The future of Hamilton's public transit [Archive] - Page 15

SteelTown

Oct 27, 2009, 11:05 AM

Fare hike next stop for city transit

October 27, 2009
Emma Reilly
The Hamilton Spectator
http://www.thespec.com/News/Local/article/660978

The HSR wants to hike bus fares for the third time in as many years to make up for lower ridership and increased costs.

The city's transit system is facing a $1.6-million loss this year and a predicted $3.4-million shortfall next year.

Council will be presented with two options to help recoup costs at a special meeting on Thursday: a 10-cent increase, which would bump monthly passes to $84, or a 20-cent increase, which would hike passes to $88.

Pre-paid tickets would go up to $1.95 or $2.05 from $1.85, while fares paid on the bus would grow to $2.50 or $2.60 from $2.40.

If approved, the hike would go into effect Jan. 1, 2010.

Don Hull, the city's director of transit, said a 10-cent hike would get the city "back on track" after this year's losses.

However, his department will face a predicted $2.1-million increase in expenditures and a $1.3-million loss in revenue in 2010.

"We've never been here before," Hull said. "The impact of the recession on this city has been very, very severe."

Council is also considering other options to cut costs and boost revenue, including extending advertising into the Disabled and Aged Regional Transit System (DARTS) fleet and purchasing diesel buses instead of more costly hybrid buses.

Peter Hutton of the Hamilton Transit Users Group said the working poor will be the hardest hit by any fare hike.

"Those who absolutely need to use public transit 10 to 15 times a week are going to be paying this price on ticket and cash fare," he said.

The debate over transit fares is a familiar one in Hamilton. In January 2008, HSR riders were hit with a 15-cent hike. That was only a few months after fares were raised to $2.25 from $2.10 in June 2007.

Last November, council rejected a 10-cent fare increase after a tie vote maintained the status quo.

Councillor Tom Jackson, who voted in favour of the hike last year, said 10 cents is a reasonable increase, but he would be "leery" of raising fares by 20 cents.

"I think a dime is more than reasonable," he said.

But Councillor Sam Merulla, who has advocated for free transit, said any fare hike is misguided.

"There is a direct correlation between increased transit fares and decreased ridership," he said. "You're just contributing to your own net revenue going down."

Hutton said he's "extremely disappointed" that council is considering another hike.

"It's not in line with the city's strategic goals. It's in line with its fiscal goals," he said.

Single-ride adult transit fares: How Hamilton measures up

Brantford: $2.25

Hamilton: $2.40

Guelph: $2.50

London: $2.75

Toronto: $2.75

Mississauga: $3.00

Hamilton's bus fees

2003 - May 2007

Fare: $2.10

Ticket: $1.70

Monthly pass: $65

June 2007 - December 2007

Fare: $2.25

Ticket: $1.75

Monthly pass: $71

Jan 2008 - present

Fare: $2.40

Ticket: $1.85

Monthly fares: $79

Proposed hike for 2010:

Fare: $2.50 or $2.60

Ticket: $1.95 or $2.05

Monthly pass: $84 or $88

drpgq

Oct 27, 2009, 6:41 PM

Wow, Mississauga is $3. Is that part of some evil plan by McCallion to keep ridership and thus expenses down?

coalminecanary

Oct 29, 2009, 12:52 AM

Unfortunately cost savings really don't matter if the service isn't good enough to be any more convenient than driving.

Service improvements are definitely needed. But I am certain that making the bus $2 across the board for everybody would increase ridership and revenue.

Tickets are a disincentive to take the bus. If you have tickets in your pocket, great, but if you don't, you get screwed with the cash fare.

If it was a toonie for everyone, you'd see people getting on because they don't want to walk or ride a bike in the rain. You'd see more impulse riding. And you'd simplify the entire operation.

Once the smaller benefits are being reaped, it's a launching pad for improved service and all of the other good things that will come once the city realizes that the HSR is a necessary service for more people than they thought...

I have a car, but I do almost everything by bike whenever possible. I am a huge transit supporter - but I never take transit. It's too expensive when biking is free. But there have been many times when it gets super windy or otherwise crappy out that I'd take the bus if I had a ticket. My common sense just won't allow me to overpay and drop the full cash fare in. Not to mention having correct change is a pain.

Make it a toonie for 6 months and see what happens. If it fails, go back to the original fares.

I ask again - who benefits from the ticket system?

SteelTown

Oct 30, 2009, 12:44 PM

Council lets bus fares ride
Can't agree on amount of increase; final decision next month

October 30, 2009
Emma Reilly
The Hamilton Spectator
http://www.thespec.com/News/Local/article/663379

Hamiltonians won't face a bus fare hike next year -- at least for the time being.

Council rejected both a 10-cent fare increase and a 20-cent increase at a special budget transit meeting yesterday.

However, most councillors supported a hike, though their votes were split between a 10-cent or 20-cent increase.

Three councillors -- Brad Clark, Margaret McCarthy, and Lloyd Ferguson -- were also absent from yesterday's vote, which could swing the final decision at the Nov. 11 council meeting.

"I think there will ultimately be some sort of increase," said Mayor Fred Eisenberger after the motions was defeated yesterday. "We'll sort it out. To do anything but would mean we have to add this to the general tax budget."

The HSR is facing a $1.6-million loss this year and a predicted $3.4-million shortfall next year. A fare increase could bring in as much as $1.9 million.

"Today we have created an even worse financial state," said Councillor Tom Jackson, who voted in favour of a 10-cent increase but rejected a 20-cent increase.

Yesterday's meeting continued a long-running debate that includes issues of poverty, the environment and fiscal responsibility. Council heard from several community members, all of whom advocated keeping transit fees at $2.40.

Rose DiGiovani and Jessica Dyment, who teach at-risk students at St. Thomas More High School, said raising transit prices would hurt kids who are already struggling to bus to school each day.

"When we investigated the sporadic attendance of two siblings, we discovered that their single mother could only afford one bus pass," Dyment told council members.

"The two students were taking turns coming to school on alternate days."

Tom Cooper, the interim director of the Hamilton Roundtable for Poverty Reduction, said the majority of low-income residents rely on bus tickets and urged council to freeze those prices.

Council is considering instituting a policy that would automatically calculate future fare increases. That formula could prevent the transit debate from resurfacing during each budget season, Eisenberger said.

"It's not an issue that has to come to the table each and every year."

HOW THEY VOTED:

10-cent increase

For: Chad Collins, Scott Duvall, Tom Jackson, David Mitchell, Terry Whitehead

Against: Bob Bratina, Fred Eisenberger, Brian McHattie, Sam Merulla, Bernie Morelli, Robert Pasuta, Maria Pearson, Russ Powers

20-cent increase:

For: Fred Eisenberger, David Mitchell, Robert Pasuta, Maria Pearson, Russ Powers

Against: Bob Bratina, Chad Collins, Scott Duvall, Tom Jackson, Brian McHattie, Sam Merulla, Bernie Morelli, Terry Whitehead

Absent: Brad Clark, Lloyd Ferguson, Margaret McCarthy

SteelTown

Oct 30, 2009, 12:46 PM

Can't believe Eisenberger voted no to 10 cent hike but yes to 20 cent hike.

omro

Oct 30, 2009, 12:47 PM

Service improvements are definitely needed. But I am certain that making the bus $2 across the board for everybody would increase ridership and revenue.

Tickets are a disincentive to take the bus. If you have tickets in your pocket, great, but if you don't, you get screwed with the cash fare.

If it was a toonie for everyone, you'd see people getting on because they don't want to walk or ride a bike in the rain. You'd see more impulse riding. And you'd simplify the entire operation.

