[WaterlooInvestor]

-

[kitchener-lrt]

Anyone know when Arrow will be ready for occupation?

[WaterlooInvestor]

-

[rapid_business]

So were these ever for sale to the general public? (vested interest... looking to buy a loft in the area)

[WaterlooInvestor]

-

[rapid_business]

MLS # 0737878 (floor plan: http://www.kaufmanlofts.com/floorplans/columbus.html) looks interesting if you could negotiate $10,000 off the asking price. I love the fact it's a penthouse with some balcony space overlooking King Street. The view will be improving over the next few years (re: Lang Tanning Redevelopment). We've called about it, however it's not available until March, and we'd prefer to go through the unit before putting on an offer.

MLS # 0794996 (floor plan: http://www.kaufmanlofts.com/floorplans/fp_parc.html) - just came on the market. I like the layout, the fact it's a two bedroom with an ensuite, and has a balcony (although the view isn't going to be great in this location). The drawback is it's kinda pushing the limit in terms of how much we're looking to spend. The nice thing is it's already built, so we'll probably take a look at it sometime over the holidays.

Of the two, I'm going to have to go with the first one. I even would say the layout is better. It's nice that the 2nd one has a second bedroom, and is 965 sq. ft., but it's a poor management of the space. I've been in condos in vancouver that show like that one with 250 less sq. ft. (and not to mention that you are paying per sq. ft.)

If between the two, I'd say go with the 1+den. A better use of the space I think. The den realistically could be altered with a new wall (8 ft.) or something else to divide it if you want. Otherwise it's a better view and price. Just some thoughts.

[WaterlooInvestor]

-

[kitchener-lrt]

I agree the first loft is preferable in many ways. However, the 2nd unit's space isn't that poorly managed, at least when comparing it to the unit we were looking to buy which had a considerable amount of wasted space: http://www.kaufmanlofts.com/floorplans/fp_niva.html . It was listed at $225K. We went through it on a Sunday, but by Wednesday when our realtor called to put in an offer of $215K it was already taken off the market. It was the view that completely made up (and then some) for the mismanaged space since it provided a "wow factor".

That is a lot of wasted space. I'm also sticking with that first proposal.

[rapid_business]

Just to clarify, the one I favor is the 1+Den facing King... not sure if that was clear based on your response. And yes, that hallway is brutal.

[Cambridgite]

Taken by Koops65 on January 20, 2008.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2403/2207864268_e3512569c0_o.jpg

[kitchener-lrt]

^^^It's been at that stage forever now! Everytime I pass Arrow, no one's there.

[koops65]

Exactly... I go by there almost every day, and the site has been devoid of activity for a long time...

[KitchenerBitcher]

Lol I've been watching the construction on this from far away out my kitchen window. I haven't seen anything going on lately though. I really hope it's still going ahead because it's great that developers are branching off of only developing directly on King Street. The Benton-Courtland area will have some new development for the first time in decades!

[jcollins]

I wonder what all the hold up is on this. Every time Im past there, theres no one on site.

Wonder if it could be an issue with the developer, or who the work was subcontracted out to?

[waterloowarrior]

I walked by today, there seemed to be someone on site, but nothing too big going on....

http://wwuploads.googlepages.com/arrow2.JPG

http://wwuploads.googlepages.com/arrow3.JPG

[KitchenerBitcher]

If anyone goes by this place check if there are people working on it. I even try to detourmy route sometimes check it out. That framework went up fairly steadily and then it stopped, I guess it was probably just because of the weather.

[Waterlooian4Life]

I work down the street and i always see workers there but they never seem to be doing anything. I really wish Auburn would up date their website and give some up dates on this and Barrel yards

[koops65]

When I went by this morning I saw a few workers on-site, up near the top floors, and there appeared to be interior walls/partitions being installed inside the old factory portion. I didnt have my camera with me though. :(

[jcollins]

Does anyone know, is the plan to finish the 4 story addition before starting on the new 16 story building?

