[Calgarian]

With all the discussion about Vancouver, Seattle and Portland in the Calgary construction thread lately, I figured it's time to start a new thread so as not to bog down the construction discussion.

So, how does Calgary stack up against other cities on the continent? I think costal and big lake cities have an advantage over us with setting, but what about places like Minneapolis, Houston or Denver?

[240glt]

I thought this wasn't allowed... and you know what it's going to turn into.

[ExcaliburKid]

If you're talking about sprawl, then you're well on your way to Houston/Minneapolis-St. Paul. Denver I could understand based solely on location.

[Calgarian]

Not sprawl, just how well the city is built up, how nice the buildings are, what kind of atmosphere the city gives off. What are we doing compared to how other cities do them, what works and what doesn't.

And if people use constructive crticizm and don't get stupid, this thread will be fine.

[Kevin_foster]

^ How about posting it in a non-albertan thread to get the input of people that actually live outside of the province?

[240glt]

And if people use constructive crticizm and don't get stupid, this thread will be fine

:haha:

Well before this bad boy turns into another NHL type thread I'll say that my favorite city of the 1 million population variety is Milwaukee Wisconsin. It's the people, the music, the mixture of 18th & 19th century architecture with modern, the cleanliness & the beer.

It's not possible to really compare that city to Calgary. Milwaukee downtown is undergoing a bit of a renaissance, and has more to work with in terms of the old restorable buildings, the canals and pedestrian walkways. Calgary, is put simply, too new for that kind of turnaround. Milwaukee has a giant elevated freeway that lands right downtown and kind-of splits the city in two... that is a drawback but the city is using the area under the freeway as a vehicle and pedestrian corridor... but it feels contrived. Although Calgary is split by the rail line on the southside it's not as noticeable a barrier.

I dunno. Calgary is decent... Other cities are decent... what else do you want to know ?

[Calgarian]

I was thing this would be a discussion for Calgary forumers to see what works in other cities, and whether it would work here, and vice versa.

[240glt]

I was thing this would be a discussion for Calgary forumers

Well maybe you should have kept this buried in the Calgary Const. forum then

...to see what works in other cities, and whether it would work here, and vice versa.

"what" works ? What is "it" ? Ask more specific questions & you will get more difinitive responses.

[Deepstar]

If you're talking about sprawl, then you're well on your way to Houston/Minneapolis-St. Paul. Denver I could understand based solely on location.

Correction, well on our way to Houston/Minneapolis-St. Paul/Edmonton, and any other NA city that isn't on a coast.

[wild wild west]

I think Calgary's strong point in comparison to most other North American cities is its downtown core. We have a very strong downtown for our size. In terms of all the statistics, our downtown stacks up well against a good number of North American urban areas that are several times our size. However, I would like to see downtown evolve into something more ecclectic. Better quality open spaces, more colour and light (LED's on buildings are a good start, but we have a ways to go), more creative architecture, better massing, and more of a mix of uses (more blending between the office core and residential, for example).

[Calgarian]

Well maybe you should have kept this buried in the Calgary Const. forum then



"what" works ? What is "it" ? Ask more specific questions & you will get more difinitive responses.

just stick to the Edmonton thread. It's pretty obvious what kind of discussion I'm trying to start.

[Edmonchuck]

Calgary is a great Calgary.

As for comparing it to other cities, it is an extremely livable city as long as you have a car. There is a lot to do - but these activities are not much different than you will find in Minneapolis, Houston, or Denver. All have "proud sports histories". All brag about some level of agrarian roots. All have big fairs to be proud of. All have traffic issues. All have economic opportunities for their citizens. All are growing and thriving cities. All have....well, you name it.

I do think that Calgary historically has relied too much on mountain and cowboy tourism. While the Rockies are a slight differentiator, they are not the end all, be all of what could be Calgary's identity. Minneapolis has a lot of outdoor activities that one can do, and a lot are around water activities. Now, before we get to the winter aspect, shinny is still shinny in MSP, and winter in the Rockies is still damn cold.

If you move to Calgary, you won't be spiteful or regretful. It is a good mid sized North American city with a history of a can-do attitude. It "compares" well at the macro level with many of the midwestern and central cities mentioned here. To go deeper is splitting hairs - and that is why these vs threads are usually banned.

[wild wild west]

/\good assessment

[Calgarian]

Calgary is a great Calgary.

As for comparing it to other cities, it is an extremely livable city as long as you have a car. There is a lot to do - but these activities are not much different than you will find in Minneapolis, Houston, or Denver. All have "proud sports histories". All brag about some level of agrarian roots. All have big fairs to be proud of. All have traffic issues. All have economic opportunities for their citizens. All are growing and thriving cities. All have....well, you name it.

I do think that Calgary historically has relied too much on mountain and cowboy tourism. While the Rockies are a slight differentiator, they are not the end all, be all of what could be Calgary's identity. Minneapolis has a lot of outdoor activities that one can do, and a lot are around water activities. Now, before we get to the winter aspect, shinny is still shinny in MSP, and winter in the Rockies is still damn cold.

If you move to Calgary, you won't be spiteful or regretful. It is a good mid sized North American city with a history of a can-do attitude. It "compares" well at the macro level with many of the midwestern and central cities mentioned here. To go deeper is splitting hairs - and that is why these vs threads are usually banned.

I'm not trying to make a vs thread, if you go and look at the last few pages of the Calgary construction thread, you will see a lot of discussion about Byward market in Ottawa, you will see discussion about Vancouver, Seattle and Portland and what is good and bad about each city. That's what I started this thread for, so we don't bog down the Calgary thread with discussion about other cities and why aspects of them are better/worse than aspects of Calgary.

What do other cities have in terms of public spaces, parks/gardens, libraries, museums, retail and pedestrian streets, and how do they comparer to what Calgary has? what can we learn from mistakes from both our planners and those in other cities? What is something another city has that you would love to see in Calgary?

[RWin]

Calgary is a great place to live.

I'm not sure its the best place to visit though. When I think of good places to visit (in Canada anyway) I think of Vancouver, Toronto, Victoria, Ottawa. So its not a funtion of size (size doesn't matter).

It think some of the things that make a city great are those that attract people to come and visit as well as those things that make people come to settle.

For me at least, Calgary has everything it needs to make for a great place to live - not that we can't make that better too.

[240glt]

just stick to the Edmonton thread.

Hey, knock knock :koko:

It's pretty obvious what kind of discussion I'm trying to start


Yup, it sure is

[Edmonchuck]

What do other cities have in terms of public spaces, parks/gardens, libraries, museums, retail and pedestrian streets, and how do they comparer to what Calgary has? what can we learn from mistakes from both our planners and those in other cities? What is something another city has that you would love to see in Calgary?

But that is my point...in "comparison" to many of the cities you listed, Calgary has done a really good job and "stacks up" admirably. All listed have their issues, all listed have good amounts of park space, and all listed have good libraries, museums, etc. Retail is a function of the demand of the market, you can't force that, but all cities mentioned have malls and power centers.

Houston has a space history, so you will expect to see more of that there. Denver has a rodeo history, and the Hall of Fame is just south. Calgary can't force a "museum of natural history" or the like, those usually arrive at major ports or capitals.

Calgary, like the others mentioned, is starting to remember street orientation. Houston has a dearth of this, just like Alberta in the 80's when many of the buildings you see were built or conceived. So, like all cities, they are learning from the "mistakes" of the previous generations, and also smattering it with "what was old is new again" - aka streetfront vs insular mall.

So, given it's geographic place and relative stature in the North American marketplace, I think Calgary has a great mix of what you suggest. As it grows, it will naturally get more.

Love to see in Calgary, that is something that should be organic within the city itself. Copying another is just lame. The best things are spawned by a local reference or reverence that just "takes off".

Maybe a park with a "Chinook" theme - sweeping architacture/sculpture that reminds one of a fast wind blowing through the prairie?

[RWin]

Hey, knock knock :koko:




Yup, it sure is

Yes, it is obvious. Its a discussion. Are you trying to start something else?

[240glt]

^The question was "how does Calgary stack up" Now if you all are just going to stand around & measure each others wieners then this thread is pretty pointless.

