of the Museum Reach, which includes the grotto, extends the River Walk from Lexington Avenue to Josephine Street.

Cortés, who built the H-E-B Science Treehouse at the Witte Museum, is carrying on a family tradition started by his uncle, Dionisio Rodriguez, who built the bus stop resembling a palapa, or thatched-roof hut, in Alamo Heights in the 1920s.

Following in his uncle's footsteps, Cortés in 2004 built the palapa-style bus stop at South Presa Street and Callaghan Avenue in Southtown.

Currently, he's working on a palapa-style pavilion for the Hannah Landa Memorial Library that is scheduled to be unveiled May 1. With a roof of what looks like palm fronds held up by what appears to be a small grove of oak trees, the 30-by-15 foot concrete structure is designed to be used as an outdoor stage and meeting area.

"His work is simply beautiful, and we expect this pavilion will be a destination for people to see because it is such a wonderful example of Carlos' work," said Monte Vista resident Ann Van Pelt, who has worked on the project for the Landa Gardens Conservancy.

Cortés also plans to build a palapa-style overlook across the river from the grotto. The grotto will be about 120 feet wide and about 30 feet deep. Stairs will lead down into the grotto from street level, and a river-level path will wind through the faux cave.

Beginning late this summer, the city will dig into the riverbank and build a retaining wall and foundation for the grotto, which Cortés then will mold and carve with the help of a small crew of expert concrete workers. He said some of the cave features, such as the stalactites and stalagmites, would be fashioned at his outdoor workshop and studio in Southtown.

"Mostly, we'll be working to make the concrete look like the inside of a cave, but there probably will be tree roots growing through it and the benches will look like wood," he said. "While this grotto won't be a Catholic grotto, I hope that it will give people a spiritual feeling."

[ydoc14]

^^^ Sounds really cool.

[SAguy]

Unfinished project seeking a new start

Creighton A. Welch
Express-News Business Writer

It's hard not to notice the hulking, half-finished red brick, concrete and steel structures on Broadway. Their boarded windows loom over the street and jut high enough to catch the eye of drivers on the Interstate 35/Interstate 37 exchange.
The complex, once called the Villaje del Rio, with development begun by George Geis, has sat vacant since 2004.

But a meeting today could clear the way for work to begin again at the site. New plans are being presented to San Antonio's Historic and Design Review Commission for the mixed-use project of apartments and offices, now called 1221 Broadway.

If approved, 1221 Broadway would be the second project announced in a month as part of the River North redevelopment plan for the area just north of downtown.

At this point, any progress at the site would be welcome, the project's designer said.

"We're excited for the city to be able to change it," said Mickey Conrad, principal at OCO Architects Inc. and the lead architect of the project. "Every cab that comes from the airport to downtown drives by there and people go, 'What is that?'"

The new design maintains the original intent of the site with offices and apartments. But the new plans will add a fifth floor to the office building and a fifth floor to each of the 21 apartment buildings.

"We're essentially going to demolish the office building back down to the original concrete and start over with new walls and glass, overhangs and shadings," Conrad said. "We feel it's going to have kind of an upbeat look to it."

The structures long have sat as a kind of eyesore landmark in that part of town.

As reported in a 2006 San Antonio Express-News article, construction stopped in October 2004, and Geis sued his general contractor, claiming it had been overpaid by more than $2.5 million.

After Geis defaulted on the $26.7 million loan, lender Deutsche Bank Berkshire turned it over to the U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development, which had insured the loan.

Geis sued HUD after it tried to put the incomplete project up for bids, claiming the government had wrongfully taken management of the 4.5-acre property.

But HUD sold the debt to Colina Del Rio LP, a San Antonio-based company, before Geis could get a court order to stop it. He filed for bankruptcy protection a day before Colina Del Rio was set to foreclose.

The Colina Del Rio partnership includes Ed Cross and David Adelman, president and vice president, respectively, of Cross & Co.

Adelman wouldn't discuss more details of the project because Geis and Colina Del Rio are still in litigation over the title claim for the site.