[rapid_business]

No idea here...but god, why such an ugly apartment? I'm sick of all this half-ass approach to "density" here. What a gong show....

[KitchenerBitcher]

I agree with you Onishenko, but in this particular section of downtown, they REALLY need some nice new housing. I can tolerate a semi-ugly apartment building here, if it will jump start other projects for the Benton-Courtland area.

[KitchenerBitcher]

Any progress at Arrow lately?

[WaterlooInvestor]

-

[KitchenerBitcher]

Have they been working on the roof at Arrow lately. I sort of see it when I drive by, but I can't tell if there has actually been any change.

[koops65]

Yes, a few new things have appeared on the roof lately, and whenever I go by there are usually 1 or 2 pickup trucks on the site, so only a handfull of workers are actually doing anything, and that small number cannot build a large high-rise...

[kwoldtimer]

Yes, a few new things have appeared on the roof lately, and whenever I go by there are usually 1 or 2 pickup trucks on the site, so only a handfull of workers are actually doing anything, and that small number cannot build a large high-rise...

Freakishly slow progress and, as far as I know, no indicating that they are marketing the condos yet - this just doesn't seem right. :shrug:

[KitchenerBitcher]

The progress is slow, but I drove by today and saw at least seven people working up on the roof. It looked to be an elevator shaft??? But I really have no idea what it was. Hopefully now that it's really getting into the warm weather we'll see faster progress made on the lofts. I can't imagine why Auburn would want to drag them out, the real estate market is hot right now so if they get them on the market faster, they'll probably sell out faster. Btw is there going to be underground parking here? What is the situation on parking?

[Cambridgite]

^I have no idea on the parking situation of the details of this project at all. It doesn't even have a website yet or a number to call for registration.

[KitchenerBitcher]

The only theory I have on why Auburn is not releasing any details about sales, and maybe I'm wrong, is that since the building permit is only for the shell of the addition, and renovations to the corridors, maybe they are waiting for further approval from the city before releasing details about the units. Although I could be way off, I don't really know much about loft renovation projects. I know from my uncle that there is ssoo much involved in getting the structure physically sound, and some of that stuff you can't even notice from the street.

[KitchenerBitcher]

I e-mailed the head of Downtown and Community Development again (she's probably getting really sick of me), and asked about the progress of Arrow.

Me: The Arrow lofts is another great development, and it is slowly coming along. I was wondering if Auburn development has had any problems with the Arrow loft development, or is it just typical slow construction?

Head of Downtown Development: Thanks for your interest! It is your enthusiastic support that makes a difference as it takes time for all the pieces to come together.
I don't know the details on Arrow lofts delay except that they did have some clean up time required so that could be part of the reason. I understand things should be moving more quickly this year.
Regards,
Silvia

- At least this tells us that some of the delay could have been site cleanup. Makes me worry a little bit less about Auburn as a developer.

[KitchenerBitcher]

All I've been seeing here lately is work being done on the roof. It looks like a heating and cooling system to me. I'm surprised they don't work on getting the building closed in.

[KitchenerBitcher]

Sigh, hey guys has anything been happening at Arrow lately?

[Brenden]

I find it interesting that they didnt register the arrowlofts.com domain name...

[metropolis]

They have not registered the barrelyards.com or .ca or whatever domain either. This company must either be in massive financial straights, stretching itself thin by taking on too many/too large projects,or they are simply not very good at marketing themselves. I hold out little hope at this stage for this project or the barrel yards project in Waterloo.

[smably]

They have registered barrelyards.com, though there obviously isn't a web site up yet. They're probably just not very good at marketing.

[metropolis]

/\/\
That’s what I was afraid of. If the company was failing, property they own may become available and we could just move along to new proposals by companies that are more likely to deliver.

Even if things pick up, progress on either Arrow or BarrelYards will likely remain anemic as they are unlikely to offer both for rental/sale the same time to compete against each other.

This company also owns the lot surrounded by Caroline, William, Park, and Alexandra streets in Uptown Waterloo. There was a proposal made years ago but required revision. Since then, like with their other projects: nothing.

