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raisethehammer
Nov 23, 2007, 1:31 PM
I'd like a discussion here with your ideas for Jackson Square. Feel free to dream big, but let's also provide some simple ideas that they should implement in the short term to help turn that complex around.
I see 3 main components to Jackson Square - the interior, the street frontage and the rooftop.
Recently my wife and I chatted about the differences between Jackson Sq and Limeridge Mall.
I had no clue (since I'm out of touch with malls these days) but she said she enjoys Limeridge because they have carts you can use as child seats while you shop. Also, they have great baby changing areas. Most guys wouldn't think of things like this, but they are a big deal. Other than the food court, I'm not even aware of any other bathrooms at ground level in Jackson.
The mix of stores obviously is an issue, yet they already have some great draws to build off of - Denningers, the Market, Library etc....
let's hear your ideas to bring the bustle back to the Square.

SteelTown
Nov 23, 2007, 1:51 PM
Kinda pointless to draw up ideas for Jackson Square as long Yale owns the mall. If they can't make money then just sell the mall I'm sure someone will buy it and redevelop it.

Obviously the cement and brick walls needs to come down. Personally I would get rid of the rooftop and just install skylights to brigthen up the mall, the rooftop isn't used that much. I like to see a fake streetscape design inside Jackson and during the summer open up the skylight.

DC83
Nov 23, 2007, 2:34 PM
I hate demolition (as most of you know), but I say tear it down, bring the park (currently on the roof) to street level.
Move all stores to City Ctr, smaller indy shops could open up along James or King William or Gore Park.

This has been my dream for YEARS!

fastcarsfreedom
Nov 23, 2007, 3:56 PM
Dreaming big means tearing down Jackson Square--hmmm--by my calculation this would mean--Stelco Tower, Thompson Building, Standard Life Center--that would be quite a gap but would quickly create a tight office market downtown.

Jackson Square has potential to work. As I just posted in another thread--my folks' took us there shopping every Saturday on trips that always included Eaton's, the market, the library, Dennigers, National Bakery (remember that awesome place?) and any number of other stops. The place up the late 1980s was absolutely THRIVING. I can remember sitting eating pizza in the Sbarro in Phase IV and seeing the mall teeming with people--vacant stores were extremely rare--and yes, all this was happening well after Lime Ridge opened (1983).

Certainly the person who mentioned Yale is spot-on--I've ranted in this space frequently about Yale. The make no apparent effort at all when it comes to "remerchandising" space when it becomes vacant--during the recession of the early 90s and subsequent difficult times downtown they made absolutely no effort to work with or negotiate with tenants--they just let the space fall vacant and then walled off most of Phase IV in an effort to get a break on their taxes. There are flashes of brilliance--they did a nice job when they built the new food court--and they put it in a logical spot--but by the same token they've let the former food court space go to seed (in that brillant two-level space outside the market--so much potential).

My vote on redevelopment would be a cross between logical/simple and dreaming big. The place needs a fairly extensive reworking of it's interior, decor and lighting. I would suggest some of the space could be reworked to create a simpler interior floor plan--perhaps with larger stores and wider corridors. No question that they King Street streetwall (and perhaps part of Bay Street) could easily be pulled out--and larger footprint stores with dual interior/exterior access could locate along here. The King/James entrance should be rebuilt in a more dramatic fashion. More than anything else Yale should be on a full-court press to bring anyone and everyone down there to lease space--they should be at every retail trade show--they should be producing videos and wining/dining potential tenants--for office and retail. They should have a damn website. The previously discussed need for a supermarket may work perfectly within Jackson Square's footprint.

The Plaza level (the roof if you will) has a ton of potential--but I wonder how many people even know that it's up there. There are thousands of white collars working in the towers all week--what are some incentives that could draw them down to the Plaza level now and then?

