[RePinion]

Nope. Look at their website. They sell freight cars, like Hamretrofit said.

[hamtransithistory]

National Steel Car built.....
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a382/hammer396/hsr530a.jpg

Wouldn't be surprised if Dalton awarded the contract to National Steel Car for the rail lines for the LRT under MoveOntario 2020. That will help our economy. Funny thing was those streetcars were built during around the 1930's, a government created program to provide jobs.

As far as I know, these 48 cars (HSR 500-547) built in 1927-1929 were the only streetcars ever built by National Steel Car. Why NSC did this I have no idea. Either this was an attempt to enter the streetcar market that died out due to the great depression, or it was some sort of attempt to 'Buy Hamiltonian,' with other companies providing motors and electrical gear, and NSC responsible for building the frame, body and trucks, as well as final assembly of the streetcars.

Still, it would be great if the LRT could be built entirely by Hamilton companies; Rail, overhead wiring, vehicles, and the actual construction. A lot of money would be pumped into the local economy.

[HAMRetrofit]

Seimens, who has a Hamilton outfit, manufacture passenger cars. I am not certain what that actually do in Hamilton. Perhaps they could be convinced to expand their plant in Hamilton to manufacture rail cars if they receive the contract. I still think Bombardier is more likely since the province could buy in bulk with the TTC's LRT cars.

[SteelTown]

What do you guys think GO Transit should name the new station?

I would like Jamesville GO Station.

[HAMRetrofit]

I would name it Bayfront GO station. Bayfront will make the surrounding neighborhoods more marketable.

The hunter station I would name Downtown GO station.

[raisethehammer]

I agree, although I'd try to get the name 'North End' in the station...Bayfront-North End perhaps?

[hamiltonguy]

As far as I know, these 48 cars (HSR 500-547) built in 1927-1929 were the only streetcars ever built by National Steel Car. Why NSC did this I have no idea. Either this was an attempt to enter the streetcar market that died out due to the great depression, or it was some sort of attempt to 'Buy Hamiltonian,' with other companies providing motors and electrical gear, and NSC responsible for building the frame, body and trucks, as well as final assembly of the streetcars.

Still, it would be great if the LRT could be built entirely by Hamilton companies; Rail, overhead wiring, vehicles, and the actual construction. A lot of money would be pumped into the local economy.

Really? I could've sworn they did some Interurbans for a few cities...

Edit: I was thinking of Ottawa Car and Foundry, my apologies...

[hamiltonguy]

I would name it Bayfront GO station. Bayfront will make the surrounding neighborhoods more marketable.

The hunter station I would name Downtown GO station.

Bayfront-James for the James Street Station

and Hamilton (Hunter Street) for the Downtown Station.

[SteelTown]

I think GO Transit will name them:

James GO Station

Hamilton Central GO Station

[matt602]

Hamilton-North or Hamilton Bay station seems fitting to me. It can't be something like "Jamesville" because that's completely unrecognizable to people from outside of Hamilton.

[hamiltonguy]

Hamilton-North station seems fitting to me. It can't be something like "Jamesville" because that's completely unrecognizable to people from outside of Hamilton.

But so's Cooksville and a whole other load of station names.

Hamilton- Harbourfront or Hamilton-Jamesville both seem like better names than the generic "Hamilton North"

[SteelTown]

Lisgar, Erindale, Rouge Hill, Guildwood, Chesswood, King City, Rutherford, Landstaff, Old Cummer (hehe), etc are all GO Stations.

[matt602]

Point taken.

[flar]

We need to get the word out on LRT. In a recent transportation survey of over 5000 McMaster students, LRT or light rail was only mentioned four times in the comments/suggestions.

[HAMRetrofit]

I like Bayfront as the station name because it relates to Bayfront Park, the major feature for the area.

[markbarbera]

I think Barton would be more fitting, as a nice 'tip of the hat' to the hsitory of the area.

[HAMRetrofit]

To be honest, references to Barton could be avoided for the time being. It is not that I think the neighborhood has no potential, it does. It just brings up connotations of the Hamilton stereotype, a problem for outsiders. Just mention it to someone who knows Hamilton from the outside and images of bombed out working class neighborhoods prevail. People may want to avoid 'Barton Station' like the street.

LIUNA station could be avoided as well.

[DC83]

We need to get the word out on LRT. In a recent transportation survey of over 5000 McMaster students, LRT or light rail was only mentioned four times in the comments/suggestions.

I agree like 500%! Most people don't even know what LRT means, even WHEN talking about Transit. Some ppl I mention it to think it's a subway, some (most) think Toronto Streetcar and are instantly turned off... until I give them my lil presentation. haha

What can we do? I thought about printing off posters w/ the header from HamiltonLightRail.com & advertising the website... but then I thought about all those trees they'd cut down to supply me with the paper. haha

Has The Spec even done a story on it? The recomendation date is approaching QUICKLY, maybe it's high time The Spec does a report on this. Let's all email them ! (http://www.thespec.com/aboutus/news)

Maybe we shouldn't inform CHCH... I wouldn't even want to THINK about what kind of story they would come up with;
"Do you want trains roaring down Main Street, taking away traffic lanes and running over your children? Well SOME residents think Rail Transit is the way to go in Hamilton... we at CHCH say, 'get a car you bum!" ... and now, Lindsay Lohan..." hehehe

ps: I like Hamilton-Bayfront & Hamilton-Downtown for GO Stn names.

[matt602]

LRT needs advertising through the city. You can't just hope people are going to attend meetings for something they don't know anything about. CHCH and the Hamilton Spec couldn't care less about covering anything to do with LRT unless it becomes a reality. Postering downtown about it would be good, particularly slapping them up on bus shelters and other bus areas where transit users would see. Including a link to a informational website on LRT in Hamilton would be beneficial. It's still not going to reach out to the older audience, since they're turned off of anything that involves using a computer but the student and young people audience should have their attention grabbed.

[SteelTown]

I was thinking since Mayor Fred and Bratina would like to use the extra transit money (around $8 million) towards the downtown transit terminal why not use that money building a glass roof over the entire stretch of MacNab from Main to King. That way the middle island can be used strictly for benches and seating instead of wasting room for shelters. Plus with the roof you don't have to worry about snow removal and it'll protect passengers from snow and rain. It would be attractive to new riders to increase HSR ridership.