[KitchenerBitcher]

Has anyone noticed a new crane up at Arrow in the last couple days? A couple times when I looked out my window I saw what I think was a smallish crane right near the building.

[Brenden]

Has anyone noticed a new crane up at Arrow in the last couple days? A couple times when I looked out my window I saw what I think was a smallish crane right near the building.

no i took a look and didn't see any...
I always see the same red car there... there is never more then 3 cars there most ofter 1.

[sixer]

Development definitely needs to start happening, it's been way too long.

[kwoldtimer]

Drove by today and saw no particular sign of activity. I have never seen a project progress so slowly - meanwhile in its current unsightly state, it cast a pall over that part of the downtown. Unfortunate.

[koops65]

Pic taken today by me.
Still nothing new to report...:(
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3150/2664413408_c6c7f09dff_b.jpg

[Brenden]

a friend of mine dose something called urban exploring and he took these pictures of the arrow building a while back:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/axle81401/sets/72157605180416175/

[Cambridgite]

^Haha!

Can we assume this project will be finished by 2020? :P

[Brenden]

ok this is old photos but this is still cool:
http://www.abandonedbutnotforgotten.com/arrow_shirt_factory.htm
http://www.abandonedbutnotforgotten.com/Arrow%20Shirt%20Factory/04192007%20020.jpg
http://www.abandonedbutnotforgotten.com/Arrow%20Shirt%20Factory/04192007%20029.jpg
http://www.abandonedbutnotforgotten.com/Arrow%20Shirt%20Factory/04192007%20039.jpg
http://www.abandonedbutnotforgotten.com/Arrow%20Shirt%20Factory/04192007%20049.jpg
http://www.abandonedbutnotforgotten.com/Arrow%20Shirt%20Factory/04192007%20050.jpg
http://www.abandonedbutnotforgotten.com/Arrow%20Shirt%20Factory/04192007%20065.jpg
http://www.abandonedbutnotforgotten.com/Arrow%20Shirt%20Factory/04192007%20066.jpg
http://www.abandonedbutnotforgotten.com/Arrow%20Shirt%20Factory/04192007%20067.jpg
http://www.abandonedbutnotforgotten.com/Arrow%20Shirt%20Factory/04192007%20068.jpg
http://www.abandonedbutnotforgotten.com/Arrow%20Shirt%20Factory/04192007%20078.jpg
http://www.abandonedbutnotforgotten.com/Arrow%20Shirt%20Factory/04192007%20079.jpg
http://www.abandonedbutnotforgotten.com/Arrow%20Shirt%20Factory/04192007%20085.jpg


Man I wish I had the money... I would take over this project and do it right!
Is it just me or dose anyone else think this would make a better office complex?

[Brenden]

Has anyone heard anything about this project?

[notmyfriends]

I haven't, but the city or someone needs to do something about that joke. It's an eyesore as is. Maybe that company should start finishing ongoing projects before worrying about their next 4 or 5.

[kauffer]

You have to wonder why a company would start work before marketing the project. Since we know no bank would ever forward money before sales were attempted, it means that Auburn either finances projects (or at least this one) from their own resources or else they try to recruit private investors to foot the bill--which is wonderful for a developer if you can make it happen. Private investors are far, far easier to deal with and far less knowledgeable about project development than banks.

Some of the giant development firms do actually self-finance under certain circumstances, but neither the size of the company (Auburn) nor the development match the circumstances here. Which means there likely are/were outside investors involved.

I would guess the sporadic work we see on Arrow has been done so that new potential investors might think that the project is still viable and give Auburn a few million dollars. Or so that past investors would have some answers to their questions about where their money was going. Of course, this is just speculation.

[markowithak]

Hey, I'm new to posting (but long time lurking) in these forums.

I live across the street (literally) from the Arrow building and there has been a lot of progress lately.

