[SteelTown]

WHOA! Lots and lots of good news for Hamilton yesterday!! Here's a list of APPROVED agendas for the GTTA....

MoveOntario 2020 Foundation Investments Total: $791.3 million

Hamilton A-Line, James-Upper James corridor and Airport connector - $6.9 million

Hamilton B-Line, King-Main corridor - $17.4 million

Hamilton James Street North GO/VIA Station - Gateway to Niagara - $3.0 million

Halton Region Bus Rapid Transit (BRT) - $57.6 million

Bolton GO Transit service improvements - $600,000

Dundas and Hurontario higher-order transit corridor development - $26.5million

Mississauga Transitway Hub: Airport-Renforth Gateway - $39.0 million

York-VIVA Highway 7, Pine Valley Drive to Kennedy Road - $62.0 million

York-VIVA Yonge Street, Richmond Hill Centre to 19th Avenue - $19.0 million

York-VIVA Yonge Street, 19th Avenue to Newmarket - $29.0 million

Toronto-York Yonge subway extension to Richmond Hill (Phase 1) - $423.7 million

Toronto-TTC Transit City Light Rail Transit (LRT) head start - $7.1 million

Toronto Yonge Finch-Steeles BRT - $17.3 million

Durham-Highway 2 BRT Spine - $82.3 million

[SteelTown]

Yes you heard right, Hamilton is getting another GO Station and FINALLY a VIA Station at James St North.

[SteelTown]

GTTA Quick-Wins: (meaning the money will flow right away)

Hamilton Upper James Corridor - $5.5 million

Six new articulated diesel-electric hybrid buses will provide increased service levels on the Downtown-GO Terminal-Mohawk College-Hamilton International Airport Route by 2009, as a precursor to future rapid transit improvements on Upper James Street

[SteelTown]

It's all here

http://www.gtta.com/en/business/20071123/7-SII-07-001MoveOntario_Quick_Win_Investment_Package.pdf

http://www.gtta.com/en/business/20071123/Nov07agenda.htm

[flar]

Alright now start building!

With a new GO/VIA station, the area around James North is set up to be the hottest property in town. Buy those old rowhouses now or you'll never be able to afford them.

[SteelTown]

The James GO Station will be Hamilton's 24 hrs GO Station and VIA Station as well. These GTTA list is to be all done by 2009 so we'll probably see it built mid or late next year.

The Hunter GO Station will continue to have the GO buses and probably will continue to have rush hour GO Train service.

The GO Train will have two different routes into Hamilton. Hamilton will likely be a big GO Train hub in the future especially with being the Gateway to the Niagara as the GTTA is calling it.

[DC83]

Wow awesome news!!

If GO leaves TH&B on Hunter, then it would make the PERFECT HSR downtown Terminal: Indoor (climatized) waiting area, BATHROOMS FOR DRIVERS and passengers, food & drink.

Wow... I'm so impressed!

[SteelTown]

^ Yea that would be a good idea!

I would close Hughson St to auto traffic and have covered and bigger sidewalks and install bus trolleys from Hunter GO or HSR Station to Liuna Station where the new GO/VIA Station will be located at.

[DC83]

^ Yea that would be a good idea!

I would close Hughson St to auto traffic and have covered and bigger sidewalks and install bus trolleys from Hunter GO or HSR Station to Liuna Station where the new GO/VIA Station will be located at.

Ya some type of connecting device would be needed. But I really hope the City rethinks their McNabb terminal idea now that GO will be moving to James North. This is the perfect opportunity to recreate the old Transit Terminal style of taking public transit.
It's a lot more attractive that waiting for a bus outside!

And with the way Light Rail trains are now-a-days, there shouldn't be a problem with having it go down James to Hunter then back up John to Main. Is this too expensive or worth the investment??

[SteelTown]

Think all of the HSR buses could be re-routed to the Hunter station? Might have to leave a few buses at the MacNab terminal.

[DC83]

Well even if GO buses stay, there's still what? Half a dozen bays that don't get used in the back? Besides the back, there's tons of room infront of TH&B that could accomodate. The street already has an inset for parking. Those could be used as bays to park HSR buses instead.

[SteelTown]

I'm pretty sure all of the current GO buses will be staying at the Hunter GO Station. There's also other bus services that uses the station like Greyhound. Obviously they'll be a bus or two going to the new waterfront GO Station.

[SteelTown]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v174/Appster/goham.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v174/Appster/goham1.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v174/Appster/goham2.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v174/Appster/goham3.jpg

[matt602]

Very good to read, but sadly it seems light rail is not gonna be happening. I totally didn't expect the VIA/GO announcement, this is awesome. Also if I interpret the plans correctly, it seems like they somehow intend to use the existing station there? They only outline building platforms there, not a station. It also says they'll be using the "site of the former CN station". I guess they'd have to buy it back from LIUNA...

[raisethehammer]

hmmm, sounds good.
Although it sounds like GO hasn't approved this idea yet.
I don't think I'd want all HSR buses re-routed to Hunter. Most pedestrians in the Gore area are there because of transit. I'd like to see Hughson used to connect Gore to Hunter and leave the King/Main buses on King and Main at Gore. Even when (if) it becomes a pedestrian-only zone I'd like the east/west routes to remain on the north side of King. Losing HSR at the Gore would result in a ghost-town type feeling compared with the bustle we're all used to now.
I can't see GO sending trains to two different stations so close together.
I worry about the current GO station if all trains were re-routed to James North.
Obviously VIA would use James North.
It's nice having GO Trains right in the heart of downtown.

So, are they ordering more artics for the B-Line?? Or just the A-Line?

[raisethehammer]

Very good to read, but sadly it seems light rail is not gonna be happening. I totally didn't expect the VIA/GO announcement, this is awesome. Also if I interpret the plans correctly, it seems like they somehow intend to use the existing station there? They only outline building platforms there, not a station. It also says they'll be using the "site of the former CN station". I guess they'd have to buy it back from LIUNA...

what do you mean 'light rail won't be happening'??
because of the bus orders? I wouldn't think that. We could still do LRT downtown and use all the hybrid artics for the A-Line or busy routes like Barton.

[matt602]

Well I hope you're right honestly, I don't like the idea of bus rapid transit either... it just seemed that way to me.

