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waterloowarrior
Oct 27, 2007, 4:15 AM
Bay Street
249-259 Bay St. - Proposed (application on hold)
16 storey residential tower
Developer: Richcraft
Location: 249-259 Bay St.
Web: http://www.yourfuturecommunity.com/baystreet.htm


Rendering: Not available

http://www.yourfuturecommunity.com/images/map-baystreet.gif

Picture by harls
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1137/1053030874_859e842829_b.jpg



Not too much info yet, but always good to see another downtown residential development

Jamaican-Phoenix
Oct 27, 2007, 4:21 AM
Hopefully it will make a positive impact on the skyline.

cityguy
Oct 27, 2007, 11:53 AM
I can't see a 16 storey building at that location having much of an impact on the skyline.

harls
Oct 30, 2007, 7:45 PM
^ me neither. it's got to be at least 30 storeys to have any impact.

waterloowarrior
Nov 6, 2007, 5:57 PM
Richcraft has applied for demolition permits for buildings on the site, but apparantly the 16 storey building is 'on hold' b/c of market conditions
http://ottawa.ca/calendar/ottawa/citycouncil/pec/2007/11-13/ACS2007-PTE-APR-0189.htm



The subject properties are located on the east side of Bay Street and the north side of Nepean Street, in the Centretown neighbourhood. The properties are developed with brick and vinyl dwellings, ranging in height from two to three storeys. The two-storey brick dwelling at 363 Nepean Street and the two-storey brick and vinyl sided building at 267 Bay Street do not form part of this application. The subject lands are surrounded by educational, commercial and residential uses.

The five buildings that are the subject of this application are unoccupied and have fallen into a state of disrepair. These vacant buildings have become a target for vandalism, trespassing, and loitering.

The purpose of this application is to demolish the buildings, and to remove the risk to public safety, pending the outcome of a Site Plan Control application of a 16-storey condominium building on the site. This application is currently "on hold" as a result of a change in market conditions.

harls
Nov 6, 2007, 7:58 PM
It's a shame those houses on Bay are abandoned. They're turn-of-the-century brick homes not unlike those found on other Centretown streets. How did they fall into such a state of disrepair?

Lyon street seems to be an imaginary barrier.. homes on the west side have this depressing skid-row kind of feel to them while to the east everything is expensive as hell. What gives?

AuxTown
Nov 7, 2007, 4:16 AM
That's an interesting observation, I've noticed the same in the past. It's like that on all East-West streets downtown from Slater to Catherine. It's only a matter of time before the rest of Centretown rubs off on those areas so it would be smart to gobble up some property there soon. Some of those houses are just frustratingly ugly and they all seem to have disproportionately run-down front porches.

rodionx
Nov 7, 2007, 6:18 AM
It's a shame those houses on Bay are abandoned. They're turn-of-the-century brick homes not unlike those found on other Centretown streets. How did they fall into such a state of disrepair?

Lyon street seems to be an imaginary barrier.. homes on the west side have this depressing skid-row kind of feel to them while to the east everything is expensive as hell. What gives?

Those houses came to be abandoned because Richcraft bought them up in 2004 with the intention of building condos, and then put the project on hold indefinitely. One of them was a traveller's hostel and the others were rentals, I think. They've been empty for a long time now. I'll be happy to see a couple of those buildings go, but it's a pity about the others.

I own a house on Bay street myself, so I'm more than a little biased, but I never noticed any change in the nature of the neighbourhood east of Lyon. However, back when I rented an apartment by the canal, I used to notice that the areas west of Bank were distinctly less salubrious than those east. That was before all these infill townhouses started popping up. Anyway, I'd agree that it's a neighbourhood in development and relatively cheap for being so central. My relatives in B.C. were really surprised that I could afford to own property so close to Parliament. Another perk of the area is that you can rent out your parking spaces to office workers.

Now if they would just put a new library or gallery or museum on the Technical High School site, I'll be like this dancing banana here... :banana:

cityguy
Nov 7, 2007, 12:28 PM
I saw on cjoh-tv last week that a discision on the libary should be made in the next few weeks.

rodionx
Nov 7, 2007, 11:48 PM
I saw on cjoh-tv last week that a discision on the libary should be made in the next few weeks.

Cool. Thanks for the info. I thought they weren't going to make a decision until the spring. A public institution of some sort would really lift this side of Bank Street. Elgin and the Market have lots of good stuff already.

Incidentally, has anyone noticed that the Pinnacle on Lyon Street, which is practically around the corner from Richcraft's development, doesn't seem to be selling? It was finished nearly a year ago and they've been reduced to advertising on kijiji (http://ottawa.kijiji.ca/c-housing-housing-for-sale-Pinnacle-Condominiums-W0QQAdIdZ28177977). Wonder if that might be making Richcraft hesitate.

harls
Nov 8, 2007, 12:02 AM
Incidentally, has anyone noticed that the Pinnacle on Lyon Street, which is practically around the corner from Richcraft's development, doesn't seem to be selling? It was finished nearly a year ago and they've been reduced to advertising on kijiji (http://ottawa.kijiji.ca/c-housing-housing-for-sale-Pinnacle-Condominiums-W0QQAdIdZ28177977). Wonder if that might be making Richcraft hesitate.

really? I work kitty-corner from the Pinnacle, I thought for sure it'd sell out quick - it's not like it's that far from the action. Maybe being on the periphery of downtown is more psychological than anything.. Bank St, which is arguably "where the action is", is only two blocks to the east.

