[SteelTown]

Concert hall, parking lot, hotel part of core revival

Nicole Macintyre
The Hamilton Spectator
(Nov 9, 2007)

Three major private projects promise to boost downtown Hamilton with lights, music and better parking.

The demolition of the old HMP dealership at the corner of Bay and Main streets is underway to make room for a new Hilton Homewood Suites. Developer Darko Vranich is behind the 15-storey hotel.

Just blocks away, Vranich's son Denis is planning to tear down a burned out apartment building at the corner of Hess and King streets to build a concert theatre the size of Toronto's Massey Hall.

"What it will do for Hess Village is huge," said Gord Moodie, the city's co-ordinator of downtown municipal incentives

He said the building's previous owner was proposing an 18-storey condo tower that didn't fit with the neighbourhood. The concert theatre, based on the House of Blues venue in Dallas, will make the village an attraction year round and help with noise complaints by bringing music inside, said Moodie. "I think we'll see a lot more restaurants instead of bars in the village."

Moodie expects the approximately $15-million project, which would qualify for a tax break, to start in the spring and take about 18 months to complete. A new parking structure already approved between Hess and Caroline will be perfectly placed to serve concertgoers, said Moodie.

On the other side of downtown, the city's new development corporation has made its first offer on a parking lot behind the old Sandbar Tavern.

Moodie said the $15-million to $20-million proposal features multiple floors of parking combined with retail and residential units.

The activity is a boost for Councillor Bob Bratina.

After months of promising action on the Hilton hotel, he was pleased to see the bulldozers last week.

The hotel will bring life and light to a dark corner. "By 2010, the downtown should be radically different," he said.

[matt602]

Very excited about this one. A theatre hasn't been built downtown in decades now (although I have no idea how old Aquarius is)...

[SteelTown]

Think that was built in the early or mid 90's.

This is one demolition permit that I'm excited to see haha

[matt602]

Indeed. It was wide open one day and I took a look in... the place is completely destroyed inside. No possible reason not to demolish it. I'm surprised it hasn't fallen over by itself.

[ihateittoo]

I think it was in the view, but I saw an ad a couple months ago for something called ROKBAR. I am pretty sure it was this new place. It spoke of high capacity and jazz. Horrible name. I don't have too much hope for this project other than it maybe turning into another large dance club, since I doubt it will fare well as a concert venue if it's expecting a high capacity (my guess is atleast 400-500) We have the westside theatre which is not used as much as it could and the smaller venues have their difficulties. Plus the bands that get that kind of crowd (400-500) in toronto can only usually fill the smaller clubs here, So if it's hoping to be able to draw bands and fill the hall it's either going to have to directly compete with toronto clubs or bring in some expesive and probably horrible canrock talent.

[coalminecanary]

canrock is not usually horrible, and competing with toronto clubs is actually not that hard... we need a medium size venue in hamilton!

[SteelTown]

Hopefully with this new Concert Hall it'll help kick in the redevelopment of King Street West, it's already good but it can always improve.

I like to know what moron in City Hall thought was a good idea to use asphalt instead of cement when it needed to repairs the sidewalks. It looks stupid having cement and asphalt mixed in with the sidewalks along King Street W along the north side. Probably was done to save money as King St W is supposed to get a new streetscape and go two-ways in 2010.

[beanmedic]

Based on the House of Blues in Dallas....hmm....

http://www.hob.com/pics/venues/clubvenues/dallas/pr/112805Elev_Main.pdf
http://www.hob.com/pics/venues/clubvenues/dallas/pr/pr_mainentrance.jpg

http://www.hob.com/pics/venues/clubvenues/dallas/pr/pr_musichall.jpg
http://www.hob.com/pics/venues/clubvenues/dallas/pr/pr_lounge.jpg
http://www.hob.com/pics/venues/clubvenues/dallas/pr/pr_Entry_Lobby.jpg

[SteelTown]

Anybody been to the Avalon ballroom theatre in Niagara Falls? That's a great theatre, so close and intimate. Something like that at Hess Village would be great.