[SteelTown]

[QUOTE=raisethehammer;3181399
Although it sounds like GO hasn't approved this idea yet. [/QUOTE]

GTTA now operates GO transit so yea it's been approved haha

[raisethehammer]

don't get me wrong..the odds of LRT is slim.
This is Hamilton, after all. We spend money like that on roads and highways not crummy public transit.

[SteelTown]

I can't see GO sending trains to two different stations so close together.
I worry about the current GO station if all trains were re-routed to James North.
Obviously VIA would use James North.
It's nice having GO Trains right in the heart of downtown.

GO buses will still be using the Hunter GO Station no matter what. Remember GO transit plans to build a yard for the Hunter Station so even if there's a new GO Station by the waterfront they'll still be trains coming to the Hunter Station, just that it won't be a 24 hrs station, it'll only have rush hour services as it's currently is. The waterfront station is where Hamilton's 24 hrs station will be at.

[SteelTown]

32 East-West Rapid Transit King Street-Main Street Eastgate Mall to McMaster University
33 North-South Rapid Transit James/Upper James Street Downtown Hamilton to Rymal Road

• Incremental phased-in approach to Bus Rapid Transit will unlikely achieve minimum AFP project size threshold

• GTTA proposed staff workplan approach:
Continue to work with municipal officials to develop ultimate end-state BRT or LRT vision
Meanwhile, provide support for next incremental investments in BRT through proposed GTTA MoveOntario 2020 quick-win package

[raisethehammer]

am I the only one who has a hard time seeing us have 24-hour GO trains anytime in the next decade??

[matt602]

I don't really care about 24 hours, I just want steady weekday and weekend service. I'm not enjoying the bare bones rush hour service we're getting now. Hell, the trains aren't even bi-directional. It's only out to Toronto in the morning and back to Hamilton in the evening. Want a train out to Toronto in the afternoon/evening? No dice. Take the bus and enjoy the QEW parking lot.

[the dude]

i go to TO fairly frequently and would love the opportunity to take the train. i know i'm not the only one, though i don't know about it being 24hrs. perhaps demand would increase with availability.

[LikeHamilton]

VIA has not approved it yet. And from people I know that have worked on getting VIA to Hamilton…don’t hold your breath. There not interested in that location. They either want a lot of money and fix the Hunter tunnel, connect to the CN line by Ottawa Street (Gage Avenue line) and be in the GO Centre (centrally located one stop transit center) or be in the east end close to vehicle access and parking. James is too close to Aldershot and they will not leave there. It is in the almighty corridor.

I cannot see any advantage to GO splitting their operations and have trains and busses almost 2 km apart. I really do not think people coming downtown on a bus will be interested in transferring to another bus and add another 15 to 20 minutes each way to their daily commute.

I think we should be pushing for the proper solution and put everything around the GO Center. Go & VIA left James because it generated no increases in traffic. Even GO had increases almost immediately after move from James to the GO Center.

We keep nickel and dimming everything in this city. Make a transportation hub in one location. Connect it to the other transportation hub in the city, the Airport.

Make a long term plan for light rail and not just the two lines. The original proposal for LRT should not be based on the old City of Hamilton boundaries, which they are being proposed at this time. This is one big city. The east west line should start by Fruitland Road at Hwy 8. There is still a lot of vacant land out there. Build a small station and a huge free parking lot. There is direct access to the QEW at Fruitland Road and encourage people to take the LRT to downtown and the GO Centre. The west end should go into Dundas along Main Street and not Cootes Drive (Not yet). Run the line to the bottom of HWY 8 where it is industrial land like chemical plants. Again with a small station and large free parking lot. Take the LRT to McMaster and the GO station there instead of driving to Aldershot or downtown. The reason for a line into Dundas via Main Street/Osler Drive is that you then, as a future project, run a line up to Ancaster Via Main/HWY 2 Hill/Wilson Street, through downtown Ancaster by the new Fair Grounds to HWY 52. Again with access to HWY 403 and with a small station and large free parking lot connecting to the GO station at McMaster, the Innovation Centre and on to downtown.

The north south line starts at the waterfront to the GO Center, over to the Claremont Access to the West 5th exit to a new Mohawk College transit centre (Connected to the school), along Fennell back to Upper James to the Airport. The Airport part should be built from the beginning. The present plan has it stop at Rymal the historic old city limits. The proposal should have a plan to extend to the line to Caledonia. If not into the town as far as the rail line at least to the city limits again with a small station and large free parking lot. We should push this part as the government having faith in the future growth of Caledonia. Good PR for the provincial government.

Other lines that should be laid out are, in no particular order:

· East west Mohawk Road from Wilson Street line to the Meadowlands, across the mountain, across the Red Hill Parkway and down Mud Street to Centennial Parkway.

· Short Fennell line from Mohawk College terminal to Mountain Brow Blvd.

· A Short line on Concession from Upper Ottawa to Upper Wellington. Then up to Fennel and either end or continue on to the Mohawk College station.

· A line running from the Meadowlands (Connecting to the Mohawk line) to Mud Street VIA the LINK. This would be more of an express east west line.

· A Rymal Road run from the Ancaster Fair Ground to Upper Centennial.

· A King Street line (the first east west should be on Main Street/Question Road/Hwy 8) from the Hwy 8/Fruitland Road terminal then on to King Street in Stoney Creek staying on King Street to McMaster. This line could then continue on to Dundas along Cootes Drive.

· A Barton Street line starting around 50 Road and the Peach Festival Fair Grounds travelling to James Street/Waterfront area and maybe then up to the GO Centre.

· A Cannon Street Short line from Parkdale to Dundurn Park and possibly a seasonal run into the Botanical Gardens. This line may be extended into Burlington/Aldershot to the VIA/GO Station one day.

· North south lines, besides a Wilson Street/Ancaster and James/Upper James route, a line should run from the huge large development in Binbrook. This can go down Hwy 56 or at time through fields to Upper Centennial down Hwy 20 Hill and then down Centennial to the QEW and the new (I think they will build it) power centre and VIA/GO station. This line can be extended to Confederation Park and down Beach Blvd to the canal and lift bridge.

· A line should be built on Upper Ottawa from Rymal Road with connections at the LINK, Mohawk, Fennell and Concession, down the Kenilworth Access to King and then over Ottawa Street and down to the Centre mall connecting to the Main, King, Cannon and Barton Street routes.