"We are excited about the prospect of getting the project going again and bringing it to completion," Adelman said.

It would be the second project announced as part of River North to revitalize the area into a dense, urban environment.

"It has been a visual blight so I think it says a lot about the whole impetus behind the need for residential development," said Ben Brewer, president of The Downtown Alliance. "I consider the fact that it's moving forward again a positive sign for downtown and the area we consider River North."

In early April, developer Tim Sanford revealed plans for a mixed-use project at St. Mary's and Ninth streets called Embarcadero that would include 24 condos, a Scouzzi Italian Grill and a 126-room hotel.

"The 1221 Broadway project is a key project of (River North) because it almost connects to the River Walk, and there's going to be a major pedestrian access point there," Conrad said. "The access these tenants are going to have to the river is going to add a lot of life not only from the street to the river, but the river to the street."

As part of the new plans, the office space will be in the building closest to Broadway, and the apartments are set back to the west, closer to the river.

There also will be a five-story parking structure. There will be 300 apartments and about 75,000 square feet of office space.

"We're talking a lot of living units," said Lisa Schmidt, a real estate agent with The Phyllis Browning Co. "Right now, that area does not have a product like that — new apartment living. Think about all of those folks who may want to live closer to where they work."

If the HDRC approves the design, which the commission staff recommends, Conrad said the office construction would begin in June and work on the apartments would begin in September.

"It's going to be neat for that corner of the city to come to life again," Schmidt said. "That will be a contribution for the city to go from what it's able to offer now to what it will be able to offer when it's finished."

[oldmanshirt]

Awesome, River North is coming alive!

[jaga185]

Awesome, can't wait to see renderings.

[sirkingwilliam]

That's the Broadway Lofts development I posted about a while back.

http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=143522

[jaga185]

^^^ I thought so, and then I couldn't remember if you had or not, or if I was thinking of something else. It looks much more contemporary now.

[sirkingwilliam]

http://xs226.xs.to/xs226/08164/rivernorth614.png

[oldmanshirt]

That Fine Arts District is what I'm going to be keeping my eye on (and to a lesser extent, the P.A.D.), because that more than anything could really change the character of SA's downtown and be a real bridge between DT and the Brackenridge/UIW area, which is probably the closest thing SA has to a "sophisticated" area, with the Witte, McNay, and "downtown" Alamo Heights all being there.

[verbl]

I love this project more and more by the day...sorry I have not been on for a while but I seem to keep having to find new places to steal the internet:)

[Schertz1]

Demolition at the cross project

http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l164/schertz1/033.jpg

http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l164/schertz1/032.jpg

Embarcadero condos

http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l164/schertz1/040.jpg

[ydoc14]

^^^ Vidorra's looking nice from that last shot.

[oldmanshirt]

Woo hoo!! :D Let's keep it going, SA! I can't wait to be there this weekend!

[texboy]

City wants to take over River North planning

Web Posted: 05/01/2008 12:04 AM CDT

Greg Jefferson
Express-News

Facing suspicions that planning for River North has been tainted by insider dealings, City Manager Sheryl Sculley on Wednesday moved to take over the process and remove the not-for-profit organization that oversaw the plan’s creation from the picture altogether.

In a memo to the City Council on Wednesday, Sculley also recommended buying the draft plan from the Downtown San Antonio Community Development Corp., a nonprofit arm of the Downtown Alliance, a high-profile coalition of property owners.

“We’re not pointing fingers or saying there’s something wrong,” Deputy City Manager Pat DiGiovanni said. “We’re just trying to deal with the perception that the process is flawed.”

More than a year ago, the city allowed the Downtown San Antonio Community Development Corp. to take control of planning for River North’s redevelopment as a walkable neighborhood designed to make downtown living attractive again.

More recently, property owners have hounded the nonprofit and the city with complaints. Some felt left out, some worried about major zoning changes that the plan called for and some suspected certain insiders had tilted the process to their advantage.

A group called the River North Improvement Association was organized to oppose the plan. A representative of the group could not be reached for comment, but their concerns got the city’s attention.