Once the smaller benefits are being reaped, it's a launching pad for improved service and all of the other good things that will come once the city realizes that the HSR is a necessary service for more people than they thought...

I have a car, but I do almost everything by bike whenever possible. I am a huge transit supporter - but I never take transit. It's too expensive when biking is free. But there have been many times when it gets super windy or otherwise crappy out that I'd take the bus if I had a ticket. My common sense just won't allow me to overpay and drop the full cash fare in. Not to mention having correct change is a pain.

Make it a toonie for 6 months and see what happens. If it fails, go back to the original fares.

I ask again - who benefits from the ticket system?

I agree totally with this. More than once, thanks to lacking exact change, I've not taken the bus when I would have preferred to.

In answer to the final question: shop keepers who hike the price of the tickets up. Only shops in the downtown near the HSR station charge the $1.85 per ticket. Everywhere else they are already $1.95 or $2. That too has been a disincentive, as I've refused to pay inflated prices for tickets and thus not taken the bus.

emge

Oct 30, 2009, 1:35 PM

"When we investigated the sporadic attendance of two siblings, we discovered that their single mother could only afford one bus pass," Dyment told council members.

"The two students were taking turns coming to school on alternate days."

Forgive my ignorance, but don't schools provide high school kids with bus tickets?

In St. Catharines I think teenagers still get 7 out of 10 weekly tickets paid for as long as they live a certain distance from the school. Does that not happen here? I really should know this by now, but most of the teens I know here walk to school in the city or get a school bus out in the boonies.

SteelTown

Oct 30, 2009, 1:38 PM

You'll get bus tickets if you are required to go to a certain School. The only issue is having to go to the GO Station once a week to get the tickets yourself, the Schools no longer give out the tickets, it's up to the student or parent to get the ticket at the GO Station.

realcity

Oct 30, 2009, 3:34 PM

Mayor Fred voted for a 20cent increase???

"The best city to raise a family *in poverty*" Mayor Fred?

Hamilton is the poorest city in the country and that they can even consider a rate increase shows how much they are aware of our high poverty rate.

SteelTown

Oct 30, 2009, 5:55 PM

If it was up to taxpayers to pay for the increase how much would it be extra a year to cover the $1.9 million shortfall? A dollar more?

matt602

Oct 30, 2009, 6:45 PM

Forgive my ignorance, but don't schools provide high school kids with bus tickets?

In St. Catharines I think teenagers still get 7 out of 10 weekly tickets paid for as long as they live a certain distance from the school. Does that not happen here? I really should know this by now, but most of the teens I know here walk to school in the city or get a school bus out in the boonies.

When I went to high school (2001-2004ish) you were only given bus tickets if you were out of catchment and transferring to a school within your area was impossible, for whatever reason. Giving out bus tickets was kind of a last resort thing for them. You didn't just get them because you were lazy or had a silly reason to go to a school far from home.

I'm hoping the reason Fred supported the fare increase was to offset service cuts. Any other reason is incredibly inexcusable.

Blurr

Oct 30, 2009, 6:54 PM

How about the HSR unions?

When are they going to step up to the plate and do something good for someone but themselves? Their only solution is more funding.

I don't know if anyone else feels this way. Admittedly, I have only rode the bus a handful of times, but during two rides, I have been parked at a coffee shop while the driver was relieving himself.

That alone makes it hard for me to support such a poorly managed organization.

I just prefer riding my bike or even walking!

SteelTown

Nov 11, 2009, 2:18 AM

Summary of the Hamilton Street Railway Operational Review Presentation......

http://www.myhamilton.ca/NR/rdonlyres/27902AA0-4854-4F93-B633-72D83CA9F615/0/Oct29Item64TransitDay2010OperationalReviewPresentation27Oct09PrintVersion.pdf

•Achieving 100 transit rides per capita would require a doubling of service hours and associated funding increases

•HSR should be adding 10-15 buses per year to meet this target by 2021

•Concentrating future population and employment in existing transit corridors and other transit supportive policies can reduce the need for service expansion in meeting target

•Ridership is highly influenced by service levels

•Increasing ridership requires greater investment in transit through increase service levels

•Winnipeg, London, Kitchener-Waterloo, and Halifax have all increased their per capita expenditures resulting in higher ridership levels

•Hamilton’s farebox revenue per ride is lower than many of its pears, particularly within the GTHA

•50% of HSR’s ridership comes from the top five routes, which are primarily lower east-west services

The top 10 routes are:
Delaware
King
Barton
University
Mohawk
Upper Wellington
Bayfront
B-Line Express
College
Upper Gage

•Most routes are performing well in terms of cost recovery.

•Top 15 routes account for 75% of HSR’s gross operating costs, but at a lower per-passenger subsidy

•Eliminating the worst 5 performing routes would only save 1.3% of HSR’s gross operating costs

Top 5 worst performing routes are:

Waterdown
Dundas Local - 52
Wentworth
Rymal
Ancaster

•Use of personal mobility devices, use of bike racks and increased road construction appear to have affected travel times, increased pressure on operators to remain on schedule

•Transit priority measures and display terminals for drivers will help

•Recent improvements to B-Line and other routes has helped address capacity issue

CONCLUSIONS AND RECOMMENDATIONS

•HSR average fare is low compared to peer group

•HSR offers a number of discount fares for specialized groups resulting in a lower than average fare per passenger
–44% of all passengers have a discounted fare other than an adult monthly pass
–Policies such as free boardings for persons with personal mobility devices are potentially subject to abuse

•Increasing averagefares by 5 cents (3.7%) (through a fare increase or by reducing fare leakage/discounts) translates into approximately $750,000 in annual revenue

•Ideally, discounts for social programsshould be treated as such and not funded entirely from HSR budget

•Match service levels to passenger demand across different time periods

•Split routes away from core to permit service reductions in areas of lower demand

•Add express routes on James St and Crosstown corridors

•Restructure services to align with travel patterns

•Consider alternative methods of delivering transit service to an area

•Shifting resources from evening services to base and peak services where resources are required

SteelTown

Nov 11, 2009, 2:30 AM

Potential route changes being recommended....

1A - All service extended to McMaster University
51 - Route extension to Meadowlands
33 - Route extension to Meadowlands
34 - Route extension to Meadowlands
34 - Service discontinued south of Stone Church
35 - Service discountinued on Chesley, Chester
41 - Service discontinued to Chedoke Hospital
17 - New route with direct service from Ancaster neighbourhoods
18 - New Bi-Directional Service
44 - Route extension to Meadowlands
44 - Expanded service hours Base and Evening service
27 - Service discontinued south of Rymal Road
44 - Service discontinued east of Upper Wellington
20 - Expanded service hours New Base Service
22 - Service discontinued
21 - New branch service on Upper Ottawa
4 - New service on Parkdale Ave. on Mt. Albion Road
5 - Service between Downtown and Eastgate only
43 - Service extension to Eastgate Mall
1 - Sunday service to Fiesta Mall discontinued
2 - Service extension to Eastgate Mall
11 - Service removed south of Barton, extension to Eastgate
11 - Service discontinued after 8pm
3 - Service discontinued
Route 6, 7, 8 and 12 replaced Neighbourhood Flex Service

emge

Nov 11, 2009, 3:14 AM

from the report:

"Change image of transit from “social service” to “transportation service”; Shift “social” costs of reduced fares to “social services department”"They also put it nicely as

–44% of all passengers have a discounted fare other than an adult monthly pass
–Policies such as free boardings for persons with personal mobility devices are potentially subject to abuse
How hard would this be? Sure, the money would be coming from a different source, but when one sees a store advertising "buy a 4-pronged cane and ride the HSR for free!" there's got to be a better way to do things.

matt602

Nov 11, 2009, 3:44 AM

I agree with a lot of the report but some of the route suggestions are pretty weird, especially discontinuing Parkdale service after 8pm and completely axing the 3 Cannon route. There also seemed to be too many extensions to Eastgate Sq. in that. A fair bit un-necessary I think.