[raisethehammer]

Rokbar was something else I've been told...probably where Vranich's building collapsed.
I've also been told that negotiations are underway to make this an actual House of Blues location. They were going to build one in TO, but the developer there is botching the deal. Apparently all the big sponsors - Labatts etc....have all signed on supporting the Hamilton proposal. that would be HUGE for the city.

[DC83]

wow an actual house of blues venue would be awesome for this city, esp this neighbourhood! Hess already has a great name for itself, this would now make it a destination! Something Hamilton lacks to lure Torontonians etc.

I know I'll be going to a lot more concerts if they're held here rather than like Arrow Hall in Sauga or something.
I hope the theater isn't TOO big. MOst of the best shows I've seen are in bar-like settings.

[Berklon]

I never really thought about a small concert hall in Hamilton... but this would be great for the city.

It's hard to get a grasp of how many seats there are for HOB. Massey Hall holds 2,700 - and it's a great setting for concerts. Looks like HOB would be smaller than that - which is fine as long as it's not too small.

[BCTed]

It's hard to get a grasp of how many seats there are for HOB. Massey Hall holds 2,700 - and it's a great setting for concerts. Looks like HOB would be smaller than that - which is fine as long as it's not too small.

Nah, it's not tough at all to get a grasp of seating capacity at HoB clubs:

From the press release announcing the Dallas location:

http://www.hob.com/aboutHOB/press/pressreleases/index.asp?pid=614

ABOUT HOB ENTERTAINMENT, INC.

HOB Entertainment, Inc., a Los Angeles-based global entertainment company, is the definitive live music brand. Founded in 1992, this dynamic company with soul, spirit and vision is comprised of several unique businesses, including:

House of Blues Clubs, which operate 1,000 - 2,000 capacity venues located in New Orleans, Los Angeles, Chicago, Myrtle Beach, Orlando, Las Vegas, Anaheim, Cleveland, San Diego and Atlantic City .

House of Blues Concerts, Inc., which owns, operates or exclusively books 19 arena and amphitheatre venues throughout North America, including Los Angeles, San Diego, Denver, Dallas, Seattle (The Gorge), Atlanta, Cleveland, Toronto and Vancouver.

[Berklon]

Nah, it's not tough at all to get a grasp of seating capacity at HoB clubs:

Well it is when you're only going by the pictures. ;)

Thanks for posting the information.

1,000-2,000 is good, although I hope it's closer to 2,000 as it would draw some slightly bigger names but will still give that intimate feel.

Even if HOB falls through, a concert hall by any other name is still great.

[raisethehammer]

2,000 isn't really intimate. Hamilton Place holds just over 2,000.
Mind you, Massey Hall in TO has 2,750.

[SteelTown]

Hamilton Place was built for cultural shows like Opera and so the seats aren't close to the theatre that's why it's not intimate.

The Avalon Ballroom at Niagara Falls is 1,500 seats and it's very intimate. It's got super cool chairs and comfy.

http://www.michaelsinn.com/images/avalon-ballroom.jpg
Those chairs at the bottom aren't bolted down so it can be removed and turned into this...

http://www.fallsviewcasinoresort.com/Site/11%20Virtual%20Tour/Content/11%20Virtual%20Tour.Avalon_Image9.GraphicValue.1.0.en.375x265-Avalon-09.jpg
Now with tables

Another great thing about it is that they serve you drinks, you don't have to go up and get a drink, they'll come to you and ask what would you like to drink.

[Berklon]

2,000 isn't really intimate. Hamilton Place holds just over 2,000.
Mind you, Massey Hall in TO has 2,750.

Massey Hall is intimate to me, so anything with less seating should be as well. Hamilton Place isn't as intimate even though it holds 2,200, but that's because it's designed for accoustics and facilites different events such as symphonies, ballets and theatrical performances. The stage is larger and there's room for an orchestra pit - so the audience is seated back further.

*EDIT - basically what Steeltown said.... I got interrupted mid-reply.

[flar]

Hamilton Place is definitely a great venue for orchestra and ballet type stuff. This new place is much needed for louder amplified type stuff. I hope they aren't blowing smoke and construction starts soon.

[raisethehammer]

just found out from city hall that this was released to the public WAY too soon.
nobody there even has any info on it, other than it's what he eventually wants to do on that piece of land.

