[CCF]

So the art gallery thread kind of got me thinking...and this is not meant to be city vs city....but how much of Canada's national treasures, offices, employment, etc should be concentrated in Ottawa and how much should be spread out to other cities across Canada. That is to say...how much should be decentralized, if any?

Speaking in regards to Regina, it has benefited from decentralization in that it's home to the head office of Farm Credit Canada, the first Service Canada College and in a few months the head office of the Canadian Police Research Centre, all of which are run by the federal government. Of course it is also home to the RCMP Depot which also spurred the development of the RCMP Heritage Centre, the first national museum west of Ottawa.

Should this be the norm, or should the head offices be kept in Ottawa, with only regional offices outside the NRC?

It makes some sense, again speaking from the Regina context, to have FCC established here given the history of agriculture in the province, as well as the Police Research Centre given the other facilities previously established (RCMP Depot, Saskatchewan Police College, etc) On the flip side though, I can see how this would be upsetting to Ottawa.

Thoughts...if any?

[Boris2k7]

I don't think there should really be any argument. To add more examples, the National Energy Board is located in a highly-visible location in Downtown Calgary. Which only makes sense... considering we are the center of the Canadian Energy Industry.

[Jamaican-Phoenix]

I think that anything that has "National" as part of its title should be in Ottawa, since it's the National Capital.

And hey, just because we have the National Arts Centre and the National Gallery of Canada, doesn't mean that there are no high profile theatres or galleries in Toronto, Montreal or Vancouver... :rolleyes:

[CCF]

Indeed...and in such examples it makes sense.

But what about in cases where they are making the moves to bring "development" to economically weaker regions. I believe this was the case when they considered moving the 400 employees of the Translation Bureau in the Department of Public Works to New Brunswick. THat being said though, I don't believe this ever went through? Correct me if I am wrong.

[someone123]

Government jobs often don't bring real "development" in the way that private sector jobs do. I would also imagine that there's a big cost involved in moving offices out to places where few skilled workers want to live.

That being said, I think it is unfortunate how Ottawa is not a federal capital district. It's not neutral ground where national funding can be pooled fairly with more or less equal benefit for everybody.

I also wonder if Ottawa is really a special "national capital" at this point or if it is not just another city that also happens to have the power to confiscate money from other places whenever the locals feel it's time for more pork barreling.

[trueviking]

the RCMP museum isnt a national museum is it?....when did this happen?

wheat board is in winnipeg (until harper kills it)...if it makes sense to have a national office in a city then why not?

[raggedy13]

The Canadian Tourism Commission office was moved from Ottawa to Vancouver in 2005.

Editor's Note: CTC move a rallying cry for Ottawa
By Leo Valiquette, Ottawa Business Journal Staff
Mon, Apr 4, 2005 8:00 AM EST

It would appear that some of those marketing dollars collected by local hoteliers through the destination marketing fee should have been used to sell the merits of Ottawa to the federal government.

Last week's decision by the federal Liberals to transfer the Canadian Tourism Commission's HQ to Vancouver from Ottawa was accompanied by a statement from Prime Minister Paul Martin touting the advantages of British Columbia. The Prime Minister cited B.C.'s "vibrant tourist market" and upcoming events such as the 2010 Winter Olympics.

With the Liberal minority government eager to curry favour with all corners of Canada under the pretense of building a public service representative of the entire country, Ottawa is certain to serve as the sacrificial lamb. The hiring spree that drove local federal employment to a decade high under the majority government of Jean Chretien is already ancient history. Mr. Martin cannot afford to lead a government that appears to favour concentrating the public service in a few key centres in central Canada. For Ottawa, this sets the stage for an exodus every bit as harmful, if not more so, to the local economy than the contraction of the telecom industry and the loss of those tens of thousands of jobs.

But why British Columbia? Proponents of the move cite the importance of the developing Asia-Pacific economy in addition to the province's own appeal. Mr. Martin emphasized last week that the commission would "continue to serve the interests of all Canadians" wherever it may headquartered. Try and sell that to the residents of Eastern Canada in light of the continental divide that will now separate the Maritimes' tourism sector from the decision makers at the commission. Should a politically-motivated decision such as this not pay at least some attention to the effectiveness of a department to carry out its mandate? If Mr. Martin wants to court the western vote, a more reasonable compromise would have been Calgary, a far more central location on the Canadian map than Vancouver. (Calgary, after all, does have its share of high-profile tourism draws, such as a little affair known as the Stampede and a place called Banff).