Yes this will take a few years to complete. But once the ball starts to roll and people and the different levels of government see the return on their investments, it will be easier to get funding. Also developers and people buying houses/property/businesses will know that there will be an LRT line near them in the near future. After seeing how it is great for business, developers, home owners and business people may start asking for a LRT line to be extended or a new line be built into their area

Let the other levels of government know you’re serious about better transportation and not just go for what you think they will fund. Who knows, they maybe looking for someone with vision to lead the next revolution in transportation in the province and country?

:2cents:

[SteelTown]

For 6 new articulated buses it cost $5.5 million. Those are coming right away, as announced by Dalton during the election.

For the East/West corridor $17.4 million will be spent for 12 buses which should cost $11 million. So they'll be $6.4 million leftover, probably for streetscaping to add a transit lane.

[DC83]

For 6 new articulated buses it cost $5.5 million. Those are coming right away, as announced by Dalton during the election.

For the East/West corridor $17.4 million will be spent for 12 buses which should cost $11 million. So they'll be $6.4 million leftover, probably for streetscaping to add a transit lane.

I don't think the addition of all these buses necessarily means that we will only ever get BRT.
The fact is, there are not enough Articulated Hybrid Buses currently. I take this route twice daily, and it's very rare that I get on one of these buses. Prolly like 2-3 rides /week. And everytime I'm on a normal bus (as either King or Beeline), it's crazy packed (depending on the time of the day).
So these new buses will be a VERY welcome addition... yet it certainly doesn't limit us to BRT.

If the city were to start building LRT, would they wait til 2010 or whatever it was for the money from Dalton? Or would they start once the official plan was complete?

[SteelTown]

You can see below how and when the $17.4 million for the East/West corridor will be spent, 12 new buses and $6.4 million leftover.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v174/Appster/goham.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v174/Appster/goham1.jpg

[raisethehammer]

17.4 million?? well, in that case I think we should be planning for LRT immediately. Why waste 17.4 on buses?? let's do it right...we have one shot at this.

[SteelTown]

It's not $17.4 million towards buses for the East/West corridor it's $11 million. $6.4 million is going towards BRT such as streetscaping, and terminals.

[the dude]

so confused. i guess the stations could be built and used for lrt IF it comes to that.

the james north station also confuses me. i suppose we'll have to wait for these things to work themselves out. too much speculation.

[coalminecanary]

I think we should be pushing for the proper solution and put everything around the GO Center.

LH you make a ton of great points and I wish I had time right now to formulate a better response. But for now I want to single out that one sentence and say ABSOULTELY RIGHT ON!

RTH, I'm sorry but I think you are wrong about gore ghosting if the buses are gone. King/James is THE core of the city. It is the ONE spot downtown that needs the least amount of help in terms of getting people in. The proper way to keep gore bustling is to give people some real reasons to go there other than waiting for buses. This means getting vehicles off the south leg and turning the whole thing into an outdoor market every weekend. Host festivals there, have concerts... whatever. Have some REAL attraction there. Bus stops aren't attractions. In fact, huge masses of people waiting for buses there is a sign that our transit system is f'd up as far as wait times go.

The HSR needs a central terminal. It does not have to be a garage, or a specific building, or an enormous structure but the system HAS to have one central spot. The GO station is the perfect choice. The space is there. It's beautiful. It's already built. It links HSR users to regional and long distance transit options.

We need to bring VIA, full service GO and the HSR to Hunter.

We need to creatively route LRT through Hunter. LRT does NOT have to run down a single street. In fact, some intriguing points came up last night.. it might be publicly and politically easier to present an LRT plan that puts the line down some of the less used streets downtown (such as king william).

Anyway lots to think about but the bottom line is that the whole point to the GTTA thing is to create an entire region with sensible links. This means all transit modes should converge at one central spot in each city.

[LikeHamilton]

There is more space around the GO Centre than there is in the MacNab Street area. I would remove one building on John Street that is on it's own to build a transit centre for the HSR along Hunter Street. It can be closed to cars. I would try to get as much covered on the site to make it more comfortable for waiting passengers. The HSR already has a ticket office in the GO Centre. There is a restaurant and convenience/coffee shop and facilities there. Plus all of the inter-city buses run out of there.

MacNab Street

http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/7500/macnabstreetnz9.jpg

GO Centre

http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/1281/gocentrehr1.jpg

MacNab Street and the GO Centre Comparison.

http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/7613/gocentremacnabstreet1yw9.jpg

[coalminecanary]

That building across from the go centre (right above the word "hunter" in your aerials) will not likely be torn down. Isn't it under redevelopment right now?

I argue that the GO centre could be used RIGHT NOW as an hsr terminal with no work other than some route changes, a few curbs and painted lines. the bus area behind the centre is horribly underused most of the time. it all just needs to be planned better.

[DC83]

^^ Amen!! The TH&B is totally underused and has so much opportunity to be a huge, bustling terminal... like how it used to be in the old days (King/Catherine).

RTH, I'm sorry but I think you are wrong about gore ghosting if the buses are gone. King/James is THE core of the city. It is the ONE spot downtown that needs the least amount of help in terms of getting people in. The proper way to keep gore bustling is to give people some real reasons to go there other than waiting for buses.

There's a big rant from me about this in the Pedestrianize Gore Park thread, and I agree 100%. It's the BIA's fault that no one is in the Gore other than those waiting for buses. If you're waiting for a bus, you're not going to stop into Taj Mahal for a bite to eat... you'll end up missing ur bus.

Once the BIA gets it's act together, it'll be a much different story in the Gore.

[raisethehammer]

I like the idea of a central 'terminal' at GO Station, but PLEASE, no more knocking down buildings!
Allow me to clarify what I mean by the buses bringing traffic and business to the Gore.
my bus takes me right to King and James... I regularly do my banking, go to the market, stop for a coffee at PAMs etc....
I wouldn't be doing that if my bus ended at Hunter. Well, actually, I personally might, but someone from the east end or Mountain isn't going to want to walk all the way from Hunter to the market and back.
Look at transit hubs in Toronto - full of shops, people, business etc....that was my main point. Transit brings business to the Gore.
Remember that online Spec interview they did when Fred suggested pedestrians only downtown? one shop owner said "none of these cars are stopping to eat in my restaurant, the people walking on the street are".

Transit can and should become a focal point of business/commerce/street life.
Watch how many people waiting for a bus on King St have a coffee in their hand, or pizza or bagel etc..... Hunter would be fine for mountain buses (although I'd rather them turn around at Rebecca or Cannon St) but the east west buses should remain on the north leg of King....and I'd LOVE to see LRT running past Gore. They could open up a piece of the fence on the north side of the park for a platform/station right at Hughson.

