Uptown Waterloo Public Square | Approved

[WaterlooInvestor]

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[rapid_business]

[B]"I really believe 20 years from now we're not going to look back and say 'my God, that should have been a parking lot,' " Harmon said.

Love the quote. What's the status and timeframe on this?

[WaterlooInvestor]

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[WaterlooInvestor]

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[Cambridgite]

Public Square Update: December 2007
The Public Square parking lot closure and construction will start up in approx. March/April 2008 (late winter early spring depending on the weather/frost etc). Construction completion is anticipated for fall of 2008 with Public Square events to be programmed for fall/winter 2008/09.

Delays, delays, delays. :no:

[rapid_business]

but still going to happen. At least there is something to smile about.

[Cambridgite]

but still going to happen. At least there is something to smile about.

:D

[WaterlooInvestor]

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[DC83]

This is a sweet looking Square! I wish all cities devleopped more urban squares/parks.

Question: Are the tracks attached the ones your proposed LRT line will be using? If so, this square will become quite the popular social area!

[Bureaucromancer]

Yes they are, this is the point we can expect pretty much any route to turn off king onto the tracks through U of W. Actually, the required turning radius is marked on the site plan.

[DC83]

Yes they are, this is the point we can expect pretty much any route to turn off king onto the tracks through U of W. Actually, the required turning radius is marked on the site plan.

Oh sweet, thanks! If I look close enough, I can actually see the words by the lines! haha Thanks for pointing that out. Wow... can't wait for your LRT!

[kitchener-lrt]

Oh sweet, thanks! If I look close enough, I can actually see the words by the lines! haha Thanks for pointing that out. Wow... can't wait for your LRT!

You should come up for a visit when the LRT and the square is completed:cheers: .

[jcollins]

What's the timeline on the square being done?

[rapid_business]

finished by september i think.

[DC83]

You should come up for a visit when the LRT and the square is completed:cheers: .

I'd love to!

Hopefully, sooner than later, I'll be able to take Hamilton's LRT to the Hamilton GO Centre, then take the High Speed Electric GO Train to K-dub, then I'll jump on your LRT and visit! Deal? Guess I'll see ya in 2048! hahaha

Serious though, I'm really excited about all these LRT plans... c'mon London & Ottawa, jump on-board ! haha

[kitchener-lrt]

I'd love to!

Hopefully, sooner than later, I'll be able to take Hamilton's LRT to the Hamilton GO Centre, then take the High Speed Electric GO Train to K-dub, then I'll jump on your LRT and visit! Deal? Guess I'll see ya in 2048! hahaha

Serious though, I'm really excited about all these LRT plans... c'mon London & Ottawa, jump on-board ! haha

How does the first Saturday in May, 2048 sound?:haha:
Hopefully, you'll be able to do all of that stuff, but sooner. You can take the Coach Canada up:rolleyes: .

[Waterlooian4Life]

Well it looks like this project has gone to shit. If anyone has been to the City of waterloo's website and read the report to council for mondays meeting regarding the tender of this project you will know what I am talking about.
it would appear that since this project is $1 million over budget that several of the features and luxuries of this project are being cut in order to keep the project on budget. This list includes the following:

- Removal of the ice rink
- replacing granite and tinted concrete with regular concrete
- removal of the water feature
- reducing the quality of hardware, and fixtures
- removal of some of the specialty lighting
- removal of the upper terrace
- removal of the colonnade extention




As usual the city of waterloo is cheaping out on one of the key projects that will make or break the future of uptown. meanwhile they are considering spending 4 million towards a parking garage for a corporate hotel rather then spending money on something that will benifite the whole community.

Quite frankly I am pissed

[Duke-Of-Waterloo]

Well it looks like this project has gone to shit. If anyone has been to the City of waterloo's website and read the report to council for mondays meeting regarding the tender of this project you will know what I am talking about.
it would appear that since this project is $1 million over budget that several of the features and luxuries of this project are being cut in order to keep the project on budget. This list includes the following:

- Removal of the ice rink
- replacing granite and tinted concrete with regular concrete
- removal of the water feature
- reducing the quality of hardware, and fixtures
- removal of some of the specialty lighting
- removal of the upper terrace
- removal of the colonnade extention




As usual the city of waterloo is cheaping out on one of the key projects that will make or break the future of uptown. meanwhile they are considering spending 4 million towards a parking garage for a corporate hotel rather then spending money on something that will benifite the whole community.

