[Jamaican-Phoenix]

Post in this thread for all things Gatinois relating to integrated transit, development, etc.

Speaking of, what's the deal about Ottawa and Gatineau making a Joint Transit Committee or something along the lines of that?

[jeremy_haak]

For that matter, it would be cool if Gatineau were integrated with the SSP:Local. Instead of SSP:Local Ottawa, make it SSP:Local Ottawa-Gatineau or something along those lines. I'm not really sure why the two forums aren't integrated, except perhaps for language lines. I, for one, don't understand why this can't be a bilingual affair.

[harls]

There are quite a few projects in Gatineau that could be included in the construction thread for Ottawa.. just makes sense since we're all one big metro, no?

[Jamaican-Phoenix]

There are quite a few projects in Gatineau that could be included in the construction thread for Ottawa.. just makes sense since we're all one big metro, no?

Well I tend to see Ottawa-Gatineau as one big metro of 1.25M people. :)

[Mille Sabords]

Well I tend to see Ottawa-Gatineau as one big metro of 1.25M people. :)

Entièrement d'accord. Gatineau guys are you in?

[Jamaican-Phoenix]

Speaking fo Gatineau, I just got a brainstorm of an idea for the old Domtar site. It was assuming that Ottawa gets Expo 2017(hey, I can dream)...


I know that in the immediate area of the Domtar site, we have numerous Government of Canada Offices, namely those of the Department of the Environment and the Canadian Radio-televison and telecommunications Commision. Lets also not forget that Gatineau Park is a stone's throw away and home to a wide variety of life(according to eco-sites). SO here's what I'm thinking for the old Domtar site...

First, in terms of roads, extend Rue Laval down through the Domtar site until it curves to meet up with the road that will lead it west to the Eddy/Booth St. Bridge. East of the Rue Laval extension, build a new international facility for teh development of Environmentally friendly technologies and find innovative new ways to help make our planet better. You call it the "International Centre for the Development of Environmental Technologies" or something like that.

To the west of teh Rue Laval Extension will be a new 40-45 storey tall signature tower that will house commercial space/business offices/government offices and of course, condos(kinda like 150 Elgin, only taller). Also nearby would be two small business buildings(8-15 storeys tall), a 20 storey tall Condo development, a park and a hotel, which will accomodate increased people-traffic due to the new Centre that I propose.

[Jamaican-Phoenix]

http://maps.live.com/#JnE9Y2wuR2F0aW5lYXUlN2Vzc3QuMSU3ZXBnLjEmYmI9NDUuNDI1MTQyMzYzMTAxOCU3ZS03NS43MTE4NzI1Nzc2NjczJTdlNDUuNDIyMDMyNDE1NTA0MyU3ZS03NS43MjI2ODcyNDQ0MTUz

Hope the map works...

[harls]

^ It's not working for me.

If we were to list Gatineau projects, where would we put them? suburbs??

[Jamaican-Phoenix]

Dang. How about now?

http://maps.live.com/?v=2&cid=FA1A79350DA030E!243&encType=1

[Jamaican-Phoenix]

If we were to list Gatineau projects, where would we put them? suburbs??

Probably in urban unless they actually were suburban developments.

[harls]

That's the thing.. What would be considered 'urban' then? the old city of Hull? There are a few lowrise projects in the old city of Gatineau, but it has a suburban feel to it. I don't want to start a thread and have people bitching it should be someplace else :)

[Cre47]

It should have it's own forum under Land and Development. I could transfer the list from Gatineau: Les Projets. The forum in the SSP:Ottawa can be in English (I could translate the list of projects), however, I would like that the French thread in the Quebec forum be kept, so more people outside of the region will see the development situation in Gatineau.

[harls]

Agreed. So how do we make this happen? Mike K, can you create this?

[Acajack]

I’m not the most senior forumer, but I’ll give my two cents worth.

Don’t really care where the Gatineau thread is domiciled, as long it remains a predominantly French-language forum.

[gatt]

if language is going to be a problem it should stay in the Québec forum.

[harls]

On peut avoir les discussions en deux langues, moi j'ai aucune problème avec ça.. si qq'un a besoin un explanation de quelque chose, nous pouvons le faire (ou moi, en tout cas, j'suis game).