[coalminecanary]

heres a possible lrt route that includes mcmaster, the student ghetto, innovation park, hunter TERMINAL ;-) and gore. requires widening the hunter st tunnel which needs to be done anyway so that we can make hunter a transit hub. lrt doesnt have to run just straight down one street :-)
http://www.neenerneet.net/lrt-map.jpg

[coalminecanary]

someone from the east end or Mountain isn't going to want to walk all the way from Hunter to the market and back.

Yes but ideally a central hub would make switching buses much easier and allow for better timing where at least the drivers can see each other and communicate. So switching to a bus that gets you to the market is painless. Also, the buses don't have to turn around at hunter. They could stop for a couple minutes and continue on to other parts of downtown. I.e. it doesnt have to be a turnaround for each bus. you don't have to get off there. if you stay on, it could go to other interesting palces before backtracking, right?

Transit can and should become a focal point of business/commerce/street life.
Watch how many people waiting for a bus on King St have a coffee in their hand, or pizza or bagel etc.....

There's no reason we shoudln't allow hunter to have a little transit oriented development. After all, newcomers to the city get off at the hunter station. shoudln't they step out the door into some nice retail etc? why do we have to restrict the retail to gore? in my opinion, the true core includes the hunter station, city hall, the market, etc... gore just happens to be "ground zero"


Hunter would be fine for mountain buses (although I'd rather them turn around at Rebecca or Cannon St) but the east west buses should remain on the north leg of King

the east west buses can still come as far as hughson (or james or john or whatever) and people can still get off at a stop that essentially touches the gore. but the buses will continue on to hunter where the drivers can have a pee break and passengers can transfer buses at least underneath a roof...

The bottom line is gore is a beautiful spot that doesnt need parked buses to bring people there. we need a central hub, not two separate ones where you ahve to walk a block or more in order to switch buses. lets use some ATTRACTIVE methods to keep people coming to gore, and move the buses out!

[raisethehammer]

agreed wholeheartedly. I'm not suggesting for a minute to keep buses in the Gore.
I'm referring to the north leg of King and Main Street.
Also, I really prefer LRT to be on the street. the whole goal is economic development and transit-oriented development. using a back route from Mac to downtown minimizes that.
Plus, we have AMPLE space on Main/King Streets for LRT. Not to mention, ample development potential.

[coalminecanary]

true (regarding development) but as far as servicing riders, cutting through a student area and through the inno park as well as mcmaster and the hunter station... huge. lots of street level development still available downtown if it cuts down hughson from hunter. also might be easier to sway the car lovers toward LRT if it's on king william instead of main or king straight through the core... leave the precious lanes alone for that stretch. we's then see tonnes of development along king william and king is still plenty close to take overflow TOD. king william could use the boost and it could be a transit-only street (no cars)... that woudl be awesome i think

anyway, i have to quit dreaming about routes but its hard not to

[the dude]

lots of great ideas here. too bad we're not making any of the decisions. having hunter be the hub is a great idea but as others have said, not all routes have to pass through it. the main east-west routes should stick to main and/or king. for efficiency purposes there should be as little deviation from the main route as possible. let's remember that there will be stations at both ends of the route, whatever it ends up being. they won't necessarily have to stop in at hunter. anyway, great discussion. hopefully we can get more people across the city to join in.

[hamiltonguy]

OK well Go wants to expand to Niagara so connecting in the East End to GO will not involve Hunter Street. Therefore the 2, 3, and 4 don't really need to connect to hunter street. Every other bus (other than King) already goes past the terminal or in the case of 5 Eastbound pass only a block north.

All terminating Buses at Hunter will do is make people from the Mountain walk further. Plus the routing for the LRT becomes painfull to make it link to Hunter Street. The only logically solution is McNab Street.


And Via will never come by Hunter Street as the CPR is incompetent at running a railroad and can't schedule to allow more than a few more trains than currently exist that use the Tunnel. Not to mention the connection back to the CN line would be hard to build and it would add much more travel time. Likely what i see for Hunter Street is expanded rush hour service GO service.

For James Street I see all day GO service (through to Grimsby or St. Catharines) and Via service.

Anyways regardless of this funding i still think we should push ahead quickly with a short Downtown-Waterfront Modern Streetcar route, with the funding raised from Bonds. We could then pay them back with the higher property taxes and have money left over to help convert the Aline and Bline to LRT.

[raisethehammer]

imagine a modern streetcar route connecting the west harbour with james north, gore, hess, locke, james south/ go station/ st joes, corktown, international village/ king william....that would be sweet.

[the dude]

if we're going to take on more debt then better to complete the east-west line, or at least half of it. that's the most important route. the province has to pay for this or it doesn't make sense.

[ihateittoo]

HERE WE GO:

http://www.newswire.ca/en/releases/archive/November2007/23/c3918.html

- Investments in Hamilton's James and King-Main transit corridors, and
a new platform to accommodate future GO and VIA rail service to James
Street North station

[Berklon]

... and a new platform to accommodate future GO and VIA rail service to James Street North station

GO service to James Street North station... what's the point?

[hamiltonguy]

GO service to James Street North station... what's the point?


If people would listen it is for through service to Niagara.

[SteelTown]

Great news huh!

I wonder how Liuna Station and the new GO/VIA are going to work together at the old CN Station. From the sounds of it that space next to Liuna Station will be a parking structure to satisfy VIA's demand for plenty of parking spots. I guess the city will have to fork up the cost for that part.

[SteelTown]

I wouldn't be surprised a few years from now that they'll be a tiny GO station at Centennial Parkway next to the CN line.

[raisethehammer]

sounds great to me!
I know someone who lives in the Main/Ottawa area. They drive to Burlington GO everyday to catch the train to TO. Regular trains downtown here are essential.
What's this BRT along Dundas Street? would that come right over to Waterdown I wonder??
I hope to high heaven that city hall goes for LRT on our east/west line instead of BRT.
In the report going to COW next week it shows about $160 million recommended for BRT. Yet, most of it is for mountain BRT lines, not the east/west corridor. Only 10 mil or something for the east/west line. not sure what's up with that.