Mille Sabords
Nov 8, 2007, 1:30 AM
Incidentally, has anyone noticed that the Pinnacle on Lyon Street, which is practically around the corner from Richcraft's development, doesn't seem to be selling? It was finished nearly a year ago and they've been reduced to advertising on kijiji (http://ottawa.kijiji.ca/c-housing-housing-for-sale-Pinnacle-Condominiums-W0QQAdIdZ28177977). Wonder if that might be making Richcraft hesitate.

Actually, according to my sources they are comfortably sold (over 90%). The sales person in the kijiji ad might be doing some creative advertisement to close out the building, which has been on the market for quite a while and therefore has probably dropped out of most people's radar. That's probably the reason for those ads. I do notice that condo projects tend to have a bitch of a time closing out, though. The Montmartre, which is a brilliant little mixed-use infill on Dalhousie, has been stuck with one unsold unit since last spring. To say nothing of 1277 Wellington (Routeburn), also stuck with one unsold penthouse and that project was started about 5 years ago. The guys at Routeburn must be pretty steamed.

rodionx
Nov 8, 2007, 4:47 AM
So that explains it. It's a few fugly units that won't budge. I walk past there all the time, and I kept expecting the 'condo units for sale' sign to come down, month after month. When I saw that ad on kijiji I assumed they were truly screwed. People sell old tires on kijiji. Maybe it's a marketing issue. Even in this forum, that place never seemed to get much of a buzz going.

Jamaican-Phoenix
Nov 8, 2007, 4:53 AM
:previous: Dude, that's because it's Claridge. :haha:

AuxTown
Nov 8, 2007, 5:16 PM
So that explains it. It's a few fugly units that won't budge. I walk past there all the time, and I kept expecting the 'condo units for sale' sign to come down, month after month. When I saw that ad on kijiji I assumed they were truly screwed. People sell old tires on kijiji. Maybe it's a marketing issue. Even in this forum, that place never seemed to get much of a buzz going.

It may be because of the Pinnacle's proximaty to The Glue Pot Pub and arguably the most unsightly parking lot in the CBD. That lot needs to be develped before the areas West of Lyon can really take off.

rodionx
Nov 10, 2007, 6:11 AM
It may be because of the Pinnacle's proximaty to The Glue Pot Pub and arguably the most unsightly parking lot in the CBD. That lot needs to be develped before the areas West of Lyon can really take off.

The Glue Pot sure is lonely at the end of that parking lot. It's been like that for ages. Strange that no one wants to build anything there. Good spot for a subway station, though.

Deez
Nov 10, 2007, 5:22 PM
It may be because of the Pinnacle's proximaty to The Glue Pot Pub and arguably the most unsightly parking lot in the CBD. That lot needs to be develped before the areas West of Lyon can really take off.

I've been hoping to see a development notice for that lot ever since I joined this forum. Not only is the lot itself unslightly, but a sizeable tower at that location would do a lot to block the ugliness of Place de Ville III from some western vantage points. I wonder who owns it/what's holding them back from doing anything with it...

Jamaican-Phoenix
Nov 10, 2007, 5:31 PM
:previous: The parking lot I believe is owned by a parking lot company, so they have no interest in a nice new tower going up there. It's the perfect spot for a 40-45 storey signature tower...

harls
Nov 11, 2007, 2:11 AM
as long as they don't touch Barbarella's, I'll be okay.

rodionx
Nov 20, 2007, 7:37 PM
There's a brief update on this property in the Centretown Buzz: city staff are going to recommend demolishing the buildings at the site, after which Richcraft will have five years (!) to think of something to put there. Apparently they bought the buildings in 2002 and not 2004 as I'd thought. That's a long time to be growing weeds.

There's another article in the Buzz about five abandoned and recently demolished houses on Cambridge street in Chinatown. It's a similar case - a developer bought up a group of residential properties with big plans for developing them, then dropped the plans and inexplicably held onto the property, leaving the buildings to rot. Here's the article (http://www.centretown.net/news_detail.php?news_id=225). What are the taxes on a vacant lot, anyway? They must be low.

Mille Sabords
Nov 20, 2007, 9:30 PM
as long as they don't touch Barbarella's, I'll be okay.

:D :D One of the last ones. Remember how many more there used to be and they all went down, either thanks to the city's puritan by-laws or other "accidental" reasons? ie. Valentino's on Somerset; the Raceway in the Market, Lido in Hull...

AuxTown
Nov 21, 2007, 3:45 AM
A couple of my buddies were at Club Pigale on the weekend sitting the VIP section and Bon Jovi in their entirety were sitting at the table next to them! I'm not a big fan of strip clubs, but that would have been amazing.

