[John F]

This broke last Friday here in the Tampa/St. Petersburg area. With the Rays unveiling their new uniforms (a ripoff of other current team unis), the news also slipped that the team has started working on a plan to move the Rays out of Tropicana Field by 2012 -- to a new waterfront ballpark on the site where (minor league) Al Lang Field currently resides.

...Which isn't a very large footprint for a major league ballpark.


Rays on the bay? (http://www.sptimes.com/2007/11/10/Southpinellas/Rays_on_the_bay.shtml)

http://www.sptimes.com/2007/11/09/images/tb_Stadium_570.jpg

The $450-million project hinges on the sale of Tropicana Field and public financing.

By AARON SHAROCKMAN and MARC TOPKIN, Times Staff Writers
Published November 10, 2007

ST. PETERSBURG -- The Tampa Bay Rays have developed a bold plan to build a $450-million downtown stadium that would give fans waterfront views and protection from rain.

The stadium, to be built on the site of Al Lang Field, would seat about 35,000 and could open as early as 2012. Hitters there would have a chance to send the ball into the bay.

http://www.sptimes.com/2007/11/09/images/na_Stadium_Map_199.jpg

Financing is still being worked out, but a primary source would be proceeds of the sale of the Tropicana Field site to a developer who would build a large retail/residential complex there. The Rays also would make a contribution, perhaps as much as $150-million, covering one-third of the cost.

The team also would seek legislative approval for $60-million of state money in future sales tax revenue from food, beer and merchandise sales in the new park.

The plan faces several hurdles. The city charter requires voter approval of any deal involving a long-term lease of city-owned waterfront property such as Al Lang. The plan also may involve the city selling the Al Lang site to Pinellas County to avoid property taxes; a similar deal was constructed to create a tax shelter for Tropicana Field.

That, too, would have to pass voters' muster at a time when government budgets are tight and taxpayers are calling for tax relief.

State and city officials declined to discuss the plan.

Asked about the stadium plan, Rays principal owner Stuart Sternberg said: "If it can get done, I'm open to it." He declined to comment further.

After the St. Petersburg Times broke the story Friday on its Web site, tampabay.com, the Rays called a late-night news conference at which president Matt Silverman confirmed that the team was going forward with the plan.

"We are excited about the possibilities of these projects, and the economic benefits that they would bring to our community," Silverman said. "We would certainly involve the public in any process related to this."

The new stadium would be open to the elements but could be covered with sail-like material on a cabling system when necessary. Fans or other devices would provide cooling, and some seating areas would have air-conditioning.

The stadium would be built on the site of the longtime spring training facility the team is leaving next year. But the new field would be shifted so that balls hit over the rightfield fence would splash into the water, as is the case at the San Francisco Giants' AT&T Park.

Site has pros, cons

The design is expected to be traditional, with a retro look common among new baseball stadiums. The smaller capacity, about 10,000 less than Tropicana Field's when the team began play there, also reflects a recent trend in ballpark design.

The Rays have shown an artist's rendering of the stadium to state and city officials, and likely will have a model when they make a public announcement of their plans, probably in the next month.

The Al Lang site would be a tight fit for a major-league stadium, with only a little more than 10 acres available. That's about the same as Fenway Park in Boston and slightly less than AT&T Park in San Francisco.

It would leave little or no room for on-site parking. Fans would have to use downtown garages and makeshift lots in the area, and the team would be deprived of a revenue source. Bayshore Drive would be closed and be integrated into the site, perhaps as the outfield warning track.

The Rays consider the Al Lang site their top choice for a new stadium for several reasons: Not only could it evolve into a picturesque signature home, but it also would allow the team to get a new stadium without having to fight to get out of its lease at Tropicana Field, which runs through 2027.

The lease bars the Rays from moving anywhere without the city's permission, making an in-city move much more feasible than elsewhere in the Tampa Bay area, such as the state Fairgrounds location in eastern Hillsborough County.

The city still owes more than $100-million on nearly 18-year-old Tropicana Field, a debt not scheduled to be paid off until 2025. The county also is contributing money through a hotel tax.

Though Sternberg's group has spent millions upgrading Tropicana Field since taking over in October 2005, he has also maintained that the team eventually will need a new stadium. As recently as May, he indicated he didn't expect it to happen anytime soon. In July, Major League Baseball president Bob DuPuy said a new stadium was not a top league priority.

But, working on their own and in relative secrecy, the Rays have clearly accelerated that timetable.

"First and foremost, as Stuart Sternberg has said repeatedly, we will not demand a new stadium," Silverman said. "Secondly, Stuart has said on numerous occasions that Tropicana Field will not be a viable facility by the end of our lease term."

A new stadium could become more of a destination and boost the team's attendance, which has consistently ranked among the league's worst.

A key to the deal would be the sale of the Tropicana Field and parking lot land. There are grand plans for the mixed-use redevelopment, with talk of an upscale, sophisticated retail and entertainment area that would create numerous jobs combined with affordable workforce housing. The hope is to get a major developer involved.

Officials unaware

St. Petersburg Mayor Rick Baker has said the city is unlikely to provide additional funding for a new stadium. His position reflects a decline in sentiment nationally for the public to subsidize sports teams.

"I know the Rays have looked at a lot of options," Baker said. "And I'm sure they're continuing to look at their options."

Al Lang -- formally known as Progress Energy Park -- will be without a tenant starting in 2009 when the Rays move their spring training facilities to Charlotte County. The city is unlikely to seek a replacement team for spring training.

The process to build a stadium at the Al Lang site was made easier in August, when the City Council agreed to table a proposal that would have added development protections there.

St. Petersburg economic development officials said they wanted more flexibility for the site, but publicly, they never explained why.

Rick Mussett, the city's senior economic development official, would not address questions about a possible new stadium on that site this week: "I can't comment about that," he said.

The circle of people who are involved in the Rays talks so far is small.

Gov. Charlie Crist met privately with team officials on Aug. 17 in St. Petersburg, but he has not commented publicly about the nature of that discussion. He was traveling in Chile on Friday and did not return requests seeking comment.

Many local elected leaders -- from county commissioners to City Council members to state legislators -- said they've heard nothing more than rumors regarding a new stadium. If talks are under way, it's not with them.

"I have heard it come up from time to time, in the last year," said Pinellas County Commissioner Ken Welch, who said he heard rumors again on Thursday. "But there's no formal talks, as far as I know."

"I'd be surprised if it is that far along," said Don Shea, the director of the St. Petersburg Downtown Partnership.

"No one has approached me in any way officially about that," said Sen. Mike Fasano, R-New Port Richey.

Fasano, who oversees economic development spending in the Senate, is someone the Rays surely would seek out.

Any state money for a new stadium would go through him. He sees it as an uphill battle.

"I don't see how anything like that would happen in such a tight budget year," Fasano said.

The Florida Marlins have tried and failed to win the extra tax break, despite the support of House Speaker Marco Rubio. The proposal calls for the first $2-million in sales taxes generated by the stadium each year for 30 years to go toward construction and maintenance.

Rays executives are leaning toward hiring one of the state's most powerful lobbyists, Brian Ballard, to increase the team's presence in Tallahassee.

Could the support of Gov. Crist, who calls St. Petersburg home, put the Rays over the top?

"When you have the governor living a few blocks from the stadium that's helpful, but it's a tough road," said Sen. Charlie Justice, D-St. Petersburg, who admits he has heard rumors about the Al Lang site.

Scant support

Sen. Dennis Jones, R-Treasure Island, said he opposes using taxpayer dollars to help build a new stadium in St. Petersburg.

"Obviously, I can't imagine anybody in this period of time, why anyone would have any serious interest in using taxpayers' money to build a stadium when we're trying to fix a property tax problem and an insurance problem," Jones said. "Right now, the taxpayers are more concerned about making a mortgage and putting groceries on the table than putting money into a sports complex."

Major League Baseball officials are aware of the Rays' interest in a new stadium but are not party to the proposed plan. MLB officials have helped teams lobby for funding, including for several years in South Florida without success, but do not contribute financially.

The Rays, clearly, had hoped to keep news of the stadium quiet until their official announcement next month. They hastily arranged for a 9 p.m. news conference Friday at Tropicana Field at which Silverman spoke for 27 seconds and took no questions.

Staff writers Steve Bousquet and Jennifer Liberto contributed to this report.

Key points of the proposal

* 35,000-seat, open air stadium
* Retractable covering stops rain
* Sale of the Trop helps funding
* No new city tax money, but possible sales tax revenues
* Needs city voter approval

[John F]

Rays to seek vote on park (http://www.sptimes.com/2007/11/13/Southpinellas/Rays_to_seek_vote_on_.shtml)

The team plans to ask the City Council to let voters decide on a proposed stadium.

By AARON SHAROCKMAN and CRISTINA SILVA, Times Staff Writers
Published November 13, 2007

ST. PETERSBURG - The Tampa Bay Rays want city voters to decide next year on their plans for a downtown waterfront baseball stadium, the City Council chairman said Monday.