SteelTown

Nov 11, 2009, 4:09 AM

I don't see any problems with any of the suggested route changes.

I totally agree with University to Meadowlands. Should have more routes to Eastgate especially to link with future LRT B-Line endpoint. I agree with ending Mohawk to Chedoke Hospital, should have happened a long time ago. I also agree there shouldn't be two routes for College, just have it all turn at Limeridge.

hamiltonguy

Nov 11, 2009, 4:28 AM

Oh Boy Gotta Go Line by Line on this:

1A - All service extended to McMaster University
51 - Route extension to Meadowlands

These changes are really interim solutions. (but good ones!) There will need to be a Main west/ Westdale local service (Some new form of the 51) and a split of the 5 branches and the 52 to feed into the LRT when it is done. I would recommend the 51 continue south on Longwood rather than turn on Main, then loop back to Main via Aberdeen and Dundurn and then follow the current route to the GO station. Also ideally the new Ancaster-Mac route would have high enough week round frequency that the 51 could return to a West Hamilton Loop terminus.

33 - Route extension to Meadowlands
34 - Route extension to Meadowlands

Logical

34 - Service discontinued south of Stone Church
35 - Service discountinued on Chesley, Chester
41 - Service discontinued to Chedoke Hospital

The 34 is puzzling but not surprising (with the meadowlands extension to the route). The 35 is logical and the 41 hopefully should mean better service to the meadowlands rather than a reduction of service.

17 - New route with direct service from Ancaster neighbourhoods
18 - New Bi-Directional Service

What's the difference with what exists now?

44 - Route extension to Meadowlands
44 - Expanded service hours Base and Evening service
27 - Service discontinued south of Rymal Road
44 - Service discontinued east of Upper Wellington

Here's where they started to jump the shark.

While i'm ambivalent about the 27 discontinuation, the 44 seems contradictory.

Let's expand West to a worthwhile destination (something this route lacks).
Let's improve the frequency and hours so it's usable.
Let's amputate about half of the current route at an arbitrary street instead of continuing on to some place logical, like maybe the mall?

See what I mean? One of the statements doesn't fit.

20 - Expanded service hours New Base Service

Can't object. HSR marketing needs to do a better job promoting this though.

22 - Service discontinued
21 - New branch service on Upper Ottawa

Current 22 route to Jolley Cut is a crap shoot and unimportant. Will make sense with the LRT on the Mountain (ie. will leave only the 23/24 serving Concession/ John Street and having to make a direct to downtown connection)

Hopefully the frequency on the West 5th to Upper Ottawa portion improves and the service on the extremities (Ottawa and Kenilworth) remains the same as today. (Basically I'm saying hopefully this means they're combining the 22 and 21 on the 21 routing North of Fennel, and not merely eliminating the 22 and branching every other current 21 south along Ottawa)

4 - New service on Parkdale Ave. on Mt. Albion Road
5 - Service between Downtown and Eastgate only

This is annoying. Which buses are going to serve the branches. Besides which the central part of this route (Mac to Downtown) can not be eliminated until 1) The LRT is in place 2) The Dundas/Ancaster routes are restructured (according to this plan if taking word for word the Dundas branches are completely cut)

43 - Service extension to Eastgate Mall
1 - Sunday service to Fiesta Mall discontinued
2 - Service extension to Eastgate Mall
11 - Service removed south of Barton, extension to Eastgate
11 - Service discontinued after 8pm

Cut service and consolidate around Eastgate. Would be great but for the CUT SERVICE!

3 - Service discontinued
Route 6, 7, 8 and 12 replaced Neighbourhood Flex Service

Yeah lets cut the service to people who actually pay tansit tax.

Route 3 will be needed once LRT is in place and King lacks a local service between the Delta and Downtown.

6 and 7 could be rationalized into one route.

12 could use mini buses (might as well get them for the 18 and the 17 as well (and the 16 if they stop interlining it with the 43)).

The 8 could be dealt with through a deal with Burlington Transit whose route 1 duplicates the 8.

All in all. It does as much harm is good.

They really need to plan for the LRT era, and you know not eliminate all Dundas service....

go_leafs_go02

Nov 11, 2009, 4:51 AM

I should also mention that Mohawk College - Fennell Campus will be having a referendum sometime in the Winter 2010 semester to include a mandatory bus pass like which MacMaster has.

A petition was collected with well over 1500 signatures by full-time students (approx 20% of all students) and there's significant interest.

If this referendum passes, service on the mountain will definitely increase as well as ridership and Mohawk College will instantly become a major hub and minor/major transfer point for the mountain.

SteelTown

Nov 11, 2009, 4:54 AM

go_leafs_go02

Nov 11, 2009, 5:17 AM

Good luck on the referendum, during my time as a student we had two referendums and both time it failed. Hopefully with MacIsaac that will change.

You'd get more people bitching about a dollar increase on the parking rate than people bitching they don't have an HSR student pass.

We're seeking things to change. First of all Mohawk's referendum requires only a 50% +1 approval vote instead of the 2/3 majority vote last year. so that's on our side.

Also, Mohawk students can be quite apathetic. We had a gym referendum last year, that only gathered 800 and some odd votes. The fact over 1500 signed a petition for a bus pass saying they would be interested in it..definitely does say there's interest.

The goal is to prove the major savings you could have by a bus pass when compared to the price of parking. Right now Mac pays less than 1/2 the price for 8 months of a bus pass than 4 months of Mohawk Parking (108.20 for Mac students to $225.00 for semester parking pass)

mishap

Nov 11, 2009, 6:36 AM

I don't think they'll discontinue route 44. This data is from the old (2008) Rymal routing, not the 2009 version. East mountain ridership is probably better than west mountain ridership now, especially with service to Eastgate Square. If this study were carried out again in the new year, we'd probably see Rymal moved out of the bottom five. And isn't the extended route funded by the gas tax?

SteelTown

Nov 11, 2009, 3:02 PM

I think it would be better to have 44 - Rymal end at Limeridge Mall and go to Meadowlands. This way HSR would finally serve all those McMansions at the Meadowlands and would increase more revenue for HSR from more area rating from Ancaster.

mishap

Nov 11, 2009, 3:36 PM

But if 44 ends at Lime Ridge, how do you serve the customers on Rymal East? Or the McMansions springing up along Garner Road? Riders are starting to pop up around Upper Gage and Upper Ottawa, along with those living in the new homes along the Glanbrook/ Stoney Creek line. I never saw a replacement service recommended. And how many buses do you need running between Meadowlands and Lime Ridge Mall?

The West Meadowlands could be better served by a route 33 extension past the Meadowlands to Redeemer College. The East Meadowlands could have the same thing with route 16 or 17 coming from the opposite direction.

Another thing about this study: if the east end recommendations were to go through, you'd practically have to double the Eastgate terminal.

SteelTown

Nov 11, 2009, 3:56 PM

The Meadowlands is pretty much all built up now and so they deserve to have HSR service whereas the Summit Park area is still under construction. Down the road when the density increases than expand down to Upper Centential for 44 - Rymal.

The problem with 44 - Rymal is that they made the route way too long, start small and build up your passengers and expand, this is what they do in other cities especially Mississauga.