Mille Sabords
Nov 21, 2007, 5:15 PM
A couple of my buddies were at Club Pigale on the weekend sitting the VIP section and Bon Jovi in their entirety were sitting at the table next to them! I'm not a big fan of strip clubs, but that would have been amazing.

That is quite the story! I'm not a regular of strip joints nor a fan of Bon Jovi but I understand their choice, Pigale tends to have nicer looking girls. No matter what happens in Ottawa, including the big-box strip joint off of St-Laurent (which I only went once) - there is always a clear distinction between quantity and quality. :D

Cre47
Nov 28, 2007, 9:17 PM
Council had approved the demolition of those homes in that area.

rodionx
Jul 10, 2008, 12:19 AM
Regarding Harls' post in the rumours thread about Richcraft's application for variance at the Bay/Gloucester site...

I called the number on the sign, and the guy I spoke to said that Richcraft is asking for a height limit increase of something like three metres. The building will remain 16 stories, but they want to make the ceilings higher. Richcraft filed a plan in April. The entrance and exit to the underground parking will be on Gloucester, while the pedestrian entrance will be on Bay.

So maybe they're actually going to build it this time. We shall see...

harls
Jul 10, 2008, 4:57 PM
^ When you called, did you find out if they had any renderings of the project? I checked their website, but it looks like it hasn't been updated in a while. I hope it looks a bit better than the Galleria project they're currently completing.

rodionx
Jul 10, 2008, 10:24 PM
^ When you called, did you find out if they had any renderings of the project? I checked their website, but it looks like it hasn't been updated in a while. I hope it looks a bit better than the Galleria project they're currently completing.

I didn't ask, but the guy on the phone didn't mention one. It sounded like he was referring to a site plan only. Richcraft shelved the project after getting city approval back in 2003, so they may be tweaking the zoning for what is essentially banked land. Or not. A rendering would be nice.

Interestingly, there's another chunk of land suitable for a 14+ storey building up for sale a half block away at Gloucester and Lyon. Yours for $3.2 million (http://www.ottawahomeseller.com/Ottawa/Ontario/Commercial_Real_Estate/Centretown/Agent/Listing_1668275.html).

c_speed3108
Jul 11, 2008, 3:58 PM
I didn't ask, but the guy on the phone didn't mention one. It sounded like he was referring to a site plan only. Richcraft shelved the project after getting city approval back in 2003, so they may be tweaking the zoning for what is essentially banked land. Or not. A rendering would be nice.

Interestingly, there's another chunk of land suitable for a 14+ storey building up for sale a half block away at Gloucester and Lyon. Yours for $3.2 million (http://www.ottawahomeseller.com/Ottawa/Ontario/Commercial_Real_Estate/Centretown/Agent/Listing_1668275.html).

Wow that's takes the wind out of the argument that land costs are what makes condos so expensive doesn't it???

A 15,000 Square foot lot.

Lets say we building on 12,000 of that and on each floor of the building there is about 10,000 sq ft of apartment space.

At 14 floors we end up with 140,000 sq ft of space to sell.

$3,180,000 / 140000 = a little less than $23/sq.ft. for the land.

Mille Sabords
Jul 11, 2008, 6:22 PM
Wow that's takes the wind out of the argument that land costs are what makes condos so expensive doesn't it???

A 15,000 Square foot lot.

Lets say we building on 12,000 of that and on each floor of the building there is about 10,000 sq ft of apartment space.

At 14 floors we end up with 140,000 sq ft of space to sell.

$3,180,000 / 140000 = a little less than $23/sq.ft. for the land.

That's not quite how you'd cost it... $3.2 million divided by 15,000 sq.ft. (using your data) is $213/sq.ft. of raw land. That's an expensive piece of property, especially since you also have to pay for demolitions. And that's also why it's listed with a broker - they are testing the waters but I doubt anyone will bite at that price. If it were a good deal, it would've been sold privately.

c_speed3108
Jul 11, 2008, 8:02 PM
That's not quite how you'd cost it... $3.2 million divided by 15,000 sq.ft. (using your data) is $213/sq.ft. of raw land. That's an expensive piece of property, especially since you also have to pay for demolitions. And that's also why it's listed with a broker - they are testing the waters but I doubt anyone will bite at that price. If it were a good deal, it would've been sold privately.

There is some demolition cost. I have not included that. What my point was that with high rise buildings, the land cost does not justify (significantly) higher prices for units. When units costs are north of $300 a square foot the land cost (on a 14 story building) is fairly low.

I have no idea if that is a good price or not for that land. What I am saying is that certainly someone could buy it at that price so it is a upper bound on land cost downtown.

Mille Sabords
Jul 11, 2008, 8:07 PM
There is some demolition cost. I have not included that. What my point was that with high rise buildings, the land cost does not justify (significantly) higher prices for units. When units costs are north of $300 a square foot the land cost (on a 14 story building) is fairly low.

I have no idea if that is a good price or not for that land. What I am saying is that certainly someone could buy it at that price so it is a upper bound on land cost downtown.

