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Luker
May 23, 2013, 5:59 PM
So these 10-15K people require 2-3 new schools, while the same number of new residents in the Bayview-Carling corridor require 0? How does that work?

This!@!!

NOWINYOW
May 23, 2013, 6:01 PM
My preference is the grid system. I'm not a fan of weaving roads.

Just because land is set aside for schools, doesn't mean one, two or three will be built. That would be up to the two school boards to decide. And they're not going to build until the demand is sufficient.

Luker
May 23, 2013, 6:04 PM
Highrises at Hemlock and Aviation Parkway (which won't even have access once they put the bridge in? Are they thinking straight?

If there were demand for highrises, they would be built along Montreal Rd between Codds Road and Burma. Granted, that is not part of the CLC site, but it shows what land is worth. That whole area is a disgusting strip mall mess. Perhaps we should wait until that area is cleaned up and densified before we think about mowing down the Rockcliffe Base (which has no good road connections anyway).

You make valid and strong points; however, I don't believe that result must necessarily be to wait for 'natural' gentrification to occur before the city/public/nation can take an interest in improving and intensifying the area. Especially considering its prominent and central location along with its historical context.

McC
May 23, 2013, 6:15 PM
Just because land is set aside for schools, doesn't mean one, two or three will be built. That would be up to the two school boards to decide. And they're not going to build until the demand is sufficient.

The point is that the plan does set aside land for schools, whereas the Bayview-Carling CDP does not set out anything for new or expanded schools.

McC
May 23, 2013, 6:16 PM
no matter which option they go with, the area will be a bit of an island.

JM1
May 23, 2013, 7:19 PM
An island or a throughway? My guess is that it will become a thruway for those in the East end to get onto hemlock and drive through to St Patrick.

The problem with this location has mainly to do with the road connections which suck. Hemlock is listed as an arterial but will never be able to handle more traffic due to the constriction along the Beechwood corridor. Adding more buses to that corridor will further complicate things.

I just don't see a solution to the problems either through car or transit use (unless there is a Montreal LRT that runs through this campus, which is very unlikely).

The only solution might be to expand Blair and use it as an access through the NRC campus, but unfortunately I don't even think that would work as the main demand line will be from the CLC site along Hemlock or Montreal to downtown (both routes are already congested and that is before a Kettle Island bridge further complicates matters).

no matter which option they go with, the area will be a bit of an island.

J.OT13
May 23, 2013, 10:59 PM
Transit spine... So buses or a toy choo choo train to Blair?

eternallyme
May 24, 2013, 1:48 AM
http://img829.imageshack.us/img829/9158/rockcliffetransit.jpg

I posted this earlier in the thread on Page 4. Bringing it back up to see - Plan A (Curvilinear) seems to fit well with that plan but Plan B (Grid) also works. This is the eastern part of the widely-thought-of Rideau Street-Montreal Road subway (which would curve back onto Bank Street).

eternallyme
May 24, 2013, 1:51 AM
Highrises at Hemlock and Aviation Parkway (which won't even have access once they put the bridge in? Are they thinking straight?

If there were demand for highrises, they would be built along Montreal Rd between Codds Road and Burma. Granted, that is not part of the CLC site, but it shows what land is worth. That whole area is a disgusting strip mall mess. Perhaps we should wait until that area is cleaned up and densified before we think about mowing down the Rockcliffe Base (which has no good road connections anyway).

I recommend all employment where that high rise on the west side is, and high rises located at the southern end of where the midrise central area is (which is where I recommend a transit station). Densities should be highest in the central and eastern parts, and lowest in the western and northern edges.

J.OT13
May 24, 2013, 2:37 AM
http://img829.imageshack.us/img829/9158/rockcliffetransit.jpg

I posted this earlier in the thread on Page 4. Bringing it back up to see - Plan A (Curvilinear) seems to fit well with that plan but Plan B (Grid) also works. This is the eastern part of the widely-thought-of Rideau Street-Montreal Road subway (which would curve back onto Bank Street).

That's what I'm routing for, a fully grade separated Bank-Rideau-Montreal subway line serving the CFB.

But it likely won't happen, at least not until someone with big vision comes along like an Ottawa version of Jean Drapeau or a modern version of Mackenzie King (Jacque Gréber plan was a hit (Gatineau Park) and miss (taking out trams and closing Union Station), but we can't deny that the Federal Government under Mackenzie King likely invested more money in Ottawa than any other government after.

JM1
May 24, 2013, 1:32 PM
"All employment..on the west side"? Does this mean you want all employment at Hemlock and Avaition? I would have thought it to be better place on Montreal Road where it is closer to transit.

I recommend all employment where that high rise on the west side is, and high rises located at the southern end of where the midrise central area is (which is where I recommend a transit station). Densities should be highest in the central and eastern parts, and lowest in the western and northern edges.

archie-tect
May 24, 2013, 4:30 PM
Generally speaking the site's potential is high being inside the green belt and would support low to mid-rise quite well. But, I have to agree with other commenters that the traffic flow in and out needs to be addressed. To the west an additional connection to Aviation could be added, to the south a couple more streets could be extended north into the development and to the east additional connections to Blair could be provided. Connecting to Blair would require going through NRC lands, which given recent less than stellar mandate modifications, may require less land/buildings.

I cannot see how Hemlock can support much more traffic. It is more of a Traditional Main Street in scale than an Arterial.

It would be great to see this as part of a Secondary plan for Montreal/St. Laurent up to Hemlock as this area could easily accommodate more development along major routes. Perhaps then the Base would feel like less of an island

TMA-1
Dec 27, 2013, 11:18 PM
Looks like it to me - any experts know what's going on?


http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5523/11592626663_6a2ba368fa_c.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/23575605@N08/11592626663/)
_8052757 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/23575605@N08/11592626663/) by southfacing (http://www.flickr.com/people/23575605@N08/), on Flickr

Postmaster
Dec 29, 2013, 3:46 AM
It seems you need a passcard to access the area now. I occasionally deliver mail in the area and there was an access gate the last time i checked it out. Seems to be the case at the Codd's road access anyhow.

c_speed3108
Dec 30, 2013, 2:12 PM
If I were to guess:

Some CMHC staff used to rent parking from Canlands across the street (where buildings are now going up). Additionally, CMHC was doing parking garage work in the summer.

I am wondering if someone decided to setup a parking annex with a shuttle bus on the old parade square either because the garage work didn't get done and they wanted to get the cars off the grass before winter or there is a parking shortage.

Again. That's a guess. The hospital could be another guess.

phil235
Dec 30, 2013, 8:24 PM
If I were to guess:

Some CMHC staff used to rent parking from Canlands across the street (where buildings are now going up). Additionally, CMHC was doing parking garage work in the summer.

I am wondering if someone decided to setup a parking annex with a shuttle bus on the old parade square either because the garage work didn't get done and they wanted to get the cars off the grass before winter or there is a parking shortage.

Again. That's a guess. The hospital could be another guess.


It's not CMHC. But it could be the hospital, or Public Works, who rents space in the CMHC building.

Capital Shaun
Dec 31, 2013, 2:03 AM
It's not CMHC. But it could be the hospital, or Public Works, who rents space in the CMHC building.

The Public Works people in the CMHC building are now with Shared Services Canada. I have no idea who is using that parking lot at CFB Rockcliffe.

c_speed3108
Dec 31, 2013, 1:07 PM
Well whomever it is has certainly put enough into the setup. Lighting, bus shelters etc. Definitely not too temporary. Also looks like the bus has made enough runs.

There are a few possibilities in that area. La Cite, Hospital, possibly even something to do with CSIS or the new CSE place.

Offsite parking with shuttle buses seems to be gaining popularity around the city. I know the civic hospital uses some.

waterloowarrior
Jan 23, 2014, 1:19 AM
Upcoming Community Consultation event
http://www.clcrockcliffe.ca/en/news/upcoming-community-consultation-event
Canada Lands Company is pleased to announce that the third community consultation event is scheduled to take place on February 18, 2014.

Location: Hampton Inn, Overbrook

Time: 3pm – 9pm

Format: Open house, with presentations at 4pm and 7pm (both presentations will be identical).

rocketphish
Feb 14, 2014, 4:00 AM
Upcoming Community Consultation event
http://www.clcrockcliffe.ca/en/news/upcoming-community-consultation-event
Canada Lands Company is pleased to announce that the third community consultation event is scheduled to take place on February 18, 2014.

Location: Hampton Inn, Overbrook

Time: 3pm – 9pm

Format: Open house, with presentations at 4pm and 7pm (both presentations will be identical).

