[jeremy_haak]

That area of Ottawa is starting to/and will look very nice in the coming years. Lots of nice shiny enw buildings going up. Too bad they aren't taller. :(

I know a lot of people have this sentiment, and I must admit that I do too. The skyline in Ottawa looks awfully squat. On the other hand, height doesn't make a whole lot of difference at the street level. Beyond 10 stories or so, the building's interaction with the street stays much the same.

With that in mind, I wonder if it wouldn't be better just continuing with smaller office developments. The CBD will fill out more, getting rid of the few remaining surface lots downtown, and it will likely expand more as well, hopefully predominately as an axis down Bank St. and Rideau St. While I'm not all that keen on having a huge CBD, I am very keen on greater mixed-use areas, with a large residential population, as well as a daytime business population. If development is able to follow major axes, higher order transit along those routes would be that much more effective.

I guess I'm wondering what other people think about how effective a greater quantity of smaller scale office and residential developments spread further throughout the city than just downtown could go to improve the overall urban fabric and whether the potential benefits would outweigh the benefits of building higher. (What would you consider the benefits anyway, besides a certain level of prestige?)

[Jamaican-Phoenix]

I would at least like to see some variation in height and a defined and existant skyline.

[Cambridgite]

As nice as downtown Ottawa is on street level, it's certainly not a city where one goes to to gawk at the skyline. There's a lot of buildings in the 10-25 storey range, but you guys need at least a few signature buildings to define your skyline. Other than that, I'd rather see the expansion and infill of mixed-use districts.

[O-Town Hockey]

In order for the taller buildings to not look out of place I think we would need at least 4-5 no more than 45 storey buildings within the CBD. Otherwise, they will stand out like a sore thumb and do exactly what grumpy Ottawans have been saying for years about tall buildings; that they overpower and ruin existing sightlines.

[Kitchissippi]

Personally, I find that the concept of a "exciting skyline" has become a bit car-centric. In most people's view, it's the view of a city from afar, driving in. If there's nothing tall , it's "boring" because you cant see it from the highway.

if you look up the definition of skyline it's: "an outline of land and buildings defined against the sky." Height is not a major factor. If it's land AND buildings, Ottawa has it good. The escarpment adds at least 10 storeys to Place de Ville :)

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2211/1810214643_0b27fb55f4_b.jpg

[O-Town Hockey]

I agree with you that our skyline could be worse. Height is not the biggest issue, it is the lack of variety in height along the edges of our skyline. From the perimeter, it is impossible to tell that there is a huge variety in building heights in our CBD.

[harls]

I agree we could use a little more variety in height, but it's not that bad density-wise..

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/101/305797326_e2c7c32a4f_b.jpg (http://farm1.static.flickr.com/101/305797326_e2c7c32a4f_o.jpg)

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/82/224453561_1b26e3c403_b.jpg (http://farm1.static.flickr.com/82/224453561_1b26e3c403_o.jpg)

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1012/1321528918_d23d2aa44b_b.jpg

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1371/1321530732_a43e2371c5_b.jpg

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1370/1321528166_5cdf8cc2e2_b.jpg

[Jamaican-Phoenix]

Some of those shots remind me of Quebec City...



Anyway, yes, our skyline could be worse, but it could also be much better. Judging from where the last available infill spots in the downtown area are, we could easily build som 40-50 storey tall buildings and they wouldn't impact the skyline too drastically.

[O-Town Hockey]

Anyway, yes, our skyline could be worse, but it could also be much better. Judging from where the last available infill spots in the downtown area are, we could easily build som 40-50 storey tall buildings and they wouldn't impact the skyline too drastically.

I still stand by my opinion, 40 max! The 2-3 towers (to be realistic on numbers) would stand out too much otherwise.

[harls]

I wish the three 17-storey towers proposed by Brookfield would be reconsidered... the west end of downtown seems to be more relaxed when it comes to building height. 30 storeys would look mighty fine at Kent and Queen. 40, even better.