In a normal market, land cost is a residual. You assess how many gross and net sellable feet you can build, how much it costs you to build, how much you can sell for, and then your land price is a percentage of your total sales which you and your friendly banker decide is appropriate.

With construction costs climbing nonstop and land owners like this one getting ever hungrier, the question is how much can you sell a condo square foot. We are getting to some upper limits in this market, which is not as frothy as Toronto's or Vancouver's. That's why in my opinion, that price is too high.

rodionx
Jul 15, 2008, 12:37 AM
Interesting to browse those commercial listings. Someone is trying to sell a six unit rental building in Chinatown for one million (http://www.2ontario.com/orea/listingdetails.asp?propertytype_id=INVS&searchby=city&city=OTTAWA&comprorcode=&mun_name=&mapcode=&refnum=OTT699916&textid=) dollars. :D

Yellow stripes painted all over the Richcraft site, right on the dirt in places. I do believe those represent natural gas lines. Maybe getting ready for demolition.

Mille Sabords
Jul 15, 2008, 12:31 PM
Interesting to browse those commercial listings. Someone is trying to sell a six unit rental building in Chinatown for one million (http://www.2ontario.com/orea/listingdetails.asp?propertytype_id=INVS&searchby=city&city=OTTAWA&comprorcode=&mun_name=&mapcode=&refnum=OTT699916&textid=) dollars. :D

Another sign of tire-kicking some upper limits by a hungry owner (this one is a flipper- that property was previously a famous baseball bat factory... some of the apartments must be loft-style and pretty big if they are using the old fabrication space). Still, in this neighbourhood, at $167,000 a door based on projected income (not even signed leases!), you gotta be stretching...

c_speed3108
Jul 15, 2008, 1:09 PM
Another sign of tire-kicking some upper limits by a hungry owner (this one is a flipper- that property was previously a famous baseball bat factory... some of the apartments must be loft-style and pretty big if they are using the old fabrication space). Still, in this neighbourhood, at $167,000 a door based on projected income (not even signed leases!), you gotta be stretching...


Wow that price is very high!!! My understanding was rentals generally go for less than 100...depending on quality.

rodionx
Jul 15, 2008, 5:14 PM
Wow that price is very high!!! My understanding was rentals generally go for less than 100...depending on quality.

That was the other thing that didn't make sense. If you're going to go to all the trouble of converting the space into residential units, why make them rentals? The Pawn da Rosa site is about the same size and in the same neighbourhood, and the six townhouses they'll build there will go for, what, $200 to $300K each? Easy million right there.

waterloowarrior
Jul 15, 2008, 6:29 PM
at tomorrow's CofA, as mentioned earlier

Applications for Minor Variances, for the proposed development of this property, were considered by the Committee both in 2003 & 2005. The Owner has revised its proposal and wants to demolish the existing buildings located on the property and construct a new 16-styorey, 215 unit residential condominium building with 4 levels of underground parking, as shown on plans filed with the Committee.


In order to proceed, the Owner requires the Authority of the Committee for Minor Variances from the Zoning Bylaw as follows:
(a) To permit an increase in building height to 48.05 metres, whereas the By-law permits a maximum height of 36.6 metres.
(b) To permit a reduced easterly side yard of 5.0 metres the first 21 metres in from both Nepean and
Gloucester Streets, whereas the By-law requires a minimum side yard of 7.5 metres beyond the first 21
metres.
For By-law purposes, Gloucester Street is deemed to be the frontage for this property.

waterloowarrior
Sep 5, 2008, 9:53 PM
appealed to the OMB (http://www.omb.gov.on.ca/ecs/CaseDetail.aspx?n=PL081028)

m0nkyman
Sep 9, 2008, 1:16 AM
does anything in this city not get appealed to the OMB?

citizen j
Sep 11, 2008, 7:36 PM
does anything in this city not get appealed to the OMB?

An article in the Ottawa Business Journal comes in handy in answering your question. It seems 26% of "in-fill" development proposals end up at the OMB.

http://www.ottawabusinessjournal.com/310568539718778.php

Mille Sabords
Sep 11, 2008, 8:17 PM
An article in the Ottawa Business Journal comes in handy in answering your question. It seems 26% of "in-fill" development proposals end up at the OMB.

http://www.ottawabusinessjournal.com/310568539718778.php

I saw that. Which means that almost three quarters do not.

citizen j
Sep 11, 2008, 10:33 PM
I saw that. Which means that almost three quarters do not.

So, you're saying the cup is 3/4 full?

Mille Sabords
Sep 12, 2008, 12:49 PM
So, you're saying the cup is 3/4 full?

:cheers: I'd sooner have a beer mug that's three-quarters full, than a quarter empty.

harls
Oct 2, 2008, 3:19 PM
Richcraft's website is currently offline, there's a message saying they will be launching a new one October 3 (tomorrow). I wonder if it will include a sneak peak at the condo they're developing for this site.