The other major piece of the pie would be to get people LIVING on that block--remember that the original plan called for residential towers where Copps was built. A start might be the unused Bank of Montreal Pavillion--wouldn't be a ton of living spaces--but they'd be in a pretty cool spot. That space might work well for retail (Indigo?) or a small hotel space. Residential Towers could rise elsewhere on the block with some more significant work.

raisethehammer
Nov 23, 2007, 4:05 PM
I'd like to see lofts in the old Bank of Montreal building.
I'd like to see a large condo tower built where the Family Fitness currently is. It's only one-storey, easy to tear down. Family Fitness could relocate into the ground floor.
A grocery store would be awesome, especially close to the Farmers Market...maybe in the ground floor of my new condo tower??
They seem to have room in there for larger stores - Winners, Home Sense etc.... places like Druxys and McDonalds should have attractive, flowering patios outside. honestly, I think they could really do something great even with the current building...An indigo could be built over the PAMs at King/James entrance. It's dead space right above PAM's.

matt602
Nov 23, 2007, 4:31 PM
An immediate step which seems to be under construction right now is improving the space around the Farmers Market. I mentioned this in the Rumour Mill, currently all the space between the new food court and the old one is empty and the walls have been tore out. Theres tarp up and they seem to be doing something with it but I can't tell the exact plans.

I think what needs to be done here is ripping out the entire second level above the food court aside from directly above the existing restaurants (so basically ripping out where the Asian Mart and Sushi place was) and creating a dramatic 2 story entry to the Farmers market. Lots of glass to open the Farmers Market into the mall, with 2 or 3 restaurants up beside it above the existing ones. I have several different variations of this plan in my head actually, but all of them would incorporate a 2 story entry to the Farmers Market.

the dude
Nov 23, 2007, 9:35 PM
there are many things that could be done to help jackson sqare. that said, like dc83 i've long fantasized about taking a sledge hammer to it. my plans are extreme and won't happen because it would cost too much and upset too many people. it would basically involve razing everything on that property. not gonna happen.

as previously mentioned, incorporating the market into the former food court is a good start. also, open everything to the street; add condos; redesign king-james entrance and so on. too bad it ain't gonna happen. yale seems to have a good hate on for this town. weird and unfortunate.

the same things could be said for HCC. i'm sure housing or a hotel could be added without much effort. how about a grocery store on the main level? there are so many ways these properties could be improved. with some luck we might see some of these things happen.

realcity
Jan 9, 2008, 3:06 PM
I don't hate JSq. I like the rooftop when it's used. The view is awesome, it feels not like Hamilton. More events on the roof

OR

Build a residential tower(s) from the roof. A couple 25 towers. Imagine living there and at just outside your lobby is the rooftop, (with actual people hanging out because of the residents) or take the elevator one more level down to be inside JSq.

"Hey I'm just heading out to AGH for a while do you need me to pick up anything?"

Does anyone remember when JSq was open all night? Just the stores closed up, I worked there in 1989/90 and remember that.

raisethehammer
Jan 9, 2008, 3:24 PM
yup...I remember that.
it's brutal now late at night walking around trying to find which doors are open.
TONS could be done to improve JS but Yale either doesn't want to, or doesn't feel that they'd make enough on their investment.
Lofts in old BMO pavillion, apartment tower on top of Family Fitness, open streetwalls to sidewalk with more patios. attract some larger format stores by using the empty space - Winners, Home Sense, Canadian Tire etc....

Liason College moves in next month, so hopefully they do a decent job on the reno there.

the dude
Jan 9, 2008, 9:57 PM
i've always disliked the jackson sq rooftop. probably because i had the tar beaten outta me in grade 7 after exiting the cinema. it really is wasted space and as much was said after the plans were unveiled back in the day. not being visible from the street, it acts as great location for ne'er-do-wells to hang out and do their business. it's a peculiar and unfriendly space.

raisethehammer
Jan 11, 2008, 6:16 PM
good news from the new issue of VIEW:



BOBBY HEBERT
Bobby Hebert has been making and promoting music locally since
the ’60s but his recent work has probably brought his work to
new levels. He’s promoted The Downstairs Club, the Gore Park
Summer Music Festival, the inaugural Hamilton Idol Competition,
as well as Burlington’s Jazz and Blues Festival in the third week of
July. And while still performing with the Bobby Hebert Experience,
Hebert reunited with his ’60s band The Jameson Roberts Blues
Band with Dr. Russ Weil and Ron Marinelli in 2004 to resounding
success.
Recordings from BHX and The Jameson Roberts Blues Band
are pending in 2008 but late last year, Hebert helped usher in a
new era for Jackson Square’s Walt’s Beanery that has transformed
the mall eatery into Hamilton’s latest venue – Waltz Live Music
Club.
“As founder and Festival Director of the Burlington Jazz and
Blues Festival, I have many duties so I am looking for people who
can help me continue to build and operate the festival,” explains
Hebert. “Our plan is to build it into to an iconic event like the
Montreal Jazz Festival over the next 10 years. But each year I
receive around 1000 submissions to perform in our event. I plan
to showcase the best acts at Waltz in the coming months from
these and other submissions.
“I like the room, the sight lines are great and the sound
production is first rate,” adds Hebert. “I can showcase so many
artists and help bring more life to Hamilton. I love our city and I
want to give back whatever and whenever I can. The location is
great. It’s right in the heart of the city and 30,000 cars pass right
by us every day.”
With a plan to offer all kinds of musical genres as well as
comedians in programming, interested musicians can get in
touch by dropping by the club or by emailing Hebert at
bobbyhebert@gmail.com.
“Create a place for art and music and you build cultural
lifestyle downtown,” notes Hebert on what he hopes for a
successful run at the new downtown venue. “It doesn’t happen by
building another steak house and dance bar.”
“Hamilton has a great music scene in dire need of a first
class venue to showcase live music,” he adds. “Here is our next
effort. Waltz Live Music is one of the best facilities to come along
and throw their hat in the ring in many years. This is a venue we
want music lovers to know about and support.”
Catch Tony Monaco, Vito Rezza and Ted Quinlan Friday and
Saturday January 11 and 12 at Waltz Live Music Club, and blues
legend Mel Brown performs January 19. Tickets are $10 in
advance.

raisethehammer
Jan 14, 2008, 8:19 PM
a new deli opened in Jackson...called Deco Deli. From the outside it looks almost identical to the GO Station. very cool job at giving the 'deco' look to this place.
Not sure how long it will last a few doors up from the Hortons, but both times I've been by it's been busy.

Jon Dalton
Jan 14, 2008, 8:44 PM
Great news about the venue. I've been to Walts a few times but usually forget it's there. I hope they're successful at bringing more live jazz to the core, something that's seriously lacking from the music scene.

FRM
Jan 14, 2008, 9:50 PM
a new deli opened in Jackson...called Deco Deli. From the outside it looks almost identical to the GO Station. very cool job at giving the 'deco' look to this place.
Not sure how long it will last a few doors up from the Hortons, but both times I've been by it's been busy.

i think it will do well, given the fact that there is always a huge lineup at tim hortons whenever i pass by. Some people will just opt for that instead of timmy's.

matt602
Jan 15, 2008, 12:03 AM
i think it will do well, given the fact that there is always a huge lineup at tim hortons whenever i pass by. Some people will just opt for that instead of timmy's.

You'd think that, but it's not the first coffee shop to try to take advantage of that and fail. Most of the people in line at Tim's would not go anywhere else no matter how long the line is. As you'll notice, the Country Style and the other coffee place down the hall don't usually enjoy the best lines. Occasionally the Country Style gets a bit busy, but not too often.

Hamiltonians seem to be die hard fans of horrible coffee.

flar
Jan 15, 2008, 12:22 AM
You have to have a cheap good consistent coffee with a handy cup and lid if you want to compete with Tim's

raisethehammer
Jan 15, 2008, 3:52 AM
the stuff must have crack in it or something...it's so gross, yet people get so hooked.

HAMRetrofit
Mar 9, 2008, 8:54 PM
I really think that if Jackson Square is ever to be redeveloped it should be a housing project (condos and apartments) instead of a retail project. I think it is time to accept it as a failed mall. I think that some of the street facing sections of it should remain retail oriented and would become successful once the residential is complete. If the interior portions of the mall were gutted this could make an amazing housing project. Imagine retrofitting it with mixed use buildings that are 3-4 stories tall an recovering some of the original street grid.

raisethehammer
Mar 9, 2008, 9:41 PM
I really think that if Jackson Square is ever to be redeveloped it should be a housing project (condos and apartments) instead of a retail project. I think it is time to accept it as a failed mall. I think that some of the street facing sections of it should remain retail oriented and would become successful once the residential is complete. If the interior portions of the mall were gutted this could make an amazing housing project. Imagine retrofitting it with mixed use buildings that are 3-4 stories tall an recovering some of the original street grid.


I like your idea, but would do it a little differently. A hybrid retail/residential/office project.
The retail space CAN be successful again.
You are right to want to recapture some of the streetwall presence...3-4 storey buildings with shops facing the streets would do wonders for this.
However, given the number of highrises already on JS I'd like to see a few major condo towers built here as well. Height isn't a problem and it would add a huge infusion of residents.

HAMRetrofit
Mar 9, 2008, 10:07 PM
I just think it should be conceived as a large scale housing project instead of a revamping of a dead mall. I think that some of the retail spaces can be recovered but only after new residential spaces are developed and inhabited. Jackson Square is a perfect opportunity to develop more city housing and high end condos. Parking is already in place so that is another major plus.

fastcarsfreedom
Mar 9, 2008, 10:41 PM
As we've discussed TO DEATH here, Jackson Square doesn't fit the parameters of what most people would consider a "deal mall"--it is overbuilt, there are certainly parts of it that are dead--but it continues to have great daily foot traffic, non-traditional anchors such as the market and a captive population of office workers from M-F. The City Centre certainly falls much closer in line with what most would consider a dead/failed mall. Leasable space in JS needs to be reduced for sure, just as new retailers need to be attracted--and yes, full-time residential would be ideal...but dead?

HAMRetrofit
Mar 9, 2008, 11:16 PM
Sorry it is not dead, but in a continuous decline. I think the faster that residential is added to the mix and excess space is eliminated the better the chance it will recover. My main point is that the JS redevelopment should be lead by residential development and not reconfiguring like the approach that Lime Ridge used. I don't even think that a reconfiguring approach like Toronto's Eaton center would work in Hamilton. The problems of JS are unique to the city's core lead by excess retail space and not enough residential population living there with disposable income. Redeveloping JS as a housing project would be one of the fastest ways to reverse these problems.

The foot traffic of the mall is lead partly because of the immense scale of the center block. JS cuts off access for pedestrians, so there is simply no other convenient route other than through. The roof garden is an awful space. The other draws are the Library, Market, and Food Court.

I think that retail in the EC will have some chance to recover once some of JS's excess space is removed.

Since Hamilton owns JS they really have a good chance of driving all this change at a profit.

fastcarsfreedom
Mar 9, 2008, 11:41 PM
Toronto Eaton Centre shouldn't even part of the debate--it is a unique anomoly--it's success as a downtown urban centre has been unique in North America.

I think we can also agree that there needs to be residential development on the 'super-block'--there is plenty of space to do something meaningful--as you may know, the original Civic Square plan called for residential towers on the site of Copps. Where we differ is on the method of reconfiguration of the retail area--there certainly needs to be less--and as has been said, attracting a few, larger-format retailers would clearly address much of the excess capacity. The success of Honest Lawyer also proves there is a market in that zone for entertainment/dining...another potential area for growth. From a retail standpoint the City Centre is awkward, isolated and unanchored--I say City Centre goes on the woodpile long before JS.

hamiltonguy
Mar 10, 2008, 1:01 AM
Hamilton does NOT own Jackson Square.

However I think people are on the right track re:residential development.

A 10 story tower between the library and Copps, and a conversion of the two smaller office towers to residential with Rooftop level retail (an Indigo and a small Winners maybe) would work.

I'd also but a small grocery store (a Sobey's express maybe?) in the bottom of the 10 story tower, with the Fitness place moving up to rooftop level.

I also think the corner of James and York needs a 10 story, which will take up some of the retail and office space in City Centre. The Upper Level Offices will become the permanent home of the city's public service operations (Business Service, Council Business, and Management will remain at City Hall).

IronWarrior
Mar 10, 2008, 4:38 AM
I heard the Family Fitness has been bought out by GoodLife Fitness....now I know why they have been doing renovations over the last year or so...they also own the space next to the library I beleive..its used to be Pete and Martys back in the early 90's..I wonder whats going to be done with that..? its been empty for years!

IronWarrior
Mar 10, 2008, 4:42 AM
Speaking of Tim Hortons...lol you should have seen the line up today!lol...whats wrong with these people! I agree its gross! PAMS is much much better! waiting 20 minutes for a coffee!! haha they must put crack in it or something....:)

HAMRetrofit
Mar 10, 2008, 5:10 AM
Its roll up the rim time and people are addicted to it like crack. In Toronto, several locations were lined up out the door to get coffees today.

raisethehammer
Mar 10, 2008, 12:51 PM
if we're talking about the Horton's in JS, it's ALWAYS lined up like that. crazy.
Yea, PAM's is much better.
Has anyone been to the Deco Deli a few doors up from Hortons? It always has a good crowd in it.

thistleclub
Mar 10, 2008, 1:39 PM
Aside from most of the practical observations made in the posts above, one basic aesthetic move Yale should really make (one they probably should have made long ago) is creating brandable entranceways. King and James is the mall's most characteristic face and yet it looks like a subway entrance, Maybe a two- or three-storey glass structure that could feature interior greenery and seasonal banners or programmable LED lighting, synched with the curtain wall at 100 King West -- something that suggests that this is a retail operation with its house in order. Ideally, relocate that intersection's eastern rooftop stairs as well, which would probably reduce the colourful loitering. Add a revolving door or two in the name of climate control and to create the impression that this is a place in motion.

Goldfinger
Mar 10, 2008, 3:51 PM
Hamilton does NOT own Jackson Square.

However I think people are on the right track re:residential development.

A 10 story tower between the library and Copps, and a conversion of the two smaller office towers to residential with Rooftop level retail (an Indigo and a small Winners maybe) would work.

I'd also but a small grocery store (a Sobey's express maybe?) in the bottom of the 10 story tower, with the Fitness place moving up to rooftop level.

I also think the corner of James and York needs a 10 story, which will take up some of the retail and office space in City Centre. The Upper Level Offices will become the permanent home of the city's public service operations (Business Service, Council Business, and Management will remain at City Hall).

Hamilton owns the land JS is built on, I belive its on a 99Yr lease to yale.

RePinion
Mar 11, 2008, 8:32 PM
Aside from most of the practical observations made in the posts above, one basic aesthetic move Yale should really make (one they probably should have made long ago) is creating brandable entranceways. King and James is the mall's most characteristic face and yet it looks like a subway entrance, Maybe a two- or three-storey glass structure that could feature interior greenery and seasonal banners or programmable LED lighting, synched with the curtain wall at 100 King West -- something that suggests that this is a retail operation with its house in order. Ideally, relocate that intersection's eastern rooftop stairs as well, which would probably reduce the colourful loitering. Add a revolving door or two in the name of climate control and to create the impression that this is a place in motion.

This is a fabulous idea. Other 1970s shopping centres have been successfully opened up with retrofitted glass curtain walls. And revolving doors definitely smack of big city urbanity. Such things would do wonders both for the mall and King/James in general. I question whether Yale would ever be willing to put up this sort of money, though.

It would be ideal if Yale would divest itself of JS to another more dynamic property holder (one perhaps actually in the shopping centre business). Regretably, I cannot see them doing this unless they also decided to pull out of the Hamilton office market as well, as JS is the linchpin between all their other downtown properties ...

raisethehammer
Mar 11, 2008, 8:34 PM
Hamilton owns the land JS is built on, I belive its on a 99Yr lease to yale.


ah heck, thats not bad.
when was it built?? 1960's? we've only got to wait another 50 years till the lease ends and then we can get some action on fixing it up. Odds are it'll take that long anyhow. :haha:

raisethehammer
Mar 11, 2008, 8:38 PM
This is a fabulous idea. Other 1970s shopping centres have been successfully opened up with retrofitted glass curtain walls. And revolving doors definitely smack of big city urbanity. Such things would do wonders both for the mall and King/James in general. I question whether Yale would ever be willing to put up this sort of money, though.

It would be ideal if Yale would divest itself of JS to another more dynamic property holder (one perhaps actually in the shopping centre business). Regretably, I cannot see them doing this unless they also decided to pull out of the Hamilton office market as well, as JS is the linchpin between all their other downtown properties ...


funny story about revolving doors.
I returned from New York recently, where every single building has revolving doors and they routinely lock the 'regular' doors and force people to use the revolving doors due to better flow of people and less heat loss by not having huge doors opened to the elements all the time...I'm assuming it's a money saver in energy costs for the buildings.

So, I come back to Hamilton and am leaving JS one day through Stelco Tower...I must have still been in the NYC mode and walked towards the revolving door....smashed my face on the friggin thing since it was locked. Went and used the regular doors and was thinking to myself "this is what you get when you live in a city with no regard for energy issues and doesn't have enough people walking around to require any human 'traffic flow'. How fitting that I stepped out on the roaring freeway on King Street...now there's traffic flow - Hamilton style! Energy concerns?? Bah! Not in the good old Hammer!

HAMRetrofit
Mar 11, 2008, 8:48 PM
Revolving doors are often used for security measures and not typically anything else. The flow is actually better with standard door types. A standard door with vestibule is better from an energy conservation perspective. Revolving doors are typically used on banks etc.

raisethehammer
Mar 11, 2008, 10:20 PM
are you sure??

http://sustainability.mit.edu/Revolving_Door#Average_heat_transfer_per_swing_door_passage:_78_Wh_.28267_BTU.29

fastcarsfreedom
Mar 11, 2008, 11:06 PM
Having once worked in the presence of revolving doors, I can attest to the fact that people are essentially attracted to them likes moths to flames--that is, people are attracted to them, but for whatever reason there is a portion of the population without the accuity or coordination to use them. I remember the old revolvers at Eaton's--they didn't have the fail safe, so if you stopped in your tracks you got hammered in the back of the head...no give at all. The newer versions all have a "breakaway" mode--I would bet the Security at Stelco Tower got sick of getting up to reset the doors--hence the reason they are locked.

Then there are the monstrous versions like they have at airports to accomodate wheeled baggage--or the ones I most fondly remember which were at the "air supported" Pontiac Silverdome--they were few and far between so as to maintain the positive pressure in the stadium--and their use was accompanied by an absolute gale of wind rushing out of the building.

And yes, JS started out life in the 70s--Phase I opened in '72, Phase II around '76 or so, and Phase IV I believe was '83 or '84.

HAMRetrofit
Mar 11, 2008, 11:40 PM
Yes I am certain that a vestibule with standard doors is just as energy efficient as one revolving door.

A vestibule with revolving doors on the inside and outside would be more efficient though than a standard one. There are better ways to make a building more efficient than this though.

The main reason for installing rotating doors is security and theft reduction though.

raisethehammer
Mar 12, 2008, 3:05 AM
Having once worked in the presence of revolving doors, I can attest to the fact that people are essentially attracted to them likes moths to flames--that is, people are attracted to them, but for whatever reason there is a portion of the population without the accuity or coordination to use them. I remember the old revolvers at Eaton's--they didn't have the fail safe, so if you stopped in your tracks you got hammered in the back of the head...no give at all. The newer versions all have a "breakaway" mode--I would bet the Security at Stelco Tower got sick of getting up to reset the doors--hence the reason they are locked.

Then there are the monstrous versions like they have at airports to accomodate wheeled baggage--or the ones I most fondly remember which were at the "air supported" Pontiac Silverdome--they were few and far between so as to maintain the positive pressure in the stadium--and their use was accompanied by an absolute gale of wind rushing out of the building.

And yes, JS started out life in the 70s--Phase I opened in '72, Phase II around '76 or so, and Phase IV I believe was '83 or '84.


haha...that's too funny. in NYC every building has them and many buildings only have them. apartments, offices, condos, retail stores etc..... if they have regular doors they are hidden out of view somewhere.
yea, those stadium ones are something else. you feel like you're getting sucked apart in them.
I'm sure in NYC the cost savings are absolutely tremendous by having revolving doors. There is ALWAYS a non-stop flow of people, so if they had normal doors, odds are the doors would be open all day long. talk about losing interior heat.
I'd love to see the cost comparisons in NYC. The website I attached explains the science, which makes sense even in a normal situation. In New York they are basically eliminating the need to have their doors propped open from 8-5 every day of the week and instead they always have that constant seal in place on the inside of the revolving doors.
I should have asked more questions when I was there, but didn't. Only asked enough to find out why every single building has them and why they lock the normal doors - energy savings and traffic flow...and I'm sure in the retail establishments, theft would be a good reason too. I was chatting with the folks at my condo/hotel so retail theft wasn't an issue for them.

thistleclub
Mar 12, 2008, 11:15 PM
My presumption about the energy efficiency of revolving doors was just that. I could well be wrong, though the forced heat in that particular vestibule might change the equation, as might the frequent practice of people holding doors open -- anyone ever catch a chill while queuing for coffee at PAMs?

The efficiency of people moving through the doors is also up for debate. I wouldn't eliminate all of them -- universal access is important, for one thing. And I'll admit that there may be some side-effects of dubious practicality. For example: a pair of them at centre might limit the vestibule's usefulness as a bus shelter, which (sympathies to weather-averse transiteers) it is not. A crowd of people clogging your path is not the greatest incentive to enter.

King and James is certainly the mall's main entrance, though (aside from modest signage) the aesthetics suggest otherwise. I was thinking of something like a more humane take on the Capilano Mall, letting abundant sunlight spill deep into into the bunker -- you could run it back as far as the fork in the corridor -- and providing greater continuity between the facades of 1 James North and 100 King West.

fastcarsfreedom
Mar 13, 2008, 1:42 AM
Interior light would work wonders. For reference you can read up on the $500million GM spent revamping Renaissance Center in Detroit--the main goal of which was to shed some light "literally" into the dizzying and brutalist interior John Portman designed in the 70s. In the main photo accompanying the article you can see the large glass "Wintergarden" which faces south and which was cut deeply into the building so as to provide light throughout the interior.

raisethehammer
Mar 13, 2008, 2:30 AM
Interior light would work wonders. For reference you can read up on the $500million GM spent revamping Renaissance Center in Detroit--the main goal of which was to shed some light "literally" into the dizzying and brutalist interior John Portman designed in the 70s. In the main photo accompanying the article you can see the large glass "Wintergarden" which faces south and which was cut deeply into the building so as to provide light throughout the interior.


do you have a link? I'd like to see it.

DC83
Mar 13, 2008, 11:21 AM
He's referring to the glass section that faces Windsor

http://www.saabhistory.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2006/09/100_renaissance_center_detroit_mi.jpg
http://www.saabhistory.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2006/09/100_renaissance_center_detroit_mi.jpg

http://cache.marriott.com/propertyimages/d/dtwdt/phototour/dtwdt_phototour20.jpg
http://cache.marriott.com/propertyimages/d/dtwdt/phototour/dtwdt_phototour20.jpg

http://www.buildingphotos.com/00photos/DE-wntgdn.jpg
http://www.buildingphotos.com/00photos/DE-wntgdn.jpg

Awesome job... but something that would make more sense for HCC rather than JS.

SteelTown
Mar 13, 2008, 3:14 PM
A glass wall like that would be nice along James St for City Centre instead of that castle like design.

DC83
Mar 13, 2008, 4:52 PM
A glass wall like that would be nice along James St for City Centre instead of that castle like design.

oh ya! With a nice, big, open glass entry way as well. JS & HCC could both use an entry like that! I think you've suggested that b4, Steeltown? Didn't you make a rendering?

SteelTown
Mar 13, 2008, 6:18 PM
Yea but that was for the front entrance of Jackson Square at James and King. Any noticeable change to Jackson Square has to have a new modern front entrance. My idea was to have at least 4 storey V shape glass wall at James and King with retail space for like Gap, even Urban Planet, etc to show off the latest clothing trend and perhaps have CHCH place up a giant video screen. The V shape pointing towards Gore Park because drivers from King (as King will go two way) will be able to see it from each side.

That idea probably got buried in the old Hamilton development thread.