[flar]

I don't believe this at all now. Just a rumour. The city probably won't even approve it because there won't be enough onsite parking and too much noise.

[raisethehammer]

no, the city knows about it and likes it.
It's just insanely early in planning to be releasing it to the public.
don't worry about parking.
A couple years ago someone wanted to open a Keg at that location, but the city told them they can't have parking. perhaps a few spots in the back for owners/staff, but nothing else.
The entire site plan was to consist of a new Keg building with a huge patio.

[SteelTown]

They'll be a massive parking structure at Main St from Hess to Caroline and it's multi-storey so it'll probably have room to hold hundreds of cars. It's a huge block for a parking structure.

Actually it's already mentioned in the article...

A new parking structure already approved between Hess and Caroline will be perfectly placed to serve concertgoers, said Moodie.

[DC83]

The garage will be built ontop of a Shoppers/LCBO/Staples complex, right?

A new "LCBO" already approved between Hess and Caroline will be perfectly placed to serve concertgoers hehehehehe

[SteelTown]

Yep that's the one. Those are the companies that have signed on already I'm sure they'll be more signing on once the project begins.

[block43]

Would be nice if they could've included a few floors of residential on top. We need more mixed use development to support local businesses downtown.

[coalminecanary]

Would be nice if they could've included a few floors of residential on top. We need more mixed use development to support local businesses downtown.

Would be nice if the city allowed more mixed use zoning... or removed the arcane parking requirement bylaws....

[raisethehammer]

no kidding...the parking requirements in this city are insane.

[markbarbera]

I agree that mixed use would enhance value of the property and the positive impact on the neighbourhood, but residential on top of a concert hall isn't exactly what I would call a perfect mixed use. Drop a dozen floors of office space on top, market it towards music/the arts. That way the space above is empty in the evening hours when concerts would be at the full-blaring volume - not that attractive a selling point for condos.

Or better still, work out a partnership with Mohawk/McMaster similar to the one Ryerson has with the Bay/Dundas development in Toronto (retail on ground floor, classrooms on upper floors).

[block43]

Sorry, I was referring to the shoppers/parking structure for mixed use residential not the concert hall.

[SteelTown]

Hess Village Entertainment District Theatre

The development of a theatre is proposed within the Hess Village Entertainment District creating a 12 month attraction for the district. The development will enhance the attractions of Hess Village as an off-season destination. The theatre is proposed to have a seating capacity of 1500 with a project value estimated between $12,000,000 - $15,000,000.

[SteelTown]

Parking Structure – Main, Caroline, George

The proposed development of a municipally leased parking structure at Main and Caroline Streets features Shoppers Drug Mart, LCBO and other retail uses. Planned for construction in 2008, the development represents $7,000,000 in retail value.

[DC83]

^^ Neat. Where did you find this info, Steeltown?

And Hess isn't already a year-long destination??

[matt602]

I assume if that LCBO comes to fruition, the one at Jackson Square will cease to exist...

[HAMRetrofit]

Both LCBOs in the core could easily be supported. It is brilliant that Hamilton is finely developing parking infrastructure. Perhaps the mass of endless surface lots my soon be developed. The uncontrolled sprawl of greyfields really gets out of hand without sufficient parking infrastructure.

[DC83]

Both LCBOs in the core could easily be supported. It is brilliant that Hamilton is finely developing parking infrastructure. Perhaps the mass of endless surface lots my soon be developed. The uncontrolled sprawl of greyfields really gets out of hand without sufficient parking infrastructure.

100%! The Jackson location is ALWAYS packed (it's super small, too) and closes early.

The (new?) LCBO at Main/Caroline would probably stay open til 10pm like Dundurn currently. So I agree, both could stay open w/o competing w/ eachother. The one at JS is pretty much like an 'LCBO Express' if the brand existed.

[raisethehammer]

where did this info come from??
any timelines for the concert hall??
Dang...Hamilton is on a friggin roll!

[raisethehammer]

found out today that the folks behind the Concert Hall are waiting until they complete the reno's at the Gown and Gavel as well as 15 Hess (the collapsed building) before proceeding with the Concert Hall.