“Frankly, we don’t see a role for the CDC in the planning process — during the public planning process that’s going to commence,” DiGiovanni said.

Ben Brewer III, president of the Downtown Alliance, sounded resigned to that move Wednesday night.

“Although we spent a year on the plan, the CDC is not a property owner in River North,” said Brewer, who’s also president of the nonprofit. “So it’s appropriate that the CDC take a backseat during the approval process.”

He added: “The bottom line is we want to see a plan put in place for the area — there’s tremendous opportunity for River North.”

River North is a 355-acre territory northeast of downtown, hemmed in by Interstates 35 and 37. The area’s got a few jewels — including the San Antonio Museum of Art — but much of it is rundown and under-utilized.

However, San Antonio River improvements, now under way between Lexington Avenue and Josephine Street, could spark a residential revival, potentially transforming River North into a neighborhood.

Much of the attention has focused on developer Ed Cross, who owns millions of dollars worth of River North real estate through a string of partnerships. He also sits on the CDC’s nine-member Master Plan Oversight Committee, which oversaw the hiring of a California planning firm — Moule & Polyzoides — and later served as a sounding board for its ideas.

In the draft plan, rolled out in public meetings in December and January, property that Cross and partners controls on two sides of Maverick Park and a nearby corner got a potentially lucrative designation that would allow for taller buildings, as did several parcels owned by others.

Cross has said he didn’t push planners to give favorable treatment to his property. He couldn’t be reached for comment Wednesday night.

Nearly a year ago, the CDC secured a line of credit from Broadway National BankÖ to pay for the plan, and so far has drawn between $550,000 and $600,000, Brewer said. The city would pay off that debt if the council agrees to Sculley’s recommendations, essentially establishing an up-front price for its more central role.

DiGiovanni said the city, in turn, could get reimbursed with tax increment financing that eventually will be available in River North.

City officials, he said, would use Moule & Polyzoides’ work as “a starting point.” He also said the city would separate the plan from controversial zoning changes proposed in the draft.

[alexjon]

Say goodbye to smart planning and the rail line, then.

[texboy]

Ah not so fast....Sculley (If memory serves me correct) was instrumental in getting rail in dt Phoenix and if anything, MORE density will come out of this bc the developers are complaining of NOT being zoned for taller structures with the current plan (that is if the plan is changed at all with this switch)

[alexjon]

I understand as much, but in a city that is bogged down by a density-hostile local government, I feel as though at some point the entire process will suddenly switch from "Grow" to "Stop", regardless of where Sculley cut her teeth.

Just playing devil's advocate, I suppose.

[SAguy]

I think the city manager taking over will be a good thing.

[jaga185]

Yeah, Sculley is one amazing person. I think she will fight for bigger and better things for River North.

[kornbread]

And that in a nutshell describes why San Antonio doesn't get downtown development like other cities. There are a lot of property owners who are wanna-be developers, but don't have the means to get anything done. And when they do try, you end up with an abandoned building on an abandoned street.

I'm leary of anything managed by the city in any way? They try to please everyone and do everything cheap. The city manager has her hands full just trying to bring the city into the 21st century.

Insider deals? Why do you think River North was presented in the first place? There's potential along the expanded river walk. Everyone has known about this. Certain people already had plans for the area, but wouldn't it be better with the tif? I can just see the insider-ness...

"Let's call it something snappy! Like... Uptown!"
"Not original..."
"SA Uptown? S'uptown?"
"Supper town!!"
"Dammit Big Lou, we'll eat after the meeting!"
"..NorthTown..."
"....<cricket sounds>...."
"Make the dam copies and get us coffee KW, no more ideas."
"What about Pearl Land?"
"Sit down Kit!"
"How about North River?"
"I thought you were supposed to be creative AA?"
"River North?"
"Good enough Yoda, let's go eat...Seriously Lou, you fat sweaty bastard, you're giving this city a bad name."

[sakyle04]

I understand as much, but in a city that is bogged down by a density-hostile local government, I feel as though at some point the entire process will suddenly switch from "Grow" to "Stop", regardless of where Sculley cut her teeth.

