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Boxster
Nov 9, 2015, 9:23 PM
Wateridge Village at Rockcliffe!

I like the name. :)

Wonder if the mansion owners on the west side appreciate having Rockliffe in the name? :(

Uhuniau
Nov 10, 2015, 4:15 AM
This ranks up there as one of the stupidest names ever for a new subdivision in Ottawa. I would have expected much more from the CLC. What was wrong with Rockcliffe Landing?

Don't jinx it; they can get stupider.

rocketphish
Nov 29, 2015, 10:50 PM
The website is up:

Ottawa's visionary new 310 Acre landmark community has arrived

https://mlsvc01-prod.s3.amazonaws.com/798f2cc1101/3eb63cce-347d-4bed-acc4-fe44f4a5f84a.png

Welcome to Wateridge Village, a sustainable new community minutes from downtown overlooking the Ottawa River. Celebrating both the legacy of the former Rockcliffe Lands and the brilliance of modern urban design. Visionary and masterful in scope, Wateridge Village will be home to design-forward residences, retail and office space, unparalleled amenities, beautiful parks, trails and so much more.

http://www.wateridge.ca

movebyleap
Nov 30, 2015, 3:15 AM
Perhaps this seems petty, but I'm not a fan of the double "idge" in the name. (In this case "age" and "idge", both pronounced identically though spelled differently). It's kind of annoying and uncomfortable to say "Wateridge Village". It simply doesn't flow.

Norman Bates
Nov 30, 2015, 4:03 AM
Sounds like a name designed by committee. Well I guess it probably is.

lrt's friend
Nov 30, 2015, 4:16 AM
Now I know where they got the name...
http://forums.redflagdeals.com/costco-water-ridge-one-piece-toilet-1411707/

Wateridge is a make of toilet!

Cross-branding opportunity?

I laughed the very next garbage day after the name was announced that my neighbour put out a Water Ridge toilet box.

movebyleap
Nov 30, 2015, 4:27 AM
Geez...you'd think someone on that committee would have said that this is an awkward sounding name or that it sounds like a toilet company.

JM1
Nov 30, 2015, 5:18 AM
I wonder if the name was submitted as a joke?

Can't these people use Google? All they had to do was google the name!

Geez...you'd think someone on that committee would have said that this is an awkward sounding name or that it sounds like a toilet company.

waterloowarrior
Dec 2, 2015, 11:50 PM
rezoning report
http://app05.ottawa.ca/sirepub/mtgviewer.aspx?meetid=6477&doctype=agenda&itemid=335677

lrt's friend
Dec 3, 2015, 3:18 PM
I am sorry, but I am still laughing here. Looking at the logo, knowing that there is a Water Ridge toilet, I can't stop thinking of swirling water going down a toilet. If this name goes off the rails or the plans don't turn out as well as everybody hopes, there is real opportunity for sarcastic nick names such as Toilet Town.

rocketphish
Apr 27, 2016, 2:30 AM
Infrastructure work begins in Wateridge Village

Apr 26, 2016

If you have walked, cycled or driven by the site lately you may have noticed some construction activity. Canada Lands is beginning the required infrastructure work that will support the residents and homes in this new community. Some of the works include sewers, water management systems and roads installation.

Thanks to the tireless contributions and support of our stakeholders, in December of 2015, Ottawa City Council unanimously approved the Former CFB Rockcliffe Community Design Plan, Official Plan Amendment, Secondary Plan, Master Servicing Study, and Low Impact Development stormwater management pilot project.

Those plans are now taking shape as Wateridge Village begins its first steps towards becoming a reality. A key aspect of this community will be its integrated system of pathways, parks and natural areas, which will offer access to open space for everyone living or working in the community and surrounding area.

Did you know that:


Over 25% of the site will be devoted to green space (parks, open space and natural areas). In comparison, typical new developments may devote significantly less.
Over 800 new trees will be planted just in our first phase alone called Phase 1A.
Significant tree groupings, natural areas, natural water retention swales and ponds as well as 10 parks overall, will be included.


The result? An inclusive community, naturally integrated into its environment with housing, local businesses and green spaces; it will be a new place of pride not just for the community, but the entire of City of Ottawa.

To allow this to happen, some of the existing trees and other landscaping are being removed, but don't be alarmed! All of this work is part of the comprehensive tree plan that has been developed and approved by the City of Ottawa. We are confident the green spaces, foliage and well thought out public landscaping that will replace what is now a derelict site will be worth the wait.

The importance of environmental impacts on a community, in the present and for the future, has always been part of Canada Lands' approach to our projects. We heard from the outset that these values are echoed by those in the community, and those principles are entrenched in the design plans we are implementing.

We look forward to continually working with all of you to ensure that Wateridge Village realizes the vision as set out in the plan and encourage you to provide your feedback or send inquiries via email, Facebook or online at www.clcrockcliffe.ca.

- See more at: http://www.clcrockcliffe.ca/en/news/infrastructure-work-begins-wateridge-village

Uhuniau
Apr 27, 2016, 2:36 PM
What is Ottawa's obsession with building suburban crap and calling it a "village"?

Skipper
Apr 27, 2016, 9:31 PM
I wonder which developers will build there, other than Uniform Developments which have already posted on their website that they will build at Wateridge???

http://uniformdevelopments.com/new-homes/wateridge-village-at-rockliffe/

kwoldtimer
Apr 27, 2016, 10:43 PM
What is Ottawa's obsession with building suburban crap and calling it a "village"?

I could share a concern with suburban crap, but what's the problem with a "village" moniker? And why do you think it affects Ottawa more than other cities?

YOWetal
Apr 28, 2016, 5:00 AM
What is Ottawa's obsession with building suburban crap and calling it a "village"?

This is almost a perfect grid and fairly high density for a suburban location how do you think this is crap?

MoreTrains
Apr 28, 2016, 1:22 PM
This is almost a perfect grid and fairly high density for a suburban location how do you think this is crap?

But it isn't a Suburban location...

kwoldtimer
Apr 28, 2016, 1:31 PM
But it isn't a Suburban location...

It's beyond Manor Park, which I always think of as a (very nice) suburb. Am I suburb-challenged? :shrug:

kwoldtimer
Apr 28, 2016, 1:32 PM
edit

Uhuniau
Apr 28, 2016, 3:07 PM
I could share a concern with suburban crap, but what's the problem with a "village" moniker? And why do you think it affects Ottawa more than other cities?

It implies some sort of pastoralism which simply doesn't exist, and sets up future "ERMAGERD THIS PROJECT DESTROYS THE 'VILLAGE' FEEL" arguments against new development.

Uhuniau
Apr 28, 2016, 3:11 PM
This is almost a perfect grid and fairly high density for a suburban location how do you think this is crap?

There are still too many curvilinear streets and dead ends, poor integration to the surrounding street network, too much edge, a poorly-conceived centre, and too damn much precious open happy public green space.

Uhuniau
Apr 28, 2016, 3:14 PM
It's beyond Manor Park, which I always think of as a (very nice) suburb. Am I suburb-challenged? :shrug:

Our planning and building efforts should be aimed at pushing urbism outwards. Instead, it's letting suburbanism infiltrate inwards. Cf. the Landry Street redevelopment in Vanier, the stupid little enclaves of private streets off Somerset West, the curvy and poorly-integrated Lebreton projects.

Capital Shaun
Apr 28, 2016, 3:53 PM
Our planning and building efforts should be aimed at pushing urbism outwards. Instead, it's letting suburbanism infiltrate inwards. Cf. the Landry Street redevelopment in Vanier, the stupid little enclaves of private streets off Somerset West, the curvy and poorly-integrated Lebreton projects.

Completely agree. The new subdivisions being built in more central neighbourhoods, even when they increase density, are not urban and the new roads built don't integrate into the existing street grid. The rows & condos south of Landry St are a great example of this as it does feel like an enclave separate from the rest of the neighbourhood.

kwoldtimer
Apr 28, 2016, 3:57 PM
It implies some sort of pastoralism which simply doesn't exist, and sets up future "ERMAGERD THIS PROJECT DESTROYS THE 'VILLAGE' FEEL" arguments against new development.

To me, "Wateridge Farms" or "Waterridge Fields" would convey a (false) "pastoralism". "Villiage" seems to me intended to generate a sense of local community. :shrug:

Personally, I might have gone with something like "The Base", but then I'm not in marketing. ;)

waterloowarrior
Jun 10, 2016, 3:08 PM
Claridge
http://home.claridgehomes.com/Wateridge-Village-registration.html

Norman Bates
Jun 10, 2016, 3:54 PM
Well, Claridge is certainly another cloud over what should be a charmed development.

bradnixon
Jun 10, 2016, 5:28 PM
Claridge
http://home.claridgehomes.com/Wateridge-Village-registration.html

But also
Uniform: http://uniformdevelopments.com/new-homes/wateridge-village-at-rockliffe/
Tartan: http://tartanhomes.com/wateridge/

rocketphish
Jun 10, 2016, 5:38 PM
This is interesting:

Wateridge Village at Rockcliffe

TENDER NOTICE: Subdivision Site Servicing – Phase 1A

Canada Lands Company CLC Limited is an arms-length, self-financing Crown Corporation owned by the Government of Canada. Canada Lands is seeking bids on the site servicing for the first phase of the Wateridge Village development on the former Rockcliffe airbase.

Sealed tenders are invited for the above captioned project clearly marked addressed to IBI Group Suite 400 - 333 Preston St, Ottawa, ON K1S 5N4 Attention: Jim Moffatt and will be received up to 1:00 p.m. local time, Friday April 22nd, 2016.

Copies of plans and specifications may be obtained from the offices of IBI Group on April 4th, 2016 for a non-refundable deposit of $100.00 (inclusive of H.S.T.). Details of the 2 envelope bid system are included in the Instructions to Bidders.

Project Overview:

• Approximately 4500 linear meters of roadway including all
underground servicing, appurtenances and utilities;
• Excavation of a major stormwater management facility
including appurtenances;
• Installation of large diameter storm pipe outleting at the
Ottawa River and;
• Construction of a 20 meter vertical waterfall feature

A bid security of 10% will be required.

http://www.tanakiwin.com/wp-system/uploads/2013/10/Tender-Citizen-2016-Wateridge-copy.pdf


Would this be from the "village" atop the bluff down to the retention pond beside the parkway?

TMA-1
Jun 10, 2016, 8:09 PM
Rockcliffe airport has a right hand circuit, for various reasons. This means everyone landing does a 1200' overhead the field run from south to north. This means all of CFB Rockcliffe will hear the dulcet tones of 172s. Close up. Often. One hopes that whomever ends up living there has sense enough to realize they're living beside and AIRPORT, which got there first, and just accept it. I can imagine a great many unhappy, surprised!, people, though.

It's quite a pleasant place in an evening sunny break. Fairly hard to get a decent shot of the area as it seems impossible to do a flypast at 3000'. It's always "Oh, we're landing now? OK.". Boom we're down 5 minutes later.

From over the Glebe.

https://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7333/27586726305_875041da82_h.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/J2KbCa)

CFB rockcliffe-D820145 (https://flic.kr/p/J2KbCa)

by Chuck Clark (https://www.flickr.com/photos/23575605@N08/), on Flickr

Uhuniau
Jun 10, 2016, 9:47 PM
If it wasn't completely screened by the trees we've let grow up, I'd be able to see my house in that shot!!!!! Nice!

Norman Bates
Sep 4, 2016, 9:13 PM
I was in a helicopter today that flew over the former Rockliffe base and saw that all of the buildings have been removed as have the streets.

There were a number of the large diameter sewer pipes laying about so efforts are underway to install new services.

YOWetal
Sep 6, 2016, 10:13 AM
Completely agree. The new subdivisions being built in more central neighbourhoods, even when they increase density, are not urban and the new roads built don't integrate into the existing street grid. The rows & condos south of Landry St are a great example of this as it does feel like an enclave separate from the rest of the neighbourhood.

How would you change the development south of Landry?

Uhuniau
Sep 6, 2016, 7:55 PM
How would you change the development south of Landry?

Dunno about Capital Shaun, but I argued that the Landry site needed to have a street grid that was an extension of the existing grid to the north and east.

Instead, we got a hideous suburban enclave, partly thanks to the neighbours to the north who insisted on design and architectural changes that made the new development much less integrated with the existing fabric. Landry could have had a great street presence along its south side; instead they built a faint replica of some garbage 1970s development in south Gloucester.

I would have told the neighbours to go to hell, myself, and in those exact words.