[Jamaican-Phoenix]

:previous: Yep, it seems that way. Same could be said for the Market. Pretty much anywhere that is a good distance from Parliament have slightly relaxed height-restrictions.

[O-Town Hockey]

An interesting article from the Ottawa Citizen. Let's start building up!
Link: http://communities.canada.com/ottawacitizen/blogs/greaterottawa/archive/2007/07/04/great-skylines-and-ottawa-s.aspx

Great skylines, and Ottawa's
Just ran across this page offering a list of the world's 30 greatest skylines (it's over a year old, but barring major disasters, these things don't change much). It's purely subjective but backed up by some unusually lovely photos and some thoughtful explanations. In Toronto-based Luigi Di Serio's opinion, Hong Kong has the best skyline in the world, Chicago is No. 2.

Toronto, with the CN Tower and the Rogers Centre, comes in at No. 7:

Toronto is a meeting place, a crossroads of many cultures and ethnicities. Toronto is downtown Canada, the biggest city in the country with a skyline to match. Toronto has 7 structures in its skyline that stand at over 200 metres, including the astonishingly tall 553 metre, CN Tower, which is often referred to as the tallest free-standing structure in the world. While mostly untrue (because there are taller TV masts in the world), the CN Tower possess the world's highest observation deck, making this city's skyline one of the most immediately identifiable.

Pittsburgh is No. 16. Pittsburgh? I thought. But have a look at the photo. Under the right conditions, Pittsburgh is a pretty good-lookin' town. Montreal sneaks in at No. 30.

Prospects for making Ottawa's skyline distinctive have been hampered a bit by the old rule that nothing was allowed to be taller than the Peace Tower — at least nothing nearby, which meant nothing downtown where somebody might actually want to build something that high. The rule stopped being closely enforced at some point, but the result has been that the most distinctive building in town, Parliament, is walled in by a bunch of towers just slightly taller than it is.

There's also a lack of great vantage points for a city built in a wide valley. Nevertheless, as these photos show, Ottawa can look pretty good, too. Here's one by Citizen photographer Julie Oliver:



and one (taken from a hot-air balloon) by Mike Carroccetto:



and a third, this one a panorama, by Ashley Fraser:



There are also some lovely shots on Flickr, and doubtless readers can point to more.


But this wasn't meant to be a post about photos, it was supposed to be about architecture. Ottawa's not as big as the cities that make Di Serio's top-30 list (even Pittsburgh's metro population is about 2.4 million), and it's not as rich, with fewer big companies or rich individuals looking to make statements about public art with their architecture. But great buildings don't need to be private. There's Parliament itself, of course, and the National Gallery, and the Royal Ontario Museum in Toronto just opened its Michael Lee-Chin Crystal expansion, which, whatever you think of it (I'm not a fan), certainly makes a statement.


Why don't we have distinctive buildings like these built here anymore?

[TheMeltyMan]

Personally, I find that the concept of a "exciting skyline" has become a bit car-centric. In most people's view, it's the view of a city from afar, driving in. If there's nothing tall , it's "boring" because you cant see it from the highway.

I agree, that most of the "exciting" skyline moments happen from a vehicle around the perimeter, but modesty doesn't exactly help a city. Get rid of all pretension and we'd be living in tunnels under a forest.

Ottawa has a high tolerance for a modest skyline and seems to be strangely conservative about the whole thing. I could definately see room for a push in height down Bank street towards the Queensway(?) and for a few 180-200 meter buildings.

I think that urbanity should be as urbane as possible.

[Jamaican-Phoenix]

I propose 5-8 40+ storey towers throughout the CBD and the Market/Rideau area in select spots and 30 storey towers everywhere else where it will work.

[AylmerOptimist]

woah! take it slow!
we should begin by puting up some 35-40 story buildings and then progress to 45-50 and then 55-60!

It'll take a decade or so but we are not Dubai!!! (not yet)

[Jamaican-Phoenix]

:previous: Did you not just see how I said only 5-8 40+ towers in only certain areas and to lift general height-restrictions to 30 storeys?

That is slow! :rolleyes: :P

[AylmerOptimist]

it would be my preference that we go up with 45storys tomorrow but honestly, the city council will kill anything to unusual.

C'est la vie...
C'est la ville...
C'est Moi!

[the capital urbanite]

Ottawa condo supply tightens, other cities driven by speculators

Garry Marr and Bert Hill
CanWest News Service

Wednesday, November 14, 2007

Speculation is now the key driving force behind the condominium market, according to a survey Re/Max released on Wednesday.

The real estate company estimates that 50% of all sales activity in downtown Vancouver can be linked to investors while the figure in downtown Toronto is approximately 60% to 85%.

"The impact of speculation, especially in Canada's largest condominium markets, has yet to be determined but concerns for the future are relevant," said Elton Ash, regional executive vice-president of Re/Max of Western Canada. "This is a major factor that could influence prices in the years to come."

In Ottawa, however, the report said that demand for condominium apartments and townhouses has chopped the supply by 20 per cent to 642 units today compared to a year ago.

Developers in Ottawa are rapidly adding new projects with particular interest in high-end projects. More than three per cent of condos sold so far this year were priced above $500,000. A total of 2,527 condominiums were sold in the first nine months of the year, up 11 per cent from a year earlier. The average price rose six per cent to $197,206.

While Ottawa has caught the condo bug, it is not the raging condition in many other more expensive markets where high prices of single-family units are out the reach of most first-time buyers. In the first nine months of the year the number of condos sales in Calgary reached 7,350 and in Edmonton 6,133 - up to three times the number of sales in Ottawa in cities with about the same population. In Toronto, condo sales were 10 times more and in Vancouver sales were eight times more than Ottawa.

Re/Max said 12 of the 15 markets it surveyed across Canada had condominium sales up 10% over the first nine months of the year compared to a year earlier. It found eight markets had sales growth of more than 20%

Kitchener-Waterloo was the hottest market in the country with a 59% jump in sales followed by Regina at 57%. The real estate company says the rising price of low-rise home was behind the trend.

"Deteriorating affordability levels in major Canadian centres have led to the resurrection of the condominium lifestyle in recent years," said Michael Polzler, executive vice-president of Re/Max Ontario-Atlantic Canada. "Condominiums are clearly the answer to the skyrocketing cost of land and shelter that has all but eradicated the dream of home ownership for many first-time buyers."

Vancouver is rated as the strongest condo market in the country with 60% of all sales in the city falling into that category.

Prices are also rising across the country for condominiums. Re/Max says five of the 15 markets surveyed had double digit price increases for condominiums over the last year.

New benchmarks for prices were set across the country for high-rise apartments. In Vancouver, a home sold through the MLS system for $18-million last year. Calgary also set a new record with a condo there selling for $3.7-million Winnipeg had a condo unit sell for $1.25-million.

[Mille Sabords]

60-85% investors in downtown Toronto? Stand back, folks, that one's gonna hurt! And 50%+ in Vancouver?

All I can say is, I'll take a moderately-paced market over an overheating one any day.

At least, Vancouver has the Olympics in a couple of years to sustain the frenzy, and Alberta has both the oil and gas going strong plus their two big cities are deprived of apartments compared to the eastern Big Three (Tor, Ott, Mtl) so they are catching up by building the appropriate supply of apartments for cities their size.

Toronto worries me. The impact of the high Canadian dollar is just starting to be felt (Brampton lost x thousand jobs in the auto sector just last month, etc.) and the entire GTA is still a manufacturing-heavy economy.

Ottawa on the other hand has languished behind other cities the last 4-5 years in terms of the housing market. We used to be the third most expensive real estate market, we've dropped down to 5th if we just take the Big Six. Since we've already lost much of our high-tech manufacturing during the 2001 bleedfest, we are better insulated against the vagaries of the Canadian dollar. And I'd be curious to know what % of speculators are gambling on our condo market...

[ikerrin]

I wish the three 17-storey towers proposed by Brookfield would be reconsidered... the west end of downtown seems to be more relaxed when it comes to building height. 30 storeys would look mighty fine at Kent and Queen. 40, even better.

When is Brookefield scheduled to build, or are they still waiting for tennants?

[Canadian Mind]

build up you guys, I quite like to see how the parliament buildings, that crazy round thing, and the castle-like thing are all walled in by steadily walled in by more modern buildings... as long as it is set up so that the sun can always shine on parliament, i have no qualms with walling the place in... Make the history of the city that much more visual and impacting.

[cityguy]

I don't think Ottawa will get a building over 35 storeys.The majority of office space in this city is rented by the goverment,and a tall shiney tower is looked at by the public as too extravagant.I remember a friend who worked for the Public Works dept.telling me that millions were spent on a property bought from Nortel to "tone it down".

[AylmerOptimist]

Cheer up!
the day is coming and I can taste it!
think of the desification taking place! 25-27 floor buildings are plopping up!
we could realy have an impressive skyline with a building of only 45 stories and a couple of 35s to blend it in.

just wait!!!!

[cityguy]

^I can't wait,I'll be dead by the year 3000.

[AylmerOptimist]

The population for Ottawa-Gatineau is supposed to reach 1,4million by 2012,
1,5 by 2016, 1,6million for 2021, 1,7million for 2026 and 1,9 million by 2031!

even 2012 might bring some major construction!

[Jamaican-Phoenix]

^I can't wait,I'll be dead by the year 3000.

:lmao:

[Jamaican-Phoenix]

The population for Ottawa-Gatineau is supposed to reach 1,4million by 2012,
1,5 by 2016, 1,6million for 2021, 1,7million for 2026 and 1,9 million by 2031!

even 2012 might bring some major construction!

Gotta disagree with ya there, dude.

Even with the projected population increases, Ottawa would have to become Chicago, T.O. or New York overnight in order to get some serious construction. It will never happen within our lifetimes and certainly not until the height restrictions are lifted, which certainly won't be happening any time soon...

[AylmerOptimist]

:haha: :yes: :jester: :D :cheers: :P Sorry...
I am a radical optimist:D :) ;) :cool:

[Jamaican-Phoenix]

:haha: :yes: :jester: :D :cheers: :P Sorry...
I am a radical optimist:D :) ;) :cool:

Hey, no worries. :cheers:

I find it very admirable that someone your/my age is so interested, optimistic and passionate about matters in the Outaouais. You just need to be a little more realistic. ;) :haha: :jester: :cheers: :notacrook:

[AylmerOptimist]

I feel young and appreceated!
but there are some albertan posters who really pis* me off.
nmmmnasdf
sorry, my cat likes to type...

anyway, High-Tech is a stable industry. and we could have a boom at any given time!

Mabe next week, a boom will spark the construction of 55 story buildings!

[jeremy_haak]

I feel young and appreceated!
but there are some albertan posters who really pis* me off.
nmmmnasdf
sorry, my cat likes to type...

anyway, High-Tech is a stable industry. and we could have a boom at any given time!

Mabe next week, a boom will spark the construction of 55 story buildings!

Generally we don't plan with the assumption of booming, but I suppose it's okay to be optimistic.

Honestly, how did you expect people to react with a post like this one?

Question;
dose it bother the slightest of people to know that the calgarian urban footprint is only slightly smaller than NewYork and it's boroughs?
Calgary may have the boom but not the population zoom!

That's pretty much the definition of flame bait right there. Take a moment to think about what you're posting and whether it makes any sense or not.

This is way off topic though. Oops!

[AylmerOptimist]

I wanted to either get more information from them, get their opinion or start a casual conversation...