Just playing devil's advocate, I suppose.

remember that sculley is a downtown resident. she lives at la cascada, shops at hippos, and loves urbanity. we can trust her.:yes:

[sakyle04]

And that in a nutshell describes why San Antonio doesn't get downtown development like other cities. There are a lot of property owners who are wanna-be developers, but don't have the means to get anything done. And when they do try, you end up with an abandoned building on an abandoned street.

I'm leary of anything managed by the city in any way? They try to please everyone and do everything cheap. The city manager has her hands full just trying to bring the city into the 21st century.

Insider deals? Why do you think River North was presented in the first place? There's potential along the expanded river walk. Everyone has known about this. Certain people already had plans for the area, but wouldn't it be better with the tif? I can just see the insider-ness...

"Let's call it something snappy! Like... Uptown!"
"Not original..."
"SA Uptown? S'uptown?"
"Supper town!!"
"Dammit Big Lou, we'll eat after the meeting!"
"..NorthTown..."
"....<cricket sounds>...."
"Make the dam copies and get us coffee KW, no more ideas."
"What about Pearl Land?"
"Sit down Kit!"
"How about North River?"
"I thought you were supposed to be creative AA?"
"River North?"
"Good enough Yoda, let's go eat...Seriously Lou, you fat sweaty bastard, you're giving this city a bad name."

:haha: :haha:

very funny. supper town?!?!

[alexjon]

Developers drive development. Look at the South Waterfront in Portland-- it only really exists since developers wanted some towers like Vancouver.

And Pearl District? Developers.

Seattle's Belltown developments? Developers.

The city is what stops things from happening when the market is alive. Of course, when the market dies, nobody can turn dirt anyway.

[chadpcarey]

And that in a nutshell describes why San Antonio doesn't get downtown development like other cities. There are a lot of property owners who are wanna-be developers, but don't have the means to get anything done. And when they do try, you end up with an abandoned building on an abandoned street.

I'm leary of anything managed by the city in any way? They try to please everyone and do everything cheap. The city manager has her hands full just trying to bring the city into the 21st century.

Insider deals? Why do you think River North was presented in the first place? There's potential along the expanded river walk. Everyone has known about this. Certain people already had plans for the area, but wouldn't it be better with the tif? I can just see the insider-ness...

"Let's call it something snappy! Like... Uptown!"
"Not original..."
"SA Uptown? S'uptown?"
"Supper town!!"
"Dammit Big Lou, we'll eat after the meeting!"
"..NorthTown..."
"....<cricket sounds>...."
"Make the dam copies and get us coffee KW, no more ideas."
"What about Pearl Land?"
"Sit down Kit!"
"How about North River?"
"I thought you were supposed to be creative AA?"
"River North?"
"Good enough Yoda, let's go eat...Seriously Lou, you fat sweaty bastard, you're giving this city a bad name."

I'll give you credit for the second part being funny. But the first part is factually incorrect.

The only thing Sculley will "manage" is the implementation of the master plan. Private owners/developers will still control individual sites/projects.

And we don't have "wanna-be" developers; we have cautious developers because the costs and complexity of building urban projects is staggering.

The Geiss project was a failure because Geiss stopped paying his contractor. And Cross & Co. are ready to re-start construction as soon as Geiss runs out of litigation options.

[kornbread]

I'll give you credit for the second part being funny. But the first part is factually incorrect.

The only thing Sculley will "manage" is the implementation of the master plan. Private owners/developers will still control individual sites/projects.

And we don't have "wanna-be" developers; we have cautious developers because the costs and complexity of building urban projects is staggering.

The Geiss project was a failure because Geiss stopped paying his contractor. And Cross & Co. are ready to re-start construction as soon as Geiss runs out of litigation options.

Thanks and you're right of course, this is definately an outsider's view. I did not take the time to look over that area's tax records.

Yes, manage was probably a poor choice of a word. I believe that the city's input is important. It's just that this city really hasn't had the best track record in regards to planning, so instead of taking a strong stand when they should I can see them easing up and letting dumb and ugly creep in.