Quite frankly I am pissed


All I can say is :hell:...

Actually I lied. I want to tell everyone at City Hall that they will blow the opportunity to do something really special in Uptown should they do this. Maybe they should ask First Gulf to help them out :rolleyes:.

Uptown Waterloo has always upheld a good reputation as being attractive and safe, so why not enhance this, instead of cheaping out and building a shoddy concrete "pad"?? I have always wanted to go skating downtown Kitchener, but no offense or anything, its not the most attractive place to go. I was looking forward to there being an ice rink in Uptown! Now what?

[waterloowarrior]

In the report they note that neither the rink nor water feature could be added later in a cost-effective manner

[Waterlooian4Life]

if any one has their councilors e-mail address i suggest that you start lobbying now you have until monday night

[waterloowarrior]

if any one has their councilors e-mail address i suggest that you start lobbying now you have until monday night

I just did.... very important that the City does it right the first time, especially for such a prominent focal point in the downtown.

[dunkalunk]

Just a quick thought. I know they have the turning radius for LRT right on the plan for the square, however, wouldn't it be a complete waste to pour the concrete and then have to rip it up 2 years later for embedding rails?

[rapid_business]

/\ believe me, it won't be 2 years.

Here is the emails of all the councillors. (http://www.city.waterloo.on.ca/DesktopDefault.aspx?tabid=539) Please take the time and share you displeasure. Use logic, keep a level head, and tell them that any sacrafic will cost Uptown in the end.

We have a chance to built something great here, lets not blow it.

(Perhaps I'll email some other people and UW profs who would care to express their displeasure as well. Please spread the word and do the same)

[waterloowarrior]

my councillor responded back positively :tup:

[dunkalunk]

I technically live in kitchener, by mount hope cemetery. Who would be my closest waterloo councillor?

[rapid_business]

Even if any of you live in Kitch. or Cambridge, give them and email and tell them (and the mayor) what you think. Every little bit helps.

[Tibor420]

i swear this *(%$#$% region is gonna give me a stroke if this amount of stupidity from our councillors continues much longer........

[WaterlooInvestor]

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[WaterlooInvestor]

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[WaterlooRegioner]

If the upper terrace and ice rink has been kept, I wouldn't blink an eye. But since they are being removed from the design, I am not so much angry as surprised by it. Do the councillors never walk through downtown Kitchener in the winter? Those features in Kitchener's public square make that area vibrant and family oriented. Considering the state of downtown kitchener, can you imagine how big of a hit something like an ice rink would be right dab in the centre of uptown waterloo? Very surprising that they have overlooked the extra people it would bring downtown in offseason times. Like i said, as for the granite curbs, better hardware, specialty lighting, etc. being removed I could care less. Cosmetic stuff with limited bonuses... I'm sure atleast the ice rink will be brought back after the people provide input on the situation. Then again, I'm also surpised by the removal of the water feature. Such things always bring a lighter and more pleasing mood to any area.

[WaterlooRegioner]

BTW...

So that rail line is being used? If I am thinking clearly, that would mean the LRT would run near the pedestrian bridge and behind the Mongolian Grill plaza for it's University stretch. Good way to conserve money if you ask me, as it is a great direct route and will come in contact with traffic seldom. You said it would likely turn onto King around the public square in question, but on the other end where would it turn off/get onto the new tracks?

[rapid_business]

Here is the email I sent to the mayor and my councilor. Feel free to use it and personalize it a bit.

Councillor XXXX XXXXXX,
I am well aware that City council is set to vote this coming Monday evening on scaling back the Uptown Waterloo Public Square due to budget overrunning to the tune of $1 million dollars. I also know that this would mean the follow:

- Removal of the ice rink
- replacing granite and tinted concrete with regular concrete
- removal of the water feature
- reducing the quality of hardware, and fixtures
- removal of some of the specialty lighting
- removal of the upper terrace
- removal of the colonnade extension

In a transformative and progressively 'intelligent' community such as Waterloo, I believe that scalling back this project is not an 'intelligent choice'. I believe that a drastic measure such as this will harm the quality and potential catalytic nature of the square, reducing it ultimately to a glorified concrete pad with steps. Not only will this be a blow to revitalization of Uptown, but it will set the standard of mediocrity and compromise for future developments and potential investors.