The team intends to ask the council to place a referendum on the November 2008 ballot, council chairman Jamie Bennett said. The plan calls for building a $450-million stadium at the site of city-owned Al Lang Field, and a major mixed-use development at the site of the Rays' current home, Tropicana Field.

The referendum was one of several new details to emerge Monday, three days after the St. Petersburg Times' Web site, tampabay.com, broke the story about the Rays' plans.

Bennett said he spent 90 minutes speaking with team officials about their intentions. He left the meeting impressed.

"They've done their homework," Bennett said. "And from first blush, it seems like it could work."

Though the Rays have declined to provide details of their plans, team officials showed Bennett a series of conceptual drawings of the new stadium. Among the new details:

-The team proposes to provide 5,000 parking spaces at Tropicana Field for games at the new stadium 10 blocks away. A shuttle could take fans back and forth. The Rays said an analysis shows there are 12,000 parking spaces within a half-mile of the downtown site.

-The new stadium would be open-air, but a stylized "sail" roof could protect the seats and the field from sun and rain.

-The new stadium would have views of the bay, the Pier and the downtown skyline. The parking lot now at the Al Lang site would be turned into a park.

-Tropicana Field would be turned into a mixed-use residential and retail complex. Affordable housing would be a major component.

As far along as the Rays are, there are still many details to work out, Bennett said. Most notably, there's the question of how the team would cover the potential $450-million cost of construction.

Bennett said the Rays did not ask for any city contribution during their meeting. The Rays are expected to ask the state to contribute $60-million from a sales-tax rebate program. Under that scenario, which requires legislative approval, sales taxes on merchandise, food and beer sold in the new facility over 30 years would be diverted to help pay off construction costs.

The city hasn't seen an official presentation, and may not see one for weeks.

City voters would have the final say on a new stadium, because the city charter requires a public vote for the kind of long-term lease on waterfront land the Rays would need. And the City Council would have to agree to put the measure on the fall 2008 ballot.

"The city's not agreed to anything at this point," Mayor Rick Baker said. "If a presentation is made to us, we'll evaluate it and do what's best for the city."

More stadium details

The Rays have drawings of the new stadium from several angles, Bennett said. The team declined to provide the Times with copies on Monday.

One view is from the outside of the stadium, another is from inside, Bennett said. Another view is from the water.

"If you look at it from the side, you can see through it," said Bennett. "It's not an obtrusive, big object."

Bennett said the sail-like covering would shield parts of the field and would be anchored off a pole.

"It kind of has a nautical look from the side," Bennett said. "It kind of looks like a big ol' sail."

The roof would prevent rainouts, except in cases of extreme weather.

Council member Herb Polson said he also met with team executives Monday.

"It's an interesting-looking facility," said Polson, who said he had several questions Monday about how the covering would operate.

Team officials told city officials there would be enough parking to accommodate fans.

And the Rays want to keep 5,000 spaces at Tropicana Field - in parking garages - to make up the difference.

That's one of just several changes contemplated for the Rays' current home.

Overhaul of Trop site

The team wants to turn the 70-acre-plus Tropicana site into a mixed-use residential and retail community, Bennett said.

The site would have large amounts of affordable housing and a park. It would be ringed by retail space.

The Rays would share in the proceeds from the sale of the land to a private developer along with the city, and potentially the county. All three entities have an interest in the site, which is bordered by interstates 275 and 175.

Commercial real estate experts on Monday said it could be a prime property, but they were unsure how much money the land would be worth on the open market.

"It would certainly lend itself to retail development, office development and a residential component," said Alan Feldshue, a senior associate with Colliers Arnold. "It's a fabulous site. If it was priced reasonably, you could make the economics work."

The plan to sell voters on a new stadium likely hinges as much on the redevelopment of Tropicana Field as the prospects of the new waterfront ballpark, Polson said. The city still owes about $100-million on Tropicana Field.

Other council members are expected to be asked to similar meetings in the coming days.

"This can't be solely centered on the new facility," Polson said. "We'll need to look at the entire picture."

[John F]

And with a new stadium talk finally gearing up for the Rays (who don't play well enough to deserve a new park), the rivalry between Tampa and St. Petersburg is renewed. Tropicana Field (the Dome the Rays currently play in) was only constructed because of the bitter rivalry between Tampa and St. Pete -- St. Pete was so insecure about Tampa landing a baseball team instead of them, they approved construction of the Dome in 1986 with no promises a MLB team would ever play within it.

Ballpark plan fuels two cities' rivalry (http://www.sptimes.com/2007/11/14/Southpinellas/Ballpark_plan_fuels_t.shtml
)

St. Petersburg! No, Tampa! Rays' plans renew the debate.

By NICOLE HUTCHESON, Times Staff Writer
Published November 14, 2007

If you think the University of Florida-Florida State rivalry is bad, consider the age-old smashup between sister cities St. Petersburg and Tampa.

For generations, the qualities of the cities have been debated.

Tampa's got the size.

St. Petersburg's got the charm.

Tampa's got the Bucs and Lightning, St. Petersburg the Rays.

But as the Tampa Bay Rays talk of moving their home from Tropicana Field to Al Lang Field, the simmering clash between the cities is heating up once again.

Plenty of Tampa folks say the team should consider moving east of the Howard Frankland Bridge and take up residence with the bay area's other two major league sports teams. St. Petersburg fans say no way and call it another attempt by Tampa to steal its thunder.

Call-in talk shows, newspaper columnists, elected officials and blogs are all buzzing with this very discussion.

"Don't get me started on Tampa," said Mark Ferguson, who owns Ferg's Sports Bar and Grill, an institution on Central Avenue. "I believe the Lightning and Bucs are in Tampa, we have the Rays in St. Petersburg. ... Once they come over and see a game, they'll be fine. It's only water."

But Winter Haven resident Jamie Chastain said when it comes to the Rays moving to Tampa, dollars make sense.

"There's literally hundreds of thousands of kids and adults who have never been to the Trop or St. Petersburg because it's another 30 miles across that bridge, and down the interstate and you've got to go through malfunction junction," said Chastain, 59, a professor at Polk Community College. "They should do a poll, they'll find people in Pasco, Polk and Hardee who would all like to be closer so they could go to the games."

To be clear, even if the Rays wanted to move to Tampa, it would take a lot of legal wrangling and even more money to do so.

The Rays have a contract with the city of St. Petersburg that doesn't expire until 2027. And the city still owes about $100-million on Tropicana Field, not including interest. To get out of the contract, the team would have to at least pay off the city's debt and could face more legal penalties.

St. Petersburg City Council member Bill Foster compared the agreement to a marriage.

"The primary reason they the Rays don't move anywhere else, is what I like to call the 'prenuptial agreement,'" Foster said. "We're in holy matrimony with the Rays, for better or worse, richer or poorer, in sickness and health. That's our relationship; that's our partnership."

In the late 1980s, St. Petersburg took an if-you-build-it-they-will-come approach. City officials footed the bill for Tropicana Field even before a major league team signed on. In 1995, the Tampa Bay area was awarded the franchise. Since St. Petersburg had already built the stadium, it was the logical place to play.

"St. Petersburg was Cinderella, and finally the slipper fits," Foster said. "We're no longer in their shadow, and now Tampa is just trying to keep up."

So far, Tampa officials are keeping out of the whole deal.

"They're in St. Petersburg; they always have been there. Tampa has never been a part of the equation," said Tampa Mayor Pam Iorio. "I think that's St. Petersburg's business."

Though some Tampa residents may be complaining about the trek to Tropicana Field, Rays officials say it hasn't affected ticket sales that much.

The Rays don't release specific numbers on ticket sales, but did say the team's season ticket base skews to Pinellas more than Hillsborough. However, individual tickets are quite evenly split, said Rick Vaughn, a spokesman for the team.

Recently, the team opened a new office and retail space in downtown Tampa to help spur season ticket sales.

Christine M. Burdick, president of the Tampa Downtown Partnership, said the cities should look at each other as complements, not competition.

"There are so many things we have now that almost demand a larger regional approach," Burdick said. "That doesn't mean that there won't always be a rivalry, but it also doesn't mean one city is better than the other."

Nicole Hutcheson can be reached at nhutcheson@sptimes.com or (727)893-8828.

[John F]

and then there is the conceptual (unofficial, only done by the St. Pete Times newspaper) rendering of the field from the rumored designs of the park:

Something like this? (http://www.sptimes.com/2007/11/18/Southpinellas/Something_like_this.shtml)

http://www.sptimes.com/2007/11/17/images/TB_Raysdrawing_450.jpg

By AARON SHAROCKMAN, Times Staff Writer
Published November 18, 2007

On his second day running the Tampa Bay Rays, principal owner Stuart Sternberg tipped his hand about plans for an open-air baseball stadium.

We just didn't know it then.

"Ideally you want to be outdoors when it's beautiful and you want to be indoors when it's not," Sternberg said Oct. 7, 2005. "We will explore certain possible new technologies that develop and might give us the opportunity to keep out the weather but sort of keep in the environment."

Now we know what Sternberg had in mind.

The Rays won't reveal their drawing for the new ballpark they are proposing on the downtown waterfront. But based on discussions with people who have seen renderings of the team's version, the St. Petersburg Times created its own.