[markbarbera]

As a regular commuter from Hamilton to Toronto, expanded service from James North just makes no sense to me. It is the one location where its use will be an inconvenience for both pedestrians and commuters transferring from cars. This is a case of GTTA advocating the cheaper option rather than the smarter (but costlier) option of improving Hunter to handle service expansion.

First off, the James North location is inconvenient for pedestrians and for those connecting from other forms of public transit. Currently, if someone wants to board a train at Hunter, it is a direct connection for about 80% of all city transit lines, and 100% of all intercity bus service. James North connections would require city transit users to add at least one bus transfer to their itinerary or hoof it from downtown to James and Murray, a good 15 minute walk. Adding travel time to commuters will not sell a service. This is counter-intuitive to the MoveOntario 2020's objective to make inter-regional commuting faster and easier.

Those of you who are extolling the virtues of having parking at this location should reconsider your position. Do you really want more cars driving into and out of the city centre during rush hours, adding to congestion and air pollution? The initial reaction may be yes, since this brings more people downtown, but consider that these are transitory commuters whose primary focus is getting to work on time then getting back home as early as possible. The only potential economic benefit is going to be increased morning coffee business at the station.

There seems to be a perception out there that inner city rail stations must provide a parking element to be successful. That is simply not the case. Can anyone cite an example of a urban centre with a transit system that offers complimentary parking at stations located in the downtown core? I can't think of any. It only makes sense to provide parking at feeder stations in the suburban areas of a transit line.

[SteelTown]

GTTA eyes James Street for GO and VIA rail stop

The Hamilton Spectator
(Nov 24, 2007)

Councillor Bob Bratina could yet realize his dream of having rail passenger service return to James Street North.

The Greater Toronto Transportation Authority, headed by former Burlington Mayor Rob MacIsaac, is recommending the province build a new platform to accommodate future GO and Via rail service at a James Street North station. The project is one of 14 the GTTA identified yesterday for funding consideration. The GTTA also recommended Hamilton's James and King Street-Main Street transit corridors and a bus rapid transit service along Dundas Street in Halton.

GO trains into Hamilton stop at the old TH&B station on Hunter Street, but Bratina has been pushing for a Via rail stop where James Street North crosses the CN Rail tracks, near Liuna Station. The old CN station stopped serving passengers Feb. 26, 1993 and was converted into a popular banquet centre.

A platform beside it served GO passengers until the downtown GO Centre opened after a $65-million retrofit in 1996. Via trains stop in Aldershot to serve Hamilton.

[SteelTown]

So if GO/VIA moves to Liuna Station the city is gonna have to encourage a new transit route from Hunter Station, Gore Park, and Liuna Station. I think Hughson St should become a rapid transit corridor to link each Station and the downtown core.

[Berklon]

As a regular commuter from Hamilton to Toronto, expanded service from James North just makes no sense to me. It is the one location where its use will be an inconvenience for both pedestrians and commuters transferring from cars.

I agree.

I used to take the GO out of the James North location everyday and it was a major pain in the ass. When it switched over to Hunter street, it made my life as well as many others so much easier - right away I saw an increase in GO train riders. Most busses stop very close to the Hunter station - very convenient.

Who the hell wants to walk 15-20 minutes (especially in the winter) to catch a train at James North? Transferring to another bus to take you to James North is also a pain - especially if the bus you're on to get downtown is running behind schedule making you miss your bus transfer to James North. GO train riders have to take 2 busses just to get the priveledge of taking another form of transportation to get to work.... and then the same headache going home. Nevermind that some people have to already walk 5 to 10 minutes to get from their home to the bus stop (and vice-versa) in the first place.

Moving GO train service away from Hunter is STUPID, STUIPD, STUPID! Here's an idea... ask the people who actually use the service what they think!

[SteelTown]

As far as I know GO train will still be running at the Hunter station just rush hour service, GO transit it still going ahead with building a yard in Hamilton to increase rush hour service. The non rush hour GO train service will switch over to James St North.

Nothing changes just more convenience of an additional station.

[Berklon]

As far as I know GO train will still be running at the Hunter station just rush hour service, GO transit it still going ahead with building a yard in Hamilton to increase rush hour service. The non rush hour GO train service will switch over to James St North.

Nothing changes just more convenience of an additional station.

If this is the case, then I (as well as many others) will have no issues at all.

[raisethehammer]

I think we are all just guessing...GO hasn't commited to anything on James North yet.

[SteelTown]

^ Again the GTTA operates GO Transit. If GTTA wants a new platform at the James St Station then it has confirmed that GO Tranist wants to go there.

"Officially known as the Greater Toronto Transit Authority (GTTA), GO Transit provides safe, convenient, and efficient transportation to the communities of the Toronto area."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greater_Toronto_Transportation_Authority

[raisethehammer]

I realize that, but that doesn't make it a shoe-in.
Like when council directed Valeri to try to bring VIA rail to downtown. The feds own VIA, but they told him to screw off basically.
He came sauntering back to town yapping about Centre Mall and East Hamilton.
Years later, we still have no VIA service.

[hamiltonguy]

Basically James Street North will only be a stop on the GO Lakeshore Niagara Branch. Because of the limitation on full day service to Hunter (because of the tunnel) this will also be the place we can catch GO trains during the day.

Basing things on standard GO station spacings there will also probably be a:

East End Station (Ottawa Street maybe?)

Centennial Parkway Station

and

an East Stoney Creek Station.

[Jon Dalton]

They can't move away from Hunter St. without pissing alot of people off, including me. I moved to the GO station's backyard for a reason. There's also everyone who bought in the Chateau Royale and commutes, as well as homeowners in Durand and Corktown. The Piggott building and the one next to it are also walking distance to Hunter. Around the CN tracks, there's really nothing comparable.

They invested millions to switch to Hunter St. in the first place, why, to allow for more service. That never really happened. They added one train. GO is allowed 20 trains a day through the tunnel, all they have to do is build the storage yard and stop wasting their tunnel passes running deadheads back to Toronto.

The James North station makes perfect sense for the time, as a VIA station. Addidtional GO trains could run there until they complete the Hunter St. tunnel and run proper GO service there. It makes way less sense to have GO buses and trains at different stations and require a 25 minute walk just to transfer on the same system. Very few people if any would arrive in Hamilton on a GO train to transfer to a VIA train to Niagara. They would be on VIA in the first place.

