[North Vancouver] British Properties Development will change the view of west Van

[vanman]

Saw this on Global news tonight. 100s of new Condos, townhomes, and sinlge family houses will be built along the Upper Levels Highway in the British Properties.Click the link for tons of info with renderings of the developments as well as images of what the potential visual impact will look like.

http://www.westvancouver.ca/upload/documents/presentations/rodgers_creek/Rodgers_Creek_ADP_Overview_Oct11_2007.swf

[Distill3d]

holy hell! thats massive.

wonder what the cost to move in will be. probably in the millions

[mr.x]

wow....that's huge. the architectural designs look quite a bit like what you'd see up at Whistler.

i'm not exactly thrilled about more mountain slope development, but at least it isn't a clearcut like the sprawl that already exists to the east of it.

[Lead]

i hate the scars it creates on the mountainside... but at least it looks better then a lot of the previous developments

[vanman]

I agree. The last development on the British Properties took quite a while for it to be filled in with buildings and greenery. It was a large brown scar for quite some time.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v643/vannmann/115071192_619a4dc930.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v643/vannmann/1572978695_b1d84fffca.jpg

As well, at least the Rodgers Creek development will only be 20% single family houses. And the entire development will be 55% greenspace.

[bils]

the story on the news talked quite a bit about the relative lack of opposition to this project thus far. they actually interviewed someone who is part of an organization that looks after the preservation of stream habitats on the north shore, and even he was impressed by how the project was respectful of the sensitive areas in the region. the development will not involve clearcuts.

damn, did anyone notice this?

avg apartment size ~2880 sqft
avg townhouse ~3850 sqft
avg home ~5000 sqft

prices will be astronomical

[SpongeG]

it is the British Properties known for being for the "elite"

[Canadian Mind]

Holly shit. Any idea how much they are going to densify the area? Might be demanding a leg of skytrain head that way in 10-15 years (if we're lucky).

Hope some nice mid-sized buildings are constructed. Even some high rises around 350-400 feet tall here and there would be nice.

[mr.x]

Holly shit. Any idea how much they are going to densify the area? Might be demanding a leg of skytrain head that way in 10-15 years (if we're lucky).

Hope some nice mid-sized buildings are constructed. Even some high rises around 350-400 feet tall here and there would be nice.

350-400 feet tall building on a mountain slope??!!!!:maddown:

[Canadian Mind]

I'm sure it's possible. :P

[hollywoodnorth]

nice :)

[osirisboy]

damn, did anyone notice this?

avg apartment size ~2880 sqft
avg townhouse ~3850 sqft
avg home ~5000 sqft

prices will be astronomical

wholly crap thats huge!!!

[officedweller]

I've always thougt it strange that West Vancouver has those towers along the road to Cypress Bowl. I guess it's a result of the seaside communities resisting densification (and view blockage) and forcing densification up the mountain.

[cornholio]

this entire development consists of only 560 units(number is probably off by a +- couple units, to lazy to find it again).

In any case two-three large condos in downtown Vancouver hold more units then this entire project.

Just to put some things in perspective.

But its huge none the less, just unfortunate that such a vast amount of land with beautiful views relatively near downtown and next to the begining of almost endless natural forests, trails, etc. is going to only hold around 1500-2000 people. Areas such as these should hold more and take full advantage of the location with the virtually free and unlimited park space next to them. A city like Shanghai for example would kill for something like that.
But it looks much much better then the previous developments on the British Properties, but that doesnt mean it still cant be better.

[nathan6969]

^^I bet you only a few hundred ppl end up even living up there, half of the new houses they built up westhill are empty most of the time, why do you think the city wants to go to all the work to develop the mountain, huge tax revenues and these ppl aren't really using any of the city services or increasing congestion.

[cornholio]

West Vancouver district debates future suburb
Glenn Bohn , Vancouver Sun
Published: Monday, March 24, 2008

WEST VANCOUVER - A forest almost a quarter of the size of Stanley Park is the site chosen for the next suburb proposed by British Pacific Properties, the largest land owner in the community.

During the Depression, a syndicate controlled by the Guinness beer family of Ireland paid less than $50 a hectare for 1,600 hectares of land on Hollyburn Ridge, then built the Lions Gate Bridge in 1938 to woo the wealthy to a new suburb high above the small summer cottages that then lined West Vancouver's shores.

Today, hundreds of multi-million-dollar mansions with commanding views fill the original British Properties and Whitby Estates, the company's most recent development.

Now, BPP wants to continue its westward expansion on land it owns above the Upper Levels Highway.