This project is an investment in the future success of Uptown Waterloo. It will speak volumes to what we value as a community, and where the spirit of the city lies. As a local resident and tax payer of Ward 3, a student of urban planning and a believer in the renewed vision and future for the city of Waterloo, I hope your vote will reflect my concern.

Regards,
XXXX XXXXXXXX

[kitchener-lrt]

I like your e-mail. Hopefully, everyone can push others to e-mail Waterloo councillors, so that the councillors can make the right decision.

[WaterlooInvestor]

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[rapid_business]

/\ Nope, as individuals is probably best. I got a similar email from my councillor. However, with my last exam Tuesday I don't think I can make it.

[Duke-Of-Waterloo]

So would anyone else like to speak before council on Monday? ... as a group?


I'm down for it 100%. I was a delegate at the meeting last April where council unanimously approved the public square, and I will do it again. I did it then since I thought there would be a lot of opposition to it. Sign me up.

WaterlooInvestor, PM me and maybe we can set something up.

[dunkalunk]

I'll be at the Centre in the Square performing in a massed choir thing, no can do, although I wish I could attend.

[metropolis]

I just read the minutes and appendices carefully and it seems the water feature will be replaced by a wall of glass tile and a planter below it. This seems like a fair trade to me given both option are simply aesthetic features. Appendix A allows council to reincorporate the water feature back without further fund raising.

It surprises me that the option of bring back the water feature is there over the ice rink. Business slows most in the coldest winter months and the ice rink would bring some of the vibrancy we all want to see in the core whereas the water feature wouldn’t. This option is not tabled in the appendices even though it would cost the city less than bringing the water feature back.

Fund raising to do the project as originally planned would put this whole thing back another year and I am not sure I would want that either. This is all just too bad but not a disaster. Looking at the whole plan again most of the large features (tress, greenery, and patio) are being kept in the proposal.

[WaterlooInvestor]

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[rapid_business]

Or... moving funding from other areas? Delay financing other projects? I mean, as a tax payer, it's something I'd like to see my tax dollars going to pay for. I don't think we need to 'pass the basket' every time our public places projects come up short.

Duke, maybe you'd be interested on saying something on behalf of me? I really need to study for my last exam, but I could PM/email/facebook you a couple words of thought if you'd be interested? Text/email/etc. and let me know.

[WaterlooInvestor]

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[Duke-Of-Waterloo]

Duke, maybe you'd be interested on saying something on behalf of me? I really need to study for my last exam, but I could PM/email/facebook you a couple words of thought if you'd be interested? Text/email/etc. and let me know.

No problem onishenko. Email me with a few brief points you would like me to say. I think unregistered delegates only get 2 minutes to speak, so it doesnt have to be too involved or anything.

Also WaterlooInvestor, I just PM'd you with the 411 on tonight. Sorry about the late response. Let me know what you think.

WE WILL SHOW THEM TONIGHT THAT THEY ARE MAKING A TERRIBLE MISTAKE :whip:

[kitchener-lrt]

I hope this isn't too late Duke, but I'd like you to tell them not to cheap out on a project of this magnitude.

[rapid_business]

Duke and Investor. I sent you an email and PM respectively with my thoughts. If you have time, please read them on my behalf.

Thanks.

[metropolis]

I did not realize they could table things outside of the recommendations.

I'd be joining you guys right now if I didn't have to work :(

Good luck.

[dunkalunk]

How'd it go?

[rapid_business]

I text'd Duke at 9/20. It was still going on then.

[WaterlooInvestor]

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[Duke-Of-Waterloo]

Ok. I just got back, and here is briefly what went down:

Council negotiated for about an hour on the issue. Councilor Ian McLean was the most skeptical, mainly on the fact that the cost ballooned from about 1.1 mil to 3.4. He said he would not buy that this square will be the heart of Uptown, and its what will make the city, and what the city needs, etc. etc. etc. He said there are bigger concerns and things (ie. potholes) to spend money on in the city. McLean looked really stressed, flipping pages in his binder quickly and covering his face with his hands.