I went by there yesterday and the lot looked like it had less trees, and a bit more cleaned up. Maybe it was just my imagination, though.

waterloowarrior
Nov 4, 2008, 12:03 AM
appealed to the OMB (http://www.omb.gov.on.ca/ecs/CaseDetail.aspx?n=PL081028)

the omb file online is closed and the hearings cancelled; I guess the appeal was dropped/settled

waterloowarrior
Feb 1, 2009, 5:33 PM
Richcraft has the status of this project on their website ('application')
http://www.richcraft.com/255bay.htm

http://www.richcraft.com/images/intheworks/255bay/background.gif


Location Somerset Ward
Floors 15
Unit Types condominium suites
Proposed No. of Units 204
Date Available To be determined

Overview The proposed condominium at 255 Bay Street is located at the corner of Nepean, Bay and Gloucester Street, fronting Bay Street in downtown Ottawa.

Current Status 255 Bay Street is at the application stage.

harls
Feb 1, 2009, 6:26 PM
I'm going to change the title of this thread to reflect what they have on that plan - 15 fl, 74.7m.

..or am I reading that right, because Mondrian is also 73 m but it has 10 more floors? :???: I'll wait until someone can confirm.

Norman Bates
Feb 2, 2009, 12:53 AM
I'm going to change the title of this thread to reflect what they have on that plan - 15 fl, 74.7m.

..or am I reading that right, because Mondrian is also 73 m but it has 10 more floors? :???: I'll wait until someone can confirm.Could that be 74.7 metres above sea level?

rodionx
Feb 2, 2009, 1:25 AM
Transcription error? Wasn't the height supposed to be something like 47.7?

Then again, the total number of units seems to be on the high side as well.

eemy
Feb 2, 2009, 12:44 PM
What does FFS mean in that context? For further study? 75m would suggest floor heights more typical in an office building than an apartment building. 50 would be more in line with a residential building.

harls
Feb 2, 2009, 2:18 PM
Could that be 74.7 metres above sea level?

You're right. I just zoomed in on the site with Google earth and it gives the elevation as 74 m. Thanks.. and welcome to the forum too, by the way!


What does FFS mean in that context?

Jeremy, I have seen FFS as shorthand meaning "for f*ck sakes", but I don't think that's what they were going for here :laugh:

eemy
Feb 2, 2009, 3:16 PM
Jeremy, I have seen FFS as shorthand meaning "for f*ck sakes", but I don't think that's what they were going for here :laugh:

I figured that it was improbably that they would find the need to use that particular meaning in a site plan. Who knows though, maybe the drafter was a bit short tempered that day? :shrug:

firestorm02
Feb 2, 2009, 7:32 PM
FFS = First Floor Slab
74.7m = Ground floor slab elevation based on the geodetic datum (WGS 84)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Geodetic_System

eemy
Feb 2, 2009, 10:21 PM
Cool, thanks. Even Google didn't answer that one for me.

rodionx
May 23, 2009, 3:47 AM
This is kind of a non-update update, but a backhoe was onsite this week and tore down an addition at the back of one of the abandoned buildings. It wasn't necessarily the start of demolition, though, as the roof over the addition had collapsed and there was probably a safety issue there. The backhoe has been parked for several days now. Richcraft also put up a sign telling people not to dump stuff there. I'll give it 48 hours before it's completely covered in graffiti.

I called the city guy responsible for this file and he said that Richcraft has approval to tear down these buildings any time it wants, but the timing is up to them. And that's about where we were last time. I wonder what calculations must be going on at Richcraft HQ.

ServiceGuy
Dec 12, 2009, 2:11 PM
A recent update was posted by amanfromnowhere in the Galleria II thread HERE (http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showpost.php?p=4602285&postcount=22).

The biggest problem with getting things started at this site is that now demolition permits and building permits are combined. Used to be you could get a permit to knock everything down, set up a sales center, obtain your 50% + pre-sales, then start the building but now you have to spend the $1000000 + bucks for the building permit just to clear the property. Richcraft has no where to put a sales centre in that area so it has not been marketed and hence... no pre-sales. They could renovate one of the former crack houses for a sales center but how good would that look surrounded by all the other abandoned homes? My understanding is that Richcraft has the best of intentions and desire for this site but nothing will be started until the building is mostly sold... and that won't happen until they actually start selling it.

rodionx
Dec 12, 2009, 2:58 PM
Thanks ServiceGuy and amanfromnowhere. Not the best news, but it's nice to have some kind of update. I've been walking past those buildings for years now. Every once in a while it looks like Richcraft might be starting something, but then it fizzles out.

The annoying thing is that those buildings weren't so terrible before Richcraft bought them. One was a guesthouse and I believe the others were rented mostly to students. If they'd been left alone, they'd probably have been renovated and looking pretty good by now, like a lot of similar properties in the neighbourhood. Instead they just sit there abandoned, making the area look blighted.

If Richcraft waits long enough, those buildings will either collapse or catch fire on their own, but the company won't save any money if the collapse/fire takes out the neighbours as well. Hope they get it together soon.

acottawa
Dec 12, 2009, 4:05 PM
Whatever the reasons, allowing properties to deteriorate should be illegal. They should be required to either fix up the buildings or demolish them and landscape/maintain the site.