If a development plan for the 87-hectare Rodgers Creek area gets West Vancouver council's stamp of approval this summer, loggers and bulldozer operators will begin dropping trees and pushing through second-growth forest later this year.

The land is already zoned for housing. The question is what type of housing will go up and where it will be built.

British Pacific Properties proposed 538 housing units. About 60 per cent were to be apartments.

But a District of West Vancouver-initiated advisory committee this month proposed Option B, a higher-density option on the same footprint of land: 736 housing units, about 70 per cent of which would be apartments. The balance would be mostly townhomes (14 per cent) and single family houses (13 per cent).

BPP community relations manager Andrew Pottinger said in an interview either development option is acceptable to the company because either would provide satisfactory revenue.

"It's really a question of what the community would prefer to see as a [housing] mix," Pottinger said.

He said supporters of Option B want smaller housing units in West Van because they are downsizing from larger homes, or are young families that cannot afford houses in West Vancouver.

"West Vancouver is not going to be very affordable by the standards of other places but, relatively speaking, the smaller units will be more affordable and available to different household types," Pottinger said.

But what about the environmental impact of another development on a steep hillside with eight streams and 20 tiny tributaries?

Both plans call for the conservation of more than 55 per cent of the land area - municipal parks and green space that would set aside creek-side habitat, rock bluffs and some forest stands.

No salmon swim that far upstream, but those cool mountain streams are the year-round home of the coastal tailed frog. It takes as long as four years for their tadpoles to turn into froglets and several more years before they are sexually mature and can reproduce.

According to the B.C. Environment Ministry, tailed frogs may live 15 or 20 years, which makes them one of the longest-living frogs in the world. The Committee on Endangered Species in Canada classifies the coastal tailed frog as a species of "special concern" because it is sensitive to human activities.

In 1997, before mansions started sprouting at Whitby Estates, a group of elementary school students discovered a frog in a tributary of one of the creeks on BPP's property.

The kids had found a critter that BPP-commissioned consultants didn't find or mention in their environmental impact reports.

The children later addressed West Van council to make a nationally-publicized plea to protect the frogs - a plea that delayed the construction of Whitby Estates and led to larger streamside protection areas.

"To have an animal like the tailed frog in our community is fantastic," said David Meszaros, then 10 years old.

"It says a lot about the wonderful place where we live. Unfortunately, if we were to lose this animal after all we know, it would say a lot more."

He asked adults old enough to be his grandparents to do their "very best."

"Frogs don't breed too well in a parking lot," Meszaros said.

Pottinger said ongoing BPP-supported studies show the tailed frog population in the Whitby Estates area is "thriving" and large protected areas around streams will ensure the next development won't hurt the species.

John Barker, a West Vancouver Streamkeepers representative on the district's nine-person advisory committee, said the development plan put forward by the committee addressed initial concerns that the mountain streams would be harmed and the mountainside scarred by the development.

"Imagine 215 acres of probably some of the most valuable residential real estate in Canada," said Barker, a Seaspan International vice-president before he retired. "Maybe being as valuable as it is affords the present owners of the land the ability to maybe do some things differently, in a little more caring fashion, than some developments."

Would be good news if the density is increased, 538 units is way to little in such a large area right next to abundant "park" space. 538 units would never be enough to warrant any real transit services or basic commercial development to serve the neighborhood. 736 units sounds much better though it would be nice if they could almost double that, but thats probably not going to happen. In a perfect world they would throw in some large midrise-highrise towers along the northern edge of the development to to add another 700 or so units, this wouldn't block any views and it would help the neighborhood achieve some critical mass for a decent and frequent transit shuttle service and some basic commercial services.

[SpongeG]

there was a rendering in the sun newspaper and a front page (westcoast news section) story


can't find anything online but it looks interesting

[Rusty Gull]

^Yes, the graphic in the Sun was quite shocking -- as it showed the extent to which the West Vancouver mountainside is about to get another "bad haircut".

[nathan6969]

Would be good news if the density is increased, 538 units is way to little in such a large area right next to abundant "park" space. 538 units would never be enough to warrant any real transit services or basic commercial development to serve the neighborhood. 736 units sounds much better though it would be nice if they could almost double that, but thats probably not going to happen. In a perfect world they would throw in some large midrise-highrise towers along the northern edge of the development to to add another 700 or so units, this wouldn't block any views and it would help the neighborhood achieve some critical mass for a decent and frequent transit shuttle service and some basic commercial services.

It's an exclusive residential area, why would we want shuttle service and commericial development. There's no commercial development anywhere else in the british properties. Further, if they start getting too dense, they're gonna have to make significant changes to the road infrastructure.

[deasine]

Well the buildings aren't too tall thankfully. I'm kinda surprised West Van would change the face of British Properties like that - it's a pretty well off & exclusive area. In a sense it will still keep an exclusive look - reminds me of Whistler closer to home.

The beginning of our Hong Kong Mountain:

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1258/953669278_03f62a0711_b.jpg
The View from Hong Kong Mountain (notice skyscrapers built on top of the mountain) ~ Source: Flickr

[nikw]

damn, did anyone notice this?

avg apartment size ~2880 sqft
avg townhouse ~3850 sqft
avg home ~5000 sqft

prices will be astronomical

He said supporters of Option B want smaller housing units in West Van because they are downsizing from larger homes, or are young families that cannot afford houses in West Vancouver.

"West Vancouver is not going to be very affordable by the standards of other places but, relatively speaking, the smaller units will be more affordable and available to different household types," Pottinger said.

relatively speaking? I don't see how even the smaller units could possibly be "relatively" more affordable.

[CameronT120]

Relative to West Vancouver prices.

[SpongeG]

its not for average people its for the already rich

[hollywoodnorth]

boy I wonder where all the West Vancouver NIMBY's are now? They scream bloody murder about the Highway which from a safety standpoint IS needed. And here WAY more trees will come down and they want to put MORE people in?

funny I say.

[cornholio]

It's an exclusive residential area, why would we want shuttle service and commericial development. There's no commercial development anywhere else in the british properties. Further, if they start getting too dense, they're gonna have to make significant changes to the road infrastructure.

I smell a nimby, I do, I do.

[twoNeurons]

boy I wonder where all the West Vancouver NIMBY's are now? They scream bloody murder about the Highway which from a safety standpoint IS needed. And here WAY more trees will come down and they want to put MORE people in?

funny I say.

Because the highway was for OTHER people.

[hollywoodnorth]

Because the highway was for OTHER people.
ohhhhh yessss my bad ;)

[Nutterbug]

Because the highway was for OTHER people.

But do they want the land they're living on to be shared with more OTHER people?

I guess they're just grudgingly clenching their teeth and bearing it because they don't have a valid argument and they know it.

[twoNeurons]

But do they want the land they're living on to be shared with more OTHER people?

I guess they're just grudgingly clenching their teeth and bearing it because they don't have a valid argument and they know it.
Or perhaps they want to be trendy and live in a "sustainable" house with a small carbon footprint and a four car garage.

[Vancity4life]

The Rich millionaires of British Properties are living in a bubble. A bubble that seems to be expanding and getting bigger. One day the bubble may just pop and those people may be exposed to...gasp...real life!

[cc85]

soon soon, they will all suffer, lets grab hands and pray for that!

[EastVanMark]

boy I wonder where all the West Vancouver NIMBY's are now? They scream bloody murder about the Highway which from a safety standpoint IS needed. And here WAY more trees will come down and they want to put MORE people in?

funny I say.

...and hypocritical.

[EastVanMark]

The Rich millionaires of British Properties are living in a bubble. A bubble that seems to be expanding and getting bigger. One day the bubble may just pop and those people may be exposed to...gasp...real life!

No they won't. People from that neighborhood don't have mortgages and and don't have the vast majority of their money tied to a home. If anything, a busting bubble will only be a speed bump in the fast lane of life.

[EastVanMark]

But do they want the land they're living on to be shared with more OTHER people?

I guess they're just grudgingly clenching their teeth and bearing it because they don't have a valid argument and they know it.

"OTHER" people cannot, will not, be able to afford anything up there. The only time those people clench their teeth is when they run out of caviar.

[Nutterbug]

"OTHER" people cannot, will not, be able to afford anything up there. The only time those people clench their teeth is when they run out of caviar.

They'll have to share the space with new and not-as-affluent condo dwellers. That's not bound to sit well with them, is it?

[EastVanMark]

They'll have to share the space with new and not-as-affluent condo dwellers. That's not bound to sit well with them, is it?

No, cause the condo developments are far away from their monster (and here that term really does apply) estates. Its kinda like Shaughnessy residents sharing space with condos on Broadway. There have been "not quite so rich" living that far from them for a long time now.

[Nutterbug]

No, cause the condo developments are far away from their monster (and here that term really does apply) estates. Its kinda like Shaughnessy residents sharing space with condos on Broadway. There have been "not quite so rich" living that far from them for a long time now.