The movement tonight to scale back the tendering to Gateman Milloy was not passed (being the removal of the water feature, granite, and coloured cement). This is better than nothing folks!

What did happen, as what usually does with city politics (delays) is that the decision was deferred for another three weeks..

Council is not in favour of spending upwards of 3 mil on this project as its just not in the city's budget right now. So what you probably will see is council spending the 2.5 mil and looking for corporate and private donations to finance the additional $906,000 to bring the cost of the project back up to 3.4 mil and retain all of the features such as the ice rink and water fall. There was a lot of mixed feelings on council, almost split half half. Councilors Maclean and Witmer were against spending that kind of money, while Councilors Vieth, D'Ailly, Wailey and Mayor Halloran were in favour of building a quality space, but being aware of budget constraints. Councilors D'Ailly and Vieth agreed that we shouldn't "cheap out" (Vieth's exact words). There was also some concern on environmental clean-up of the soil beneath the parking lot.

So what can we do? In this time spread the word, email your councilors and the mayor on the importance of this square and fund raising for it. I have a few other things to do tonight, so hopefully me and WaterlooInvestor will bring you more info tomorrow. Watch CTV news (CKCO) at 11:30 as they were there taping the whole thing.

ITS NOT OVER YET!

[rapid_business]

Thanks for the update Duke. Vieth is my councillor, and in my emails to her she sounded just as concerned about it all. Here is hoping we can get this worked out in it's entirety. (Not just half-assed) Were you guys able to speak? Was the Record there?

[waterloowarrior]

Vieth is my councillor as well... I used the words cheap out in my email to her, and I'm happy to see she agrees :)

[Duke-Of-Waterloo]

Vieth is my councillor as well... I used the words cheap out in my email to her, and I'm happy to see she agrees :)

Funny - I just watched it on the news, and thats what CTV quoted Vieth saying. CTV said something along the lines of "some councilors, such as Councilor Vieth were worried and feel the city should not cheap out"...

CTV also quoted other municipal projects in the last few weeks going over budget, such as downtown Kitchener's King Street makeover and Waterloo's new East Side fire station (which was also hotly discussed at tonight's meeting).

Word is getting out. I think there were some Record and Chronicle reporters there too taking notes, so keep your eyes open tomorrow.

[WaterlooInvestor]

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[WaterlooInvestor]

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[kitchener-lrt]

Thanks Duke and WI for the updates. Let's continue the push for a true civic square!
But Coun. Ian McLean said he won’t be pressured into creating a public square with a skating rink and a mechanical wall that the city can not afford. “The heart and soul is the people,’’ he said.

The heart and soul is the people, but the people won't come unless you build a quality square. They're not going to come to see a concrete pad.

[jcollins]

Without the ice rink (and to a lesser extent the water wall) all of the great aspects will have been taken from this project.

Without them, at the cost, how much better would it really be than the parking lot?

Sometimes you just have to spend the money, this is one of those times!

[Duke-Of-Waterloo]

There's a sign up at the site saying the parking lot will close for the construction of the public square on or about April 28/08.

Finally. :cheers:

Those signs have been removed! :koko:

[metropolis]

/\ /\ It makes sense. They have delayed construction until May at the earliest.

[Waterlooian4Life]

Looks like this could still be on the chopping block .....!!!!!! check out monday's meeting minutes/agenda Staff is still recommending that council cut the project down by $900,000!!!

[rapid_business]

I thought that was a given? That said amount needed to be raised from outside sources.... no?

[WaterlooInvestor]

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[DHLawrence]

Waterloo's waterfall will have to wait (http://news.therecord.com/News/Local/article/346337)
Council saves $906,529 by scaling back square

Waterloo's uptown square will open without a rink or waterfall, council decided yesterday.

The city will "rough-in" these features with duct work and wiring when the $2.8-million square is built this year at King Street and Willis Way.

But the actual rink and wall of water -- key features of the design council approved a year ago -- will be added later, when there's money. Councillors hope the city can raise the necessary $650,000 from the community and private sector.

Last month, city staff suggested dropping the rink and waterfall altogether because the budget for the square had risen to $3.4 million.

When the public square was first proposed two years ago, the estimated cost was $1.6 million. A year later, council approved a $1.9 million design, but staff said recently that final costs from suppliers and unsuitable soil on the site had driven up the price again.

Getting rid of the skating rink and waterfall would save $906,529.

"I don't think we should cheap out," Coun. Angela Vieth said yesterday, "It's a great place where people will want to go."

Vieth, who supported the motion for a staged approach to building the square, said she wants a shovel in the ground soon. She's heard from constituents who want a leisurely place to skate.

But first, residents will get a square with coloured concrete, places to sit and planters. It should be completed by the end of the year, said Barb Magee Turner, the city's project manager.

Plans for the square initially provoked anger among merchants concerned with the loss of 66 parking spots in front of Waterloo Town Square.

Cameron Rapp, general manager of development services, said that when the first stage is complete, the public will not be able to see the underground piping for the roughed-in skating rink. This area will look like a concrete slab, just as it will for eight months of the year when ice is not available.

"We are not being short-sighted," Coun. Ian McLean said in support of building the square in stages. "We are not taking away from the public square.''

But in a recorded vote yesterday, councillors Mark Whaley, Karen Scian and Jan d'Ailly disagreed.

Whaley wanted staff to look into a plastic ice rink such as those used in Norway, while d'Ailly wanted the waterwall to be completed this year.

Magee Turner said there aren't any plastic ice rinks in North America.

Those in support of the square with the rough-ins were Mayor Brenda Halloran, Scott Witmer, McLean and Vieth.

"I think it's the best fit,'' Halloran said after the meeting.

Halloran said she anticipates the community will come forward and assist with donations.

"Waterloo is a generous community,'' she said.

Earlier in the meeting, Waterloo resident Andrew Hilliard asked council not to shortchange the project and to keep the rink and waterfall. Hilliard suggested the scaled-back project proposed by staff would be a "second class" square.

Cities with public squares and skating rinks are known for attracting people, Hilliard said, citing Nathan Phillips Square in Toronto and Rockefeller Centre in New York.

John Shortreed said he, too, was concerned with the cutbacks on the project.

"It doesn't have to be built in one day,'' he said. "Don't lock the thing in so it becomes inflexible.''

Rapp said staff do not have a target date for finishing the rink or water wall. "It will depend on the success of the fundraising," he said after the meeting.

[WaterlooInvestor]

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[brian519]

investor, kudos on speaking up :worship:

let me know who to make the cheque out to :)

[jcollins]

Plastic rink for public square?

May 24, 2008
Liz Monteiro
RECORD STAFF

WATERLOO REGION

It looked like real ice, but the rink two Waterloo councillors tested with their skates yesterday was just hard plastic with a glossy coat.

"The experience is different than ice but what's wrong with different?'' said Waterloo Coun. Mark Whaley as he skated on the 10-millimetre thick surface laid out at G & G Skating Centre in Kitchener.

"It's a no-brainer,'' said Coun. Angela Vieth, who said she'd support installing a plastic ice rink in the public square planned for uptown Waterloo.

"It sure wasn't cold when I fell."

Earlier this month, Waterloo council voted to go ahead with the square without an ice rink or waterfall. Instead, they agreed to "rough-in" these features with duct work and wiring when the $2.8-million square is built later this year at King Street and Willis Way.

Councillors decided against a rink and a wall of water for now to save money. They hope the city can raise the needed $650,000 from the community and private sector. A staff report suggested an ice rink would cost nearly $265,000.

But Whaley suggested the city consider plastic and arranged for the test skate yesterday.

Vieth said plastic ice makes sense.

"It's so portable and practical,'' she said.

Tim Harkness of Surface Solutions North America, based in Tampa, Fla., markets, promotes and installs the product. He said the plastic ice is economical for municipalities because there aren't the maintenance costs that come with real ice.

"We could put this in for a couple hundred thousand and there's no monthly charges for maintenance,'' he said.

Harkness said the recycled plastic, which has a five-year guarantee, is flexible, making it easier on the calves and legs.

"It is not ice," he said. "There is an adjustment period for the skater. It's the closest to ice as possible.''

Harkness said a similar rink will be set up in the Air Canada Centre in Toronto to raise public interest.

His company installed the artificial turf at RIM Park in Waterloo.

In Norway, 20 such plastic ice surfaces already exist, but there are none in North America.

Whaley and Vieth say they wouldn't propose plastic for Waterloo until after a thorough analysis of the costs.

"It's never too late to look at it,'' Whaley said.

The 1,600-square-foot plastic rink erected by Elite Athletic Services of Kitchener will be open today for anyone wanting to try out the surface. It's located at 19 Shirk Pl., off Lancaster Street West in Kitchener's Bridgeport neighbourhood.

lmonteiro@therecord.com

[jcollins]

Has anyone ever used "plastic" ice? Ill be honest, Im a little skeptical.

If it works well, we'll be looked at as innovators. If not....well not so much.

I guess in a city full of innovation such as Waterloo, this might make some sense.

[ForestryW]

Yea I've never heard of plastic ice. Seems a bit fishy, I mean what happens if it gets hacked up enough by skates? Does it become less slippery?

[rapid_business]

I've been on in. I was in Czech in '00 and '01, and saw Hasek and a couple other player put on a game in the city square of Chomutov. Oh yah, it was 35 degrees celsius out too.

Looked and felt interesting, but nothing like real ice. It was a novelty, but nothing I'd make the trip to skate on.

[metropolis]

FYI: Parking lot was fenced off and boarded up late last week. Nothing beyond has happened yet.

[metropolis]

Work has begun today. They started tearing up the parking lot in the early afternoon.

[Duke-Of-Waterloo]

This is good news too. I actually came home this weekend, and when I had some free time, one of the first things I did was go Uptown. I saw the barricades and looked behind them and there wasn't even any equipment.

Now is that chain link fence along King Street going to remain uncovered so we can all watch the progress? I wonder why half of the hoarding is wood and the other half is a fence...

[kitchener-lrt]

Work has begun today. They started tearing up the parking lot in the early afternoon.

FINALLY!

[dunkalunk]

It says on the GRT website that they will be moving the bus platform in Uptown Waterloo across from Willis Way until construcion is finished in late November/early December. Hopefully this winter isn't like the one we just had, or else the Uptown square could become another Fairway Road overpass. I sincerely hope that the delay in construction won't effect its completion by December. The square would be a big boost for Uptown in its busiest shopping season.

[brian519]

I sent a note about this to my counsillor (who is Jan d'Ailly) asking about what fundraising has been started and how people can contribute .. i'll post the response here

[brian519]

it's been almost a week and no word .. sent a follow up

[brian519]

I sent a note about this to my counsillor (who is Jan d'Ailly) asking about what fundraising has been started and how people can contribute .. i'll post the response here

Here is the response:

Brian,

I am uncertain about the status of the fund-raising for this parts, but I do know that the Mayor Halloran has been working on this.

David Calder, is responsible for Corporate Services and is our staff person on this project, and by copy to him, ask for an update and how you may be able to participate.

Jan


Haven't heard back from David Calder yet.

[WaterlooInvestor]

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[DHLawrence]

Construction of public square hurting retailers (http://www.waterloochronicle.ca/news/article/139213):



Construction of the city's new public square is hurting business in the Shops of Waterloo Town Square, with some retailers saying sales are down 40 per cent.

Business owners in the square say traffic is dwindling and they have had to cut back on employees and operating hours.

Many have been opposed to the city building the public park in front of the mall for years, and now their worst fears are coming true, said Liz Rogers, owner of Lizzy R Fashions.

Businesses have had huge losses in sales, many between 30 and 40 per cent, Rogers said,

"Mayor (Brenda) Halloran and council have been touting how wonderful this is going to be while in the meantime merchants are suffering big time," she added.

Rogers has been vocal in her opposition of the public square, which is being built on the front parking lot of the mall on King Street.

Construction has now blocked off the front entrance to the mall and the area around the front is boarded up.

In the past, Rogers worried that the loss of parking would lead to decreased business in the uptown core.

And now she's finding it is.