Supporting documents:

Public Consultation Report No. 2 - December 2013
http://www.clcrockcliffe.ca/sites/default/files/resource_documents/PublicConsultationReport_No2_Jan2014_final.pdf

APPENDIX 5 - Guiding Design Vision and Principles
http://www.clcrockcliffe.ca/sites/default/files/resource_documents/Vision and Principles.pdf

JM1
Feb 14, 2014, 5:21 AM
Interesting. Despite statements about not wanting to create through traffic, the proposal does just that. I don't see any steps they've taken to limit through traffic. The problem will be even worse for those in the communities west of the airbase. Proposing that Hamlock be connected with new ramps onto Aviation Parkway to the south is just inviting an Aviation/Hemlock route between the Quebec bridges and the 417. I wonder how that will fly.

Supporting documents:

Public Consultation Report No. 2 - December 2013
http://www.clcrockcliffe.ca/sites/default/files/resource_documents/PublicConsultationReport_No2_Jan2014_final.pdf

APPENDIX 5 - Guiding Design Vision and Principles
http://www.clcrockcliffe.ca/sites/default/files/resource_documents/Vision and Principles.pdf

J.OT13
Feb 14, 2014, 2:31 PM
We have so many redevelopments on the go and so little demand for new developments, not to mention the complete lack of rapid transit at the base, I don't understand why we're wasting time and money on this.

OTSkyline
Feb 14, 2014, 5:38 PM
The city approves lots of these community developments every year in the suburbs and they keep getting built very fast (think of barrhaven or that new community in Orleans next to Trim). How can these be proposed with streets, infrastructure, schools, parks everything and get built right away but this "new" community within the greenbelt would take forever to convert/built?

Just do it already... They can't say it's because of lack of demand. The demand for downtown 250K condo units might have fallen but a "central" community filled with well-priced mid-rises and townhomes would be very sucessful IMO.

JM1
Feb 14, 2014, 6:22 PM
Ask a real estate agent how business is these days. If they are honest, they will say "slow". Previous developments beat the downturn. This one won't beat it. I would think hard about buying there even though I love the location. I don't want to be surrounded by half-built construction lots for the next two decades.

The city approves lots of these community developments every year in the suburbs and they keep getting built very fast (think of barrhaven or that new community in Orleans next to Trim). How can these be proposed with streets, infrastructure, schools, parks everything and get built right away but this "new" community within the greenbelt would take forever to convert/built?

Just do it already... They can't say it's because of lack of demand. The demand for downtown 250K condo units might have fallen but a "central" community filled with well-priced mid-rises and townhomes would be very sucessful IMO.

kevinbottawa
Feb 14, 2014, 8:08 PM
The city approves lots of these community developments every year in the suburbs and they keep getting built very fast (think of barrhaven or that new community in Orleans next to Trim). How can these be proposed with streets, infrastructure, schools, parks everything and get built right away but this "new" community within the greenbelt would take forever to convert/built?

Just do it already... They can't say it's because of lack of demand. The demand for downtown 250K condo units might have fallen but a "central" community filled with well-priced mid-rises and townhomes would be very sucessful IMO.

Seeing that proposals are usually driven by the private sector and this one is being driven by a federal agency that's accountable to a First Nations group, that's not surprising.

Uhuniau
Feb 14, 2014, 10:43 PM
Why is documentation for such things always so heavy on process-oriented unformation, and so light on useful things like maps, plans, charts, and diagrams of the actual thing to be built?

LRT consultations were the same way. Lots of flowcharts about the process. Crappy maps.

waterloowarrior
Feb 18, 2014, 11:38 PM
Lots of maps now available from tonight's open house


display boards (3 files)
http://www.clcrockcliffe.ca/sites/default/files/resource_documents/Poster%20Boards-Feb18_2014%20-%20Final%20%281%20of%203%29.pdf

http://www.clcrockcliffe.ca/sites/default/files/resource_documents/Poster%20Boards-Feb18_2014%20-%20Final%20%282%20of%203%29.pdf

http://www.clcrockcliffe.ca/sites/default/files/resource_documents/Poster%20Boards-Feb18_2014%20-%20Final%20%283%20of%203%29.pdf



presentation
http://www.clcrockcliffe.ca/sites/default/files/resource_documents/POH3%20EN.pdf

lrt's friend
Feb 19, 2014, 12:33 AM
I noticed one comment about adding aboriginal names.

You know, I never knew very much about aboriginal history in the Ottawa area. I thought it was my ignorance until I did a little reading today. I learned today that there were only about 200 Algonquins in all of eastern Ontario at the time of European settlement, and they were mostly in the back country. That is why the reserve is at Golden Lake. I also learned that settlement was generally cooperative because of the harsh environment and climate. There was not the conflict that existed in the American west.

I do hope that names will be assigned for meaningful reasons rather than for token restitution or to be politically correct. I can think of much better ways to honour our first nations neighbours.

JM1
Feb 19, 2014, 5:00 AM
Can anyone report on how the consultation went this evening. I had meant to go, but I missed it.

I looked at the documents. From what I see, they have done nothing to address traffic issues. All of the traffic from the communnity will be funnelled into Hemlock Road. What is more, the new planned ramps from Northbound Aviation Parkway to Hemlock will create a lot of new traffic on a a new Aviation/Hemlock corridor that does not currently exist.

I am also skeptical at the overall mass of construction. I don't think the two employment centres are realistic given that transportation will be such an issue. My guess is that the TODs at St. Laurent, Train, and Blair will be built up long before anyone builds a 20-story office tower at the corner of Hemlock and Aviation. From there, even a walk up to the centre of the new community will bee quite a hike for a short lunch break.

This site needs an LRT or (should I say it again) an urban gondola connection to make it viable. With just buses, it will never be seen as a forward looking community. It will just be another mass of buildings -- like Tunney's Pasture (although without transit) or like Central Park.


Lots of maps now available from tonight's open house


display boards (3 files)
http://www.clcrockcliffe.ca/sites/default/files/resource_documents/Poster%20Boards-Feb18_2014%20-%20Final%20%281%20of%203%29.pdf

http://www.clcrockcliffe.ca/sites/default/files/resource_documents/Poster%20Boards-Feb18_2014%20-%20Final%20%282%20of%203%29.pdf

http://www.clcrockcliffe.ca/sites/default/files/resource_documents/Poster%20Boards-Feb18_2014%20-%20Final%20%283%20of%203%29.pdf



presentation
http://www.clcrockcliffe.ca/sites/default/files/resource_documents/POH3%20EN.pdf

Harley613
Feb 19, 2014, 5:49 AM
I noticed one comment about adding aboriginal names.

You know, I never knew very much about aboriginal history in the Ottawa area. I thought it was my ignorance until I did a little reading today. I learned today that there were only about 200 Algonquins in all of eastern Ontario at the time of European settlement, and they were mostly in the back country. .

very interesting..do you have a source?

Uhuniau
Feb 19, 2014, 6:43 AM
Why is documentation for such things always so heavy on process-oriented unformation, and so light on useful things like maps, plans, charts, and diagrams of the actual thing to be built?

LRT consultations were the same way. Lots of flowcharts about the process. Crappy maps.

Honest to...

"Specific question about next steps? Come to Process Station."

rocketphish
Feb 19, 2014, 12:50 PM
Proposed makeover for former CFB Rockliffe has ‘got it pretty much right’: planner

By Robert Sibley, OTTAWA CITIZEN February 18, 2014

http://www.ottawacitizen.com/news/ottawa/cms/binary/9522741.jpg

OTTAWA — It’s like a small town dropping in on the big city. That is how Ottawans might regard their newest neighbourhood-in-waiting after Canada Lands Company unveiled its plans for the former Canadian Forces Base Rockcliffe.

Canada Lands, the Crown corporation that owns the 125-hectare site, held a public meeting Tuesday to reveal its intention to a mixed-use district of about 5,200 houses and apartments for 10,000 to 15,000 residents. The one-time military base, located a mere five kilometres from Parliament Hill, is the largest development parcel of land within the Greenbelt. It occupies an escarpment overlooking the Ottawa River valley, east of St. Laurent Boulevard and north of Montreal Road. The area is surrounded by other mature neighbourhoods and communities such as Manor Park, Rockcliffe Park, Rothwell Heights, Fairhaven, Thorncliffe Park and Vanier.

The plan, which will likely be submitted to the City of Ottawa this spring, is the culmination of a series of public consultations, workshops and studies that CLC has conducted over the last few years. On Tuesday evening, company officials expressed confidence that their project will find general acceptance with both the public and the politicians.

“We’ve listened to what people have told us and we think we’ve got it pretty much right,” said Don Schultz, real estate director for the Rockcliffe project.