I gave my 2 cents, JohnnyC didn't like it, fine. Calgary is great. happy ?

[RWin]

Now if you all are just going to stand around & measure each others wieners then this thread is pretty pointless.


I think that was done at the last get together. We're over it. This is just a discussion.

[Calgarian]

Hey, knock knock :koko:




Yup, it sure is

Why can't we have a civil discussion about a city with out people trying to start shit. Stop trolling and contribute something or go away, it's quite simple.

[Calgarian]

But that is my point...in "comparison" to many of the cities you listed, Calgary has done a really good job and "stacks up" admirably. All listed have their issues, all listed have good amounts of park space, and all listed have good libraries, museums, etc. Retail is a function of the demand of the market, you can't force that, but all cities mentioned have malls and power centers.

Houston has a space history, so you will expect to see more of that there. Denver has a rodeo history, and the Hall of Fame is just south. Calgary can't force a "museum of natural history" or the like, those usually arrive at major ports or capitals.

Calgary, like the others mentioned, is starting to remember street orientation. Houston has a dearth of this, just like Alberta in the 80's when many of the buildings you see were built or conceived. So, like all cities, they are learning from the "mistakes" of the previous generations, and also smattering it with "what was old is new again" - aka streetfront vs insular mall.

So, given it's geographic place and relative stature in the North American marketplace, I think Calgary has a great mix of what you suggest. As it grows, it will naturally get more.

Love to see in Calgary, that is something that should be organic within the city itself. Copying another is just lame. The best things are spawned by a local reference or reverence that just "takes off".

Maybe a park with a "Chinook" theme - sweeping architacture/sculpture that reminds one of a fast wind blowing through the prairie?

All good points. I find Calgary to be somewhat bland and soul-less at times, but that is a product of how we grew as a city, and the fact that we are barely a century old. Calgary is a city with out an identity right now, and we are building that at this very moment. The Cowboy theme is only valid for 10 days a year, and outside of that, we have oil and the railroad. Tourism will play a huge part in shaping what kind of city we become as well.

I have never been to any of the cities that I listed, and most others in the US, so that's why I want to know what kind of civic areas they have that help define them as a city. Vancouver has gas town and Granville island, NYC has all 5 boroughs, Milwaukee has Beer (as mentioned above), and lots of progressive architecture, San Francisco has that old Spanish charm, New Orleans has (had) soul and Vegas has the flash and the glits and glamour. What is Calgary? where do we fit?

[HomeInMyShoes]

^Calgary doesn't really have a defining thing right now, but that is an issue with cities in Western Canada in general. Most have a disinct lack of history, having most of their growth post-1950 so the buildup of architectural history is sparse. Its why I'm so vehement that tearing down old structures be well thought out because we're really doing our ability to create a certain feel a disservice.

Organic isn't planned. It takes time. Time and a good sense of regionalism in arcitecture and planning because Calgary isn't any other city. Calgary has its own unique history and topography that should be driving the design. It's my biggest beef with the cities in Saskatchewan and Alberta. A complete lack, for the most part, of identifying our situation through the built environment.

[tarapoto]

If you're talking about sprawl, then you're well on your way to Houston/Minneapolis-St. Paul. Denver I could understand based solely on location.

I'm no expert on Denver, I only spent 24 hours there but from what I saw Denver is nothing like Calgary. A lot of construction downtown, yeah but that's about it. I guess being close to the mountains is similar, but I thought I was in Mexico really, I heard more spanish than english in my 24 hours in Denver (at least until I got to the hockey game) and I saw maybe one or two asian people. Denver is also really dirty and it seems to be a lot more rundown. I would say the sprawl is much worse in Denver too, way bigger houses and lots and it has grown together with its surrounding cities already unlike Calgary for the most part, and why the heck is the airport 40km from the city? Denver is very american, Calgary is very canadian, I see few similarities. oh and housing is much cheaper in Denver

[Calgarian]

I'm no expert on Denver, I only spent 24 hours there but from what I saw Denver is nothing like Calgary. A lot of construction downtown, yeah but that's about it. I guess being close to the mountains is similar, but I thought I was in Mexico really, I heard more spanish than english in my 24 hours in Denver (at least until I got to the hockey game) and I saw maybe one or two asian people. Denver is also really dirty and it seems to be a lot more rundown. I would say the sprawl is much worse in Denver too, way bigger houses and lots and it has grown together with its surrounding cities already unlike Calgary for the most part, and why the heck is the airport 40km from the city? Denver is very american, Calgary is very canadian, I see few similarities. oh and housing is much cheaper in Denver

Are there shopping districts or communities in Denver that ARE well done? what are some of the lessons about that city that we can learn from?

[240glt]

Why can't we have a civil discussion about a city with out people trying to start shit. Stop trolling and contribute something or go away, it's quite simple

There it is, the infamous "T" word.. You should know better, Johnnyboy, pot & kettle thing & all ;^)

You asked for city comparisons, I gave you one from Milwaukee, a city I sepnd about three weeks a year in & one of my favorite "1 millionish" US city. Beautiful place, in an interesting state of flux right now. Lots of great entertainment, and a very diverse cross-section of people. Milwaukee has lots of available land, like Calgary, ut unlike Calgary it is bordered on the east by lake Michigan, and huge abandonned warehousing & industrial on the south & west. North Milwaukee is growing like the beltline with some impressive condo developments and very upscale restaurants and night spots. There downtown core does not have many underutilized parcels of land, which has resulted in some excellent densification.

Calgary, like many other pimples on the prarie, is a victim of sprawl due to the lack of natural boundaries found in coastal and mountainous cities. Calgary seems to be dealing with it better than many other cities, so much so that even the infamous east village has a shot at being properly developed as the city grows naturally. Comparable cities, take Edmonton for example, are a lot further off at being able to "naturally" develop the decrepid (sp ?) areas. Calgarys' burbs are carbon copies of the burbs in any other similar city, the big differences appear to be happennig downtown, and of course that is driven by an unprecedented construction boom that is directly tied to the energy sector. Most other cites in the 1 million range (I've never been to Texas tho.. can't comment on Houston or Austin or Dallas) don't have that working in thier favor.

Edited to add: I spent some time in Sacramento a few years back, when I was still living full time in Calgary. To me, Sacramento feels almost exactly like Calgary, and is similar in lots of ways, but I found Sacramento to feel soulless, lacking in vibrancy... quite unlike Calgary

[Deepstar]

All good points. I find Calgary to be somewhat bland and soul-less at times, but that is a product of how we grew as a city, and the fact that we are barely a century old. Calgary is a city with out an identity right now, and we are building that at this very moment. The Cowboy theme is only valid for 10 days a year, and outside of that, we have oil and the railroad. Tourism will play a huge part in shaping what kind of city we become as well.

I have never been to any of the cities that I listed, and most others in the US, so that's why I want to know what kind of civic areas they have that help define them as a city. Vancouver has gas town and Granville island, NYC has all 5 boroughs, Milwaukee has Beer (as mentioned above), and lots of progressive architecture, San Francisco has that old Spanish charm, New Orleans has (had) soul and Vegas has the flash and the glits and glamour. What is Calgary? where do we fit?

Johnny, I'm not sure what the big worry is about. Most cities in NA and most around the world don't have a special theme or angle to it. There are plenty of nice cities to live in, but most are typically just a city.

Calgary may have the Stampede for only 10 days, but it's still high profile and unique, and huge. Not many cities have something that large and unique. The Stampede is really much like Mardi Gras. If you've been to New Orleans outside of Mardi Gras you see that it's not the same city it is during Mardi Gras.

As far as angles that other cities have

Vancouver has gas town and Granville island Many other cities have something similar, those aren't very unique in my mind. Every eastern NA city seems to have an old touristy part of town like Gastown.

San Francisco has that old Spanish charm So do dozens of other cities in the southwest US


NYC has all 5 boroughs I don't see the big deal in that really.

Las Vegas is a truly unique place, but it's one of few cities that are.

[wild wild west]

Johnny, I'm not sure what the big worry is about. Most cities in NA and most around the world don't have a special theme or angle to it. There are plenty of nice cities to live in, but most are typically just a city.