As for being too close to Aldershot, that's simple. Niagara trains would not stop at Aldershot. Windsor trains would still use it, because it's as close to Hamilton as they can get. If they ever get enough demand to run trains from Niagara through to Windsor, they would stop in Hamilton, connecting us to the corridor without the pain in the ass trip to Aldershot.

[Jon Dalton]

Sad day for transit, eh?

Well the initial outlay of funds is only $25 million towards BRT. As to how the hell you could even spend $160 million on buses and bus lanes, they will have to find some creative ways to waste that money. In the meantime, isn't it still worthwhile to campaign for LRT since the real money won't come for a couple of years?

[DC83]

^^ $60million for the busses/lanes, $100million to the bureaucrats! I'm pretty sure that's how it works in Hamilton.

[fastcarsfreedom]

This is absolutely classic--years of complaints of no funding for the city for transit and now you don't want the money they are providing?

Did anyone open their eyes and realize that these debates over where these new services will go are really good problems to have?

The self-loathing, negative, entitled attitude that permeates every discussion here really is indicitive of the vocal minority that has long existed in Hamilton and has held-back a true renaissance for decades. Government and private interests show up with money but this 'city' whether it's the NIMBY crowd or the political crowd insist that the money be spent "there way" or else they don't want it. It's utterly and completely unbelievable--what if this money were all going to Peel, York and Durham for BRT and nothing was coming to Hamilton--what would you be saying then?

[fastcarsfreedom]

As for expanded GO service into the city--that has been a promise for at least 20 years as far back as I can remember. You'll recall that all-day GO train service extended into Burlington in the early 1990s--and that construction at Aldershot and TH&B was designed to accomodate further expansion of service westward. When the Bob Rae government completely convinced itself that the provincial treasury might be insolvent, the GO service was cut back drastically--though the downstream stations were accordingly completely.

I acknowledge that the Aldershot station is about as warm and inviting as a wet sock--but it's presence and inclusion in the GO system is vital. If you consider the current growth in both Aldershot and Waterdown--that station is going to consistently get busier as the years pass and the population spikes. All of those cars that pack that parking lot are going to be cars that are not on the QEW--seems to me that's a positive. VIAs operation there is more of a quirk than anything--obviously it assumed Hamilton's role on the Toronto-New York line, and actually brought service on the Windsor-Toronto line closer--at least since the Dundas station was abandoned--and that's going back at least 20 years also. As far as I can remember, travelling to London to Windsor prior to Aldershot meant either driving to Brantford or Burlington, or taking VIA into Burlington or Oakville and connecting.

Seriously--if there is GO service in two places downtown, isnt that better than the status quo?

[SteelTown]

Initial Bus Rapid Transit Implementation

East-West Lower City (14 km @$1 M/km)) Short term $14,000,000

Central North-South Corridor (6.5 km @$10 M/km) Medium term $65,000,000

East-West Mountain (14 km @ $5 M/km) Long term $70,000,000

Other Corridors Long term $10,000,000

Sub-total $159,000,000

The North-South corridor is James and Upper James route. That corridor is going to have transit lanes in the middle like St. Clair at Toronto. You can see the idea at the report. So really the majority of the cost is towards construction of transit lanes, terminals, etc. I don't mind because it'll be cheap and easy to convert to LRT in the future, just add tracks and new trams.

[raisethehammer]

This is absolutely classic--years of complaints of no funding for the city for transit and now you don't want the money they are providing?

Did anyone open their eyes and realize that these debates over where these new services will go are really good problems to have?

The self-loathing, negative, entitled attitude that permeates every discussion here really is indicitive of the vocal minority that has long existed in Hamilton and has held-back a true renaissance for decades. Government and private interests show up with money but this 'city' whether it's the NIMBY crowd or the political crowd insist that the money be spent "there way" or else they don't want it. It's utterly and completely unbelievable--what if this money were all going to Peel, York and Durham for BRT and nothing was coming to Hamilton--what would you be saying then?



O my word..."holding back the renaissance"??
We've been too busy subdizing all the rich brats in the suburbs the past 30 years to be worrying about (or being able to afford) our 'renaissance'.
You made a bunch of comments here I don't agree with, but since you don't live here I won't bother.
I guess your idea of a renaissance is all the wonderful development along the Linc and 403 in Ancaster eh?? Don't worry..much more is coming on the east Mountain.

We're all stating our opinion on how 160 million should be spent...Hamilton is famous for wasting money (aka Red Hill). I realize you live in a casino town so wasting money is a regular past-time, but forgive some of us for actually wanting a proper transit system for Hamilton.
More citizens like the folks on this forum would do wonders at city hall...maybe then we'd see the seeds of a renaissance planted instead of more crap in the burbs on the backs of urban taxpayers.

[raisethehammer]

Initial Bus Rapid Transit Implementation

East-West Lower City (14 km @$1 M/km)) Short term $14,000,000

Central North-South Corridor (6.5 km @$10 M/km) Medium term $65,000,000

East-West Mountain (14 km @ $5 M/km) Long term $70,000,000

Other Corridors Long term $10,000,000

Sub-total $159,000,000

The North-South corridor is James and Upper James route. That corridor is going to have transit lanes in the middle like St. Clair at Toronto. You can see the idea at the report. So really the majority of the cost is towards construction of transit lanes, terminals, etc. I don't mind because it'll be cheap and easy to convert to LRT in the future, just add tracks and new trams.


could you link to this report?? I must be reading the wrong ones.
Thx.

[flar]

They're spending $10M/km on the N-S route and $5M/km on the other mountian route, which are both destined to be BRT long term. That should make a nice BRT system on the Mountain connecting to a downtown terminal via James, and this hopefully will happen in the short term. Only $1M/km on the lower city route, hopefully because the other $300M+ will be going toward LRT down there over the long term.

[markbarbera]

Seriously--if there is GO service in two places downtown, isnt that better than the status quo?

Seriously -- no.


Two GO train stations serving the same area but at different times and with different connection nodes - how is this better? If additional trains are offered at a station not easily accessible without increasing overall commuting time, there is no benefit to having the additional service.

Successful transit requires a central multi-modal hub. A city of our size with two hubs is setting the service up for failure.

Hamiltonians far too often shrug their shoulders and accept the crumbs thrown their way thinking 'hey, it's better than nothing'. We shouldn't simply accept mediocrity - we should demand better. After all, it is our tax dollars funding these projects, isn't it?