Former commission president and local MPP Jim Watson has condemned the move, while current president Michele McKenzie was just as quick to endorse it. She made it clear the commission is hoping to piggyback on the upcoming 2010 Olympics "to boost tourism revenues across the country."

How exactly an event in B.C., as grand in scale and scope as it may be, can drive tourism revenues across Canada, remains to be seen.

Speaking with the OBJ last week, Mr. Watson pointed out that the majority of commission staff are not likely to relocate, meaning a turnover that will lead to significant disruption of operations at a time when the tourism sector remains at a fragile stage of its recovery from the recent setbacks such as the SARS outbreak. Since the 2010 Olympics is a one-time event, he suggested it would have made more sense to set up a special task force in Vancouver to take advantage of the marketing opportunity presented by the Olympics, rather than relocating the entire commission.

When it comes to gauging the impact of any decision by the federal government, there are always two Ottawas in the line of fire. In the big picture, this is a relatively small department and the labour impact on Ottawa minimal at about 100 jobs. Whatever may be coming next, this departmental relocation is a mere pinprick that will barely be felt by a local public service that numbers well over 100,000.

For local community, however, this is an obvious blow that Ottawa's politicians, at all levels, should not allow to go unanswered. Why should Vancouver, due to a single event five years off, be considered the poster child for tourism in Canada? Ottawa is, after all, the nation's capital, home to a number of events and venues, many of which speak to Canada's proud history and presence on the global stage, such as the Tulip Festival and the new War Museum. When it comes to tailoring Canada's image for the world, Ottawa should always be, by default, front and centre.

[raggedy13]

^I highlighted the parts I found funny.

Such as "Try and sell that to the residents of Eastern Canada in light of the continental divide that will now separate the Maritimes' tourism sector from the decision makers at the commission."

Rather ironic considering the distance Ottawa is from the west. The inconvenience of having the office in Ottawa was no different to Vancouver than the inconvenience that would be done to the Maritimes, especially considering that Vancouver is a bigger tourist draw than either Ottawa or any Maritime centre.

And then "If Mr. Martin wants to court the western vote, a more reasonable compromise would have been Calgary"

Does having it in Calgary really make that much of a difference to Ottawa that they would prefer it over Vancouver? Would this article not have been complaining if it had in fact been moved from Ottawa to Calgary instead of Vancouver? I doubt it.

"many of which speak to Canada's proud history and presence on the global stage, such as the Tulip Festival"

I hadn't even heard of the Tulip Festival until I first read this article a couple years back. I found this line particularly amusing. Is the Ottawa Tulip Festival really that big of an international draw? Most people I've met outside of Canada don't even know Ottawa is the capital of Canada.

"When it comes to tailoring Canada's image for the world, Ottawa should always be, by default, front and centre."

Why, because Ottawa is the best representative of every facet of Canada? I think not.

Anyways, don't mind me. I love Ottawa, its a great city, but I don't know if it makes sense to have every National entity have its home in Ottawa simply because it is the arbitrary capital city. I'd rather see everything in Toronto, at least it is relevant on the national scene (no burn intended on Ottawa but I can't even remember the last time I heard a news reference to it that wasn't about the goings on of Parliament Hill).

[miketoronto]

The offices should be in Ottawa. It nations capital and we should not reduce that by moving the offices everywhere else.
Maybe Calgary should move its offices around to?

It just makes no sense. All gov departments should be near each other in Ottawa.

The Gov of Canada moved Revenue Canada to Subbury to revive the Sudbury economy. Wonder if it is ever worked.

[feepa]

location in Downtown Calgary. Which only makes sense... considering we are the center of the Canadian Energy Industry.
The center eh? Edmonton, Alberta, Fort McMurray have nothing to do with it? Calgary is the center of something for sure, and thats blown up egos.:banana:

[Greco Roman]

The center eh? Edmonton, Alberta, Fort McMurray have nothing to do with it? Calgary is the center of something for sure, and thats blown up egos.:banana:

Agreed.