- Interior wall framing is up on all floors (steel framing), however some of it interferes with the current window style (for the solariums) so I believe they will be changing the look of the old windows to accommodate this (or having 4 inches of steel visible through the window?)
- Parking garage foundation is in place, level with the sidewalk but still rebar sticking out so I'd assume one more level (looks like 3-4 levels underground)
- The old parking lot (where the new tower is going) has been half dug up
- Most of the windows on the west side have been replaced with plastic sheeting
- I've seen small work crews in and around the building lately

I love the location (I'm currently renting) and would love to purchase one of these, but there is still the complete lack of marketing and contact information. Anyone know if there are any updates on that front?

[bauer123]

It's my understanding that they will be rental units not condos. Although that may have changed. It's about time they worked on it tho.

[Duke-Of-Waterloo]

- Parking garage foundation is in place, level with the sidewalk but still rebar sticking out so I'd assume one more level (looks like 3-4 levels underground)


Doubt that. In most of Waterloo Region, the watertable is too high to permit something that deep. That's why you rarely see underground parking garages go that low around here. I don't know a whole lot about this project, so I could be wrong. That's just what I've heard from a few architects for other projects. It doesn't really make sense though, thinking that Toronto can be right on Lake Ontario and pratcially have its own underground city.

Welcome to the forum by the way! :cheers:

[rapid_business]

/\ High water table, matched with financial feasibility, matched with market demand and expectation.

The first can be championed, but the other two need to work alongside it to make it happen.

[notmyfriends]

marko - any chance you can take some pictures to match your descriptions?

[waterloowarrior]

Arrow project back on track
http://news.therecord.com/News/Local/article/529089
TERRY PENDER
RECORD STAFF
KITCHENER

Broken windows. Graffiti-tagged walls. A bare, steel frame on top of an old industrial building.

For years there has been little progress on the long-delayed project to convert the former Arrow Shirt factory at112 Benton St. into rental housing.

The first phase of the project was originally scheduled to finish in the summer of 2003.

But six years later, in the midst of a deepening recession, the head of London-based Auburn Developments insists the project is going ahead.

A model suite should be open in September.

Auburn president Jamie Crich said yesterday the company only needs to complete a site-plan agreement with the City of Kitchener.

"So we are 99 per cent of the way through that process and we should be getting the approval within weeks," Crich said in an interview.

The plan calls for 135 luxury apartments with hardwood floors, granite countertops and 12-foot ceilings.

Initially, the units will be rented out. When the economy picks up, the apartments may be sold as condominiums.

In April 2001, the shirt factory closed after 80 years of production. Some of the soil on the property was contaminated with industrial solvents.

That cleanup -- and final approvals from the Ministry of the Environment -- took much longer than expected.

A retaining wall for the parking garage and steel framing for three additional floors were completed a long time ago.

New windows will first be installed, then walls constructed inside the building for the apartments. The entire building should be closed in this summer.

The building should be ready for its first tenants next year.

"Hopefully, we will have a model open for Sept. 1, and that's when we will be setting the rents," Crich said.

The economic downturn that has pushed the unemployment rate in this region to 9.6 per cent has not scared Auburn Developments away from the project.

The only concession is the decision to rent out the units first.

"We build through the good times and the bad with luxury rentals," Crich said. "We just finished a 23-storey (project) in London and we have six or seven left out of the 200."

Chris Pidgeon, an urban planner working for Auburn, said once the final approvals are in hand it won't take long to finish the Arrow building.

"They could actually complete that building in about eight to 10 months time," Pidgeon said. "I think it will close in very quickly."

When building permits are issued, development charges must be paid to the city -- $3,975 per unit.

So far the city has issued several building permits for the project, including one in May 2006 for $500,000 worth of work to erect the framing on the roof for the additional three floors.

In 2007, another permit for work valued at $100,000 was issued for the construction of a retaining wall. Last year, a permit for work valued at $20 million was issued for the construction of residential units inside the old factory.

Craig Waller, the city's manager of building, said a building permit for the parking garage, valued at $4 million, will also be issued.

As part of the city's efforts to encourage the redevelopment of contaminated industrial sites, Auburn Developments will get an annual property tax grant of $110,000 for 10 years to help pay for the environmental cleanup that was required.