[LikeHamilton]

Owner ordered to stabilize building

TheSpec.com - Local - The Hamilton Spectator (Jun 15, 2010)

Structure at risk of partial collapse; city considering legal action

The City of Hamilton is ordering Denis Vranich to immediately shore up his building at Hess and King that is "not structurally stable" and at risk of partial collapse.

The abandoned apartment building at 275 King St. W. was gutted by a series of fires in the early part of the last decade.

Between 2000 and 2003, there were five fires, including the Oct. 30, 2003 blaze that resulted in the collapse of sections of the roof. No repairs were made, leaving much of the building exposed to the elements.

An inspection "on or about April 8" declared the exposed top-floor walls adjacent to Hess Street unsafe and expressed concern that the walls may collapse.

"We've put up with a lot, so finally an order was issued," said Ward 2 Councillor Bob Bratina.

The building's owner is not in full compliance with the order, but did install fencing to prevent access to areas where debris may fall in the event of a collapse, the city says.

The city had given Vranich until May 5 to fully comply. The city is now considering legal action, a spokesperson said.

"We may have to remedy the situation and charge it against the taxes of the owner."

A call to Vranich's holding company was not returned.

Bratina said the latest move is part of the city's renewed focus on abandoned buildings and complaints by businesses in the King Street West Business Improvement Area.

[realcity]

It'll be a great parking lot for his 3 bars in Hess Village.

Just for the record the Lister had about 5 fires in three years too when it was vacant. It speeds up the demolition by neglect process. And it's always good to have no roof just like the Century.

And "shoring this building up" will result in an "Balfour Oops" "a wall collapsed".

[Jon Dalton]

I'm sure he'd love a parking lot so people can drive home drunk from his bars even easier.

[drpgq]

I sometimes wonder how much money Vranich actually has. Clearly the property has value and could be made into something, even if just redoing the apartments. Yet all these properties just sit there.

[matt602]

It'll be a great parking lot for his 3 bars in Hess Village.

Just for the record the Lister had about 5 fires in three years too when it was vacant. It speeds up the demolition by neglect process. And it's always good to have no roof just like the Century.



For the record, none of those fires did any significant damage to the building as it was built specifically with fire resilient materials (concrete and steel). It certainly had no effect on the demolition by neglect process.

[highwater]

The loss of the roof can't have helped.

[SteelTown]

Guess this proposal is dead with rumours that Denis intend to restore the vacant building as condos.

[SteelTown]

Permit 10-201640-00
Apartments Alteration

Description
Structural alterations only to the interior of the existing 3-storey residential apartment building.

[SteelTown]

275 King Street West (Concert Hall) | ? | ? | Planning -> 275 King Street West | ? | 3 fl | Under Construction

[mattgrande]

How long has this building been in that state? It's been at least four years, I'd guess? Maybe longer?

[bluevue]

so now they have started some form of work...as the winter weather approaches...thanks for shutting down another lane on King Street, with another less than a block away at the Good Sheppard Center. The route will be a nightmare in a few weeks with snow banks imminent.

[CaptainKirk]

so now they have started some form of work...as the winter weather approaches...thanks for shutting down another lane on King Street, with another less than a block away at the Good Sheppard Center. The route will be a nightmare in a few weeks with snow banks imminent.

You don't think the city will clear the snow?

Relax. Progress is good.

[durandy]

has anyone been around the Queen and King area recently? I noticed the lot, I believed Vrancor owns it, a block north on Queen, seems to have some new holes dug in it, and orange fencing - maybe I just never noticed it before, but maybe some testing going on?

[SteelTown]

http://www.hamilton.ca/NR/rdonlyres/002AD283-F71F-4D6D-ABD9-25FC0CF62867/0/Apr04EDRMS_n287811_v1_5_2__PED12033.pdf

That a grant in the estimated amount of $333,652.84 under the Hamilton Downtown Property Improvement Grant Program (HDPIGP) for the Hess Village Real Estate Corporation, owner of the property at 275 King Street West, be authorized and approved in accordance with the terms and conditions of the Program

The applicant is proposing to develop a four-storey, twenty-nine unit apartment building by way of redeveloping the existing derelict three-storey apartment building. The building will be constructed to LEED certified Gold standard.