Certainly, there were those who thought a few things — for example, where’s the health centre? Why no housing for seniors? What about a wetland to attract frogs and dragonflies? — needed more attention. One streetwise observer warned that “a pathway at the back of retail stores is asking for trouble.” Another questioned why six- to eight-storey apartments were proposed for a well-treed area that once housed officers and their families. And, of course, there were some who thought Canada Lands was “ruining a beautiful parkland ... by this awful intensification.”

By and large, though, those who attended Tuesday’s presentation gave CLC credit for taking area residents’ concerns to heart. “There’s a few glitches, but I like it,” said Al Crosby, a longtime Fairhaven resident. “They (Canada Lands) have done an excellent job in the pre-consultation process and I think they’ve achieved a balance (between environmental concerns and developmental aspirations).”

Perhaps the biggest concern for nearby neighbours was increased traffic congestion, particularly on Beechwood Avenue, Hemlock Road and the Rockcliffe Parkway.

Schultz said the company has taken that concern seriously, designing the community to be highly transit friendly.

“A big part of the solution is going to be public transit,” he said, citing plans for special transit corridors that will give buses priority at traffic lights, extra lanes at intersections and, in some places, bus-only lanes. The idea, he said, is to “make it as convenient and comfortable as possible” for residents to use transit services.

The plans as presented show intended sites for different types of houses — detached houses, townhouses, stacked townhouses and four-storey apartment buildings, along with residential buildings of up to eight storeys — as well as two parks, two schools, open areas, storm ponds and, never to be forgotten, woodlot green space.

In his presentation, Schultz alluded to the company’s willingness to address green space concerns, pointing out that about 90 per cent of the existing trees in the development area will remain standing. Indeed, one park is specifically slated to be built around a 200-year old Burr tree in order to preserve it.

Schultz also noted plans to “provide for employment” within the community itself. “Fruitful discussions” are underway with the nearby Montfort Hospital and the National Research Council on this matter. As well, CLC hopes to locate variety of small business outlets — laundries, drugstores, retail outlets and the like — in the community core. And there is every intention of building appropriate monuments that commemorate both the areas military history and its importance to its one-time aboriginal occupants.

The project has been a long time coming. In 2006, Canada Lands unveiled a project called Rockcliffe Landing that would have established a community of between 10,000 and 15,000. A year later, the Algonquins of Ontario filed a land claim temporarily prevent the Department of National Defence from selling the land. Only in 2011 did the land sale go ahead, after the Algonquins signed a $10-million deal with the federal government that allows them to buy some of the site and develop it in keeping with Canada Lands’ overall plans.

Canada Lands intends to submit its project to the city for its consideration this spring, with a view to sending in the bulldozers to install streets and services in 2015. The lots will be offered to builders in 2016.

© Copyright (c) The Ottawa Citizen

http://www.ottawacitizen.com/news/ottawa/Proposed+makeover+former+Rockliffe+pretty+much+right+planner/9522738/story.html

OTSkyline
Feb 19, 2014, 2:14 PM
Is there a window timeframe for this project?

Is it expected to be done like any other subdivision wihtin a year or two or is it more a "Lebreton Flats" project where this thing will take 10-12 years to be built? :shrug:

Aylmer
Feb 19, 2014, 2:39 PM
This is a case of 'better, but not good'.

- The provisions for public transportation, cycling and walking are meager at most and vague throughout. It seems to be regarded as more of a charity service than an actual mode of transportation for 'serious people'. You usually see this when urban areas are designed by people who usually only walk to get to their car or cycle on stationary bikes.

They need to make non-automobile transportation a tangible priority with segregated bike lanes; double- and triple-width sidewalks with requirements for trees, furniture and frontage; extra-narrow roadways (9-10') with limited parking; shared space plazas along the Main Street; reserved bus lanes with planned frequent service to the LRT at St.Laurent and/or Blair (with possible future conversion to surface LRT).

- They need a bigger mix of uses: bring the jobs into the centre of the development with live+work+shop buildings; there should be medium-density mixed-use all along Main; have corner shops throughout, especially near gathering spaces like neighbourhood parks.

- Have a concrete plan for mixed-income housing (that is to say not just stuffed in a high-rise in the farthest corner of the development); have a significant amount of rental housing; have a mix of housing sizes on the same block.


We know so much about good planning and how much it benefits and saves us individually and collectively. So why can't we apply these principles in such a central location? We're seeing now with Windmill that it can be done and it's time that we demand more than just 'better-than-Barrhaven' (no offence to anyone from Barrhaven).

YOWetal
Feb 19, 2014, 2:41 PM
Is there a window timeframe for this project?

Is it expected to be done like any other subdivision wihtin a year or two or is it more a "Lebreton Flats" project where this thing will take 10-12 years to be built? :shrug:


They estimate the first people would move in 2017-18 (so really 2019) so looks a lot like Le Breton. Has the same design by committee feel.

While there is nothing horribly wrong with the plan it seems like a wasted opportunity for such a large piece of land only a few kilometres from downtown.

JM1
Feb 19, 2014, 3:06 PM
Aylmer,

You make excellent points. This won't work without public transit that goes beyond buses on Hemlock, St Laurent, Montreal, and Blair to connect (at some distance) to LRT. It needs either LRT (preferably to downtown along Hemlock or under Montreal road) or it needs -- an urban gondola (imagine connecting from the CFB town centre via gondola to Rideau Centre, to Rapidbus in Quebec (over Kettle Island) and to St Laurent or Blair in the South (adding stations for CSIS and NRC on the way).

Urban gondolas would be cheaper than LRT but could offer frequent scenic service with equal capacities.

Also, I am in agreement that we should not build 20-storey buildings on the periphery. I think 6-8 storey office buildings (like they do for Government buildings in downtown Washington, DC) would be workable and they should be located in the centre (but with store fronts on the ground level to add to walkability).

I think wide sidewalks in the commerical areas is key.

There is so much money to be made by developers on this piece of land that they should pay a premium to add transit (and not just bus transit!).

This is a case of 'better, but not good'.

- The provisions for public transportation, cycling and walking are meager at most and vague throughout. It seems to be regarded as more of a charity service than an actual mode of transportation for 'serious people'. You usually see this when urban areas are designed by people who usually only walk to get to their car or cycle on stationary bikes.

They need to make non-automobile transportation a tangible priority with segregated bike lanes; double- and triple-width sidewalks with requirements for trees, furniture and frontage; extra-narrow roadways (9-10') with limited parking; shared space plazas along the Main Street; reserved bus lanes with planned frequent service to the LRT at St.Laurent and/or Blair (with possible future conversion to surface LRT).

- They need a bigger mix of uses: bring the jobs into the centre of the development with live+work+shop buildings; there should be medium-density mixed-use all along Main; have corner shops throughout, especially near gathering spaces like neighbourhood parks.

- Have a concrete plan for mixed-income housing (that is to say not just stuffed in a high-rise in the farthest corner of the development); have a significant amount of rental housing; have a mix of housing sizes on the same block.


We know so much about good planning and how much it benefits and saves us individually and collectively. So why can't we apply these principles in such a central location? We're seeing now with Windmill that it can be done and it's time that we demand more than just 'better-than-Barrhaven' (no offence to anyone from Barrhaven).

JM1
Feb 19, 2014, 3:15 PM
10,000-15,000 people is too much for this area unless you put in real transit. Make the developers pay for proper mass transit.

Proposed makeover for former CFB Rockliffe has ‘got it pretty much right’: planner

By Robert Sibley, OTTAWA CITIZEN February 18, 2014

http://www.ottawacitizen.com/news/ottawa/cms/binary/9522741.jpg

OTTAWA — It’s like a small town dropping in on the big city. That is how Ottawans might regard their newest neighbourhood-in-waiting after Canada Lands Company unveiled its plans for the former Canadian Forces Base Rockcliffe.

Canada Lands, the Crown corporation that owns the 125-hectare site, held a public meeting Tuesday to reveal its intention to a mixed-use district of about 5,200 houses and apartments for 10,000 to 15,000 residents. The one-time military base, located a mere five kilometres from Parliament Hill, is the largest development parcel of land within the Greenbelt. It occupies an escarpment overlooking the Ottawa River valley, east of St. Laurent Boulevard and north of Montreal Road. The area is surrounded by other mature neighbourhoods and communities such as Manor Park, Rockcliffe Park, Rothwell Heights, Fairhaven, Thorncliffe Park and Vanier.

The plan, which will likely be submitted to the City of Ottawa this spring, is the culmination of a series of public consultations, workshops and studies that CLC has conducted over the last few years. On Tuesday evening, company officials expressed confidence that their project will find general acceptance with both the public and the politicians.

“We’ve listened to what people have told us and we think we’ve got it pretty much right,” said Don Schultz, real estate director for the Rockcliffe project.