For 27 - Upper James HSR should build a loop behind the Egg and I, near the hydro lines.

SteelTown

Nov 11, 2009, 4:02 PM

The recommendation to have 43, 2, and 11 terminate at Eastgate can obviously wait until the LRT is up and running, at the same time expand the Eastgate terminal.

realcity

Nov 11, 2009, 4:41 PM

I can't wait until gas costs $5/L

drpgq

Nov 11, 2009, 6:37 PM

What's up with eliminating the Upper Ottawa route? That's the one bus I take and it always seems at least semi busy. I'm writing to council.

Barton really needs an express on it. Took it a month ago and it was one of the slowest bus rides I've ever taken.

drpgq

Nov 11, 2009, 6:43 PM

–Policies such as free boardings for persons with personal mobility devices are potentially subject to abuse

I'm confused. Does this mean people who have a scooter ride for free? If so, that's ridiculous and needs to end.

matt602

Nov 11, 2009, 11:09 PM

I'm confused. Does this mean people who have a scooter ride for free? If so, that's ridiculous and needs to end.

They do and it does.

SteelTown

Nov 12, 2009, 12:09 PM

City to hike bus fares, starting Jan. 1
Basic fare jumps 15 cents to $2.55, but yearly seniors' passes won't take a hit

November 12, 2009
Emma Reilly
The Hamilton Spectator
http://www.thespec.com/News/Local/article/671134

Hamiltonians will pay 15 cents more for bus fares beginning Jan. 1.

An increase that will see fares climb from $2.40 to $2.55 passed with a narrow 9-7 vote at last night's city council meeting. Tickets will also go up 15 cents to $2 and monthly passes will climb to $86 from $79.

Yearly seniors' passes will remain the same price.

The hike is expected to bump revenue by $1.5 million, an amount that will offset the HSR's estimated $1.6-million loss this year and a predicted $3.4-million shortfall next year.

Council initially rejected both a 10-cent fare increase and a 20-cent increase at a special budget transit meeting in late October. Though most councillors supported a hike, their votes were split between a 10-cent or 20-cent increase.

The 15-cent hike was a "compromise," said Mayor Fred Eisenberger.

"In a perfect world, I would have liked to see 20 cents," he said. "Twenty cents is what's necessary, and 15 cents is a reasonable compromise."

The vote re-opened a long-running debate that "breeds an environment that's really conducive to hostility," said Councillor Sam Merulla. Councillor Brian McHattie, who voted against the increase, called it "an extremely unfortunate and wrongheaded move" and warned it will decrease ridership.

Councillors Terry Whitehead and Chad Collins both said they supported a 10-cent increase, but voted against the 15-cent hike.

"I can't support the 15 cents. I think it does go too far," Collins said.

"From my perspective, I think it's reasonable to expect an increase, and 10 cents for me works."

Still, the goal of keeping next year's property tax hike to two per cent or less ultimately convinced most council members to vote in favour of the increase.

"If we don't get it from the fare box, we certainly have to dip into the tax base," Eisenberger said. "The two per cent target is going to be a difficult one to achieve, and it will be even more difficult without this increase."

The hike comes into effect exactly two years after the last increase from $2.25 to $2.40.

Council also requested a report on automatically calculating future fare increases in time for next year's budget.

That formula could prevent the transit debate from resurfacing each year, Eisenberger said.

HOW THEY VOTED:

Yes: Brad Clark, Fred Eisenberger, Lloyd Ferguson, Tom Jackson, Margaret McCarthy, Dave Mitchell, Robert Pasuta, Maria Pearson, Russ Powers

No: Bob Bratina, Chad Collins, Scott Duvall, Brian McHattie, Sam Merulla, Bernie Morelli, Terry Whitehead

SteelTown

Nov 13, 2009, 3:49 PM

http://www.myhamilton.ca/NR/rdonlyres/99ED8809-6F7E-41EB-A42B-459C781DA599/0/EastgateSquareTransit.jpg

SteelTown

Nov 16, 2009, 9:16 PM

All Stop Announcements Now Being Tested By HSR
Ken Mann
11/16/2009

The city has started testing a new automated stop announcement system on its busses.

The result is that voice and visual announcement of all stops on all HSR routes, will be in place by the end of the year.

The system was purchased by the city at a cost of three million dollars, and is required to comply with a ruling by the Ontario Human Rights Commission

The DARTS fleet is also getting a major upgrade this fall, with the replacement of 20 of its specialized busses. Ten of them have been delivered, while the others are due to arrive in the coming weeks.

matt602

Nov 16, 2009, 9:59 PM

Have only seen the signs in action on one bus so far, and it was just displaying the (incorrect) date. Rumour was that 6,7, 8 routes were supposed to be the test routes before the rest of the system gets it. The whole project is way behind schedule though as it was originally supposed to be up and running back in September.

go_leafs_go02

Dec 1, 2009, 9:00 PM

What's with Hamilton using the most odd cash fares around? $2.55? $2.40?

Why not just $2.50? I supposed the $2.50 even when the fare was raised from $2.25 to $2.40. toonie, 2 quarters, and a nickel? Come on. Round to the nearest Quarter.

LikeHamilton

Feb 2, 2010, 9:58 PM

Independent transit authority urged for Hamilton

TheSpec.com By Meredith MacLeod

Hamilton’s largest business group wants to see a transit commission govern the city’s bus system.

The Hamilton Chamber of Commerce asked city council two years ago to look into returning to a separate body overseeing transit. Currently, the system is managed by city staff within the public works department who report to council’s public works committee.
A report from staff in January argued that is the best model for the city. Don Hull, director of transit, says dozens of municipalities, including Hamilton, have abolished their transit commissions because they had no accountability to taxpayers who end up paying a good chunk of the operational costs.
The chamber isn’t satisfied and has asked city council to investigate establishing a commission that would include voices from business and transit users. They argue that good transit planning has been sacrificed for political gains and that the important portfolio doesn’t have a suitable profile among senior management.
“Whenever there are transit enhancements or changes made, they are politically motivated, rather than business-case oriented,” said Dan Rodrigues, chair of the chamber’s transportation committee.
Councillor Brian McHattie said he isn’t supportive of an autonomous transit commission but “the HSR used to have a seat at the table with corporate management. I think we need more focus on transit, especially as we try to reach target ridership numbers.”
Rodriques says the HSR should be run more as a business, something supported by Peter Hutton of the Hamilton Transit Users Group. He says the organization has discussed the idea of re-establishing a transit commission.

See the full story in tomorrow’s Spectator.

realcity

Feb 2, 2010, 10:31 PM

Why not? We have a separate harbour commission, The Port Authority.

This will need 12 years of studies.... let's get on it.

SteelTown

Feb 2, 2010, 11:03 PM

I wouldn't mind an independent transit authority that would give out suggestions. Sort of the same as the transit steering committee really.

But I would like to see the authority be an equal mixture of committee members, a businessperson, councilor, regualr joe HSR passenger, a BIA member, suburban member, etc.

matt602

Feb 3, 2010, 5:22 AM

Not really sure what I think of that. In recent years the HSR has actually been doing a very good job at increasing service and working with what little funding they get. I don't think a radical change needs to be brought upon them. Instead it is the city and the province that need a shake up.

SteelTown

Feb 3, 2010, 5:34 PM

It's basically keeping the transit steering committee but changing the committee members to get a wide variety of viewpoints. Which I think is a good step.