"All these concerns I had two years ago are now coming into play," Rogers said. "Building a park in front of a mall is one of the most ludicrous things I've ever heard."

Before construction, Lizzy R averaged seven to 10 customers at a time in the store. But since work began, the store is lucky to get that in a day, Rogers said.

Because the store is getting so little business, she's had to cut back on her employees' hours.

"If there's no one in the store I don't need people working," she said. "I've been in the mall since 1982 and I've built a terrific business here with terrific clientele. But now I can go hours on end without seeing anyone."

And Lizzy R Fashions isn't the only business being hit.

Darma Activewear, which opened in the mall in November, has seen a difference even in the short time they've been there, said co-owner Barb Moore.

"We're really lucky to have three or four people a day," she said. "We knew construction was coming, but we didn't know how much it would affect us."

Darma has had to cut back its operating hours, closing at 6 p.m. instead of 8 p.m. on Thursday and Friday and closing all day Sunday.

"Now that the (front parking lot) is gone, people don't bother parking anywhere else," Moore said.

Over at Brushwood Boutique, manager Nicole Hancock hasn't been seeing much business either.

"I can say (the construction) has been a blow to us and a lot of other tenants," she said.

Hancock believes that the mall has lost one of its main draws -- close and convenient parking.

"It's a little unfortunate. Things have definitely slowed down quite a bit," she said.

And that slowness is going to last a long time, according to Rogers.

"The construction is moving at a snail's pace. Half the time there's no one (working)," she said.

The city plans to have the construction completed by the end of the year, but Rogers doesn't buy it.

"We hear the mayor and council touting how wonderful this square is going to be once it opens," she said. "But I'm wondering whether the merchants are going to be around that long."


Customers aren't going there because the parking lot's gone and the front door is blocked? What's so hard about parking in the garage and going around to the side entrance to get in?!

[BusyBerliner]

what a terrible shame, driving customers now have to walk all the way accross Willis Way to access these remote retailers :haha:

[Cambridgite]

^I agree with the above comment. Crossing a street isn't the end of the world.

This really shows just how much of a "park-and-shop" mentality exists in this region. We have a long way to go. :no:

[smably]

That's a pretty awful, one-sided article.

Construction has now blocked off the front entrance to the mall and the area around the front is boarded up.
The front entrance is still open. You'd think they would have sent a reporter to actually look at the place before publishing a story on it.

[ForestryW]

^I agree with the above comment. Crossing a street isn't the end of the world.

This really shows just how much of a "park-and-shop" mentality exists in this region. We have a long way to go. :no:

Well I'm from London which is the surface parking capital of Canada if you ask me. At least Kitchener is making progress, building a parking structure, for example. Shmuel Farhi, the philanthropist who owns most of downtown London, is a fan of removing buildings to make cheap surface parking, and since he owns most of the buildings in question there is not much of a fight to be made. I pity London and embrace Waterloo.

[metropolis]

PG: 23 http://www.waterloo.ca/Portals/57ad7180-c5e7-49f5-b282-c6475cdb7ee7/CS_CLERKS_Minutes_2008/20080922_Packet_Council_Meeting.pdf

d) Public Square Update
In response to Councillor Scian, Cam Rapp, General Manager, Development Services,
reported on the progress of the UpTown Public Square, indicating construction is 5 to 6
days off schedule, but underground construction should be completed within the next
few weeks and above-ground construction is anticipated to start in mid-September.

[metropolis]

The city is initiating a Corporate Fundraising program and the Public Square is going to be the focus of the first campaign. Pg 51 of the Oct. 20th Commitee Meeting

http://www.waterloo.ca/Portals/57ad7180-c5e7-49f5-b282-c6475cdb7ee7/CS_CLERKS_Minutes_2008/20081020_Packet_Finance_and_Strategic_Planning_Committee_Planning_Meeting.pdf

[bauer123]

I was in the mall with my gf in the uptown square yesterday and they got a lululemon store opened there for a trial basis. They got it opened till Jan 15th to see if the location is good enough to warrant a permeant store. It's a big land for the mall because that store is pretty big in toronto and vancouver and it would be the first one outside of the GTA. It would attract alot of people to the core. From the amount of people in it yesterday i think it will do just fine

[rapid_business]

/\ So is it 'in' the mall with no outside entrance? Some how I don't think a retailer as popular as Lululemon would choose that as a permanent store location. I know they are there for the holiday season, but if they stay, I'd see them attempting to land space on King or in Conestoga.