If the Rays' dream ballpark is ever built, it would be one of a kind. Picture an outdoor stadium where Al Lang Field now stands.

Out past left field looms the city skyline. Over center, the Pier. To right, Tampa Bay.

A grass berm rings the outfield. A new grassy park borders the north end of the stadium.

A steel roof covers the top of the horseshoe-shaped grandstands.

Above that, hundreds of yards of fabric sails are stored. A series of cables runs from the roof to a mast in center field, 300-feet-tall. Other cables arch across the stadium to help create a form.

Then, the storm comes.

With a push of the button, the fabric starts to unfurl. It rises toward the hulking center field poll.

When it's in place, the fabric covers the stands and most of the field. It provides shade for the field and the seats, and protects fans and players from the rain.

The concept for the Rays new stadium is unique. No major league baseball stadium has a fabric roof that covers the field, but keeps baseball outdoors.

Most roofs that retract are built on a rail-like system. In Houston, where the Astros play, the entire roof simply slides off on a track.

In Milwaukee, the roof of the stadium opens and closes like a Japanese fan.

But designs like those take room. They probably wouldn't fit on the Rays' preferred site, Al Lang Field, the team's spring training home. And they tend to be expensive.

An industry expert said the Rays' sail could cut temperatures in the stadium by as much as 20 degrees.

And home runs could still reach Tampa Bay.

How hot would it be?

As innovative as it may sound, there are plenty of questions regarding the Rays' design. Lots of them have to do with structural engineering.

But a more pressing issue remains.

Outdoor baseball in St. Petersburg? In July?

Though Tropicana Field consistently is listed near the top of baseball's worst stadiums list, it was built with a dome on top for a reason.

The average high in St. Petersburg during July and August is 90 degrees. On average, there are nearly 15 inches of rain in those two months.

"I'm a Rays fan who kind of likes that 72 degree temperature," City Council member Jamie Bennett said recently.

According to experts, the fabric the Rays choose could help mitigate concerns about heat.

Rick Hughes, project manager at Sky Shades, an Orlando-area company that sells fabric coverings, said a fabric roof could keep parts of the stadium 20 degrees cooler during the hottest parts of the day.

The fabric, a lightweight synthetic polymer, would reflect 70 percent of the visible light and 99 percent of the more dangerous UV rays, Hughes said.

But the fabric allows enough light to pass through to play a baseball game during the day.

"It's very doable," Hughes said. "In fact, it's being done."

Soccer stadiums in Australia, Europe and Asia are being constructed using similar technology, Hughes and others said.

None look like the Rays proposal, but most work in the same general way.

In Japan, the 45,000-seat Toyota Stadium has a fabric roof that slides into place almost like a roll-up door. In Spain, a bullfighting ring has a circular roof that lifts and slides away.

The Rays said Friday they likely will unveil more details about the new 35,000-seat stadium by the end of the month.

Roof specifics secret

The circle of people who know about the roof's design is small. It includes city and team officials and the architects and consultants themselves.

Bart Dreiling, the president of a Kansas City company that deals in fabric roofing products, said a stadium architect recently showed him a design for a Florida ballpark.

Dreiling remembers the designer saying the stadium was top secret. The architect never said where in Florida the stadium was. And Dreiling never asked.

"It could have been the Devil Rays," Dreiling said. "It might not have been. I can't say."

In any event, Dreiling was reluctant to talk about that specific project.

But in general, Dreiling said what the Rays may be considering is certainly possible.

The team has hired a Minnesota consulting firm to help engineer the roof's movement.

Uni-System has designed the roofing mechanisms for three major league stadiums - football and baseball stadium in Houston, and the football stadium in Phoenix.

Cyril Silberman, Uni-Systems' founder and CEO, said he is prevented from discussing the Rays roof because of a confidentiality agreement.

But he, too, said what the team is proposing is feasible.

"It can be done," Silberman said. "The Europeans have played around with it, making retractable fabric roofs.

But "not anything like what the Rays want."

Aaron Sharockman can be reached at asharockman@sptimes.com or 727 892-2273.

[brickell]

Want to trade owners? The Rays seem to be doing the opposite of what the Marlins are trying to do. And they'll probably end up getting their stadium while the Marlins get shipped to Portland. I wish them luck. As long as they're in the AL East they're going to need it.

I vote the charm of St. Pete for selfish reasons. I enjoy St. Pete more than Tampa and going to games there is always enjoyable to me. Of course I usually only go once a year.

[John F]

^ a lot of Expo fans (yes, they existed -- past tense of course) were warning about Loria and Sampson in Miami. I feel your pain there.

Sternburg is doing a good job as a businessman -- I'll give him that. Not just as a businessman but as a savvy investor who knows the market isn't ripe for a publicly underwritten stadium. 390 of the 450 million would come from private money...

I might not be keen on a new stadium project for the Rays because of their losing ways and because of their non-endearment to the Tampa Bay area (they've rarely won more than 69 games, have never finished .500, never vyed for a playoff berth, etc), along with the location and logistical problems it creates (no parking, no mass transit, etc)....

...But Sternburg and company have done there homework.

Of coruse there are more quesitons about htings than I am stating here.... I'm waiting to see if anyone else jumps on them before I voice them

[blazertke]

http://www.sptimes.com/2007/11/17/images/TB_Raysdrawing_450.jpg


:yuck:
why even put such a hidious image in the paper. plus im sure its real reasonable to assume there are 500 foot long taut cables.

i take it, if a new stadium gets built here, the free parking will be no more.

[John F]

LOL Mark on the free parking, good call! :D

The cables are another point that people don't think about... I mean, from the seating area -- viewing the cables? Eyesore. In this render you only see a possible view from above the park.

We'll have to wait for the official renderings though to truly pass judgement.

one also has to wonder how those sails/canvas awnings would hold up under gale force winds that seldom pop up during a thunderstorm here in Florida? And seeing the Tampa Bay region routinely vies for the Lightning capital of the world title, isn't it a little awkward to attract lightning with the sail pole?

[blazertke]

parking aside.

this is a great location for a ball park. plus i agree, the real selling point for this location will be when the offical renderings are out.


side note: they should put a crows nest on that 300 ft mast. and if and when the rays lose their 100 game of the year, the mascot makes a jump for it.

[John F]

New-look Rays want a new stadium (http://tampabay.rays.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20071121&content_id=2305660&vkey=news_tb&fext=.jsp&c_id=tb)
11/21/2007 11:34 AM ET
By Bill Chastain / MLB.com

ST. PETERSBURG -- The Rays will announce details and renderings of a new waterfront ballpark and redevelopment of Tropicana Field on Nov. 28, according to a news release by the team Wednesday.

The stadium announcement will take place at 3 p.m. at Progress Energy Park, Home of Al Lang Field.

While the Rays' efforts for a new 35,000-seat, $450-million ballpark on the site of Al Lang Field in downtown St. Petersburg have been widely reported, Wednesday's scheduled event will be the Rays' first official acknowledgment of a proposed stadium.

Florida Governor Charlie Crist and St. Petersburg Mayor Rick Baker are scheduled to attend, as well as Bob DuPuy, Major League Baseball president and chief operating officer; Stuart Sternberg, Rays principal owner; Matt Silverman, Rays president; and Michael Kalt, senior vice president of development and business affairs.

According to reports, the Rays might contribute as much as $150 million -- to cover one-third of the costs -- and the team also would seek legislative approval for $60 million of future sales tax revenues from the state of Florida to make the stadium a reality by 2012. In addition, the team wants to find a private developer to construct a large retail/residential complex where Tropicana Field sits so the team could get out of its lease.

Al Lang Field has been the site of the Rays' Spring Training exhibition games throughout the team's history, but the Rays are scheduled to move from the locale on the St. Petersburg waterfront to Port Charlotte for Spring Training in 2009. Because Al Lang Field is housed on public property, voters would need to approve the new stadium. Also, the plan would depend on the city being able to sell the Al Lang site to Pinellas County, which would create a situation in which property taxes could be avoided. If the deal comes to fruition, the Rays would seek a long-term deal.

Approximately $100 million is still owed by the city on Tropicana Field, which will not be paid off until 2025. St. Petersburg could recover what it owes if a private developer purchased Tropicana Field and the adjacent parking lot.

Reports have said the proposed stadium will be an open-air facility, with a plan calling for an available option that would allow it to be covered with a sail-like material on a cabling system in the event of inclement weather.

Under this stadium plan, the design is expected to have a retro look. Longtime fans attending games at Al Lang Field would need to get used to having the playing field face a different direction to facilitate a field that would allow home run balls hit to right field to land in the water, which would be akin to AT&T Park in San Francisco.

[brickell]

Keep us updated.

The state sales tax issue is an interesting one. The Marlins have been turned down 3 years running (at least that long). But they already got the tax break for retrofitting Dolphin stadium. Some view it as double dipping, even though it was a different owner. I'm not sure if the Rays also claimed it on Tropicana. Any idea? But it's not uncommon. I believe most of the stadiums/arenas in the past have been granted the exemption.