Certainly, there were those who thought a few things — for example, where’s the health centre? Why no housing for seniors? What about a wetland to attract frogs and dragonflies? — needed more attention. One streetwise observer warned that “a pathway at the back of retail stores is asking for trouble.” Another questioned why six- to eight-storey apartments were proposed for a well-treed area that once housed officers and their families. And, of course, there were some who thought Canada Lands was “ruining a beautiful parkland ... by this awful intensification.”

By and large, though, those who attended Tuesday’s presentation gave CLC credit for taking area residents’ concerns to heart. “There’s a few glitches, but I like it,” said Al Crosby, a longtime Fairhaven resident. “They (Canada Lands) have done an excellent job in the pre-consultation process and I think they’ve achieved a balance (between environmental concerns and developmental aspirations).”

Perhaps the biggest concern for nearby neighbours was increased traffic congestion, particularly on Beechwood Avenue, Hemlock Road and the Rockcliffe Parkway.

Schultz said the company has taken that concern seriously, designing the community to be highly transit friendly.

“A big part of the solution is going to be public transit,” he said, citing plans for special transit corridors that will give buses priority at traffic lights, extra lanes at intersections and, in some places, bus-only lanes. The idea, he said, is to “make it as convenient and comfortable as possible” for residents to use transit services.

The plans as presented show intended sites for different types of houses — detached houses, townhouses, stacked townhouses and four-storey apartment buildings, along with residential buildings of up to eight storeys — as well as two parks, two schools, open areas, storm ponds and, never to be forgotten, woodlot green space.

In his presentation, Schultz alluded to the company’s willingness to address green space concerns, pointing out that about 90 per cent of the existing trees in the development area will remain standing. Indeed, one park is specifically slated to be built around a 200-year old Burr tree in order to preserve it.

Schultz also noted plans to “provide for employment” within the community itself. “Fruitful discussions” are underway with the nearby Montfort Hospital and the National Research Council on this matter. As well, CLC hopes to locate variety of small business outlets — laundries, drugstores, retail outlets and the like — in the community core. And there is every intention of building appropriate monuments that commemorate both the areas military history and its importance to its one-time aboriginal occupants.

The project has been a long time coming. In 2006, Canada Lands unveiled a project called Rockcliffe Landing that would have established a community of between 10,000 and 15,000. A year later, the Algonquins of Ontario filed a land claim temporarily prevent the Department of National Defence from selling the land. Only in 2011 did the land sale go ahead, after the Algonquins signed a $10-million deal with the federal government that allows them to buy some of the site and develop it in keeping with Canada Lands’ overall plans.

Canada Lands intends to submit its project to the city for its consideration this spring, with a view to sending in the bulldozers to install streets and services in 2015. The lots will be offered to builders in 2016.

© Copyright (c) The Ottawa Citizen

http://www.ottawacitizen.com/news/ottawa/Proposed+makeover+former+Rockliffe+pretty+much+right+planner/9522738/story.html

JM1
Feb 19, 2014, 3:27 PM
For how an urban gondola could serve this area, check out www.gondolaproject.com

One project that was proposed for Laval, QC can be viewed in a visualization video on YouTube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0jxRw1jd3a4&feature=youtu.be

The cost of these gondolas is very low compared to LRT or other high capacity transit, and it keep cars and buses off the roads.

Imagine leaving the airbase and taking a gondola that stops at St Laurent and Montreal before heading out over the cemeteries and dropping down in the centre of Vanier (to spur development) before continuing over Montreal Road or St Patrick to Rideau.

Imagine leaving the aribase and taking a gondola down St Laurent with stops at Montreal, Donald, MacARthur, and St Laurent.

Note that gondolas are very flexible in the sense that a single gondola car can be switched at stations to go onto different continuing lines at a subsequent station. This means that you can go through a transfer point without without changing gondolas (because you had pre-selected to get on a red lines car or a blue line car in the first place. Thus a line from the airbase could feed into both a St Laurent and Montreal Road line and indeed the Montreal road line could also connect directly to the St Laurent line to bypass the airbase.

Capital Shaun
Feb 19, 2014, 4:23 PM
10,000-15,000 people is too much for this area unless you put in real transit. Make the developers pay for proper mass transit.

I agree. That many people moving into a small neighbourhood is a recipe for clogging up the local streets without proper mass transit put in place. And throwing more buses on routes 7 & 12 or diverting the 129 into this area isn't going to do it.

Uhuniau
Feb 19, 2014, 5:49 PM
It's going to be hard to build or justify "real transit" in this development as long as it's blocked from direct access to Montreal Road by the low-intensity and physically segregated NRC property, and also as long as Ottawa and Ontario are too cheap to consider anything other than a flaccid bus transit "solution" for the Montreal-Rideau corridor.

OC Transpo can't even get existing bus service right on this corridor.

Uhuniau
Feb 19, 2014, 5:51 PM
I agree. That many people moving into a small neighbourhood is a recipe for clogging up the local streets without proper mass transit put in place. And throwing more buses on routes 7 & 12 or diverting the 129 into this area isn't going to do it.

Good. Let the streets be clogged. That's what they're for.

lrt's friend
Feb 19, 2014, 6:30 PM
very interesting..do you have a source?

from a book titled "The Ottawa Valley's Great Fire of 1870" by Terry Currie

I haven't finished it but there is a lot of background on early settlement in the Ottawa Valley and how it differed from the experience south of the border.

I have learned a lot about pioneer life that I never knew before, and how the settlers brought the risk of fire that had not existed before. This is why the Ottawa Valley had such outstanding stands of both hardwood and pine forests. Until the pioneers arrived, there were not periodic forest fires as was the case in many other parts of North America.

As a result of this book, I have been able to access source documents that indicated that the Great Fire had wiped out farms at Uplands and Elmvale Acres. Traditionally, the understanding was that the fire travelled mainly from the west towards Ottawa. Apparently fires errupted in many locations.

lrt's friend
Feb 19, 2014, 6:54 PM
I agree. That many people moving into a small neighbourhood is a recipe for clogging up the local streets without proper mass transit put in place. And throwing more buses on routes 7 & 12 or diverting the 129 into this area isn't going to do it.

Isn't the existing one trip per day on the 129 sufficient? We can put a double decker on if needed.

Don't forget, we are running the city on a timbits budget.

Seriously, we keep getting grandiose plans that always seem to get compromised. They never turn out as originally planned. This will all probably turn into the typical suburban neighbourhood with a little more density, lots of cars, and substandard transit.

The only time we can stick to a plan is when it is being developed all at once like Lansdowne. When it something bigger and covering decades, thinking will change and money will talk.

Skipper
Feb 21, 2014, 1:04 AM
5,200 homes and condos? are they crazy? While we would love to move there, we couldn't wait for 10 years for this project to be completed. Hopefully it will not be another Claridge project.

While we were considering moving from Westboro to this project, the Windmill Development "Les Iles" project is a lot more appealing to us from what we know so far!

JM1
Feb 21, 2014, 1:46 AM
Good point on the size of the project. Anyone know what fraction of Ottawa housing starts this represents? How many new houses can be absorbed in Ottawa each year.

5,200 homes and condos? are they crazy? While we would love to move there, we couldn't wait for 10 years for this project to be completed. Hopefully it will not be another Claridge project.

While we were considering moving from Westboro to this project, the Windmill Development "Les Iles" project is a lot more appealing to us from what we know so far!

gjhall
Feb 21, 2014, 2:48 AM
Good point on the size of the project. Anyone know what fraction of Ottawa housing starts this represents? How many new houses can be absorbed in Ottawa each year.

A little less than one year's worth for the City of Ottawa. 6 months worth for the region.

http://documents.ottawa.ca/sites/documents.ottawa.ca/files/documents/adr_en.pdf

danishh
Feb 21, 2014, 2:55 AM
I stated elsewhere i think this project should be put on the backburner. I'm in favour of the density propositions, but it's only feasible once the housing demand is there and the funding for montreal road rapid transit is there.

the city clearly has other priorities right now in terms of high-density housing, mainly little italy/carling/dows lake and now lees. Doesnt make sense for the feds to work against the city.

IntoTheCore
Feb 21, 2014, 1:16 PM
Doesnt make sense for the feds to work against the city.

It never does, yet we still have a list of issues a mile long where this is happening.

YOWetal
Feb 21, 2014, 2:53 PM
5,200 homes and condos? are they crazy? While we would love to move there, we couldn't wait for 10 years for this project to be completed. Hopefully it will not be another Claridge project.

While we were considering moving from Westboro to this project, the Windmill Development "Les Iles" project is a lot more appealing to us from what we know so far!

Really an Apples vs Oranges comparison. The Domtar project is an urban mixed use project. This project is essentially a suburban project. They are trying to cover it is lipstick but that is what it is. The housing mix will be very different and I imagine prices for equivalent housing here will be dramatically lower than the Domtar with its waterfront location, views of parliament and walking distance to thousands of jobs.

