[Coldrsx]

probably in parallel or perpendicular to em?

seriously though, how does Edmonton fair in comparison? I know we complain a lot here, but if you take our size and go look at many other cities, we are doing very very well on most aspects.

thoughts?

[S_B_Russell]

I never really appreciated Edmonton until I started to travel. For our size and location we're not bad and hopefully improving. I know when I've had friends from outside of Canada (NYC and Australia) visit they've always had a good time and been pleasantly surprised with all the things to do in the city.

[Calgarian]

I think most of the thing's brought up in the Calgary version of this thread would like apply to Edmonton as well.

[Xelebes]

We love you too, Butte.

[S_B_Russell]

^nothing to discuss here. Move along.

[Hootch]

Austin, Texas is a comparison I hear all the time.

*both liberal (in comparison to the rest of the province/state) cities
*both capitals
*almost the same size
*huge art and culture influence

anything else I'm missing?

[240glt]

I've heard that comparison too.

Having never been to Austin, I can't confirm or deny it

[Kevin_foster]

I'd say we're more relaxed than Calgary, less cosmopolitan, a little more liberal and a little more artsy. Perhaps it's due to the UofA and the role it plays in our city. This isn't a bash on Edmonton or Calgary, just an observation and I'm sure others will agree.

These days I really feel Edmonton is still quite a young city on the rise. It seems we're starting to make some real strives in the right direction (LRT, TOD, Transit HUB etc.) - our city council REALLY seems to GET IT (although sometimes I'm not so confident).

Having traveled much of the world, and the USA, I honestly cannot compare Edmonton to any other city - except maybe Austin. Austin definitely felt Edmonton-ish.

[Dave D.]

I grew up in Edmonton and then got dragged away to the Okanagan in my teens by my parents, who were semi-retiring. I have brought several friends from BC back to Edmonton over the years and many have been far more impressed than they expected to be.
Here's some of the things they loved:

They were expecting totally flat land and few trees. Taken into areas such as Mill Creek Ravine and the Whitemud Nature Preserve, they could not believe how green the city is. One or two said "It's actually beautiful and I never expected it to be."

They were also impressed by the size (length) of the skyline, the diversity of neat restaurants and great shopping with no sales tax. They also thought the city seemed bigger than its population in terms of how spread out it is and all it has to offer. Personally I will always have a love for Edmonton and my only wish is to see some great new tall buildings on the skyline and greater civic pride in what I believe is a gem in Canada. Many people apologize for being from Edmonton. That irks me.

[Coldrsx]

also a smaller minneapolis/st.paul....

how do we compare to Kansas city, st.louis, baltimore, nashville's of the world.

[murman]

Friends who relocated to Texas many years ago say Houston = Calgary and Edmonton = Dallas Fort Worth.

I would have said Dallas = Calgary and Fort Worth = Edmonton.

[ExcaliburKid]

I agree Cold, I've been to Minny a number of times, and each time it reminds me of home. A lot more sprawled out mind you, but the Edmonton feel is certainly there, for me anyway. Similar landscape, save for the river valley, and very sports minded. I never feel uncomfortable there, and when business associates from Minny visit us here, they have the same sentiments.

[S_B_Russell]

I've been to Austin and I do see some comparisons between the two centres - except Austin's housing is way cheaper and it is a heck of a lot warmer.

[Spencer]

also a smaller minneapolis/st.paul....

how do we compare to Kansas city, st.louis, baltimore, nashville's of the world.

I've been to Baltimoreand it is really nothing like Edmonton. In a way it felt similar to Vancouver except a lot older and not as nice. Also, if you think East Hastings is bad go to the "hood" in Baltimore. I had a tour with a collegue who lived there and it makes East Hastings feel like Glenora. Why it felt like Vancouver? It is a waterfront city "Cheasapeke (sp?) Bay" and most of the downtown area is around the bay. It was very green and very industrial outside of the downtown area.

I have however heard from numerous americans that Edmonton is simialr to Dallas except smaller, Austin and Denver. Suprisingly, the guy I heard Denver from is from Denver and he said Denver is a lot more like Edmonton than Calgary. I thought it'd be the other way.