I don't see how the lack of room for an on-site sales centre is a problem. Many sales centres are nowhere near the buildings they're selling (and in this case, they would probably sell more if people can't see the site).

It seems like an odd place to put a midrise condo. There isn't much room, compared to other sites in centretown it is quite far from stores/amenities and there would be stiff competition from the many townhouses within a block.

Norman Bates
Dec 12, 2009, 6:25 PM
I've always had a soft spot for this location. For me it's the perfect blend of close and not too close. You really don't need a car for this location yet you're away from the hustle and bustle of the arterials. During the bus strike I parked here and walked. It was far from onerous. Plus one of the best unknown pizza places in town.

Richcraft has never sold anything here because they've never tried. No design or floor plans have ever surfaced at a sales level. For me this site has real potential that could be realized by someone with the creativity of Charlesfort or even those loathesome SOHO people. Alas, that's unlikely to happen unless Richcraft is forced to sell.

rodionx
Dec 14, 2009, 12:51 AM
Yeah, the area is a little oasis. South of Laurier, Bay and Percy are sleepy little streets with mostly single detached homes. You're a stone's throw from Parliament, but you almost wouldn't know it.

I had a theory that Richcraft was waiting for the new location of the Central Library to be announced, since that promised to boost property values as well (had a hunch it would be at this end), but evidently that wasn't it. It would be nice if they had to pay some escalating penalty for leaving land undeveloped. If nothing else, it would encourage them to sell it to a company that does want to do something.

Ottawan
Dec 14, 2009, 3:15 AM
Perhaps a good location for a pocket park (http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?p=4605624#post4605624) for the years Richcraft seems willing to sit on the lot?

waterloowarrior
Dec 15, 2009, 7:40 PM
Downtown residents want abandoned buildings demolished
Developer not ready to build, so 'eyesores' remain on block
Last Updated: Tuesday, December 15, 2009 | 10:38 AM ET http://www.cbc.ca/canada/ottawa/story/2009/12/15/condos-delayed.html
CBC News

People living next to a block of run-down, abandoned buildings in downtown Ottawa say it's time for the eyesores to come down.

Richcraft Homes bought the five buildings at Bay and Nepean streets five years ago, and the block has been slated for redevelopment ever since.

The billboards in front of the boarded-up buildings read, "Lifestyle Condos coming soon."

But for people living nearby, it's been an empty promise.

"It's really time to tear it down or the developer should do something with it. They bought it years ago, and they do nothing,' said Charles Akben-Marchand, of the Centretown Citizens' Community Association.

"Yeah, it'd be nice to see a new development there — just the fact that it's a complete eyesore. It's difficult to have it in your backyard everyday," he said.

"It's a problem magnet. It's a potential fire hazard, and it's potential other hazards for the neighbourhood."

Akben-Marchand said the buildings have been neglected so long, the only option is to tear them down.

The developer, Richcraft, has had preliminary plans for a highrise condominium building approved.

But, in an ironic twist, rules meant to speed up redevelopment are slowing the process down.

Under the city's demolition-control bylaw, new construction must occur within five years of demolition. Richcraft says it's not ready to build at Bay and Nepean, so the project is in limbo.

Somerset Ward councillor Diane Holmes said that was unexpected.

"We thought that something would be built quite soon after the purchase. It's very unusual that people will sit on land for this length of time before they decide to build."

Holmes is taking the matter to council, and asking her colleagues to take the unusual step of forcing Richcraft to demolish the buildings.

waterloowarrior
Jan 8, 2010, 9:58 PM
Demolition control application (http://app01.ottawa.ca/postingplans/appDetails.jsf?lang=en&appId=__7UKIPK)

To demolish the existing vacant 5 residential buildings on the property.

Davis137
Jan 9, 2010, 1:36 AM
I don't understand why this area would become so decrepid...the houses are huge, the mature trees are huge...I'm amazed that it's not an area like the Glebe or Civic Campus...

TransitZilla
Jan 9, 2010, 3:18 PM
I don't understand why this area would become so decrepid...the houses are huge, the mature trees are huge...I'm amazed that it's not an area like the Glebe or Civic Campus...

The cluster of big and ugly '60s/'70s-era apartment buildings has likely not helped.

rodionx
Jan 11, 2010, 4:30 AM
It looks worse than it is. The buildings in question were never abandoned - Richcraft just bought them and threw the tenants out. Gloucester and Nepean are also in the mixing zone between tall commercial and low rise residential, so that drags things down a bit. A couple of blocks south on Cooper, though, it's actually quite Glebe-ish and getting more so. Just this fall, two houses on Cooper between Bay and Bronson were jacked up and totally renovated. I shudder to think what that cost, but at least two separate households figured it would pay off.

rakerman
Jan 11, 2010, 8:05 PM
Ottawa Business Journal - Richcraft applies to demolish derelict downtown properties (http://www.obj.ca/Real-Estate/Residential/2010-01-11/article-421770/Richcraft-applies-to-demolish-derelict-downtown-properties/1) - Jan 11, 2010 (via @spacingottawa)

harls
Jan 12, 2010, 12:53 PM
It looks worse than it is. The buildings in question were never abandoned - Richcraft just bought them and threw the tenants out. Gloucester and Nepean are also in the mixing zone between tall commercial and low rise residential, so that drags things down a bit. A couple of blocks south on Cooper, though, it's actually quite Glebe-ish and getting more so. Just this fall, two houses on Cooper between Bay and Bronson were jacked up and totally renovated. I shudder to think what that cost, but at least two separate households figured it would pay off.