I agree with that. I don't see cities that are often compared to Calgary such as the aforementioned Denver, Houston or Minneapolis as being any less "bland" than Calgary is. Like those somewhat similar cities, Calgary is primarily a business hub, not a year-round tourist destination like San Fran, Vancouver, Vegas or New Orleans (proximity to Banff and the Stampede notwithstanding). That doesn't mean we should not strive to be a better place to live - we most certainly should - but I suspect this city will continue to be known primarily as a major business city that is a fine place to live in, but which may not be high up on people's "visit" lists.

[Calgarian]

I'm not concerned or worried about Calgary being anything, but since we are in a period of huge transition, I just wanted to discuss what works in other cities to make them more liveable and enjoyable for visitors, and if something similar could work in our context. That's all.

240glt, you did make a good comparison in between your posts that came off across as trying to be negative, and your implications that this would turn into a city vs city thread. If you want to discuss this topic, which I think could be a good discussion, feel free. If you are going to be negative, please don't post (unless it is constructive criticizm). Sound good?

[tuffyy]

As a Torontonian living in Edmonton for the past couple of years I have gotta say I really like Calgary...I have been a few times in the past few years and its a nice size city that gives a person alot of options.Does it compare to my home town Toronto?No, but for a city of its size it has got alot accomplished.It reminds me of a Minneapolis or a ''small'' Houston...

[Edmonchuck]

I'm no expert on Denver, I only spent 24 hours there but from what I saw Denver is nothing like Calgary. A lot of construction downtown, yeah but that's about it. I guess being close to the mountains is similar, but I thought I was in Mexico really, I heard more spanish than english in my 24 hours in Denver (at least until I got to the hockey game) and I saw maybe one or two asian people. Denver is also really dirty and it seems to be a lot more rundown. I would say the sprawl is much worse in Denver too, way bigger houses and lots and it has grown together with its surrounding cities already unlike Calgary for the most part, and why the heck is the airport 40km from the city? Denver is very american, Calgary is very canadian, I see few similarities. oh and housing is much cheaper in Denver


As a former Denverite, I have to disagree....

Denver has dirty parts, but really, no more so than Calgary.

The airport is another matter, but if you aren't from Edmonton, you can't relate. Let's just say it was the right decision after a debate from hell.

Denver is a lot like Calgary, and Edmonton. A crossroads of transportation that has a huge agrarian history smattered with resource companies and drier than a popcorn fart in the winter. Architecture, similar. People, similar. Retail, restaurants, etc - similar. Converntion center - bigger...blah blah blah.

You want to talk sprawl and big houses...um....er...Elbow Valley?

Denver has regional issues like Edmonton, and soon Calgary.

So, they are actually very very very comparable. If you thought Denver was white bread, guess what Denverites think of Calgary...;)

[Edmonchuck]

All good points. I find Calgary to be somewhat bland and soul-less at times, but that is a product of how we grew as a city, and the fact that we are barely a century old. Calgary is a city with out an identity right now, and we are building that at this very moment. The Cowboy theme is only valid for 10 days a year, and outside of that, we have oil and the railroad. Tourism will play a huge part in shaping what kind of city we become as well.

I have never been to any of the cities that I listed, and most others in the US, so that's why I want to know what kind of civic areas they have that help define them as a city. Vancouver has gas town and Granville island, NYC has all 5 boroughs, Milwaukee has Beer (as mentioned above), and lots of progressive architecture, San Francisco has that old Spanish charm, New Orleans has (had) soul and Vegas has the flash and the glits and glamour. What is Calgary? where do we fit?

You hit a lot of your concerns on the head there. Calgary is just too young and it a boom/bust city. NYC's atmosphere is 3 centuries old! Vegas is contrived and artificial, on purpose, but look at how quickly it wears on you. San Fran - again, older. Plus, it is a port city and the site of HUGE immigration/migration. New Orleans celebrates its mediocrity and hogde podge of French history in Spanish clothing/architecture. But, I'll live in Calgary over the Big Easy ANYDAY!

Time my friend. Time. That is all Alberta needs. You will see the identity further crystalize over time.

[Greco Roman]

Calgary; Canada's new Toronto? :D

[Western Spaghetti]

I don't think Calgarians should be trying to create some kind of special image for the city. It has to come naturally or it won't work. It's going to take time, and the western/cowboy thing may never entirely go away. Nor should it. I liken it to Oktoberfest in Munich, do you think those guys like to wear leiderhosen and sing those goofy songs?

For now be thankful that Calgary has something like the Stampede. It's Canada's largest single festival and it actually does tie into local history. Very few cities in North America can claim that. Yeah, it's a bit goofy with the western wear, etc..but at least it's not the usual jazz or arts festival that every city has, it's something different.

[entheosfog]

Everyone talks about how young Calgary is, and it is young, but having said that, there's still over 100 years of history, buildings, etc etc. Calgary has a repeated history of trying to rid itself of its past through the demolition of old buildings or even blocks of old buildings. And I'm not talking about a house here or a non-descript building there, it's more the idea of having an area evolve over time, mixing old and new. Calgary, it seems, is all or nothing. Stephen Avenue is a great historical district but outside of that, there aren't a lot of areas that compare. Penny Lane sort of did on a 3/4 block scale but that's gone now. That could have been made into something with more potential or incorporated into the new towers but it seems that starting fresh is the order of the day. That's why I think it is an absolute necessity to not demolish buildings like the ones on 7th ave by 1st SW or the Radio Block (Drum & Monkey, Cherry Lounge buildings etc). To me, that is why Calgary lacks a lot of the 'vibrancy' and eclectic-ness that other cities may have. Everything feels so new or almost new. Many of Vancouver's vibrant areas where built up over time and added to. For instance, Commercial Drive has been evolving for 100 years but isn't just lined with old buildings or 60s-80s buildings. Yaletown is totally opposite of that but reminds me a lot of what Calgary is doing. But what's done is done and Calgary now has to focus on good design (ie: East Village, Vic Park) and let these areas grow over time.
I also think Calgary needs to become less-auto orientated. I know Metro Van is guilty of being worse in this respect, but the transit system here is a world above what I experienced in Calgary.

[entheosfog]

I don't think Calgarians should be trying to create some kind of special image for the city. It has to come naturally or it won't work. It's going to take time, and the western/cowboy thing may never entirely go away. Nor should it. I liken it to Oktoberfest in Munich, do you think those guys like to wear leiderhosen and sing those goofy songs?

For now be thankful that Calgary has something like the Stampede. It's Canada's largest single festival and it actually does tie into local history. Very few cities in North America can claim that. Yeah, it's a bit goofy with the western wear, etc..but at least it's not the usual jazz or arts festival that every city has, it's something different.

I don't think Calgary's image will ever change in the eyes of most other Canadians. They'll always think of Albertan's as rednecks or cowboys. :rolleyes:
My boss in Vancouver asked me if I wear a cowboy hat or if I hunted.
And he wasn't kidding, either...

[Corndogger]

I don't think Calgary's image will ever change in the eyes of most other Canadians. They'll always think of Albertan's as rednecks or cowboys. :rolleyes:
My boss in Vancouver asked me if I wear a cowboy hat or if I hunted.
And he wasn't kidding, either...

No wonder most Albertan's think the rest of the country is clued out when it comes to how they perceive us. And it's no surprise that a lot of native Albertans wish the rest of the country would stay the hell out of our business.

[Corndogger]

There it is, the infamous "T" word.. You should know better, Johnnyboy, pot & kettle thing & all ;^)

You asked for city comparisons, I gave you one from Milwaukee, a city I sepnd about three weeks a year in & one of my favorite "1 millionish" US city. Beautiful place, in an interesting state of flux right now. Lots of great entertainment, and a very diverse cross-section of people. Milwaukee has lots of available land, like Calgary, ut unlike Calgary it is bordered on the east by lake Michigan, and huge abandonned warehousing & industrial on the south & west. North Milwaukee is growing like the beltline with some impressive condo developments and very upscale restaurants and night spots. There downtown core does not have many underutilized parcels of land, which has resulted in some excellent densification.