[Calgarian]

Edmonton is kind of boring as a city (I really mean no offence when I say this), whether that's the Calgarian in me speaking I don't know, but there is something about your city that's lacking, even when compared to Calgary (which also has a reputation as a somewhat boring city). Aside from the mall and the river valley, Edmonton is not a pretty city. If there is one thing I would reccomend, it's the beautification of Edmonton that's most pressing. I would say that you need to improve the touristy areas of your city as well. Calgary is not much better in this regard, but we seem to be turning the corner. I can't really speak to the attitude of Edmontonians, but here, we are getting fed up with mediocre design, and uninspired developers building what they want, and are forcing them to consider the public realm and the impact on the city when they draw up their plans. Is the same thing happening there?

It pains me greatly in saying this, but I think while Calgary is the Alberta city of today, Edmonton has a good chance to once again be the Alberta city in the future. I have to give Edmonton props for it's efforts to become a world leader in medical r&d, as well as in the tech sector, while maintaining it's status as the staging point for the oil industry. Also I have to give Edmonton props for the number and calibre of it's summer festivals, even though I've never been, I know a ton of people who have, and I hear they are definitely better than Calgary's.

[Hardhatdan]

Edmonton is kind of boring as a city (I really mean no offence when I say this), whether that's the Calgarian in me speaking I don't know, but there is something about your city that's lacking, even when compared to Calgary (which also has a reputation as a somewhat boring city). Aside from the mall and the river valley, Edmonton is not a pretty city. If there is one thing I would reccomend, it's the beautification of Edmonton that's most pressing. I would say that you need to improve the touristy areas of your city as well. Calgary is not much better in this regard, but we seem to be turning the corner. I can't really speak to the attitude of Edmontonians, but here, we are getting fed up with mediocre design, and uninspired developers building what they want, and are forcing them to consider the public realm and the impact on the city when they draw up their plans. Is the same thing happening there?

It pains me greatly in saying this, but I think while Calgary is the Alberta city of today, Edmonton has a good chance to once again be the Alberta city in the future. I have to give Edmonton props for it's efforts to become a world leader in medical r&d, as well as in the tech sector, while maintaining it's status as the staging point for the oil industry. Also I have to give Edmonton props for the number and calibre of it's summer festivals, even though I've never been, I know a ton of people who have, and I hear they are definitely better than Calgary's.
giggle

[ibz]

Calgary is where I stop for lunch on my way to Banff. I usually hit all the interesting tourist spots when I do this, Peters Drive In, uhhh...hmmm

[Boris2k7]

Personally I will always have a love for Edmonton and my only wish is to see some great new tall buildings on the skyline and greater civic pride in what I believe is a gem in Canada. Many people apologize for being from Edmonton. That irks me.

Heh, everytime I mention that I'm originally from Edmonton, I always get told that "it's okay, we won't hold it against you."

... I've learned to live with it over the years... :hahano:

[Calgarian]

Boris, your avatar is damn creepy. lol

[Coldrsx]

Edmonton and calgary are the same for visitors IMO for things to do and the such, but the thing calgary does much better is feel like a big city, feel cleaner, hide the undesirable parts.

[tkoe]

One slightly critical comment in a Calgary thread and you've got everyone all over you, and yet in an Edmonton thread we talk about how much work we still need just to be like Minneapolis! Why, oh why do we have to ALWAYS go through this. All these stereotypes are bullshit. We are not like some shitty mid-Western American city. We aren't an also-ran to Calgary. We are all our own and I find that incessant navel-gazing about how we compare to others is asinine and only serves to reinforce just how insecure some forumers are about our city.

[Jay in Cowtown]

I've been to Austin and I do see some comparisons between the two centres - except Austin's housing is way cheaper and it is a heck of a lot warmer.

... and even though it's a college team, the Longhorns would probably kick the shit outta the Eskimos.

[Boris2k7]

Boris, your avatar is damn creepy. lol

You aren't the first to say that... I gots PMs! :D

[Deepstar]

Honestly, I've been to Austin and Dallas and I don't see the Edmonton comparisons to either city, just like I don't see the Calgary comparisons to Houston or Denver or whatever. Denver maybe because of geography is somewhat similar, but really Calgary and Edmonton are simply their own cities.

Many of the comparisons depend one one or two aspects. For example I've heard people compare Edmonton to Houston because both have refineries. I've heard people compare Calgary to Houston because of the oil head offices. I've spent lots of time in Houston and honestly, it's more different than it is similar to either Calgary or Edmonton. Same goes for Austin and Dallas.

[compman3]

Edmonton and calgary are the same for visitors IMO for things to do and the such, but the thing calgary does much better is feel like a big city, feel cleaner, hide the undesirable parts.

Calgary does feel more like a big city to me(roadways, etc), however, both cities, whether Calgary or Edmonton are extremely boring places to live(ie, nightife is horrible in Calgary, slightly better in Edm). I dont think Calgary is anymore exciting, or less than Edmonton. Both are on par in my opinion.

I agree that whenever visitors came to visit me in either Calgary or Edm, there was limited things to show or do with them. I am in the younger demographic(under 35), so just not a whole lot to do.

In my opinion, both cities are comparable to mid sized US cities(Oklahoma City, Salt Lake City, Austin), just with a nicer skyline and crime rates. The metro areas of Dallas, Houston are much larger, so I dont every feel there is a comparison at all. They are more vibrant and fast paced.

I do like the direction that Edmonton is going though, although still highly dependent on oil as well, they have certainly been attempting to diversify the economy(still very dependent though).

[Coldrsx]

^yes...but Edmonton is #2 or 3 in canada for diversification index of major cities.

[bendecido]

I believe that these threads are the byproduct of some weird inferiority complex that we seem to have. I can't quite figure out why we always feel it necessary to compare ourselves with our cousins to the south. I don't know if this is a Canadian thing or it it's an Alberta thing or what. One area that Edmonton and Calgary are definitely different than Austin or Denver, or whatever city you may want to compare them to, is that I bet the residents there wouldn't even think to create a thread like this. My experience is that Americans are confident and generally content with what their home towns have to offer. I don't believe that I have ever had even one conversation with my american friends (I lived in the U.S. for 13 years previously) where they asked me what their home town might be like in comparison to Calgary, or Edmonton, or Vancouver, or Toronto or whatever. They just don't seem to care. So why do we? I just spent a few days in Miami-Dade and let me tell you, apart from the coastal areas, including Miami Beach, the rest of Miami proper is just like any other city - including Edmonton. I saw nothing, absolutely nothing that made Miami more desirable than Edmonton or Calgary. I'm not talking weather and I'm not talking entertainment options, I'm referring to the layout and infrastructure. I left there realizing that being born in Edmonton and raised in Calgary and being an Albertan true-and-true, I have nothting to feel inferior about. I really couldn't care less about what cities we may be like. Calgary is Calgary and Edmonton is Edmonton. Both cities just need to plan and develop themselves properly during these precious boom years so as to create the most vibrant, livable, sustainable cities for the future. And one more thing... I'm even growing tired of the comparison to Vancouver. OMG, doesn't that get old?

:rant:

[Calgarian]

I think the point you are missing bendecido, is that Calgary and Edmonton are undergoing massive change right now, and people just want to know if what we are building will work, or if there are lessons other cities have learned that we could take note of here. When I started the Calgary version of this thread it was the outcome of a discussion in the construction thread around our new library project in comparison to Vancouver and Seattle's, which then turned into a discussion of what was good about those cities. In an attempt to keep the Calgary thread on topic, I started a thread where we could discuss positive and negative things about Calgary in comparison to the rest of the continent. I think Cold saw the potential for a good discussion when he started this thread. I'm not sure about Edmonton, but Calgary definitely doesn't have any sort of inferiority complex (except maybe with Toronto), we are a proud city, and you rarely hear any insecurities from Calgarians with regards to our city, we punch well above our weigh and we know it. As for Edmonton, I'm not sure, I don't spend a lot of time up there.

[WhipperSnapper]

Both cities just need to plan and develop themselves properly during these precious boom years so as to create the most vibrant, livable, sustainable cities for the future.

And this is best accomplished by comparing the successes and failures of others.

The thread title is obviously misleading ... this thread is beyond the dick measuring contest of who has the most highrises, Fortune 500s, Fortune 1000s, Starbucks, Walmarts, McDonalds, Blacks, Hispanics, Whites and whatever else DOMINATING the (American) City Discussion forum.