JM1
Feb 21, 2014, 4:58 PM
If the CFB becomes a suburban project it will be a total failure. I for one would prefer the whole area be turned into a huge city park rather than a car generating version of suburbia.

Really an Apples vs Oranges comparison. The Domtar project is an urban mixed use project. This project is essentially a suburban project. They are trying to cover it is lipstick but that is what it is. The housing mix will be very different and I imagine prices for equivalent housing here will be dramatically lower than the Domtar with its waterfront location, views of parliament and walking distance to thousands of jobs.

YOWetal
Feb 21, 2014, 5:14 PM
If the CFB becomes a suburban project it will be a total failure. I for one would prefer the whole area be turned into a huge city park rather than a car generating version of suburbia.

Of course you would prefer it be a park, but you aren't paying to buy the land. Realistically it is going to be a car-centric suburb. It's just too far from employment and rapid transit to be anything else. Traffic calming and bike paths are nice but they won't make much difference. I can't see people who want to bike/walk or take transit even considering this location to live. I know I wouldn't.

JM1
Feb 21, 2014, 11:41 PM
Sadly, I have to agree. They have avoided the question of transit. These "bus priority" lanes in the TMP will prove woefully inadequate. They might have worked if downtown Ottawa were to the south (since aviation parkway can carry busses quickly southward to the 417), but it is to the West (and Hemlock and Montreal are incapable of carrying heavy bus traffic all the way to downtown.

Of course you would prefer it be a park, but you aren't paying to buy the land. Realistically it is going to be a car-centric suburb. It's just too far from employment and rapid transit to be anything else. Traffic calming and bike paths are nice but they won't make much difference. I can't see people who want to bike/walk or take transit even considering this location to live. I know I wouldn't.

Aylmer
Feb 21, 2014, 11:45 PM
I just wish this project could wait until we can get Montreal Rd. LRT and/or St.Laurent surface LRT...

But even as a rapid transit-less district, they could do better.

JM1
Feb 22, 2014, 12:06 AM
The city should see it as an opportunity. The developers should pay infrastructure costs (road, sewer, utilities) and for transit to downtown and to St Lauremt station or Blair station.

I just wish this project could wait until we can get Montreal Rd. LRT and/or St.Laurent surface LRT...

But even as a rapid transit-less district, they could do better.

JM1
Feb 27, 2014, 4:40 AM
I was just reviewing CLC's documents on this project. The phasing of it is really depressing. The first phase is just lowrise residential and single-family homes. There will be no effort to create the downtown area with midrise residential over commercial. It is too bad this whole project may start as a lowrise residential and single-family home development and in there. Just more suburban sprawl within the city core. A lost opportunity.

If this is to work it has to start with the mixed use development from the very start.

c_speed3108
Feb 27, 2014, 12:12 PM
I was just reviewing CLC's documents on this project. The phasing of it is really depressing. The first phase is just lowrise residential and single-family homes. There will be no effort to create the downtown area with midrise residential over commercial. It is too bad this whole project may start as a lowrise residential and single-family home development and in there. Just more suburban sprawl within the city core. A lost opportunity.

If this is to work it has to start with the mixed use development from the very start.

I think the general problem is you start with high-rises you get the Lebretton Flats or Petrie landing problem of a cold high rise in the middle of field with no life around it. Commercial needs customers so it's not really the place to start either.

The other thing is single homes are faster to get built as you can build 'em as you sell them rather than needing a certain percentage of a high rise to sell.

It will fill in. Like all other new areas you have to give things a chance.

OTSkyline
Feb 27, 2014, 2:46 PM
As much as I'd like a denser inner-city neighbourhood with the location being off, very little transit or little commercial/employment centers in the area, I have trouble seeing how this could become what we all want it to become...

Personally, I'd rather the city focus on TOD's and employment/residential centers around downtown and the confederation line for now. It's kind of a no-brainer for now. Build and bring jobs and people where we are already building a 2+ billion transit project or build a new neighbourhood with 5, 10 and 20 story residential and office towers in far-away land nowhere near any of the LRT?:shrug:

Uhuniau
Feb 27, 2014, 3:32 PM
The only time we can stick to a plan is when it is being developed all at once like Lansdowne.

In other words, the only time we can stick to a plan, is when the plan sucks balls.

Uhuniau
Feb 27, 2014, 3:34 PM
I stated elsewhere i think this project should be put on the backburner. I'm in favour of the density propositions, but it's only feasible once the housing demand is there and the funding for montreal road rapid transit is there.

The funding for Montreal Road rapid transit will never be there, because this city is run by the crap suburbs, and there will be absolutely no rapid transit in urban parts of the city until it's been run to every far-flung low-density crapurb outside the Greenbelt.

This city hates being a city.

Uhuniau
Feb 27, 2014, 3:36 PM
The city should see it as an opportunity. The developers should pay infrastructure costs (road, sewer, utilities) and for transit to downtown and to St Lauremt station or Blair station.

That principle should apply equally to all developers, including the ones building crap suburbs. It might force them to rethink the crapocity of their plans, and start building something more urban, with long-term economic and socio-cultural viability, instead of saddling future generations with the cost of maintaining a 1970s suburban lifestyle.

JM1
Feb 27, 2014, 4:09 PM
You are preaching to the converted. If taxpayers were not subsidizing developers with their plans for sprawl, we could build better infrastructure downtown. And TOD could offer large rental apartments and condominiums (suitable for families) with good access to outdoor parks. If they want outdoor eating space, then give them big balconies too.

That principle should apply equally to all developers, including the ones building crap suburbs. It might force them to rethink the crapocity of their plans, and start building something more urban, with long-term economic and socio-cultural viability, instead of saddling future generations with the cost of maintaining a 1970s suburban lifestyle.

kevinbottawa
Apr 13, 2014, 7:35 PM
The CLC is making significant changes to their development in Calgary. I wonder if the same can be in store for the CFB Rockcliffe down the line.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/currie-barracks-updated-denser-redevelopment-plan-unveiled-1.2604861

J.OT13
Apr 13, 2014, 8:34 PM
I know Ottawa's plans aren't quite as advanced, but from what I can see, the Calgary version seems much better. That said, they too, as far as I know, don't have any rapid transit plans for the area.

rocketphish
Jun 27, 2014, 1:08 AM
Future of CFB Rockcliffe now in city's hands

By Kelly Roche, Ottawa Sun
First posted: Thursday, June 26, 2014 04:56 PM EDT

The community design plan for the redevelopment of the former CFB Rockcliffe base is being submitted to city staff Friday following two years of public consultation.

“We expect to get in front of the City of Ottawa planning committee and city council in January or February of next year,” said Don Schultz, the Canada Lands Company’s director of real estate for CFB Rockcliffe.

They’ve received a lot of public support for the general direction of the plan, he said.

The company purchased the former military base three years ago for $27.2 million.

It had been run by the Department of National Defence and is now billed as one of Ottawa’s most significant community building initiatives.

The company intends to transform the 310-acre site into a new urban community, housing an estimated 10,000 to 15,000 residents.

They’re looking at 5,200 to 5,500 residential units in addition to plans for office and mixed use development, said Schultz.

Commercial development is “fairly flexible,” he added.

“It’s going to really depend a lot on the market interest.”

Roughly one-third of the land area of the site would be considered low-rise, or up to four storeys.

Mid-rise, mostly the mixed use areas, are up to nine storeys.

“There are just a couple of relatively small areas on the sort of east and west corners of the plan, where there is provision for some high-rise up to, more or less, 20 storeys,” said Schultz.

The company announced a collaboration with La Cite Collegiale Thursday, giving students and faculty hands-on opportunities.

“Such learning experiences are an asset to our students, since they contribute to prepare them more adequately to join the labour market where they will be able to excel,” said college president Lise Bourgeois.

The informal partnership, based on the principles of sustainable development, anticipates participation from technology and skilled trades students.

A plan dubbed Rockcliffe Landing was pitched in 2006, projecting a community of 5,000 housing units, plus retail outlets and offices in eight neighbourhoods.

While the current vision boasts similarities, “that name is no longer in use,” said Schultz, noting a new name hasn’t been selected.

Regardless, the plan must receive the go-ahead from the city in order for development to proceed.

Schultz said a public consultation report is being translated to French and will be posted at clcrockcliffe.ca

Twitter: @kellyroche6


PROJECTED TIMELINE PENDING CITY APPROVAL

2015: Infrastructure (roads, sewers, sidewalks, parks)
2016: Home construction
2017: First occupancy

Source: Canada Lands Company

http://www.ottawasun.com/2014/06/26/future-of-cfb-rockcliffe-now-in-citys-hands

Boxster
Jun 27, 2014, 3:07 PM
Where are they going to get 10,000 to 15,000 residents from? :(

Future of CFB Rockcliffe now in city's hands

By Kelly Roche, Ottawa Sun
First posted: Thursday, June 26, 2014 04:56 PM EDT

The community design plan for the redevelopment of the former CFB Rockcliffe base is being submitted to city staff Friday following two years of public consultation.