The cleanup cost at least $2.2 million.

tpender@therecord.com

[jcollins]

I think they're smart to make these rentals. Especially in this economy people will be looking to rent. Will they want to rent something luxury with hardwood and granite? Who knows. It'll depend on the price. I wonder what kind of sizes the units will be?

Now the question is, once this part is done, when will the next phase be started? Finished? 2013? Later?

[koops65]

Nice to hear something is finally happening on this one. :cool:

[metropolis]

I will believe it when I see it... and maybe not even then.

[DHLawrence]

As long as they don't do an Eatons Lofts on us and rush it to get people in before it's done.

[Duke-Of-Waterloo]

I will believe it when I see it... and maybe not even then.

So true. Like can you honestly see people lining up to purchase "luxury apartments with hardwood floors and granite countertops" in Downtown Kitchener of all places? Especially with the economy the way it is? Sorry......didn't think so.

[gghtransit]

So true. Like can you honestly see people lining up to purchase "luxury apartments with hardwood floors and granite countertops" in Downtown Kitchener of all places? Especially with the economy the way it is? Sorry......didn't think so.

*cough* Centre Block *cough* *cough*

Anyways, "assuming" all goes according to plan it'll be nice to see work being done on site again. Right now it's the blight of Downtown, you can see it for miles around all run-down and everything.

[bauer123]

They might rent out if they are priced around the drewlo buildings pricing. But with another luxury apartment up in the area on Queen soon, it may prove to be a tough sell.

I'm not huge on the area of this also, Church st and all that is right around it.

[jcollins]

They might rent out if they are priced around the drewlo buildings pricing. But with another luxury apartment up in the area on Queen soon, it may prove to be a tough sell.

I'm not huge on the area of this also, Church st and all that is right around it.

That should be the price line that they should aim for. I dont think they can really price them any higher and still have them rent out. But around there, maybe ~850ish or 900?

Thats what I think they can get away with, maybe a bit more. Did the Regency (Queen and Weber) rent out right away?

[waterloowarrior]

http://www.flickr.com/photos/kevo89/3784668401/ kevo89 flickr

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2591/3784668401_68dea872ff_b.jpg

[jcollins]

That Sept 1 date for the model suite isn't looking too good. Wierd. :rolleyes:

[DHLawrence]

Did they say which year? :P

[jcollins]

Did they say which year? :P

Ahhh those tricky bastards got me again! Must have meant 2013.

[Leaffan]

Any news on this recently? Is that additional building also happening?

[Ktown4ever]

http://www.flickr.com/photos/kevo89/3784668401/ kevo89 flickr

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2591/3784668401_68dea872ff_b.jpg

AWESOME PHOTO.

[gghtransit]

:previous: Yes, great photography, but really depressing becasue it's soooo true to the actual situation...would make a good "Before" photo, assuming work ever gets going again.

[jcollins]

As for updates, the picture is how it currently stands.

[Brenden]

I have moved away currently in Orillia at Lakehead University... but I still lerk on this sight to see how my home town is doing... when I saw Arrow Lofts at the top of the new post list I was so excited... thinking that work was final moving ahead... I guess not! ARG

[Ktown4ever]

:previous: Yes, great photography, but really depressing becasue it's soooo true to the actual situation...would make a good "Before" photo, assuming work ever gets going again.

what about the three new floors on top---isn't that new? Or is that old news?

[Brenden]

what about the three new floors on top---isn't that new? Or is that old news?
Thats newish... they have been there for a few years now.

[jcollins]

Well we have some action!!
There were a number of workers on the site today.
They seem to be excavating more for the parking garage.

http://i996.photobucket.com/albums/af81/jcollins1311/Kitchener-Waterloo%20Shots/DSCF2156.jpg?t=1257004238

http://i996.photobucket.com/albums/af81/jcollins1311/Kitchener-Waterloo%20Shots/DSCF2157.jpg?t=1257004286

http://i996.photobucket.com/albums/af81/jcollins1311/Kitchener-Waterloo%20Shots/DSCF2158.jpg?t=1257004307

Pictures taken by me, today.