[Jamaican-Phoenix]

:previous: Moi assui, mais je ne peux pas parler le francais tellement bien... :(

Mais je fais un effort. ;)

[jeremy_haak]

I like the idea of having both forums integrated to an extant because I suspect that there will be more interest on the Ottawa-side in Gatineau projects. I also like the idea of maintaining discussion in French. I occasionally visit a forum regarding YUL (http://www.yulaviation.com/vbb/forumdisplay.php?f=5), and the their forum is bilingual, and some people post in French and others in English. I can't guarantee that any attempt of mine to post in French would be even remotely legible, but I can understand French fairly well. With the two forums separated across two provinces, I know I never visited the Gatineau thread. Perhaps moving them together would change that. I'd also support renaming the forum the Ottawa-Gatineau in such a situation.

[Mike K.]

So, if I understand it correctly, you guys would like a Gatineau sub-forum under Construction and Land Development? If so I can set that up.

[Mille Sabords]

So, if I understand it correctly, you guys would like a Gatineau sub-forum under Construction and Land Development? If so I can set that up.

That's not exactly it. I think the thing to do here would be to rename the entire SSP as Ottawa-Gatineau and keep the headings and threads as they are. Gatineau can have headings under Urban Design and Heritage Issues, it can have threads under Transportation, under Development Projects, etc. but they would all be in the Ottawa-Gatineau local SSP.

[Mike K.]

How about we rename the descriptors under the heading names? If people tend to associate Gatineau with Ottawa anyways I'd prefer to just add G to the descriptors of the sub-forums and keep the SSP:L title as short as possible.

[Mille Sabords]

How about we rename the descriptors under the heading names? If people tend to associate Gatineau with Ottawa anyways I'd prefer to just add G to the descriptors of the sub-forums and keep the SSP:L title as short as possible.

I don't think you'll get the buy-in from Gatineau folks that way. If we bring them both together then it has to be under Ottawa-Gatineau.

[harls]

Does anyone object to me starting a couple of Gatineau project threads in the construction section?

[jeremy_haak]

Does anyone object to me starting a couple of Gatineau project threads in the construction section?

I think that would be great. It would be even better if it was in its own folder. Are you able to do that as the moderator?

[harls]

I don't think so, my superpowers are limited. :D

I'll make some threads in the meantime, and we can move them later on if need be.

[agrigentum]

I'm in favour of an Ottawa-Gatineau local SPP. Forumers should be able to post in both French and English like the YUL forum.

[Mike K.]

SO last night I changed the SSP:L name to include Gatineau. Should I make any changes to the descriptors of the forums? If so, what should I change?

[gatt]

new 20 storey's+ towers for the vieux-hull.
http://www.cyberpresse.ca/article/20080115/CPACTUALITES/801150354/6784/CPDROIT

[waterloowarrior]

http://www.canada.com/ottawacitizen/news/story.html?id=7a149178-ddc1-4dfa-bef3-9ec0710d9740&k=89792

[Jamaican-Phoenix]

Man, Gatineau is doing just about everything right these days... :(

[Acajack]

Well, we’ve got so much catching up to do...

[Cre47]

Certainly in favor for some towers but, if it is brings more people and life in the downtown Gatineau core and as long it does not multiply destruction of older structures in which lower classes can only afford.

[Kitchissippi]

Bring back the bars! The rowdy atmosphere in the past was due to the inability of the Hull police to control things. There are streets in Montreal that have a higher number of bars and patrons than du Portage ever did and they manage to keep things in relative order. It's funny how they talk about the atmosphere in the ByWard Market today... it's what they had and they killed it.

[gatt]

i don't think the problem was the former police de Hull.the problem was that so many let's say young adults wanted to come in Hull to fight.it was a tourist attraction.but the real reason for the decline of old-Hull was the construction of gouvernment buildings.for what i've been told(i only arrived here in 92)by people who grew up there.

[Kitchissippi]

Those government buildings were built in the 70's and du Portage was hopping wild in the 80's. I should know I was out in Hull every weekend! I remember one night after the Conservative leadership convention in 1983 (when Mulroney was chosen as leader) the bars were so crowded that people just spilled out into the street and cars could no longer pass. It rivaled Crescent street in Montreal (which still manages to draw a crowd today).