[Duke-Of-Waterloo]

I was in the mall with my gf in the uptown square yesterday and they got a lululemon store opened there for a trial basis. They got it opened till Jan 15th to see if the location is good enough to warrant a permeant store. It's a big land for the mall because that store is pretty big in toronto and vancouver and it would be the first one outside of the GTA. It would attract alot of people to the core. From the amount of people in it yesterday i think it will do just fine

Unfortunately if the temporary Lululemon store is successful here at Waterloo Town Square, they will most likely open a permanent location at Conestoga Mall when the new expansion opens next fall, or even Fairview if they can find some room. It's just a safer business decision for them and what they typically do. My good guess is that they probably wanted to open this temporary store at Conestoga Mall for Christmas, but as it sits right now there is no vacancy for a temporary store.

As good as it would be to have such a "destination" and higher profile store Uptown, Conestoga Mall would be a safer decision for them. The majority of their stores are in regional malls anyways, except for a few outlying cases such as Kingston where they have a store in the downtown. From what I have head, Waterloo Town Square failed to attract other mall-based retailers to their new addition a few years ago such as Roots and H&M as it was seen as a risky route to take. Who knows, I could be wrong though...

[bauer123]

True they do have alot of mall locations but maybe they might take one of the vacent spots beside Chaners and the bark and fitz. But i do agree they might take the safer bet and put it in the mall. But maybe all the new condos will attract them to keep it in the core with all the younger demographic around.

[rapid_business]

Yup, exactly my thoughts. And Willis Way with access and visibility to King would be their only real Uptown choice. That would be my ideal location, but it's unlikely.

Although, their first store in Edmonton was on Whyte Ave as opposed to in one of the several malls they now also have stores at in the city as well. But Whyte Ave is way more established then Uptown is as a trendy shopping district, thus, more revenue from their target demographic.

[metropolis]

I am in Waterloo Town Square often for lunch and the store has been packed. If it is attracting people into the mall who would never otherwise set foot there, I'm sure it would do well on King or along Willis Way. The temp location is too small to carry the normal merchandise you would expect to see in a Lululemon so even if they stay Uptown it would not be where they are now. Lulu has many non mall locations and would be as likely to open a store along a busy street as they would be in a mall. (There is one on Bloor in Toronto and one along Queen West).

[Cambridgite]

So what exactly is Lululemon?

[rapid_business]

Yoga-inspired athletic clothing (http://www.lululemon.com/)

Very well made stuff. Pricey, yes. Worth it, I would argue so.

[Tony]

They were in the news recently for making false claims about their products I think. :P

But women buy up their stuff like crazy. (so don't tell your wife)

[kitchener-lrt]

Does anyone have pics of the progress so far? Thanks.

[rapid_business]

They were in the news recently for making false claims about their products I think. :P

But women buy up their stuff like crazy. (so don't tell your wife)

Yeah, it had to do with a registered material (luelon or something) made from some seaweed extract and it's ability to repel sweat?!? I don't know, I read about it in ROB or something a couple months ago. Stock prices took a hit after it came out too.

[Waterlooson]

Regarding Uptown, did you people know that Perimeter Institute has approved a 55,000 sq. ft expansion? It's true, and construction will begin next summer.

[DHLawrence]

Got a source on that?

[waterloowarrior]

pic by urbandreamer at UT (Nov 22)

http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh33/urbandreamer4ever/constructionpixtorontobyurbandreamer4ever/DSC00203.jpg

more here

http://www.urbantoronto.ca/showpost.php?p=221187&postcount=33

[Waterlooson]

Got a source on that?

Since my credibility is beyond reproach, you shouldn't be asking for a source. ;)

At any rate, read the fine print: http://www.perimeterscholars.org/psi-facility.html

[notmyfriends]

I'm curious how an addition can go onto that building. None of the sides seem all that accustomed to adding onto while keeping the original design flow intact.