“We expect to get in front of the City of Ottawa planning committee and city council in January or February of next year,” said Don Schultz, the Canada Lands Company’s director of real estate for CFB Rockcliffe.

They’ve received a lot of public support for the general direction of the plan, he said.

The company purchased the former military base three years ago for $27.2 million.

It had been run by the Department of National Defence and is now billed as one of Ottawa’s most significant community building initiatives.

The company intends to transform the 310-acre site into a new urban community, housing an estimated 10,000 to 15,000 residents.

They’re looking at 5,200 to 5,500 residential units in addition to plans for office and mixed use development, said Schultz.

Commercial development is “fairly flexible,” he added.

“It’s going to really depend a lot on the market interest.”

Roughly one-third of the land area of the site would be considered low-rise, or up to four storeys.

Mid-rise, mostly the mixed use areas, are up to nine storeys.

“There are just a couple of relatively small areas on the sort of east and west corners of the plan, where there is provision for some high-rise up to, more or less, 20 storeys,” said Schultz.

The company announced a collaboration with La Cite Collegiale Thursday, giving students and faculty hands-on opportunities.

“Such learning experiences are an asset to our students, since they contribute to prepare them more adequately to join the labour market where they will be able to excel,” said college president Lise Bourgeois.

The informal partnership, based on the principles of sustainable development, anticipates participation from technology and skilled trades students.

A plan dubbed Rockcliffe Landing was pitched in 2006, projecting a community of 5,000 housing units, plus retail outlets and offices in eight neighbourhoods.

While the current vision boasts similarities, “that name is no longer in use,” said Schultz, noting a new name hasn’t been selected.

Regardless, the plan must receive the go-ahead from the city in order for development to proceed.

Schultz said a public consultation report is being translated to French and will be posted at clcrockcliffe.ca

Twitter: @kellyroche6


PROJECTED TIMELINE PENDING CITY APPROVAL

2015: Infrastructure (roads, sewers, sidewalks, parks)
2016: Home construction
2017: First occupancy

Source: Canada Lands Company

http://www.ottawasun.com/2014/06/26/future-of-cfb-rockcliffe-now-in-citys-hands

1overcosc
Jun 27, 2014, 3:35 PM
Population growth. Even though our growth rate has slowed, the city's population is still climbing by about 10,000 per year. Those people have to live somewhere.

If the city's request for a Places to Grow Act for the area is taken seriously by the province, we could actually see iron-hard rules against suburban expansion like the ones they have in Toronto. That will explode the demand for intensification.

DEWLine
Jul 26, 2014, 1:45 PM
Also, people looking to move out of the 'burbs due to empty nest syndrome, perhaps?

1overcosc
Jul 27, 2014, 6:45 PM
^ That's a big one.

For whatever reason (likely a combination of factors) urban growth has taken a big gain over suburban expansion in recent years. In Ottawa about 40% of all growth is intensification.

Uhuniau
Jul 27, 2014, 10:02 PM
^ That's a big one.

For whatever reason (likely a combination of factors) urban growth has taken a big gain over suburban expansion in recent years. In Ottawa about 40% of all growth is intensification.

That high?

1overcosc
Jul 27, 2014, 10:46 PM
Its actually 49% according to this:
http://app05.ottawa.ca/sirepub/cache/2/zmyojyuemxjt2rz1wks4qi3o/19442507272014064503199.PDF

Uhuniau
Jul 28, 2014, 2:55 AM
Its actually 49% according to this:
http://app05.ottawa.ca/sirepub/cache/2/zmyojyuemxjt2rz1wks4qi3o/19442507272014064503199.PDF

Why does the City have such ugly, useless URLs?

1overcosc
Jul 28, 2014, 2:13 PM
Ulgh, expiring PDFs. So irritating. Our city in action ;)

I think this should be persistent: http://app05.ottawa.ca/sirepub/mtgviewer.aspx?meetid=6226&doctype=agenda&itemid=314368

Catenary
Jul 28, 2014, 3:57 PM
Why does the City have such ugly, useless URLs?

Don't get me started on SIRE.

acottawa
Jul 28, 2014, 8:31 PM
How is transportation supposed to work? Aviation and Rockcliffe parkways have capacity but are bus-free and have limited options in terms of where you can go (not west, for example). Blair at that point is a two-lane residential road. I have a friend that lives beside the site and it takes her an hour to get downtown by bus.

MaxHeadroom
Jul 28, 2014, 8:43 PM
How is transportation supposed to work?Just like it does for other big Ottawa developments. Build a whack of housing, wait for the two lane road serving it to get clogged by the new residents, then spend four years planning and building a proper arterial road that should have been there to begin with. This is standard development procedure, you know. ;)

Uhuniau
Jul 29, 2014, 3:45 AM
Ulgh, expiring PDFs. So irritating. Our city in action ;)

I think this should be persistent: http://app05.ottawa.ca/sirepub/mtgviewer.aspx?meetid=6226&doctype=agenda&itemid=314368

Ottawa is the high-tech capital of the Greater Ottawa area.

Uhuniau
Jul 29, 2014, 3:46 AM
Don't get me started on SIRE.

It seems to be one of the dumbest ways to dumb dumb dumb dumb dumb.

Uhuniau
Jul 29, 2014, 3:47 AM
How is transportation supposed to work? Aviation and Rockcliffe parkways have capacity but are bus-free and have limited options in terms of where you can go (not west, for example). Blair at that point is a two-lane residential road. I have a friend that lives beside the site and it takes her an hour to get downtown by bus.

"Bus free" is not a permanent state.

Uhuniau
Jul 29, 2014, 3:54 AM
Its actually 49% according to this:
http://app05.ottawa.ca/sirepub/cache/2/zmyojyuemxjt2rz1wks4qi3o/19442507272014064503199.PDF

49.7 is "intensification", but Ottawa seems to have a weird definition of "intensification":

In the past five years 54.7% of intensification units have been built in the five Central wards (up 0.8% from 2012), 18.6% in the Inner Urban wards (down 5.2% from 2012) and 26.7% in the Suburban wards (up 4.4%)

1overcosc
Jul 29, 2014, 2:51 PM
Technically speaking, any non-greenfield development is intensification. So projects like those new apartment towers in Kanata Centrum count, I imagine.

rocketphish
Oct 11, 2014, 2:29 PM
We’ve Submitted!
Sep 23 2014

Public input received through Canada Lands Company’s consultation process, combined with the analysis of the technical agencies, has guided the project team in the preparation of a draft Community Design Plan (CDP) and associated draft preferred plan.

Based upon preliminary comments on a previous draft CDP and new information from the City of Ottawa, a revised draft CDP and all of the necessary supporting draft technical studies will soon be provided to the City. Once the City determines that all of the documents are suitable for review, the City’s Technical Advisory Committee (TAC) will review the entire draft package. When the TAC has completed its review, the CDP will go on technical circulation to outside agencies. At that time, the CDP and supporting documents will be available on-line for the public to view and comment on.

A public meeting of the Planning Committee of the City will be advertised and those interested in making oral or written submissions will be provided the opportunity to do so. The Committee meeting is anticipated in early 2015.

Canada Lands Company expects to receive City zoning and conditional draft subdivision approvals at that time, and will subsequently start the installation of infrastructure and services later in 2015. We anticipate that first sales to builders will take place in 2016. Serviced blocks of land will be sold to builders, who will in turn sell individual homes/units to homebuyers. Canada Lands Company anticipates the first residents will move into this community in 2017.

A complete draft of the CDP will become available following the City of Ottawa’s technical review. For now, a few key plans from the draft CDP are available in the Resource Library found on the project website at www.clcrockcliffe.ca.

We also encourage you to stay informed by visiting our website regularly and by liking us on Facebook at: www.facebook.com/CLCRockcliffe."

http://www.clcrockcliffe.ca/en/news/we%E2%80%99ve-submitted

JM1
Nov 6, 2014, 7:16 PM
Does anyone know why the CDP that was submitted by CLC to the City has not been posted?

I would guess that the city is expressing concerns about transportation -- an issue that has been repeatedly highlighted during consultations.

Also, I wonder if the city is questioning the two groups of tall mixed-use/office towers (at hemlock and aviation, and at Montreal and Burma). With 10,000 new residents plus major office complexes at both ends, one wonders how the transportation will work with only three exit routes -- two of them leading to Montreal Road and one leading to Hemlock, which will forever be a two lane road (because Beechwood is already congested).

Can anyone fill us in on developments?

kwoldtimer
Nov 6, 2014, 7:20 PM
Does anyone know why the CDP that was submitted by CLC to the City has not been posted?

I would guess that the city is expressing concerns about transportation -- an issue that has been repeatedly highlighted during consultations.

Also, I wonder if the city is questioning the two groups of tall mixed-use/office towers (at hemlock and aviation, and at Montreal and Burma). With 10,000 new residents plus major office complexes at both ends, one wonders how the transportation will work with only three exit routes -- two of them leading to Montreal Road and one leading to Hemlock, which will forever be a two lane road (because Beechwood is already congested).

Can anyone fill us in on developments?

Something I've been wondering about since the get-go. Nobody seems willing to acknowledge that Hemlock will need to be expanded to four lanes to handle the increase in traffic that this project will inevitably generate. I don't oppose the project, but the transportation issue needs a fuller airing.

JM1
Nov 6, 2014, 7:55 PM
If you travel Hemlock, you will realize that it rolls fine with two lanes -- the congestion for westbound traffic only starts when you hit beechwood whic is four lanes already. The congestion is the result of the intersections and traffic lights on Beechwood not the lane capacity on Hemlock. Widening hemlock to four lanes would do nothing to speed up the transit time between Vanier and St Laurent, because the delay is dominated by congestion on the Beechwood segment.

Note also, that the city is considering reducing St Laurent north of Montreal Road to two lanes from four. In practice, I don't think this will affect speed because the delays on this segment are dominated by the intersections (Montreal and St Laurent for southbound traffic and Hemlock and St Laurent for northbound traffic). If the city goes ahead wiht the plan to reduce lanes on St Laurent (a plan that I support), I don't see them doing just the opposite on Hemlock.

I don't think there will be much support for widening Hemlock (although there could be support for running an LRT along it).



Something I've been wondering about since the get-go. Nobody seems willing to acknowledge that Hemlock will need to be expanded to four lanes to handle the increase in traffic that this project will inevitably generate. I don't oppose the project, but the transportation issue needs a fuller airing.

kwoldtimer
Nov 6, 2014, 8:24 PM
If you travel Hemlock, you will realize that it rolls fine with two lanes -- the congestion for westbound traffic only starts when you hit beechwood whic is four lanes already. The congestion is the result of the intersections and traffic lights on Beechwood not the lane capacity on Hemlock. Widening hemlock to four lanes would do nothing to speed up the transit time between Vanier and St Laurent, because the delay is dominated by congestion on the Beechwood segment.

Note also, that the city is considering reducing St Laurent north of Montreal Road to two lanes from four. In practice, I don't think this will affect speed because the delays on this segment are dominated by the intersections (Montreal and St Laurent for southbound traffic and Hemlock and St Laurent for northbound traffic). If the city goes ahead wiht the plan to reduce lanes on St Laurent (a plan that I support), I don't see them doing just the opposite on Hemlock.

I don't think there will be much support for widening Hemlock (although there could be support for running an LRT along it).

I don't think there'd be any support for widening Hemlock, and I'm not sure a tramway would fly with Manor Park. The point is that Hemlock/Beechwood will not be able to cope with the increased traffic toward/from the downtown and yet there doesn't seem to be much alternative for a development on this scale, given the limits on Montreal Rd. How are these 10,000 people supposed to get about?

JM1
Nov 6, 2014, 8:37 PM
I am certainly in agreement with you on the fundamental problem for which I don't see any solution apart from a costly Montreal Road LRT with a loop into CFB.

While an LRT from CFB Rockcliffe down to Blair or St Laurent might help (see Counsellor-elect Nussbaum's proposal on the former) it is unrealistic that people would use such a roundabout loop to get from CFB Rockcliffe to offices downtown.

I don't know if Manor Park residents would whole-heartedly reject a LRT along Hemlock. They may see a risk of noise and vibration (but are diesel buses worse) or a risk of bringing riff-raff to their community (but Manor Park is already a mixed income community with a gradient of wealth that runs fromt the North-West corner (at Birch and Sandridge) to the southeast corner at Hemlock and Str Laurent). The biggest problem for the LRT along Hemlock in my mind is not the Hemlock segment, but the Beechwood/St. Patrick/King Edward/Dalhousie/Rideau segment.




I don't think there'd be any support for widening Hemlock, and I'm not sure a tramway would fly with Manor Park. The point is that Hemlock/Beechwood will not be able to cope with the increased traffic toward/from the downtown and yet there doesn't seem to be much alternative for a development on this scale, given the limits on Montreal Rd. How are these 10,000 people supposed to get about?

Uhuniau
Nov 10, 2014, 4:34 AM
I don't think there'd be any support for widening Hemlock, and I'm not sure a tramway would fly with Manor Park. The point is that Hemlock/Beechwood will not be able to cope with the increased traffic toward/from the downtown and yet there doesn't seem to be much alternative for a development on this scale, given the limits on Montreal Rd. How are these 10,000 people supposed to get about?

And we should care what Manorparkians think because... ?

rocketphish
Nov 10, 2014, 12:46 PM
Housing project for homeless veterans looking for funding

By Doug Hempstead, Ottawa Sun
First posted: Thursday, November 06, 2014 04:06 PM EST | Updated: Thursday, November 06, 2014 10:47 PM EST

Nearly a quarter of Ottawa's homeless can be called military veterans.

It's something the man who once led Canada's troops in Afghanistan suggests is an embarrassment -- long overdue for attention.

Retired Lt-Gen Andrew Leslie said the federal government needs to step up and come through with major funding for homeless and vulnerable veterans -- something which could be done by getting involved in a new housing project in the city, announced Thursday.

"It is our solemn obligation, our sacred duty," he said to the group of several dozen people who gathered for the announcement at the Eastview branch of the Royal Canadian Legion in Vanier.

Leslie said he expects the numbers of homeless veterans, particularly from Afghanistan, to only escalate in the coming years.

"One is too many. We are doing wrong as a society. This is a national responsibility. We owe them so much," he said, adding he hopes they get "the federal government's just rewards."

The good news is, a 16+ unit facility specifically for homeless or vulnerable veterans is likely to be built on federally-owned land at the former Rockcliffe air base within two years.

It will be called Veterans House and will be created following a supportive "housing first" model which seeks to help the veterans deal with health, mental health and addiction issues.

On any given night in Ottawa there are between 35 and 55 homeless veterans living on the streets. The organization Soldiers Helping Soldiers has identified 140 homeless veterans living rough in the past year.

"It will be specially designed" said Suzanne Le, the executive director of the Multifaith Housing Initiative. "We're talking about a very complex need that is a little set apart from the regular homeless population."

Le said homeless individuals who are veterans have a different culture then homeless civilians.

"We need to take a very different route," she said.

The facility could be bigger than 16 units, but its size depends on how much funds can be raised. The units are designed to be permanent residences.

It's not just for Afghanistan veterans.

"We have veterans going back to the Second World War, to the 1950s, all the way up to Afghanistan," said RCAF Capt Vicki Ryan who works with Soldiers Helping Soldiers. "So it could be anyone who requires the assistance. While we have identified 140 homeless veterans in Ottawa, we know it could be many more than that."

Twitter: @DougHempstead

http://www.ottawasun.com/2014/11/06/housing-project-for-homeless-veterans-looking-for-funding

JM1
Nov 10, 2014, 3:13 PM
Very poor attitude Uhuniau. Everyone gets a say. In the case of traffic on Hemlock and Montreal Road, the issue goes beyond Manor Park to all of the commuters who use these routes, and because traffic has non-local effects, I would say it affects the broader east side of the city.



And we should care what Manorparkians think because... ?

kwoldtimer
Nov 10, 2014, 3:17 PM
And we should care what Manorparkians think because... ?

My comment wasn't meant to imply that one should, only how I assumed they would view matters.

Uhuniau
Nov 10, 2014, 3:40 PM
Very poor attitude Uhuniau. Everyone gets a say.

In Ottawa, that seems to be "everyone gets to speak against stuff that their neighbours want, but that they don't like for really stupid, parochial reasons".

In the case of traffic on Hemlock and Montreal Road, the issue goes beyond Manor Park to all of the commuters who use these routes, and because traffic has non-local effects, I would say it affects the broader east side of the city.

If "traffic" (i.e., other people driving) is the problem, then some real transit on the east side is part of the solution.

But the eastern close-in urban communities will not see mass transit this century, or, very likely, next one, either.

JM1
Nov 10, 2014, 4:07 PM
That is the point. The eastern close-in urban communities do need mass transit. They are getting short-changed. The whole area between the Queensway and the Ottawa River on the East side (stretching from Vanier Parkway to the Montreal/174 interchange) needs better connectivity.

The point that was being made is that you are adding a community of 15,000 people plus two high rise office districts and are doing nothing about transit in that area.

I note that considerable amounts of money are being spent to tunnel segments of the Phase 2 LRT under and around Richmond Road (near the Mayor's house). But the East end doesn't seem to be getting its fair share. The LRT in the East end skirts around most of the Eastern density rather than passing through it.

In Ottawa, that seems to be "everyone gets to speak against stuff that their neighbours want, but that they don't like for really stupid, parochial reasons".



If "traffic" (i.e., other people driving) is the problem, then some real transit on the east side is part of the solution.

But the eastern close-in urban communities will not see mass transit this century, or, very likely, next one, either.

Uhuniau
Nov 10, 2014, 6:10 PM
I note that considerable amounts of money are being spent to tunnel segments of the Phase 2 LRT under and around Richmond Road (near the Mayor's house). But the East end doesn't seem to be getting its fair share. The LRT in the East end skirts around most of the Eastern density rather than passing through it.

Just like Bus Crappid Transit did, too, by design (cheaper)... and then the BCT fans express surprise that BCT kinda sucked at attracting transit-oriented development.

waterloowarrior
May 30, 2015, 11:59 AM
Secondary plan docs up, although its timing out for me right now
http://app01.ottawa.ca/postingplans/appDetails.jsf?lang=en&appId=__0JWC2S

rocketphish
Jun 4, 2015, 1:24 AM
335 St. Laurent Boulevard [CFB Rockcliffe Redevelopment] | Multiple buildings of varying heights | Proposed

The City of Ottawa has received a Zoning Amendment application and Application for Plan of Subdivision to permit the development of a subdivision zoned as residential, mixed-use, and parkland (with associated subzones), which will include approximately 6,000 proposed residential units in varying housing types.

Canada Lands Company proposes to develop a contemporary, compact, mixed use community for approximately 10,000 residents at the former Canadian Forces Base (CFB) Rockcliffe. The community will be walkable, cycling-supportive, transit oriented and built at a human scale. These principles will be realized through improved connectivity to the surrounding neighbourhoods and by providing access to open space for everyone. The site will connect the history of the Algonquin people and it will celebrate its military heritage. Redevelopment of the former CFB Rockcliffe will demonstrate urban design excellence, innovation in sustainability, cultural/social dynamism and a high quality of life. It will be forward looking in its development approach by integrating the site’s natural ecological functions into the design of the community.

Development applications:
http://app01.ottawa.ca/postingplans/appDetails.jsf?lang=en&appId=__0MBH3P
http://app01.ottawa.ca/postingplans/appDetails.jsf?lang=en&appId=__0MAHGQ


Siteplan:
https://farm1.staticflickr.com/448/18412515546_1331960f58_o.jpg

eternallyme
Jun 4, 2015, 1:28 AM
I wonder - is it better to just sit on the land until a Montreal Road-Rideau Street LRT corridor is planned, and make this land an integral part of such?

That said, Route 7 would be ideal to extend into the lands and terminate at a bus terminal there. Route 114 could then be extended along St. Laurent Boulevard to Manor Park, and Route 129 could be extended northward as well into the lands. In that plan:

Route 7: Most trips turn left onto Hemlock (instead of continue onto St. Laurent) and remain on Hemlock to the collector road between 41 and 48. It would then run along the northern collector and loop back onto Codd's to Hemlock to return downtown. A few trips (mostly on weekends) depart onto the Aviation Parkway to the Aviation Museum, replacing Route 129 - ideal for tourists to have a direct-to-downtown route to the Aviation Museum.

Route 7X Brittany: Renumber as Route 15 and operate along Montreal Road for a faster trip downtown.

Route 114: With no Transitway, it cannot continue to Hurdman after the Confederation Line opens. Instead, it continues along St. Laurent to Sandridge and Birch, looping back onto Beechwood and St. Laurent. It creates a corridor route along St. Laurent from end to end. Frequency would be the same as the 7 is now.

Route 129: Instead of looping around at Carson Grove, continue along Bathgate into the east end of the lands, looping around the same way as the 7 above. It gives a connection to the Confederation Line from the Rockcliffe area.

passwordisnt123
Jun 4, 2015, 3:21 PM
I don't mind this siteplan but it still seems to me like low-rise detached or semi-detached homes are a bit short sighted for any development inside the greenbelt.

Given how fast the city is growing in terms of sprawl outside the greenbelt, I think the city should start getting serious about making the most of intensification inside the greenbelt and big parcels of land are the single best tool to help accomplish this... if we make the most of them.

1overcosc
Jun 4, 2015, 3:28 PM
It's an interesting layout. That southern section (south of the southernmost east-west through road), is basically a suburban subdivision, what with low rise residential non-mixed use and non-grid streets.

The northern part though seems functionally urban. The part north of that southernmost east-west street and east of Codd's Road is pretty interesting... with low to mid rise mixed use and a grid layout it's basically replicating a traditional neighbourhood.

1overcosc
Jun 4, 2015, 3:36 PM
I wonder - is it better to just sit on the land until a Montreal Road-Rideau Street LRT corridor is planned, and make this land an integral part of such?

That said, Route 7 would be ideal to extend into the lands and terminate at a bus terminal there. Route 114 could then be extended along St. Laurent Boulevard to Manor Park, and Route 129 could be extended northward as well into the lands. In that plan:

Route 7: Most trips turn left onto Hemlock (instead of continue onto St. Laurent) and remain on Hemlock to the collector road between 41 and 48. It would then run along the northern collector and loop back onto Codd's to Hemlock to return downtown. A few trips (mostly on weekends) depart onto the Aviation Parkway to the Aviation Museum, replacing Route 129 - ideal for tourists to have a direct-to-downtown route to the Aviation Museum.

Route 7X Brittany: Renumber as Route 15 and operate along Montreal Road for a faster trip downtown.

Route 114: With no Transitway, it cannot continue to Hurdman after the Confederation Line opens. Instead, it continues along St. Laurent to Sandridge and Birch, looping back onto Beechwood and St. Laurent. It creates a corridor route along St. Laurent from end to end. Frequency would be the same as the 7 is now.

Route 129: Instead of looping around at Carson Grove, continue along Bathgate into the east end of the lands, looping around the same way as the 7 above. It gives a connection to the Confederation Line from the Rockcliffe area.

That dead end on Route 7 I don't like much.. I'd rather extend it to Blair along the fastest route possible from the east end of the community.

Using all the new transit levy money harnested from this community, I'd boost the 7 to very high frequencies (5-10 minutes in all time periods including evening & Sunday), which would provide a fast efficient connection to both downtown and Blair from this area (the 7 is a surprisingly quick route due to its straightness--Rideau to New Edinburgh is often less than a 10 minute trip off-peak).

Another thing that would be great is a limited stop express bus along the Hemlock-Beechwood corridor.

MoreTrains
Jun 4, 2015, 3:48 PM
335 St. Laurent Boulevard [CFB Rockcliffe Redevelopment] | Multiple buildings of varying heights | Proposed

The City of Ottawa has received a Zoning Amendment application and Application for Plan of Subdivision to permit the development of a subdivision zoned as residential, mixed-use, and parkland (with associated subzones), which will include approximately 6,000 proposed residential units in varying housing types.

Canada Lands Company proposes to develop a contemporary, compact, mixed use community for approximately 10,000 residents at the former Canadian Forces Base (CFB) Rockcliffe. The community will be walkable, cycling-supportive, transit oriented and built at a human scale. These principles will be realized through improved connectivity to the surrounding neighbourhoods and by providing access to open space for everyone. The site will connect the history of the Algonquin people and it will celebrate its military heritage. Redevelopment of the former CFB Rockcliffe will demonstrate urban design excellence, innovation in sustainability, cultural/social dynamism and a high quality of life. It will be forward looking in its development approach by integrating the site’s natural ecological functions into the design of the community.


First off, only 6000 units? How dissappointing. These lands could have held many more residences than this, it is quite dissappointing. And an estimated 10000 residents on such a large piece of land, arguably there should have been much more density to get more residents especially given the proximity to downtown. When this plan was initially revealed I was really dissappointed, and I still am.

And yet another place that will memorialize the Algonquin? Why is it that the three major developments in Ottawa all have to pander to them? This was a former military base, that should be what this development is memorializing. I would argue that only Zibi should memorialize them, while LeBreton memorializes the working class and logging industry.

There should be no development here until we can make major transit routes of either BRT or LRT to move people. And this should be developed as a high density area that includes affordable houses, rentals, condos and townhomes. Double the number of residents could easily be accomodated here; and the developers should try to increase that even.

Overall, poor show CLC.