Development costs are estimated at $4,301,124 and it is projected that the proposed redevelopment will increase the current value assessment (CVA) of the property from its current $448,250 to approximately $3,700,000

[SteelTown]

http://www.hamilton.ca/NR/rdonlyres/D10ABA38-780D-4535-810F-1A9777DB8F1A/0/Apr04EDRMS_n287808_v1_5_1__PED12032.pdf

That a conditional loan commitment totalling $932,500 for the Hess Village Real Estate Corporation, the registered owner of the property at 275 King Street West, be authorized and approved in accordance with the terms and conditions of the Hamilton Downtown Multi-Residential Property Investment Program

[pEte fiSt iN Ur fAce]

Well, I wouldn't give a million bucks to Dennis but...

Perhaps, just maybe something will happen with this property, other than it becoming a parking lot, that is.

[Pearlstreet]

http://www.hamilton.ca/NR/rdonlyres/002AD283-F71F-4D6D-ABD9-25FC0CF62867/0/Apr04EDRMS_n287811_v1_5_2__PED12033.pdf

That a grant in the estimated amount of $333,652.84 under the Hamilton Downtown Property Improvement Grant Program (HDPIGP) for the Hess Village Real Estate Corporation, owner of the property at 275 King Street West, be authorized and approved in accordance with the terms and conditions of the Program

The applicant is proposing to develop a four-storey, twenty-nine unit apartment building by way of redeveloping the existing derelict three-storey apartment building. The building will be constructed to LEED certified Gold standard.

Development costs are estimated at $4,301,124 and it is projected that the proposed redevelopment will increase the current value assessment (CVA) of the property from its current $448,250 to approximately $3,700,000

Sweeeeet! This is close to my place, a black eye I hoped would be erased in no time. Five years since I moved in, but its actually happening. Pinch me.


Also, Steeltown; you are on the ball with finding this... Thank you.

[Pearlstreet]

For those who didn't click and and read the link above, this needs to be seen - wow.

http://i43.tinypic.com/1qh66h.png

[pEte fiSt iN Ur fAce]

Wait just a minute. This is a Dennis / Darko project right? If so, we need to temper our enthusiasm for fairly obvious reasons.

You're new in town, I believe. Do a little research on the family. Dennis is a disaster and his father isn't much better.

Something good may come of this but the fate of 220 Dundurn - another of his properties - still hangs in the balance. We shall see.

[mattgrande]

From Ryan McGreal's twitter: https://twitpic.com/b8q0qp

Looks like there's actually work being done there, now. Nice, considering how long the South lane of King has been blocked off...

[durandy]

work's been crawling along on that site for a few months. Now they're finally doing some forming and pouring but lots of prep before this. Looks like they have about 5 guys working there so pretty low budget.

[Pearlstreet]

Work has begun erecting the interior walls of the top glass floor!

I hope that encourages the nice looking unused buildings across the street to come back to life.

[matt602]

Really good to see this building coming back to life. I'm not a fan of Vranich's past history but I can't argue against this sudden burst of life coming from them. I really hope the recent news on 220 Dundurn will be part of it soon.

Very surprised that they kept the original building too. It's not really terribly fancy but it's nice to see some adaptive re-use.

[bluevue]

You don't think the city will clear the snow?

Relax. Progress is good.


Interesting in that there has been no real progress, just congestion, and we are approaching another winter of reduced lanes here...and now the city wants to start imposing changes to lane closures...sorry...a little late to the parts.

[pEte fiSt iN Ur fAce]

Congestion?

Hamilton has never had a day a real congestion. Having to slow down or perhaps - on occasion - stop, is not congestion.

[Pigeon]

The quality of construction on this place looks questionable...Not to mention it's been exposed to the elements and absorbing moisture for how long? The new insulation on the top floor addition looks like it was laying in some mud before it was put up, covered in dirt. Im fully expecting the top floor to be clad mostly with stucco...

[Pearlstreet]

http://i50.tinypic.com/2yzfv9i.jpg

They were widening the front windows today, the interior structure also looks very complete when I creeped around to take a look lol.