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Peanut
11-07-2007, 11:57 PM
Destiny USA Breaks Ground in Syracuse

Robert Congel's Pyramid Companies has finally started work on a 75 million square foot retail, hotel and entertainment complex, touted as the world's most sustainable project
by Jenna M. McKnight

After some highly publicized fits and starts, developer Robert Congel's Pyramid Companies quietly started construction in late July on a 1.3-million-square-foot expansion of the Carousel Center mall in Syracuse, New York. It is intended to be the cornerstone of Destiny USA: a 75-million-square-foot retail, hotel, and entertainment complex touted as the world's most sustainable project.

Congel is moving forward on Destiny thanks to a financing package worth $540 million, including $228 million in federal, tax-exempt green bonds designated for energy-conserving projects. This money, secured in February, was an important vote of confidence for a project that seemed dead in the water in early 2006. At the time, Pyramid and the city of Syracuse were deadlocked in a legal battle over tax abatements, and the community was suffering "promise fatigue" after Congel laid off most of its 210-person workforce.

But Pyramid's legal troubles are now largely resolved. Construction teams from Cianbro are prepping the 10-acre Carousel site—work that includes driving steel piles 140 to 320 feet deep into lakeside clay soil—and Dal Pos Architects, a local firm that designed the original Carousel mall, is working on plans for the expansion's first phase, which is due to be finished by the end of 2008. "A lot of people are breathing a sigh of relief: Okay, finally, here we go," observes Michael Wasylenko, an economics professor at Syracuse University. "We've been talking about this long enough. Now it's happening."

In the short term, Destiny's future is more modest than Congel once envisioned. The first phase will nearly double the 1.5-million-square-foot Carousel Center; unassuming, stepped concrete facades will mimic the existing, 17-year-old mall's architecture. But Destiny could one day feature 1,000 shops and restaurants, 80,000 hotel rooms, a 40,000-seat arena, a water park, aquarium, and technology park. An enormous glass canopy would encase a large portion of the complex, shielding it from the 110 inches of snow that Syracuse receives on average each year.

Perhaps the most nontraditional aspect is who would actually build Destiny—and how. Congel has conceptualized what he calls a "unified workforce model," whereby the same people who operate power tools on the construction site will later operate cash registers and stock shelves in stores at the mall. While building Destiny, these laborers will follow assembly instructions using handheld computers rather than paper blueprints.

Destiny will also showcase sustainability. The complex will have its own renewable-energy power plant, enabling it to operate independently of fossil fuels. A horizontal elevator system will transport people around the car-free mini-city, and a monorail will connect it to Syracuse's airport and downtown. Pyramid also plans to incorporate more than 3,000 tons of coal ash into sidewalks and other concrete elements—one feature that led the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency to describe Destiny as "the world's largest structure to be built from recycled industrial materials." Congel is beginning to deliver on his green promises in the project's first phase, which aims for LEED Gold certification. Construction vehicles are powered by 100 percent biodiesel fuel, and the building features a storm-water-capture system. In a show of support, the U.S. Green Building Council purchased $50,000 of the tax-exempt green bonds awarded to the project.

As for Destiny's future, the Syracuse Industrial Development Agency agreed to provide Pyramid an undetermined amount in bonds for two additional phases, a 1,000-room hotel and 350,000 square feet of mixed-use space, which must be completed by 2013. But the developer still has a long way to go before securing the estimated $20 billion needed for the entire complex. "There are a lot of people who doubt [the expansion of Carousel] will ever lead to Destiny," says Rick Moriarty, a reporter at The Post-Standard who has written hundreds of stories about the project since it was introduced in 2001. "So many delays, so many false starts. A lot of people think, 'I'll believe it when I see it.' "

David Aitken, a member of Destiny's executive team, responds to such comments by taking the long view: "Like any large project, a lot of coordination needs to take place. We went through a period of challenges getting it off the ground. That is behind us now."

http://www.businessweek.com/innovate/content/nov2007/id2007115_197190.htm?chan=innovation_architecture_top+stories

NYguy
11-08-2007, 12:48 PM
In the short term, Destiny's future is more modest than Congel once envisioned. The first phase will nearly double the 1.5-million-square-foot Carousel Center; unassuming, stepped concrete facades will mimic the existing, 17-year-old mall's architecture.