[theman23]

Why should they be spread around? Just so a few regionalist Canadians don't have hurt feelings? Nah. If there are legitimate reasons to relocating them, sure. Otherwise, its just a waste of money. Keep it centralized.

[Doug]

Better yet would be to whack 200K+ federal jobs. It's not like the federal government provides much in the way of services, so why does it need 400K employees?

[Jamaican-Phoenix]

I also wonder if Ottawa is really a special "national capital" at this point or if it is not just another city that also happens to have the power to confiscate money from other places whenever the locals feel it's time for more pork barreling.

Ottawa as a city has about as much leeway or power as Corner Brook. I would love to see Ottawa, Gatineau and surrounding areas form a new district/Territory/Province, but I know that will never happen.

Ottawa the city has next to no power. Ottawa as the place of Parliament, hold tremendous power.

It has always irked me that in the news the media always uses "Ottawa" when describing Federal goings on. It gives a false illusion that the city of Ottawa has some sort of tremendous, centralized power, but the reality is that the city of Ottawa gets the same treatment as all other Canadian cities with the exception of Toronto.

And while I'm on my rant, can someone please tell me why some Quebecers believe that Ottawans don't have to pay GST?

A friend of mine from Bagotville thought that we never had to pay GST in Ottawa because we were the capital... :haha:

[biggiebear]

My mother is actually the president of Assisted Reproduction Canada, which falls under Health Canada. Her office in Ottawa is in the process of being relocated to Vancouver. Which I'm sure has nothing to do with Vancouvers sperm count.:haha:

[ReginaGuy]

the RCMP museum isnt a national museum is it?....when did this happen?

The new "RCMP Museum" (it's called the 'RCMP Heritage Centre' now) just moved into a brand new $40 million building this summer. I think it became a National museum as part of the redevelopment

[Only The Lonely..]

The Department of Indian and Northern Affairs should be moved to Winnipeg. It makes me sick thinking about the levels of Aboriginal poverty in Winnipeg's inner-city and then going to Ottawa and seeing an office building staffed with white people who have never even seen a native.


Fifty years ago, in the 1951 Census, only 210 of Winnipeg’s population of 354,000 were identified as registered Indians
By the 1996 Census, 45,750 Winnipeg residents identified themselves as North American Indian, Metis or Inuit.

. . .

As well as being the largest Aboriginal community in Canada, Aboriginal people in Winnipeg make up a larger proportion of the population in Winnipeg than most large Canadian cities. Aboriginal people comprise less than 1% of the population of Toronto and Montreal, 1.7% in Vancouver and 1.9% in Calgary, rising to 3.8% in Edmonton, 5.9% in Thunder Bay and 6.9% in Winnipeg. Only the Saskatchewan cities of Regina and Saskatoon have a higher proportion of Aboriginal people (7.1% and 7.5%).



Truthfully, there's some places in this town that can only be described as Indian ghetto's. Why aren't decisions related to the social services these people need made closer to home?

[CCF]

Ralph Goodale attempted to have the head office of INAC (Indian and Northern Affairs Canada) moved to Regina during the Liberal's tenure, but it never happened.

[Dalreg]

So the art gallery thread kind of got me thinking...and this is not meant to be city vs city....but how much of Canada's national treasures, offices, employment, etc should be concentrated in Ottawa and how much should be spread out to other cities across Canada. That is to say...how much should be decentralized, if any?

Speaking in regards to Regina, it has benefited from decentralization in that it's home to the head office of Farm Credit Canada, the first Service Canada College and in a few months the head office of the Canadian Police Research Centre, all of which are run by the federal government. Of course it is also home to the RCMP Depot which also spurred the development of the RCMP Heritage Centre, the first national museum west of Ottawa.

Should this be the norm, or should the head offices be kept in Ottawa, with only regional offices outside the NRC?

It makes some sense, again speaking from the Regina context, to have FCC established here given the history of agriculture in the province, as well as the Police Research Centre given the other facilities previously established (RCMP Depot, Saskatchewan Police College, etc) On the flip side though, I can see how this would be upsetting to Ottawa.

Thoughts...if any?

Makes sense to have certain departments in certain sections of Canada. Say Agriculture in the West, Fishing in the Maritimes etc. But why stop at the Federal level. This could and should be done at the Provincial level in this and most of the other provinces.