Capital Shaun
Sep 6, 2016, 8:37 PM
How would you change the development south of Landry?

What Uhuniau posted sums it up pretty well.

But in reality it's too late to change anything. The houses are there and aren't going anywhere anytime soon.

Uhuniau
Sep 6, 2016, 8:48 PM
What Uhuniau posted sums it up pretty well.

But in reality it's too late to change anything. The houses are there and aren't going anywhere anytime soon.

And yet there'll be more: just like those horrid little "____ Private" developments that have popped up in established neighbourhoods, rather than using the existing names of the existing streets that they are on.

Also: what is with the fetish at City Hall of renaming disconnected street segments (which is bad enough), but calling them SOMETHING "Way"?

Why not Street?

Why "Way"?

Who at City Hall is so anti-street?

Cre47
Sep 17, 2016, 6:37 PM
http://clcrockcliffe.ca/en/news/wateridge-newsletter-vol-2-september-2016

Apparently once the first 50 homes will be built and occupied which may be sometime next year, there will be an extension of route 129 during rush hour (8 morning trips and 8 afternoon trips) serving the area

TMA-1
Oct 19, 2016, 8:32 PM
I can't wait for the people moving in, who signed the form stating they KNOW they're right beside an active airport and are under the pattern, to complain of the noise from airplanes. Storm water management going on now. At least the sewage management is easy being that close to the treatment plant.


https://c5.staticflickr.com/6/5656/29804002604_bfc64500dc_h.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/MpFiBS)

Former Canadian Forces base near Rockcliffe airport, redevelopment (https://flic.kr/p/MpFiBS) by Chuck Clark (https://www.flickr.com/photos/23575605@N08/), on Flickr

Norman Bates
Oct 20, 2016, 12:32 AM
I thought I heard today that Tartan or Tamarack - or maybe another T company - was going to be building there.

rocketphish
Oct 20, 2016, 12:48 AM
I thought I heard today that Tartan or Tamarack - or maybe another T company - was going to be building there.

Claridge, Tartan and Uniform Urban Developments.

http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showpost.php?p=7470369&postcount=426

rocketphish
Nov 29, 2016, 12:15 AM
Development group unveils future of former CFB Rockcliffe air base

Paula McCooey, Ottawa Citizen
Published on: November 28, 2016 | Last Updated: November 28, 2016 5:52 PM EST

Plans for a new residential community at CFB Rockcliffe were unveiled Monday afternoon when the development group — including Canada Lands Company, the Algonquins of Ontario and three local builders — presented the official plan for a sustainable 310-acre community that will house 10,000 residents.

After a decade of public consultations, various proposed plans, and stalls, the group launched Wateridge Village, which will be a mixed-use community that will include single-family homes and low to mid-rise residential buildings, as well as retail and office space, green spaces and trails.

“This project is not just another residential project in the city of Ottawa,” said Jean Lachance, senior director of real estate for the crown corporation Canada Lands Company, at the launch. “It is at its core a city building initiative. The development that is taking shape here will benefit not only the people who live here but the wider community with new amenities and green spaces that will be enjoyed for generations.”

The launch began with a smudging ceremony — an indigenous ritual to purify the energy of a space or item — followed by an opening prayer by Algonquin Elder Irvin Sarazin, drumming and closing prayer. The custom was poignant given there has been ongoing tension over the use of the land. A native land claim was launched by the Algonquins of Ontario in 2007, halting the sale of the lands. In 2011, the claim was settled, allowing the Algonquins to receive financial compensation and have a say into future development plans for the former military base.

“We have a participation agreement between the Canada Lands Company and the Algonquins of Ontario … in all stages of concept development, land use planning, details, design,” said Lynn Clouthier, Algonquin negotiation representative for the Algonquins of Ontario, adding qualified Algonquin companies will be considered for contracts such as engineering and landscaping.

The ceremony took place in front of the three sales centre sites on Hemlock Road, just east of the Aviation Parkway. The builders, Uniform Urban Developments, Claridge Homes and Tartan Homes, officially opened their slick showrooms on Monday to showcase the first phase of the project that will include 750 homes, with construction expected to begin next summer.

The redevelopment of the former CFB Rockcliffe air force base — which sits on an escarpment overlooking the Ottawa River valley, east of St. Laurent Boulevard and north of Montreal Road — was approved by city council last fall.

Rideau-Rockcliffe Coun. Tobi Nussbaum said infrastructure work has already started to prepare the land for the first of at least four phases that will span 15 to 20 years.

“I think it’s a wonderful opportunity to build a sizable community pretty close to the urban core of the city,” he said. “And I think it’s going to be important … that we are giving people the option of doing all their shopping and services in the community itself.”

pmccooey@postmedia.com

http://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-news/development-group-unveils-future-of-former-cfb-rockcliffe-air-base

TMA-1
Dec 12, 2016, 11:01 PM
I wonder if the "crazy street" idea will outlast the winter :-) ?

https://c3.staticflickr.com/1/548/30766205434_35a67f7150_h.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/NSGQZQ)

crazy streets D820246 (https://flic.kr/p/NSGQZQ) by Chuck Clark (https://www.flickr.com/photos/23575605@N08/), on Flickr

Uhuniau
Mar 21, 2017, 8:10 PM
http://www.clcrockcliffe.ca/en/news/wateridge-village-two-parks

The Wateridge Village Community located on the site of the former Canadian Forces Base (CFB) Rockcliffe will eventually have ten (10) new parks.

Ten?

(10)?

TEN!??!?!?

McC
Mar 21, 2017, 9:19 PM
Glancing at the map, the area of CFB Rockliffe looks to be similar in size to Hintonburg. Hintonburg has 6 parks of varying sizes (that I know of) within its formal boundaries, and more large parks like Fairmont, Fisher, Reid and Laroche sitting just outside of those boundaries (in Fisher's case, literally across the street). Parks that are successful, well-used, and cater to different audiences and activities in the neighbourhood. I see nothing particularly out of proportion here.

Uhuniau
Mar 21, 2017, 9:37 PM
The damn thing is also surrounded on three sides by precious green space.

The green space fetish in this town...

YOWetal
Mar 21, 2017, 9:42 PM
The damn thing is also surrounded on three sides by precious green space.

The green space fetish in this town...

It is surrounded by what is for the most part useless green space. On the other hand small parks in residential areas are not a fetish but a necessity.

Uhuniau
Mar 21, 2017, 9:48 PM
It is surrounded by what is for the most part useless green space. On the other hand small parks in residential areas are not a fetish but a necessity.

Yes, but ten of the damn things in a development that has about ten developed blocks?!?!?!

Uhuniau
Mar 21, 2017, 10:13 PM
I guarantee you, between the city, the NCC, CanLands, and the forces of NIMBY massed around it, it'll get Lebretonized. And then some.

BUT AT LEAST THERE'LL BE LOTS OF FLUCKING GREEN SPACE.

From 2012.

Damn, I'm good.

Postmaster
Mar 21, 2017, 10:36 PM
Do they expect a big increase in local traffic? Seems that with the parkway having no westbound connection to the queensway things on Montreal might get pretty busy.

rocketphish
Mar 21, 2017, 10:37 PM
Some of the parks are quite small:

http://www.clcrockcliffe.ca/sites/default/files/resource_documents/cfb_rockcliffe_cdp_appendix_en_parks_master_plan.pdf

lrt's friend
Mar 21, 2017, 10:56 PM
Our Green space is exactly why Ottawa rates so highly on liveability scores. Don't wish for something different. If anything, we should be making our Green space better, with more connectivity in our trail systems (biking and walking).

Our 'useless' parkway networks and the trails that wander through them are the envy of most cities.

MaxHeadroom
Mar 22, 2017, 2:58 AM
Do they expect a big increase in local traffic? Seems that with the parkway having no westbound connection to the queensway things on Montreal might get pretty busy.It will be the same as every other development in Ottawa - build it first, then widen the roads later.

eltodesukane
Mar 22, 2017, 11:15 AM
"with more connectivity in our trail systems (biking and walking)." -- Yes!
This was not done for the Central Park Dr development, which is completely isolated except for it's openings on Merivale.
No connection to Caldwell or Clyde or Baseline.
https://www.google.ca/maps/@45.3682733,-75.7380661,1152m/data=!3m1!1e3

Uhuniau
Mar 22, 2017, 1:26 PM
Our Green space is exactly why Ottawa rates so highly on liveability scores. Don't wish for something different. If anything, we should be making our Green space better, with more connectivity in our trail systems (biking and walking).

I agree 100%.

Functional green space is good, and we could do a lot more to improve how our existing parks work.

But this is pure greenspace fetishism, toeing to some BS rule about the "correct" number of cubic farthings of park that a neighbourhood is supposed to have.

Our 'useless' parkway networks and the trails that wander through them are the envy of most cities.

I can't recall ever hearing a Normal Human from outside Ottawa express that view. Yes, the usual civic boosters say it all the time, but that's political boilerplate, like calling everything "world class".

McC
Mar 22, 2017, 1:45 PM
I can't recall ever hearing a Normal Human from outside Ottawa express that view.

Clearly you meet different people than I do, because I hear that from visitors (and even more so from newcomers to Ottawa) all the time. But instead of tit for tat anecdata, how about some self-selected survey data from Trip Advisor:

Rideau Canal
4.5 of 5 bubbles 3,583 reviews
#3 of 254 things to do in Ottawa
Hiking Trails

Sir John A. MacDonald Parkway
4.5 of 5 bubbles 338 reviews
#16 of 254 things to do in Ottawa
Biking Trails

and the parkways/pathways are also part of (and support) the attraction of other entries like the generic "walking tours" and "biking tours," the arboretum, Rideau Falls, the Locks, etc.

https://www.tripadvisor.ca/Attractions-g155004-Activities-Ottawa_Ontario.html

lrt's friend
Mar 22, 2017, 2:24 PM
In the City Discussions page, Mercers Top 20 Liveable cities for 2017 (Worldwide) included Ottawa. This is amazing achievement as Ottawa is probably the least well known city on the list. Ottawa's green space and access to nature is exactly why we appeared on the list. It left Montrealers in a knot since Vancouver, Toronto and Ottawa appeared on the list and Montreal did not (it ranked 23rd).

We should not be opposed to supporting a very green city. It is an amazing asset. On the contrary, we need to improve it even more. The same applies to the more urban parts of the city. But overall, we should not be so anxious to pave over everything.

Most cities are creating better public places even in an urban environments by adding greenery, whether trees or planters. This makes urban locations more inviting and moderates weather extremes.

Uhuniau
Mar 22, 2017, 3:30 PM
Clearly you meet different people than I do, because I hear that from visitors (and even more so from newcomers to Ottawa) all the time. But instead of tit for tat anecdata, how about some self-selected survey data from Trip Advisor:

Rideau Canal
4.5 of 5 bubbles 3,583 reviews
#3 of 254 things to do in Ottawa
Hiking Trails

Awesome. The Canal is not exactly what I would call "green space", but sure.


Sir John A. MacDonald Parkway
4.5 of 5 bubbles 338 reviews
#16 of 254 things to do in Ottawa
Biking Trails

Dear lord, Ottawa must get the world's most bored and boring tourists.

Uhuniau
Mar 22, 2017, 3:34 PM
In the City Discussions page, Mercers Top 20 Liveable cities for 2017 (Worldwide) included Ottawa. This is amazing achievement as Ottawa is probably the least well known city on the list. Ottawa's green space and access to nature is exactly why we appeared on the list. It left Montrealers in a knot since Vancouver, Toronto and Ottawa appeared on the list and Montreal did not (it ranked 23rd).

We should not be opposed to supporting a very green city.

Agreed. But that doesn't mean that our city plan should plonk down Green Space For Green Space's Sake all over the bloody place, especially when, as with the Brown Belt, the environmental impact of GSFGSS is often negative.

It is an amazing asset. On the contrary, we need to improve it even more.

Tear down all the buildings, rip out all the roads, and we'll have the most vibrant city in the universe!

"Green" space works, and is attractive to residents and tourists, when it is functional and tightly woven into the human and built fabric of the city. Way too much of Ottawa's green space is neither.

The same applies to the more urban parts of the city. But overall, we should not be so anxious to pave over everything.

We should also not be so anxious to build pointless stupid empty culturally sterile green spaces solely to satisfy some arbitary and unjustified formula.

Most cities are creating better public places even in an urban environments by adding greenery, whether trees or planters. This makes urban locations more inviting and moderates weather extremes.

We have plenty enough such greenery. Ottawa needs more and better built environment, and better integration and functionality of too many of its sterile and pointless publicopengreenspaces.

acottawa
Mar 22, 2017, 5:19 PM
Dear lord, Ottawa must get the world's most bored and boring tourists.

I suspect the Ibiza crowd don't seek out Ottawa as a tourist destination.

McC
Mar 22, 2017, 5:19 PM
this is tiresome. nobody, including the proponents of this project, is talking about empty green space. let's move on please.

TheGoods
Mar 22, 2017, 5:34 PM
dear lord, ottawa must get the world's most bored and boring tourists.

lol

TMA-1
Jun 8, 2017, 10:55 PM
Saturday the 3rd.

Well, the storm water waterfall has been a disappointment.


https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4204/35055553011_76484e45ac_k.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/VpJSAp)

cfb rockcliffe D827293 (https://flic.kr/p/VpJSAp) by Chuck Clark (https://www.flickr.com/photos/23575605@N08/), on Flickr

Uhuniau
Jun 9, 2017, 5:52 PM
That latest Chuck Clark aerial makes it abundantly clear how important it is, in the mid- to long-term, to start bringing the city to Montreal Road.

Why is everything set back so far?

Can we stop building that way? Please?

waterloowarrior
Jun 10, 2017, 1:14 AM
to be fair this site doesn't have frontage on Montreal
http://www.clcrockcliffe.ca/sites/default/files/styles/large/public/Aerial_RED-Boundary_web.jpg?itok=y7nxsmmk
http://www.clcrockcliffe.ca/en/content/site-description

waterloowarrior
Jun 10, 2017, 4:19 PM
close up of some of the SWM infrastructure from reddit...

https://i.redd.it/zhlh69ur2q2z.jpg

https://www.reddit.com/r/ottawa/comments/6gcpg3/found_my_new_favourite_spot_in_the_city_confused/

Uhuniau
Jun 12, 2017, 3:51 PM
to be fair this site doesn't have frontage on Montreal
http://www.clcrockcliffe.ca/sites/default/files/styles/large/public/Aerial_RED-Boundary_web.jpg?itok=y7nxsmmk
http://www.clcrockcliffe.ca/en/content/site-description

Nope, but also not germaine to my point about the god-awful low-density planning that extends east of Montreal Road once you get out of the downtown core of Vanier.

kwoldtimer
Jun 12, 2017, 4:42 PM
Nope, but also not germaine to my point about the god-awful low-density planning that extends east of Montreal Road once you get out of the downtown core of Vanier.

To be fair, your original post was not clear (to me anyway). You have now clarified. I doubt many would disagree with you. Personally, I'm usually so appalled when driving north along St Laurent, that it comes as a slight relief to turn east onto Montreal Rd!

TMA-1
Jun 12, 2017, 8:54 PM
As a matter of fact the flat vastness of nearby Orleans defeats my normal 70-200 every time (a bit off topic but, it's hot, what the hell). So, little CFB is just right :-)

https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4214/35140045221_8cfc4b6065_h.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/VxcVbD)

orleans ontario D824359 (https://flic.kr/p/VxcVbD) by Chuck Clark (https://www.flickr.com/photos/23575605@N08/), on Flickr




Nope, but also not germaine to my point about the god-awful low-density planning that extends east of Montreal Road once you get out of the downtown core of Vanier.

Mikeed
Jun 13, 2017, 12:25 AM
I will admit- all these aerial pictures had me dreaming up an elevated LRT down Montreal Rd. Vanier is not an area of the city I have often been in, but lately one of my friends have been living in Vanier, so I've been in the area more often.

Between Wateridge (the redevelopment of an airbase), the NRC properties and generally *a lot* of Vanier & Gloucester has vast areas that can be re-developed into more density.

Starting to imagine a small tunnel from Rideau Station to the Rideau River, and then it would be quite possible to have an elevated LRT down Montreal Road.

Can then grade down to at grade, and spin around and head back West to Blair on the side of the highway.


never going to happen, but having zoomed around Ottawa again on Google Earth for the countless time. I dare say- of all the possibilities in Ottawa of using rapid transit to re-invent an entire region of the city- Montreal road is pretty much it. Even more so then Carling Ave.

Part of this delusional dream is there are enough open spaces to have a site on the right of way where the guideway could be mass produced like how the Confederation Bridge was built- mass producing components at a staging site and moved into place with remotely operated movers.

Uhuniau
Jun 13, 2017, 3:52 PM
Starting to imagine a small tunnel from Rideau Station to the Rideau River, and then it would be quite possible to have an elevated LRT down Montreal Road.

Eastern portal would probably have to surface well east of the Rideau River.

I dare say- of all the possibilities in Ottawa of using rapid transit to re-invent an entire region of the city- Montreal road is pretty much it. Even more so then Carling Ave.

Yip. Which is why it will never happen: the City of Ottawa treats that entire corner of town as invisible. Investment is for the nice people in Westboro.

JM1
Jun 13, 2017, 10:29 PM
The near east sector of Ottawa Is underserved by roads and transit. Road access to downtown is thwarted by the river and canal (and congested crossings and intersections -- Rideau/Sussex/Wellington and Mackenzie King Bridge/Waller/Bessemer/Dalhousie/Laurier).

This is compounded by Quebec bridge cut through traffic to Orleans and a lack of transit solutions.

We need a Montreal Road or Beechwood tram, enhanced by a gondola crossing of the river from the rapid bus line to Montreal Road at CFB Rockcliffe.

lrt's friend
Jun 14, 2017, 2:22 AM
The near east sector of Ottawa Is underserved by roads and transit. Road access to downtown is thwarted by the river and canal (and congested crossings and intersections -- Rideau/Sussex/Wellington and Mackenzie King Bridge/Waller/Bessemer/Dalhousie/Laurier).

This is compounded by Quebec bridge cut through traffic to Orleans and a lack of transit solutions.

We need a Montreal Road or Beechwood tram, enhanced by a gondola crossing of the river from the rapid bus line to Montreal Road at CFB Rockcliffe.

Sounds like my suggestion a while back that would also connect to a downtown circulator tram to serve downtown Hull and Zibi.

eltodesukane
Jun 14, 2017, 1:50 PM
close up of some of the SWM infrastructure from reddit...

https://www.reddit.com/r/ottawa/comments/6gcpg3/found_my_new_favourite_spot_in_the_city_confused/

SWM ? Schweitzer-Mauduit International Inc ?

Uhuniau
Jun 14, 2017, 1:54 PM
The near east sector of Ottawa Is underserved by roads and transit. Road access to downtown is thwarted by the river and canal (and congested crossings and intersections -- Rideau/Sussex/Wellington and Mackenzie King Bridge/Waller/Bessemer/Dalhousie/Laurier).

This is compounded by Quebec bridge cut through traffic to Orleans and a lack of transit solutions.

We need a Montreal Road or Beechwood tram, enhanced by a gondola crossing of the river from the rapid bus line to Montreal Road at CFB Rockcliffe.

Any fixed transit to the east has to be Montreal, not Beechwood, for the cachement area. And a surface tram would end up with the same problems as the surface buses.

But the residents of the east side and other non-CBD parts of the city core don't need to fret about it, since our only connection to LRT or mass-transit expansion is to pay for it, not actually get any of it.

TMA-1
Jun 14, 2017, 9:54 PM
Storm Water Management. There are many SWM ponds, everywhere, but this is the most photogenic I've seen.


https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4211/34468002914_4c1a4f3303_k.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/UvPwqj)

storm water management D825748 (https://flic.kr/p/UvPwqj) by Chuck Clark (https://www.flickr.com/photos/23575605@N08/), on Flickr


SWM ? Schweitzer-Mauduit International Inc ?

rocketphish
Jun 20, 2017, 4:46 PM
In the news...

Mattamy Homes branches out with significant acquisition in Ottawa's Wateridge Village

OTTAWA, June 16, 2017 /CNW/ - Mattamy Homes, North America's largest privately owned homebuilder, is pleased to announce that it has acquired a significant position in the Wateridge development on the former Canadian Forces Base Rockliffe from the Canada Lands Company (CLC).

The acquisition, Mattamy's first foray into urban Ottawa, consists of nearly 14 acres across four separate blocks. The company plans to build approximately 650 units on the site over the next five years, featuring a diverse mix of mid-rise product including rear-lane townhomes, stacked townhomes and six-story mid-rise construction. With this acquisition, Mattamy Homes is diversifying from a predominantly low-rise builder in the Ottawa suburban market.

"Our objective with this community will be to establish a new benchmark for partnership and architectural excellence in the heart of Ottawa," says Kevin O'Shea, Mattamy's Division President, Ottawa. "We are so excited to work with the City of Ottawa and other partners to create something unique, and to engage in a bold vision for the future of development in our city. All of us at Mattamy are looking forward to the opportunities this will create for the company to venture into more infill opportunities."

Mattamy's sales centre will open in the spring of 2018 with occupancy of the first homes anticipated for the spring of 2019.

Wateridge Villiage is a mixed-use development in the heart of Rockliffe that will eventually be home to approximately 9,800 residents.

About Mattamy Homes
Mattamy Homes is the largest privately owned homebuilder in North America, with operations across Canada and the United States. Mattamy has sold 90,000 homes in hundreds of communities. In Canada, those communities stretch across the Greater Toronto Area, as well as in Ottawa, Calgary and Edmonton. In the United States, the company is represented in nine metropolitan areas – Charlotte, Phoenix, Tucson, Jacksonville, Orlando, Tampa, Sarasota, Naples and Southeast Florida. Visit www.mattamyhomes.com for more information.

SOURCE Mattamy Homes Limited

For further information: Jason Rumer, Vice President, Land Development, Mattamy Homes Limited, Jason.Rumer@mattamycorp.com
RELATED LINKS
http://www.mattamyhomes.com/

http://www.newswire.ca/news-releases/mattamy-homes-branches-out-with-significant-acquisition-in-ottawas-wateridge-village-628851593.html


Homebuilder Mattamy buys 14 acres in former CFB Rockcliffe in Ottawa
Mattamy Homes, alongside Claridge Homes, Uniform Urban Developments and Tartan Homes, are developing separate parcels of the former CFB Rockcliffe.

By: Peter Kovessy, OBJ
Published: Jun 20, 2017 12:10pm EDT

With the first new homes at the former Canadian Forces Base Rockcliffe under construction and slated for occupancy later this year, another major homebuilder has secured a stake in the massive redevelopment project.

Mattamy Homes says it’s purchased four blocks of land totalling nearly 14 acres. The developer says it plans to construct 650 homes, consisting of rear-lane townhomes, stacked townhomes and a six-storey mid-rise on its property.

Other parts of the former airbase are being developed separately by Claridge Homes, Uniform Urban Developments and Tartan Homes.

“Our objective with this community will be to establish a new benchmark for ... architectural excellence in the heart of Ottawa,” Kevin O'Shea, Mattamy's division president for Ottawa, said in a statement.

CFB Rockcliffe officially closed in 2009 and was bought by the Canada Lands Co. two years later. The Crown corporation specializes in disposing of surplus federal land in a way that benefits the surrounding community.

The redevelopment project, dubbed Wateridge Village, consists of 310 acres of land located about five kilometres east of downtown Ottawa. In addition to homes for some 10,000 residents, plans call for retail and office space as well as new parks and recreation trails.

Earlier this year, CLC said Uniform had started to dig basement foundations for its homes and that the first residents were expected to move in by late 2017.

Meanwhile, CLC is starting to construct parks and infrastructure such as sewers, watermains and new roads.

http://www.obj.ca/article/homebuilder-mattamy-buys-14-acres-former-cfb-rockcliffe-ottawa

bradnixon
Jun 21, 2017, 4:52 PM
http://www.clcrockcliffe.ca/en/news/update-1


Canada Lands Company is pleased to announce that Mattamy Homes has signed on to be a builder partner in the next phase of Wateridge Village. To receive more information visit Mattamy's website at: https://mattamyhomes.com/ottawa/communities/rockcliffe-wateridge-village.aspx


https://mlsvc01-prod.s3.amazonaws.com/798f2cc1101/8b3ab859-f4af-4c8e-b870-aefe7c485e26.png

rocketphish
Aug 23, 2017, 5:16 PM
Mattamy's development application:
http://app01.ottawa.ca/postingplans/appDetails.jsf?lang=en&appId=__AP05D1

In a nutshell... lots 'o townhomes.

rocketphish
Sep 11, 2017, 11:47 AM
Veterans to help build new affordable housing for fellow veterans

by Michelle Nash Baker, Ottawa East News
Aug 30, 2017

https://dynamicmedia.zuza.com/zz/m/original_/b/1/b1ec2e00-b795-4b73-96e3-4131d3ad77f2/VeteransHouse-Rendering_1___Super_Portrait.jpg

A new housing project planned for CFB Rockcliffe is looking at getting veterans to help veterans.

The Multifaith Housing Initiative first announced the $8-million plan to build veterans housing, explaining the project will place a roof over the heads of at least 40 veterans on the former Canadian Forces Air Base in 2014.

The building will follow a housing first model and will include social support to help those with health conditions.

Construction is expected to begin in 2018.

Since that announcement, the organization has created multiple partnerships to get the job done – including its latest partner – Helmets to Hardhats – who announced a $25,000 donation to the project on Aug. 29 at the HMCS Bytown Officers’ Mess.

President of Multifaith Housing Initiative Mike Ward called the project an important one, adding that the status quo can not continue.

“Homeless veterans are more likely to be living on the streets than in a shelter,” Ward said, adding he is hoping that this project not only helps veterans but also gives them a chance to be a part of the building process.

“They were there for us in the past and it's our turn to be there for them now,” Ward said.

Executive director Suzanne Le said this project, in this location – a former air base – is the best way to commemorate the history of the site.

Innes Coun. Jody Mitic, a veteran of the Canadian Forces, has been supportive of the project since it was first announced in 2014, when he was then only a newly sworn-in councillor.

"We know they're out there,” Mitic said. “We're gonna support them. Veterans House is the first step."

Multifaith Housing Initiative is a coalition of faith communities that provide and promote affordable housing for lower income households in Ottawa. It currently owns and operates 139 rental-housing units.

Helmets to Hardhats Canada provides Canadian military veterans and serving reservists with opportunities for apprenticeship training and careers in Canada’s building and construction industries.

National executive director of Helmets to Hardhats, Greg Matte said he is hoping his organization’s contribution to the project will help veterans rebuild their lives.

Matte added he feels those veterans who help construct the building will gain valuable training through the experience.

“Veterans House is an important and long overdue project for veterans in Ottawa,” Matte said.

The Veterans House project has multiple partners including Ottawa Salus, which will provide the support services, CAHDCO, which is in charge of developing and managing the construction, Royal Canadian Legion Ontario Command and District G, Soldiers Helping Soldiers, VETS Canada, True Patriot Love, Canadian Forces Morale and Welfare Services, and Support our Troops.

Each organization will be bringing its own expertise and help to the project, Le said.

“We owe these men, we owe them,” Le said. “The debt goes deep. The fact that any one of them are living on the streets is unacceptable to me.”

Le added that there is no doubt the 40 units will fill up quickly.


by Michelle Nash Baker
Email: michelle.nash@metroland.com

https://www.ottawacommunitynews.com/news-story/7529286-veterans-to-help-build-new-affordable-housing-for-fellow-veterans/

rocketphish
Sep 11, 2017, 11:50 AM
Veterans house

Project Overview

This Veterans House project specifically targets the needs of the rising number of homeless veterans who are 'living rough' in Ottawa.

The project will include support services designed to meet the particular needs of homeless or precariously housed veterans in the Ottawa area. The supportive “Housing First” housing model will help these individuals gain stable housing, and recover from health, mental health and addiction-related issues. The supported housing model is designed to improve their overall quality of life, as well as the lives of their families who are unable to provide them with the support that they need.

For this Veterans House initiative MHI will own the Veterans House building and manage the property. Using the Former CFB Rockcliffe Airbase Lands in Ottawa, the proposed building will comprise three floors of living space, one floor of communal space and a basement for administrative purposes. This unit will be modelled after Mainstay house in Toronto and Cockrell House in BC.

Site Plan and Renderings

http://www.multifaithhousing.ca/uploads/1/3/0/4/13047577/site-plan-and-renderings-2-page-1_orig.jpg

http://www.multifaithhousing.ca/uploads/1/3/0/4/13047577/site-plan-and-renderings-2-page-2_orig.jpg

http://www.multifaithhousing.ca/uploads/1/3/0/4/13047577/site-plan-and-renderings-2-page-3_orig.jpg

Project partners and stakeholders


Multifaith Housing Initiative
Ottawa Salus
Soldiers Helping Soldiers
The Royal Canadian Legion Ontario Command and District G
True Patriot Love
Canada Lands Company
Centertown Affordable Housing Development Corporation


http://www.multifaithhousing.ca/veterans-house.html

J.OT13
Sep 12, 2017, 6:21 PM
Is there such a thing as affordable housing for Veterans in the same way we have Ottawa Housing or First Nation Housing?

rocketphish
Oct 17, 2017, 12:13 AM
Wateridge Village Phase 1B (Mattamy)

Mattamy Homes has acquired four Blocks in Wateridge Village Phase 1B at Rockcliffe Subdivision, developed by Canada Lands Company. The Blocks are identified as Block 15, Block 19, Block 22, and Block 24. Mattamy is currently pursuing Site Plan Control approval for the development of Block 15, Block 22, and Block 24

Mattamy has designed these Blocks with middle housing types of rear lane townhouse (RLT) and stacked townhouse dwellings. These housing types will form a community that provides a gradual transition of the housing landscape and densities between the existing residential areas and the Wateridge Village core.


Site:

https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4502/23891275988_812e809fbb_h.jpg


Elevations:

https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4493/37712296782_c028a22728_h.jpg

https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4496/23891276228_ba7eb8d4c8_h.jpg


Renderings:

https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4461/23891276358_d2ace142d4_o.jpg

https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4474/37712296252_2899c4e2bc_o.jpg

https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4461/23891275688_3077242ba6_o.jpg

https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4473/37712296642_f05c1b1b2b_o.jpg


From: http://webcast.ottawa.ca/plan/All_Image Referencing_Site Plan Application_Image Reference_2017-09-29 Urban Design Review Panel Formal Submission1.PDF

Harley613
Oct 17, 2017, 3:05 AM
I will believe the floating boardwalk, rocks, planters, and mood lighting when I see it. These renderings are getting out of hand.

lrt's friend
Oct 17, 2017, 4:53 PM
I will believe the floating boardwalk, rocks, planters, and mood lighting when I see it. These renderings are getting out of hand.