I saw that one house (on the corner of Lyon and Cooper?) The guy practically had his front porch suspended in mid-air. Those old houses must be worth a fortune.

Davis137
Jan 13, 2010, 11:53 AM
Yeah, I thought that the big 3 storey houses in that area would be worth a lot of money, or at the very least, the land they sit on...

rodionx
Mar 13, 2010, 1:38 AM
The Richcraft property was fenced off today, and an excavator is onsite. Looks like we're getting close to demolition time. Hope they take out their hideous Lifestyle Condos ads along with the buildings.

harls
Mar 13, 2010, 11:39 AM
Haha! :D

So if demolition is imminent, I wonder if they have made some progress on their website too... hmm, will have to check.

gjhall
Mar 13, 2010, 2:20 PM
I noticed the excavator too on my way home from work last night, grabbed a couple quick snaps:

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2748/4428722485_5326947672.jpg

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4067/4429488812_35f1a5ddb7.jpg

rodionx
Mar 16, 2010, 1:09 AM
Cool pix. I see half the sign has been torn off, which is a good start. Now it looks like an ad for a cult. "Life."

Anyway, destruction began today. Two houses demolished. A few more to go.

waterloowarrior
Mar 22, 2010, 4:04 PM
Images of Centretown is doing a series on the buildings
http://centretown.blogspot.com/2010/03/bay-and-nepean-demo-intro-and-part-1-of.html

jcollins
Apr 22, 2010, 3:13 PM
With this going ahead now, its too bad they couldnt have got their hands on either of the corner properties. Kind of limits the possibilities for the block and those two corners moving forward.

c_speed3108
Apr 22, 2010, 4:38 PM
Copying this over here

Thanks waterloowarrior



Richcraft receives permit for Bay Street condos

Peter Kovessy
Published on April 22nd, 2010

Ottawa Business Journal

A long-awaited 15-storey condominium tower in Centretown recently inched closer to reality after the city awarded a construction permit to the homebuilder behind the project.


Richcraft officials say there is still no set timeline for the new building at 255 Bay St., between Gloucester and Nepean streets. According to city records, the project has an estimated construction value of $28 million.

The homebuilder recently demolished five derelict vacant residential buildings on the site, which had become an eyesore for neighbours, who complained they posed a potential fire hazard.

The western edge of downtown Ottawa is expected to be significantly redeveloped in the coming years, anchored by a light rail station and new central library on the city block bounded by Slater, Bay, Lyon and Albert streets.

City council has also endorsed a planning vision for the escarpment district that envisions a series of high-density buildings between the former Ottawa Technical High School and LeBreton Flats.

Ottawa architect Roderick Lahey is designing the new residential tower, says Richcraft planner Kevin Yemm. Mr. Lahey designed Richcraft’s 12-storey Galleria on Besserer Street, just west of King Edward Avenue, and is also the architect behind the $80-million-plus re project on Sparks Street, made up of a high-end hotel and Ottawa’s priciest condominium building.

Separately, Richcraft is in the approval stage for The Galleria 2 on Besserer Street and has submitted a site plan control application to the city, as well as a rezoning application that would allow non-residential uses on the ground floor.

Mr. Yemm says that project will contain 197 units in a building that will be 14 storeys at its highest point.

rodionx
May 9, 2010, 12:57 AM
Richcraft appears to be building a giant fence around the site, with the exception of one section that has been flattened and covered with gravel. One could suppose that a sales trailer will one day be placed upon that gravel, but I'll believe it when I see it.

Based on the way they've been dealing with this site to date, I wouldn't put it past them to put up a giant wooden fence for the benefit of local spray paint enthusiasts, and then disappear for another couple of years.

Davis137
May 10, 2010, 1:08 AM
It'd be awesome if they start prepping the land for excavation...

Mille Sabords
May 11, 2010, 12:51 AM
Richcraft appears to be building a giant fence around the site, with the exception of one section that has been flattened and covered with gravel. One could suppose that a sales trailer will one day be placed upon that gravel, but I'll believe it when I see it.

Based on the way they've been dealing with this site to date, I wouldn't put it past them to put up a giant wooden fence for the benefit of local spray paint enthusiasts, and then disappear for another couple of years.

I believe the fencing may have more to do with preventing illegal dumping on the site, which has happened here. There are apparently some midnight dumpster cowboys out there who just pull up with their pick up and let go of a loadfull of garbage on empty lots.

rodionx
May 12, 2010, 2:14 AM
I believe the fencing may have more to do with preventing illegal dumping on the site, which has happened here. There are apparently some midnight dumpster cowboys out there who just pull up with their pick up and let go of a loadfull of garbage on empty lots.