No, the real problem was that the Hull police lost control of the criminal elements (drugs in the bars, hooligans in the streets). They got a bit trigger-happy at the end, killing some guy's dog and shooting someone. Instead of improving the situation by putting some money into better and more effective policing, the Hull council decided to kill the golden goose and revoke the bars' licenses and not allow any more bars on the strip. Ontario decision to extend drinking hours was also a nail in the coffin because there used to be a 2 hour difference in last call across the river.

[BlackRedGold]

i don't think the problem was the former police de Hull.the problem was that so many let's say young adults wanted to come in Hull to fight.

Well, the underagers from Ontario were attracted to the cheap booze specials and tacky clubs. Mix a bunch of highschoolers with a whole lot of alcohol and you've got fights.

But the Hull cops were scary with their power trips and blatant bigotry.

[gatt]

i remember those days.had a lot of fun.never really had problems except maybe one time with a very very big guy from Ottawa.but outside the bars hours there was no life on du Portage at all.the last nail in the coffin was something they had to do(closing something like 20 of the 25 bars or so on this very small street).what i don't like is that they so long to bring back life in the vieux-hull.we need a real downtown that have somekind of life during the day and in the evening.like a real city.

[Acajack]

As Gatt alluded to, the Byward Market, in addition to its vibrant bar scene, has a farmer’s market, shops, nice restaurants, and generally a whole lot more to offer at all hours of the day to all kinds of people than the Promenade du Portage ever did even in its notorious heyday.

The same is true for the areas around Ste-Catherine in Montreal.

Plus, you had what I call the Tijuana phenomenon on Portage that you don’t have in the market:

- This ain’t my town/place, don’t know anybody here, so I can let it all hang out;
- Their women are loose, their cops are corrupt, there are no laws here;
- French vs. English.

OK, so many of the people on Crescent in Montreal may be anglos, but most of them are locals and Montreal is still their town in their minds.

You get this type of culture clash every place where large numbers of people from a different culture go to party in someone else’s backyard: Americans in Tijuana, Brits and Germans in Ibiza, Australians in Bali...

The difference on Portage was that it was so close and that there was no real border between home and the place that felt “foreign”.

[clynnog]

It rivaled Crescent street in Montreal (which still manages to draw a crowd today).
.

Off topic observation (slightly)

I was in Montreal on Tuesday and Wednesday and took a stroll Tuesday evening. Walking down Crescent I noticed the parking meters in which you pay at a central machine for your parking stall, get a ticket and keep it on you. You don't put it in your window to show that you are paid up until a certain time. Is this standard in Mtl...it seemed odd.

[Kitchissippi]

Off topic observation (slightly)

I was in Montreal on Tuesday and Wednesday and took a stroll Tuesday evening. Walking down Crescent I noticed the parking meters in which you pay at a central machine for your parking stall, get a ticket and keep it on you. You don't put it in your window to show that you are paid up until a certain time. Is this standard in Mtl...it seemed odd.

You are supposed to put those tickets in your dashboard, but I guess the control guy gets the expired meter info through a wireless connection and can tell which spots are paid up. Of course the city pockets quite a bit of extra money because there is no telling if there is time left on a spot. I do like that you can pay by credit card though.

[Mille Sabords]

As Gatt alluded to, the Byward Market, in addition to its vibrant bar scene, has a farmer’s market, shops, nice restaurants, and generally a whole lot more to offer at all hours of the day to all kinds of people than the Promenade du Portage ever did even in its notorious heyday.

The same is true for the areas around Ste-Catherine in Montreal.

Plus, you had what I call the Tijuana phenomenon on Portage that you don’t have in the market:

- This ain’t my town/place, don’t know anybody here, so I can let it all hang out;
- Their women are loose, their cops are corrupt, there are no laws here;
- French vs. English.

OK, so many of the people on Crescent in Montreal may be anglos, but most of them are locals and Montreal is still their town in their minds.

You get this type of culture clash every place where large numbers of people from a different culture go to party in someone else’s backyard: Americans in Tijuana, Brits and Germans in Ibiza, Australians in Bali...

The difference on Portage was that it was so close and that there was no real border between home and the place that felt “foreign”.