[blazertke]

i really wish cities would stop funding stadiums with public tax dollars. time and time again these team owners are getting increasingly rich with these city tax dollar deals. the glazers are a perfect example.

i would not support a stadium using tax dollars. and if any public official tries to help the rays to get such a deal, i will do whatever i can to make sure they are removed from office.

[Johnland]

How awful for the new residents of downtown if a stadium moves in. The congestion that will come with it will be a blight on the budding urban ambiance. I couldn't think of a worse location for a sports venue than some place tucked away on the waterfront of downtown St pete. I would think the current location near the interstate would be better suited. Granted, the current stadium is an eyesore - it looks more like an oil storage facility for Sunoco rather than a stadium, but the location is better.

[vertex]

Ok, let me get this straight...

You guys are planning to replace a stadium that isn't paid for yet, with a stadium that essentially amounts to a tent that has no parking, no air conditioning, and holds 10,000 fewer people? Do I have that right?

http://www.sptimes.com/2007/11/17/images/TB_Raysdrawing_450.jpg

[blazertke]

Ok, let me get this straight...
You guys are planning to replace a stadium that isn't paid for yet, with a stadium that essentially amounts to a tent that has no parking, no air conditioning, and holds 10,000 fewer people? Do I have that right?

yes... as long as you substitute "The Rays" in place of "You Guys"

[John F]

How awful for the new residents of downtown if a stadium moves in. The congestion that will come with it will be a blight on the budding urban ambiance. I couldn't think of a worse location for a sports venue than some place tucked away on the waterfront of downtown St pete. I would think the current location near the interstate would be better suited. Granted, the current stadium is an eyesore - it looks more like an oil storage facility for Sunoco rather than a stadium, but the location is better.

A new stadium -- if the Trop was paid for and all that -- built specifically in St. Pete would be best on the Tropicana Field parking lots - not on the waterfront, not on a band-box footprint, not with an airport next door and a unversity campus as well (USF-St. Petersburg).

[John F]

There was something that I didn't think about when this story broke (I was in LA at the time when I saw the story on my blackberry)... That was the fact there had been a St. Petersburg city election just days earlier....

...and talks between the city and the team have been going on throughout campaign season without any mention of the stadium until just after the elections were held:
A lie of omission? More like just a lie (http://www.sptimes.com/2007/11/27/Columns/A_lie_of_omission_Mor.shtml)

By HOWARD TROXLER
Published November 27, 2007

No, no, no, no, no, no, no.

No to the city of St. Petersburg.

No to its government. No to its mayor. No to its deputy mayors and assistant pooh-bahs.

They do not get to run the government like this. They just don't.

For much of 2007, the citizens of St. Petersburg, also known as taxpayers and voters, believed that they were taking part in actual democracy.

They thought they were taking part in a public process to decide the future of the city's waterfront.

They showed up, they signed up to speak, they testified, they pleaded. The city pretended to be listening.

We now know it was a sham. Since March 2007, the city had a signed confidentiality agreement with the Tampa Bay Rays concerning plans to use the waterfront for a 35,000-seat, $450-million baseball stadium.

And all of those voters, and citizens, and taxpayers, who thought they were Making Their Voices Heard and all of that kind of civics-class nonsense were just being suckers.

But they weren't the only suckers. All of us who live in St. Petersburg are suckers as well.

That's why the all-wise City Hall decided it was best to keep this proposal concealed from the city's voters even during the city election.

To which a sane person can only ask, in amazement:

Are you kidding me?

The biggest, most important decision the city will make in a generation, and the city believes it is none of the voters' business even while they are choosing the next City Council?

I want a do-over.

I want a new election. I want the mayor and entire City Council recalled so the voters can have an honest election about the future of the city based on the truth.

Tell me, now, how many other secret deals does Mayor Rick Baker have going? What else don't we know? Can we trust the water department? The parks? The heads of police and fire?

How many other times has the city abused this state law that allows Florida government to cast secrecy over anything labeled "economic development"?

We are not talking merely about a new widget factory coming to St. Petersburg, which is the kind of thing for which this secrecy was intended. (Even that loophole is sleazy, if you ask me.)

Neither are we just talking about the need to give the Rays a little elbow room and breathing space before their plans became public.

No. On top of all that, the city actually went through the charade of holding a public process of rewriting its land-use codes, and of pretending to be taking public input.

So why, now, should citizens believe anything that this city government says in a public process?

It will be interesting now to see how much "public input" the city intends to allow as this baseball deal proceeds.

It will be fascinating to see exactly how the sale of the existing Tropicana Field is supposed to produce a pot of gold.

It will be downright transfixing to learn who is supposed to be on the hook for any shortfall.

Oh, and I am even mildly curious as to whether the city really intends to allow an election that gives the voters the last say. The City Charter requires one, but we can see how much "democracy" actually matters in St. Petersburg.

[John F]

The press conference has been moved up to 2:15 (probably because the Republican debate is in St. Petersburg tonight). I'll post where and when I can with new info and renders.

BTW -- there's also a poll up at www.sticksoffire.com about where the Rays should play (Tropicana field, a new waterfront park, somewhere in Tampa? Somewhere outside of Tampa Bay?)

[John F]

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[John F]

The Rays also revealed a new website tied to the redevelopment / stadium effort called Major League Downtown (http://www.majorleaguedowntown.com/)

[blazertke]

unfortunately, its not going to happen. the financials involved are too unrealistic.

hey, but rays announced their going to spend 6 to 8 million more this next year to field a team! which means they'll be able to add one overated veteran past the pinnicle of his career to the worst team in baseball. yahoo, maybe they'll win 70 next year

[John F]

What's coming into question is the redevelopment of the Tropicana Field property and parking lots. That's public land and how it's developed or sold off means a lot of different things...

People are looking at it like they are selling the land for a quick dime and yet aren't getting the most out of the deal (money wise or development wise).

[Jasonhouse]

Damn right they're not. This deal is a much bigger corporate welfare scam than the original Dome ever was.

[John F]

New Rays tax? Depends on how you define it (http://www.sptimes.com/2007/11/30/Southpinellas/New_Rays_tax_Depends_.shtml)

The no-new-tax pledge may be crucial in getting the issue passed. But it's debatable.

By AARON SHAROCKMAN and NICOLE HUTCHESON, Times Staff Writers
Published November 30, 2007

ST. PETERSBURG - On one point, the Tampa Bay Rays couldn't more clear. The team's proposal to build a $450-million waterfront stadium calls for no new taxes.

The pledge will be critical toward winning the approval of St. Petersburg voters in time for a possible referendum next November.

But is it true?

"As my friend Bill Clinton might say, it depends on what the definition of 'it' is," St. Petersburg City Council member Bill Foster said Thursday, the day after the team formally unveiled its plans.

Put another way, the Rays statement is all about perspective - and context.

The Rays financing plan for a 34,000-seat stadium at the Al Lang Field site primarily comes from three sources: the team's future rent payments to the city, a state sales tax subsidy and the sale and redevelopment of Tropicana Field and the adjacent parking lots.

In at least two of the cases, and possibly all three, public resources and public money would be involved.

But new taxes? Technically, no.

The Rays said they haven't finalized all the details, but under the latest scenario, the largest chunk of the stadium budget, $250-million to $300-million, would come from the publicly owned Tropicana site.

Some would come from the outright sale of the land to a private developer.

The other portion would come as the result of the site's redevelopment. City and county property taxes from the Tropicana site would be redirected under a city program already in place into downtown capital projects - in this case, the new stadium.

The money, of course, is not the team's to spend. But without the Rays moving to the waterfront, there would be no money for the city or county or any other taxing authority to spend, either.

In that regard it's not a new tax, but rather the sale of a city asset, Foster and others said Thursday. The public return would be two new economic engines that could pump millions of new dollars into the local economy.

"You could make an argument that, yeah, it's taxpayers' money, but we're creating something that wasn't there before, and when the loans are paid off, you have a redeveloped site and a new stadium," said City Council Chairman Jamie Bennett.

Plus, other government agencies, including the Pinellas school system, would stand to directly benefit from the Tropicana redevelopment, said City Council member Jeff Danner.

"We won't collect ad valorem property taxes for the city, but the school board, PSTA and juvenile welfare and other agencies will collect their taxes," he said. "Those entities will benefit from extending the tax base on the 80-acre site where currently no one is getting any tax base."

State money squishy

The Rays say they will ask the state Legislature to provide $60-million spread out over 30 years in the form of a sales tax subsidy.

The revenue stream could translate into about $30-million in cash for construction costs if the team asked the city to issue bonds.

The sales tax and subsidy program themselves are hardly new, but giving that money to the Rays means it could not be spent somewhere else. Roads. Education. Social services.

"Things are tight, and they're going to be getting tighter," state Rep. Tom Anderson, R-Dunedin, said when he first heard of the proposal. "I would think it would be a pretty hard sell."

And even the Rays' contribution would fall, at least in part, on the back of taxpayers.

The Rays propose to increase their yearly rent payments to the city from about $1-million to about $10-million. The city would then issue government bonds, with the rent as the pledged revenue, to make up the team's contribution.