Have you ever been to Madison, WI? For a smaller size city it is supposed to have a lot of great cultural attractions and a great pedestrian friendly area in State Street, which connects Capitol Square with the University of Wisconsin-Madison campus. I've been told it is a very bike friendly place as well. Maybe the combination of having the state capital buildings and university campus so close together along with being built on an isthmus is what makes the place so appealing. I think the relative lack of water is something that hurts Calgary and until relatively recently, we haven't done much to take advantage of what we have. It's amazing we didn't have condo development along the river ages ago. Too bad we had a small group of people worried about shadows limit the development potential along the small amount of riverbank we have in the downtown core.

[Greco Roman]

No wonder most Albertan's think the rest of the country is clued out when it comes to how they perceive us. And it's no surprise that a lot of native Albertans wish the rest of the country would stay the hell out of our business.

It's called regionalism, and westerners attack easterners just as much as easterners attack westerners.

We are all guilty of this.

[Calgarian]

It's called regionalism, and westerners attack easterners just as much as easterners attack westerners.

We are all guilty of this.

yes we are.

[MolsonExport]

No wonder most Albertan's think the rest of the country is clued out when it comes to how they perceive us. And it's no surprise that a lot of native Albertans wish the rest of the country would stay the hell out of our business.

Yeah. Must be. Let the Eastern bastards freeze in the dark!





;)

[Calgarian]

So basically, people on here think the cultural amenities and public spaces within the city are sufficient, and that the culture we are building will continue to grow and evolve into it's own.

I am still curious if there is anything that is different or better in another city that can be done here?

[Corndogger]

It's called regionalism, and westerners attack easterners just as much as easterners attack westerners.

We are all guilty of this.

But there is one big difference even though I expect most of you to not agree. When we attack it is usually because we are defending ourselves. Also, there is a lot more truth to our criticisms of easterners than there is to theirs of us. And as long as the eastern-based media keeps feeding them propaganda things will never change.

[Corndogger]

So basically, people on here think the cultural amenities and public spaces within the city are sufficient, and that the culture we are building will continue to grow and evolve into it's own.

I am still curious if there is anything that is different or better in another city that can be done here?

I'm not sure how anyone can say that the cultural amenities we have are fine for a city of our size. Our performing arts center is way too small and the entire complex is bland (IMHO). We need more and better museums (hopefully the new Science Center will be decent) of all types and I'd really like to see us get a large outdoor amphitheater built in an area where no one can complain about the noise. The entire East Village area should have been developed into a huge cultural/sports district with the above mentioned items, a world class library, and a new baseball stadium.

[Edmonchuck]

Everyone talks about how young Calgary is, and it is young, but having said that, there's still over 100 years of history, buildings, etc etc. Calgary has a repeated history of trying to rid itself of its past through the demolition of old buildings or even blocks of old buildings. (...).


Ok, I'm only going to comment here.

100 years is NOTHING in city history when people start making comparisons or look for an identity. New York/New Amsterdam is 2 centuries OLDER...and that "culture" took a long long long time to evolve, and still is evolving.

My friend Guhahand said it best. 100 years? Bah, I have CHAIRS in my house older than that! He wasn't kidding, most of the furniture in his house in Chenai was older than Canada is as a country.

Cities demolish old buildings. Cities build new buildings. Cities watch buildings go into disrepair. Cities put up plaques saying a great building once was here but in the name of progress blah blah blah.

The past is more than buildings. Calgary is way too young to really be heavily chastized here.

[Just Build It]

So basically, people on here think the cultural amenities and public spaces within the city are sufficient, and that the culture we are building will continue to grow and evolve into it's own.

I am still curious if there is anything that is different or better in another city that can be done here?

Things will evolve as they go. Calgary, and Edmonton, etc.. are cities that are really young in the overall realm of things and will be evolving for quite some time.

We can always look to other cities for idea. Cities like New york have borrowed ideas from european cities, European cities have borrowed ideas from middle eastern cities etc..

Let's face it, in 100 years culture is going to be the same everywhere. I went to visit relatives in Portugal a few years ago, and was amazed at how North American it is these days. Portugal, along with the rest of Europe is being strongly influenced by us at the same time. So is the rest of the world, just look at fabulous cities like Hong Kong, and Shanghai. Where did they get their ideas for metro systems, internet cafes and skyscrapers? New Orleans wasn't the first city to invent a party.

[entheosfog]

Ok, I'm only going to comment here.

100 years is NOTHING in city history when people start making comparisons or look for an identity. New York/New Amsterdam is 2 centuries OLDER...and that "culture" took a long long long time to evolve, and still is evolving.

My friend Guhahand said it best. 100 years? Bah, I have CHAIRS in my house older than that! He wasn't kidding, most of the furniture in his house in Chenai was older than Canada is as a country.

Cities demolish old buildings. Cities build new buildings. Cities watch buildings go into disrepair. Cities put up plaques saying a great building once was here but in the name of progress blah blah blah.

The past is more than buildings. Calgary is way too young to really be heavily chastized here.

Obviously Calgary is young compared to New York or European cities but my point was that Calgary has 100 short years of history and it wants to keep erasing what little amount it has left. It's not about just demolishing old buildings, but getting rid of spaces that evolved over time and are being replaced with cold spaces. I wasn't trying to compare Calgary to New York or any city much older than Calgary as that would be foolish. But I was trying to make comparisons with Vancouver as Vancouver was incorporated as a city around the same time as Calgary. I'm aware both cities (and all cities) demolish their old buildings but Calgary has a lot of vacant and under-utilized land that could be built up instead. And Calgary seems to have too few old buildings left, in my humble opinion.

[poopysheep]

i think Calgary is an immensly livable city... however we really need to work on alot of issues.... the great thing is that we seem to have a group of young people ( most of the people on this board ) who have the right ideas and hopefully they will make things happen for the better....

i agree about the time issue.... think in 10 years if the East Village is built up, the river boardwalk area built up, the stampede expansion, Railtown, Eau Claire, the greyhound station gone and those car dealerships moved and that area built up... emphasis on the TOD concept and the WLRT... Vic Park and the rest of the Beltline... all of these things if they go forward will make Calgary into a vastly different urban environment... so again it comes down to time....

we will never be a Boston, or Montreal or NYC... that isn't us... Calgary is about innovation and making it happen and our "newness" reflects that and it isn't something to lament... embrace it... for better or worse it's who we are...

[Edmonchuck]

(...)but Calgary has a lot of vacant and under-utilized land that could be built up instead. (...).

There we agree...

[Western Spaghetti]

we will never be a Boston, or Montreal or NYC... that isn't us... Calgary is about innovation and making it happen and our "newness" reflects that and it isn't something to lament... embrace it... for better or worse it's who we are...

I agree, and Boston, Mtl and NYC will never be Calgary either. I love visiting, for example NYC, but I'm quite happy to live in Calgary.

[wild wild west]

If you look at the events of the last few years though, Calgary has turned a huge corner. The visible changes are all around us - new skyscrapers being built in the core, intensification on a massive scale in the Beltline/Vic Park area - but an equally big breakthrough has been in getting people to buy into the vision of what kind of city this can and should be. Almost everyone on Council and City Administration now recognizes that downtown intensification, new transit lines, transit-oriented development and higher densities throughout the city are the best way to go. We have a great new Downtown Plan, there are exciting new visions for areas such as Eau Claire and East Village, developers are increasingly being asked to increase their densities rather than decrease them, the new policy plans coming out of City Hall are for the most part vastly superior to what was being turned out 10 years ago, LRT expansion is getting priority over new roads, transit-oriented development is being actively promoted, there's a much greater emphasis on the pedestrian realm in policy documents, Urban Design Panel and Planning Commission than there has been in the past, and there is even talk of investment in new public buildings and spaces such as the new library. Before a city can become truly great, its citizens must collectively realize what steps it will take to get there; I believe Calgary has made tremendous strides in that direction in recent years.