SteelTown

Feb 5, 2010, 2:37 PM

Mohawk students vote for bus passes

By Mark Newman, News Staff
News
Feb 04, 2010
http://www.hamiltonmountainnews.com/news/article/201737

In what was the largest referendum participation in the college’s history, Mohawk College students last week voted nearly 66 per cent in favour of a mandatory eight-month HSR bus pass initiative that will add $121.80 to tuition fees starting in September.

“It’s great news,” said 29-year-old Matthew Sweet, a transportation technology student at the Fennell campus and one of the proponents of the program. “The voter turnout is a real plus.”

According to Mohawk Students Association numbers, 1,818 full-time students at the Fennell and Stoney Creek campuses voted online or by paper ballot in favour of the bus passes, while 955 students voted no.

Balloting took place over three days.

The voting numbers eclipsed the minimum of 10 percent of the approximately 8,000 students required to participate to make the referendum binding.

Students at Mohawk’s nursing school campus at McMaster University also voted nearly 80 per cent to maintain their existing bus pass system which is the same as the one approved by the other students.

The vote did not apply to students attending Mohawk’s campus in Brantford.

MSA president Alan Griffiths said the 33 percent of eligible students who voted is a new record for Mohawk.

“That’s unheard of,” Griffiths said. “We don’t get 30 per cent of students to vote in anything on campus.”

Griffiths noted past referendums have drawn 10 to 15 per cent participation and the higher numbers reflect student interest in the bus pass issue.

About 1,300 students use the HSR to get to the Fennell campus during the week and 400 use the bus on weekends.

About 35 students ride the bus to the Stoney Creek campus during the week and 15 on Saturdays.

Students who currently pay $87 a month for an adult HSR pass are expected to save more than $574 under the new pass system.

SteelTown

Feb 5, 2010, 2:39 PM

Excellent news! Watch our ridership raise because of this, which means more gas tax money for public transit.

go_leafs_go02

Feb 5, 2010, 6:52 PM

As one of the major proponents of this pass, I have to laugh so hard. I started the facebook group in August 2008, and while due to co-op and the like, I have been in BC for 8 months, I was indirectly involved with the process, although Matthew Sweet took over from myself.

I was told in November, directly by MSA president Alan Griffiths that Mohawk students will NEVER go for a Mandatory Pass, and yet 2 months later, almost 66% of voters voted for the pass. They didn't seem to see the need or desire to address the issue, so they made sure we gathered up a petition, where we received over 1600 signatures (they required 1500), and then forced the referendum.

I was quite shocked at the level of support. I wasn't sure if it would pass or not. There wasn't really a major NO side to the issue. Even out of towners can figure out the system to address their need to avoid parking on campus if they really want to.

Curious now to see what changes to the routings around Fennell/West 5th for September, as there will be a HUGE spike in ridership most likely.

SteelTown

Feb 8, 2010, 12:25 PM

Separate transit group is the ticket: chamber

February 08, 2010
Meredith Macleod
The Hamilton Spectator
http://www.thespec.com/News/Business/article/718055

The Hamilton Chamber of Commerce wants to see an independent transit commission operate the city's bus system and a potential future light-rail line.

The chamber's transportation committee is arguing the Hamilton Street Railway should be divorced from politics and be overseen by a corporation that includes voices from business and users.

"Whenever there are transit enhancements or changes made, they are politically motivated, rather than business-case oriented," said Dan Rodrigues, chairperson of the chamber's transportation committee.

The chamber began this debate with the city close to two years ago. A staff report last month argued the current model of integrating transit fully as a city department is the best for Hamilton.

Currently, the transit system, and its operating budget of about $87 million this year, is overseen by councillors who sit on the public works committee.

The chamber made another pitch for a commission to that committee last week.

Rodrigues says the city hasn't cut Hamilton Street Railway service in underused areas or rationalized routes because councillors don't want to suffer political heat.

"Since amalgamation, the HSR has been increasingly subject to undue political influence," reads the chamber's position paper.

"New routes are assigned, not based on need or maximized ridership or access to employment lands, but on specific interests. The existing plans are vague and aspirational rather than well documented with data and annual ridership targets and review of the impact or initiatives."

The chamber contends that Metrolinx is a model for city transit governance, saying the province removed politicians from the board to rise above parochial politics in planning transportation in the Greater Toronto and Hamilton area.

But Councillor Lloyd Ferguson says outside boards, including conservation authorities and police services, don't have the incentive to closely watch budgets.

He says Hamilton's transit system is efficient and cost-effective.

"There are good reasons to try (a commission) and good reasons to keep the status quo ... I'm not prepared to jump into it."

Don Hull, director of transit for the city, says many municipalities, including Hamilton, have dissolved transit commissions because they aren't accountable to the taxpayer.

Out of close to 100 transit systems belonging to the Canadian Urban Transit Association, only 19 have transit commissions, he says.

And in the case of Toronto, the entire Toronto Transit Commission board is made up of councillors, making it a de facto council committee.

John Dolbec, chamber CEO, counters that Hamilton city council should be focused on strategic planning rather than the details of operations.

"Let council focus on the forest, not the trees," Dolbec wrote in an e-mail.

Barry Wellar, a transportation consultant and retired professor at the University of Ottawa, was surprised to hear Hamilton's transit system is completely swallowed up in the public works department.

"That's right out of the 1800s. It's an engineering mentality ... The people who are focused on moving cars, are they the same people you want working on your light rail? Likely not. They don't have the mindset," he said.

"It's just like the old joke, why do transportation departments build roads? Because they've always built them and they have no other ideas."

While Ottawa abolished its transit commission, there is a citizens advisory committee providing input to staff and council, says Wellar.

Peter Hutton, spokesperson for the Hamilton Transit Users Group, also wants to see the concept of a transit commission explored.

He agrees that planning and good sense has taken a back seat to politicking.

"Any route changes go back to council and they inevitably become a political football."

Councillor Brian McHattie says there are ways to improve the governance of transit without resorting to an independent commission and he's asked public works director Gerry Davis to take a look.

"The HSR used to have a seat at the table with corporate management," said McHattie. "I think we need more focus on transit, especially as we try to reach target ridership numbers."

Rodrigues says transit is more than a social service. It's an economic enabler vital to business and industry and building a city.

That's even more important as the city lobbies for an east-west light-rail transit line, he says. Metrolinx is expected to release its recommendation Feb. 19.

Applying a business approach to transit service would cut the reliance on subsidies from the general tax levy, says Rodrigues.

But the city's Hull says transit has always straddled the divide of social service and business.

About 52 per cent of the HSR's operating budget, close to $46 million in 2010, will come out of the general tax pool.

mdsweet

Feb 8, 2010, 2:16 PM

Mohawk students vote for bus passes

Yay to this! It only took a YEAR to convince them to hold the vote, and when they did there were more votes cast than in any referendum in the school's history.

mishap

Feb 8, 2010, 4:26 PM

Curious now to see what changes to the routings around Fennell/West 5th for September, as there will be a HUGE spike in ridership most likely.
Maybe we'll see plans for that long-discussed terminal at W5th and Fennell. That could be a very important transit hub to connect mountain routes to the downtown. It would certainly give the A-Line a boost.

bigguy1231

Feb 8, 2010, 4:51 PM

Curious now to see what changes to the routings around Fennell/West 5th for September, as there will be a HUGE spike in ridership most likely.

I seriously doubt that you will see a huge spike in ridership. There may be a small blip but those who drive will for the most part still drive. It's just another added cost of going to Mohawk. People looking at going to the college may just decide to go elsewhere if faced with the added expense. Why should people who live close by have to pay for something they don't want or need.

mdsweet

Feb 8, 2010, 5:02 PM

I seriously doubt that you will see a huge spike in ridership. There may be a small blip but those who drive will for the most part still drive. It's just another added cost of going to Mohawk. People looking at going to the college may just decide to go elsewhere if faced with the added expense. Why should people who live close by have to pay for something they don't want or need.