The Rays would do it that way rather than by making a lump sum payment to make best use of Major League Baseball's revenue-sharing rules.

Rays senior vice president Michael Kalt, the team's point person on stadium negotiations, said the Rays plans would help, not hurt, the local taxpayer.

"If you are a taxpayer in the city of St. Petersburg or Pinellas County and you pay $1 in taxes currently, your taxes aren't going to go to $1.05 because of this project and that dollar's going to go to the exact same thing the dollar's always been going to," he said.

The stakes are high, a St. Petersburg Times poll of 616 city voters last week found.

Fifty-seven percent of people surveyed would favor plans to build a new stadium if no city tax dollars were used. If St. Petersburg tax dollars were part of the equation, 69 percent said they would oppose the plan.

The question now becomes: What exactly do voters consider tax dollars?

"We're not looking to subsidize anything here," said Pinellas County Commissioner Ronnie Duncan. "But again, it's so early and there are so many unanswered questions, it's hard to make a decision."

Aaron Sharockman can be reached at asharockman@sptimes.com or (727) 892-2273. Times staff writer Marc Topkin contributed to this report.

FAST FACTS

To view the plans

After keeping quiet for more than a year, the Tampa Bay Rays are putting out plenty of information about their proposed stadium and downtown redevelopment project. The team created a Web site, www.majorleaguedowntown.com, that includes renderings of the project , a virtual tour of the stadium, a time line, a list of public meetings, a section on frequently asked questions and a link for e-mail updates. And for anyone who wants to see the renderings in person (or doesn't have access to the Web), they will be on display at the Tropicana Field rotunda today and Monday-Wednesday, 9 a.m.-6 p.m. To receive stadium info by mail, call 727-342-5777.

[John F]

Rays' land request for stadium may be hard to fill (http://www.sptimes.com/2007/12/01/Southpinellas/Rays__land_request_fo.shtml)

Permits to dredge, alter sea grass beds take time.

http://www.sptimes.com/2007/12/01/images/tb_RaysEnviron_570.jpg

By CRAIG PITTMAN, Times Staff Writer
Published December 1, 2007

ST. PETERSBURG -- The Tampa Bay Rays' plans for a waterfront ballpark will face a major environmental hurdle because of regulations designed to protect the bay.

Stadium plans call for dumping fill dirt over six-tenths of an acre of Tampa Bay to create about 26,000 square feet of new land, the rough equivalent of three house lots.

The Rays then want the city to reroute Bayshore Drive across the new land, making the road bow out into the bay where it now bends in next to the stadium site, currently occupied by Al Lang Field.

Planners and biologists familiar with Tampa Bay predict that getting state and federal permits to fill in that much of the bay -- and in a spot that state records show contains several patches of sea grass beds vital to the health of the bay -- could be more difficult than the Rays expect.

"There's a lot of things lined up there that are going to make it difficult," predicted Suzanne Cooper of the Agency on Bay Management, an arm of the Tampa Bay Regional Planning Council. "They've got a lot of hurdles."

Not only are such dredge-and-fill projects rarely requested, but for the past 30 years that area has been part of a state aquatic preserve, said Holly Greening, chief scientist of the Tampa Bay Estuary Program.

The preserve status legally protects its "aesthetic, biological and scientific values" for "the enjoyment of future generations."

But without filling in the bay and relocating the road, "you're just out of room" for the stadium on that particular site, said Joseph Spear, the principal architect with HOK Sport, which designed the proposed new stadium.

Under the current alignment, Spear said, the distance between home plate and the right field fence would be a mere 270 feet -- more suited to Little League than the majors.

"The site is very tight," agreed Michael Kalt, the Rays' project manager. "It would be very difficult to accommodate a major league field on that site."

Many of Florida's waterfront developments were built using just such dredge-and-fill techniques -- Miami Beach, for instance.

But by the 1960s the consequences of turning water into land were becoming starkly apparent. When the owner of a South Pasadena mobile home park proposed filling in nearly 12 acres of Boca Ciega Bay to expand his property, more than 100 opponents turned out at a public hearing to complain that previous dredging projects had turned the bay muddy and foul, producing a stench at low tide.

In 1967, in what became a landmark decision, the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers turned down the permit application because of the environmental consequences, putting public interest ahead of private profit. The U.S. Supreme Court ultimately upheld that decision.

These days dredge-and-fill projects in open water are fairly rare, Cooper and Greening said, and the permitting process can drag on.

Sea grass quandary

For instance, in August 2001 the Florida Department of Transportation sought a permit to dredge and fill part of Tampa Bay to expand the Courtney Campbell Parkway. The permit was approved 15 months later.

Complicating that permitting process, DOT officials said, was that the fill displaced sea grass beds. The head of the corps' regulatory division in Florida, David Hobbie, said that's always going to slow things down.

"Any time you get sea grass beds, that always gets a little stickier," Hobbie said. Normally in such cases, sea grass beds must be transplanted or replaced in some way.

He also noted that the presence of manatees, an endangered species, could add another complication to the permitting. Since no docks are being proposed, however, the corps is unlikely to reject the permit application because of that.

Hobbie and the head of the corps' office in Tampa, Chuck Schnepel, said no one from the Rays or its consultant, Nebraska-based HDR, has contacted federal regulators about getting the dredge-and-fill permits. State Department of Environmental Protection officials said they, too, have not been contacted by the Rays or HDR.

To longtime environmental consultant and sea grass expert Roy "Robin" Lewis, the Rays need to get moving fast on figuring out how they will convince the state and federal regulators that they can make up for the loss of sea grasses in that area, because that's likely to be the key.

"If there are proposed sea grass impacts," Lewis wrote in an e-mail to the St. Petersburg Times, "whomever is handling the permitting had better get the process started NOW."

The Rays are confident that the permitting issues, "while certainly a challenge, are not by any means insurmountable," Kalt said. He defended the team's prediction that all the permits could be obtained by October, with ground-breaking in May 2009, as "manageable."

When Cooper of the Agency on Bay Management heard that schedule, though, she chuckled and said, "Well, if you're going to dream, dream big."

Times staff writer Aaron Sharockman and researcher Angie Drobnic Holan contributed to this report.

[John F]

Lot of curve balls could derail Rays (http://www.sptimes.com/2007/12/02/Southpinellas/Lot_of_curve_balls_co.shtml)

Any number of factors could stall a new stadium.

By AARON SHAROCKMAN, Times Staff Writer
Published December 2, 2007

ST. PETERSBURG - The Tampa Bay Rays hope to break ground on a downtown waterfront stadium in 500 days.

But getting there will test the limits of government and the patience of people.

Rays officials insist they can make their schedule. Others are uncertain if the stadium ever will be built.

Here's why. Ahead of a planned citywide referendum next November, the Rays need to - in no particular order:

-Convince Mayor Rick Baker and other city leaders that a new stadium is a good idea.

-Receive a $60-million pledge from the cash-strapped state Legislature.

-Get the city and Pinellas County to amend the master plan for St. Petersburg's downtown.

-Generate enough interest in Tropicana Field to fetch at least $100-million from the sale of it.

-Create a workable traffic plan.

-Navigate several state and federal regulatory agencies.

-Work out a plan to pay off the city's existing debt at Tropicana Field.

One misstep could doom the project, which the Rays say would be worth more than $1-billion.

And even if they succeed, the Rays must still get city voters to approve.

"There are a thousand moving pieces to this, and they're not even on Step One in my book," said City Council member Bill Foster.

Rays senior vice president Michael Kalt, the point person on the stadium project, acknowledges that many details still need to be worked out. But, he said, that work could not begin before the team went public with its plans on Wednesday.

Now that it has, a more formal and inclusive process can begin, Kalt said.

"We are under no illusion that this will be easy," he said. "But we are very confident that this project will come together."

Political hurdles

The Rays unveiled plans last week to construct a 34,000-seat, $450-million open-air stadium on the current site of Al Lang Field.

The team faces obstacles no matter the source of the money to pay for it.

City and county governments tired of tightening their belts likely will face even larger budget shortfalls next year and beyond, said Pinellas County Commissioner Susan Latvala.

It doesn't make sense to begin to consider the Rays' plan until next spring, when a state tax reform commission makes its recommendations for property tax cuts, she said.

"If some of these proposals are actually passed and local taxes are dramatically decreased, we will only be paying for essential services such as the operation of the jail," Latvala said. "We won't even have health and human services money."

And if the Rays seek to benefit from tax increment financing - a program that would redirect city and county tax dollars from a redeveloped Tropicana Field into downtown capital projects - Latvala says there would be problems, too.

"Get in line," she said. "Everybody would like to do that."

Across the country, public sentiment is turning against taxpayer financing of sports stadiums. Just last year, residents of Seattle and Sacramento opposed publicly funded basketball arenas.

"I've got no money to put in a project," Mayor Baker said.

Even though the Rays stress that they aren't asking for new taxes to support their plan, City Council Chairman Jamie Bennett said it's naive to think that the city won't be asked to contribute in some way.