[Bassic Lab]

i think Calgary is an immensly livable city... however we really need to work on alot of issues.... the great thing is that we seem to have a group of young people ( most of the people on this board ) who have the right ideas and hopefully they will make things happen for the better....

i agree about the time issue.... think in 10 years if the East Village is built up, the river boardwalk area built up, the stampede expansion, Railtown, Eau Claire, the greyhound station gone and those car dealerships moved and that area built up... emphasis on the TOD concept and the WLRT... Vic Park and the rest of the Beltline... all of these things if they go forward will make Calgary into a vastly different urban environment... so again it comes down to time....

we will never be a Boston, or Montreal or NYC... that isn't us... Calgary is about innovation and making it happen and our "newness" reflects that and it isn't something to lament... embrace it... for better or worse it's who we are...

I'd argue that our "newness" is a reflection on local culture but not in any positive way. It doesn't really have to do with a fondness for innovation, instead it reflects a city lacking an identity. There isn't an established sense of who or what we are. I think part of this is the cities age but another part has to do with the nature of the city. Since it is a boom bust kind of place where most of the people came from some where else there is less of a connection to here. Also the people who come here do so in search of new opportunity, Calgary to them represents economic opportunity instead of life style or culture, so there is no connection to the Calgary that is and was. I think this differs from the truelly great cities of the world where, even if they take in large numbers of out siders, there exists a mythos around them. Like you go to New York for every thing it represents, the whole idea of if you can make it there you can make it any where, the power, the culture, and every thing else. This is lacking in Calgary so there has been less concern for the place.

I don't think this lack of identity is really bad though. I obviously regret the consequences but it means we are still something of a blank slate which can be a good thing. It means we have the power to decide what we want Calgary to represent on the world stage. Right now we can really forge the foundation of a more complete local identity. Where as now when some one thinks Calgary they might think "there is a rodeo and it's booming", in the future there could be a more complete idea. I think right now we are starting to really form this idea of Calgary, which makes this a very exciting time. We're now biulding a city with some ideas on what we want it to become, instead of letting anything go we now care about design and function. This can only be a good thing.

[Arch26]

Everyone talks about how young Calgary is, and it is young, but having said that, there's still over 100 years of history, buildings, etc etc. Calgary has a repeated history of trying to rid itself of its past through the demolition of old buildings or even blocks of old buildings.

To be fair, much of the wanton demolition that has happened in the last 40 years is simply a product of modernist planning principles. In the 1960s, when most of the "urban renewal" occurred, it was very common in North America and certainly NOT unique to Calgary. Montreal, for example, did HUGE damage to itself during that time as well, as did Toronto. Vancouver dodged a bullet. But to say that it was solely Calgary's mistake, and solely Calgary's stupidity is really not fair. It was simply a product of the times... a regretful one, but not at all uncommon.

[Arch26]

but the transit system here is a world above what I experienced in Calgary.

Seriously dude. You could skateboard faster than most of the buses in central Vancouver. The city has the rapid transit system from hell and has a reputation for making some really outlandishly ridiculous transportation decisions. Buses are more frequent (due to higher density mostly) and they do benefit from the rigid grid, but I would not give Vancouver more credit than that.

[Calgarian]

I'd argue that our "newness" is a reflection on local culture but not in any positive way. It doesn't really have to do with a fondness for innovation, instead it reflects a city lacking an identity. There isn't an established sense of who or what we are. I think part of this is the cities age but another part has to do with the nature of the city. Since it is a boom bust kind of place where most of the people came from some where else there is less of a connection to here. Also the people who come here do so in search of new opportunity, Calgary to them represents economic opportunity instead of life style or culture, so there is no connection to the Calgary that is and was. I think this differs from the truelly great cities of the world where, even if they take in large numbers of out siders, there exists a mythos around them. Like you go to New York for every thing it represents, the whole idea of if you can make it there you can make it any where, the power, the culture, and every thing else. This is lacking in Calgary so there has been less concern for the place.

I don't think this lack of identity is really bad though. I obviously regret the consequences but it means we are still something of a blank slate which can be a good thing. It means we have the power to decide what we want Calgary to represent on the world stage. Right now we can really forge the foundation of a more complete local identity. Where as now when some one thinks Calgary they might think "there is a rodeo and it's booming", in the future there could be a more complete idea. I think right now we are starting to really form this idea of Calgary, which makes this a very exciting time. We're now biulding a city with some ideas on what we want it to become, instead of letting anything go we now care about design and function. This can only be a good thing.

Good post, I agree completely.

[entheosfog]

Seriously dude. You could skateboard faster than most of the buses in central Vancouver. The city has the rapid transit system from hell and has a reputation for making some really outlandishly ridiculous transportation decisions. Buses are more frequent (due to higher density mostly) and they do benefit from the rigid grid, but I would not give Vancouver more credit than that.

I was just comparing it to Calgary

[Arch26]

I was just comparing it to Calgary

I know. I was just playing devil's advocate ;) . However, I will say that I think the C-Train is light years more useful than the Skytrain. Except for frequency, by virtue of the Skytrain's automated vehicles.

[entheosfog]

I know. I was just playing devil's advocate ;) . However, I will say that I think the C-Train is light years more useful than the Skytrain. Except for frequency, by virtue of the Skytrain's automated vehicles.

You can fit way more people in a C-Train car, that's for sure. I guess they are a lot longer...

[Arch26]

You can fit way more people in a C-Train car, that's for sure. I guess they are a lot longer...

I think the C-Train has more balanced coverage too. I mean, the Skytrain has no service at all in Vancouver west and covers only one corner of the downtown peninsula. Yet there are TWO lines through Burnaby.

[ummagumma66]

I'd rather not get into the whole "how does Calgary stack up against ...." but I'd rather think in 25 or 50 years how will other cities stack up against Calgary...

[Just Build It]

IMO Calgary stacks up well against other NA cities as a place to live and earn a living. I like the direction it's going, particularly with areas like Beltline and Bridgeland. Other areas of the city have been flying under the radar but are really on the move, like South Calgary/Bankview.

The city is always improving and progressing,that's what I like about it the most. It's a good city now, but will be very good in 10 years.

[Habanero]

I'm no expert on Denver, I only spent 24 hours there but from what I saw Denver is nothing like Calgary. A lot of construction downtown, yeah but that's about it. I guess being close to the mountains is similar, but I thought I was in Mexico really, I heard more spanish than english in my 24 hours in Denver (at least until I got to the hockey game) and I saw maybe one or two asian people. Denver is also really dirty and it seems to be a lot more rundown. I would say the sprawl is much worse in Denver too, way bigger houses and lots and it has grown together with its surrounding cities already unlike Calgary for the most part, and why the heck is the airport 40km from the city? Denver is very american, Calgary is very canadian, I see few similarities. oh and housing is much cheaper in Denver

I agree, having spent some time in Denver over the years. The geographical layout is similar, with mountains to the west and prairies to the east. The city itself really doesn't seem like Calgary to me. American cities have a much different feel to them, I have yet to see an American city that reminds me of western Canadian cities like Calgary, Winnipeg, Edmonton. Some people (Well mainly Winnipegers on this forum) say Winnipeg reminds them of Chicago, whereas really the two are nothing alike.

[krazycanuck]

The city has completely changed over the past 10 years. 10 years ago, Calgary was alot more like Edmonton is today, just alot more laid back and a smaller feel.

A few people have mentioned that Calgary has really turned a corner in how we view our own city and the level that we expect our city to achieve at. 10 years ago, we were happy to compete with Edmonton and that was the extent of our thinking and our view for the city. However, now things seem to just be above and beyond all that, we no longer want to be just a city of a million people, or take on other cities of the same size, we want to have the same vibrancy of the 3 major centres in Canada.

The boom is partly the cause of this. The arts scene is much better here now than 10 years ago, they are better supported, funds are allocated to restore some of our heritage buildings. the Grand and Palace Theatres come to mind. All of our major attractions either have undergone, or are about to undergo major changes to enhance and upgrade them.

We really won't know what this city is and can be until we have some time, after this current boom to look around and ask ourselves, what do we have now?

Calgary is one of the youngest cities in North America, however we do have an attitude that we want to be the best, which is great. Are we a good city right now? yes. Are we a great city? I don't think so. However, The fruits of our labours won't truly be seen and the city's true identity and form will be shown 10-20 years from now. We are playing a game of catch up with other cities across North America and so far, I think we're on the right path to have a true gem on the prairies.

[Surrealplaces]

I like the direction Calgary is headed. I was out taking some update pictures in the beltline today and really stopped to look and notice how much change is taking place. It blew my mind. Calgary inner city areas are really changing for the good. As mentioned before, it seems like the art/culture side of the city is improving. That's the one area where Calgary lacks IMO, but it seems to be getting much better. Ethnic diversity is jumping by leaps and bounds and is reflected in the stats, and is also very noticeable, this might help shed the redneck image, although unwarranted it is still there and needs changing.

IMO, if you compare Calgary to American cities of the same population, Calgary seems much more vibrant and cosmopolitan. As I said before, I like the direction we're headed in. It's an exciting time to be a Calgarian.

[Calgarian]

Lets have the NYC / Beltline discussion in this thread, that's why I made it.

[Surrealplaces]

Lets have the NYC / Beltline discussion in this thread, that's why I made it.

How about a Calgary-Houston comparison? :)

I'm down in Houston at the moment, and I have to say that in comparing Calgary to Houston, we fair very well IMO. Houston's downtown reminds me of Calgary, in the way the streets are laid out and the style of the buildings. This makes sense of course, as both downtowns were built up during the same periods. Houston's has tasller towers, but seems less dense than Calgary's. The outer suburbs are somewhat similar to Calgary's, and every other North american city.

What is different, IMO is the way the inner city areas are laid out. The area around the core is much different than it is in Calgary. Here, the downtown is strictly a CBD , ringed by massive multi laned freeways, and on the other side of those freeways the neighborhoods don't have much.....allot of abandoned buildings and empty land. I've seen this with other American cities.

After touring around a bit, it makes me very thankful that we didn't build freeways in and around downtown as was onced proposed. I'm quite happy to see the direction we are going. The beltline IMO has fantastic potential, and so do the other areas surrounding the core.

[CorporateWhore]

Lets have the NYC / Beltline discussion in this thread, that's why I made it.

I still find the idea of a NYC/Calgary comparison absolutely ridiculous....and yet the fact that real estate prices are starting to be in the same ballpark is why we sort of have to do it. However, let's make something clear...it's stricly a real estate discussion....there are costs in the NYC that you simply don't have in Canada...ie, paying 5-10k a year for your grade-school kid to go to a mediocre private school (because public school is somewhat like sending them to juvy), or the 3-5k a year per person you spend on health insurance.

[Deepstar]

I still find the idea of a NYC/Calgary comparison absolutely ridiculous....and yet the fact that real estate prices are starting to be in the same ballpark is why we sort of have to do it. However, let's make something clear...it's stricly a real estate discussion....there are costs in the NYC that you simply don't have in Canada...ie, paying 5-10k a year for your grade-school kid to go to a mediocre private school (because public school is somewhat like sending them to juvy), or the 3-5k a year per person you spend on health insurance.

I heard auto insurance is expensive too.

I think we tend to think of housing in NYC is being ridiculously expensive, and 4 or 5 years ago it would've been. Calgary's average price for a house was 200k, and the dollar was 65 cents, and thus NYC would have been crazy money to buy. These days the reality is that we are very expensive, but I don't think it's going to stay up with the rest of these cities for long.

[401_King]

cities of similar sizes, I dont think there is another city in NA greater than Calgary.

[Tarsus]

How about a Calgary-Houston comparison? :)

I'm down in Houston at the moment, and I have to say that in comparing Calgary to Houston, we fair very well IMO. Houston's downtown reminds me of Calgary, in the way the streets are laid out and the style of the buildings. This makes sense of course, as both downtowns were built up during the same periods. Houston's has tasller towers, but seems less dense than Calgary's. The outer suburbs are somewhat similar to Calgary's, and every other North american city.

What is different, IMO is the way the inner city areas are laid out. The area around the core is much different than it is in Calgary. Here, the downtown is strictly a CBD , ringed by massive multi laned freeways, and on the other side of those freeways the neighborhoods don't have much.....allot of abandoned buildings and empty land. I've seen this with other American cities.

After touring around a bit, it makes me very thankful that we didn't build freeways in and around downtown as was onced proposed. I'm quite happy to see the direction we are going. The beltline IMO has fantastic potential, and so do the other areas surrounding the core.

That's kind of what I thought when I was down there last year. Houston has the same population as Toronto, but is not near as diverse and cosmopolitan as Toronto is. I still don't know why we always compare our cities to ones south of the border. They should be comparing to us.

[Surrealplaces]

Here are a couple of pictures from downtown Houston. The streets in the downtown, did remind me of Calgary, as did one of their downtown markets. Outside of that, nothing here really reminds me of Calgary.

This street struck me as quite 'Calgary' looking
http://img267.imageshack.us/img267/4868/houston069vr6.jpg





Then there's this market. Hmmm.. ... The same contrived baloney as a market in Calgary.

http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/9376/houston093vr2.jpg
http://img259.imageshack.us/img259/9273/houston094ug7.jpg

[CorporateWhore]

cities of similar sizes, I dont think there is another city in NA greater than Calgary.

that's always a fairly dumb comparison, because Calgary is a uni-city compared to most mult-city metros. Anyone who goes to any big city, whether it be Toronto, Chicago, NY etc will instantly see that reality is much different, and that these cities are in fact much bigger, just not on paper.

[giallo]

cities of similar sizes, I dont think there is another city in NA greater than Calgary.

It may be touristy, but Honolulu is pretty wonderful.

[freeweed]

that's always a fairly dumb comparison, because Calgary is a uni-city compared to most mult-city metros. Anyone who goes to any big city, whether it be Toronto, Chicago, NY etc will instantly see that reality is much different, and that these cities are in fact much bigger, just not on paper.

Hell yeah - having lived most of my life in unicities (or small towns), it's a total perceptual shift. I've had Torontonians tell me that Toronto itself isn't actually all that big - they discount the dozens of suburbs that butt up against it. Whereas from my standpoint, Toronto is positively HUGE and sprawls for tens of kilometres in every direction. To me, CUD is CUD, regardless of the sign saying "now entering Markham". :haha:

American cities are even worse, because they often have large gaps separating what is essentially the same city for the purposes of transportation and the local economy.

[CorporateWhore]

I heard auto insurance is expensive too.


that's one thing that's thankfully not a huge issue....since most of us don't own cars.

[bendecido]

I still don't know why we always compare our cities to ones south of the border. They should be comparing to us.
Here Here!:yes:

[Rysdad]

Quote:
Originally Posted by 401_King
cities of similar sizes, I dont think there is another city in NA greater than Calgary.

Ottawa-Gatineau is better in my opinion.

-cottage country and 1000s of lakes at your doorstep
-much lower cost of living especially Gatineau and a higer median income
-much much much more heritage culture and museums
-french-english mix
-more green space/parks
-very green
-closer to other major areas
-people dont think they live in a big city while its been a 1 million metro since early nineties-no pretention
-beautiful heritage towns such as almonte, wakefield, montebello, carleton place, smiths falls at doorstep
-rideau canal, st lawrence river and ottawa river provide real boating

[Jimby]

Quote:
Originally Posted by 401_King
cities of similar sizes, I dont think there is another city in NA greater than Calgary.

Ottawa-Gatineau is better in my opinion.

-cottage country and 1000s of lakes at your doorstep
-much lower cost of living especially Gatineau and a higer median income
-much much much more heritage culture and museums
-french-english mix
-more green space/parks
-very green
-closer to other major areas
-people dont think they live in a big city while its been a 1 million metro since early nineties-no pretention
-beautiful heritage towns such as almonte, wakefield, montebello, carleton place, smiths falls at doorstep
-rideau canal, st lawrence river and ottawa river provide real boating

I am sure you have never been to Calgary. You are entitled to prefer Ottawa, but the points you present are ridiculous.
Reader's Digest says Ottawa is the rudest city in the country.
Ottawa is ok, but apart from being the national capital, it isn't anything special. Downtown Ottawa is deader at night than downtown Calgary, the only nightlife is in Gatineau.
I can't stand the humidity in the summer in Ottawa. Calgary has a much nicer climate - drier air, milder winters with warm chinooks, less snow, big blue skies...

my counterpoints:
- adjacent Rocky Mountains & national & provincial parks trump your cottage country and little hills
- much much higher taxes in Quebec, plus Ontario and Quebec have provincial sales taxes. Cost of living is slightly lower in Calgary than Ottawa
http://www.stat.sfu.ca/~cschwarz/SFUFA/EBinfo/StatCan/CostLiving.pdf
I take it the higher median income you refer to does NOT include Gatineau?

- you only have "culture" and museums because the whole country subsidizes the national capital, it has nothing to do with anything anyone in Ottawa has done.
- we have English, and more French than you think; and every nationality in the world is moving to Calgary for the unlimited opportunities here.
- Calgary has some of the largest urban parks in North America. Your parks are subsidized by all Canadian taxpayers so I should hope they are nice, we would like to see some value for our money.
- we're a 2 and a half hour flight from L.A. We are more attuned to the west coast than the east. Lucky you can make connections in Toronto if you want to go anywhere. Lufthansa is to fly Frankfurt-Calgary; what you got, Zoom Air?
- big deal you have a million unpretentious civil servants - yawn -a totally artificial town with no real reason for existing apart from the federal government. High tech can and does locate anywhere.
- our heritage is thousands of years old, we have medicine wheels, teepee rings and other evidence of long-standing indigenous not imported culture.
Banff beats Montebello (a castle compared to a log cabin), Wakefield, Almonte etc.
- the Bow river is recognized as one of the world's outstanding trout fishing streams. Yes we have boating, yes we have canals, yes we have 2 clean rivers flowing through the city.

[Rysdad]

Very good points by you,one guy said its the best city of its size in NA I think its Ottawa-Gatineau.

I have been to calgary several times and it is great-dont get me wrong. This is just my opinion you are very well entitled to yours.
The cost of living for business may be lower in calgary and I agree taxes are higer in quebec where I live. But my house and land would be double or more than double(in Calgary). Plus I have 2 kids and despite the fact I pay higher income taxes I pay 7 dollars per day for child care, I dont pay for water usage(not really a good thing) or health care. So any difference in the area of taxation is moot, I also know auto ins and hydro are more exp in Alberta.

I think Calgary is physically beautiful and many times I considered moving there its just that right now the cost of living for families is way too high. Two years ago a house that was 200k is 400 k now. I know salaries have not increased that much.

I just think its getting out of control.

[Rysdad]

and here are some supporting me, though neither is correct these are pure opinions, for a single person alberta is probably better
http://www.canadianbusiness.com/rankings/bestplacestolive/list.jsp

The world's top cities offering the best quality of life
(New York is the base city with a score of 100 points) 2007 Rank 2006 Rank City Country Points
1 1 Zurich Switzerland 108.1
2 2 Geneva Switzerland 108.0
=3 3 Vancouver Canada 107.7
=3 4 Vienna Austria 107.7
=5 5 Auckland New Zealand 107.3
=5 6 Düsseldorf Germany 107.3
7 7 Frankfurt Germany 107.1
8 8 Munich Germany 106.9
=9 9 Bern Switzerland 106.5
=9 9 Sydney Australia 106.5
11 11 Copenhagen Denmark 106.2
12 12 Wellington New Zealand 105.8
13 13 Amsterdam Netherlands 105.7
14 14 Brussels Belgium 105.6
15 15 Toronto Canada 105.4
16 16 Berlin Germany 105.2
17 17 Melbourne Australia 105.0
=18 18 Luxembourg Luxembourg 104.8
=18 21 Ottawa Canada 104.8
20 20 Stockholm Sweden 104.7
21 21 Perth Australia 104.5
22 22 Montreal Canada 104.3
23 23 Nürnberg Germany 104.2
=24 25 Calgary Canada 103.6
=24 25 Hamburg Germany 103.6
26 31 Oslo Norway 103.5
=27 24 Dublin Ireland 103.3
=27 27 Honolulu USA 103.3
29 28 San Francisco USA 103.2
=30 29 Adelaide Australia 103.1
=30 29 Helsinki Finland 103.1
32 31 Brisbane Australia 102.8
33 33 Paris France 102.7
34 34 Singapore Singapore 102.5
35 35 Tokyo Japan 102.3
=36 37 Lyon France 101.9
=36 36 Boston USA 101.9
38 37 Yokohama Japan 101.7
39 39 London UK 101.2
40 40 Kobe Japan 101.0
41 44 Barcelona Spain 100.6
=42 45 Madrid Spain 100.5
=42 51 Osaka Japan 100.5
=44 41 Washington DC USA 100.4
=44 41 Chicago USA 100.4
46 43 Portland USA 100.3
47 53 Lisbon Portugal 100.1
48 46 New York City USA 100.0
=49 51 Milan Italy 99.9
=49 47 Seattle USA 99.9

Alberta has however made a great move regarding paying for Autism treatment one which all Canadian prov govts should follow.

[Stephen Ave]

Quote:
Originally Posted by 401_King
cities of similar sizes, I dont think there is another city in NA greater than Calgary.

Ottawa-Gatineau is better in my opinion.

-cottage country and 1000s of lakes at your doorstep
-much lower cost of living especially Gatineau and a higer median income
-much much much more heritage culture and museums
-french-english mix
-more green space/parks
-very green
-closer to other major areas
-people dont think they live in a big city while its been a 1 million metro since early nineties-no pretention
-beautiful heritage towns such as almonte, wakefield, montebello, carleton place, smiths falls at doorstep
-rideau canal, st lawrence river and ottawa river provide real boating

I understand allot of your arguments, as I grew up in Ottawa area (Nepean), but you can't really compare the two cities. They're different. There are different ways to look at the positive points of each city.


-cottage country and 1000s of lakes at your doorstep
Yes, but if you go a bit farther into BC, you get much nicer lakes than anything in Ontario

-much lower cost of living especially Gatineau and a higer median income
The Ontario side is only slightly higher median income, and for most people in Calgary the cost of living is lower. For anyone who purchased a house more than 5 years ago, the cost of living is actually cheaper here.


-much much much more heritage culture and museums
I'd like to see more of this in Calgary

-french-english mix
This can also be a drawback. Here you don't get the French/English Quebec/Ontario politics, and frankly I prefer this.

-more green space/parks
They are about the same actually. Calgary's park and bike path system is just as good.


-closer to other major areas
That is something I miss


-people dont think they live in a big city while its been a 1 million metro since early nineties-no pretention
Seriously?? C'mon now, Ottawa can be very pretentious. I always thought it was more pretentious than Calgary. Most Ottawans would even agree.


-beautiful heritage towns such as almonte, wakefield, montebello, carleton place, smiths falls at doorstep
I like those towns too, but there are towns here that Ottawa doesn't have like; Banff, Canmore, Bragg Creek . It's an apples to oranges comparison.


-rideau canal, st lawrence river and ottawa river provide real boating
The Rockies provide real skiing and boarding, mountain biking, etc.. Rafting down the Elbow river is something you can't really equal in Ottawa.


There are aspects of Calgary that I like over Ottawa, like the big city feeling it has, with it's LRT and high rise condo towers. Calgarians in general have a much more bold and positive attitude, and although the city lacks historical charm, it's also not held back by it. There is more opportunity for young people in a city like Calgary.

None of that was to say Ottawa is a bad place, quite the opposite, it's a great place. I miss things about it, but also thankful for things in Calgary. I've always thought Calgary and Ottawa were a good comparison because of there similarity in population, but they different in many ways. I've had lots of friends come out from Ottawa to visit over the years, and some like Calgary better, some like Ottawa better.

[Habanero]

None of that was to say Ottawa is a bad place, quite the opposite, it's a great place. I miss things about it, but also thankful for things in Calgary. I've always thought Calgary and Ottawa were a good comparison because of there similarity in population, but they different in many ways. I've had lots of friends come out from Ottawa to visit over the years, and some like Calgary better, some like Ottawa better.