He's right about the Tijuana syndrome. Call it bigotry or whatever you like, truth is the animosity went both ways. Ontario kids wanted to fight, puke and scream unfettered on the streets of Hull, and couldn't believe the audacity of these French cops who dared stop them. Hull cops were fed up with Ontario kids and wanted to crack as many of their skulls as possible. One bad brew.

[Acajack]

Thousands of teenagers from across the river taking advantage of laxer liquor laws is not exactly a good foundation on which to build a vibrant downtown sector.

Promenade du Portage and downtown Hull in general was completely dead in those days except for public service lunch hours on weekdays and very late at night when the horde from Ottawa crossed the bridge. There was nary a soul to be found there at 9 pm on warm summer Saturday night or a sunny Sunday afternoon. Most sensible people from the Outaouais side of the river generally avoided the area like the plague, which might partly explain why many nightlife spots developed further away from the river deeper into Hull and the old city of Gatineau. A lot of people wanted to get away from the louts.

All in all, though I personally had some good times on Portage when I was young, from the city’s perspective it was a situation that couldn’t go on for much longer. Besides, the only real beneficiaries of the party zone were the breweries, a handful of bar owners (many of whom were actually Ottawa residents) and the Hull cops’ overtime cheques.

RIP The Strip

[clynnog]

Thousands of teenagers from across the river taking advantage of laxer liquor laws is not exactly a good foundation on which to build a vibrant downtown sector.


A great example of this is Niagara Falls New York....the downtown (or what is left of it) was in its prime full of bars offering all sorts of drink specials for Canadians from the Niagara Region and further afield. Most of the drinks specials were watered down no name drinks.

[gatt]

Harls put it in the Gatineau section in quebec forum.
http://www.cyberpresse.ca/article/20080229/CPACTUALITES/802290357/6784/CPDROIT

[Kitchissippi]

:previous: The Columbia Farm is such a sad victim of poor urban planning. They should just move that building to an appropriate pastoral location (it would make a nice visitor centre for Gatineau Park at Gamelin) than tack on a monstrosity like that. It looks like the Burj Al Arab (http://www.funonthenet.in/images/stories/forwards/tallest-buildings/Burj%20al%20Arab.jpg) is growing behind it.

No way is the National Portrait Gallery going to move in front of a Cora's and between half-baked shopping malls

[harls]

Didn't you have plans to turn it into a subway station? :)

[Kitchissippi]

Didn't you have plans to turn it into a subway station? :)

Why, yes. But that's just as possible as this happening :haha: :
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3244/2300383321_5a5bf9c019_b.jpg

This is what will happen if Quebec separates and decides to really screw up Ottawa's height limits :D

[harls]

Yikes! :laugh:

[Acajack]

Yes, that’s going to be the “Tour Lévesque-Parizeau”. Judging from the picture, it will be erected on the site of the present-day (decrepit) Motel Duvernay! You can’t see it in this rendering but the first few floors of the 250-storey skyscraper will actually be the fully restored historic Chez Henri!

[harls]

Posted in the Gatineau Thread in the Quebec Section - calling for a relaxation of height limits in downtown.

the Heafey Group wants to be able to build a 20 storey tower facing Jacques-Cartier Park, right now the limit is 15..

the City wants density, builders want height.

http://www.cyberpresse.ca/article/20080304/CPDROIT/80303244/6784/CPDROIT

Interesting note - the article states that downtown Gatineau (Hull) has lost 1500 residents since 1986.

[Kitchissippi]

Does anyone have the link to that document that the city of Gatineau put out with concepts for the future downtown vision? I can't seem to find it in their website and I wanted to show someone the sketches that were in it.

[harls]

This one?

http://www.ville.gatineau.qc.ca/pdf/consultations_publiques/centre-ville/proposition_amenagements.en.pdf

[Dado]

:previous:

And the planning myopia continues... I see nothing in there about dealing with the large number of Ottawans commuting across the river to jobs in Hull; transit is offered only as an option for people from Gatineau.

I'm a little concerned that this 'Place Philemon' will turn into an excuse to close the rail spur corridor; it could incorporate a buried corridor but that requires the vision to ensure that happens. I wonder why there wasn't a picture of a half dozen OC Transpo artics wrapped around poles...

[Kitchissippi]

This one?

http://www.ville.gatineau.qc.ca/pdf/consultations_publiques/centre-ville/proposition_amenagements.en.pdf

Thanks, that's the one.