Something like this but smaller for MacNab
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/df/Moscow_Kievsy_Rail_Station_glass_and_steel_roof.jpg/800px-Moscow_Kievsy_Rail_Station_glass_and_steel_roof.jpg

[coalminecanary]

OR.. something similar to that behind TH&B since that's a better spot for a downtown transit terminal :-p

Plus, get cars off of hughson and make a covered pedestrian walkway to gore park (lrt line?) from th&b ;-)

[DC83]

LRT needs advertising through the city. You can't just hope people are going to attend meetings for something they don't know anything about. CHCH and the Hamilton Spec couldn't care less about covering anything to do with LRT unless it becomes a reality. Postering downtown about it would be good, particularly slapping them up on bus shelters and other bus areas where transit users would see. Including a link to a informational website on LRT in Hamilton would be beneficial. It's still not going to reach out to the older audience, since they're turned off of anything that involves using a computer but the student and young people audience should have their attention grabbed.

I know it's not much, but I sent an email to the View Mag editor (www.viewmag.com) requesting they print a Cover Story about LRT (or even comparing LRT vs BRT) to educate it's readers. If 4 of 5000 students knew of LRT then, just think of how many will understand it after View Mag prints a cover story. And not just students, but tons of regular citizens,too!

[flar]

^^good idea

[Jon Dalton]

Plus, get cars off of hughson and make a covered pedestrian walkway to gore park (lrt line?) from th&b ;-)


Agreed. Some time ago there was a discussion about not having LRT turn corners and alter its route because it would cut down on speed. I believe the system must sacrifice speed in the downtown core in order to reach more destinations and make more stops - after all this is where the density justifies it. Safety is also a huge concern, and there is a trade off between integration into the street to provide aesthetic and economic benefits and safety measures that allow increased speeds but make it less attractive. I believe that to provide the best benefit to the core, our LRT should detour from Gore Park to hit the TH&B, the James North station and then back to King/Main to head west.

There seem to be two schools of thought on the issue - slow it down through the core, or take it underground to keep the speed up. In Hamilton, we need the benefits at street level more than we need the speed.

[c@taract_soulj@h]

Question...should our possibly beloved LRT stay completely above ground or maybe have a Buffalo/Edmonton feel to it at some point? I could see some underground action happening.

Could anyone picture trains running across (or under) the Main or King street bridges crossing the 403, similar to the Bloor Viaduct in Toronto en route to downtown? Possibly stations at Dundurn, Queen/Hess, Bay, James and Wellington...BUT should it run along Main or King streets while underground?

The superblock comprised of Jackson Square would undoubtedly have to have at least one station (Bay St and maybe James) and say another at Gore Park and then First Place where it's to come above ground again. Or maybe the opposite like Buffalo and go it underground as it heads towards the East End of the city. I'll see if I can come up with a map

[mishap]

OR.. something similar to that behind TH&B since that's a better spot for a downtown transit terminal :-p

Can you believe that? How do they think they'll fit all the HSR platforms behind the station? The HSR will never go for that. They require pull-in, pull-out bus bays, and GO needs those layover spots. If they must use the GO Station, put the buses in front, on Hunter. Buses only, two-way operation, bays on both sides. They could likely fit 12 sawtooth bus bays, all capable of handling 60-foot artics, more if some were only for 40-footers. And that still leaves the current two HSR bays behind the station.

[/QUOTE]Plus, get cars off of hughson and make a covered pedestrian walkway to gore park (lrt line?) from th&b ;-)[/QUOTE]

But, it's already been decided here, the LRT line will run down Hunter St. :-)

[mishap]

oops, stupid slash

[Bob Bratina]

I think LikeHamilton (A) owes me an apology and (B) needs to rethink his blog name.
GO and VIA should never have left the James Street north location in the first place. The old station should have been purchased by the City and the required space leased back to the railways. Remember it was CN property, and far too big for VIA's needs in the early 1990's. The decision to move GO to Hunter Street did not make sense, but it did help us save an architectural masterpiece, the Art Deco Hunter Street T.H. & B. Station. Now as the need for public transit accelerates rapidly, two stations on two different lines can work. Another ignominious decision was to remove the trackage from Wentworth Street South to Hannon, the old CN Hagersville Sub. This line connects with the CP/GO trackage between Walnut South and Wentworth and could have provided GO train service from Hunter to the burgeoning residential areas on the south Mountain, with stations at Mohawk, Rymal Road, and the Airport. The right of way is about a mile east of the Airport and may be considered for a light rail service to the Hunter Street Station. We are seriously examining that possibility The right of way continues south from Airport Road to Caledonia, and a connection could be re-established to provide rail/air cargo intermodal transport as an enhancement to Hamilton International. Rail connections to airports are considered important assets for both passengers and freight and you can find out more by googling "airport rail links".

While it is true I have a great affection for railways, steam locomotives, their history and folklore, I also have a practical understanding of railroad technical attributes, and how rail fits into a properly conceived transportation strategy.

My wife is beautiful, and is a huge asset in the efficient operation of our household, combining the romantic with the practical. Perhaps "LikeHamilton" has sadly had a different experience.

Why is it by the way bloggers are reluctant to identify themselves?

[SteelTown]

Welcome Bob Bratina!!

[DC83]

Welcome Bob Bratina!!

Indeed! What a great asset to the forum ;)
Welcome!! :)

[JT Jacobs]

I think LikeHamilton (A) owes me an apology and (B) needs to rethink his blog name.
GO and VIA should never have left the James Street north location in the first place. The old station should have been purchased by the City and the required space leased back to the railways. Remember it was CN property, and far too big for VIA's needs in the early 1990's. The decision to move GO to Hunter Street did not make sense, but it did help us save an architectural masterpiece, the Art Deco Hunter Street T.H. & B. Station. Now as the need for public transit accelerates rapidly, two stations on two different lines can work. Another ignominious decision was to remove the trackage from Wentworth Street South to Hannon, the old CN Hagersville Sub. This line connects with the CP/GO trackage between Walnut South and Wentworth and could have provided GO train service from Hunter to the burgeoning residential areas on the south Mountain, with stations at Mohawk, Rymal Road, and the Airport. The right of way is about a mile east of the Airport and may be considered for a light rail service to the Hunter Street Station. We are seriously examining that possibility The right of way continues south from Airport Road to Caledonia, and a connection could be re-established to provide rail/air cargo intermodal transport as an enhancement to Hamilton International. Rail connections to airports are considered important assets for both passengers and freight and you can find out more by googling "airport rail links".

While it is true I have a great affection for railways, steam locomotives, their history and folklore, I also have a practical understanding of railroad technical attributes, and how rail fits into a properly conceived transportation strategy.

My wife is beautiful, and is a huge asset in the efficient operation of our household, combining the romantic with the practical. Perhaps "LikeHamilton" has sadly had a different experience.

Why is it by the way bloggers are reluctant to identify themselves?

Yes, welcome Bob.

Also, thanks for all of your hard work for the city, particularly recently with all things trains. I myself emailed VIA, for what it's worth.

I'm with you about real names on message boards. I've always felt that it's too easy to say anything you want when you can hide behind anonymity. As well, an internet 'community' suffers when nearly everyone hides behind aliases: nobody really knows anyone. All well . . .