"To think we're not going to have to participate one way or another, that's wishful thinking," Bennett said. "This ... has a framework that you can begin putting it all together and hopefully it will not prove to be a hardship to the city."

The team also is seeking $60-million from the state Legislature and millions more from the sale of the publicly owned Tropicana site.

"At the state level, we have some financial challenges, but I also know that we need to continue to find ways to stimulate this great economy," said Gov. Charlie Crist, a stadium proponent.

Labyrinth of approvals

Money is not the only hurdle. And it may not even prove the most significant.

The plans for the new stadium call for dumping fill dirt in six-tenths of an acre of Tampa Bay to create new land. Then the city would re-route Bayshore Drive across the new land.

Without filling in the bay, architects say the stadium won't fit under the proposed plans. But in order to do it, the team must first traverse a labyrinth of state and federal agencies.

And that's just one layer of government needed to make the Rays' proposal a reality.

The city and county - and possibly the state - would have to sign off on the potential redevelopment of the 85-acre Tropicana site.

And the Federal Aviation Administration would have to approve plans for a new ballpark, since the site is so close to Albert Whitted Airport.

The Rays also have to win over Baker, a powerful potential ally who has yet to commit either way on the project.

Baker was asked by the Rays to speak at last week's unveiling, but declined. The mayor said he needs to see the team's final proposal before making up his mind.

His support is critical to any project getting off the ground.

"We're going to be cautious until we get more details," said Baker, who said he likes the idea of playing baseball overlooking the waterfront. But he also says he likes watching games at Tropicana Field.

Then there's the matter of St. Petersburg voters.

Voters never got the chance to decide whether to build Tropicana, but they will get the final say on plans for a waterfront ballpark because of extra waterfront protections in the City Charter.

They will be asked - likely next November - to approve a long-term lease for the Rays, not a financing plan. But the Rays, the city and everyone else knows the vote will be a referendum on the project, not a lease.

A St. Petersburg Times survey of 616 registered city voters found both pockets of support and opposition for the plan. Fifty-seven percent of voters surveyed said they would favor plans to build a stadium if no city tax dollars were used. But if St. Petersburg tax dollars were part of the equation, 69 percent said they would oppose the plan.

"The biggest piece to all of this, and the one that's being ignored today, is the vote of the residents of St. Petersburg," Foster said.

"Assuming the stars line up at the end of the day, and it comes down to a referendum, it doesn't matter what the people of Clearwater or Tampa think," Foster said. "It's not about Tampa Bay at that point. It's about the residents of the city of St. Pete."

Times staff writers Nicole Hutcheson and Craig Pittman contributed to this report.



Obstacles facing the Rays

Tax cuts from the state: The Rays already benefit from a $60-million tax break courtesy of the state Legislature. Asking for a second one may not go over well.

Making it fit: The stadium architect says the Al Lang Field site is the smallest ever contemplated for a modern major league stadium. Can a major league facility fit on 10 acres?

Dredge and fill: The Rays reportedly want to dredge and fill a small portion of the water next to the stadium.

Parking:The Rays say there are 12,000 parking spaces within a 15-minute walk of Al Lang Field. The city only controls 5,400. If the stadium is ever built, where will the fans park? What about people coming downtown for something other than baseball?

$$$$ for the Trop: The team is planning to use the proceeds of the sale of Tropicana Field to pay for a large portion of the new stadium. How much is the Trop worth? Would the city and county want a cut?

It's hot in the summer: The retractable shade-sail roof could cut up to 10 degrees off the temperature inside the stadium, the team says. Is that possible?

City voters: Perhaps the most difficult hurdle of all. The Rays want a referendum next November.

[tampamobster21]

This is amazing. I can not believe that they are going to build a stadium with the economy the way it is.

[John F]

This is amazing. I can not believe that they are going to build a stadium with the economy the way it is.

Nothing guarantees that it will happen. The economy has gotten worse since the November rumors started swirling.

And part of funding for this ballpark hedges it's bets on what money they coudl get for the 70+ acres of PUBLIC land in the middle of downtown. Real estate development is not a sure thing right now and it could potentially be a billion dollar loss of revenue by underselling the property during this downcycle.

[John F]

City sets stadium timetable (http://www.sptimes.com/2007/12/08/Southpinellas/City_sets_stadium_tim.shtml)

A developer for the Tropicana Field site would be picked May 1.

By AARON SHAROCKMAN, Times Staff Writer
Published December 8, 2007

ST. PETERSBURG -- The city hopes to select a developer for Tropicana Field by May 1 and approve a fall stadium referendum a month later, according to an aggressive and detailed timetable released by the city on Friday.

The schedule calls for the city to begin soliciting proposals from developers for the Trop site next month, with responses due March 18.

The city timeline lays out the path toward a possible November referendum on the Rays' proposal to construct a $450-million waterfront stadium. But it does not guarantee it, city officials insisted Friday.

The project could be halted or postponed at any point, officials said. And the city has not committed to supporting the project.

City Council chairman Jamie Bennett said Friday he believes the city's timeline is tight, but achievable.

"We don't have much of a choice," Bennett said. The city "is working with the time frame the Rays gave us."

The Rays announced late last month a proposal to build a new 34,000-seat stadium on the current site of Al Lang Field, which largely would be paid for by the simultaneous redevelopment of the publicly owned Tropicana site. The plan was first revealed by the St. Petersburg Times' Web site, tampabay.com.

The team says that between the sale of the 85-acre Trop site, and the city and county property taxes generated from its redevelopment, more than $250-million could be generated for the construction of a new stadium.

The response from developers will help determine if that's realistic.

City officials will solicit developers' bids in the form of a request for proposals, or RFP.

City senior development administrator Rick Mussett said the request will be written broadly to attract the most ideas.

One developer could imagine a residential community. Another could envision a International Plaza-type mall.

The Rays already have lined up one developer, Hines Interests of Houston, which may bid on the site. But Bennett said he believes other national developers may be interested as well.

The first public discussion will come Jan. 10, during a City Council work session.

The RFP is scheduled to be released eight days later.

"I'm very hopeful that we'll be able to get all the information that the citizens of St. Pete will need to make a proper decision," Bennett said. "There's some very exciting things about this process. But we have to make sure people have ample opportunity to study and examine the issues -- good and bad."

[John F]

And of course, the local yokels get a chance to come off like absolute moronic idiots in their opposition to the plan. I have no problem with those who oppose the new stadium. I do have a problemw ith those who oppose the new stadium and make a fool out of all locals because of it:

Rays hear ideas for the Trop (http://www.sptimes.com/2008/01/10/Southpinellas/Rays_hear_ideas_for_t.shtml)

The team hosts 331 residents intent on discussing the site's future.

By AARON SHAROCKMAN, Times Staff Writer
Published January 10, 2008

ST. PETERSBURG -- In right field, on the spongy fake grass, beneath an advertisement for Pepsi and another for Budweiser, an eclectic mix of 331 residents plotted a potential future for Tropicana Field on Wednesday.

The discussion was robust. Passionate, but not hostile.

The ideas were endless.

Unanimity, however, was not to be found.

"It's nice that they actually asked us what we thought," said Janet Dunne, a downtown resident who supports growth -- in moderation.

In groups of 10, the residents were armed with markers and asked to draw the future of the 86 acres along First Avenue S and 16th Street.

The groups mixed politicians and developers, lawyers and environmental activists. Two people protested outside the Trop.

One woman protested inside.

Joan Martin, a 68-year-old St. Petersburg resident, created a necklace in yellow that said "Save the Dome." She held a pink sign in her hand to match.

She was seated at the same table as Craig Sher, the president of the Sembler Co. and one of the people interested in developing the Tampa Bay Rays' current home.

As Sher talked about the possibilities for the site -- from retail to office to affordable housing -- Martin recalled an event at the domed stadium that drew exercise guru Richard Simmons.

"It was packed," she said. "Where would we go if the dome was gone?"

Sher talked about the possibility of office space.

"Dime a dozen," Martin chimed in.

Someone else talked about housing.

"Dime a dozen," she said again.

At one point, Martin stood on her seat and waved her sign.

For the most part, people were cautious about replacing Tropicana Field, which opened in 1990. But many were at least open to the idea.

The Rays want to build a $450-million stadium on the site of Al Lang Field. To pay for it, they propose redeveloping Tropicana Field and its adjacent parking lots. The team also would contribute $150-million to construction through yearly lease payments.

"This is a suburban baseball park in an urban area," former City Council member Jay Lasita told his group seated at Table 30. "The whole proposition, the Rays' proposition, deserves a reasonable discussion. Not just a gut reaction."

"I'm a baseball fan, but I like the idea of a dome," Cory Calvin said to a group at a table nearby.

Gail Eggeman, a former city employee who lives just near BayWalk in downtown St. Petersburg, said she was excited at the prospect of redeveloping the Tropicana Field site, but she would like it better if the Rays relocated closer to the Gandy Bridge area.

"They lit up my mind about what could happen if there was no baseball," Eggeman said.

During their introductory remarks, both Mayor Rick Baker and City Council Chairman Jamie Bennett took great pains to make clear that they have not endorsed or agreed to any of the Rays' requests.