One other thing, to correctly recount history, cuts to GO Transit service in the early 1990's was part of Rae's Social Contract and were a temporary measure, much as the infamous civil servant Rae Days were temporary. When the Harris Conservatives defeated the Rae NDP government, they decided to make the GO service cuts permanent. This decision was then reversed by the McGuinty Liberals once they gained power.

[Jon Dalton]

Peoples' cynicism here is not the cause of our problems. It's the other way around. Those who follow municipal affairs in Hamilton witness the most piss poor decisions being made on a daily basis.

The transit money is being handed to us to create rapid transit lines. The details of its implementation are largely the city's responsibility. Toronto planned light rail lines for its future, so when the money comes, that's what they will do with it.

Mississauga, for christ's sake is even planning and LRT line. All this noise about LRT really started when the funding was already announced. What was previously only a dream, was suddenly a realistic option. Our city didn't even consider it.

I for one, appreciate raisethehammer's sarcastic comments and feel they are called for.

[raisethehammer]

I appreciate that, but I wasn't being sarcastic. You're exactly right Jon...the crap at city hall is the reason for Hamilton's puddle jumping.

I have no problem with BRT on the Mountain....but LRT should be used on the east/west line. Let's hope they are at least researching it behind the scenes...frig, doing research on LRT these days is simple. Mind you, nothing is simple at city hall.

[SteelTown]

Central North-South Corridor (6.5 km @$10 M/km) Medium term $65,000,000

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y217/dahammer/north-south.jpg

[raisethehammer]

Oh those...thx for posting.
yea, I remember seeing them before. I just assumed they were there for reference and not actual ideas of what they plan to do.
I think that would be great for Upper James.
There are sites you can go online and see really modern versions of BRT. Heck, even www.newflyer.com , the company that makes our artics, has a really stylish BRT vehicle..much cooler than ours, with doors on both sides.

The escarpment climb would make LRT on the mountain a bit tricky...but again, not to beat a dead horse (and sadly it sounds like it may be dead) but LRT is the way to go in the lower city.

[SteelTown]

One reason why it's $14 million for East/West corridor and $65 million for North/South corridor is because for the East/West corridor the rapid transit line will go along Main and King making a circle. That's not the case for James and Upper James, it'll be up and down on James so it has to have a median transit lane therefore a higher cost associated.

[SteelTown]

GTTA is getting renamed as MetroLinx.

http://www.metrolinx.com/default.aspx

[raisethehammer]

hmmm...interesting name. at least they chose a name that doesn't have the word 'Toronto' in it. i'm surprised they were allowed to. haha

[vid]

Are they going to apply that name to GO or just have it as the department name?

[matt602]

It's staying as GO Transit. Metrolinx is just the consultation/planning department for the region.

[SteelTown]

^ GTTA or MetroLinx operates GO Transit though. So perhaps GO Transit will change it's name.

[matt602]

What I have read is that they will be running it however the name will stay the same.

[DC83]

Doesn't the Government of Ontario still run/fund GO?
So why would they change the name? I like GO... it doesn't suggest it's only around to service Toronto (although we all know it is)...
Metrolinx makes it seem like they're linking everywhere to Ontario's "Metro".

[markbarbera]

GO Transit will not be rebranded.

[matt602]

Metrolinx is still better than GTTA.

On a transit forum I'm on, everyone was up in arms about the change and how it doesn't sound enough like Toronto something or other. Apparently they don't realize that the planning will be stretching as far away as Niagara/Fort Erie and Kitchener/Waterloo.

I love Toronto but I'm sick of it being the center of the universe for all transit planning. Hamilton, K/W and Niagara get shafted time in and time out, it's time for it to end. You can't ignore a city with half a million residents.

[DC83]

You can't ignore a city with half a million residents.

Why not? They ignore the other 25million people in this country, what's 500,000 poor people from Hamilton? ahahaha

[DC83]

New link for commuters

Toronto Star
(Dec 6, 2007)

Disgruntled commuters can now share their ideas about how to fix the GTA's transit woes thanks to a new interactive website from the regional transit authority.

Launched by Metrolinx -- formerly the Greater Toronto Transportation Authority -- www.metrolinx.com kicks off the public consultation process for the agency's regional transportation plan due this spring.

Ideas about how to fix the region's crowded transit services and congested roadways are welcome, but the site also offers maps, information on transit systems around the world, news, mini-polls and traveller surveys. It will also post Metrolinx policy papers and online discussions.

Transportation Minister Jim Bradley and Metrolinx chair Rob MacIsaac unveiled the site Tuesday. Metrolinx is made up of 11 regional representatives, mostly politicians. Queen's Park appointed it to draft a plan earlier this year.

The GTTA had already recommended $1 billion in priority transit projects for the region.

"We think our consultation process will be unprecedented in its breadth and depth," said MacIsaac, the past mayor of Burlington

http://www.thespec.com/News/Local/article/292108

[Berklon]

I mentioned to a few people who live in the east end of Hamilton and in Stoney Creek (who take the GO to Toronto) that there could be a GO Station on the Hamilton/Stoney Creek border. They didn't see the point and felt it would be better to continue to drive to Burlington for their commute.

I was surprised they felt that way until they gave me their reasons - which I can understand. It takes them roughly 15 minutes to drive to the Burlington station. It would take around 30-35 minutes for the train to travel from the Hamilton/Stoney Creek border to the Burlington station (since it takes 20 minutes from Hunter to Burlington). So basically taking the GO from the east end of Hamilton would add 15-20 minutes to their commute each way (30-40 minutes per day).

Money plays a factor as well. It costs $245 for a monthly GO pass from Burlington to Toronto, where it costs $285 from Hunter... and will probably be $295-$300 from the Hamilton/Stoney Creek border. So basically they'd be paying around $50-$55 more per month.

They would also have to match Burlington's train service as people sometimes need to leave to work later in the morning, and also leave for home later when they put in some OT.

I understand their position and I think it'll be a tough sell to convert these east-end Hamilton commuters who drive to Burlington station.

[flar]

Sound like GO needs a link across the beach strip. Eastport drive is pretty wide and underutilized, hint hint

[Cambridgite]

Disgruntled commuters can now share their ideas about how to fix the GTA's transit woes thanks to a new interactive website from the regional transit authority.

I got an idea. Stop building car-dependent office parks in places like Borington and Jokeville. :whip:

[SteelTown]

Sound like GO needs a link across the beach strip. Eastport drive is pretty wide and underutilized, hint hint

If you do that you'll go right pass the Aldershot station.

Don't forget the GO Train is suppose to get electrification creating Super GO which will speed up the trains faster.

[Berklon]

Don't forget the GO Train is suppose to get electrification creating Super GO which will speed up the trains faster.

The problem is that the increased speed of the GO won't make a big difference during the Hamilton--Aldershot--Burlington part of the trip. The speed increase will be noticed after Burlington, especially during the Oakville--Toronto phase as it usually runs express.

[flar]

If you do that you'll go right pass the Aldershot station.


That's okay, they can skip Aldershot since nobody needs to go there anyway.

[LikeHamilton]

Hamilton getting $5.5 million for transit from province
Cash will buy six diesel-electric buses for Upper James corridor

December 12, 2007
By Robert Benzie
Torstar news service
The Ontario government will announce at least $400 million in new transit funding Thursday, including $100 million for the fledgling regional Metrolinx system, sources told the Star.
Finance Minister Dwight Duncan will table his fall economic statement Thursday afternoon in the Legislature, where he will announce a cash infusion for public transit.
Hamilton stands to receive $5.5 million to pay for six new articulated diesel-electric hybrid buses for the city’s Upper James corridor. Those will help commuters on routes in and around Hamilton International Airport, Mohawk College and the downtown GO terminal.
Duncan will also disclose that $300 million will be earmarked in "state of good repair" funding for transit systems across Ontario, including the TTC.
That much-needed maintenance money will go toward fixing tracks, signals, and switches, and is the first trickle of the $17.5 billion touted for GTA transit in the Liberals' Move Ontario 2020 plan for the next decade.
In addition to that, $100 million will go toward Metrolinx -- known until last week as the Greater Toronto Transportation Authority -- for regional transit.
Metrolinx is aiming for a seamless transportation network through Toronto, Durham, York, Peel, Halton, and Hamilton.
As a boost to the new transit authority, the province will give $60 million to GO Transit to expand the rail fleet with 20 double-decker passenger coaches for the busy Lakeshore corridor, which should alleviate the morning and evening rush hours.
There will be $9 million for 10 new double-decker commuter buses to improve service on the Highways 407-403 corridor, and to York University.
Sources say that is "a precursor to future Highway 407 east-west bus rapid transit."
There will also be $20 million for new passing-track sections for the fast-growing GO lines to Bradford and Stouffville. These will provide all-day, two-way train service between Toronto and Markham and Toronto and Newmarket and East Gwillimbury.
As well, there will be $5.6 million for new platforms at Markham's Cornell transit terminal to integrate the VIVA system with GO, York Region Transit and Durham Region Transit.
"(That's) to create a new gateway to Durham region and the future Seaton urban community," a source said.
The new money comes just two days after Auditor General Jim McCarter castigated GO Transit in his annual report to the Legislature for poor planning.
On Tuesday, McCarter lamented the regional transit system's lack of financial resources and warned service is fast deteriorating.
While Duncan declined to discuss specific initiatives in today's statement, he hinted to reporters yesterday that Ontarians would welcome what he has to say.
"Of course I think it's a very good statement. I feel confident that it will be well received and I look forward to delivering the statement," the treasurer said.
Duncan acknowledged the sputtering U.S. economy, the high Canadian dollar, and soaring energy prices are taking a toll on Ontario's manufacturing sector.
But he refused to say what, if any, measures the government would have to help industry.
Progressive Conservative MPP Bob Runciman (Leeds-Grenville), his party's acting leader in the House, said he is worried the Liberals lack a plan to deal with the "crisis" in manufacturing.
"Hopefully it's not going to be more of this ‘Don't worry, be happy' stuff and talking about one specific sector," said Runciman, referring to the government's preoccupation with automotive manufacturing while ignoring other industries.
"We're looking for relief on the taxation side, we're looking for support in terms of human resources, the regulatory burdens, as well," he said.
NDP Leader Howard Hampton expressed concerns that Premier Dalton McGuinty's recently re-elected administration lacks a plan for an economy that could be on the cusp of challenging times.
"The bad news continues. We've lost almost 200,000 manufacturing jobs in the last three years. This is devastating whole regions of the province," said Hampton.
"So far there's no response from the McGuinty government other than `blame Ottawa.'"

[raisethehammer]

Mohawk College?? Does Upper James route run past there? I thought it went up Upp Wellington and along Inverness...which, by the way, is lame. it should go up james mtn road to Mohawk and then down Fennel to Up. James.

[Da Warrior]

Mohawk College?? Does Upper James route run past there? I thought it went up Upp Wellington and along Inverness...which, by the way, is lame. it should go up james mtn road to Mohawk and then down Fennel to Up. James.


No it interchanges into the "35 College" at the end of its route and vice versa, just like Up.Wentworth and Up.Wellington.

[hamiltonguy]

No it interchanges into the "35 College" at the end of its route and vice versa, just like Up.Wentworth and Up.Wellington.

No it doesn't. The 27 continues to the Mountain Transit Centre.

The 35 loops East from West 5th along stone church to upper james
and then south to Rymal then west to Garth terminating at St. Elizabeths. Then North along Garth to Limeridge and then East on Limeridge to West 5th again.

[raisethehammer]

here it is from the HSR website:

https://www.myhamilton.ca/NR/rdonlyres/10349139-23D4-409A-B396-1B36C71D38EB/0/SE07Route27.pdf

I wonder if they'll change this route to serve the college.
Seems like a waste of time to come up the Jolley Cut, plus the few times I've ridden the 27 I couldn't stand the long wait at Inverness/Up James trying to make that left turn. No bus should have to do that without a transit signal.
One of the routes would need to serve the north part of Up James and Inverness neighbourhood though....maybe we're going to see a new express route. Perhaps #27 will stay as it is and the new artics will be used for a new A-Line route.

[SteelTown]

Good news!

From the sounds of it this will be a new route for the buses, A-Line.

Though I wonder if they'll cut any frequency on 35 and 27 with the addition of the A-Line. Nah, probably not as the A-Line is an express bus, with limited stops like the B-Line.

I believe in 2008 Mohawk College is suppose to get a new transit terminal, it's only been planned and delayed for nearly 4 years now.

[LikeHamilton]

Since the B-line is called the Bee Line.....shouldn't the A-Line be called the Eh Line?

[SteelTown]

The city actually changed the name from Bee Line to B-Line recently, suppose to be a stepping stone to BRT.