[oldcoote]

Why is it by the way bloggers are reluctant to identify themselves?

What, and reveal my secret identity?






p.s. Welcome Bob!

[hamtransithistory]

I think LikeHamilton (A) owes me an apology and (B) needs to rethink his blog name.
GO and VIA should never have left the James Street north location in the first place. The old station should have been purchased by the City and the required space leased back to the railways. Remember it was CN property, and far too big for VIA's needs in the early 1990's. The decision to move GO to Hunter Street did not make sense, but it did help us save an architectural masterpiece, the Art Deco Hunter Street T.H. & B. Station. Now as the need for public transit accelerates rapidly, two stations on two different lines can work. Another ignominious decision was to remove the trackage from Wentworth Street South to Hannon, the old CN Hagersville Sub. This line connects with the CP/GO trackage between Walnut South and Wentworth and could have provided GO train service from Hunter to the burgeoning residential areas on the south Mountain, with stations at Mohawk, Rymal Road, and the Airport. The right of way is about a mile east of the Airport and may be considered for a light rail service to the Hunter Street Station. We are seriously examining that possibility The right of way continues south from Airport Road to Caledonia, and a connection could be re-established to provide rail/air cargo intermodal transport as an enhancement to Hamilton International. Rail connections to airports are considered important assets for both passengers and freight and you can find out more by googling "airport rail links".

While it is true I have a great affection for railways, steam locomotives, their history and folklore, I also have a practical understanding of railroad technical attributes, and how rail fits into a properly conceived transportation strategy.

My wife is beautiful, and is a huge asset in the efficient operation of our household, combining the romantic with the practical. Perhaps "LikeHamilton" has sadly had a different experience.

Why is it by the way bloggers are reluctant to identify themselves?

Hello Bob, and welcome.

As for the use of a nickname instead of my real name when posting, I'm just shamelessly promoting my website.;) (BTW, I'm Tom)

[matt602]

Welcome aboard Mr. Bratina. It's great to have you here, I think we can all feel a bit more satisfied that our concerns/ideas regarding LRT are getting to the right people now :)

[chris k]

Welcome Mr. Bratina, hopefully it is really you!

Great to know someone like you comes here and skims our contents.

Btw Chris is my real name, just incase you were wondering..

[coalminecanary]

I know it's not much, but I sent an email to the View Mag editor (www.viewmag.com) requesting they print a Cover Story about LRT (or even comparing LRT vs BRT) to educate it's readers.

The problem is that View is not truly a local paper. A lot of their rubbish is shared between View and also the Niagara version and the Guelph or Kitchener one (I can't remember which ones are owned by the same company).

For what it's worth, the cover story of H Magazine last month was regarding LRT, and the article (written by me BTW ;) ) was a 2 page spread. The REAL local media is covering it, but the problem is that most of our media is not truly local.

Can you believe that? How do they think they'll fit all the HSR platforms behind the station? The HSR will never go for that. They require pull-in, pull-out bus bays, and GO needs those layover spots. If they must use the GO Station, put the buses in front, on Hunter.

There is a LOT of space back there. It is very wide and there are actually two sides available for bus bays. There could be a middle lane of bays too if they put some curbs in. But I agree that the front of Hunter should be used as well.

GO and VIA should never have left the James Street north location in the first place. ... The decision to move GO to Hunter Street did not make sense, but it did help us save an architectural masterpiece, the Art Deco Hunter Street T.H. & B. Station.

I don't think any of us can argue with that!

Now as the need for public transit accelerates rapidly, two stations on two different lines can work.

I still think that a downtown of our size only needs a single central transit hub. But if we have to have two, I'll take that over the current situation of "almost nothing". However if we DO end up with two, the link between them needs to be REALLY convenient, REALLY fast, and REALLY free.

... This line connects with the CP/GO trackage between Walnut South and Wentworth and could have provided GO train service from Hunter to the burgeoning residential areas on the south Mountain, with stations at Mohawk, Rymal Road, and the Airport. The right of way is about a mile east of the Airport and may be considered for a light rail service to the Hunter Street Station. ...

This is all great news and I am thrilled to hear that the city is considering upgrades to the rail links. This is a major key to a bright future for us.

Bob, is there any way that we (the forumers here and the people we know "offline") can influence the coming decision of LRT vs BRT? For many of us, the choice for LRT is a no brainer considering the province is putting up the capital. Capital expense is the ONLY downside to LRT, and Hamilton is poised to be on the receiving end of a big chunk of that -- we should insist on LRT and reap the benefits for decades to come.

It is time we stopped being mickey-mouse about this. If mississauga can get LRT so can we for crying out loud.

I am absolutely certain that if we ask for LRT from metrolinx we will get it -- but it's going to be up to us to ask!

[Bob Bratina]

Thanks for the kind words of welcome.
This is a particularly helpful site for me, in part due to the generally high quality and thoughtfulness of the submissions. I hope from time to time I can provide some helpful insight. The climate at City Hall has changed somewhat with regard to the Downtown thanks to the new regime. Within a few months I hope to be able to announce some significant projects that relate to your favourite topics on this site, if meetings taking place over the next few weeks go well. Our Downtown office goes through an overwhelming amount of messages, requests for service, etc. so it's hard to blog on everything I find of interest here but I do take it all in. Thanks again for the very useful input toward building a better City.

[FairHamilton]

Btw Chris is my real name, just incase you were wondering..

But does your last name really begin with 'k" :)

[coalminecanary]

Within a few months I hope to be able to announce some significant projects that relate to your favourite topics on this site, if meetings taking place over the next few weeks go well.

Aghh, the suspense... you're killing us here!

[DHLawrence]

Good to see politicians hanging around here. Some of the people in the Vancouver board say that politicians visit there; why should they be the only ones?

Now to get Doug Craig and Carl Zehr to sign up to the Waterloo Region board...

[DC83]

Within a few months I hope to be able to announce some significant projects that relate to your favourite topics on this site, if meetings taking place over the next few weeks go well.

Sweet! Can't wait!! Thanks, Bob!

I think this may answer your anonymity Q as well... some ppl on here get good 'leads', so when they reveal them on here they don't want people knowing who's leaking the info. Makes sense, kinda.

My name's David, and DC are indeed my innitials and yes, I actually do live in Corktown! haha Ooh, sorry, Olde Corktowne ;) hahaha

[raisethehammer]

sadly, I can't reveal my name...too many obvious links to some of my sources....but I DO live downtown in the Strathcona neighbourhood and LOVE IT!

[the dude]

i legally changed my name to 'the dude' years ago, so there you go.

i can't wait for more good news to start rolling in. it's almost more exciting when you're away because you know things will be different when you come home...kinda like christmas.

[SteelTown]

Here's the Rapid Transit Feasibility Study!!!

Start reading bitches!

http://www.myhamilton.ca/NR/rdonlyres/5A27FE21-49F5-4AEE-AE7D-CD3F7B88B8BE/0/Apr14PW08043.pdf

[raisethehammer]

waahooo!!!! off we go.

more info:

http://raisethehammer.org/blog.asp?id=969#comment-21161

[Jon Dalton]

Wow!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!. I've been away for several weeks riding the rails heavy and light in other countries, and I'm excited at what's transpired back home. If there's anything I learned through seeing some of the great systems in action, its that LRT here is beyond a no-brainer. It would require a determined mind to keep LRT out of Hamilton.

At the time that the HTMP was completed, it was envisioned that Bus Rapid Transit (BRT) lines would be used in Hamilton, with the potential to move to Light Rail Transit (LRT) in the long term. The June 2007 MoveOntario 2020 announcement has allowed for accelerated rapid transit planning in Hamilton. The MoveOntario 2020 funding may also make LRT in the short term more feasible than it appeared in February 2007 when the HTMP was presented to Public Works Committee.

[go_leafs_go02]

so 1.1 billion estimated for LRT on the B-Line and an A-Line, and a tunnel would have to be constructed, where the A-Line would descend down by Mohawk college and come out near James St. somewhere, as the grade can only be 5%, instead of the 10-11% grade James Mountain Rd. has now.

EDIT. just completed reading that document. Seeing an official plan somewhat on the city's website has got me excited.

Please let it be LRT. Please!!! And i hope with this is that most mountain buses can terminate somewhere and connect to the A-Line at Mohawk College or something. You would save alot of bus fuel by keeping mountain buses always on top, and having limited bus access from top to bottom. I know the 21, 33, 34, 35 all go within 1 km of Mohawk College, so those could be truncated there, and in result, a higher frequency would be given as the route distances would be a fair bit shorter.

[mishap]

Please let it be LRT. Please!!! And i hope with this is that most mountain buses can terminate somewhere and connect to the A-Line at Mohawk College or something. You would save alot of bus fuel by keeping mountain buses always on top, and having limited bus access from top to bottom. I know the 21, 33, 34, 35 all go within 1 km of Mohawk College, so those could be truncated there, and in result, a higher frequency would be given as the route distances would be a fair bit shorter.

You know, the HSR is already considering truncating a couple routes at Mohawk College when the A-Line starts. That LRT would need to be a high-frequency service if most buses stopped there, but there wouldn't be much of a need to continue all of those trains down Upper James to the airport. I could see some of those trains being short-turned at the College, or maybe at Lime Ridge Mall, which leads to the next item...

Notice that Mohawk is mentioned as at least a partial corridor? That's great. I just didn't like the Linc idea, because it only connects with every second route.

If both LRT lines are built, I could see massive changes to the bus network. That's probably enough for a separate thread in itself.

[SteelTown]

Love how the report supports transit median along Main St W from Paradise to McMaster. Currently it's a cement median with young trees.

Wish the report contained a map showing the route and proposed ROW to make it a little easier to understand.

Looks like A-Line will cost more than B-Line. I would support LRT for B-Line and BRT for A-Line. For the B-Line I would include the transit median along Upper James from Fennell to the Airport like the report suggests.

[raisethehammer]

I wonder if a new thread should be started specifically for the topic of LRT/BRT.

Here's a good overview of the report:

http://hamiltonlightrail.com/article/analysis_feasibility_study_biased_against_light_rail

[SteelTown]

^ Done made a Rapid Transit thread, figured it was the best title for both LRT and BRT.

[mishap]

Looks like A-Line will cost more than B-Line. I would support LRT for B-Line and BRT for A-Line. For the B-Line I would include the transit median along Upper James from Fennell to the Airport like the report suggests.

Eventually, the A-Line should be LRT, at least a tunnel portion to cross the escarpment. All it takes is one nasty winter event (like freezing rain) to cripple the A-Line. Have you seen how those artics accelerate on slippery roads? Not well. I think we would agree that any LRT track (even the tunnel) still has to be able to handle a bus in the event of train breakdowns, track repairs, etc.

And to rth, maybe a thread covering LRT/BRT and the bus network changes that might directly result from it.

[SteelTown]

Wow also Public Works want the city to spend $3,200,000 for...

"replacement Radio Communications solution and automated next stop passenger information;"

Yes GPS on buses and voice bus stop announcements. Awesome! HSR is really making some serious improvements!

http://www.myhamilton.ca/NR/rdonlyres/57BA88E9-2C8D-491C-8C02-717A21810C1E/0/Apr14PW08038.pdf

"It is expected by the OHRC that Hamilton will have system-wide bus stop announcement, manual or automated prior to year end. The radio system allows voice communications between HSR dispatch and Bus Operators which is a critical safety and security requirement. The radio system includes GPS/AVL functionality which is critical to individual bus communication in the event of an emergency. The GPS/AVL functionality inherent in the radio system allows automated stop announcement to be readily adopted."

[RePinion]

The analysis on the hamiltonlightrail site is excellent. However, it also makes clear that all the data is shamelessly being skewed to promote BRT at the expense of LRT. There is clearly a powerful - and probably irresistible - predisposition towards the BRT option. It's a foregone conclusion. The city is almost assuredly not going to choose light rail, unless some powerful white knight (and I can't imagine who that would be, in this province) intervenes to promote it. LRT is probably not going to happen. This is really the last straw in terms of stupid decisions in this city. If they choose BRT, I'm moving to Toronto.

[HAMRetrofit]

If they choose LRT I will be so jealous and will be moving to Hamilton.

Considering the number of disabled inbreds that have final say over this I hope they have not decided against LRT by only looking at costs.

[matt602]

I'm glad they will be doing stop announcements before the end of the year. This will also pave the way for bus stops with estimated arrival times like VIVA (and what TTC plans to do in the future). Doesn't need to be at all stops but definitely at any major terminus.

[RePinion]

If they choose LRT I will be so jealous and will be moving to Hamilton.

Considering the number of disabled inbreds that have final say over this I hope they have not decided against LRT by only looking at costs.

If Hamilton chooses LRT it would mean that for the first time in about fifty years we would actually be infected by productive progressive thinking. If Hamilton does choose LRT this city will hold an unbelievable amount of promise. If they choose BRT, they're setting us back at least twenty years. It wouldn't be worth staying here ...

[matt602]

Also for the first time in 50 years, the Hamilton Street Railway would actually be what it's named again :P

[flar]

The LRT vs BRT outcome will greatly affect my decision on whether to stay in Hamilton as well.

[go_leafs_go02]

The LRT vs BRT outcome will greatly affect my decision on whether to stay in Hamilton as well.

I don't plan on sticking around in this city, but a LRT, where we push it full-forward would be the number #1 project I would like to work on when I finish my schooling in Transportation engineering. We go BRT, blah, I won't be impressed at all. I'll be out of this city pretty quickly I think.

[raisethehammer]

Let the education battle begin. This will be quite a challenge to convince Hamiltonians of the benefits of LRT. All they hear is "less car lanes" and "lots of money for something I'll never use" ....their conclusion? spend as little as possible and use the rest to fill my potholes.

The Spec is the trump card in this. If they do their research on EcDev spinoff and get on the LRT train (no pun intented) this city will go for it. If they whine and cry about cars and wasted money on a social service (transit) people won't go for it.

Sharpen your pencils folks.

[Gurnett71]

Although I wouldn't be using the LRT in the near future (I work in Burlington), I am all for it. The economic spinoffs are too great to pass up. Additionally, this would allow for density intensification along the LRT route, which would fulfil the vision 2020 statement/Green Belt legislation.

Has a proper cost-benefit analysis been done on the LRT?? From what I have read, I have only seen the potential capital and running costs of a LRT--no economic benefits have been detailed.

[raisethehammer]

more good news about GO Station at Hunter Street:

http://900chml.com/Channels/Reg/NewsLocalGeneral/Story.aspx?ID=1004082

[SteelTown]

Awesome!

I'm so pumped with the direction HSR is taking. Excited to hear with my own ears the lady calling each of the stops apporaching, I'm a sucker for crap like that lol.

[I, Sinclair]

If they choose BRT, they're setting us back at least twenty years. It wouldn't be worth staying here ...

The LRT vs BRT outcome will greatly affect my decision on whether to stay in Hamilton as well.

Oh, come on now. This is just the negative case of the rescue fantasy. LRT/Harry Stinson/Lister restoration/etc is not going to rescue hamilton from it's problems. A city is a system, and yes, LRT looks to be a very good leverage point to raise the performance of the system. But without addressing the systemic problems Hamilton faces, it will be a wasted opportunity. A light rail train full of hobos and walmart greeters is not any better than a bus (no disrespect to hobos).

In a metro area of 700k, there isn't even a market for my labour, and I am forced to drive to an office park in Brampton. All I require in terms of infrastructure is a network connection and a dry place to put my minions. Yet not one post industrial company has even bothered to look at downtown hamilton as a location. This is the nut we have to crack to keep people in Hamilton.

LRT, BRT or autorickshaw, without a 21st century labour market, I will be hard pressed to stay in Hamilton in the long run.

[RePinion]

Oh, come on now. This is just the negative case of the rescue fantasy. LRT/Harry Stinson/Lister restoration/etc is not going to rescue hamilton from it's problems. A city is a system, and yes, LRT looks to be a very good leverage point to raise the performance of the system. But without addressing the systemic problems Hamilton faces, it will be a wasted opportunity. A light rail train full of hobos and walmart greeters is not any better than a bus (no disrespect to hobos).

In a metro area of 700k, there isn't even a market for my labour, and I am forced to drive to an office park in Brampton. All I require in terms of infrastructure is a network connection and a dry place to put my minions. Yet not one post industrial company has even bothered to look at downtown hamilton as a location. This is the nut we have to crack to keep people in Hamilton.

LRT, BRT or autorickshaw, without a 21st century labour market, I will be hard pressed to stay in Hamilton in the long run.

"Rescue fantasy" is pushing it. It's more an expression of intense frustration with an obtuse city administration which consistently appears to favour certain agendas over the interests of the city at large. Is this anything new in municipal politics? Obviously not. But other cities, even ones of similar size and wealth to Hamilton, still manage to get good works done. I think informed, community-minded Hamiltonians are exceedingly tired of having carrots constantly being dangled in front of them, invariably to be snatched away. I don't think Harry Stinson or a restored Lister will save the city. I've said as much before. Nevertheless, one cannot deny the symbolic weight with which the Connaught and Lister projects as well as the LRT project are fraught. They are - accurately or inaccurately - implicitly taken to be barometrically representative of the progress of the downtown at large. People understandably want to see a momentum forming, but all we seem to get are more delays and prevarications.

I couldn't agree more with the proposition that what the downtown really needs is more of a business presence. Even if the city does see residential growth in the downtown area, this will not be a panacea for the all city's
woes because, let's face it, Hamilton has largely ceased to be a city of economic opportunity. I would love to see the office towers filled up and even new edifices built. Obviously there must be a reason for businesses to relocate to the core, though. If the land is ultimately cheaper in the suburbs and a given company's employee base already lives there (as is so often the case with white collar firms), what incentive is there to move downtown? If the employees (and more importantly, executive decision makers) want to live downtown, maybe then there will be at least something to encourage firms to relocate there too.

[raisethehammer]

Oh, come on now. This is just the negative case of the rescue fantasy. LRT/Harry Stinson/Lister restoration/etc is not going to rescue hamilton from it's problems. A city is a system, and yes, LRT looks to be a very good leverage point to raise the performance of the system. But without addressing the systemic problems Hamilton faces, it will be a wasted opportunity. A light rail train full of hobos and walmart greeters is not any better than a bus (no disrespect to hobos).

In a metro area of 700k, there isn't even a market for my labour, and I am forced to drive to an office park in Brampton. All I require in terms of infrastructure is a network connection and a dry place to put my minions. Yet not one post industrial company has even bothered to look at downtown hamilton as a location. This is the nut we have to crack to keep people in Hamilton.

LRT, BRT or autorickshaw, without a 21st century labour market, I will be hard pressed to stay in Hamilton in the long run.


BRT or rickshaw won't draw 21st Century companies downtown (autorickshaw is the name of a sweet Canadian band).
LRT has the potential to lay the framework that can enable us to draw those companies. You have a vested interest in seeing LRT happen here. Without it and it's spinoff EcDev, you too will be 'out of here' if we don't go for LRT.

[Berklon]

more good news about GO Station at Hunter Street:

http://900chml.com/Channels/Reg/NewsLocalGeneral/Story.aspx?ID=1004082

That's definitely good news, especially when trains are cancelled from Hamilton because they can't get here in time for whatever reason. I was pissed off this morning when I showed up for the 6:34 train that never arrived and wound up sitting for 30 minutes on the 7:04 waiting for it's departure. This happens often and I hate losing 30 minutes of sleep for nothing.

But I have to ask... 6 mill for a "layover facility"? It's just a spot for the train to stay overnight, isn't it? Is it that price because they had to buy the land for it?

[SteelTown]

It'll be a downtown yard, more rail tracks will be made to keep GO Trains overnight and off of the main rail track to let CP continue using the line.

[I, Sinclair]

BRT or rickshaw won't draw 21st Century companies downtown (autorickshaw is the name of a sweet Canadian band).
LRT has the potential to lay the framework that can enable us to draw those companies. You have a vested interest in seeing LRT happen here. Without it and it's spinoff EcDev, you too will be 'out of here' if we don't go for LRT.

I'm not sure LRT will either. It will certainly improve the quality of life for Hamiltonians, probably allow great stretches of downtown to gentrify, but it's just one piece of the puzzle.

I'm very excited by the thought of LRT in Hamilton. I have emailed my councillor repeatedly. I really hope it happens.

[RePinion]

I'm not sure LRT will either. It will certainly improve the quality of life for Hamiltonians, probably allow great stretches of downtown to gentrify, but it's just one piece of the puzzle.


Yes, but as RTH judiciously said, it does have "the potential to lay the framework that can enable us to draw those companies".

It is only one piece of the puzzle. I happen to believe that it is potentially a very central one.

[I, Sinclair]

Nevertheless, one cannot deny the symbolic weight with which the Connaught and Lister projects as well as the LRT project are fraught. They are - accurately or inaccurately - implicitly taken to be barometrically representative of the progress of the downtown at large. People understandably want to see a momentum forming, but all we seem to get are more delays and prevarications.

Agreed, the perception of positive momentum would be greatly increased by an LRT project.


If the land is ultimately cheaper in the suburbs and a given company's employee base already lives there (as is so often the case with white collar firms), what incentive is there to move downtown? If the employees (and more importantly, executive decision makers) want to live downtown, maybe then there will be at least something to encourage firms to relocate there too.

Suburban business parks are cheaper on the bottom line only because there are huge external costs that are not included. Transportation costs are moved from rate paying businesses to the employees and servicing costs are low on capital structures that are probably only 10 years old and therefore haven't required any lifetime repairs.

As an anecdotal data point, I have very rarely encountered colleagues who worked in the same suburb that they lived in (in a career encompassing the great arc of 905 from Markham to Hamilton and points in between).

I predict that in 20 years, it will be more expensive, bottom line, to locate in a 30 year old Mississaugan box than a 130yo downtown Hamilton building.

Anyway, this has precious little to do with LRT. But I've typed it now, so too bad :)

plus a banana (removed banana. lord, that was annoying)

[I, Sinclair]

Yes, but as RTH judiciously said, it does have "the potential to lay the framework that can enable us to draw those companies".

It is only one piece of the puzzle. I happen to believe that it is potentially a very central one.

I just don't see the causal link. What am I missing?

[RePinion]

Agreed, the perception of positive momentum would be greatly increased by an LRT project.



Suburban business parks are cheaper on the bottom line only because there are huge external costs that are not included. Transportation costs are moved from rate paying businesses to the employees and servicing costs are low on capital structures that are probably only 10 years old and therefore haven't required any lifetime repairs.

As an anecdotal data point, I have very rarely encountered colleagues who worked in the same suburb that they lived in (in a career encompassing the great arc of 905 from Markham to Hamilton and points in between).

I predict that in 20 years, it will be more expensive, bottom line, to locate in a 30 year old Mississaugan box than a 130yo downtown Hamilton building.

Anyway, this has precious little to do with LRT. But I've typed it now, so too bad :)

plus a banana :banana:

I would actually second your anecdotal point with one of my own. I am well acquainted through business ties with a lot of the managers who work at Ford in Oakville. A good many do live in Oakville but a greater proportion live in Burlington. This however is almost entirely related to the differential in housing prices which once existed between the two suburbs (it has since narrowed if not disappeared). I can't vouch for too many other businesses or suburbs, but I do know a good many people who both live and work in Mississauga (but of course it is an enormous suburb).

I think you're right on when you refer to the externalization of costs possible with suburban office parks. This is a major obstacle to downtown development but one which may eventually be overcome by obvious external factors.

As for LRT, few major businesses will relocate to the core just because an LRT line might be there, granted. However, in the long run, when (if?) the suburban business model becomes unsustainable (economically, not environmentally - it already is that), businesses may be forced to look more favourably at denser communities with high order transit options to get employees to work quickly and efficiently. LRT is also likely to have much lower operating costs than bus transport in the long term, which means, by extension, lower tax costs passed on to businesses operating in the core (or wherever else in the city). Obviously, the connections are tenuous and still very much theoretical at this point, and the most important thing LRT may do in the long run is to improve the image of the city whether to businesses or potential residents or visitors ...

[FairHamilton]

more good news about GO Station at Hunter Street:

http://900chml.com/Channels/Reg/NewsLocalGeneral/Story.aspx?ID=1004082

This is great, great news. I think this might be one step closer to Hamilton getting a rush hour express train to Union Station in the morning and back in the evening. Lets hope so, and lets hope for 2 express trains.

[SteelTown]

Ministry of Transportation

Improvements to B-Line King-Main Corridor - $17,400,000 - Received
Improvements to A-Line James-Upper James Corridor - $12,400,000 - Received
Roads & Bridges Infrastructure Program - $8,806,309 - Receive by June 30, 2008
GO platform - $3,000,000 - Received
GO layover facility - $6,000,000 - Received
Transit Capital Grant - $7,522,653 - Received

Metrolinx

Bicycle Related Infrastructure - $190,987 - Received

Total investment to Hamilton's Infrastructure from the Provincial government this year = $55,319,949

Public Transit alone = $46,513,640

For everything including Lister Block funding, Pedestrian bridge, social housing, etc the provincial government has given Hamilton $94,052,831.

I'm glad I voted for the Liberals lol.

[Millstone]

thespec.com's poll is in favour of LRT right now.

[FairHamilton]

In a metro area of 700k, there isn't even a market for my labour, and I am forced to drive to an office park in Brampton. All I require in terms of infrastructure is a network connection and a dry place to put my minions. Yet not one post industrial company has even bothered to look at downtown hamilton as a location. This is the nut we have to crack to keep people in Hamilton.

I totally agree, and this is a major problem that Hamilton faces.

I'm assuming from other threads, many condos in Hamilton are a tough sell. Besides some being of a questionable quality/design the reason they don't sell (or aren't developed, as seen in many loan cancellations today), is because downtown condo owners work close to where they live.

I work for a software company in Toronto with 60+ employees. Employees are predominantly in their 20's and 30's and either walk to work (the President walks from his Rogers Centre area condo), bike, or take a short transit ride to the office. Next to no one drives to the office, and many of my co-workers don't even own cars.

Hamilton should be actively recruiting companies like (maybe a little smaller) the one I work for and offering them incentives to move to downtown Hamilton. Think about 5 or 6, or 10+ companies with 15 - 50 employees in their 20's and 30's doing software/high tech in downtown Hamilton. Think of the spin offs. These smallish companies would spawn other software/high tech companies and they all want a central downtown setting with old character offices, beam & brick, walk, bike, transit to work, places to grab breakfast, lunch and a drink (or two) after work.

We have the following software/high tech companies in my office building at Spadina & Adelaide, Intelex, Codesta, Onerail, Interwork (Toronto), and that's just off the top of my head there are others. Also, RL Solutions and Indigo are just around the corner.

[flar]

If the city chooses BRT over LRT I will take it as a sign that the city is not serious about realizing its potential. I want Hamilton to realize its potential, but I don't want to spend my entire life waiting for it to happen when there are so many other cities out there where things are happening now. I think it's a key piece of the revitalization puzzle and a very symbolic move for the city. That's why it will factor into my personal plans.

[miketoronto]

Fairhamilton,
I would say Hamilton should go even further then just promoting downtown for high-tech companies. Hamilton should be forming a plan to make downtown Hamilton the second largest business district in the Greater Toronto-Hamilton area. That would so drive up transit use in Hamilton and also condo sales.

[FairHamilton]

I'm glad I voted for the Liberals lol.

Now it's committed, if all that money is actually spent I might vote for them in the next election. :D

[SteelTown]

^ I highly doubt the city would send back the cheque lol

[Berklon]

This is great, great news. I think this might be one step closer to Hamilton getting a rush hour express train to Union Station in the morning and back in the evening. Lets hope so, and lets hope for 2 express trains.

Express from Hamilton to Union Station with no stops in between? That wouldn't be an effecient use of a train. The best case scenario would be doing only the major stops... Hamilton -- Burlington -- Oakville -- Toronto (and back the other way in the evening).

[FairHamilton]

Fairhamilton,
I would say Hamilton should go even further then just promoting downtown for high-tech companies. Hamilton should be forming a plan to make downtown Hamilton the second largest business district in the Greater Toronto-Hamilton area. That would so drive up transit use in Hamilton and also condo sales.

And create a more positive urban setting.

I agree, but I think they have to target small up-and-comers, because they employee people who embrace the urban environment vs. the suburban environment. Larger companies quite often have older workforces that gravitate towards living in the suburbs and commuting.

A mix of urban people and suburban commuters is good, but I think Hamilton needs to focus on getting the downtowners first.

[the dude]

so 1.1 billion estimated for LRT on the B-Line and an A-Line, and a tunnel would have to be constructed, where the A-Line would descend down by Mohawk college and come out near James St. somewhere, as the grade can only be 5%, instead of the 10-11% grade James Mountain Rd. has now.

it could be done for much less $$ which is part of the concern so many have about this report. the idea of tunnelling through the escarpment is absurd and unnecessary, when a line could be routed up the claremont access. anyone can see that, except the author of this report apparently. he seems bent on making LRT seem unaffordable and many will take the bait.

it'll be a tough fight but with a little luck we may see it come to fruition despite all the ignorance at city hall.

[mishap]

it could be done for much less $$ which is part of the concern so many have about this report. the idea of tunnelling through the escarpment is absurd and unnecessary, when a line could be routed up the claremont access. anyone can see that, except the author of this report apparently. he seems bent on making LRT seem unaffordable and many will take the bait.

I've considered the Claremont option as well. The LRT line could use the centre lanes, but those lanes would level off as the access continues to rise above it. Then the LRT would connect to a realigned W5th ramp (which wouldn't really be a ramp to W5th anymore) to pass over James Mtn. Rd and run alongside W5th to Mohawk College. With some modifications to bridges, you could maintain two traffic lanes each way on the Claremont and keep that extra upbound lane near the top for climbing.

Another feature of using the Claremont Access is that the A-Line could share track with the B-Line in the core. It's doable whether the LRT runs along Main or King, or even along alternate choices such as Hunter or Jackson. James St South can still be covered by local bus service.

That would be a lot cheaper than a tunnel through the escarpment. Don't get me wrong, I would love the line to be busy enough to warrant a tunnel. But if it were that busy, should it really be emerging from that tunnel onto James St?

[DC83]

more good news about GO Station at Hunter Street:

http://900chml.com/Channels/Reg/NewsLocalGeneral/Story.aspx?ID=1004082


GO to boost morning service

April 12, 2008
Daniel Nolan
The Hamilton Spectator
(Apr 12, 2008)

http://media.hamiltonspectator.com/images/c7/ea/8eabcb8b435fbe641fc82cf2bad9.jpeg
Gary Yokoyama, the Hamilton Spectator

Hamilton will have one additional morning commuter train by the end of the year.

The GO Transit board yesterday approved awarding a $6.1-million contract to a Markham company to build a new train layover facility east of the Hamilton GO Centre on Hunter Street West.

The facility will keep four 12-car GO trains in Hamilton each night, ending the shuttling of them back to the GO yard in Mimico, and allow GO to add one more morning train to Union Station in Toronto.

The facility, with realigned tracks and a maintenance building, is set for completion in spring 2009, but service is to start in December.

Councillor Bob Bratina, a member of the GO board, said the move will also end delays and cancellations of morning GO trains from Hamilton because sometimes the shuttling between Mimico and Hamilton was interrupted by freight train movement.

"This is great," said Bratina, an unabashed railway fan. "It's a further investment in rail passenger service in Hamilton."

He noted the province recently committed $3 million to build a GO train platform and ticket kiosk near the former CN station on James Street, which is now the LIUNA banquet centre. It will be used by GO and Via trains and might be the jump-start to GO train service to Grimsby, St. Catharines and Niagara Falls on a regular basis.

From the Hamilton GO Centre, there are now three GO trains to Union Station in the morning and four return trains in the evening.

The contract for the overnight storage yard has been awarded to Dagmar Construction Inc. and construction is set to begin next month. GO looked at six locations for the facility, between Kay Drage Park near Highway 403 and Vinemount in Upper Stoney Creek, before sticking, in July, 2006, with its preferred downtown station site.

GO says it took into account residents' concerns about noise and air quality. The trains will be parked parallel and in pairs to minimize impact. They will be parked on the CP Rail line between Catharine Street South and Baillie Street.

Meanwhile, Niagara politicians are expected to put a full-court press on Premier Dalton McGuinty and his cabinet for GO train service next week when they head en masse to Queen's Park. The week of April 21 will be Niagara Week at the legislature and GO train service will be one of the main items Niagara politicians will be lobbying the government for, Welland Regional Councillor Cindy Forster said yesterday.

[go_leafs_go02]

So really.

Where do you see Hamilton in the next year? Like April 12, 2009. Will construction be starting on a new LRT? or will it go nowhere?

[DC83]

Apr 2009 -- Enviro Asses Complete (thanks for Dalton's new law), Bearocratic BS will not. When was RT construction supposed to begin anyway? 2010?

[SteelTown]

My prediction....

Hamilton and Toronto wins 2015 Pan Am Games in 2009. Immediately after that Province will fund Phase 1 LRT from McMaster to Downtown probably be completed by 2012. After that funding for Phase 2 maybe around 2013 for Downtown to Eastgate Square and complete hopefully by 2015.

At the same time GO Train to run from Hamilton to Niagara Falls to link the entire Golden Horseshoe region for the Pan Am Games, since the entire Golden Horseshoe will be involved.

[SteelTown]

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b2/Bonaducci1/GOlayover2.jpg

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b2/Bonaducci1/GOlayover3.jpg

[matt602]

I'm betting they'll be demolishing that building there on the corner or buying it and using it as a maintenance facility.

[JT Jacobs]

If the city chooses BRT over LRT I will take it as a sign that the city is not serious about realizing its potential. I want Hamilton to realize its potential, but I don't want to spend my entire life waiting for it to happen when there are so many other cities out there where things are happening now. I think it's a key piece of the revitalization puzzle and a very symbolic move for the city. That's why it will factor into my personal plans.

I have to agree: LRT signifies so much about Hamilton's willingness to rejuvenate its own core. If LRT is not implemented, I can't help but take that as a significant sign that Hamilton is content with wallowing in its own mediocrity.

Odds are that if BRT is selected over LRT, I will relocate to Toronto instead of Hamilton, regardless of the cheaper real estate in Hamilton. I'm tired of the disappointment. It has to happen now.

[mishap]

I have to agree: LRT signifies so much about Hamilton's willingness to rejuvenate its own core. If LRT is not implemented, I can't help but take that as a significant sign that Hamilton is content with wallowing in its own mediocrity.

While I agree with that in general, I would take a well-functioning BRT system over a poor LRT system. If the city cuts too many corners in building an LRT line, simply to save money, we may wish we never sunk the money into rails. What we have to do is make sure we get a good LRT system.

Now let the arguments about what is "good" begin... :-)

[DC83]

I'm betting they'll be demolishing that building there on the corner or buying it and using it as a maintenance facility.

well the tracks are actually elevated on a hill from that building.
On the subject, I hate that bldg. It's such an eyesoar! So, if they can fig out a way to use this plot and demo that bldg, I'm allll for it! haha

[miketoronto]

[B][SIZE="5"]
Meanwhile, Niagara politicians are expected to put a full-court press on Premier Dalton McGuinty and his cabinet for GO train service next week when they head en masse to Queen's Park. The week of April 21 will be Niagara Week at the legislature and GO train service will be one of the main items Niagara politicians will be lobbying the government for, Welland Regional Councillor Cindy Forster said yesterday.

Why does Niagara want GO service when they have much faster VIA RAIL?
I don't understand this. People do not want to sit on a GO TRAN for over two hours to get to Toronto, when VIA RAIL does it in like just over an hour.

GO TRAINS from Hamilton are already very slow, and the car and GO BUS can easily beat the train, except during peak traffic conditions.

If I was Niagara, I would stick with VIA. Niagara is just getting to far out, for commuter rail to serve.

[DC83]

Why does Niagara want GO service when they have much faster VIA RAIL?
I don't understand this. People do not want to sit on a GO TRAN for over two hours to get to Toronto, when VIA RAIL does it in like just over an hour.

GO TRAINS from Hamilton are already very slow, and the car and GO BUS can easily beat the train, except during peak traffic conditions.

If I was Niagara, I would stick with VIA. Niagara is just getting to far out, for commuter rail to serve.

I don't see any problems with trying to connect the Greater Golden Horseshoe Area with public transit at all.

Maybe there are people in St Catharines who want to live Downtown Hamilton but can't due to commuter issues. So this will give them (and others) and chance to move around the region, hassle-free, while promoting a healthy lifestyle.

In the future, KW will also be connected, and with their RT line, the GGHA will become this mecca for good public transit.

McGuinty doesn't want Hamilton as a 'layover' anymore... it is now being pushed as a transit HUB for GO. So why not involve Niagara. I appreciate that the money could be used elsewhere (more tracks, electrifying tracks, etc)... but why not take advantage of the current Eco-Friendly 'Fad' Canadians are all about and wake everyone up to public transit.

Niagara has probably the worst public transit system I have ever experienced in my life. Giving them GO will just be a great boost of confidence for the region, and most importantly, connect them to the two Hubs of the GGHA: Hamilton & Toronto. It's a win-win, Mike.

[HAMRetrofit]

Why does Niagara want GO service when they have much faster VIA RAIL?
I don't understand this. People do not want to sit on a GO TRAN for over two hours to get to Toronto, when VIA RAIL does it in like just over an hour.

GO TRAINS from Hamilton are already very slow, and the car and GO BUS can easily beat the train, except during peak traffic conditions.

If I was Niagara, I would stick with VIA. Niagara is just getting to far out, for commuter rail to serve.

About 1% are going to Toronto if they are commuting. They will be commuting to Hamilton and the Western GTA. I think the main feature of GO is to promote tourism through a more consistent link between Toronto and Hamilton and Niagara. VIA cannot offer the frequency of service that GO can. I think GO service will be in addition VIA anyways.

Keep in mind that 4% of Niagara region commuters are headed to Hamilton to work. The number of commuters driving is 85%. Peak period road trips for Niagara residents into Hamilton and the Western GTA is 185,600. This traffic needs to be alleviated to increase trade efficiency with the US. Keep in mind this is our highest volume trade corridor.

[markbarbera]

Dagmar Construction won the construction contract for the Hunter GO Centre expansion. I believe the ugly blue roof over the bus bays is on the way out (thank God!), with an additional track and passenger platform built in its stead, just south of the existing track and platform. James and John rail bridges are already at a width to accomodate the extra track. The track will extend eastward to Baille (almost Walnut), and will be used as a layover track along with the existing southern rail which is currently used to layover one GO train.

[Berklon]

Why does Niagara want GO service when they have much faster VIA RAIL?
I don't understand this. People do not want to sit on a GO TRAN for over two hours to get to Toronto, when VIA RAIL does it in like just over an hour.

GO TRAINS from Hamilton are already very slow, and the car and GO BUS can easily beat the train, except during peak traffic conditions.

If I was Niagara, I would stick with VIA. Niagara is just getting to far out, for commuter rail to serve.

You're assuming noone from Niagara wants/needs to come to Hamilton, or vice-versa.

I just looked up on the Via Rail website and they state that it'll take 1h 50m for a VIA trip from NF to Toronto, and a one-way ticket costs almost $35. VIA has stop-overs that add to the commuting time.

With GO service it would probably take only 20 minutes longer to go from NF to Toronto (compared to VIA) and the cost would probably be around 2x the price of a trip from Hamilton to Toronto ($9 x 2 = $18). It's worth an extra 20 minutes commute to save $15+. Imagine the amount of money being saved only a monthly basis.