I guess you always need a few "not quite so rich" within view to remind yourself of how much better off you are.

[EastVanMark]

I guess you always need a few "not quite so rich" within view to remind yourself of how much better off you are.

Ya, and its funny the way they did that. The really expensive homes are off course alone on the top part of the mountainside looking down on those "poor souls" living beneath them.

A friend of mine is in the hardwood floors business and worked on one of these mansions. His bill for the work came to $225,000 and the owner just wrote him a check with the same care that most people would write a $12 check.

[nathan6969]

No, cause the condo developments are far away from their monster (and here that term really does apply) estates. Its kinda like Shaughnessy residents sharing space with condos on Broadway. There have been "not quite so rich" living that far from them for a long time now.

There's already tons of condo development above the highway in west van, in the british properties up folkestone, at the top of westhill, by cypress; they aren't exactly low-end 500sq ft suites for up and coming professionals....as for the earlier discussion, I don't know how we got into commercial development anyway, this is up the freakin mountain, no ones building stores up there.

[cornholio]

No they won't. People from that neighborhood don't have mortgages and and don't have the vast majority of their money tied to a home. If anything, a busting bubble will only be a speed bump in the fast lane of life.

Yup houses at those prices dont drop in value with other real estate, its a completely separate market. The rich are always rich and they dont get affected by market swings because their not living on the edge like the rest of society. Plus the real estate and goods that specifically are for them also dont get affected because they dont get affected.

[LeftCoaster]

^ That post made no sense...

It's an exclusive residential area, why would we want shuttle service and commericial development. There's no commercial development anywhere else in the british properties. Further, if they start getting too dense, they're gonna have to make significant changes to the road infrastructure.

I'm going to have to disagree here. I think that some commercial development in this area will be welcome by the residents, as it is currently a very remote area. I live near this proposed development and it is a pain in the ass when you need anything becuase it is at least 10 minutes down the mountain if you need anything... even a corner store. Some moderate scale commercial development would be a welcome sight, a grocery store would be perfect if you ask me.

And multi family housing is certainly nothing new to the area either, there are quite a few low rise condo developments and even a few high rise developments north of the upper levels.

[thedjraw]

WV hears Rodgers Creek plans

Both proposals will require rezoning for more homes

Munisha Tumato, North Shore News
Published: Wednesday, April 23, 2008

A proposed community amenities package worth $15.43 million for the Rodgers Creek development was discussed by West Vancouver council April 14.
Proposed amenities include enhanced storm water diversion piping, mountain paths, restoration of creeks, a renewal of Chelsea Park and a $2-million contribution to a district reserve fund.
Several councillors felt that the proposed amenities were insufficient given the added value to the developer of rezoning to increase density, and that more discussion was needed about them.
The current zoning would allow for 375 units to be built. Council is considering two possible development options for Rodgers Creek. Option A would see 538 housing units built and Option B is to build 736 slightly smaller housing units. Each option proposes a mix of single-family dwellings, duplex and triplexes, townhouses and apartments.
Both options would require the same amount of infrastructure, such as roads, and both would occupy the same amount of space.
Under option A, it is expected that 1,120 new residents will be added to the population of West Vancouver. With option B, 1,460 extra residents are expected.
A working group report strongly recommended going with option B, saying that its higher density was the better option from an environmental perspective and it would provide more affordable housing.
Council also discussed traffic concerns. A connector road between Chippendale Road and Cypress Bowl Road was discussed as a necessary means of diverting truck traffic from construction away from residences. Councillors requested more information on an alternate road network for construction.
A traffic impact study released in March concluded that the impact of the development to the already congested 15th Street, 21st Street, Taylor Way and Lions Gate Bridge would be "minimal" with the traffic congestion along these roadways expected to increase by 2.5 per cent.
The working group report also recommended encouraging accessory houses in the form of secondary suites and coach houses as a way of providing rental housing. Some councillors were concerned with this recommendation and requested more information about some of the possible regulations around such housing.
A fiscal impact report, also released in March, predicted that options A and B will both provide some extra cash flow through property taxes and user fees and revenues, with option B leading to a slightly higher gain in revenue for the district.

http://www.canada.com/northshorenews/news/story.html?id=840f5d72-b048-4dfc-9d81-b85ff31a4d61&k=36586

[nathan6969]

Connecting the British Properties to Cypress Bowl Road, is actually a really good idea, it'd provide much easier access for trucks, and it would take some of the pressure off 21st where everything basically has to filter through. It seems like it'd provide a much faster way down for residents at the top too.