The Rays say they haven't agreed to anything, either. They believe their plan is feasible, team president Matt Silverman said. But they also admit it may not work.

On Wednesday, team and city officials began their search for answers. Council members will decide on Jan. 17 whether to solicit developer proposals for the Tropicana Field site.

"This is an information gathering process," Baker said. "The city and I have not committed to either opposing this project or supporting this project. I believe all of our jobs is to gather as much information as we can."

Times staff writer Stephanie Garry contributed to this report.



Fast facts: Tropicana Field's future
People were asked to rank five potential land uses for the Tropicana site, and another five design principles for the redevelopment. Among land use ideas, residential and retail were chosen as favorites. The top two design principles: pedestrian friendly and mid-rised, mixed use.

[John F]

All right, this is the most recent story on teh issue. There were a few others but I thought I had flooded the general Development forum enough tonight :p This catchs the news up on the Rays ballpark proposal...

I'd include the photo from the story but it looked like a shuffleboard rally. I'll leave it at that.

Rays park hearing draws a full house (http://www.sptimes.com/2008/02/22/Rays/Rays_park_hearing_dra.shtml)

The stadium's financing, potential for jobs were on the minds of more than 200 people.

By Aaron Sharockman, Times Staff Writer
Published February 22, 2008

ST. PETERSBURG - Opponents and supporters unleashed their first impressions of the Tampa Bay Rays' $1-billion stadium and redevelopment plan to the City Council on Thursday, during a sometimes fiery and sometimes light-hearted debate that is likely only to intensify.

At least 200 people converged on City Hall for the first of three public hearings to discuss the Rays' complicated downtown megadevelopment.

Proponents came dressed in white.

Opponents wore red.

The hearing took on all the drama of an all-out election fight, and the meeting dragged well into the night.

Rays officials provided free white T-shirts and buttons to their supporters, including many local union tradesmen working on the new All Children's Hospital in St. Petersburg.

Opponents, who came in different shades of red, argued that the T-shirt giveaway may violate state election laws.

The groups jockeyed for position in speaking order and even for seats in the council chamber. The first speaker, Caesar Civitella, was at City Hall shortly after 1 p.m. for the 6:30 p.m. meeting.

"When the Rays decided to move (their spring training) to Port Charlotte, they turned their back on the city of St. Petersburg," said Civitella, when he finally got his say.

Rays president Matt Silverman and a handful of team officials and supporters spent the night tucked into one of the city's first-floor meeting rooms. Opponents waited in another meeting room next door.

The size of the turnout was expected. The parity among the groups may have been a surprise.

Among the speakers to the council, opponents outnumbered supporters more than 2-to-1. Many lived in Bayfront Tower, a condominium across the street from Al Lang Field.

But nearly 100 local union workers stood on the steps of City Hall in support of the Rays.

Robert Beann, a 49-year-old St. Petersburg plumber, addressed the City Council for the first time in his life on Thursday. With worn-through jeans and an unshaven face, Beann stood at the microphone and asked council members to support the project.

"I don't live on Beach Drive," he said. "I make my living doing construction. If you build the park, you put people to work. I'm worried about feeding my family."

Council members listened to the speakers, but said little themselves. The council will be asked in June whether or not to schedule a citywide referendum.

Mayor Rick Baker, who has been noticeably absent from the stadium discussion, did not attend Thursday's hearing. Baker said earlier in the day that he had a scheduling conflict.

Opponents attacked several aspects of the plan, from the secrecy of the negotiations between the city and the team last year, to the environmental and traffic impacts of a new stadium at Al Lang Field. They also questioned the proposed financing plan, which relies heavily on the development of the publicly owned Tropicana Field site.

"I don't like being taken advantage of by the team's owners," said Robert Bedford, a city resident and professor at the University of South Florida. "This proposal is all about the Rays' owner increasing the value of their franchise."

The last speaker, number 109, brought up the finances again. Community activist Karl Nurse wanted the city to be sure it got the best possible deal.

"We can't afford to guess wrong on this," Nurse said.

With that, the crowd thinned, the cleaning crews retook the halls and life went back to normal at City Hall.

Fast facts

Voice your opinion

The next public hearings on the Rays' redevelopment plans are scheduled for April 10 and May 22.

[John F]

Re: skepticism, billions and billions of dollars worth of stadia are u/c in the US right now, billions of dollars worth in NYC alone.

Where the hell you been, Dale? I ahven't see you around much.

As for the stadiums under construction elsewhere: Outside of NYC -- where else are they going up? The financing was secured before the economy went to hell. And to compared developments, this would be more like redeveloping Willets Point in Flushing, New York... But the comparison ends there. The money being thrown around by the local government -- teh dollar amounts, the plans, makes it look like thsi is goign to be a robbery of public lands. Someoen si goign to get it on teh cheap.

My skepticicsm isn't about getting money for the ballpark. It's for the value fo the land that Tropicana Field and it's parking lot shave. St. Petersburg is a residential boom town and developing that land would be better in better economic times to get max return. Citifield in Flushing is being built on the Shea Stadium parking lot. new Yankee Stadium is being errected on public land as well.

How many new stadiums are attached to major redevelopment opportunities? I mean, the new Giants/Jets stadium doesn't compare -- the swamps of Jersey aren't downtown...

[John F]

3yesh0ttheS

[John F]

Three bids on Trop (http://blogs.tampabay.com/rays/2008/03/awaiting-bid-op.html)

UPDATE (11 a.m.) -- Kitty just asked if Tropicana Field will be demolished or sold before a potential November referendum on the Rays' stadium plan. The answer is no. The city has made it clear to developers that the sale of the land will NOT happen, unless the Rays' stadium proposal is approved by voters in November. If anyone else has questions, I'll be happy to try to answer them.

UPDATE (10:55 a.m.) -- It will be a few hours, the city says, before we know more about the three bids. City officials are just now beginning to sort through the 1/2-inch thick documents. The city says it hopes to make summaries of each bid available this afternoon, and the whole document available by the end of the day.

Here's what we know about the three developers:

Hines --- The group the Tampa Bay Rays have been working with, Hines' bid was all but assured months ago. They're calling their proposal WestEnd St. Pete. The publicly known concept includes 1-million square feet of retail space (the size approx. of International Plaza) and about 900 homes.

Archstone-Madison -- A partnership between Archstone Smith and Madison Marquetee, two D.C.-area companies. We told you on Sunday they may be a likely bidder. Their project is called EcoVerde.

Williams Quater -- The company we know the least about. In fact, we couldn't find them in a quick Google search. But they are partnering with DeBartolo Holdings, a Tampa company known for retail developments.

City officials say all of the bids were received this morning. Both city and Rays officials sounded pleased with the response from the development community. We'll update this post later when we know more about the bids.

UPDATE (10:18 a.m.) -- Three bids: Williams Quarter (teaming with DeBartolo Holdings and other developers); Archstone-Madison; Hines.

UPDATE (10:16 a.m.) -- City economic development director Dave Goodwin just walked in. He's carrying three packets of information. Looks like three bids.

UPDATE (10:12 a.m.) --- Rays officials Michael Kalt, Melanie Lenz and Robbie Artz just walked in. We're still waiting on the city.

ST. PETERSBURG -- We're here on the eighth floor of the city's downtown Municipal Services Building, waiting for city officials to unveil the bids for the possible redevelopment of Tropicana Field. It's mainly an affair for the media, though former City Council member Kathleen Ford is seated in the back row. (Ford, you might remember, argued earlier this month that the bidding process should be stopped because she believed the developer the Tampa Bay Rays are working with, Hines, had an unfair advantage.)

It's hard to know what to expect. Quietly, city officials are hoping for three bids to redevelop the 86-acre site. To put that in some perspective, a 110-acre Washington D.C. site drew seven initial bids last fall.

What'll be more interesting is the price that developers are offering. The money generated by the possible redevelopment is critical to the Rays' $450-million stadium proposal. We should have some information within the half hour. Details of the proposal, however, may not be available until this afternoon, city officials say.

[John F]

No renderings are public so far as I know besides teh hines urban-Suburbia concepts that are posted on the first page.

[John F]

The proposals are online in PDF format. I am still going thorugh them as they are in depth -- or at least the one I am looking at now.

[John F]

Archstone-Williams proposal: Ecoverde (http://www.stpete.org/raysproposal/pdf/archstone_vision_8x11l_2.pdf)

Williams Quarter (http://www.stpete.org/raysproposal/pdf/williams_site_design.pdf)

Hines (http://www.stpete.org/raysproposal/pdf/hines_vision.pdf)

All three proposals seem to present the land as a chance to have greenspace. The Hines vision is mostly presented on the first page here and not in their PDF. Teh Williams Quarter proposal looks like an Apartment complex at best. Archstone goes into depth about everything...

[John F]

There is a slate of arrticles that have apepared over the last few months about the redevelopment adn the stadium itself but there is also a lot of neighborhood hostility and disinformation that I am seeing right now with the stadiuma nd knee-jerk anti-reaction.

I'm not entirely pro-stadium as I don't believe in a St. Pete location for a ballpark. Never have cared. I also buy into the motto that the Rays haven't exactly proved their worth to the ara -- and earned a new ballpark.

But the disinformation from residents to stop teh stadium bothered me. I had an ex girlfriend come to me today to complain. She just moved into St. Peterburg's "Old northeat" neighborhood. She told me of an entertainment complex they were planning on sticking onto the stadium and that is when I had alarms goign off.

There's no space. And in any of these renderings I have produced, you can see the Rays plan no such thing on their new ballpark.

There are reasons to be concerned -- 16 blocks and a half billion dollar price tag seems high. The real estate market isn't exactly goign to help generate the money the team needs to be generated to finance the stadium construction. There is no parking -- specifically event related parking -- downtown.

Do residents really need to reach with regards to reasons why the stadium is bad for them?

Better yet, do I have to take an ultra-extreme stance in order to come off anti-stadium? I'm no NIMBY, that's for sure. It's more like timing how I don't se it working. I like the stadium design, it's unique... But you get into the finances and it's not the best market time to put forth a project like this.

There are legit reasosn to revolt but makign up excuses bothers me.

[John F]

I'll find teh article that goes with this soon enough but the new Rays stadium is the SECOND stadium proposed for St. Petersburg, Florida that would have had a canvas roof and would have been open air.

Behold the 1983 original concept for the MLB stadium in St. Petersburg:

http://www.tampabay.com/multimedia/archive/00023/b4s_oldstadiumBW0513_23320c.jpg
(caption: Tropicana Field wasn’t always designed as a dome. This original 1983 model is what city and county leaders first thought the ballpark would look like, which is similar to what the Tampa Bay Rays are proposing now for Al Lang Field. Ultimately, city leaders abandoned the “tent” concept, saying they preferred a dome that could host other events, not just baseball. )

Well, guess again (http://www.tampabay.com/news/localgovernment/article501826.ece#)

By Aaron Sharockman, Times Staff Writer

Published Monday, May 12, 2008 7:10 PM

Tropicana Field almost looked like this.

Outdoor seating. Tented roof. Fountains in center field.

It looks a lot like a new downtown waterfront stadium proposed by the Tampa Bay Rays.

Except the image at top, taken by St. Petersburg Times photographer Fraser Hale in early 1983, is of a model of the original Tropicana design.

A Times reporter unearthed the picture recently while researching the history of Tropicana Field.

In the distance is the old Bayfront Arena, to the right is Interstate 175.

A fabric roof stretches over a boomerang-shaped stadium, anchored to the upper deck on one end, and at the ground on the other.

The design never got past the planning stages, shelved after city leaders pressed for a multipurpose dome that could attract events other than baseball.

The Rays, who will reveal a preliminary financing plan for the $450-million waterfront ballpark at noon Thursday at Tropicana Field, say they had never seen this picture before.

"People were really impressed with it," recalled Cecil Engelbert, 81, former chairman of the Pinellas Sports Authority.

"It would have sure been attractive."

Times staff researcher Mary Mellstrom contributed to this report.

[John F]

City council preps for voting on Rays' stadium
Thursday, June 5, 2008

PINELLAS COUNTY (Bay News 9) -- It is voting day for St. Petersburg city leaders.


Up for debate: the much-hyped downtown waterfront stadium for the Tampa Bay Rays.

Today, the city council will take the first of three votes on the issue.

Specifically, council members will decide if the referendum process will begin to let voters have their say on the issue in November. If they vote no, the whole thing is dead. But if they vote yes, the process of drafting the referendum language will get underway.

Councilman Karl Nurse is against the stadium but wants voters to have their say.

"Give voters the choice to say.. 'okay.' This is the last time we want to deal with this on the waterfront.' said Nurse. "And if they vote in favor..of the other of preserving the Al Lang site, then we won't be talking about plan B.. C.. Or plan D."

The city council will take a second vote in July and a final one in August. During the final vote in August, council members will hold a second reading of the referendum.

Council members would get a chance to kill the referendum altogether at that time.

If the referendum gets through the third vote, it will appear on the November ballot.


http://www.baynews9.com/content/36/2...voting+on+Rays

[POLA]

So, what was the outcome? Did city council kill it or not?

[John F]

Sorry I haven't updated the thread. No the council didn't kill it. Approved it 7-1. Also the developer was picked by the mayor yesterday -- the Archstone Maddison Marquette plan (Ecoverde). I believe I have that plan detailed ont eh previous page.

[John F]

Officials ask why Rays ballpark has to be waterfront (http://www.baynews9.com/content/36/2008/6/15/357176.html?title=Officials+ask+why+Rays+ballpark+has+to+be+waterfront#)
Sunday, June 15, 2008

PINELLAS COUNTY (Bay News 9) -- As the debate over the proposed Tampa Bay Rays stadium continues to rage, some public officials are wondering: why does it have to be on the waterfront?

According to Bay News 9's partner paper, The St. Petersburg Times, public officials are asking why the Rays aren't exploring the other sites for the new stadium.

Some of the other sites public officials say could work include the Toytown landfill, Derby Lanes, the Florida State Fairgrounds and the St. Petersburg/Clearwater International Airport. They are also wondering why re-vamping the current site doesn't seem to be an option, either.

Rays officials say they need a new home before the Tropicana lease expires in 2027. However, the team is facing considerable opposition from local residents in its quest for a new stadium. A recent St. Petersburg Times/Bay News 9 exclusive poll found that two-thirds of respondents were against the idea.

**** There is a more elaborated story on this in the St. Petersburg Times this morning but the failure fo both articles is that they only cite Pinellas county locations. They seem to have drawn the conclusion that Pinellas County is THE draw for the Rays and the majority of the Tampa Bay metroplex and the greater West Central florida region need not apply.

[John F]

Here's a video of the Ballpark in a 3d representation. (http://video.ap.org/v/Default.aspx?partner=en-ap&g=6c58e123-7fd3-4880-a585-9ac144efbcdb&f=FLPET&mk=en-ap) It amy also be on Youtube -- I know there is one such video out there but this is different.

[John F]

Not surprising in the least. This comes on the heels of large public dispproval of the project. Word of mouth (I lack poll data) says 60+ percent are opposed to the plan. It has seemed rushed and the timing is poor at best, as the first rumblings of this project came out in November 2007 as the economy was coming undone:

Rays may put brakes on stadium push (http://www.tampabay.com/news/localgovernment/article642338.ece#)

By Aaron Sharockman and Stephen Nohlgren, Times Staff Writers

Published Tuesday, June 24, 2008 10:29 PM

ST. PETERSBURG — The Tampa Bay Rays may soon abandon their push for a November referendum to build a $450-million waterfront stadium.

An announcement could come as early as today, city and county officials with knowledge of the Rays' plan told the St. Petersburg Times late Tuesday. The Rays have contemplated delaying a vote on the stadium until 2010.

The team is "considering a change of direction," said Pinellas County Commissioner Ken Welch. "I'm just glad from the county's perspective that folks are not talking about forcing a November referendum."

Rays executives did not return calls for comments Tuesday, and team officials denied as late as Monday the possibility of pushing back the referendum. Senior vice president Michael Kalt was scheduled to make a stadium presentation to a coalition of beach communities this morning.

News of a delay would slow down a process that city and county leaders from the beginning said was moving too quickly. The Rays announced their proposal to build a 34,000-seat ballpark at the site of Al Lang Field on Nov. 28.

No one the Times spoke with on Tuesday expected the Rays to halt their quest for a new ballpark, or even one on the waterfront. But the extra time would allow the city and county to consider possible alternative locations for a new stadium.

"It's fairly obvious this process needs to slow down," said Welch, who spoke with Rays president Matt Silverman this week about delaying a citywide vote on the stadium plan.

Mayor Rick Baker, who officials say knows of the Rays' plans, did not return calls for comments.

Members of the St. Petersburg City Council were unaware of a possible delay. "If the rumor is in fact true, I am pleased to hear it," said City Council member Herb Polson.

City Council member Jeff Danner said he heard the Rays were preparing to make a big announcement, but he did not know what it was.

From the beginning, the Rays argued for a 2008 referendum to capitalize on the high voter turnout associated with a presidential campaign.

Quietly, team officials think that a broader electorate might help the Rays. They also said the project's cost would likely escalate if a vote was pushed back because of the rising price of steel and concrete.

But city and county leaders consistently have argued for a possible "Plan B." Former City Council member and likely mayoral candidate Bill Foster became the latest to advocate a more protracted approach last week, when he suggested forming a baseball blue ribbon committee.

St. Petersburg's Council of Neighborhood Associations, which opposes a November referendum, also has asked the team and city to slow down.

A referendum of St. Petersburg voters is required because the Rays are seeking to lease waterfront property for the new ballpark. A non-waterfront location would not require a citywide vote, though city officials may insist on one anyway.


-------------

[John F]

p[ress conferene now on air in the Tampa Bay region on Bay News 9 -- I'm unable to follow it but I will have a transcript up when available.

http://www.baynews9.com/images/news/2008/6/25/lgstadium625.jpg buh bye