[Leaffan]

Excellent news, great pictures Jcollins thank you for all the updates.

[Cambridgite]

:upload_71700:

Awesome news!

Maybe, just maybe, they'll even put a website up!!

[jcollins]

Id love to see a website just for Arrow, or have Auburn add to their current website.

More info would be fantastic. Even little things like, is the parking garage that's partially installed, is that just for the existing building or will that service both buildings. Im having a hard time picturing things based on the images on their website.

Also, does anyone else think the site plan is lacking in detail?

[Brenden]

Id love to see a website just for Arrow, or have Auburn add to their current website.


ha ha so would I... I registered www.ArrowLofts.com a few years back, maybe they will buy it one day from me.

[jcollins]

The thing that doesnt make me overly optimistic is that yes, Kieswetter is in there doing the excavating, but but building remains untouched. Can they not have those two aspects going at the same time?

[jcollins]

It looks like the excavation is complete. For the first part at least. Now they can finish the parking garage.

Theres a few skids of red bricks on the site. Im not sure if thats new though. Im really hoping to see more action on the site soon. Like on the actual building.

[jcollins]

Looks like work on the building might be getting going.

If you compare these pictures from yesterday to the ones I took last week, you can see on the main floor, they've taken out all of the boarding to open up the openings. The 2nd floor you can see the plastic is all down, and there are a couple skids of bricks. Hopefully we can see some progress on the openings getting closed up and new windows in.

http://i996.photobucket.com/albums/af81/jcollins1311/Kitchener-Waterloo%20Shots/DSCF2193.jpg?t=1257708071

http://i996.photobucket.com/albums/af81/jcollins1311/Kitchener-Waterloo%20Shots/DSCF2194.jpg?t=1257708112

[jcollins]

So, I was wrong. They're not putting new bricks in, they're taking them out. My only guess as to why is so that the brick colours match on the whole building as the ones on the left are a different shade than those on the right

http://i996.photobucket.com/albums/af81/jcollins1311/Kitchener-Waterloo%20Shots/DSCF2198.jpg?t=1258225109

Excavation complete

http://i996.photobucket.com/albums/af81/jcollins1311/Kitchener-Waterloo%20Shots/DSCF2200.jpg?t=1258225143

Skids of bricks. Do these look like new bricks or bricks that have been removed from the building?

http://i996.photobucket.com/albums/af81/jcollins1311/Kitchener-Waterloo%20Shots/DSCF2201.jpg?t=1258225176

[bentonite]

There's been activity in the area adjacent to the building in the past few days. It looks like they're finally digging with a backhoe. Also, they dug up a portion of Benton St adjacent to the property and repaved it.

[koops65]

Has construction begun? The 16 floor tower has a large mat of rebar where the excavation took place. I wish I had my camera with me. Hopefully someone can snap some photos soon.

[Bauer_buyer]

Skids of bricks. Do these look like new bricks or bricks that have been removed from the building?

...the bricks, I sense, are being removed because they will probably be replaced with floor to ceiling windows...
...from an aesthetic point of view,it will help bring the building up to date, not to mention the lower cost factor with glass...
...a great use for those bricks might be as veneer walls in the units themselves
...just a thought...

...actually if they remove all the red brick(it's so 50's) and replace it with floor to ceilng windows and if they do it right that old hulk of a building will be stunning...but the facade has to be totally glass...
...the super structure is very solid and the floors at least 18 inches thick...excellent soundproofing

[notmyfriends]

Ooooo... looks like it's coming along nicely!!!1!

I walked by today, there seemed to be someone on site, but nothing too big going on....

http://wwuploads.googlepages.com/arrow2.JPG

http://wwuploads.googlepages.com/arrow3.JPG

[koops65]

Underground parking has reached the surface. First floor is being constructed now.

[jcollins]

That's not the 16 floor apartment building, just the parking structure for the factory conversion.

[koops65]

ok, but at least there is progress here :)