[bendecido]

Well, the only comparisons I had read up to my post was, "Umm, well, I think Edmonton is most like Austin." I mean, who cares about that kind of thing? I may be dating myself here but do you guys remember the very first televised expansion game of the CFL when (I can't remember which Canadian team it was) they played in Sacramento? Scott Oake of CBC talked to one of the members of the Sacramento organization on air and said something along the lines of, "Whether we want to admit it or not, we Canadians care very much what you Americans think of us. So, what's your opinion of the CFL?" Something like that. The was my first realization that it wasn't just me who seemed to care what they thought of us, but aparently the nation did as well. My only point about my last rant was not to pick on Coldrsx, but to simply point out that comparing ourselves to them really shouldn't interest us. Maybe I'm wrong.

[SpongeG]

i always liked emdonton more - i guess cause i went there more

but i would compare it to minnepolis

[Boris2k7]

Bendecido - that, my friend, is impossible. You cannot simply avoid comparisons to the USA. Those comparisons are a majority of what we would define as contemporary Canadian identity. Canada's relationship to the US plays out in everything from its history, its economy, its politics, down to the TV shows most of us watch and the music we listen to. Why ignore it? In fact I'm surprised that was your first realization of the issue. It is going to become an even bigger issue if the States institute some form of universal health care, because there goes one essence of "Canadianism." And both US and Canadian cities are starting to converge in terms of built form and transportation, among other things.

[Western Spaghetti]

^yes...but Edmonton is #2 or 3 in canada for diversification index of major cities.

Which diversification indexes? I have this mentioned before from, but how are these indexes measured? I don't see it being more diversified than say Vancouver, or Toronto, or Montreal, or cities like Winnipeg. While there are plenty of companies that aren't directly related to energy, a large number are indirectly related.

[HomeInMyShoes]

also a smaller minneapolis/st.paul....

how do we compare to Kansas city, st.louis, baltimore, nashville's of the world.

I lived in Edmonton for 2 and a half years and then St. Louis for 2, so I'll give a go at some points of comparison. Out of cities in Canada, Winnipeg (lived there for 2 years too) feels like St. Louis to me. Just a much deeper architectural history than Edmonton. Which is why I really harp on Edmonton for removing structures from the 50s and 60s because those are a big part of Edmonton's history.

Edmonton also didn't have the atricious donuting effect that St. Louis endured. Wininpeg more closely resembles St. Louis in that respect, but no where near the scale and neither had the 60% population loss from the city into the suburbs itself.

St. Louis and Edmonton are both very civic minded. Lots of public spaces, galleries and fun things to do. St. Louis has an advantage here in that all the major public facilities (zoo, art gallery, history museum) are free to the general public. There is also a similarity in the renewed interest in the core with some condo development and the hint of some commercial interest. I'd point to St. Louis's new baseball stadium and baseball village plans as well ass Kansas City's new arena districts as good examples of things that could be done in Edmonton.

Urban planning wise, St. Louis and Edmonton have similar issues with disparate governments and a multi-nodal feel. St. Louis has Clayton which draws a lot of attention of the smaller-sized financial institutions. It's a suburb city of 15,000 people, but has something like 40,000 employees in the area. You can click on Clayton in my signature for a photo tour of the downtown. In that respect transportation issues in St. Louis and Edmonton are similar in that you have to deal with multi-nodes of importance instead of just funneling people into the core.

And then, there's always the hockey trades which bring the two together. :)

You can view some Clayton by clicking on it in my signature. St. Louis can be viewed in Sayonara, Evening, 6.5 Miles, as well as Amighetti/Bonneville for a specific neighbourhood.

[bendecido]

Bendecido - that, my friend, is impossible. You cannot simply avoid comparisons to the USA. Those comparisons are a majority of what we would define as contemporary Canadian identity. Canada's relationship to the US plays out in everything from its history, its economy, its politics, down to the TV shows most of us watch and the music we listen to. Why ignore it? ...

That's why I originally called them our "cousins" because I know that we have much in common. My point isn't that we shouldn't recognize our unique history and relationship, my point is that we as Canadians really don't need to look up to them as if they got it all together and we don't. We don't need their approval.