Awwww. I think you're right. They used to have a sign up warning people of dire consequences for dumping there. The posts are set in concrete, so they must be hunkering down for a long wait. At least there's no asphalt. In a few years, it'll be a lovely urban meadow.

blackjagger
Dec 15, 2010, 8:50 PM
http://www.dcnonl.com/cgi-bin/top10.pl?rm=show_top10_project&id=34be1115a3a0ee7e5796ab8d61955da15bcc962f&projectid=9118200&region=ontario

DCN has it reported with a June 2011 start date, lets see what happens.

Cheers,
Josh

rodionx
Jan 3, 2011, 11:54 PM
I hesitate to point this out, since this is a company that had a sign up reading "Lifestyle condos coming soon" for at least four years, but Richcraft has placed a banner on the site announcing something along the lines of, "preferred registration for Lifestyle condos starting soon." Their sales trailer on Gloucester appears to be pretty much complete as well.

The graffiti and dog poop - already part of the Richcraft signature - remain.

waterloowarrior
Feb 12, 2011, 3:53 PM
from today's paper
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5018/5438383431_b2cd47da56_z.jpg

gjhall
Feb 12, 2011, 5:59 PM
That rendering is a massive disappointment. - Surely they could find a way to buy the remaining properties to avoid these awkward cut outs for Ricardo Pizza, etc.

A big box with no meaningful design. No podium or setbacks, no breaking up the bulk. Hopefully this is only a preliminary rendering...

agrigentum
Feb 12, 2011, 6:23 PM
Wow, that looks ridiculous.

danny the dog
Feb 12, 2011, 6:30 PM
Seriously!? Oh for God sakes.

Luker
Feb 12, 2011, 8:57 PM
Other than density, this building has nothing to offer. Surely one of the most disappointing projects long-term wise and now in preliminary planning stages as well. Bahh!

rodionx
Feb 12, 2011, 9:09 PM
OMG that's so bad it's funny. I can't even summon outrage. Is that even a rendering? Do you think they just gave their marketing person a picture of the site and said "draw something that looks like a building and fits, ok?" It actually does kind of look like two buildings photoshopped together. No one would actually "design" a building to look like that, would they? Would they....? :stunned:

kwoldtimer
Feb 12, 2011, 11:52 PM
One can only pray that that isn't an accurate rendering. It looks like some kind of homage to the crappy Centretown apartment blocks of the past. :yuck:

citizen j
Feb 13, 2011, 12:04 AM
I can picture the meeting that produced this rendering:
"Okay, we want to go for something that virtually anaesthetizes potential buyers and looks like it's been there for 35 years. I'm thinking protruding balconies, I'm thinking concrete and red brick, I'm thinking condo meets retirement home. Show me what you got!"

(I seriously hope someone from Richcraft is lurking here. Back to the drawing board, kids!)

Uhuniau
Feb 13, 2011, 12:46 AM
One can only pray that that isn't an accurate rendering. It looks like some kind of homage to the crappy Centretown apartment blocks of the past. :yuck:

That should make the NIMBY's happy; it "fits" the neighbourhood, and reflects the "character" and "heritage" of the built environment! :)

Uhuniau
Feb 13, 2011, 12:47 AM
No podium or setbacks

Good. That's about the only thing the design has going for it.

Uhuniau
Feb 13, 2011, 12:48 AM
I hesitate to point this out, since this is a company that had a sign up reading "Lifestyle condos coming soon" for at least four years, but Richcraft has placed a banner on the site announcing something along the lines of, "preferred registration for Lifestyle condos starting soon." Their sales trailer on Gloucester appears to be pretty much complete as well.


Is it wrong that I keep mis-reading that as "Lifestyle Condoms"?

gjhall
Feb 14, 2011, 12:03 AM
Good. That's about the only thing the design has going for it.

To be clear, I only suggested podiums or setbacks as elements of style examples. Pretty much any change would improve this building.

It's also entirely too squat.

harls
Feb 14, 2011, 1:22 AM
It completely dominates those buildings on the corners.. sort of a big 'fuck you' for not being bought off when they were trying to acquire the entire city block.

cityguy
Feb 14, 2011, 3:28 AM
It's just so so bad.This building just defies logic.

AuxTown
Feb 14, 2011, 3:59 AM
It's clearly just a way to maximize the number of units on that parcel of land using the cheapest materials possible. The result, frightening. All the more reason to re-visit Ottawa's obsession with squat.

Jamaican-Phoenix
Feb 14, 2011, 2:02 PM
I hope this doesn't get built in that form. Yuck.

danny the dog
Feb 14, 2011, 8:09 PM
I'd be interested to know what the councilor thinks of this project.

Mille Sabords
Feb 15, 2011, 1:19 AM
Is it wrong that I keep mis-reading that as "Lifestyle Condoms"?

Well, Lifestyles are reasonably comfortable condoms.

Uhuniau
Feb 15, 2011, 2:42 AM
Well, Lifestyles are reasonably comfortable condoms.

Quite possibly the least-ringing endorsement I've ever read of anything.