I wasn't saying there were wanna-be developer's, it was property owners who have ambitions of or profiting from development and don't really understand the costs or complexity that go into these types of projects. Then when someone moves and starts to make things happen, like Cross, they become obstructionists and make claims of insider deals.

Maybe I'm being dense, but how exactly is this insider? When I think of insider deals, I think of land buying next to the Toyota site before it's announced. The big thing in this area is the riverwalk expansion. Everyone knows where the river runs. I think the Pearl development happened in the first place because they really believed the river expansion would happen. Will some other big thing happen in this area? Is at&t ready to make a major commitment to the city? (just threw that out there for fun)

[texboy]

http://www.sanantonioriver.org/overview.html

I read last week in one of the presentation towards the bottom of this website that there are provisions being made for att expansion...just thought I would throw that out there

[kornbread]

It is kind of a long article, so here is the link:

http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/metro/stories/MYSA050408.1A.RiverNorth.388b3d1.html

[jaga185]

I'm not sure exactly what they are complaing about to be honest. The fact that the neighborhood won't be designed by the neighborhood itself? But on the other hand, if Sculley is opposing it, then I'm not sure what to think. Again, I don't really understand what is going on here... so if someone wants to read this and explain this to me, that would be great.

[sirkingwilliam]

I'm not sure exactly what they are complaing about to be honest. The fact that the neighborhood won't be designed by the neighborhood itself? But on the other hand, if Sculley is opposing it, then I'm not sure what to think. Again, I don't really understand what is going on here... so if someone wants to read this and explain this to me, that would be great.

I don't think she's opposing the plan, I think she's just opposing the manner in which it came together that the property owners are complaining about. I also think she's opposing it in the media so early just to appease those property owners. Like she says, she doesn't know too much about it yet and wants to read everything and hear from everyone to get fully updated with everything so she can come to a better judgment.

I think when all is heard and revealed, the majority of the opposing property owners will be exposed as people just not wanting the plan to pass altogether for their own selfish reasons.

[chadpcarey]

kronbread:

You're more right than you know with regards to property owners. In SA, I've been very frustrated with the unrealistic expectations most property owners have. I get needled by many of my friends (good-natured.........I think.........) to "do something with all those crappy vacant lots/buildings down there".

Well, I can assure you that the owner of that "crappy vacant lot/building" thinks it's worth 3x it's actual value. And he/she is content to do nothing with it until he/she gets that price.

In the meantime, economic fundamentals for all deals are very, very skinny right now. Construction costs are still very high and volitile, capital is becoming much more expensive, and the lead-time for deals is too long.

Specific to the MP master plan, there are elements that I would probably not endorse, and I'm absolutely leery of giving COSA Development Services more regulatory authority, given the existing challenges of getting an urban building type approved (we're doing The Eighteen-Hundred, at Broadway & Grayson,and I have plenty of war stories).

That said, I'm encouraged that COSA (and Downtown Alliance, and Cross/Adelman/Lifshutz/etc.) are pushing for a grand vision. As you've pointed out, that's a big step forward for this city.

Chad.

[texboy]

http://www.sanantonioriver.org/museumreach.php

Wasn't sure if this had been posted yet....there is a webcam on the page where you can view several parts of the project all at once....its pretty cool!

[MABottz]

^^^Thanks for the link!

Does anybody know what is being done with the old Lone Star Brewery these days wrt to the River improvement project? I don't seem to see it factored in either the Eagleland or Museum Reach plans?? Also, any word on any development between Roosevelt Park and Conception?

If anybody knows of any other pending improvements/developments in that Eagleland area in general I'd really appreciate an update. My interest is strictly personal, (I grew up just down the street on Bank Street between Probandt and South Flores) and I gotta say I really can't believe someone is finally trying to spruce up my old barrio. This better work!

[alexjon]

Any news?

[KeepSanAntonioLame]

I saw the other day that they're tearing down a Cross & Co. owned building on the interstate side of Maverick Park.

[Schertz1]

http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l164/schertz1/P5250133.jpg

This is the Cross development at Maverick Park, taken last weekend.