That's a pretty good way to sum it up. They are both good quality cities. I lived in Ottawa back in the 90's when I was attending Carleton. I only moved to Calgary for job reasons, and had planned to move back to Ottawa, or my hometown of Brockville after a few years. 10 years later I'm still here, but I like the city allot more now that I've gotten to know it. Calgary seems to have some kind of energy going for it. I can't put my finger on it, but it's there. It's much different than Ottawa in that regard.

As far as comparing Ottawa to Calgary, really it's more like comparing apples to oranges IMO.

[jeremy_haak]

-rideau canal, st lawrence river and ottawa river provide real boating
The Rockies provide real skiing and boarding, mountain biking, etc.. Rafting down the Elbow river is something you can't really equal in Ottawa.

Okay, I'm not going to argue either way that Ottawa or Calgary are better, I find city v. city arguments to be rather ridiculous for the reason you mentioned, they're rarely actually comparable.

That said, I can't let a comment like that pass. The Ottawa River is probably one of the top, if not *the* top whitewater destination in the world, let alone Canada. Are you telling me that the Elbow offers rapids like these? And if so, how do I get there?

Qidwjriyi_o

I suppose I should include a video of actual rafting on the Ottawa.
xovirKWSgQw

[freeweed]

That said, I can't let a comment like that pass. The Ottawa River is probably one of the top, if not *the* top whitewater destination in the world, let alone Canada. Are you telling me that the Elbow offers rapids like these? And if so, how do I get there?

He said "raft", not "whitewater raft". At least that's how I read it. Two entirely different activities beyond the fact that they both occur on water.

Unless I'm missing something. I've never seen much in the way of great rapids on the Elbow either.

[Boris2k7]

http://img259.imageshack.us/img259/9273/houston094ug7.jpg

I ate in that Hard Rock...

[Stephen Ave]

Okay, I'm not going to argue either way that Ottawa or Calgary are better, I find city v. city arguments to be rather ridiculous for the reason you mentioned, they're rarely actually comparable.

That said, I can't let a comment like that pass. The Ottawa River is probably one of the top, if not *the* top whitewater destination in the world, let alone Canada. Are you telling me that the Elbow offers rapids like these? And if so, how do I get there?



I didn't mean rafting as in whitewater rafting. The Elbow is not known for that at all. I meant rafting leisurely through the city with a beers in tow. Floating down the Elbow river through Calgary is a different type of experience than one you'd get from going down the Rideau or Ottawa river. I don't mean, better experience, just a different experience. Another example would be sailing on the Ottawa river, you would generally get a better sailing experience on the Ottawa river, but you can still do that here in Calgary.

You can still get rapids like those of the Ottawa river by going to kicking horse river near Golden.

I'm with you, in that I'm not saying one city is better than the other. I'm pointing out that there are different ways to look at things.

[Surrealplaces]

I ate in that Hard Rock...

Ah, good old Bayou Place. I don't know about you, but didn't Bayou place seem alot like Eau Claire market?

Boris, what did you think of Houston?

[S_B_Russell]

Calgary Is Like Houston - But With More Assholes.

[Boris2k7]

Ah, good old Bayou Place. I don't know about you, but didn't Bayou place seem alot like Eau Claire market?

Boris, what did you think of Houston?

Houston? Well, mixed feelings. Only been there once, that was to visit my aunt and uncle back in 2005. Stayed for a little over a week and also got out to Galveston and San Antonio.

Houston's urban form makes Calgary look like paradise. It has seemingly endless sprawl and freeways, and a relatively dead downtown as well.

However, Houston definately has things going on which make Calgary look very small town. For instance, their investments in rapid transit in recent years have been fairly impressive, their museums and galleries are bigger and better than ours, there are way more distinct neighbourhoods... ex. the galleria area, the museum district... a lot like L.A. in that respect, actually.

[Doug]

The Elbow can't even come close to the Ottawa river in terms of raw sewage discharge or pulp mill effluent.

[freeweed]

The Elbow can't even come close to the Ottawa river in terms of raw sewage discharge or pulp mill effluent.

Same could be said for the air and water quality in much of southern Ontario, but don't forget, Calgary has a *snicker* smog *chuckle* problem *guffaw* too!

*passes out laughing*

[Big Sky]

Calgary Is Like Houston - But With More Assholes.

Is that the most intelligent post you could come up with? You're making your own city like like a bunch of assholes when you post something. Edmontonian forumers, I'm not saying you guys are jerks, I know this dumbass isn't representative of the city.

[Big Sky]

Houston's urban form makes Calgary look like paradise. It has seemingly endless sprawl and freeways, and a relatively dead downtown as well.



No arguments from me.

I've been to Houston a few times, and I find it too spread out and reliant on the car.

[Western Spaghetti]

Is that the most intelligent post you could come up with? You're making your own city like like a bunch of assholes when you post something. Edmontonian forumers, I'm not saying you guys are jerks, I know this dumbass isn't representative of the city.

Go easy on the guy, most people,don't know it, but he's mentally challenged.

[Rusty van Reddick]

Aside from similarly energy-based economies, Houston (and Dallas) and Calgary have NOTHING in common. They are completely different demographically, geographically, climatologically. They are very, very, very different sizes. They do not have similar urban forms on any dimension. They are dissimilar with respect to costs of living (Houston is MUCH cheaper than Calgary). They are completely different with respect to what might be called ideology: Calgary is one of the most secular cities in NA, and Houston is one of the most religious.

Houston also has some great funky districts and an arts scene that Calgary should aspire to, so it's not as if Houston is all bad. Houston also is one of the main immigration magnets in the US and is much more ethnically diverse than one might expect for cities in Texas. But Calgary and Houston are as similar as San Jose and Bangalore, or Los Angeles and Mumbai. Similar industries don't necessarily make for similar cities.

[wild wild west]

Re: the Ottawa and Calgary comparison: Having lived in both cities, I would say that about the only things the two cities have in common are population and the colours of their hockey team jerseys. That said, both are great places to live - I think one would be hard pressed to find a place that offers a better quality of life than either one offers.

[Surrealplaces]

Re: the Ottawa and Calgary comparison: Having lived in both cities, I would say that about the only things the two cities have in common are population and the colours of their hockey team jerseys. That said, both are great places to live - I think one would be hard pressed to find a place that offers a better quality of life than either one offers.

Yeah, both cities are nice. I haven't lived in Ottawa, but I've spent lots of time there as my wife is from there.

Aside from similarly energy-based economies, Houston (and Dallas) and Calgary have NOTHING in common. They are completely different demographically, geographically, climatologically. They are very, very, very different sizes. They do not have similar urban forms on any dimension. They are dissimilar with respect to costs of living (Houston is MUCH cheaper than Calgary). They are completely different with respect to what might be called ideology: Calgary is one of the most secular cities in NA, and Houston is one of the most religious.

Houston also has some great funky districts and an arts scene that Calgary should aspire to, so it's not as if Houston is all bad. Houston also is one of the main immigration magnets in the US and is much more ethnically diverse than one might expect for cities in Texas. But Calgary and Houston are as similar as San Jose and Bangalore, or Los Angeles and Mumbai. Similar industries don't necessarily make for similar cities.

Couldn't agree more. IMO Houston and Calgary are nothing alike. I find the same thing for Calgary and Dallas, and Austin vs Edmonton, etc.... All of these comparisons. The closest I've seen to Calgary is probably Denver, and that is mainly for a few reasons

-Geographically they are similar with the mountains to the west and prairie to the east
-Both have a similar outdoor scene, with snowboarding/mountain biking etc..
-The downtowns (CBDs) actually feel quite a bit alike.


Outside of that, they don't have much in common.

[Rusty van Reddick]

I wish Calgary had one-fifth the Mexican population of Denver just so we'd get a decent taqueria or two here!

[Aylmer]

Question;
dose it bother the slightest of people to know that the calgarian urban footprint is only slightly smaller than NewYork and it's boroughs?
Calgary may have the boom but not the population zoom!

[The Kid]

Question;
dose it bother the slightest of people to know that the calgarian urban footprint is only slightly smaller than NewYork and it's boroughs?
Calgary may have the boom but not the population zoom!

Not "the population zoom"?? While we are not New York, Calgary has been posting massive growth year after year for the better part of a decade. Not sure what your definition of "zoom" is.:shrug: