[raisethehammer]

please don't get us started on MEC again.... I'll still make the trip to TO once in a while when I need something. I REFUSE to spend a dollar of my money in some big box store in Burlington. They call themselves 'green', 'environmental' blah blah blah...not around here.

[ikerrin]

please don't get us started on MEC again.... I'll still make the trip to TO once in a while when I need something. I REFUSE to spend a dollar of my money in some big box store in Burlington. They call themselves 'green', 'environmental' blah blah blah...not around here.

OK, stop kidding around. There is no way that MEC is building a big box store in Burlington. April fools day isn't till Tuesday!

[flar]

It's no joke ikerrin. MEC chose a suburban Burlington location over a Hamilton location.

[ikerrin]

Wow, what next? An exclusive marketing deal with Wallmart? Its a sad day when MEC moves to suburbia. My consolations!!!

[coalminecanary]

ikerrin, please visit http://mecinhamilton.neenerneet.net to read all about it. And please let MEC know how you feel about their location decision.

[SteelTown]

Education Square plans lacks detail: KPMG
April 15, 2008
The Hamilton Spectator

A consultant has told the Hamilton-Wentworth District School Board that a City of Hamilton plan for Education Square lacks sufficient detail to approve.

The board hired KPMG to look at city plans for redevelopment of King and Bay, in hope that the board would stay downtown in a joint Education Square with McMaster and city public health, instead of moving the board headquarters to the Mountain.

KPMG said an "Initial review of the City's Business Plan indicates it is very light in detail and does not provide sufficient information to allow for an approval in concept at this time."

KPMG tells the board to find details on corporate structure, zoning and density, project management and timing, revenues to the board, the shared parking facility, finance and building and costs. The board hoped to see business plans and alternate plans for the Mountain this month, but will have to wait till May.

[realcity]

^ this is a joke you realize? The Board hires KMPG to 'kill' the downtown Education Sq option. Perhaps it was 'lacking the details', details which are usually hashed-out after and expression of interest. Did the City and McMaster know the Board was hiring KMPG to review it? I doubt it, if they wanted more details I'm sure they could've contacted the City. Has anyone visited the Board of Ed website?.... their own options were lacking more detail then the TCA proposal. But that's okay because they want a sprawling campus in the middle of sea of ashpalt surrounded by useless, token, park space on the mountain.

Now the Board of Ed is going back to drawing board on the Jerome location, presumably in a effort to make it appear better then staying downtown.

Can Mayor Fred just come forward and tell the Board "give up on the Jerome site, you're not leaving downtown".


It's the secret agenda revealing itself again
http://www.raisethehammer.org/index.asp?issue=2008/02/14

[hamiltonguy]

^ this is a joke you realize? The Board hires KMPG to 'kill' the downtown Education Sq option. Perhaps it was 'lacking the details', details which are usually hashed-out after and expression of interest. Did the City and McMaster know the Board was hiring KMPG to review it? I doubt it, if they wanted more details I'm sure they could've contacted the City. Has anyone visited the Board of Ed website?.... their own options were lacking more detail then the TCA proposal. But that's okay because they want a sprawling campus in the middle of sea of ashpalt surrounded by useless, token, park space on the mountain.

Now the Board of Ed is going back to drawing board on the Jerome location, presumably in a effort to make it appear better then staying downtown.

Can Mayor Fred just come forward and tell the Board "give up on the Jerome site, you're not leaving downtown".


It's the secret agenda revealing itself again
http://www.raisethehammer.org/index.asp?issue=2008/02/14

The Consultant didn't say don't do it. They said get these details. But I do agree, certain members of the board are determined to move.

[realcity]

No they didn't but you can see what the Board is up to... and KMPG has a rep to uphold. However..... you can easily direct them to arrive at a decision based on the INFO YOU PROVIDE THEM....

You can hand them a square peg and ask them is this a square peg? then hand them two holes -- one square one round -- and ask them to adise you to which hole would better suit the square peg. In other words... if the Board wants to merely put this down to nickels and dimes, it would be a simple case to say "Sell off the downtown land -- more higher prices -- and move to land -- we already own in the suburbs -- and built our headquarters that would house everyone, including our valuable blue vans.

[the dude]

i am in complete agreeance. the board does NOT want to stay downtown. if they did, they'd have made arrangements already. they will continue to fight this to the bitter end - the city's going to have to be persistent or lose.

as a teacher, or perhaps because i'm a teacher, i have numerous issues with the board, both teaching and non-teaching related. outside the educational realm, they act purely as real estate speculators. their agenda is to promote sprawl and to hollow out the core of our city - so many inner-city schools have been closed in recent years and so little investment has been made in our older downtown schools. they just don't care and it's hard to negotiate with people who don't give a damn. the struggle continues.

[SteelTown]

Renewal boss rejects Ed Centre plan

Fate awaits facts on 'very light' city proposal

By Richard Leitner
News
Apr 18, 2008

The director of the city's downtown renewal division is rejecting criticisms that a proposal to redevelop the downtown Hamilton Education Centre is too shy on details to judge its merits.

Ron Marini said he met this week with Hamilton-Wentworth District School Board consultants to clarify outstanding issues identified in a report to trustees.

"We had a meeting of the minds, if you will," he said. "Now I understand some of the comments in the context they were using them."

Consultant KPMG's initial review of the city's business plan for the massive redevelopment found "it is very light in detail and does not provide sufficient information to allow for approval in concept at this time."

The firm identified eight issues needing more information, including the project's corporate structure, partners, timing, zoning and density, construction costs, parking and financial benefits to the board.

Mr. Marini said he's now clarified that concerns about density relate to the proposed intensity of land use at the Education Centre site, located at the northeast corner of Main and Bay streets.

The plan calls for the 41-year-old landmark to be demolished to make way for a McMaster University family medicine centre, two hotels and new headquarters for both the board and city health department.

The city estimates its investment will be more than $41 million, including $3.3 million in enterprise-zone tax incentives that would be assigned to the board by the hotel owners.

It also projects the board will gain a further $6.75 million by selling land it doesn't need for its portion of the development.

Those revenues and possible provincial tax breaks could cut the net cost of a new 75,000-square-foot headquarters building to as little as $4.5 million, according to the business plan.

If the province doesn't kick in, the price tag would rise to $5.7 million.

"It's downtown. It's supposed to be intense. That's where you build buildings of mass and buildings of substance," Mr. Marini said.

"I don't agree that our report was light," he said. "We're producing a fundamentally different type of financial arrangement to assist them in making that decision (to go for the plan)."

As part of its contribution, the city is offering to cover the estimated $17.8-million cost of an underground parking garage for 792 vehicles. Based on existing rates, spaces would be rented for $108 per month or $7.50 per day.

But the city has yet to name the potential investors who would build the two hotels, projected to provide about 450 hotel rooms and cost $65 million.

"We've been talking to actual developers. That's all I can tell you," Mr. Marini said when asked if there may be fears the hotels and tax incentives won't materialize.

"We have people there who've said they would go forward," he said. "There's a lot of room for hotel growth in this city."

The city's redevelopment plan is one of two options trustees are considering after deliberations that began last October.

The other one would see the board sell the entire Education Centre site -- estimated to be worth $8.25 million by the city -- and build new headquarters at Jerome Park on the West Mountain.

That plan, which also includes a training and maintenance centre, is estimated to cost $33 million.

Options to preserve the centre have been rejected as too expensive despite citizen support at the lone meeting for public input. In a brief presentation to trustees, Lucy Veerman, the board's interim superintendent of business and treasurer, said staff expect to present a report on the two remaining options next month.

[DC83]

The schoolboard is being rediculous! They're acting like LIUNA on this one... nit-picking on everything, "Well we need space for 793 pkng spots... sorry, Jerome Site it is!"

Let's all email the trustees (not just our own) and remind them of the benefits of remaining downtown, especially with the RT line that will most likely stop right infront of their office!

Trustee Contacts: http://www.hwdsb.on.ca/about_us/trustees/index.aspx

[SteelTown]

Education centre decision set for May 21

May 12, 2008
The Hamilton Spectator

After months of debate and delay, Hamilton's public school board will hold a special meeting May 21 so trustees can decide where to build a new education centre.

The decision date has repeatedly changed as new ideas arrived and information trickled in. It had been expected today but will instead be made May 21 starting at 6:30 p.m.

After scrapping renovation of the downtown offices as an option, trustees told staff to present a business plan.

The two final options were: A move to a Mountain site while maintaining a downtown presence, or be part of a city-proposed Education Square on the redeveloped block at Main and Bay streets.

Trustees will vote on one plan preferred by staff.

Education Square would include a McMaster University medical centre, city public health, hotels and the board.

[raisethehammer]

is it just me, or am I the only one expecting this decision to be botched as well as provide some laughable material to be reprinted from the meeting as they explain away their love affair with mega-parking lots??

[SteelTown]

Either plan will have a downtown presence. Though I rather have the School Board go along with the city proposed plan.

[DC83]

I don't get the "Downtown Presence"? If they move to the mountain, how will they maintain a Downtown 'presence'?

[SteelTown]

A "storefront" presence as they call it. Probably a front desk with at most 20 office space.

[flar]

It's wouldn't be much of a downtown presence and would have little spinoff benefit to downtown because the vast majority of the workers would be on the mountain.

I'm writing my trustee again for sure. They need to be downtown along an LRT route. Then maybe they wouldn't need such a big parking lot.

[SteelTown]

The thing is the City is going to pay for the underground parking. So what's the hold up?

[coalminecanary]

Because they made up their minds at the very start so they are trying to force reality into their desires.

Probably the people with the loudest mouths live closer to the jerome site, and they don't want to come all the way downtown to work.

[JT Jacobs]

A "storefront" presence as they call it. Probably a front desk with at most 20 office space.

A booth in Jackson square probably. :hell:

[realcity]

I think like someone already stated, they've made up their minds to move to the mountain and the Education Square concept thru a major wrench into their agenda/plans for the mountain. Based on their own lame options, eveyone of the options was a looser, simply a throw-away option to look like they explored all options and the only good decision is for Jerome Park(ing) lot option.

There are a few decisions that will make or break Hamilton this year. 1. is whether or not the Board of Education of HAMILTON stays downtown. 2. is if the City goes with LRT vs shitbusses. 3. is if Lister (and now King William)/LIUNA invest their own dollars into downtown real estate WITHOUT the help of a government/taxpayer subsidy.

[highwater]

I would add 4) if the OMB allows big box retail on Innovation Park lands.

[realcity]

^ yes that's another one. that would indicate what direction this city is heading.

[SteelTown]

David Braley $15 million towards a stem cell library is now under construction. So money has been flowing. I should know, I work there haha. $10 million is just waiting to be spent for the Family Medicine Centre.

[realcity]

So the Board has delayed the Jerome counter proposal another two weeks.

What's wrong? The mountain concept is still not good enough to justify leaving the core and participating in the best development in decades to come to Hamilton. Maybe they could add more parking and 6 more trees, that'll do it.

[the dude]

i've given up hope for this project. i wish they'd just say no and stop the bullshitting.

incidentally, i'm really surprised with braley's recent rash of donations. he's made his money in auto parts - shouldn't he be bleeding money right about now? the lions can't be generating that much cash.

[raisethehammer]

I've got a friend in an autoparts plant in Hamilton...he says their booming.
The 'Big 3' aren't doing well because they refuse to get with the times. Shocking how Ford is adding shifts now to build the 'Edge' (i think that's what it's called).
Small, fuel efficient and it sells like hotcakes. Who knew??

the other auto companies are rolling along....parts in a great industry to be in right now.

[fastcarsfreedom]

The Big 3 refuse to get with the times? Really...a perfect example of perception being reality. All 3 build fuel efficient cars of comparable quality to those of import brands.

Toyota's supposed commitment to being green is the creation of spin-wizards--I'm amazed that it would be embraced on a site like this which rails against listening to "corporate" messages. This is a company that has felt the need, recently, to introduce ever larger trucks and SUVs into the market, all while being imune from the cries of environmentalists--even though vehicles such as the Sequoia and Tundra are generally less efficient than competitive domestic models.

These arguments are made before we even touch on the issue of job creation and supply chain depth when comparing domestic and foreign-based manufacturers.

It is great that the Hamilton-based parts maker(s) are doing well--here in SW Ontario where we have a large auto parts sector--we are stuggling mightily to survive--let alone thrive.

[BCTed]

The 'Big 3' aren't doing well because they refuse to get with the times. Shocking how Ford is adding shifts now to build the 'Edge' (i think that's what it's called).
Small, fuel efficient and it sells like hotcakes. Who knew??


Obviously you did.

[Millstone]

I've got a friend in an autoparts plant in Hamilton...he says their booming.
The 'Big 3' aren't doing well because they refuse to get with the times. Shocking how Ford is adding shifts now to build the 'Edge' (i think that's what it's called).
Small, fuel efficient and it sells like hotcakes. Who knew??

the other auto companies are rolling along....parts in a great industry to be in right now.

The big 3 aren't doing well because of the unions. They are "with the times" but all the money's going to inefficient labour and pensions.

edit: also, stop hitting enter after every line, it's annoying

[raisethehammer]

The big 3 aren't doing well because of the unions. They are "with the times" but all the money's going to inefficient labour and pensions.

edit: also, stop hitting enter after every line, it's annoying

what are you talking about? I never hit enter. Or is that directed to someone else?

[BCTed]

what are you talking about? I never hit enter. Or is that directed to someone else?

He's directing it squarely at you. Here is another of your many "enter" examples:

A friend of mine was involved in trying to start up a Bible study at Westmount High School a couple of years ago. They asked to use the same meeting room that the Muslim students were using for their prayer times, at a different time of the day.
They were told no, and then they were told that they couldn't bring their Bibles into the classroom.
Thankfully, public pressure prevailed once the story came out that these students were meeting out in the playing field in the rain since they weren't allowed the same treatment as Muslim students.
The school shied away from the pressure and allowed them to use their classroom.

[raisethehammer]

haha...thanks
Mr. Investigator.
I never
hit
enter when
I'm on
this
website.
I
own a
Mac.
Perhaps it
shows
my posts
differently
on your
computers.
Oh ya,
One more
thing
.
.
.
.
Get
a
life.
Lol.

[flar]

This has went on long enough, start talking about the education square.

[realcity]

it's not going away... not yet.

Here's what I think will happen.

Sometime soon the Board will unveil a 'new and improved' mountain location. I don't know what more they will do, but I think the position will highlight affordability and a new mountain high school.

Whatever is in the proposal it will pale in comparision to the TCA proposal even when comparing the costs.

Then I suddenly the Board will find enough space with a small addition to their downtown building. 1. They will consolidate in one building or 2. build a crappy addition to downtown site with some repairs to the existing building.

Revealing this will show all along the entire problem was a concocted in an effort to have more surface parking and a mountain location.

Of course I could be pleasantly surprised and the Board will say "you know this TCA proposal is a wonderful idea, too bad we didn't think of that but we would love to be a part of this beautiful development that meets our needs creates a multi-use, landmark facility downtown and at the same time supports the city that we so proudly serve as public servants."

[drpgq]

Has the education director Spence said anything himself
about the education center? The cynic in me wonders if
he lives in Ancaster and closer to the Jerome site.

[raisethehammer]

he wants the mountain site.

[realcity]

He said paraphrasing "i'm not totally committed to downtown"

he probably lives in Oakville, Kitchener, Caledonia or Burlington like most of the Hamilton decision makers, managers, publishers, etc

[highwater]

He's an import from Toronto. Hamilton's just a step on the old career ladder. My fear is that he wants to make a big splashy change for change's sake (looks good on the old resume), and we'll be living with the consequences of this short-sighted decision for decades to come, long after he's gone on to bigger and better things.

[SteelTown]

Are trustees OK with their HQ in core?

Paul Wilson
The Hamilton Spectator
(May 21, 2008)

In the spring of 1964 city hall vigorously tried to persuade the Hamilton Board of Education to stay downtown.

Tonight, 44 years later, it happens all over again.

At this evening's meeting, the trustees are supposed to decide where their new headquarters will be. Option one -- the south Mountain, in a new building with lots of parking. Option two -- the downtown block where they are now, but in a complex shared with a new McMaster school of family medicine, city public health and two hotels.

To coax the board to stay in the core, city hall has offered an $18-million inducement -- an 800-space underground parking lot.

And a gift was offered too on the night of May 14, 1964.

The board's meeting was proceeding routinely when a letter from city council was read at 8:30 p.m.

It said the city was willing to pay up to $375,000 in land costs if the board agreed to stay downtown.

But in a 10-7 vote, the trustees opted to build on a piece of land the board owned in Westdale.

"Urban renewal is the business of city council," said trustee C.T. Lowe.

"Education is the business of the board of education."

Mayor Vic Copps thought the board would have leaped at the city's offer. "I'm very disappointed. I'm regarding this as part of my education."

He said there might have to be a citywide plebiscite on the matter.

The wrangling lasted a year. It ended on April 8, 1965, when council voted unanimously -- and with full agreement of the board -- to expropriate the block bounded by King, Bay, Main and Park streets for a new education building.

It was to be the first of a series of public buildings in the civic square opposite city hall -- a theatre, an art gallery, a planetarium sponsored by Salada Foods.

We never did get a place to see the wonders of the night sky. And all these years later, the core still needs help.

Keeping the board downtown can absolutely make a difference. There are 250 people working in the education centre now, and the board wants room for 600 in the new building.

A market analysis conducted a few years ago for the Downtown Hamilton BIA showed the average downtown office worker spends $6,600 a year on food, drink, merchandise and services in the core.

That means the board office alone can give downtown an annual boost of $4 million.

And the symbolic value of this city's seat of education remaining in the heart of Hamilton? Priceless.

Everyone knows the rust-coloured highrise at King and James as the Stelco Tower, but by 2004 the struggling steelmaker had finished moving out. And that left the top 10 floors of the tower empty.

So Yale Properties -- owners of the Jackson Square retail and office complex -- shut off the bank of express elevators that run from floors 15 to 24.

But now they're switching them back on. RBC Dominion Securities is in the midst of a $2-million retrofit of the 15th floor.

The investment firm has had about two-thirds of the ninth floor for about a decade, but was looking to expand.

Scott MacKinnon, vice-president and branch manager, says they considered locations in Stoney Creek and Ancaster, as they have clients and staff living in both areas.

"But that's why downtown is perfect. It's in the centre of everything."

RBC will have the 15th floor to itself, with a staff of about 65, great views all around.

The floor will also be home to an expanded private banking centre, which serves clients of high net worth, the kind who never stand in line.

Yale Properties says it has an offer in hand for the soon-to-be-vacated ninth-floor space.

Nearly 20 years ago, Fairweather/Big Steel pulled out of a large store in Jackson Square for a new home around the corner in what was then the Eaton Centre.

Ever since, the Jackson space has been empty. But the boards finally come down in a couple of weeks as a Winnipeg-based retailer takes on the Ontario market.

Hangers Fashion Warehouse has stores across the West, including Regina, Edmonton, Vancouver. The 5,000-square-foot Hamilton store will be No. 22. It will target downtown's female office workers.

"We're quite aggressive with pricing," says Rob Hanslip of Hangers, who's been sent to Ontario to scout new locations.

He says Western Canada now presents two challenges for a discount operation such as Hangers. First, rents are skyrocketing. Second, a booming economy has left many out there so flush that they just don't have to look for bargains anymore.

[SteelTown]

Man I just hope and pray the board makes the right decision tonight. PLEASE!!!!!

[realcity]

The Board will look like morons if they don't take the Mac deal.

Good news on RBC Securities.

[raisethehammer]

so, the board has always been run by folks looking to bail from downtown eh?
big surprise.
I hope Dave Braley publicly scolds them and warns them of potentially driving away philanthropist investment by abandoning their city.

[drpgq]

Is there anything the city could do to dissuade the board from moving up the mountain? Threaten to cause as many delays as possible? Have a councilor
denounce Spence as a megalomanical carpetbagger only out for his own career
rather than thinking for Hamilton? Having grown up on the mountain and gone to
Westmount, the Jerome site seems ridiculous, unless you are coming from
Ancaster or the West Mountain and want a shorter drive.

[SteelTown]

The City has done all it can to keep the School Board in the core, $18 million for parking garage. That's very generous, look at Burlington being super tight on spending $10 million for a University campus.

It's time for our local MPPs to pressure the Education Minister and the Premier to force the School Board to stay in the core, just point out the "Places to Work" policy. The Education Minister could say that they'll refuse to cover the cost of a new headquarter unless it's located in the core.

[ryan_mcgreal]

Talk about chasing past performers. All the evidence is that the great demographic shift to the suburbs is winding down and the pendulum is swinging the other way:

* Boomers are moving back into the city as they get older and want to be closer to amenities and to drive less.
* Young people are more interested in being connected socially than in suburban privacy and seclusion.
* Families are starting to worry about the downside of sprawl: auto dependence, children who can't get around under their own power, long commutes, etc.
* Families also prefer smaller community schools, which are superior to large suburban factory schools by any number of measures: graduation rate, disciplinary issues, average grades, etc.
* Energy prices are rising steadily, making auto-dependent developments less viable over time.
* Environmental awareness is increasing to the point where people want to be able to make more sustainable choices.
* Cities that have already committed to re-urbanization are thriving, with the strongest growth rates, best economic opportunities, and highest levels of resident satisfaction.

Does none of this factor into the Board's calculations?

[flar]

I just emailed all the trustees, it's never too late.

http://www.hwdsb.on.ca/about_us/trustees/index.aspx

[SteelTown]

I sent them all an email as well, apparently Karen Turkstra, Trustee for Wards 14 and 15 will be away. One less suburban voter present.

[SteelTown]

ohh I got a supporter already (Jessica Brennan from Ward 13 - Dundas (Vice-Chair of the Board))......

"Andrew,

Thanks so much for your email. Given what I have read and the discussions I have had, it is my intention to vote in favour of the downtown proposal. Of course, other informations may present themselves this evening but that is definitely the way I am leaning. Thanks for your interest. JB."

[highwater]

I did as well, and used some of Ryan's talking points (credited);) . Probably too late though.

[northender98]

WOOO HOOOO!!! Best news for downtown in a long while!!!!

Education centre to stay downtown
Ken Mann
5/22/2008

The city's public school board has given approval to plans for the redevelopment of the current education centre site at Main and Bay.

The partnership calls for the construction of a new downtown education centre, offices housing the City of Hamilton's public health department and McMaster's faculty of family medicine.

That would include clinics and a training centre for family doctors.

The goal is to complete the project by 2011.

The project's funding requires Ministry of Education approval.

The decision puts an end to recent speculation that the education centre might move out of the city core.


I was so excited upon seeing this on the 900 chml site this morning that I couldn't wait to be the first to post. I am glad that right choice of location was made--common sense has prevailed.
Northender

[northender98]

Hey there,
After my initial excitement started wearing off I started thinking that the only drawback to this project is losing the current board building. This is a situtation where I can't understand why other nearby empty lots were not chosen as locations, the parking lot on the south west side of Main and Bay seems to be about the same size. Anyway, is it realistic to take the building down carefully (I know the balfour was supposed to go down like that--maybe demolition crews don't know that word) and moved to another location. I know in my neighbourhood we are waiting for a new health clinic to be built--is it possible for the facade of the current education building be the outside shell of this new clinic planned for the neighbourhood. As I am asking I just remembered that they will be demoliting part of an old school to make way for the clinic so if they are not thinking of renovating the school this kind of option I am bringing forward will probably not be considered. Any thoughts?

All this being said I am still very excited about the difference this project will make to the downtown.
Northender

[SteelTown]

:banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana:

Trustees seal deal for offices downtown

May 22, 2008
Rob Faulkner
The Hamilton Spectator
(May 22, 2008)
The board is staying downtown.

The Hamilton-Wentworth District School Board has voted to pursue a two-tower block redevelopment project in the core with McMaster University and the city's public health department.

Last night, trustees approved a concept plan for the block at Main, Bay and King, telling staff to subdivide and get rezoning for 100 Main St. W., forge agreements with Mac and city public health, and obtain Ministry of Education approval.

The plan will cost the HWDSB $57.5 million, including a new Bay and King headquarters, and a second training and maintenance centre at one of three possible Mountain sites.

"It's a very big deal for the board," said board chair Judith Bishop, noting the irony that back in 1964 the board refused the city's offer to move its offices downtown. One trustee claimed "urban renewal is the business of city council."

Bishop says times have changed: "We are a major player in this city."

It's a milestone after 14 months of debate, which began as board staff reported a crisis in non-school space: seven administrative buildings scattered across the city, including 100 Main St. W., together needed $28 million in repairs. Staff said "building failure" loomed.

The saga has seen options come and go. Businessman and philanthropist David Braley's $10-million donation to McMaster's medical school kick-started action.

The city presented an Education Square plan to keep the board downtown. Citizens mounted opposition to a move to the Mountain that, at times, seemed a sure thing.

Bishop said the city's Education Square presentation in January showed the board new possibilities. The board tweaked that plan, to play a more active role in running the project.

Superintendent of business Don Grant said that, rather than let another partner dictate terms, the control lets trustees discuss details as they did last night, about windows, roof design and retail amenities to come.

John Kelton, the university's dean of health sciences, said it was crucial for Mac that a decision be made before summer. Mac needs a place to train new doctors, or they will go elsewhere.

"We think this is excellent news," Kelton said after the meeting.

The board plans to build a new headquarters on King, between the Art Gallery of Hamilton and the future McMaster family medicine centre, at King and Bay. Two towers would join at the base, with shared elevators, washrooms, stairwells and more. Public health would lease space from the board.

Braley's original idea was a Mac health centre at Main and Bay, a high profile corner for traffic entering the core. Kelton said the shift to King and Bay is not significant.

"Quite honestly, David will always speak for himself, but, when we briefed him about this a couple of weeks ago, he said, 'That sounds like a good place for it,' " Kelton said.

The board estimates its capital costs in the project will be $57.5 million -- $33.4 million for a corporate centre downtown and $24.1 million for a support centre elsewhere.

Mac and the HWDSB would pay capital costs of their own buildings. Rental fees from city public health would finance their share of additional building space in the HWDSB tower.

HWDSB plans to finance its portion by the sale of surplus sites ($17 million), through noninstructional capital reserves ($2 million), and through long-term debentures ($38.5 million), pending provincial approval.

Redevelopment would occur in two phases. Phase one includes a five-storey underground parking facility, a building for the board and city public health, a building for Mac, and shared, joint space.

Because these would be on the board's current parking lot, the current board centre could stay open amid construction, saving $2 million in relocation fees. Grant also said selling off land at Main and Bay could bring the board more money.

Phase 1 would be done by fall 2011. Underground parking construction would start by January 2009.

Phase 2 would see demolition of the current board centre and sale of unused property along Main for private use.

The HWDSB has letters of support from Mac president Peter George, and Mayor Fred Eisenberger. Eisenberger said he still sees a significant city contribution to the underground parking costs; the Education Square plan suggested the city pay $18 million toward the parking.

"It's new construction downtown, and that's exciting," said Eisenberger, who originally hoped that Main and Bay would be used to create a civic square with City Hall.

TIMELINE

March 2007

Board staff report on looming crisis for non-instructional space. The board must decide whether to fix, expand or demolish the 97,000-square-foot downtown building. It needs a new roof and can't fit non-teaching staff scattered across the city at six other sites. Staff are told to develop a concept plan.

Summer 2007

100 Main St. W. emerges as Mac's preferred site for what may become a $100-million health centre, funded in part by David Braley's donation to its medical school.

October 2007

Facing criticism for possibly leaving downtown, education director Chris Spence raises the idea the board move its headquarters to the Mountain, but have a storefront presence in a new Mac health centre at Main and Bay.

Talks start on the board's noninstructional space dilemma. Options are: Renovate the centre and six other administration buildings ($44 million); build a new headquarters at 100 Main and a training centre elsewhere ($55 million); or build one new $33-million building, with a site on the Mountain available.

November 2007

Staff told to explore more ways to keep the education centre downtown. Dec. 10, 2007, is mentioned as decision day.

December 2007

Board asks staff to make a business case for a one-building option for a new education centre, leaving the door open for input from public delegations. Trustee lets slip that staff prefer "the $33-million option" for a new building on the Mountain.

January 2008

Board axes renovation option for centre downtown, leaving Option 1 as a $33-million move to the Jerome site on the Mountain. Option 2 as the Education Square redevelopment of the entire block where the board now sits.

The Education Square is a city proposal for a block bounded by King, Main and Bay with three public buildings on that site -- the board, a new McMaster University family medicine clinic, city public health -- plus two private hotels.

May 21, 2008

Board unanimously OKs a plan to keep its headquarters downtown, in a joint centre with McMaster's family medicine centre and city public health. A second board training and maintenance centre will likely be built at one of three possible Mountain sites.

[SteelTown]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v384/Aallen396/schoolboard-1.jpg

[raisethehammer]

wow...I'm stunned. Great job people. Public pressure played a HUGE role in this.

Of course, now I'm worried about phase 2. It looks like the whole project shifted to King St with the 2 hotels left for Main (if they happen).
Also, I'm not sure I want the board deciding on windows/design etc..... based on everything else they've built in recent years.

[SteelTown]

Perhaps expand Commonwealth Square and have one of the hotel at the corner of Main and Bay.

It'll be a tight squeeze for three three departments on that current parking lot. 8 months until construction!

[raisethehammer]

I like the plan as shown above, shifted over to King. I'm just worried (always have been) about phase 2.

[SteelTown]

I believe it's a Westin chain that's interested.

[DC83]

Yay?

It's a bitter-sweet victory for me... they're pretty much just shifting from one lot to another, creating another abandoned lot. Hopefully LRT will make Main & Bay that much more attractive to potential investors.

Most important thing: Keeping all 250-or-so employees Downtown, as well as adding the additional 350(or-so) people w/ the Mac Ctr & other HWDSB sites.

[raisethehammer]

actually, if both phases happen there won't be an empty lot. Unless they demolish the School Board without building a hotel in it's place.

Can anyone load the colour rendering here now on the Spec website?

[SteelTown]

http://media.hamiltonspectator.com/images/aa/54/de3452584251aa2d0e59fc4e7b4c.jpeg

[raisethehammer]

no way to enlarge that bad-boy??
thanks.

[SteelTown]

When I go home perhaps. I like the other design, modern design. Put the other design on to this plan instead.

The current plan looks like a McMaster campus building. I think I see water fountains along King on the sidewalk.

[raisethehammer]

yea, the other ones that were all glass were nicer....they always want to add in these ugly concete/brick walls when they do institutional buildings.

[SteelTown]

You know I think the building at King and Bay is the EXTACT copy of the conceptual plan for the MDCL campus building. I kept thinking that I've seen this design before.

Well the drawing above isn't the actual design, I'm sure they'll be some changes and I hope the previous architect will do the design.

[SteelTown]

McMaster and Hamilton school board discuss downtown partnership

May 22, 2008

McMaster University and the Hamilton-Wentworth District School Board plan to work with the City of Hamilton towards construction of a shared facility on the school board's current downtown headquarters site.

Last night school board trustees approved unanimously the concept of a partnership to bring a Family Health and Education Centre to Hamilton's downtown core.

In a letter of support, McMaster President Peter George said the University is pleased to explore the opportunity.

"The partnership would bring together two of the city's leading institutions and their missions to provide the very best learning opportunities, community services and partnerships," he said.

The school board, McMaster and Hamilton Public Health will plan construction of a shared facility on a portion of the Education Centre's current site between King and Main streets along Bay Street.

For the past year, McMaster has been examining opportunities to build a Family Health Centre which will combine a large primary care and learning centre with complementary research groups and related commercial activities.

"We've always had a clear vision for a Downtown Family Health Centre and the many benefits it will bring to patients, downtown revitalization and the overall city," said John Kelton, dean and vice-president of McMaster's Faculty of Health Sciences.

"Working together with the Hamilton-Wentworth District School Board significantly enhances that vision and the value that it brings to Hamilton. We look forward to our ongoing discussions with both the school board and the city to find ways to make the dream a reality."

McMaster's Downtown Family Health Centre would establish one of the largest centres for primary care in Canada with more than 75,000 patient visits a year.

"This partnership is a home-run for downtown Hamilton," said Mayor Fred Eisenberger. "This is the ideal opportunity to maintain the school board's presence in the core while developing a new facility that will create a perfect synergy between public health and McMaster University and, at the same time, improve health care for the people of Hamilton and revitalize the downtown."

Judith Bishop, chair of the city's school board, said the trustees are excited about the synergies the partnership could create.

"We believe that the business case we're proposing addresses the needs of all parties involved," she said. "As trustees, we knew that we wanted to maintain a meaningful presence in the downtown core and I believe this decision solidifies our continued commitment to helping renew the vibrancy of downtown Hamilton."

[matt602]

So... thats the major decision then? No mountain complex any more?

[SteelTown]

No mountain office complex!

[matt602]

Awesome. This is a very good day for Hamilton.

[flar]

But still a (probable) mountain training and maintenance facility.

[the dude]

stunned but very pleased.

[SteelTown]

Don't care if the traning and maintenance facility is up on the Mountain.

Just care that the office workers will be staying in the core. Should be about 200 school board workers by 2011.

[matt602]

You mean 200 additional, right?

[SteelTown]

Think it's about 160 additional, not sure though.

[realcity]

This is one decision that I'm pleasantly surprised about. And I'm happy that I was wrong on this.

The interesting aspect is that the Board was supposed to unveil a new revised Mountain location. How long have they known that the Jerome option was toast? Why did they delay two weeks only to come back with "YES, we like the downtown TCA proposal"? anyway I'm glad they chose it, now stay out of the architect's hair and let them design, you 'trustees' continue serving the public -- you're not architects.

[matt602]

I hope the current rendering gets altered before the shovels hit the ground.

[realcity]

Why does the training facility need to be on the mountain? WTF? Part of teachers' training is learning how to drive to a suburban location?

[DC83]

The maintenance bldg should be somewhere with lots of room, so a mountain centre is ok w/ me. I don't understand why the training centre would be so far from the 'head office' tho?

I'm most surprised about the unanimous decision. How did they convince those who were dead-set against downtown? I wasn't very confident at all w/ the email responses (tho few) I got. Even Board Chair Judith Bishop seemed to not like the idea.

Well it doesn't matter now... let's get digging! haha

[realcity]

it does look a lot different then this.
http://www.raisethehammer.org/images/hec_rendering_02.jpg
http://www.raisethehammer.org/images/hec_rendering_01.jpg
http://www.raisethehammer.org/images/hec_rendering_03.jpg

[realcity]

Judith Bishop and Chris Spence were against downtown.

[SteelTown]

I suspect the board members got a call from Queen’s Park and forced them to re-evaluate the downtown proposal. If you read the article it mentions approval from the Education Minister, not once but twice.

[DC83]

^^ looks like they squeezed the two bldgs along Bay St together for the new render. I hope it reflects the 'original' render more-so than this new one. But as Steeltown pointed out, it's basically a model this particular firm uses to show the potential of a project. I'm betting it'll look a lot better than the one released today.

if Bishop & Spence were against, why'd they end up voting for? I believe Bishop is the Ward 1 Trustee which is downtown. wtf!? haha

[realcity]

haha the Board Trustees needed to be threatened with a detention if they decided to be idiots and move to the mountain.

"I will not ever move to the Mountain"
"I will not ever move to the Mountain"
"I will not ever move to the Mountain"
"I will not ever move to the Mountain"
"I will not ever move to the Mountain"
"I will not ever move to the Mountain"
"I will not ever move to the Mountain"

[flar]

This link has bigger renderings of the project:

http://www.hwdsb.on.ca/media_desk/media_releases/ed_centre/pdfs/renderings.pdf



The business plan:

http://www.hwdsb.on.ca/media_desk/media_releases/ed_centre/pdfs/project_business_plan.pdf

[SteelTown]

Ah ha! So there was water fountains on the sidewalks along King.

I'll post the larger image here in a bit.

[raisethehammer]

The Ventin Group is the architect....please go back to TCA.

[SteelTown]

And it is just a concept not an actual rendering, just a vision.

[DC83]

The Ventin Group is the architect....please go back to TCA.

I believe Ventin Group is their generic architects, they also designed the new Queen Vic for the HWDSB... but I still can't find a rendering for that school.

[SteelTown]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v174/Appster/schoolboard.png

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v174/Appster/schoolboard1.jpg

[FairHamilton]

I don't understand why the training centre would be so far from the 'head office' tho?

Because many teachers are notoriously cheap, and would object to having to pay for parking downtown. A friend's dad was a principal who after 'dutch treat' lunches with his teachers would have to audit the bill and what people contributed because he was sick of having to kick in extra to cover the tip all the time.

My apologies to any non-cheap teachers on the board :).

[matt602]

Actually that rendering looks pretty nice in the large version. I really like how it seems to embrace it's King St. frontage.

[fastcarsfreedom]

Great news...I am so impressed/relieved that these jobs and this important civic function will not only remain downtown--but will expand it's presence. The existing Board HQ building is a unique architectural jewel--regrettably to be lost. I know there are those that will disagree with me--but with City Hall in a state of limbo and the pending demolition of the Board of Ed--we're seeing the dismantling (to an extent) of the original civic centre plan. Awaiting word on City Hall next...

[highwater]

Judith Bishop and Chris Spence were against downtown.

Where did you hear that about Judith Bishop? I've seen her at a couple of meetings recently and that's not the impression I got from her.

[highwater]

downtown[/B]. wtf!? haha

Chris Spence is the top bureaucrat and doesn't get a vote, although I'm sure he has a great deal of influence. My impression is that it was board staff pushing the Jerome option with the trustees preferring the downtown.

[highwater]

Great news...I am so impressed/relieved that these jobs and this important civic function will not only remain downtown--but will expand it's presence. The existing Board HQ building is a unique architectural jewel--regrettably to be lost. I know there are those that will disagree with me--but with City Hall in a state of limbo and the pending demolition of the Board of Ed--we're seeing the dismantling (to an extent) of the original civic centre plan. Awaiting word on City Hall next...

You won't get any disagreement from me. I'm also saddened to see the original building go, especially since it was built with expansion in mind. I believe the foundations for a second tower to the north (now a parking lot) were laid at the time of construction. Now it will all go to landfill. This kind of planning is not sustainable. It's time we started applying the three R's to buildings. Still, losing the board to the mountain would have been worse

[SteelTown]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v174/Appster/schoolboard2.jpg

[raisethehammer]

hey look...they're designing it just like all their idiot schools with that stupid drop-off thing out front. This is downtown morons, not Limeridge Mall.

[hamiltonguy]

hey look...they're designing it just like all their idiot schools with that stupid drop-off thing out front. This is downtown morons, not Limeridge Mall.

I don't really see the problem with the Drop off zones since there are going to be doctors offices, and many people get rides.

Maybe they need two though.

[raisethehammer]

now the interesting thing about shifting everything to King St means the 'future development' area is where the current school board building stands.
Perhaps we'll get the best of both worlds...new Ed Centre AND save the old school board centre.
I know, I know....I'm dreaming, but hey, they had better not knock it down before having an actual PLAN to build something new.