Seems the majority who bothered to vote disagree with you. If they live close by, might as well take the bus since they've already paid for it.

And to add a bit of a jerky comment, those who drive can probably swing the equivalent of an extra insurance payment whereas transit users are going to save in the neighbourhood of $500.

As if people are going to stop enrolling at Mohawk in droves because there's a bus pass now. It sure hurt McMaster's enrollment.

flar

Feb 8, 2010, 5:25 PM

Nobody will pick another college because of this. A bus pass is usually considered a "pro" when you're selecting a university or college. Besides, the cost is a drop in the bucket compared to other fees/expenses of post secondary education.

Jon Dalton

Feb 8, 2010, 8:02 PM

Maybe people will pick the college with the FREE BUS PASS. Seriously, not everyone sees transit as a constant negative.

emge

Feb 8, 2010, 9:51 PM

bigguy1231

Feb 9, 2010, 7:13 AM

Not to mention that OSAP is based on a school's tuition and fees, so OSAP will adjust to cover the new average Mohawk charges.

This means
a. OSAP monies will now be bumped up about $120 and cover the bus pass (without extra cost to students, since max repayable OSAP is $7k yearly and many receive more than that).

and

b. No student will have to spend eight hundred dollars a year out of their monthly budget any more, which OSAP doesn't assume every student pays.

Not all students get OSAP. As a matter of fact most students don't get OSAP especially if they live with their parents. I could never get it when I was in university. I made too much in the various jobs I had while in school. I know I wouldn't appreciate paying for something that would be totally useless, considering that money was comming out of my pocket. I would pay that money for parking though. When I was at Mac it used to cost me $60 per year for parking. I think bus passes back then were 20 or 25 dollars per month.

mdsweet

Feb 9, 2010, 12:53 PM

When I was at Mac it used to cost me $60 per year for parking. I think bus passes back then were 20 or 25 dollars per month.
Parking at Mohawk is currently $225 per semester, or $450 per year.

emge

Feb 9, 2010, 3:44 PM

Not all students get OSAP. As a matter of fact most students don't get OSAP especially if they live with their parents. I could never get it when I was in university. I made too much in the various jobs I had while in school. I know I wouldn't appreciate paying for something that would be totally useless, considering that money was comming out of my pocket. I would pay that money for parking though. When I was at Mac it used to cost me $60 per year for parking. I think bus passes back then were 20 or 25 dollars per month.

I'm not sure what your point is.

If you're someone without OSAP, it certainly makes more sense to pay $120/year for a bus pass than the gas, insurance, and parking on a car.

Very few students without OSAP or parental support are able to support themselves and pay for school - AND drive.

OSAP isn't impossible to get. There's been a couple summers where I made $8k or $10k in four months and still got it when I went back to school - and that was when my husband was working as well. You have to make quite a bit of money to get no OSAP at all. (although yes, it is rather frustrating to try and work while in school - if I make $1000, they take away $800 or so. I have to make less than $50/week to not have my OSAP adjusted).

Now, if a student's got Mummy and Daddy paying for the car, with their car, gas and insurance, then I don't feel so bad about the "poor kids" having to either (a) pay for parking only or (b) take the bus for $120/year. Not to mention Mummy and Daddy are probably providing free food and lodging.

But either way, that $120/year is money well spent- and when the bus is for all intents and purposes free, then it creates an incentive to take it more.

mdsweet

Feb 9, 2010, 3:56 PM

Now, if a student's got Mummy and Daddy paying for the car, with their car, gas and insurance, then I don't feel so bad about the "poor kids" having to either (a) pay for parking only or (b) take the bus for $120/year. Not to mention Mummy and Daddy are probably providing free food and lodging.

But either way, that $120/year is money well spent- and when the bus is for all intents and purposes free, then it creates an incentive to take it more.

QFT

SteelTown

Feb 9, 2010, 4:01 PM

Mohawk is suppose to have a single transit terminal facing Fennell. Perhaps they'll work on the terminal once the new Fennell campus building is complete. The City has reserved the money for years and Mohawk is suppose to chip in with funding as well.

The amount is the same for the cost of building the Eastgate terminal.

Jon Dalton

Feb 9, 2010, 5:26 PM

mdsweet

Feb 9, 2010, 5:51 PM

Obviously I'm newer, but is bigguy just an obvious troll or am I mistaken?

emge

Feb 9, 2010, 6:16 PM

go_leafs_go02

Feb 9, 2010, 6:36 PM

Nah, he has some helpful history and input from time to time.... and is honest with his opinions.

As far as I can tell, he's exactly what he claims to be - a long-term resident of Hamilton, who holds opinions he believes the majority of Hamilton residents also share.

Understandable, but I would ask him to realize that this referendum on Mohawk Bus Passes strictly looked at the opinion of Mohawk Students.

Was there some opposition to the measure? Yes, but out of 8000+ full-time students, only 900 and change voted against the pass? Simply put, they're in the minority, and if you don't vote, then you can't whine later on.

It was simply the question of if students would want to save $100s of dollars in parking fees, fuel, and wear-and-tear on their vehicles if they could sacrifice extra time by taking transit.

The answer was yes, but almost 2/3rds majority to boot.

bigguy1231

Feb 10, 2010, 7:10 AM

So bus riders should pay $500 so that drivers can save $120? What?

Thats not what I said. I have no problem with students getting a good deal for using public transit if they choose to do so. My objection is with it being manditory. Why should someone who lives within walking distance have to subsidize transportation for someone else. Why should someone who wants to use their car, have to subsidize those who choose to take public transit. As far as I am concerned the students association has no business mandating fees for off campus services.

bigguy1231

Feb 10, 2010, 7:47 AM

Nah, he has some helpful history and input from time to time.... and is honest with his opinions.

As far as I can tell, he's exactly what he claims to be - a long-term resident of Hamilton, who holds opinions he believes the majority of Hamilton residents also share.

Thanks, you got most of it right.

However, I don't necessarily hold the opinions that I sometimes present. I have been involved in politics and public service in this city off and on for over 30 years on a voluntary basis. I am pretty good at reading public opinion. Alot of the time I am just stating what I know the majority is going to say or how they are going to react to certain situations.

I do that to temper the enthusiasm some of you show towards certain subjects, not to discourage you but to bring you back to reality. Just because some of the people here want something to happen doesn't mean it's going to happen the way you want it to.

In this city, nothing is what it appears to be, especially when it comes to city hall.

bigguy1231

Feb 10, 2010, 7:56 AM

Obviously I'm newer, but is bigguy just an obvious troll or am I mistaken?

So if it's not your way it's the highway. Get out of mommy's basement, learn a little about the world. There are opinions on all sides of an issue. Life would be pretty boring if we all agreed on everything.

mdsweet

Feb 10, 2010, 3:22 PM

So if it's not your way it's the highway. Get out of mommy's basement, learn a little about the world. There are opinions on all sides of an issue. Life would be pretty boring if we all agreed on everything.

