[Haliguy]

HRM by Design Public Presentation on downtown @ the World Trade and Convention Centre on Nov 28th @ 6pm


http://www.halifax.ca/capitaldistrict/RegionalCentreUrbanDesignStudy.html

[Jonovision]

I already have it marked on my calendar.

[phrenic]

I had to leave before the question period started. Did Phil Pacey go on a rant?

I was impressed with the presentation though.

[Haliguy]

I didn't stay for the whole thing so I'm not sure if Phil Pacey spoke. I did hear a few heritage wind bags get up an spaek that went on and on. One lady even said she did some caclulations and she figured this plan would cost...get this...2 trillion dollars and that Halifax could not afford this. I just about fell out of my chair laughing.


I like what I have seen I think it is very positive for our city. I would like to have seen more height especailly in the Cogwells interchange area. Also there was no mention of the posobiltity of a new Metro Centre or convention centre space. This seems to be lacking in their plan.

[Wishblade]

See Jack walk to work
City rolls out picture of what life could be like in Halifax
By DAVENE JEFFREY Staff Reporter


A bustling downtown Halifax with lively restaurants, tree-lined streets, amenities within walking distance and room for 5,000 new residents was unveiled to hundreds of HRM residents Wednesday night.

For the most part, residents who publicly commented following the presentation at the World Trade and Convention Centre seemed to like the vision, but some worried that few will be able to afford to live there.

"There’s nothing here for families," said Beverly Miller.

To demonstrate what life would be like in the preferred scenario for the downtown presented by the HRM by Design team, the public was shown a short slide show of a day in the life of Jack, a fictional resident of future Halifax.

Their Jack lives in a three-storey townhouse near the harbour, likes to walk through the city’s various historic precincts, works in a new highrise, has one child in day care and eats dinner out.

"Jack makes a lot of money," one man said.

The average worker doesn’t make big bucks. "They shouldn’t have to live in the rural areas to be bused in to wait on the affluent," he said.

Affordability is one issue "we are going to have to roll up our sleeves and consider," said design team member Jennifer Keesmatt.

A plan that moves that many people into the downtown and promises to create three million square feet of new office space in the next 15 years is going to set off wild real estate speculation, Ms. Miller said.

The South Street homeowner said property in her part of town will be priced out of reach for most people.

In the meantime, more ugly spaces will likely be created in the short term, as investors will buy up modest buildings and turn them into parking lots to make money until the market heats up, Ms. Miller said.

But people who are afraid of density are really being elitist, said developer and president of the Investment Property Owners Association of Nova Scotia Joe Metlege.

"When you up density, you reduce costs," Mr. Metlege said.

Density is the key to a vibrant downtown, Ms. Keesmaat said. "So you can have great shops and restaurants."

Several speakers questioned the planning and how the additional workers to fill the new office space would travel to work.

The team, however, envisions Haligonians walking, cycling and using public transit. The vision also includes a large bus terminal near Scotia Square.

Building height was not a hot potato at the Wednesday night meeting, although some concerns were raised.

David Wallbridge, lives a more modest Jack-like existence in Halifax. He lives near the Commons and gets around town on foot.

"I’m concerned about the effect of the (building) height and wind," he said. Halifax has some notorious wind tunnels created by high buildings.

"It’s miserable out there a lot of the time (on foot)," Mr. Walbridge said.

The preferred downtown scenario can be viewed on line at www.hrmbydesign.ca.

The design team will present final recommendations on the downtown to regional council in the new year. The downtown scenario will be part of a final project report due in March. The report will provide policy direction on urban design guidelines for the entire regional centre.

[terrynorthend]

One lady even said she did some caclulations and she figured this plan would cost...get this...2 trillion dollars and that Halifax could not afford this.

Wow. I guess I'd have to side with this lady. I mean there are better ways to spend our 2 trillion dollars. For example, we could build 13,333 United Gulf tower projects. I suggest we put them all on Prince Edward Island and turn it into Uber-Manhattan. Alternatively, Halifax could use this money to host the Commonwealth games ($2B est.), the Winter Olympics ($3B est.), and the Summer Olympics ($5B est.) for the next 800 years. Or maybe we could have the city buy and pay for everything in the HRM by Design proposal and build it all...on the MOON!

I'll have whatever she's drinkin'!

[Jonovision]

The presentation was very good! I was thoroughly impressed with their ideas and vision. when it came time for question period though i felt like hitting my head against the wall when most people were speaking. I'm guessing most of them were not paying attention at all during the presentation and then got up to ask questions that were clearly answered in the presentation. For instance one women went on a rant saying there were no green building initiatives, even though the very first point to come up in their slide show was sustainability?!
I did stay for the whole thing, and yes both elizabeth and phil pacey got up to speak their mind. they mostly listed facts about their heritage building, but then didnt apply those facts to any real criticism....yes we know the buildings are georgian, but what would you suggest?! There was even a drunk man who got up and started rambling at the very end. The only person who made any sense in my mind was Mr. Medegun, (at least i think thats his name?) he's a local, young developer who has a real knack for speaking at these things. And all his points were valid.

Well one can hope that some change will come of this?

[citiguy]

The people that got up and spoke out against this did not seem to understand the economics or finanically feasiblity of this whole project. The city is not building any of these buildings, developers will be. The developers are going to be the ones adding in all this nice street furniture. People forgot that if the developer can't make money it won't be built. If we continue to cap out heights in the economic centre of Atlantic Canada we are only pushing ourselfs backward up against a wall for failure, which I think as a city (sorry a municipality) we are fine with.

The presentation had its good and bad points. A lot of the land they talked about is things that will not likely be redevelopled. Yes redevelopment, because land value is not that high to tear down the superstore (and put up condo/apartments), the NSP power plant, the HRP station, etc.

Do people actually think Crombie is going to do that wonderful casement of the Cogesll tower parkade? No. Too closely for what benefit. The interchange, as they kept saying is a long-term thing and we all have to forget about it and focus on other parts of DT. The heritage area is nice but it won't work, not feasible.

This goes along with the how unambitious this place is, we do study after study that achieves nothing. This vision for the downtown core has been going on not for a year or two but for a few decades. We are too scared to have a common name and grow into a larger city, who cares what Dartmouth, Bedford, Sackville or any other place has to say. Where is our leader that can stand up and make a decision and be the leader that we elected him to be (Mayor Kelly).

To those on Chebucto Rd. First off you have no rights. The city is just being nice and should of taken the land a while ago. You buy a house at a busy traffic centre with a few sq .ft of a front lawn. If they were smart they would take the higher value not for the land but for their entire property, call it a day and move a street or so in if they enjoy that neighbourhood so much. Expropriation happens every other day and I don't think it is fair or right that this particular neighbourhood is getting more media than the another.

Sorry that it turned into a rant, but to end this, the city(halifax Reginal Municipality) does not care about their young. The ones that will be there tommorrow, their future property tax payers, their soon to be working class cizitens that will contribute to this Regional whatever we are. They will continue to scar us off and all that will be left is the people that can't afford to do anything and old southend elite gray hair about to kick the can citizens.

[Keith P.]

http://www.thechronicleherald.ca/Business/995132.html

NO ONE said the job of creating a master plan for future development in downtown Halifax was going to be easy and never was that more evident than at Wednesday night’s public presentation of the HRM by Design team’s "preferred scenario" for the city’s prime business district.

The group charged with creating the plan took a drubbing from those who were opposed to large buildings in the downtown and from those on the other side of the issue who are pushing for greater density in the area.

The Toronto firm of Office for Urbanism, which the city has hired to assist the HRM by Design group and its downtown task force in propelling a new concept for the downtown, presented a beautiful picture of the future.

In the dream sequence imagining the future downtown, there will be plenty of condo and office development mixed in with heritage buildings. The downtown will be pedestrian-friendly with widened sidewalks, open spaces and plenty of trees lining the streets. Add to that all kinds of neat little shops, which are expected to pop up to cater to an influx of affluent residents and workers.

There is no doubt it was a beautiful vision, but it was lacking something, which it took me a while to put my finger on. Then I realized what was missing: it was reality.

Missing was the business case to support all the changes. The plan as pre-sented will cost billions of dollars to implement and there wasn’t a mention about where the money was going to come from.

Perhaps the downtown dream would be a little different if the group had met people who have a direct interest in the downtown already. I know the Ramia family, one of the largest downtown property owners and developers, was not contacted before the group reached its conclusions. And others with significant downtown interests have also indicated they were not con-tacted about their preferred scenario for the downtown.

While admitting HRM by Design’s preferred scenario for the downtown would make most citizens proud, one businessman said in his opinion there isn’t a chance it will become reality as long as it stands firm against construction of buildings with the density required for a reasonable return on investment.

He was talking about the height restrictions proposed in the preferred scenario for Area 2, which runs from Brunswick Street to the waterfront and from George Street to Spring Garden Road. The bulk of the area will be subject to strict low-rise development rules of seven storeys or less, with the exception of two designated sites owned by government, which have been deemed suitable for structures of up to 16 storeys.

Joe Metlege, a recent university grad, developer and president of the Investment Property Owners Association of Nova Scotia, told the meeting that density was key to creating a vibrant downtown.

Allowing greater density means reduced overall costs and more money for design and materials.

To help demonstrate what life may be like for people living in the downtown under the preferred scenario, Jen-nifer Keesmaat, a partner with Office for Urbanism, walked the meeting through a day in the life of a fictional resident of the future named Jack.

Jack, she said, lives with his partner and their preschool-age daughter in a three-storey townhouse near the harbour, not far from the Superstore on Barrington Street. He likes to walk through the city’s various historic "precincts" on his way to work in a new highrise built in the area of the Cogswell Street interchange.

While some might suggest that Keesmaat doesn’t know jack about the downtown, I won’t allow myself to succumb to such a line. But it did sound a bit like Jack was from an-other planet rather than a future resident.

The audience correctly pointed out that living in the downtown would be an expensive proposition for anyone and likely would be well out of the financial range of a lot of families. Keesmaat suggested one way to ensure a mix of the economic strata in the downtown would be to require condo developers to offer about 20 per cent of units at reduced rates to lower-income families.

Everyone is acting as though the downtown is already a vibrant and healthy community. But those who have walked the Halifax downtown lately would immediately realize it is anything but energetic.

The HRM by Design dream plan would create some certainty and allow for as-of-right development, but it is also restrictive and anything but welcoming to developers of today or the future.

What Halifax needs is an emergency plan in place to inject some life into the downtown immediately and the only way to do that is to quickly introduce some well-paying jobs into the area.

It is jobs that are the necessary catalyst before any redesign of the downtown can become a reality.

( rtaylor@herald.ca)


I'm starting to see HRM By Design as another useless study that will never be implemented. Too many compromises over height by pandering to heritage groups make for too many short building requirements which will not be financially viable and will continue to make the downtown architecturally uninteresting. A shame.

[someone123]

One of the big shortcomings in the HRM by Design plan so far is that they haven't scrapped the ridiculous bylaw banning the construction of any building visible from inside the Citadel. The reason for having this bylaw is extremely minor (make it easier to pretend it's 1859 while standing inside the Citadel) compared to its implications (serious height restriction over entire downtown area). In fact, this difference is so great that I can only imagine that "heritage advocates" are using the Citadel thing as an excuse to prevent construction that they simply don't like.

I haven't seen the most recent set of HRM by Design renderings since they're not up on the website. If this is accepted it won't be totally worthless since it does improve the level of development that's permitted as-of-right.

If buildings like United Gulf and the Salter Street waterfront development are ever built they will add a lot to the vitality of the downtown. I can't wait for the day when their success is attributed to HRM by Design (or random studies) despite the fact that these buildings would never have been permitted had those policies actually been in effect.

I should dig through past council minutes and try to find out what some people said about Bishop's Landing...

[worldlyhaligonian]

This article is rather stupid. The only thing holding back Halifax right now is the will of the people, you can bring negativity to anything. This vision is quite real... it may cost hundreds of millions of dollars, or maybe even billions as stated. But that amount won't suddenly come off the books, furthermore it will be coming from public and private sources.

[someone123]

Anybody know if they plan on posting the slides from the presentation? I haven't been able to find them on the HRM by Design website.

[Commoner]

Neat perspective from all. I was at the presentation, and loved it. The vast majority of people there support the initiative. As far as affordability, it will be affordable because the city is dynamic, creating jobs, so people can afford to live downtown. Vancouver and Toronto are packed to the gills with 'Jack' and his family living downtown, we can too. No, it's not going to cost the same as your duplex or link home in Tantallon, but then again, if that's all we're ever going to have in this city, then the young talented agressive winners will just leave, and we will have nothing left but McJobs and whining. And please, no comments about 'we do not want Toronto'; neither do I, at least none of the bad parts (pollution, long commutes), but what I do want is vibrancy, wealth and wealth creation, ubanism (and all that implies), PLUS the freedom to drive 20 minutes to Polley's cove for a hike by the sea without another single soul there to disturb me.

[worldlyhaligonian]

Neat perspective from all. I was at the presentation, and loved it. The vast majority of people there support the initiative. As far as affordability, it will be affordable because the city is dynamic, creating jobs, so people can afford to live downtown. Vancouver and Toronto are packed to the gills with 'Jack' and his family living downtown, we can too. No, it's not going to cost the same as your duplex or link home in Tantallon, but then again, if that's all we're ever going to have in this city, then the young talented agressive winners will just leave, and we will have nothing left but McJobs and whining. And please, no comments about 'we do not want Toronto'; neither do I, at least none of the bad parts (pollution, long commutes), but what I do want is vibrancy, wealth and wealth creation, ubanism (and all that implies), PLUS the freedom to drive 20 minutes to Polley's cove for a hike by the sea without another single soul there to disturb me.

I totally agree, and I think maybe we can learn from some of the mistakes made in Toronto, however that city is wayy more vibrant than halifax currently is and the naysayers are either ignorant or jealous.

[someone123]

The Toronto comments are just a red herring. Toronto's a very different city and it's not even true that the new buildings proposed here are the same as what is being built there.