[citizen j]

Decentralization has its pros and cons. While it's not seen as great for the Ottawa-Gatineau metropolitan economy to have federal jobs shipped elsewhere, when the axe fell on the public service back in the mid 90s, the devastation to Ottawa was mitigated by the fact that a lot of those jobs eliminated by fiscal belt-tightening had already been "lost" as far as the city was concerned the minute they were sent to politically exigent spots beyond the National Capital Region. If decentralization hadn't occurred, the mid 90s cutbacks would have been a real bloodbath for Ottawa.

[S_B_Russell]

They should move everything to Calgary. Everywhere else blows.

[CC420]

The Gov of Canada moved Revenue Canada to Subbury to revive the Sudbury economy. Wonder if it is ever worked.

WTF!? :koko: Is that really true? I was in Ottawa this past summer and I think I remember driving past the revenue canada castle building. Maybe its not the head office and if so......WTF!? Sudbury is Canada's hole in the ground and deserves to die its slow mining town death. Most of my family lives in Sudbury and man is that town depressing. Thank god my parents got the hell out of that barren wasteland of a town. I'm sorry but if revenue canada isn't going to have its head office in Ottawa like it should then it should be in Canada's business hub of Toronto no matter how painful it is for me to write. ;)

[vid]

Lol, Sudbury is doing worse than Thunder Bay! The fact that most of their office jobs are government jobs is killing them. Thunder Bay is more of a private office city. I can't think of any major federal offices here, it's just the basics that any regional centre would have. (Welfare office, tax office, post office). Most people here didn't actually support the Tories plan to move offices from Toronto to here. We'd rather they work on helping us attract more private offices.

[miketoronto]

Look at the address on your tax return next time. You will notice SUDBURY on it. It was moved there a while ago.

[jeremy_haak]

The headquarter for the CRA are still in Ottawa. Sudbury is simply one of many Tax Centres across the country. Here in Ontario, we're split across several tax centres, including Winnipeg, Sudbury, Shawinigan, St. John's and Summerside, PEI.

Connaught Building, Headquarters of Canada Revenue Agency
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/5/5d/Connaught_Building.JPG

[KrisYYC]

The center eh? Edmonton, Alberta, Fort McMurray have nothing to do with it? Calgary is the center of something for sure, and thats blown up egos.:banana:

And where are the headqaurters for the big energy companies located??? Calgary. Which means most of the power and decision making happens in Calgary.

It's one of the many reasons YYC handles twice the traffic that YEG does ;) :hell:

[jeremy_haak]

For reference. I think the only thing this proves is that the federal government is awfully bloated. I'm also surprised to see Veterans Affairs located in Charlottetown - they used to occupy two large offices right on Wellington in Ottawa. I guess they've shrunk over time.

Departments and Agencies of Govt of Canada:

Headquartered in Ottawa:
*Agriculture and Agri-Food Canada
*Assisted Human Reproduction (possibly moving to Vancouver?)
*Bank of Canada
*Cadets Canada
*Canada Border Services Agency
*Canada Business
*Canada Council for the Arts
*Canada Deposit Insurance Corporation
*Canada Firearms Centre
*Canada Industrial Relations Board
*Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation
*Canada Post Corporation
*Canada Public Service Agency
*Canada Revenue Agency
*Canada School of Public Service
*Canada Science and Technology Museum Corporation
*Canadian Air Transport Security Authority
*Canadian Artists and Producers Professional Relations Tribunal
*Canadian Biodiversity Information Facility
*Canadian Broadcasting Corporation
*Canadian Coast Guard
*Canadian Commercial Corporation
*Canadian Dairy Commission
*Canadian Environmental Assessment Agency
*Canadian Food Inspection Agency
*Canadian Forces Grievance Board
*Canadian Heritage (Gatineau)
*Canadian Human Rights Commission
*Canadian Human Rights Tribunal
*Canadian Institutes of Health Research
*Canadian Intellectual Property Office (Gatineau)
*Canadian Intergovernmental Conference Secretariat
*Canadian International Development Agency (Gatineau)
*Canadian International Trade Tribunal
*Canadian Judicial Council
*Canadian Museum of Civilization Corporation
*Canadian Museum of Nature
*Canadian Nuclear Safety Commission
*Canadian Pari-Mutuel Agency
*Canadian Polar Commission
*Canadian Police College
*Canadian Police Research Centre
*Canadian Radio-television and Telecommunications Commission
*Canadian Security Intelligence Service
*Canadian Transportation Agency
*Citizenship and Immigration Canada
*Commissioner of the Environment and Sustainable Development
*Communications Security Establishment
*Competition Bureau (Gatineau)
*Competition Tribunal
*Copyright Board Canada
*Correctional Service of Canada
*Courts Administration Service
*Criminal Intelligence Service Canada
*Defence Construction Canada
*Defence Research and Development Canada
*Elections Canada
*Employment Insurance Board of Referees
*Environment Canada (Gatineau)
*Environment Protection Review Canada
*Export Development Canada
*Federal Bridge Corporation Ltd.
*Federal Court
*Federal Court of Appeal
*Federal Healthcare Partnership
*Department of Finance Canada
*Financial Consumer Agency of Canada
*Financial Transactions and Reports Analysis Centre of Canada
*Fisheries and Oceans Canada
*Foreign Affairs and International Trade Canada
*Governor General of Canada
*Hazardous Materials Information Review Commission
*Health Canada
*House of Commons
*Human Resources and Social Development Canada
*Immigration and Refugee Board of Canada
*Indian and Northern Affairs Canada (Gatineau)
*Industry Canada
*Infrastructure Canada
*Interagency Advisory Panel on Research Ethics
*International Development Research Centre
*International Joint Commission (and Washington, D.C.)
*Department of Justice Canada
*Library and Archives Canada
*Military Police Complaints Commission
*National Arts Centre
*National Capital Commission
*National Defence and the Canadian Forces
*National Farm Products Council
*National Film Board of Canada
*National Gallery of Canada
*National Joint Council
*National Parole Board
*National Research Council Canada
*National Round Table on the Environment and the Economy
*National Search and Rescue Secretariat
*Natural Resources Canada
*Natural Sciences and Engineering Research Council of Canada
*Networks of Centres of Excellence
*Office of the Auditor General of Canada
*Office of the Commissioner for Federal Judicial Affairs
*Office of the Commissioner of Official Languages
*Office of the Commissioner of Review Tribunals
*Office of the Communications Security Establishment Commissioner
*Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner
*Office of the Information Commissioner of Canada
*Office of the Privacy Commissioner of Canada
*Office of the Registrar of Lobbyists
*Office of the Secretary to the Governor General
*Office of the Superintendent of Financial Institutions
*Parks Canada (Gatineau)
*Parliament of Canada
*Passport Canada (Gatineau)
*Patented Medicine Prices Review Board
*Pension Appeals Board
*Policy Research Initiative
*Prime Minister of Canada
*Privy Council Office
*Public Health Agency of Canada
*Public Prosecution Service of Canada
*Public Safety Canada
*Public Sector Integrity Canada
*Public Sector Pension Investment Board
*Public Service Commission of Canada
*Public Service Labour Relations Board
*Public Service Staffing Tribunal
*Public Works and Government Services Canada (Gatineau)
*Receiver General for Canada
*Royal Canadian Mint
*Royal Canadian Mounted Police
*Security Intelligence Review Committee
*Senate of Canada
*Service Canada (Gatineau)
*Social Sciences and Humanities Research Council
*Species at Risk Act Public Registry
*Standards Council of Canada
*Statistics Canada
*Status of Women Canada
*Supreme Court of Canada
*Tax Court of Canada
*Transport Canada
*Transportation Appeal Tribunal
*Transportation Safety Board of Canada (Gatineau)
*Treasury Board of Canada Secretariat
*

Headquartered elsewhere:
*Atlantic Canada Opportunities Agency (Moncton)
*Atlantic Pilotage Authority (Halifax)
*Atomic Energy of Canada Limited (Mississauga)
*Business Development Bank of Canada (Montreal)
*Canada Economic Development for Quebec Regions (Montreal)
*Canada Lands Company Ltd. (Toronto)
*Canada Pension Plan Investment Board (Toronto)
*Canadian Centre for Occupational Health and Safety (Hamilton)
*Canadian Grain Commission (Winnipeg)
*Canadian Race Relations Foundation (Toronto)
*Canadian Space Agency (Longueuil)
*Canadian Tourism Commission (Vancouver)
*Cape Breton Growth Fund (Sydney)
*Enterprise Cape Breton Corporation (Sydney)
*Farm Credit Canada (Regina)
*Great Lakes Pilotage Authority (Cornwall)
*Laurentian Pilotage Authority (Montreal)
*Marine Atlantic (St. John's)
*National Battlefields Commission (Quebec)
*National Energy Board (Calgary)
*Pacific Pilotage Authority (Vancouver)
*Telefilm Canada (Montreal)
*Veterans Affairs Canada (Charlottetown)
*Veterans Review and Appeal Board (Charlottetown)
*VIA Rail Canada Inc. (Montreal)
*Western Economic Diversification Canada (Edmonton)

[vid]

That's nothing. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_federal_agencies) ;)

[jeremy_haak]

Office of Faith-Based and Community Initiatives
:shrug:

[MolsonExport]

The case would need to be made for centralization. If taxation can be done just as efficiently from say, Sudbury, then why not? Centralize what needs to be centralized, and farm out the rest. Just like major corporations do with back office functions...not everything need be in Toronto or NYC.

[MrChills]

I think that anything that has "National" as part of its title should be in Ottawa, since it's the National Capital.

What a load of shit... No suprise to see that you are located in Ottawa with a narrow minded statement like that. It would be interesting to see how many people on this board have even been to Ottawa, or for that matter EVER plan to visit the city. Nothing against Ottawa, but, if it is a national exihibit and paid for by the taxes of people all across our nation, please explain why it should be located in Ottawa? The federal offices, exhibits, musuems, etc... should be scattered throughout the country.

[Jamaican-Phoenix]

What a load of shit... No suprise to see that you are located in Ottawa with a narrow minded statement like that.

:haha:

And this statement here just proved yours. :haha:

It would be interesting to see how many people on this board have even been to Ottawa, or for that matter EVER plan to visit the city.

Okay.

How many people here or elsewhere on SSP have visited Ottawa or plan to visit?

Nothing against Ottawa, but, if it is a national exihibit and paid for by the taxes of people all across our nation, please explain why it should be located in Ottawa?

The Canadian War Museum and the Museum of Civilization are located in Ottawa and under Prime Minister Jean Chretien, we might've eventually had a Canadian History Museum.

Notice how all of those museums that I've listed deal with Canadian history to a large degree? The Portrait Gallery of Canada would add to that history.

The history of a nation and its people should belong in the Nation's Capital.

I have no problem with Federal Offices moving elsewhere, especially where it's relevant.

Also, in case you haven't noticed, many places already have museums that other cities have. Aviation Museums, Science Museums, art galleries, etc.

Someone even mentioned that it would be possible for a main branch to be established in Ottawa with other portraits touring the country as a constantly changing exhibit.

[BlackRedGold]

The Canadian War Museum and the Museum of Civilization are located in Ottawa and under Prime Minister Jean Chretien, we might've eventually had a Canadian History Museum.

The Museum of Civilization is in Gatineau, not Ottawa.

[citizen j]

Why should anything be located in Ottawa? Are we a country or a union of federated states (i.e., EU)? That is a question without a single answer, since there are those who buy into a centralized version of federal power and others who favour a far more decentralized version of confederation.

[Jamaican-Phoenix]

The Museum of Civilization is in Gatineau, not Ottawa.

Dude, you know what I mean. :rolleyes:

[Mille Sabords]

Ottawa was chosen as the capital for a variety of reasons, the first being that no one could agree and Ottawa was the least objectionable compromise to all the larger bidders at the time. So being turned into a federal capital that way got us scorn, contempt, and probably an unspoken determination that as a city we would never outshine any of the other cities we had dared upstage as the representative city of Canada.

In the name of that unspoken philosophy, the feds destroyed our industry (all LeBreton Flats, downtown Hull, half of Vanier and northern Lowertown were our industrial heart). All our blue collar jobs were wiped out by federal decree. Officially, it's because smokestacks and rail lines were deemed unsightly and undignified for the nation's capital (and it's true that Ottawa was a pretty bad mess by the 1940's). But the deal was, the feds eradicated all the industry and promised everyone good government jobs. The other cities would shine as the real economic and cultural centres.

This was in the name of making us a "good and dignified" national capital, both attractive and economically unthreatening to the other cities.

And now we have to endure all this stuff about sharing federal jobs with the rest of the country?

Tell you guys what, take all the federal jobs you want, you'll see it's not all they're cracked up to be. Turn yourselves into dullsville-on-the-Cubicle farm for all I care, if that's what you call economic development. Maybe then Ottawa will start regaining some real industry and forever shake that government town image the rest of Canada is so happy to associate with us.

Since Canada doesn't seem interested in being a country anyway - we're more like a bunch of random roommates sharing an apartment for the sake of sharing hydro and cable - then we'll go and compete with the rest of the world. The day you, the rest of Canada, are interested in a real national capital, then come see us. Maybe we'll take some of those soul-killing federal jobs back.

[citizen j]

^I think it's not a little coincidental that immediately after the mid-90s cutbacks in federal employment, there was a surge in entrepreneurial IT activity in the capital region. I've always wondered about the cause-effect relationship of that particular set of circumstances. I think if the Tories win a majority next time around, Ottawa better pray for another tech boom. Or get more effective voices on the Government side of Parliament than John Baird et al.

[Jamaican-Phoenix]

Ottawa has great potential as a high-tech city; we just need people who understand that and are willing to move forward in City Hall.

Pardon my language, but FUCK bureaucracy...

[someone123]

Ottawa was chosen as the capital for a variety of reasons, the first being that no one could agree and Ottawa was the least objectionable compromise to all the larger bidders at the time. So being turned into a federal capital that way got us scorn, contempt, and probably an unspoken determination that as a city we would never outshine any of the other cities we had dared upstage as the representative city of Canada.

In the name of that unspoken philosophy, the feds destroyed our industry (all LeBreton Flats, downtown Hull, half of Vanier and northern Lowertown were our industrial heart). All our blue collar jobs were wiped out by federal decree. Officially, it's because smokestacks and rail lines were deemed unsightly and undignified for the nation's capital (and it's true that Ottawa was a pretty bad mess by the 1940's). But the deal was, the feds eradicated all the industry and promised everyone good government jobs. The other cities would shine as the real economic and cultural centres.

This was in the name of making us a "good and dignified" national capital, both attractive and economically unthreatening to the other cities.

And now we have to endure all this stuff about sharing federal jobs with the rest of the country?

Tell you guys what, take all the federal jobs you want, you'll see it's not all they're cracked up to be. Turn yourselves into dullsville-on-the-Cubicle farm for all I care, if that's what you call economic development. Maybe then Ottawa will start regaining some real industry and forever shake that government town image the rest of Canada is so happy to associate with us.

Since Canada doesn't seem interested in being a country anyway - we're more like a bunch of random roommates sharing an apartment for the sake of sharing hydro and cable - then we'll go and compete with the rest of the world. The day you, the rest of Canada, are interested in a real national capital, then come see us. Maybe we'll take some of those soul-killing federal jobs back.

I agree about the cubicle farms but it's very misleading to talk about the city in this way. Pre-Confederation Ottawa had about 15,000 people and was of no special importance. As an industrial city it probably would have ended up being Trois-Rivières. Ottawa also grew more during the Depression than during the 1920s, which gives some indication of how important that eradicated industry was by the mid-twentieth century.

According to Statscan, Ottawa has 117,000 government workers and 661,000 employed. It's also one of two major Canadian cities where the level of federal employment is increasing (up 4000 from 2006-2007; the other is Quebec City, +1400). The rest are mostly staying about the same or going down. Ottawa and Quebec City account for over 75% of Canada's total increase in federal employment from 2005-2006, the most recent years available. Ottawa alone gained nearly 10,000 federal jobs from 2002-2006 while federal employment increased by only about 14,000 in total.

http://www40.statcan.ca/l01/cst01/govt58a.htm

I would say that Ottawa's federal employment is not really at risk at the moment, regardless of what people on SSP say.

[O-Town Hockey]

I would say that Ottawa's federal employment is not really at risk at the moment, regardless of what people on SSP say.

What? SSP forumers don't know everything?
I would have to say that Ottawa is the least likely city to be in trouble if we lost a few Federal Government jobs. We have the most educated workforce in Canada and the high tech industry which took a dive a few years ago has completely changed. We now have a very diverse high tech sector including telecommunications, pharmaceuticals, software development, biotech, and aerospace. I think it would be a good idea to give some jobs to other cities, but first those cities need an educated workforce. There aren't too many cities in Canada that have a large number of unemployed post-secondary graduates. Otherwise, we would just be building infrastructure in....Sudbury for example, and shipping in the workforce from Ottawa. Sounds like a waste of money to me. We have two large Universities, U of O and Carleton with 30000 and 20000 students respectively, with a high proportion of graduates going into some sector of public service. I think it's an ideal setup and that's why the government won't be going anywhere soon.

[Mille Sabords]

I agree about the cubicle farms but it's very misleading to talk about the city in this way. Pre-Confederation Ottawa had about 15,000 people and was of no special importance. As an industrial city it probably would have ended up being Trois-Rivières. Ottawa also grew more during the Depression than during the 1920s, which gives some indication of how important that eradicated industry was by the mid-twentieth century.

Talking about pre-Confederation Ottawa is a moot point. We would've ended up as Trois-Rivières, but we didn't. We became the nation's capital. The point I was driving to is that there was a deliberate federal effort to make us ONLY the nation's capital. That is spelled out in the Gréber Plan for all to see. That kind of state intervention into an entire city's economy is unprecedented. It was done for political reasons as much as for aesthetic and symbolic reasons. Don't you think other cities resented Ottawa's Depression-time growth?

According to Statscan, Ottawa has 117,000 government workers and 661,000 employed. It's also one of two major Canadian cities where the level of federal employment is increasing (up 4000 from 2006-2007; the other is Quebec City, +1400). The rest are mostly staying about the same or going down. Ottawa and Quebec City account for over 75% of Canada's total increase in federal employment from 2005-2006, the most recent years available. Ottawa alone gained nearly 10,000 federal jobs from 2002-2006 while federal employment increased by only about 14,000 in total.

I would say that Ottawa's federal employment is not really at risk at the moment, regardless of what people on SSP say.

In fact federal employment peaked about 2-3 years ago and has been slowly eroding since. The feds aren't making much noise about this but they are not foreseeing a sustained growth in their employment numbers, if anything they will use the aging of the baby-boom to shrink the size of the civil service by attrition.

[wild wild west]

If it makes economic and strategic sense to have a government institution in Ottawa, it should be in Ottawa. But if not, it should be in the most logical alternate location (and one would be hard-pressed to come up with many logical reasons why Shawinigan is a hotspot of federal government jobs).

Regarding Ottawa, I really wish more Canadians would take ownership of the Capital. While it lacks the grandeur of most major World capitals, it really is a moderately large, yet comfortable and very pleasant city whose residents are more modest than those of the bigger cities (perhaps an offshoot of being located between Canada's two big'uns?) - and they have one hell of a hockey team...

To me, Ottawa should be a showcase that encapsulates the best aspects of Canada. I have no problem with the national museums and offices being located there. All things being equal, perhaps locating everything in Ottawa might be a fair compromise vs. the regional bickering and allegations of vote buying that inevitably occur when these institutions are located elsewhere.

[Jamaican-Phoenix]

If it makes economic and strategic sense to have a government institution in Ottawa, it should be in Ottawa. But if not, it should be in the most logical alternate location (and one would be hard-pressed to come up with many logical reasons why Shawinigan is a hotspot of federal government jobs).

Regarding Ottawa, I really wish more Canadians would take ownership of the Capital. While it lacks the grandeur of most major World capitals, it really is a moderately large, yet comfortable and very pleasant city whose residents are more modest than those of the bigger cities (perhaps an offshoot of being located between Canada's two big'uns?) - and they have one hell of a hockey team...

To me, Ottawa should be a showcase that encapsulates the best aspects of Canada. I have no problem with the national museums and offices being located there. All things being equal, perhaps locating everything in Ottawa might be a fair compromise vs. the regional bickering and allegations of vote buying that inevitably occur when these institutions are located elsewhere.

Thank you! :tup: :notacrook: :banana:

And about regional bickering and allegations of vote buying, that's why we were chosen as the capital in the first place! To appease the Gods of Montreal and Toronto! :haha: