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KW4Life
Jun 1, 2009, 4:39 PM
That bus shelter looks to be in a ridiculous place. Too far off the street and between stops. Why? Bad planning FTW. :)

It's an improvement over the parking lot for sure.

(Who is the woman playing rock, paper, scissors in front of the mayor?)

taylortbb
Jun 1, 2009, 5:09 PM
(Who is the woman playing rock, paper, scissors in front of the mayor?)

I'd guess she's a sign language interpreter.

WatGuy
Jun 1, 2009, 5:44 PM
Yes, she is doing sign language. Part of the City's/Square's staff efforts to promote a key theme for the square: inclusive.

From what I hear, the square should have something going on almost every day (in the nice weather months). Lots of promise!

ForestryW
Jun 1, 2009, 9:43 PM
I like, I like. Of course the true test will come in January 2010 when it's covered in slush. Hopefully the skating rink plans come through. Regardless, it's a huge improvement over the parking lot. This is a city that knows its priorities.

KW4Life
Jun 2, 2009, 8:57 PM
I'd guess she's a sign language interpreter.

Is there is no room for comedy here? haha. I knew she was.

taylortbb
Jun 2, 2009, 9:24 PM
Is there is no room for comedy here? haha. I knew she was.

There is, but tone doesn't carry well through text, I had no idea you were joking.

Duke-Of-Waterloo
Jun 6, 2009, 7:24 PM
So, it looks like the City just went ahead and used my picture of the public square from the parkade without asking. I don't mind them using it at all, it's a good photo, but I wish they would have given it credit where it came from. Maybe if they see this, they can cite that it came from this forum, especially since they have also cited a quote from Laurier's student newspaper, The Cord, on the same page...

http://waterloo.ca/DesktopDefault.aspx?tabid=2373

Overall, I guess this means that the City has taken note of us here on SSP! :)

Anyone know when the Coke furniture arrives?

rapid_business
Jun 6, 2009, 7:36 PM
Overall, I guess this means that the City has taken note of us here on SSP! :)

Nope, just that one of the members on here works for the city. :yes:

KW4Life
Jun 8, 2009, 6:36 PM
So, it looks like the City just went ahead and used my picture of the public square from the parkade without asking. I don't mind them using it at all, it's a good photo, but I wish they would have given it credit where it came from.
That is pretty ridiculous that they didn't seek any kind of permission. That has to be copyright infringement..

Ktown4ever
Jun 9, 2009, 12:16 AM
So, it looks like the City just went ahead and used my picture of the public square from the parkade without asking. I don't mind them using it at all, it's a good photo, but I wish they would have given it credit where it came from. Maybe if they see this, they can cite that it came from this forum, especially since they have also cited a quote from Laurier's student newspaper, The Cord, on the same page...

Pretty sad that they did not have their own photographer?

Just drove by there, and the skateboarders sure are enjoying it. Maybe they should have added a half-pipe for the skaters.

rapid_business
Jun 9, 2009, 1:47 AM
/\ probably not, but skateboarders isn't a bad thing. I think it shows life in an area. So long as it's balanced with all different types and ages of people. Which can be difficult to accomplish.

smably
Jun 9, 2009, 2:37 AM
/\ probably not, but skateboarders isn't a bad thing. I think it shows life in an area. So long as it's balanced with all different types and ages of people. Which can be difficult to accomplish.
Yeah, I think the key here is balance. When I was there the other day, the entire square had been taken over by skaters, including a few guys who were grinding on the bench by the bus shelter. I'm not opposed to skaters using parts of the square, but this was a bit much, since they had pretty much taken over all the sitting spots. Skateboarding can also be incredibly noisy.

I'd hate for the square to become a place that people avoid because they can't sit down and have a conversation, or where they always have to be on the lookout so they don't get hit by an inattentive skateboarder.

Duke-Of-Waterloo
Jun 9, 2009, 2:43 AM
I'm surprised the city did not install those skateboarding-prevention brackets to the cement ridges in the square. Some of the ridges have them, while others do not...

Here is an example from Flickr:

http://img8.imageshack.us/img8/6391/bulleye.png
(from suebobdavis on Flickr)

Hey City of Waterloo - notice how I gave credit to suebobdavis from Flickr??? That is what you do if you want to use someone else's work, especially when you don't even ask for explicit permission! :rolleyes:

Maybe I will fire off an email to the public square coordinator letting them know I came across my picture on their website...

WatDot
Jun 9, 2009, 1:55 PM
Agreed Duke. As a former skateboarder I was looking at that and saying "damn why didn't they build that 10 years ago". Maybe I should dust off the deck and try it out.

... on second thought I'll stick with my Diet Pepsi. ;)

jcollins
Jun 9, 2009, 11:21 PM
I'm surprised the city did not install those skateboarding-prevention brackets to the cement ridges in the square. Some of the ridges have them, while others do not...

Here is an example from Flickr:

http://img8.imageshack.us/img8/6391/bulleye.png
(from suebobdavis on Flickr)

Hey City of Waterloo - notice how I gave credit to suebobdavis from Flickr??? That is what you do if you want to use someone else's work, especially when you don't even ask for explicit permission! :rolleyes:

Maybe I will fire off an email to the public square coordinator letting them know I came across my picture on their website...

Those metal brackets are on a lot of the other spots throughout the square, Im not sure why not everywhere.

Bauer_buyer
Jun 10, 2009, 3:31 AM
What... does no one have the guts to say what should be said?

The square is for the public...for members of the public who respect the peace and quiet of each other; a public who can go there sit, chat, read a book, contemplate, feel the blazing sun, have a drink perhaps a coffee whatever and not be confronted by the wacking sounds of boards on concrete.

Skateboarding by nature does not do that...the nature of the sport dictates a special venue. Waterloo Square is not that venue.

This is not a personal attack against skateboarders. I'm sure they are great people. In fact I wish I had taken up the sport myself...flat surfaces mind you, but they have to find another place to practice their skills.Waterloo Square is not that place.

Ktown4ever
Jun 10, 2009, 12:27 PM
I'm not offended by Skateboarders. I quite like watching them actually.

But I can see where many would find them intruding on the space.

One obvious solution, instead of the great big flat concrete space, would have been to use cobble stone. Would have been a nice effect.

But personally, I think this square if boring. It pales in comparison to the public square in downtown Kitchener in front of City Hall.

Duke-Of-Waterloo
Jun 11, 2009, 12:23 AM
But personally, I think this square if boring. It pales in comparison to the public square in downtown Kitchener in front of City Hall.

I totally agree. Kitchener's public square in front of City Hall is Disney World compared to Waterloo's public square. However, Kitchener's square is not in the best places in the Region (Downtown Kitchener...) and the surrounding aesthetics are disgusting and not appealing at all. Aside from the Public Utilities building across the street, the surroundings of Kitchener's public square are not that nice to look at and there are many "questionables" always lingering around...

That being said, I am actually somewhat embarrassed on the appearance of Waterloo's square. It's quite the opposite of Kitchener's square on both accounts: the square is basically a boring concrete slab, but the surrounding atmosphere is really nice and attractive, with nice buildings in the distance (Bauer, Sun Life, Regional Health Building, Starbucks/LCBO strip). I still think that they shouldn't have backed out of using granite surfaces as per the original plans and increased the overall amount of shade. Hopefully it will look a little better once the water feature and ice rink are added (if that ever happens :rolleyes:...). I guess the main thing is that I'm proud that Waterloo finally has a central meeting spot, regardless of how bland it is.

Ktown4ever
Jun 11, 2009, 2:31 AM
However, Kitchener's square is not in the best places in the Region (Downtown Kitchener...) and the surrounding aesthetics are disgusting and not appealing at all. Aside from the Public Utilities building across the street, the surroundings of Kitchener's public square are not that nice to look at and there are many "questionables" always lingering around...

The downtown-Kitchener bashing on this site is getting very tired.

rapid_business
Jun 11, 2009, 4:47 AM
yeah, seriously Duke. I know you have a chip on your shoulder, but come on.... It feeds the problem, it doesn't solve it.

franklincomesalive!
Jun 11, 2009, 4:54 AM
Aside from the Public Utilities building across the street, the surroundings of Kitchener's public square are not that nice to look at and there are many "questionables" always lingering around...

Especially during the winter when many come down King St. and cross the border to Kitchener to take advantage of the skating rink. A rink at the Waterloo square might remedy that situation. Eww Waterloo... :rolleyes:

Duke-Of-Waterloo
Jun 12, 2009, 2:42 AM
The downtown-Kitchener bashing on this site is getting very tired.

I don't see how you see that I'm basing Kitchener when I said in the same post that the Uptown Waterloo square is embarrassing? I provided accurate criticism on both squares as well as their benefits, so don't be so quick to point fingers. See the post for what it really is, not what it isn't.

WatDot
Jun 12, 2009, 5:30 PM
Especially during the winter when many come down King St. and cross the border to Kitchener to take advantage of the skating rink. A rink at the Waterloo square might remedy that situation. Eww Waterloo... :rolleyes:

Lies... no one that goes downtown ever comes back alive!

Mister F
Jun 14, 2009, 4:42 PM
Some pictures I took a recently:

http://i517.photobucket.com/albums/u335/mister-f/Waterloo/P1000503_resize.jpg

http://i517.photobucket.com/albums/u335/mister-f/Waterloo/P1000504_resize.jpg

http://i517.photobucket.com/albums/u335/mister-f/Waterloo/P1000507_resize.jpg

http://i517.photobucket.com/albums/u335/mister-f/Waterloo/P1000501_resize.jpg

The renderings show bistro tables and chairs in the square, does anyone know if those will be added? That, along with some food vendors would add immensely to the life of the square. Trees around the perimeter would help too. Hopefully the water feature will be installed sooner rather than later. It badly needs a centrepiece.

Duke-Of-Waterloo
Jun 14, 2009, 5:25 PM
Hopefully the water feature will be installed sooner rather than later. It badly needs a centrepiece.

The federal government just announced a major stimulus package for Waterloo for roads, but there might be more money coming in the future for the water feature and skating rink at the square!

See announcement for the funding in this thread:
http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?p=4305629#post4305629

I started a thread for stimulus spending in Waterloo Region, because I think we will be seeing more of it come up soon as applications become approved.

I also noticed that some of the cement ridges in the square are already covered in wax from skateboarders, in particular around the "bell" sculpture...it looks terrible.

taylortbb
Jun 15, 2009, 4:44 AM
I also noticed that some of the cement ridges in the square are already covered in wax from skateboarders, in particular around the "bell" sculpture...it looks terrible.

I wonder if the city should just build a skateboard park. The town where my cottage is managed to build a small one and immediately the skateboarders left everywhere else. A small one in Waterloo park might be a good idea.

WatDot
Jun 15, 2009, 1:38 PM
There's a skate park in Kitchener. Won't make a difference. Variety is the joy.

What they should of done is hired a consultant (former skateboarder) for the design faze. Looking at the pictures I can tell you the spacing is too far... specially with the Bell sculpture. Look at those beautiful corners with no obstruction. The handrails also look obstruction free.

Ktown4ever
Jun 16, 2009, 11:00 PM
I don't see how you see that I'm basing Kitchener when I said in the same post that the Uptown Waterloo square is embarrassing? I provided accurate criticism on both squares as well as their benefits, so don't be so quick to point fingers. See the post for what it really is, not what it isn't.

Sorry, did not mean to pick on you specifically. As I said, my frustration is with the overall tendency on this 'site' to bash Kitchener--downtown in particular. But that's just my perception, and perhaps I am overly sensitive to it because I live downtown Kitchener and I love it. I enjoy the wonderful public square we have in front of City Hall, and am not at all offended by the surrounding sites and buildings. From City Hall you can walk straight down Gaukel to the grand new entrance to Victoria Park, and into the park which is an absolute Gem in the middle of our city. I guess you could call me one of the 'questionables' ---but if you met me I guarantee you would not.

So there you are. My little defense of Downtown Kitchener.

Duke-Of-Waterloo
Jun 16, 2009, 11:17 PM
:previous: Ahh, no worries. I see those "neglected" buildings across from Kitchener City Hall as opportunities rather than a problem.

Anyways, I heard there was a news story on CKCO about skateboarders in the Public Square. It's a pretty interesting story, and they even mention that the city may be planning a permanent skate park in Waterloo Park.

Take a look:

http://southwesternontario.ctv.ca/news.php?id=4893

jcollins
Jun 17, 2009, 5:05 PM
Once the tables get installed it should stop the amount of skateboarding, or at least slow it. Right now the wide open space in the square is a dream for skaters. Fill it up with the coke tables (until they are stolen) and people and they won't be able to skate there.

smably
Jun 17, 2009, 5:44 PM
Once the tables get installed it should stop the amount of skateboarding, or at least slow it. Right now the wide open space in the square is a dream for skaters. Fill it up with the coke tables (until they are stolen) and people and they won't be able to skate there.
The Coke tables are already out on the upper patio area (by Scotiabank). Are they also putting tables on the main part of the square?

jcollins
Jun 17, 2009, 6:36 PM
The Coke tables are already out on the upper patio area (by Scotiabank). Are they also putting tables on the main part of the square?

Maybe I misunderstood, I thought they were.

Put anything there, its so empty! Something like a water feature maybe?

smably
Jun 17, 2009, 8:21 PM
I agree, it's way too empty. Unfortunately, the future water feature is to be constructed behind the ramp in the back right corner. I don't know whether people will even notice that it's there.

I really like what's been done in Dundas Square (photo (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Urbeach2004oct07_135u.jpg)).

How about some sort of interactive sculpture? You know, public art that actually engages the public. (I don't mind the bell, but it's not exactly an approachable piece of art.) Even something that people can climb or sit on would be nice, like the Henry Moore piece (http://network.nationalpost.com/np/blogs/toronto/archive/2008/02/08/henry-moore-s-comeback.aspx) outside the AGO.

rapid_business
Jun 17, 2009, 10:03 PM
/\ the water feature is going where you indicated, but the reflecting pool is in the middle of the square.

jcollins
Jun 18, 2009, 4:43 PM
At this point is the water feature and reflecting pool happening as soon as funding arrives? The square has so much potential, but right now it's lacking a bit.

KW4Life
Jun 23, 2009, 1:01 AM
The Coca-Cola cheap seats. :) Better than nothing, but a cheap PVC chair with a sticker on it.

Thug skateborder. :)
http://lh5.ggpht.com/_ELbIcwEiSLU/SkAnaPbMJEI/AAAAAAAAATo/Z-pIf90HTUU/s800/publicsquare2.jpg

Patio:
http://lh4.ggpht.com/_ELbIcwEiSLU/SkAnbMB7XiI/AAAAAAAAATs/3bL4fB4FIk8/s800/publicsquare1.jpg

Duke-Of-Waterloo
Jun 23, 2009, 2:39 PM
:previous:

Seriously? That's all we got from Coca-Cola? Jeez, I could have gotten better plastic chairs for the public square myself from Wal-Mart for $2.97!

rapid_business
Jun 23, 2009, 3:03 PM
I don't know if the seats are 'better then nothing'. I'm actually quite embarrassed at how sh*tty those look as part of the central public square of a city... But the embarassment is rightly deserved. The square, as it is now, is a joke already.

WatDot
Jun 23, 2009, 3:36 PM
hahaha!!! Come on City of Waterloo.... I know they are "donated" and free.... but really. That just looks pathetic.

Any news on the Moxie's rumour? We need someone that is worried about image on this!!!

mark76
Jun 23, 2009, 4:41 PM
just funny and sad at the same time. `nice` plastic chair and skateboard`thug`.

where is sign prohibiting skateboarding??

oh yeah,when comes to parking, city of waterloo just cant wait to give you parking ticket!! maybe they should introduce same thing for skateboarders : 2 hour limit,lol.

PSprogrammer
Jun 23, 2009, 5:29 PM
Hi Everyone.

Time for me to chime in.

I have only been following these posts for a week or so and was mortified to find out that the picture I had used on our website was from you. I was just sent it by a friend and thought it was his.

I am of course happy to credit your photo (it captured the opening of the square very well; none of our overhead shots really did the day any credit)

How would you like to be listed in the credit?

Anyway, just a quick note on some of the ongoing discussions I see on this board:

Furniture - The Coke furniture is just a temporary information gathering opportunity for us. Before we purchase lots of expensive bistro tables and things, we want to see how people use the furniture, do they move it down to the flat area, how much do we need, what size groups do they sit in.... our findings to date tell us that people are pretty happy up on the terrace area, and that no one is particularly interested in sitting down in the lower area as is, they also mainly sit in groups of one or two and that mobility device (wheelchair) accommodation in what ever furniture set up we use is very important.

We have also discovered the wind patterns in the Square don't allow for patio umbrellas very often, so we are going to have to be more creative with shade.

The water feature and ice rink are still intended to go in; yes we are eagerly awaiting word from the federal government about funding for these projects, but we are also continuing to explore other funding opportunities while we wait.

I would like to make it clear that the square isn't "finished". We are gathering information from personal comments and discussion groups like this one to help us guide some of the finishing touches. We are exploring the cost and maintenance needs of some portable planters to add more green, some more safety and preventative maintenance features and other options to make the square all that it can be. You will see the square evolve a lot this summer, and I expect over the next couple of years as well while we work out these growing pains.

I also notice that a lot of you are commenting on the skateboarders in the public square. I have spent a lot of time talking to other staff and the public about our growing relationship with the skateboarders, and our desire to create a SAFE and INCLUSIVE environment for everyone that balances subdued activities with spontaneous or more exciting ones. This issue was addressed at council last night, so you will see lots of information coming out of my office and our corporate communications department very very soon. I won’t burden you by making this post any longer than it is to cover the whole skateboarder situation further.

I am glad so many of you have great things to say, and that much of your criticisms of the Square are constructive and inspire me to look in new directions. I hope to continue following this group closely, but the summer is a hectic season in the life of a Public Square Program Coordinator, and I may not be able to catch up every single week.

Feel free to contact me directly if you have any brilliant ideas or concerns you want to talk about off line. My full contact details are available on the city of waterloo website, just scroll on the main page to click on the Public Square, and you will find me.

Cambridgite
Jun 23, 2009, 6:08 PM
I don't know if the seats are 'better then nothing'. I'm actually quite embarrassed at how sh*tty those look as part of the central public square of a city... But the embarassment is rightly deserved. The square, as it is now, is a joke already.

Oh, but come on. Who doesn't like a big concrete pad of nothingness and insulting art?

smably
Jun 23, 2009, 6:13 PM
Regarding the skateboarding issue, there was a news release (http://city.waterloo.on.ca/DesktopDefault.aspx?tabid=78&mid=526&def=News%20Article%20View&ItemId=1074) posted on the city's web site yesterday:

Waterloo city council approves pilot action plan to address concerns over skateboarding in the Waterloo Public Square

(Waterloo – June 22, 2009) In response to residents’ concerns about skateboarding in the Waterloo Public Square, city council has voted in favour of a pilot action plan to make the gathering place accessible to everyone.

This plan includes designating a small area of the square “skateboard friendly,” and installing temporary fixtures there that could be used by a small number of skaters at a time. This would keep the skateboarders in a defined space and, at the same time, reduce the wear on the rest of the square.

As well, a temporary skateboard mentor program would be implemented during peak times to monitor the activity in the square, encourage safe use, ensure users are adhering to the facility’s guidelines and engage participants. It also includes posting appropriate signage, communicating with the broader community and educating the public about skateboarding.

"Council has heard from a number of concerned residents. In reviewing those concerns, I believe the course of action we have chosen tonight will help ensure that the Waterloo Public Square evolves into a safe gathering place for residents of and visitors to Waterloo,” said Mayor Brenda Halloran. “I look forward to hearing about the impact these actions can have.”

The action plan will be implemented on a pilot basis. Staff will monitor activity and will report back to Council on July 13.

As well, the city previously has allocated some funding to build a skateboard park in Waterloo. Skateboarding is an acknowledged legitimate sport that continues to grow quickly, and a long term component of the action plan encourages getting local skateboarders on board to help with the design and development of this facility, which is expected to be complete in 2010.

The skate park would probably be located near the north end of Waterloo Park, adjacent to the rail corridor. On the latest Waterloo Park master plan newsletter (http://www.city.waterloo.on.ca/Portals/57ad7180-c5e7-49f5-b282-c6475cdb7ee7/PWS_PARKS_documents/Newsletter-Volume_3.pdf), it's shown as suggested use #2 in the youth play area (see the top half of page 4).

This seems like a pretty good solution to me.

rapid_business
Jun 23, 2009, 8:03 PM
This plan includes designating a small area of the square “skateboard friendly,” and installing temporary fixtures there that could be used by a small number of skaters at a time. This would keep the skateboarders in a defined space and, at the same time, reduce the wear on the rest of the square.”
You are not going to keep skaters from using what is an ideal place for street skating. The ledges, the stairs, etc. are all perfect for this. (Coming from a background of skateboarding when I was younger). Throwing up a couple crappy rails and a quarter pipe won’t solve any problem, it will bring more people to skate there, in conjunction with those already using the square’s hardscape features. You’d almost think the design of the square was by a guy who use to skate…

As well, a temporary skateboard mentor program would be implemented during peak times to monitor the activity in the square, encourage safe use, ensure users are adhering to the facility’s guidelines and engage participants. It also includes posting appropriate signage, communicating with the broader community and educating the public about skateboarding.
Which is a nice way to say ‘security guard’.

As well, the city previously has allocated some funding to build a skateboard park in Waterloo. Skateboarding is an acknowledged legitimate sport that continues to grow quickly, and a long term component of the action plan encourages getting local skateboarders on board to help with the design and development of this facility, which is expected to be complete in 2010.
A good idea, but it still won’t stop skaters from using the area. The lure of a good street skating spot is too big.

Duke-Of-Waterloo
Jun 23, 2009, 11:54 PM
Great to see you have joined the forum PSprogrammer! We are glad to have you on here. :)

For my picture, I am totally fine with you adding something like "from SkyscraperPage.com Forum - Waterloo Region" beside it. I admit, putting something like "from Duke-of-Waterloo" on the City's website might not look that professional and be a bit confusing. You can even use my "before and after" pictures too, to give an idea of how the space transformed.

Also (maybe you can help us with this one), after the Uptown Waterloo Country Festival was held this past weekend, I'm surprised they decided to still hold it in one of the Regina Street parking lots! We have this great new square Uptown, and one of its purposes is to be a meeting place for events like this. I'm still scratching my head over this one... I hope they place one of the stages for the Uptown Waterloo Jazz Festival next month in the square, as well as one where it usually is held in the City Hall parking lot. This would get more people attending the festival walking around and exploring Uptown and utilizing the square for a MAJOR annual event in Waterloo that visitors from all over Ontario come to. I'm sure the Uptown BIA would appreciate this, as there isn't much activity over on Regina Street compared to King Street and the Uptown stores would get a lot of business.

KW4Life
Jun 24, 2009, 7:23 PM
Seriously? That's all we got from Coca-Cola? Jeez, I could have gotten better plastic chairs for the public square myself from Wal-Mart for $2.97!

Yes, but that is a $12 umbrella and there are two of them. :)

razzie13
Jun 30, 2009, 8:54 PM
Just went by the square on foot and there are now plastic chairs (not a table to be seen tho) almost everywhere in the lower terrace of the square, with rails for skaters in the "designated skating area", complete with the "mentor" watching them. If they wanted to discourage skating by the Willis Way end of the square, they seem to have accomplished it, at least during the day.

smably
Jul 9, 2009, 7:30 PM
Sad news about stimulus funding for the public square improvements:
One project that didn’t get the green light was the city’s $891,000 request for funds to construct a skating rink and water feature in the new public square. Halloran said the project was seen as an “extra,” not a necessity like the projects that did receive funding.
Source:
http://www.waterloochronicle.ca/news/article/181080

FBM
Jul 9, 2009, 7:45 PM
You are not going to keep skaters from using what is an ideal place for street skating. The ledges, the stairs, etc. are all perfect for this. (Coming from a background of skateboarding when I was younger). Throwing up a couple crappy rails and a quarter pipe won’t solve any problem, it will bring more people to skate there, in conjunction with those already using the square’s hardscape features. You’d almost think the design of the square was by a guy who use to skate…


Which is a nice way to say ‘security guard’.


A good idea, but it still won’t stop skaters from using the area. The lure of a good street skating spot is too big.


The "mentors" are actually skateboarders...

so yes in essence they are "security guards" but more or less set an example rather than solely enforce "the rules"

A great point though regarding the fact that "adding" objects that are skateboard friendly will definitely bring more skaters in who eventually migrate past the designated skateboard zone...


The main issue i think is that the skate zone is positioned (as mentioned) in the north section of the square.

The majority of the skateboarding does occurr after 6pm when it cools off and the lights come on (which by the way is the only lit up spot in both Kitchener and Waterloo, the skatepark in Kitchener isnt lit either)

and the busiest place in the area (not in the aquare) after 6pm on most evenings is the patio for the rude native.... located approx 30 feet from the newly installed rails.

The reality is that after 6-8pm the square is empty and not being used anyway so it would actually make sense to have skaters migrate away from the designated skate zone and move into the southern end of the square.


There has been many attemps/conversations/emails/phone calls in order to make the sqaure accessible after say 8pm to skateboarders.

This would eliminate a good portion of the issues due to the heavy pedestrian traffic between the hours of 4-6pm.


A perfect example of how a city works with skateboarders to accommodate both community events/skateboarders would be Victoria Park in London ONtario.

It is world famous for skateboarders, and you would never know it is a skatepark.

here is a link to show the "park"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:LondonOntarioBandShell.jpg

additionally, if you are all wondering why there is such a draw for skateboarders to the square here are a few links to some of the new wave plaza skateboard parks...

the similarities are uncanny

http://media.skateboard.com.au/forum/images/stoke-ontrent-plaza.jpg

http://www.sketchyskateboarding.co.uk/Library/images/4sitestoke-plaza1.jpg

http://locallygrownnorthfield.org/wp-content/uploads/wlw/Wheresthebestplacefortheskateplaza_6890/amesoverview.jpg

http://www.skateboard-revolution.com/MEDIA/stories/skateboard_964.JPG



and just FYI,, skateboarders are actually pushing to have items installed into the plaza that can serve as

permanent benches (similar to Vitoria Park london)
Shade (perhaps trees in permanent planter boxes that can serve both as benches and seating)

Grass gaps (greenery etc)

basically items that will increase the aesthetics of the square and serve both for the people and for skateboarders...

of course budgets always play a major role,,,,

and to my understaindg at one of the meetings it was stated that skateboarders "dont deserve" a park.....

Duke-Of-Waterloo
Jul 10, 2009, 3:03 PM
Interesting article from The Record. I was in the square yesterday around noon, and it was the first time I didn't see any skateboarders at all.

Waterloo residents are asking . . . Is it worth it?
Complaints roll in about the city's new public square, but there are supporters who think people just need time to get used to it

Friday, July 10, 2009
By Liz Monteiro
THE RECORD

WATERLOO

It needs more trees, more green space. How about some shade and less concrete?

Six weeks after Waterloo's public square officially opened, local residents aren't shy about how they feel when it comes to the $2.6-million square on King Street at Willis Way.

Many residents have complained to the city and councillors, with one resident referring to skateboarders as "cockroaches,'' said David Smith, general manager of recreation and leisure.

Of course, there are supporters who like the space.

Peter Gravel, who works for a Kitchener insurance company, came out to the square on his lunch break for the first time yesterday.

He brought his 18-year-old son's six-string acoustic guitar to try out the free noon-hour guitar lessons.

And even though the instructor was nowhere to be found 15 minutes into the lesson, Gravel wasn't deterred.

"I drive by here every day when I go to work. I love the concept. I love that it's open with an open-air walking plaza,'' he said.

Gravel, like others who were out enjoying the sunshine yesterday, said the square is new and the community needs to give it a chance.

So what about the artistic bell created by sculptor Royden Rabinowtich? Earlier this week, vandals drew on the bell.

"Oh, you mean the rust bucket. I'm curious about it,'' Gravel said.

Yesterday, children at a camp with the Waterloo Community Arts Centre were drawing with chalk on the concrete ground in the square. A couple of boys took a fancy to the bell and drew pictures on it.

Doris Bechtel wonders about the bell, too.

"Well, I don't know. That's a big question mark,'' she said. "It doesn't seem to fit it.''

Bechtel, who walks through the square about three times a week on her way to the grocery store, said she wishes there were bigger trees and more shade in the square.

"I thought it was going to be more green, but I'm willing to give them a chance. It's so new,'' she said.

When it comes to the skateboarders and the controversy the activity has brought to the square, Bechtel said she isn't annoyed by the youth and their boards.

"They are kids and they are busy,'' she said. "Kicking them out isn't fair.''

Jessica Wever, who works at the Matter of Taste coffee shop in the mall, said she often sits on the concrete steps to people-watch and glancing over at the skateboarders.

"I like that they are here. I come out to watch them,'' she said.

Wever said she hopes the skateboarders can remain in the square in their designated spot.

"It's just kids having fun. It's fun in a healthy way."

Jeff Stuart, who often skateboards at the square, said designating an area is a fair compromise.

Stuart said some "reckless" teens have grinded their skateboards on the steps and damaged the concrete "giving a bad rap for everyone.''

The fate of the skateboarders will be decided at a council meeting Monday night.

City staff are recommending that the sanctioned off area for boarders remain in place.

"It still has value,'' said Smith, who is suggesting enforcement be increased to ensure the skateboarders follow the rules.

If the skateboarders don't abide by the rules, they will be asked to leave and won't be able to return, he said.

Smith said the square is a project that will continue to evolve.

At least one councillor, Scott Witmer who has received "a healthy dozen" emails on the issue of skateboarders in the square, said he won't be supporting the staff recommendation.

"I just don't think it's the right location,'' he said.

Witmer agrees that the square is a work in progress. The skating rink should be installed -- "the sooner, the better.''

Last year, council voted to go ahead with the public square without the skating rink and the water wall because there wasn't enough money to fund them.

TripleQ
Jul 19, 2009, 11:53 PM
Nice time lapse video of the public square. I'm not sure how to embed videos here (or if it's possible?) so you'll need to click. There's another one in his other videos too from a different angle.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zQyVH5mnpPo

(via Karen Scian's blog (http://kscian.wordpress.com/2009/07/19/time-lapse-view-of-the-waterloo-public-square/))

Duke-Of-Waterloo
Jul 20, 2009, 1:25 AM
Here you go!

zQyVH5mnpPo

FBM
Jul 22, 2009, 9:01 PM
what is this video trying to prove?

TripleQ
Jul 23, 2009, 1:47 PM
I don't think it's trying to prove anything.. it's just a cool video (I think it's very well lit for the time of day).

mark76
Jul 27, 2009, 11:33 PM
Fundraising starts to build a skating rink in Waterloo Square

By Kevin Swayze, Record staff
WATERLOO – If Jim Playford has his way, skaters will replace skateboarders in the Waterloo Square this winter.

The Waterloo chartered accountant and three friends have started a fundraising effort to find the estimated $300,000 needed to complete the rink in the $2.6 million public space along King Street.

The city has started running some community programs in the “rather sterile” concrete area, but Playford wants to give people more to do.

“That big concrete space is pretty vast . . . the rink will change that for five months of the year.”

Playford coached at Waterloo Minor Hockey with Paul Rossi, Rick Dubeau and David Martin.

They’re teaming up again to raise community excitement over the rink project. They’ll make their PowerPoint pitch at public meetings the next two Wednesdays in the Hauser Room at the Waterloo Recreation Complex on Father David Bauer Drive. Both meetings start at 7 p.m.

Playford is “hopeful” his group can raise the $300,000 by fall, so the ice can go in this winter.

When the rink was originally designed, plans included all the parts needed to operate a winter rink and a summer waterfall in front of the Shoppers Drug Mart overlooking the square. Neither made the final cut because of budget limitations, said Coun. Ian McLean.

The city did, however, spend some $300,000 to install the needed coolant pipes under the concrete, instead of having to rip up the concrete and install them later.

McLean has met with Playford and is also hopeful the rink boosters can raise the money needed — or pledges for the money. Even if the group doesn’t find all the money, their effort should prod council to chip in money to make the rink a reality, he said.

“If these community partners step to the plate, that will create the momentum for council to do this,” McLean said.

“There’s no guarantee of the ice rink going forward if a group like this doesn’t step forward . . . It’s more ammunition to give to council . . . to do this.”

The skating rink in the Waterloo Square won’t look like the one in front of Kitchener City Hall, said Barb McGee Taylor, the city landscape architect who designed it.

“There’s someone confusion . . . people think there’s going to be the rink in the winter and the fountain there in the summer like in Kitchener,” she said.

In Waterloo, the fountain and rink are two separate entities. Observant visitors to the Waterloo Square today can see the outline of the 19-metre by 31-metre rink. It’s where the open space where skateboarders play in summertime.

City staff will report to the Aug. 24 council meeting with options to proceed with the rink.

The $300,000 needed to finish the rink is an estimate, McGee Turner said. Tenders will have to be called for the custom-made trailer that will carry the refrigeration equipment and hoses to plug into the existing plumbing. Staff also must sort out the height of the temporary boards needed contain the water and define the skating area

kswayze@therecord.com

jcollins
Jul 28, 2009, 1:06 AM
So Im a little confused. What would be in the square in the summer? Im having a hard time visualizing it all.

Bauer_buyer
Jul 28, 2009, 3:11 AM
If the city had done it right they would have had a reflecting pool and fountain(s) in the middle where it is supposed to be and not some
"water wall" off in the corner somewhere...like what the h___

They keep saying it is evolving and I keep saying it cannot evolve into what the people want because the people want grass, trees, fountains and last but not least ...a pool similar to Kitchener's.

What was wrong in constructing something similar.In fact it could have had all that kitchener has and maybe more. But the city screwed up; they didn't want to copy kitchener because of the petty rivalry that goes on behind closed doors.

The elevated areas, the steps, the seating are uniquely different and along with a permanent reflecting pool and fountain it would have been perfect if not superior.

The damage has been done...nothing will change because if it did it would reflect on the incompetence of this mayor and council.
She should go back to Kitchener...where was the leadership?

taylortbb
Jul 28, 2009, 6:21 AM
I actually don't think a reflecting pool would be a good use of the space. Reflecting pools are by their nature very permanent, you can't easily move them out of the way to have events. Now fountains like they have in Yonge-Dundas square I think would be excellent, they're interactive (you see kids running through them) and they can easily be shut off when events are happening in the square.

The main problem is the lack of things going on in the square. So far all the festivals have been in the city centre parking lot, not in the square. I know that for the jazz festival you can't fit 4000 people in the square, but that's a different issue. The square should have been bigger and they shouldn't be afraid to shutdown King/Willis Way for more space, the businesses would be packed from all the people in the square for a major concert.

They also need more permanent fixtures in the square. I like the idea of removing the spur line (I support rail in general, it's just a really bad place for a rail line) and extending the square over to the Rude Native and having their patio spill out into the square. You could also encourage street food vendors (not hot dog stands, something interesting) to move in to semi-permanent tents (not built structure, but something that would stay there day to day) on the edges of a square. I think street food has to be one of the most interesting things about a city, I love all the truck vendors on the U of T campus.

You also need to make the square a destination. They tried to make the Uptown parkade look nice, but let's face it, it's a parking garage. I'd cover it in big LCD screens and neon signs, go for a times square type of place. Eventually add media towers on top of the mall and adjacent buildings. Of course I expect this to be a very controversial thing to say, many people feel that Uptown should have a small-town feel. I disagree completely on the small town feel, right now with the most successful downtown in the region the City of Waterloo has the opportunity to become the downtown core for a city of over half a million people. Let's not try and be a small town, we're becoming a big city. I also say this because downtown Kitchener is on the way up, especially because of LRT, Waterloo shouldn't let Uptown be left out. We can be an integrated downtown for an amalgamated region (sooner or later it's going to happen).

dunkalunk
Jul 28, 2009, 12:07 PM
Personally, i would love to see the front of the parkade modified to include ground level retail and apartment units as a means to densify the area in front of the square. I really don't think uptown would be able to pull of an LCD screen, but the the general idea of making uptown a denser place is a necessary goal.

diegaxo
Jul 28, 2009, 1:47 PM
I actually don't think a reflecting pool would be a good use of the space. Reflecting pools are by their nature very permanent, you can't easily move them out of the way to have events. Now fountains like they have in Yonge-Dundas square I think would be excellent, they're interactive (you see kids running through them) and they can easily be shut off when events are happening in the square.

The main problem is the lack of things going on in the square. So far all the festivals have been in the city centre parking lot, not in the square. I know that for the jazz festival you can't fit 4000 people in the square, but that's a different issue. The square should have been bigger and they shouldn't be afraid to shutdown King/Willis Way for more space, the businesses would be packed from all the people in the square for a major concert.

They also need more permanent fixtures in the square. I like the idea of removing the spur line (I support rail in general, it's just a really bad place for a rail line) and extending the square over to the Rude Native and having their patio spill out into the square. You could also encourage street food vendors (not hot dog stands, something interesting) to move in to semi-permanent tents (not built structure, but something that would stay there day to day) on the edges of a square. I think street food has to be one of the most interesting things about a city, I love all the truck vendors on the U of T campus.

You also need to make the square a destination. They tried to make the Uptown parkade look nice, but let's face it, it's a parking garage. I'd cover it in big LCD screens and neon signs, go for a times square type of place. Eventually add media towers on top of the mall and adjacent buildings. Of course I expect this to be a very controversial thing to say, many people feel that Uptown should have a small-town feel. I disagree completely on the small town feel, right now with the most successful downtown in the region the City of Waterloo has the opportunity to become the downtown core for a city of over half a million people. Let's not try and be a small town, we're becoming a big city. I also say this because downtown Kitchener is on the way up, especially because of LRT, Waterloo shouldn't let Uptown be left out. We can be an integrated downtown for an amalgamated region (sooner or later it's going to happen).

I totally agree with the intensified downtown, it is just what Waterloo needs. And if I remember correctly, isn't the LRT supposed to use the spur line next to the Town Square? I know it will have a different rail, but I believe it will be parallel to the existing one.

mpd618
Jul 28, 2009, 2:53 PM
And if I remember correctly, isn't the LRT supposed to use the spur line next to the Town Square? I know it will have a different rail, but I believe it will be parallel to the existing one.

No, the LRT is to have one track along Allen and Caroline, and the other along King and Erb. It would join the spur line at Erb and Caroline.

bauer123
Jul 28, 2009, 3:02 PM
I heard the Scotia Bank rumor again but now I am hearing it may go in the vacent spot beside Starbucks.

With Moxeys going in with a patio incorporated into the square. Which would be nice for the square with Rude Native just off to the right.

Cambridgite
Jul 29, 2009, 2:02 AM
I heard the Scotia Bank rumor again but now I am hearing it may go in the vacent spot beside Starbucks.

With Moxeys going in with a patio incorporated into the square. Which would be nice for the square with Rude Native just off to the right.

Have any links for this? Sounds like a positive development. I think a Moxeys would do very well there.

I actually don't think a reflecting pool would be a good use of the space. Reflecting pools are by their nature very permanent, you can't easily move them out of the way to have events. Now fountains like they have in Yonge-Dundas square I think would be excellent, they're interactive (you see kids running through them) and they can easily be shut off when events are happening in the square.

I don't think this is something we need to emulate. I would not say that the water fountains are a strength in Yonge-Dundas square. Something like a circular fountain with edges to sit on would be an improvement, along with benches on the more peripheral areas of the square, and large trees around the whole thing.

You also need to make the square a destination. They tried to make the Uptown parkade look nice, but let's face it, it's a parking garage. I'd cover it in big LCD screens and neon signs, go for a times square type of place. Eventually add media towers on top of the mall and adjacent buildings. Of course I expect this to be a very controversial thing to say, many people feel that Uptown should have a small-town feel. I disagree completely on the small town feel, right now with the most successful downtown in the region the City of Waterloo has the opportunity to become the downtown core for a city of over half a million people.

If we're going to have LCD screens or obnoxious Toronto-style ads anywhere, the WTS mall and uptown parkade would definitely be the most appropriate places. However, I don't think we should go overkill on this concept. Toronto has wayyyy too many ads in its downtown and it gets to the point of looking like an overcommercialized concrete jungle with no intimacy. I'm not saying we shouldn't intensify and bring more action downtown/uptown, because we definitely should. But the strength in uptown Waterloo vs. downtown Kitchener, in terms of its public realm, is that uptown is green and calm, while downtown Kitchener emulates the concrete jungle feel of Yonge street (though a lot less intense and vibrant) where you are baked in reflected heat and can hear everything echo.

Let's not try and be a small town, we're becoming a big city. I also say this because downtown Kitchener is on the way up, especially because of LRT, Waterloo shouldn't let Uptown be left out. We can be an integrated downtown for an amalgamated region (sooner or later it's going to happen).

I think we have a tendency to idolize Toronto too much, in the same way that Toronto tends to idolize New York. Just because a bigger city does something, doesn't always mean it is good and that we should emulate it completely. We should look at what works well and apply it to our own situation accordlingly. Learn from the mistakes of these cities as well. Big flashy ads ALL OVER the downtown is not a strong point in terms of creating a city with character. The region is growing, our downtowns must grow with it, but we should do it in a way that is classy and not necessarily just a copycat of a nearby large city.

taylortbb
Jul 29, 2009, 2:31 AM
I don't think this is something we need to emulate. I would not say that the water fountains are a strength in Yonge-Dundas square. Something like a circular fountain with edges to sit on would be an improvement, along with benches on the more peripheral areas of the square, and large trees around the whole thing.

I think the problem is that my idea of a good square is that it can be completely cleared for events. Otherwise you start having events in parking lots, surface parking lots, the enemy of intensified development.

If we're going to have LCD screens or obnoxious Toronto-style ads anywhere, the WTS mall and uptown parkade would definitely be the most appropriate places. However, I don't think we should go overkill on this concept. Toronto has wayyyy too many ads in its downtown and it gets to the point of looking like an overcommercialized concrete jungle with no intimacy. I'm not saying we shouldn't intensify and bring more action downtown/uptown, because we definitely should. But the strength in uptown Waterloo vs. downtown Kitchener, in terms of its public realm, is that uptown is green and calm, while downtown Kitchener emulates the concrete jungle feel of Yonge street (though a lot less intense and vibrant) where you are baked in reflected heat and can hear everything echo.

I think it has its place. Obviously if all of downtown Toronto felt like Yonge-Dundas square I'd agree with you, but really it's just a small part. I think in places that are supposed to be major gathering places that commercialization is quite appropriate.

I think we have a tendency to idolize Toronto too much, in the same way that Toronto tends to idolize New York. Just because a bigger city does something, doesn't always mean it is good and that we should emulate it completely. We should look at what works well and apply it to our own situation accordlingly. Learn from the mistakes of these cities as well. Big flashy ads ALL OVER the downtown is not a strong point in terms of creating a city with character. The region is growing, our downtowns must grow with it, but we should do it in a way that is classy and not necessarily just a copycat of a nearby large city.

I agree completely. I think in many ways we would be better off looking to the European cities. The Grand Place in Brussels is a prime example of an amazing square. The problem is that I don't think we can achieve a European city here. When they removed the front WTS parking lot business dropped 80% in many of the stores. There's a parking lot right along side, and one across from Willis Way. I you have to be a lazy *** to not visit a store because you have to park across the street (obviously some people can't physically, but 95% of the people that parked in that lot could). Given this I see the model of the North American city as what we can realistically do. People that want Europe live in Quebec City or maybe Ottawa, cities that would be much harder for us to emulate. And as far as North American cities go, I think New York and Toronto are not bad examples. They both have vibrant, urban downtown cores. And Toronto is a very safe city despite its size, there's no reason to not raise kids in downtown Toronto.

mpd618
Jul 29, 2009, 2:36 PM
I think we have a tendency to idolize Toronto too much, in the same way that Toronto tends to idolize New York. Just because a bigger city does something, doesn't always mean it is good and that we should emulate it completely. We should look at what works well and apply it to our own situation accordlingly. Learn from the mistakes of these cities as well. Big flashy ads ALL OVER the downtown is not a strong point in terms of creating a city with character. The region is growing, our downtowns must grow with it, but we should do it in a way that is classy and not necessarily just a copycat of a nearby large city.

Agreed. I'll also add that Waterloo will never be a big city, period. (There's simply not enough time for it to do so before the world population levels off and growth stops being taken for granted.) What Waterloo hopefully will become is an intensified small city adjoining an intensified Kitchener and rural lands. The only reason to look to examples elsewhere is if they actually make sense in the context here.

KW4Life
Jul 29, 2009, 3:00 PM
I'll also add that Waterloo will never be a big city, period.

Never is a long time. What was the population here 200 years ago? Seven?

Forty years ago Westmount Golf club was out of town.
When The Aud was built it was controversial because it was so far away from downtown.
The regions population is conservatively projected to increase by 50% in the next twenty-five years to ~750,000 people.

There is reason to believe the cities of Kitchener and Waterloo combined will be a million people within 50-70 years, but certainly within a hundred years.

We may not be around for it, but our children and grandchildren could be living in a big city if they stay here.

taylortbb
Jul 29, 2009, 4:06 PM
Agreed. I'll also add that Waterloo will never be a big city, period. (There's simply not enough time for it to do so before the world population levels off and growth stops being taken for granted.) What Waterloo hopefully will become is an intensified small city adjoining an intensified Kitchener and rural lands. The only reason to look to examples elsewhere is if they actually make sense in the context here.

But you're looking just at the City of Waterloo. I think the only thing to makes sense is to talk about Waterloo Region. It is already near impossible to tell when you go between Kitchener and Waterloo, the same is becoming true for Kitchener and Cambridge. The countryside line defines one continuous urban area.

The small city next to a large city is Guelph, their commuting patterns are increasingly making them a suburb of Waterloo Region. They're not quite one yet, but it's getting there. They're already considered a part of the "Waterloo Area". Once the highway 7 freeway is built, and longer term if we build an integrated LRT system (Guelph is studying it) then they'll definitely become a part of the city.

@KW4Life
If the current 1.8% annual growth holds we're looking at over 1.2 million people in 50 years. And that doesn't count Guelph despite what I was talking about above.

How realistic is it to hold that growth rate, I'm not sure. In the short term I expect we'll exceed it. Wherever the GO train goes people start to move in, I expect we'll have a massive influx of people once GO trains are here. Also as the LRT is built and Uptown/downtown intensify we're going to offer something to commuters that you can't find anywhere else on the GO train network, vibrant urban life at an affordable price (this excludes downtown Toronto).

WatDot
Jul 29, 2009, 4:52 PM
Waterloo Region (Kitchener-Waterloo CMA) will surely become one of Canada's larger cities. I expect next Census we will be #10 in Canada, bumping London to #11. Our growth has been much greater and we were only 6,500 off last Census.

I don't see it ever becoming larger than Toronto, Montreal or Vancouver though. In fact it will be a task to take Hamilton over for #9 spot.

taylortbb
Jul 29, 2009, 5:10 PM
The unofficial updates already have us ahead of London, I think that's a given for the next census.

I think to beat Hamilton we need to either have Guelph added to our CMA (reasonably likely in the next decade) or to have Hamilton absorbed into the Toronto CMA (not sure how likely this is). Hamilton isn't geographically close to Toronto, but I believe the CMA is based on commuting patterns. And Hamilton has a very substantial base of people that commute to Toronto. Look at all the GO service they have, and highways.

I should note that the region estimates the GWCA (Greater Waterloo Catchment Area) at 750,000 people. This number applies to things like the airport, where for those 750,000 people we have the closest international airport.

Obviously we're not going to pass Toronto, Montreal or Vancouver any time in the next century. Probably ever, but I don't want to say things so absolute. More than a century out is very difficult to predict.

rapid_business
Jul 29, 2009, 5:25 PM
so back to the square...

Cambridgite
Jul 29, 2009, 5:57 PM
I think to beat Hamilton we need to either have Guelph added to our CMA (reasonably likely in the next decade) or to have Hamilton absorbed into the Toronto CMA (not sure how likely this is). Hamilton isn't geographically close to Toronto, but I believe the CMA is based on commuting patterns. And Hamilton has a very substantial base of people that commute to Toronto. Look at all the GO service they have, and highways.

Guelph was declared its own CMA in the 2006 census. According to the rules of Statistics Canada, CMAs cannot be merged. Hence Oshawa still has its own CMA, despite having far more commuters than either Kitchener, Guelph, OR Hamilton. However, there is an area called the Greater Golden Horseshoe in which all of these places fit into, which more or less centers on the GTA. Also, the % of the workforce of a place that commutes to the CMA needs to be over 50% to be included in that CMA, disqualifying Guelph from ever being included with Kitchener.

mark76
Jul 29, 2009, 8:12 PM
Well if we look at Waterloo Square, without people is just concrete slab, no hard feelings. It really is.

Having Waterloo Square `main` square of Waterloo Region ,I am not buying that ,especially not Cambridge residents.Why do I have to be obligated or anybody else to go to Waterloo?

Square needs people, more musical happenings (and I don’t mean some church choir by that) more `sound` names and bands. There must be something historic to this square to appeal people to come. As I can see, people even if they walk around that area will in the evening migrate to local bars, pubs and restaurants.

Waterloo is small city and will be that way for decades. Having ¾ mil in our region by 2031 is just a prediction, how many people must immigrate to Canada to populate this area?

As for CMA I am not concerned about will we pass London or Hamilton, I am more for quality of life which unfortunately doesn’t exist in this bedroom community.

taylortbb
Jul 29, 2009, 9:50 PM
Well if we look at Waterloo Square, without people is just concrete slab, no hard feelings. It really is.

Having Waterloo Square `main` square of Waterloo Region ,I am not buying that ,especially not Cambridge residents.Why do I have to be obligated or anybody else to go to Waterloo?

You'd never be obligated to go there, but in my opinion I expect the region will end up focused on one dominant downtown. Likely coinciding with LRT or eventual amalgamation. Regardless of my personal opinion of amalgamation (which I'm not going to state here), I feel that it's going to be forced on us by the province. And generally in cities of 750,000 people (looking 20 years out) there are a substantial number of people that live quite a distance from downtown, a simple reality of how much space all those people take up.

Square needs people, more musical happenings (and I don’t mean some church choir by that) more `sound` names and bands. There must be something historic to this square to appeal people to come. As I can see, people even if they walk around that area will in the evening migrate to local bars, pubs and restaurants.

No disagreement here. I think it just takes time before it becomes the place to have events in Waterloo. That's why I don't like how quick people are to criticize the square.

Waterloo is small city and will be that way for decades. Having ¾ mil in our region by 2031 is just a prediction, how many people must immigrate to Canada to populate this area?

When I say medium or large city I'm talking about the region. Take note of my comment about amalgamation. The City of Waterloo may be small, but that's ignoring Kitchener, which we are more than a little bit integrated with. Outside of legal issues I'm not sure the city borders in the region mean much, and looking just at one city isn't really an important view of things.

I'm also pretty sure immigration isn't going to slow down in the next 25 years. Canada will be a definite destination for immigrants, and immigrants settle in the largest cities. Whether we're the tenth or eleventh largest metro is a fine point, we're a major part of Canada.

As for CMA I am not concerned about will we pass London or Hamilton, I am more for quality of life which unfortunately doesn’t exist in this bedroom community.

I agree with you that we don't have the kind of urban life we should have. I think this is a function of our poor co-operation between the cities, too many divides that are purely historical and really shouldn't be significant in this day and age.

I'm pretty sure it's not because we're a bedroom community, because we're not. About 5000 people commute to Toronto from this region. There aren't any other major commuter destinations outside the Waterloo area (Waterloo Region + Guelph), so the total commuter numbers can't be much higher. I've met someone who commutes to Toronto from Manitoba every day (by airplane), but I'm pretty sure people like him are exceptions.

mark76
Jul 30, 2009, 12:04 AM
taylor, you cant `force` people to go to certain places.If people dont have any business ,they simply wont go.

For some reason I have feeling that province and region first make problem and after they want to solve it on taxpayers back ,as usual.

For example: why they allowed urban sprawl ? you could intesify in first place.why our downtowns are neglected for so many years and even for decades?
planning here is not the greatest strength.unfortunatelly.

conclusion:when gas was cheap, you think somebody cared about downtown?
I dont think so.it was all about suburbia.

waterloowarrior
Jul 30, 2009, 12:27 AM
I think the square will feel more natural once the WTS Mall is redeveloped and the hotel block is built. Most famous squares are either open and huge or surrounded by 5+ storey buildings. Right now it's not big enough for the open feel but not cozy enough because of the one storey buildings and partly because of the amount of area dedicated for cars (parking lots, drive aisles etc).

taylortbb
Jul 30, 2009, 5:56 AM
taylor, you cant `force` people to go to certain places.If people dont have any business ,they simply wont go.

For some reason I have feeling that province and region first make problem and after they want to solve it on taxpayers back ,as usual.

For example: why they allowed urban sprawl ? you could intesify in first place.why our downtowns are neglected for so many years and even for decades?
planning here is not the greatest strength.unfortunatelly.

conclusion:when gas was cheap, you think somebody cared about downtown?
I dont think so.it was all about suburbia.

I agree with almost everything you said there, so I think this is just communication. I'm expecting a dominant downtown to emerge simply because it will become a destination. You can't force people to go somewhere, I'm just betting on people desiring to visit this new downtown. Waterloo is currently ahead of the game with what is right now the most vibrant downtown, and seems to have the most condo projects scheduled. I believe this trend will continue and result in people that seek out vibrant urban life visiting Uptown, even if they have to come from Cambridge. This is not to say Cambridge's downtowns will never recover, I just don't think they'll match the scale of a merged Uptown/downtown Kitchener.

Which downtown core in the region will be the most vibrant in 20 years is difficult to predict. I think we just have different opinions on what's likely to happen. It's possible Cambridge will have a sudden resurgence and become the dominant downtown, I just think quite unlikely, especially with the current politicians at the helm.

But really I agree with most of what you're saying. I don't think it was intentional they messed up, and I support the use of my tax dollars to revitalize downtown (when spent wisely). But it's very true that no one cared about downtown when gas was cheap. Everyone thought that suburbia was awesome, the cul-de-sac was the greatest achievement in urban planning, and that driving everywhere was great, who would want to walk?! The important thing is that we've learned from past mistakes and are now focused on our downtowns.

DHLawrence
Jul 30, 2009, 12:24 PM
The only way Cambridge will ever become the dominant downtown in the Region is if they convert the Franklin-Conestoga-Hespeler-Industrial area into a downtown resembling a more urbanized Mississauga City Centre and attract dozens of companies and hundreds (or thousands) of residents. In the time it takes for that to happen, Kitchener and Waterloo will done the same thing several times over with their downtown(s).

I don't think we all have to jockey to have the strongest downtown. As long as they are all dominant over the nearest suburban areas, they'll be fine. We're not entirely a hub-and-spoke system when it comes to downtowns; we're more a series of nodes, each distinct in its own way (good or bad).

metropolis
Aug 1, 2009, 3:40 AM
There is a sign up on the old Lucy's patio stating there is a Cora's Breakfast Coming Soon so the rumour about the Scotia relocating to the restaurant site beside Starbucks seems more plausible than the bank moving to where Lucy's was. Lets hope the Moxies isn't far behind.

Duke-Of-Waterloo
Aug 1, 2009, 4:01 PM
There is a sign up on the old Lucy's patio stating there is a Cora's Breakfast Coming Soon

OH NO! This can't be good for Angie's Kitchen. :(

I've been to the Cora's only once in Cambridge and it was terrible.

rapid_business
Aug 1, 2009, 5:48 PM
OH NO! This can't be good for Angie's Kitchen. :(

I've been to the Cora's only once in Cambridge and it was terrible.

Don't hate on one of the smartest and most successful Canadian breakfast chains! Cora's is amazing, and will do nothing but good things for uptown. I'm actually really excited about that news. You need your chains in urban areas to draw people who wouldn't normally come for joe's pancake and hemp shop. They are important in people generating places, and signs of a healthy and growing urban area.

And Cora's food is great to be honest... I think your "angie"-colored-glasses have your tastebuds ignoring truth.....:haha:

Duke-Of-Waterloo
Aug 2, 2009, 2:02 AM
Don't hate on one of the smartest and most successful Canadian breakfast chains! Cora's is amazing, and will do nothing but good things for uptown. I'm actually really excited about that news. You need your chains in urban areas to draw people who wouldn't normally come for joe's pancake and hemp shop. They are important in people generating places, and signs of a healthy and growing urban area.

And Cora's food is great to be honest... I think your "angie"-colored-glasses have your tastebuds ignoring truth.....:haha:

;) Come on Onishenko, as a lifelong resident of Waterloo, I know that Angie's is much more deserving and has more than earned the breakfast/lunch market Uptown. Sure competition is competition and it's an inevitable part of running a business, but I just don't think that Angie's really deserves this. Angie's is a local landmark. This situation is pretty much the same as a Wal-Mart opening on the edge of a small town (knowing that the small town's downtown area will eventually suffer and strugle to compete), but saying that Wal-Mart is a very successful American business and has great deals and can't open soon enough because it indicates that the small town has great future growth potential.

I know the owner of Angie's (simply from going there so much), and remember when Angie herself was alive and used to sit in the restaurant and give customers free butter and maple tarts. Sadly, Angie passed away about 10 years ago, and her daughter has since taken up the business and done a very good job with it. When Cora's opens just a stone throw away from Angie's, I don't think you will see the actual Cora (who has franchised 80+ restaurants across the country) overseeing everything and adding that personal touch to this restaurant. When Angie's gets wind of this, it won't be good. Sure Cora's is a great Canadian success story, but the company should know their limits. I knew that a Cora's coming to Waterloo wouldn't be too far off in the future, and assumed when they did come, they would open in a high-traffic suburban retail strip (the majority of their locations are in these type of locations) such as somewhere near King and Northfield. Funny thing is, about a month ago I took the site plan for the Ira Needles Commercial Centre and placed logos on some of the CRUs for stores/restaurants that I would assume would open there. Cora's was one of them. :P

Uptown has already seen numerous national and multi-national tenants opening up recently. Starbucks is a perfect example, and has really fit in well without harming the other independent coffee shops such as Matter of Taste, the Princess Cinema Cafe, etc. However, the difference here is that the coffee market is much larger than the morning breakfast crowd, and all of the coffee shops Uptown, independent or not, are always busy. So yes, I do agree that franchises/national tenants coming Uptown is good and brings in the suburbanites, but only with certain products/services.

I'll give Cora's another try, but will have to visit either their Kitchener location at Ottawa & Homer Watson or in Cambridge on Hespeler Road!

kwoldtimer
Aug 2, 2009, 2:16 PM
I was not impressed with Cora's when I tried them in Ottawa and Montreal. It is kind of hard to make a bad breakfast, but what I was served was very ordinary. I would certainly not become a regular, but chacun a son gout as they say.

WatDot
Aug 2, 2009, 3:59 PM
There is a sign up on the old Lucy's patio stating there is a Cora's Breakfast Coming Soon so the rumour about the Scotia relocating to the restaurant site beside Starbucks seems more plausible than the bank moving to where Lucy's was. Lets hope the Moxies isn't far behind.

I can see Scotia moving to the large unit between the LCBO and the restuarant unit. I think First Gulf is stuck on making that alley/path location beside Starbucks a bar/restaurant. Wish I had the money to jump in there. It's a great location for that purpose. For a bank... they would need to get rid of the patio set up, change the windows. But who knows, looking at the sq ft of what Scotia Bank has now, they might want/need to take both units.

http://www.waterlootownsquare.com/siteplans.pdf

Fingers still crossed for a Moxie's.

WatDot
Aug 2, 2009, 4:01 PM
I have to echo the majority on here about Cora's. Meh.
Nevertheless, good name to have in the core. Too bad it wasn't Eggspectations.

jcollins
Aug 2, 2009, 10:59 PM
I have to echo the majority on here about Cora's. Meh.
Nevertheless, good name to have in the core. Too bad it wasn't Eggspectations.



Cora's will do really well there, but an Eggspectations would be amazing!!

rapid_business
Aug 4, 2009, 2:12 AM
;) Come on Onishenko, as a lifelong resident of Waterloo, I know that Angie's is much more deserving and has more than earned the breakfast/lunch market Uptown. Sure competition is competition and it's an inevitable part of running a business, but I just don't think that Angie's really deserves this. Angie's is a local landmark. This situation is pretty much the same as a Wal-Mart opening on the edge of a small town (knowing that the small town's downtown area will eventually suffer and strugle to compete), but saying that Wal-Mart is a very successful American business and has great deals and can't open soon enough because it indicates that the small town has great future growth potential.

I know the owner of Angie's (simply from going there so much), and remember when Angie herself was alive and used to sit in the restaurant and give customers free butter and maple tarts. Sadly, Angie passed away about 10 years ago, and her daughter has since taken up the business and done a very good job with it. When Cora's opens just a stone throw away from Angie's, I don't think you will see the actual Cora (who has franchised 80+ restaurants across the country) overseeing everything and adding that personal touch to this restaurant. When Angie's gets wind of this, it won't be good. Sure Cora's is a great Canadian success story, but the company should know their limits. I knew that a Cora's coming to Waterloo wouldn't be too far off in the future, and assumed when they did come, they would open in a high-traffic suburban retail strip (the majority of their locations are in these type of locations) such as somewhere near King and Northfield. Funny thing is, about a month ago I took the site plan for the Ira Needles Commercial Centre and placed logos on some of the CRUs for stores/restaurants that I would assume would open there. Cora's was one of them. :P

Uptown has already seen numerous national and multi-national tenants opening up recently. Starbucks is a perfect example, and has really fit in well without harming the other independent coffee shops such as Matter of Taste, the Princess Cinema Cafe, etc. However, the difference here is that the coffee market is much larger than the morning breakfast crowd, and all of the coffee shops Uptown, independent or not, are always busy. So yes, I do agree that franchises/national tenants coming Uptown is good and brings in the suburbanites, but only with certain products/services.

I'll give Cora's another try, but will have to visit either their Kitchener location at Ottawa & Homer Watson or in Cambridge on Hespeler Road!

I understand your love for this local landmark, but we can't shelter it in protectionism. To do so for some local businesses and not others would be hypocritical. If it is what you say it is, it will continue to have it's local followers who go for the service and history. I understand the importance that plays, so let it stand up for itself. If it can't it has to adapt and beat Cora's at it's own game. They can offer personal service and speed, where Cora's fails.

All I'm saying is more business, and name recognition, is good for Uptown. It gets people there who wouldn't normally visit, and generates business all around.

I welcome competition, and love the local businesses too. But we can't coddle them in a baby blanket if we want Uptown to grown and develop into a progressive urban atmosphere. If you want to play that game, there are a number of small towns who welcome that like-minded view point a stone's throw from Waterloo.

And we all know the Cedar Barn is the best place for breakfast in Waterloo anyways.... :whip:

Elmira Guy
Aug 4, 2009, 2:27 AM
I understand your love for this local landmark, but we can't shelter it in protectionism. To do so for some local businesses and not others would be hypocritical. If it is what you say it is, it will continue to have it's local followers who go for the service and history. I understand the importance that plays, so let it stand up for itself. If it can't it has to adapt and beat Cora's at it's own game. They can offer personal service and speed, where Cora's fails.

All I'm saying is more business, and name recognition, is good for Uptown. It gets people there who wouldn't normally visit, and generates business all around.

I welcome competition, and love the local businesses too. But we can't coddle them in a baby blanket if we want Uptown to grown and develop into a progressive urban atmosphere. If you want to play that game, there are a number of small towns who welcome that like-minded view point a stone's throw from Waterloo.

And we all know the Cedar Barn is the best place for breakfast in Waterloo anyways.... :whip:

I agree entirely!

And while the Cedar Barn is not in Waterloo (city anyway), they do a mean breakfast!!
AND, (hard as it is for me to believe given it's deliciousness) one of the few places I know of where you can get a proper (not Schneider's) summer sausage sandwich. :)

metropolis
Aug 4, 2009, 3:20 AM
I travel for business quite a bit and will often go out of my way for a Cora's. Funny thing is so will the dozen or so other people in my department.

Cora's food is great if you don't want toast, bacon and eggs like you get at any breakfast joint anywhere in North America and thats what Angie's excels at.

Another Angies or Whitespot or Denies wouldn't draw anyone Uptown that doesn't frequent it already. Cora's with their fresh fruit platters on the other hand will. And that can only be good for Uptown.

PSprogrammer
Aug 7, 2009, 3:09 PM
Also (maybe you can help us with this one), after the Uptown Waterloo Country Festival was held this past weekend, I'm surprised they decided to still hold it in one of the Regina Street parking lots! We have this great new square Uptown, and one of its purposes is to be a meeting place for events like this. I'm still scratching my head over this one... I hope they place one of the stages for the Uptown Waterloo Jazz Festival next month in the square, as well as one where it usually is held in the City Hall parking lot. This would get more people attending the festival walking around and exploring Uptown and utilizing the square for a MAJOR annual event in Waterloo that visitors from all over Ontario come to. I'm sure the Uptown BIA would appreciate this, as there isn't much activity over on Regina Street compared to King Street and the Uptown stores would get a lot of business.

Hi Duke (and everyone)
Sorry it has taken me so long to get to your message, my browser wasn't refreshing and I had thought that everyone abandoned this forum after I came aboard... silly really (I deal better with people than computers obviously:)

I will update the photo recognition today!

I was 100% our intention to have a second stage for both the Jazz and UpTown Country festivals in the Square (both festivals are too big to be held completely in the square (we cap out at just over 2000) but we want to grow the festivals to include multiple stages around the UpTown Core.

In these tough economic times, we lost sponsors this year rather than gaining new ones to cover the extra costs, so we thought we would just put a single opening event for each festival in the square this year, and next year go full boar.

PSprogrammer
Aug 7, 2009, 3:27 PM
If the city had done it right they would have had a reflecting pool and fountain(s) in the middle where it is supposed to be and not some
"water wall" off in the corner somewhere...like what the h___

They keep saying it is evolving and I keep saying it cannot evolve into what the people want because the people want grass, trees, fountains and last but not least ...a pool similar to Kitchener's.


We actually talked with Kitchener a lot about their findings regarding their reflecting pool during our design process (well, I wasn't hired yet, but others in the design process did) and through those conversations and the challenges the Kitchener pond poses to large events, we determined very quickly that a pond was not a good feature for the square(plus, if you want a reflecting pond, I encourage you to go to PI... when they are not under construction as I think they have a wonderful place to watch water... or there is always silver lake) we wanted a big open gathering space, with a small interesting water feature (well, we are half way there)

There are lots of places for trees, fountains and ponds around uptown... but none for gathering until now.

I am not just taking a positive lean on the square because I am paid to; I see what the square will be in 2-5 years and know you will all love it.

BTW: I am currently researching hydraulic planting boxes that can be placed around the square and moved out when we want the big open space. I don't know how far I will get with it, but I have a vision and I Like it!

- Yes the plastic furniture has outstayed its welcome. We have the money for new furniture, but are still negotiating the details. Things just take longer when an entire community is watching you.

Ktown4ever
Aug 7, 2009, 6:34 PM
Its easy to criticize the Waterloo square ---but it really is a work in progress. Rome wasn't built in a day.

At the end of the day, it is the presence of people that will make any space great....and to that end, I think the square is already acomplishing that ---and it is only going to get better over time.

jcollins
Aug 7, 2009, 7:30 PM
Its easy to criticize the Waterloo square ---but it really is a work in progress. Rome wasn't built in a day.

At the end of the day, it is the presence of people that will make any space great....and to that end, I think the square is already acomplishing that ---and it is only going to get better over time.

I agree with you. And even since the square first opened, you can see an increase in the number of people that are using it.

rapid_business
Aug 7, 2009, 8:08 PM
/\ I concur. I just think it needs more functional space for the 99.5% of the time that there isn't a festival or something of significance happening in the square.

Duke-Of-Waterloo
Aug 7, 2009, 8:26 PM
At the end of the day, it is the presence of people that will make any space great....and to that end, I think the square is already acomplishing that ---and it is only going to get better over time.

I spent some time in the square last night and was really impressed by what I saw. A family of about five (parents and kids) was having an Uno card tournament, a girl's boyfriend was playing his acoustic guitar for her, an older couple was enjoying their Starbucks treat, and a couple of kids were playing hopscotch. This is what the city envisioned the square to be.

Annnnnd - we have a photo credit on the city's website for the square! :banana: http://www.waterloo.ca/DesktopDefault.aspx?tabid=2373

jcollins
Aug 7, 2009, 9:30 PM
/\ I concur. I just think it needs more functional space for the 99.5% of the time that there isn't a festival or something of significance happening in the square.

Did you have something specific in mind?


I spent some time in the square last night and was really impressed by what I saw. A family of about five (parents and kids) was having an Uno card tournament, a girl's boyfriend was playing his acoustic guitar for her, an older couple was enjoying their Starbucks treat, and a couple of kids were playing hopscotch. This is what the city envisioned the square to be.

Annnnnd - we have a photo credit on the city's website for the square! :banana: http://www.waterloo.ca/DesktopDefault.aspx?tabid=2373


I think I saw those same people!
In the picture that we got credit for, there are a few tents set up. Does anyone remember what these were? Vendors? I could see something like that being a more permanent fixture in some way, shape or form.

jcollins
Aug 22, 2009, 1:45 PM
Extra cash could go toward skating rink in Waterloo square

August 22, 2009
By Liz Monteiro, Record staff

WATERLOO – The City of Waterloo has $227,000 leftover from the construction of the public square and city staff is recommending the money go towards either the skating rink or the waterwall.

The square, which opened in May, was projected to cost $2.6 million. The actual cost is now $2.5 million, said Barb Magee Turner, a city landscape architect who designed the square.

Councillors will decide what to do with the excess cash at a council meeting on Monday.

To complete the waterwall, the cost is $550,000, while the rink is projected to be $426,000.

Although staff isn’t pointing councillors in one direction or the other, the report suggests work on the rink be tendered for construction by the end of this month so that it can be built this fall. An anticipated opening date for the rink would be Dec. 12.

The report also says if money was found or raised for the water feature, it could be tendered for construction next May. It would take 10 months from design to construction to complete.

Last year, council voted to go ahead with the public square without the skating rink and the waterwall because there wasn’t enough money to fund them.

Instead, the two projects were “roughed in” meaning underground work has been completed.

Also in the works is a community fundraising effort by four local residents who are trying to raise $300,000 to install the skating rink at the square located at King Street and Willis Way.

Spokesperson Jim Playford won’t say how much money has been collected.

Coun. Ian McLean said he’s confident in the ability of the four men, whom he has known as his life, to collect money.

“The fact they are coming to table means there is a greater likelihood we will get this done,’’ he said.

Meanwhile, the bell was covered with chalk drawings last week at the Bikeapolooza event in the square. It’s the second time the large artistic bell has been used as a canvas by others.

“I can’t get past one artist drawing on someone else’s artwork,’’ Betty Ann Keller, the city’s manager of cultural development, said Friday.

Keller said she’s only aware of two incidents in which city workers have had to clean the artistic bell. Another time, children with a city camp were drawing on the ground at the square and two boys started drawing on the bell.

lmonteiro@therecord.com

jcollins
Aug 22, 2009, 1:48 PM
If they can get the rink in for the winter then I'm all for doing that over the waterwall. It'll give them more time to get the funding for the waterwall and allow the rink to be used an enjoyed right away.

rapid_business
Aug 24, 2009, 2:54 AM
What is the form of the rink if they weren't (aren't) going for the reflecting pool/rink? Still with the temporary plastic idea that was brought up? But with plumbing roughed it, it doesn't make sense?

taylortbb
Aug 24, 2009, 3:22 AM
I don't think the plan was ever reflecting pool and rink. I believes it's designed so that the all the above ground pieces and be lifted away and stored, and the current concrete tiles put back in place (you can see the outline cut in the tiles).

jcollins
Aug 25, 2009, 1:51 PM
Group set to raise funds for skating rink in public square

August 24, 2009
By Liz Monteiro, Record staff

WATERLOO — A group of four Waterloo residents say they are confident they will raise $350,000 toward a skating rink for the public square.

“We are ready to vigorously fundraise,’’ Paul Rossi told a council meeting Monday night. “It’s an aggressive timetable. We feel we can raise this money.’’

The group will return to council on Sept. 21 to report on their fundraising efforts.

Rossi said the group has not started “mainstream campaigning’’ and last night asked council to match 50 cents for every dollar the group raised to a maximum of $175,000.

“It’s a huge advantage,’’ he said. “Money means a lot more than words.’’

Rossi said people are asking where the washrooms will be located, if benches will be provided and how will companies and corporations who donate funds be recognized.

“We aren’t firm. We need information before we can go out there and start slugging,’’ Rossi said.

Council asked staff to provide the necessary answers for the group, but did not support a move to match funds by 50 per cent.

Rossi said the group will try their best to raise money in the next four weeks, but matching of funds would have helped convince residents to donate.

“We still feel it would have been a significant help if the city was matching the funds,’’ Rossi said in an interview after the meeting.

Rossi wouldn’t say whether the group had oral commitments from potential donors to give money to the square, but repeated that the group was “confident’’ the money would be raised.

Coun. Jan d’Ailly said Sept. 21 is an ambitious timeline and would have preferred that the city match funds raised by the group. The city has $227,000 left over from construction of the square.

“We will spend this money on the square regardless and it would aid the fundraisers,’’ d’Ailly said after the meeting. “I hope we are not setting unrealistic expectations,’’ he said.

Councillors decided to set aside the extra $227,000 and did not designate the money toward the rink or a water wall.

Councillors want to wait to see how much money the community fundraising effort collects before using the excess cash.

The square opened in May and was initially projected to cost $2.6 million. On Monday night, councillors were told that the total cost of the square is now $2.5 million.

The rink is projected to cost $426,000, while the water wall will cost $550,000.

McLean said he isn’t against matching funds raised by the community, but wants to see what the community fundraisers come up with first. He’s concerned about the nearly $1 million the city needs to pay for both square features.

Meanwhile, city staff will be looking to create an extreme sports facility which would include space for skateboarders and BMX bikers.

David Smith, general manager of recreational and leisure services, wouldn’t name potential locations, but the city’s master plan for the Waterloo Park includes a skateboard park.

Smith said that beginning on Tuesday staff will put together a working team made up of city staff and skateboard and bike enthusiasts to talk about potential locations for the extreme sports park.

McLean told staff that skateboarders should get their own park.

lmonteiro@therecord.com