But Destiny could one day feature 1,000 shops and restaurants, 80,000 hotel rooms, a 40,000-seat arena, a water park, aquarium, and technology park. An enormous glass canopy would encase a large portion of the complex, shielding it from the 110 inches of snow that Syracuse receives on average each year.

It's great to see this thing finally moving.

tdawg
11-08-2007, 06:02 PM
80,000 hotel rooms? Isn't that somewhere near the total of the entire city of Atlanta? Seems very pie-in-the-sky or borderline insane. Also, i smell disaster for a glass canopy holding up 110 inches of snow.

Peanut
11-08-2007, 06:23 PM
80,000 hotel rooms? Isn't that somewhere near the total of the entire city of Atlanta? Seems very pie-in-the-sky or borderline insane. Also, i smell disaster for a glass canopy holding up 110 inches of snow.


Think defroster on a car window, yea 80,000 hotels does seem like alot

brickell
11-08-2007, 07:08 PM
what kind of renewable energy are they going to use? Nothing about this project makes sense to me.

Peanut
11-08-2007, 10:05 PM
Chicago --The partnership that Robert Congel formed with government to build the Destiny USA project is a model that communities throughout the nation can use to redevelop polluted lands with no cost or risk to local taxpayers, Congel told a green-building conference here today.

"It can be used everywhere," the developer said at a seminar attended by about 200 people at Greenbuild 2007, the U.S. Green Building Council's annual conference and expo. "All you need is a piece of land so polluted, nobody would ever build on it. The Rust Belt is full of this stuff."

In an unprecedented deal with the city of Syracuse and Onondaga County, Congel's Carousel Center shopping mall -- and the Destiny USA retail and entertainment complex that is to grow from it -- are exempted from most property taxes for 30 years.

The developer is plowing the money saved in taxes into the project, which he promises will be built and operated without the use of fossil fuels. Though the city and county lose out on property taxes, they expect to more than make up for it through increased sales tax revenue, tourism and jobs created by the project.

In addition, Congel is tapping into generous tax credits available through the state Empire Zone program, state brownfield investment credits, the federal Empowerment Zone and up to $1 billion in tax-free borrowing authority under the federal Green Bonds legislation.

Dan Tomson, managing director of Citigroup Global Markets Inc., said the money that otherwise would be going to pay taxes will pay for approximately 67 percent of the cost of the project. Citigroup was the major lender for the project's $540 million first phase, a 1.3-million-square-foot Carousel Center addition that began construction in March.

Congel announced at the conference that the next phase of the project will be a $450 million, 1,342-room hotel and conference center, the largest hotel in the state outside of New York City and, at 640 feet, the tallest building in the state outside of New York City.

Read more of the story by Staff Writer Rick Moriarty in Friday's Post-Standard.

http://blog.syracuse.com/news/2007/11/news_23.html

Peanut
11-09-2007, 12:42 PM
Pirro calls on Legislature to approve Destiny measures
Updated: 11/8/2007 4:56 PM
By: Web Staff

SYRACUSE, N.Y. -- Falling in line with Destiny's plans, Onondaga County Executive Nick Pirro will call on the county Legislature to approve four local measures aimed at using the project as a catalyst for additional development and economic activity.

They include the sale of 36 and a half acres of unused county-owned land on the southeastern shore of Onondaga Lake for additional lodging and recreational features; the sale of a 51-acre parcel of land in the town of Salina for Pyramid's Research and Development site;the dedication of new room occupancy tax revenue generated by the hotels in the lakefront area for a new global destination marketing program to help draw visitors to the new Destiny project; and finally, supplying immediate funding for the Syracuse Convention and Visitors Bureau to launch a marketing initiative.

FerrariEnzo
11-19-2007, 09:24 PM
75 million square feet... snazzy renderings... enviromental promises... sounds great... haha i dont know about you guys but looks like a mall renovation to me. All that hoop la and you now have 1.3 million square feet and they have to drill 150 feet to get bedrock for stability? The whole area will sink with 75 million... but by the time it is actualy 75 million it will be the year 3456 and technology will allow for it. waff away the smoke and remove the mirrors

James Bond Agent 007
11-20-2007, 12:16 AM
*Awaits inevitable news several years henceforth about DestinyUSA financial problems*

Jasonhouse
11-29-2007, 09:04 PM
*music playing*

soooomewheeeere ooovvveeer the raaaainbow...

Peanut
11-29-2007, 10:41 PM
lol, you guys can make fun of it if you want but it is under contruction. If i lived in NY i would take pictures. Either way Phase 1 will be completed (it has to to collect the onondaga county tax breaks) Phase 2 would bring in State and Govt green bonds.

I actually read a story on Christmas shopping at the mall and this year could be a record year for them. With the American dollar falling, Canadians are going to syracuse more than they have ever had.

Ive seen this project from its birth way back when, and i believe it will get built. I cannot say it will get built the way they want it too, but any construction is great for Syracuse.

Jasonhouse
11-29-2007, 10:46 PM
You can put shit in a beautiful box and wrap it up in gold ribbon and market the hell out of it... But at the end of the day, you're still selling a box of shit.

There's a reason that LV, Orlando etc are where they are, and not in the northeastern snowbelt. :crazy:

mhays
11-29-2007, 11:10 PM
A mall is under construction. To say "DestiNY" is under construction is a huge exaggeration.

The staffing concept has utterly zero chance of happening, and is an insult to every construction professional, both hourly and salaried. It also shows an absurd lack of understanding of how people's careers progress.

80,000 hotel rooms don't have any chance of happening either.

Any professional who's attached to this project knows these things already, and is simply trying to get the bits that do happen, like the mall. The Phase II hotel could happen too, though it's definitely going to be a much simpler design than the drawings we've seen.

Crawford
11-30-2007, 12:02 AM
You can put shit in a beautiful box and wrap it up in gold ribbon and market the hell out of it... But at the end of the day, you're still selling a box of shit.

There's a reason that LV, Orlando etc are where they are, and not in the northeastern snowbelt. :crazy:

Actually, I think that many people would say the climate in LV and Orlando is pretty much the aforementioned box of mierda.

At least Syracuse is nice for half the year.

Civvik
02-06-2008, 09:16 PM
Actually, I think that many people would say the climate in LV and Orlando is pretty much the aforementioned box of mierda.

At least Syracuse is nice for half the year.

As a resident of Orlando for 12 months now from Chicago, I can confidently say that the weather is great, and that anyone in the north who says otherwise is simply downplaying a facet of their home turf that they can never change.

Chicago in Summer: 90
Orlando in Summer: 90

Chicago in Winter: 5
Orlando in Winter: 75

Oh and to stay on topic...this project is ludicrous.

Peanut
02-06-2008, 10:22 PM
As a resident of Orlando for 12 months now from Chicago, I can confidently say that the weather is great, and that anyone in the north who says otherwise is simply downplaying a facet of their home turf that they can never change.

Chicago in Summer: 90
Orlando in Summer: 90

Chicago in Winter: 5
Orlando in Winter: 75

Oh and to stay on topic...this project is ludicrous.

some people like myself enjoy 4 seasons. In hawaii its 2 seasons, The Rainy Season and Summer. My favorite Season is Fall but thats just my opinion.

Also there are lots of people who enjoy skiing , Snowboaring, snowmobling, etc, etc. The City of Syracuse isnt too great for winter sports but it is surrounded by great areas for these activities.

Crawford
02-07-2008, 12:23 AM
As a resident of Orlando for 12 months now from Chicago, I can confidently say that the weather is great, and that anyone in the north who says otherwise is simply downplaying a facet of their home turf that they can never change.

Chicago in Summer: 90
Orlando in Summer: 90

Chicago in Winter: 5
Orlando in Winter: 75

Oh and to stay on topic...this project is ludicrous.

Um, Syracuse isn't anywhere near Chicago, so I have no idea what this comparison means.

Also, I live nowhere near Syracuse, and it has never been my "home turf". I live in Brooklyn, which has completely different weather.

Upstate NY in summer is MUCH cooler and less humid than Orlando (or than Chicago for that matter). Orlando has horrendous weather for half the year, and is unliveable without air conditioning. You don't even need air conditioning in upstate NY.

And Orlando winters are still kinda cool. Homes have heat and everyone wears coats and heavy winter clothes. Orlando is a far cry from "tropical".

As for this project being "ludicrous", you live in Orlando, which is home to a project 1000 times more ludicrous, yet it worked out quite well for Central Florida. Time will tell if Destiny can do the same.

Scruffy
02-07-2008, 01:37 AM
any renders?

brian_b
02-07-2008, 02:31 AM
I remember a thread about this a year or two ago. It sounded really crazy. But then again, so did the Chicago Spire.

Good luck to the developer, he's going to need it. But I am happy that people are starting to give big sustainable projects a try!



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