Last thing I want is to get personal. As I said, I'm getting the lay of the land, and thus far I haven't seen much from you other than immediately dumping on ideas. Its an internet comment board, trolls are common, and if you aren't one I'm glad.
I am well aware that there's more to the story than nice ideas. There's alot of hard work that follows from the idea if it's to become successful. Part of that work is convincing people in this city that the status quo isn't working, business as usual won't get us anywhere new, and something dramatic has to happen to shake up this city. I'm certainly not saying that a shiny transit system will cure all our ills. It's a start. The challenge is to follow up with a clear idea of the end goal, whether or not the first big step is light rail or something else.
And for the record, mummy hasn't paid any of my bills in quite a few years. :haha:

Jon Dalton

Feb 10, 2010, 9:44 PM

Thats not what I said. I have no problem with students getting a good deal for using public transit if they choose to do so. My objection is with it being manditory. Why should someone who lives within walking distance have to subsidize transportation for someone else. Why should someone who wants to use their car, have to subsidize those who choose to take public transit.

Because we live in a society.

highwater

Feb 10, 2010, 9:49 PM

Because we live in a society.

...and because people who want to use transit have to subsidize people who choose to drive all the time.

Berklon

Feb 10, 2010, 10:08 PM

...and because people who want to use transit have to subsidize people who choose to drive all the time.

and that subsidy is A LOT higher than the other way around.

bigguy1231

Feb 11, 2010, 7:59 AM

...and because people who want to use transit have to subsidize people who choose to drive all the time.

That may be so, but there are more people driving than using public transit. Ask those drivers what they want their tax dollars spent on. It won't be on public transit. The tax dollars are spent where the majority wants them spent. If politicians felt spending money on public transit would win them elections, we would have the best transit system around.

mdsweet

Feb 11, 2010, 12:41 PM

If politicians felt spending money on public transit would win them elections, we would have the best transit system around.

Here we arrive at the sad reality, in particular in Hamilton, where political will is limited to job security for said polititions. If our leaders would lead, one wonders where we'd be.

SteelTown

Feb 11, 2010, 2:28 PM

That's why I support an independent HSR transit commission. We should have professionals selecting routes and improvements instead of politicians having the final word.

highwater

Feb 11, 2010, 2:50 PM

That may be so, but there are more people driving than using public transit. Ask those drivers what they want their tax dollars spent on. It won't be on public transit. The tax dollars are spent where the majority wants them spent. If politicians felt spending money on public transit would win them elections, we would have the best transit system around.

The problem is the subsidies to drivers are so massive and hidden, that most people are ignorant of them, or they simply accept them as normal and don't see them as subsidies at all, yet any public investment in other forms of transportation is demonized as a 'subsidy'.

So you're saying that instead of educating the public and reframing the debate so we can have an intelligent discussion about sustainable future transportation systems, we just poll all the drivers and wallow in ignorance as Europe and Asia pass us by. I'm sorry that you've given up, but the status quo is economic suicide. Minds are going to have to change sooner or later.

SteelTown

Mar 22, 2010, 11:06 AM

Mohawk students would get big HSR break
City transportation plan calls for fewer cars - more buses, bikes

March 22, 2010
Dana Brown
The Hamilton Spectator
http://www.thespec.com/News/Local/article/740473

Mohawk College students will pay a lot less for bus transportation under a new plan being looked at by city councillors.

McMaster University, Redeemer University College, and students at the Mohawk/McMaster Institute for Applied Health Sciences are already covered under the University/College Transit Pass program.

It provides students with a pass for a fraction of regular rates.

The current cost for undergraduates is $102.70, which covers the eight-month academic year.

That compares to $87 it costs for a monthly adult pass.

In September, when 8,500 Mohawk students join the program, the cost will increase to $121.80 for the academic year as part of a pre-arranged hike.

"It kind of rounds out all the major post-secondary institutions in Hamilton," said Paul Thompson, manager of fare administration and ATS with the city.

"I think we're one of the few cities in Canada who could say that. And we expect it'll have both positive ridership and hopefully some good revenue impacts."

City staff estimate the new enrollments will generate about $940,000 in revenue. Not all of that will be new, however, as many students currently ride the HSR and pay regular rates.

Alan Griffiths, president of the Mohawk Students' Association, said last year a group of students formed a club to raise awareness about the pass. They worked with the association and together were successful in getting enough petition signatures for a referendum.

More than 35 per cent of students voted -- the highest turnout ever experienced in a referendum -- and about 60 per cent supported joining the program.

"We hope students that have the ability to take public transportation or use active transportation to get to school will pick up this pass - will use it, will stop driving," Griffiths said.

He said there have been complaints from students who commute and buy a parking pass. The association is working with the school to offer a discount for them.

Mohawk's inclusion in the plan is in the process of getting approval from city council.

drpgq

Mar 22, 2010, 6:31 PM

Does the city publish HSR ridership numbers anywhere?

Bureaucromancer

Apr 3, 2010, 9:50 PM

Has there been any real discussion about mountain access for the A-Line yet?

Honestly, none of the options look great at this point. My biggest question is what would be the viability of closing James Mountain Road for a transit corridor? Widening doesn't look like an option, nothing else is even in vaguely the right place and a tunnel seems unlikely with funding as it is (and I wonder if the James route isn't better than a straight shot tunnel like ICTS was going to have anyway, which would miss Mohawk College)... How much might it change the equations about James Mountain if the connection from 5th to the Clarence access could be made two way?

SteelTown

Apr 4, 2010, 8:35 PM

The EA will deal with the tunnel issue for the A-Line. The EA has begun already. We should know by the end of the year what the final plan is.

Personally I don't understand why they just don't consider building an above track along the Escarpment from James St to West 5th.

coalminecanary

Apr 5, 2010, 2:47 PM

My 2 cents on my favourite 2 options:

1. just use claremont. It is gently sloped, unbelievably wide, and horribly underused.

and/or

2. a terminal at st. joe's (LRT), and a terminal at southam park (old mountain view hotel site/incline railway site) for upper james buses - or eventually upper james LRT, with terminals linked by a transit-grade aerial tramway (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portland_Aerial_Tram)(gondola):
http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?oe=UTF-8&ie=UTF8&hl=en&msa=0&ll=43.245132,-79.874682&spn=0.010574,0.007178&t=h&z=17&msid=103333607612038124618.0004837e52da3fd691839

Bureaucromancer

Apr 5, 2010, 3:15 PM

The other option I've considered, and sort of like is going to BRT for the mountain line. Dig a tunnel substantially along the lines of the direct line that the ICTS proposal used, with dual mode trolley buses for the tunnel, downtown and possibly some portion on the mountain.

The mountain seems like an appropriate application for BRT, with basically a short section of busway bypassing the existing mountain routes being a substantial boost to local services all across the mountain. Rapid bus style improvements on James, Fennel and/or Mohawk would seem to be enough for the rest of network to operate well, without the expense of a full rail right of way. Trolleys, meanwhile, would be perfect for the kind of heavy grade you would have in a tunnel straight up the mountain, and if the wires are extended downtown and out James (I'd suggest wires on James from LIUNA to Mohawk and then across to Lime Ridge) would get you the same environmental advantages as rail, and modern dual mode doesn't require manual rewiring, so through service is actually practical.

It also gets conveniently around the fact that all the discussion to this point have been for a line to the airport, which is just not going to fly (no pun intended) as a rail line but would be badly compromised by a forced transfer somewhere on the Upper James if a shorter rail line was built.