Yes, it looks like a residential wonderland. I bet the end result does not look anything like this.

AndyMEng
Oct 17, 2017, 5:57 PM
Yes, it looks like a residential wonderland. I bet the end result does not look anything like this.

Oh it'll look like that for a couple years then the condo board will value it out.

BTW I've never understood the 'jumble' effect that architects are going for these days. Looks messy here, and will be very dated right away. What's wrong with simplicity, elegant detailing with high quality materials? Why do we have to have 8 colours of EIFS?

dougvdh
Oct 17, 2017, 7:23 PM
Oh it'll look like that for a couple years then the condo board will value it out.

BTW I've never understood the 'jumble' effect that architects are going for these days. Looks messy here, and will be very dated right away. What's wrong with simplicity, elegant detailing with high quality materials? Why do we have to have 8 colours of EIFS?

Here's how it might look if done in Copenhagen today: https://flic.kr/p/MUTkWq (No EIFS!)

AndyMEng
Oct 17, 2017, 8:16 PM
Here's how it might look if done in Copenhagen today: https://flic.kr/p/MUTkWq (No EIFS!)

YES. See? This is exactly what I'm talking about. Simple materials done well. No fanagled sheet metals, fancy particle boards, styrofoam fakery, or poorly designed weatherproofing that some poor construction worker has to poorly detail because there's just so many frigging overlapping cladding styles.

Arcologist
Oct 18, 2017, 2:54 PM
These lands would have been perfect for something along the lines of what's being done in Toronto's Port Lands with Alphabet's Sidewalk Labs. https://www.sidewalklabs.com/

Instead, we're going to get typical Claridge-like crap with floating docks...

lrt's friend
Oct 18, 2017, 3:23 PM
These lands would have been perfect for something along the lines of what's being done in Toronto's Port Lands with Alphabet's Sidewalk Labs. https://www.sidewalklabs.com/

Instead, we're going to get typical Claridge-like crap with floating docks...

What a concept. Putting people first. Wouldn't this start an urban revolution? Putting people first should now be the concept applied to all urban design and even more so, suburban design. This would be a game changer.

waterloowarrior
Oct 19, 2017, 12:41 PM
First Home Owners Move in at Former Ottawa Rockcliffe Airbase
http://hansonthebike.com/2017/10/19/home-owners-move-rockcliffe-airbase/

Lots of pics!

kwoldtimer
Oct 19, 2017, 12:56 PM
SFH and semis seem like such a waste on that site

Arcologist
Oct 19, 2017, 1:39 PM
SFH and semis seem like such a waste on that site

Big time. So uninspiring.

MoreTrains
Oct 19, 2017, 4:49 PM
Not just uninspiring, but just poor city building and planning.

Uhuniau
Oct 20, 2017, 3:05 AM
Not just uninspiring, but just poor city building and planning.

Did you not read the CanLands and developers' bumpf about how vibrant it all is? Vibrant! Vibrant! SO VIBRANT!

Postmaster
Oct 26, 2017, 6:26 PM
Can anyone explain to me the new trend of woodchips instead of sand? I'm sure it's one of think-of-the-children folks that heard sand captures bacteria or something. I guess nobody thought of splinters?

acottawa
Oct 26, 2017, 6:55 PM
Can anyone explain to me the new trend of woodchips instead of sand? I'm sure it's one of think-of-the-children folks that heard sand captures bacteria or something. I guess nobody thought of splinters?

Sand is actually better.

http://www.sickkids.ca/AboutSickKids/Newsroom/Past-News/2009/playground.html

waterloowarrior
Oct 26, 2017, 10:23 PM
It could be engineered wood fibre - one of the big advantages is that it's wheelchair accessible, whereas sand is not. Since 2016 municipalities have had additional requirements under the AODA to make their playgrounds more accessible.

TMA-1
Oct 26, 2017, 10:46 PM
Trouble is entering the pattern at the airport brings one low and slow and directly over the development. Very hard to get a decent picture.

The purple ones are cute.

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4485/24102276038_b9394f6e75_h.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/CHQsXq)

(https://flic.kr/p/CHQsXq) by Chuck Clark (https://www.flickr.com/photos/23575605@N08/), on Flickr

First Home Owners Move in at Former Ottawa Rockcliffe Airbase
http://hansonthebike.com/2017/10/19/home-owners-move-rockcliffe-airbase/

Lots of pics!

Davis137
Oct 27, 2017, 12:24 AM
Love all these new age developments with ZERO lot, garages that often don't hold full-sized vehicles, hog pens for back yards and unfinished basements...guess those granite countertops and stainless steel appliances make up for ALL of those other things...am I right?

1overcosc
Oct 27, 2017, 2:36 AM
Love all these new age developments with ZERO lot, garages that often don't hold full-sized vehicles, hog pens for back yards and unfinished basements...guess those granite countertops and stainless steel appliances make up for ALL of those other things...am I right?

In the 21st century people don't seem to care about yards anymore. Kids too busy playing on their phones inside, I guess.

Funny how these things change over time. In the 1970s and 1980s backyards were big. Back in the 1950s the front yard was the big one.

YOWetal
Oct 27, 2017, 7:11 AM
These lands would have been perfect for something along the lines of what's being done in Toronto's Port Lands with Alphabet's Sidewalk Labs. https://www.sidewalklabs.com/

Instead, we're going to get typical Claridge-like crap with floating docks...

A lot of people seem to hate on this development but this is not the Port Lands. This is very much a suburban location. Sure its close to downtown as the crow flies but you drive past a lot of wide open single family homes and fairly cheap land to get to the sight. I don't think the demand would be there for a high rise community. (NIMBY reaction aside) Also doesn't seem like the road or transit network is sufficient.

kwoldtimer
Oct 27, 2017, 1:16 PM
A lot of people seem to hate on this development but this is not the Port Lands. This is very much a suburban location. Sure its close to downtown as the crow flies but you drive past a lot of wide open single family homes and fairly cheap land to get to the sight. I don't think the demand would be there for a high rise community. (NIMBY reaction aside) Also doesn't seem like the road or transit network is sufficient.

Are transit plans in place for the development? I'm thinking that buses will run down both Montreal Rd and Hemlock/Beechwood?