Assuming some kind of guidance is used in the tunnel (probably not a huge expense once dual mode vehicles are assumed) the tunnel could even be built to dimensions closer to a rail than conventional road tunnel. It certainly wouldn't do anything to compromise a future rail conversion (assuming the grades are kept within reason, which they really should be even for buses), but would be much cheaper in capital terms, and actually works from a service perspective (i.e. it's not a clear example of BRT being poor man's rail given the network structure).

coalminecanary

Apr 5, 2010, 4:34 PM

I just don't understand the tunnel case. It is completely unnecessary - especially considering the underused capacity at claremont:
http://maps.google.com/maps?oe=UTF-8&q=Clarence+Access,+Hamilton,+Hamilton+Division,+Ontario,+Canada&ie=UTF8&hl=en&cd=1&geocode=FenhkwIdiVo9-w&split=0&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=23.875,57.630033&hq=&hnear=Clarence+Access,+Hamilton,+Hamilton+Division,+Ontario,+Canada&ll=43.246135,-79.863535&spn=0.002587,0.001794&t=k&z=19

Bureaucromancer

Apr 5, 2010, 4:53 PM

To me the problem with Claremont is that the north end just doesn't go anywhere. The best case scenario for routing I can see is with LRT, in which case it could turn onto whichever of King or Main ends up being used for the B-Line, and presumably turn north again at James since it really does have to connect the new GO station (which by all indications will a the same location as LIUNA, even if we don't get the building back) to downtown, and the existing station.

My feeling is that the the benefits of a tunnel route are such that if we go BRT they should probably just eat the cost (I'd suggest funding it by limiting ROW construction elsewhere, instead emphasizing dedicated and HOV lanes), while if we go LRT James Mountain makes more sense. At least James Mountain has a shorter detour, and one that includes a significant trip generator (Mohawk College).

Jon Dalton

Apr 5, 2010, 8:20 PM

SteelTown

Apr 5, 2010, 9:14 PM

I dunno why they just don't copy the 1981 plan for the mountain access for either BRT or LRT...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v384/Aallen396/19811.jpg

Have it elevated and go ground level once at James St and St Joseph's Drive.

Bureaucromancer

Apr 6, 2010, 12:59 AM

I dunno why they just don't copy the 1981 plan for the mountain access for either BRT or LRT...

Have it elevated and go ground level once at James St and St Joseph's Drive.

Exactly my suggestion for BRT, with the addition that you electrify the buses in the tunnel and build the tunnel itself, implementing other private ROWs over time as and where needed, rather than as a one off complete rapid transit line.

coalminecanary

Apr 6, 2010, 2:01 PM

I don't think the Claremont route would fly because it would add too many non-revenue miles. It would bypass alot of ridership while making the whole trip longer. Probably cheaper in the long run to build the tunnel.

I think that's an exaggeration. The only major ridership hub it would bypass would be st joe's (which is easily walkable from the hunter station), and it would connect the communities around hunter/victoria to the downtown a little better. It's just a slight eastern detour. The stretch that actually climbs is non-revenue no matter which method is used to mount the escarpment...

miketoronto

Apr 14, 2010, 4:19 PM

I know this may sound bad to say a route should be cancelled.

But do you guys think the route 7 Locke bus should be cancelled?

Everytime I visit Hamilton, and ride that bus to get to the restaurants on Locke, it is always empty. Even when I was on it yesterday during rush hour, there was four people on the bus. Sitting in the restaurant, every number 7 bus that went by had one person on them. When we got on the 7 after dinner, it again only had one person on it.

If the number 7 was taken out of service, all residents in the area would still be within a 500 meter walk of a bus stop, which is the basic standard most Canadian transit systems use when planning routes.

By removing the number 7, the bus allocated to the interlined 6-7-8 service, could be allocated to provide more frequent service on the number 6 route, along Aberdeen.
Then residents could either walk to Main, and board frequent services, or Aberdeen and board a more frequent service. Or even board north south buses on Queen/Hess.

Service during off peak hours could be improved to a bus every 15 minutes on Aberdeen instead of every 30 minutes. I suspect that at the moment many bus riders in the area do just walk to Main Street to get a bus, as we noticed a number of people doing that. So if the 7 is going empty, and there are better options there, why keep it running?

What do you guys think?

SteelTown

May 17, 2010, 10:56 PM

Presto will roll out for HSR fall of 2011.

mishap

May 18, 2010, 6:46 AM

Presto will roll out for HSR fall of 2011.
Where'd you hear that? Every indication has been that it'll be this fall. The HSR says this. Presto says this. They've even started installing the readers in buses.

SteelTown

May 18, 2010, 11:40 AM

Perhaps it was just a typo from the Toronto Star.

mishap

May 18, 2010, 3:43 PM

Perhaps it was just a typo from the Toronto Star.
Oh, thank goodness. I was afraid that was the "major announcement" from Metrolinx we were warned about.

matt602

May 18, 2010, 9:49 PM

Definitely a typo. Presto's site says Hamilton is getting it in Winter 2010/2011. The HSR site says "Coming in 2010".

https://www.prestocard.ca/StaticContent/Faq#Q4

Winter 2011:

* • Durham Region Transit
* • York Region Transit
* • Hamilton Street Railway
* • GO Transit's Stouffville GO Rail line and GO Bus routes

Burlington Transit already has the equipment. Not sure if it's fully functional but the readers print their transfers. I'm wondering if the Presto machine will do the same for HSR or if the HSR will opt for a separate machine to do it.

mishap

May 19, 2010, 8:13 AM

But not according to this page:

https://www.prestocard.ca/StaticContent/Gtafs

Fall 2010. And I would believe that because the HSR is telling people it's coming this fall. At least, that's the plan. And if they had planned on winter, they wouldn't be installing the machines right now.

So two different dates on the same website. And the Star probably got their date from somewhere. I'm a little leery as to how on the ball the Presto team is. Even the information in the "how-it-works" videos is not how I originally heard the system would function.

matt602

May 19, 2010, 11:05 AM

Well then, thats confusing. I'll trust the info from you though.

LikeHamilton

May 31, 2010, 6:05 PM

Smart transit card coming to Hamilton

TheSpec.com

PRESTO is coming to Hamilton.

The tap and go smartcard fare card will be available in the city June 7.

GO Transit staff are on hand at the Hamilton station during rush hours this week during rush hour to explain the use and benefits of the cards.

The card allows riders to travel on and between different transit systems and pay the correct fare by tapping their pre-loaded card on a reader. Hamilton’s buses will join the system next winter.

Riders will be able to load dollar value onto their card and tap on the green readers at stations and on buses to have the correct fare deducted on each leg of their trip, including their municipal bus, GO Transit and 12 Toronto Transit Commission stations most GO commuters use.

The Ontario government has a 10-year, $250 million contract with Accenture, until 2016, for the design, build and operation of the Presto system.

Unlike current monthly passes, Presto cards must be tapped on a reader before riders board, but they can be replaced if they’re reported lost or stolen and they allow the user to board and exit anywhere on the system, so riders don’t have to buy a separate ticket if they’re not going to their usual stop.

Once Hamilton is aboard, the cards can be used on the Lakeshore west corridor from Hamilton to Long Branch; on all Burlington and Oakville Transit buses; TTC stations at Bloor, College, Dundas, Queen’s Park, St. George and St. Patrick. Mimico and Exhibition will be added in July.

markbarbera

May 31, 2010, 6:15 PM

Unfortunately it is available on June 7 for GO Transit only and not for HSR. I always get the monthly GO Pass with the HSR add-on, and it would be more expensive for me to move to Presto as it stands today (by the tune of about $50 a month!). Hopefully once Presto is on the HSR system it will be economically advantageous to use it, but the way it stands now I am better off staying old school with my transit pass. Quite the disappointment.

thistleclub

May 31, 2010, 7:09 PM

I've seen the readers on some buses but not as many as you'd think given an intended June 7 roll out... Halton put their units through a month or two of field testing before the early May launch.

c@taract_soulj@h

Jun 13, 2010, 3:48 PM