Anti-idling law for Edmonton

[Shodan]

Anti-idling law put in motion

By DANIEL MACISAAC, SUN MEDIA

December 10, 2007

Drive-thru lineups will be cut considerably if a bylaw banning idling comes into effect next year.

Coun. Dave Thiele says Edmonton city council has passed a motion to review a draft bylaw in February.

He believes it has solid support and might come into effect as early as next summer.

"I think our new council is a bit more sensitive to the environment," he said. "I think the bylaw will become a reality."

Reports have shown how idling negatively affects the environment, and a study by University of Alberta student Amanda Dacyk found that Edmonton motorists collectively spend as many as 5,000 hours a day idling outside fast-food restaurants.

"The most important issue for me was looking at drive-thrus as an unnecessary service for most people," Dacyk said.

"It's supposed to be a time-saving service, but they end up waiting longer.

"So, people have to be aware of the negative effects of those emissions and weigh the benefits and costs."

Jasper passed an anti-idling bylaw last month to become the latest in a growing list of municipalities across Alberta and Canada to do so.

But Thiele stresses the importance of education, too. Council is supporting a public education effort worth $140,000 in next year's budget to target school zones, for example, which Thiele says is another area where idling gets out of hand.

"We've all seen how Mom or Dad are waiting for Junior for 15 minutes, so that the kids coming out the school are breathing in all those fumes from 20 minivans," he said.

Thiele said a bylaw would allow the city to put up signs warning motorists not to idle - and that fines would be a last resort.

Hinton Mayor Glenn Taylor says education rather than enforcement has been the experience in Hinton, one of the first communities in the country to enact anti-idling legislation three years ago.

"Our community relies on natural resources and we consider ourselves stewards of the land," he said. "So, the idling bylaw has been well received."

[Edmonchuck]

While great for the environment, the law itself will be unenforcable. I'd rather see the Hinton example as from personal experience, I'm idling far less due to all this conversation.

[Coldrsx]

^agreed...good in theory, however very hard to enforce.

I cannot stand car starters and people who idle excessively. I come out of my hockey games and 1/2 the parking lot is running...

[mersar]

The schools and Town have put up some signs in Cochrane around some of the schools, without passing any bylaws, and it has had decent effect here from what I've seen.

[NumberFive]

It's a nice idea, but same thing... if I'm a parent waiting to pick up my kid form school and it's -25 outside, I'm sure as heck not turning off my car and sitting in it.

[Coldrsx]

^it doesnt get cold right away...why not turn it off until cooler then warm up again...or maybe dress appropriately.

[Boris2k7]

Natural Resources Canada has an interesting page on the different methods to reduce vehicle idling...

The Carrot, the Stick, and the Combo – A Recipe for Reducing Vehicle Idling in Canadian Communities (http://www.oee.nrcan.gc.ca/communities-government/transportation/municipal-communities/reports/carrot-stick-combo/overview.cfm?attr=28)

As noted, Toronto is among the cities that have a standalone anti-idling bylaw.

[freeweed]

Anti-idling all the way. The law may be unenforceable per se, but give it a couple of decades and we'll see this behaviour curbed (pun intended) for the most part. People said drinking & driving laws were unenforceable, too. The perception that it's a bad idea will change people's attitudes.

Nothing pisses me off more than the jackasses who can't turn their car off for their 5 minute run into 7-11. It pollutes, it creates a theft target (I come from a city where a tremendous number of crimes are committed by joyriders), and it just makes you look stupid. If you can't handle the cool-down in your car from being shut off for a few minutes, how the HELL will you survive if your car breaks down one night? :koko:

It's like picking people up from the LRT. I park somewhere (at the end of the day there are plenty of close spots), turn off the damn car, and actually stand outside to wait. Wow, a few minutes outside, I'm amazed I don't die from exposure! :haha:

No, I'm not from Edmonton but this is something *ALL* cities need. There may be a good argument for temperature rules (ie: if it's -25 out, then ok) but beyond that, there is no excuse to idle your car. None. Ever.

And yeah - fast-food drive-thrus. Wow. Virtually any time I go, it's far faster to just get your fat lazy ass out of the car, walk inside, and get your food. I won't even touch on the stupidity of Tim's drive-thru.

[Kevin_foster]

^ When it's -30*c; if you're going to wait for 10+ minutes, why not go inside? If your waiting at a school for your child, what's wrong with going into the reception area?

And I agree, drive thu's annoy me.

[SHOFEAR]

I idle mine all the time...just because I love the way it sounds...:slob:

I'm really bad for idling. This summer If I was crunching numbers in my work truck (F350) I'd some times let it idle for hours with the AC on to keep me cool. I felt bad, but when you looked around and saw dozens of heavy pieces or iron like buggy's and large cats spewing out some really bad looking stuff you realize your just a tiny drop in a large bucket.

While I appreciate the environmental commitment, i think it's somewhat misdirected, targeting the results of the lifestyle, instead of the lifestyle.

[Edmonchuck]

Anti-idling all the way. The law may be unenforceable per se, but give it a couple of decades and we'll see this behaviour curbed (pun intended) for the most part. People said drinking & driving laws were unenforceable, too. The perception that it's a bad idea will change people's attitudes.

.


I can agree with a lot of your post (especially the STUPIDITY that is a Timmy Ho's D-thru), but the comparison to drunk driving is not acceptable to me.

I don't remember anyone saying that drunk driving laws werre unenforcable. Ever. Plus, the devestating effects of impared driving are readily apparent to anyone.

This is more like trying to enforce pet by-laws or no smoking by-laws in areas rather than imparied driving.

[NumberFive]

I do agree about the drivethru stuff... it's always quicker to just go inside.

[newfangled]

The schools and Town have put up some signs in Cochrane around some of the schools, without passing any bylaws, and it has had decent effect here from what I've seen.

Seriously. Teach all the 6-year-olds that when mommy or daddy leaves the car running it is a VERY BAD THING. Little kids can be so earnest.

[freeweed]

I don't remember anyone saying that drunk driving laws werre unenforcable. Ever. Plus, the devestating effects of impared driving are readily apparent to anyone.

Then you've never grown up in an area where everyone drove drunk when these laws were introduced. ;) Trust me, the "pfff, that's unenforceable" comment came up a lot. And people are (mostly) right - what are the odds you'll ever get caught drinking and driving, so long as you don't cause an accident or aren't weaving all over the road? And "devastating effects"? Again, you had to grow up in the right time, I guess. It was only those OTHER drunks that caused accidents, *I* am perfectly safe behind the wheel drunk so long as I slow down a bit - if you've never heard that one, you're very lucky. One of the reasons we have such strict sentences these days is that earlier laws really WERE unenforceable, en masse. Most people just got away with it - and really, still could. We made the laws insanely harsh so that it was no longer worth taking the risk - yeah, it's a 1 in 10000 chance you're caught, but these days, it just ain't worth it.

You're right about the consequences of the action though. Don't get me wrong, I wasn't implying that drunk driving and idling are anywhere CLOSE to the same level of evil. But most people just don't drive drunk today, and it's little to do with the laws directly. There's huge societal pressure not to do it. 30 years ago no one would have batted an eye, maybe a joke like "hey buddy, get a cab HAR HAR HAR" but it really wasn't viewed as a crime with any consequence. The laws highlighted the stupidity of the action, and people stopped on their own. Other than the die hard idiots (who the law is really aimed at), very few people drive drunk these days, and a lot of it is peer pressure (and being made much more aware of the consequences of their actions).

Anyway, a bit of a flawed analogy, I'll give you that. But it's one of many examples I could use of "pfft, unenforceable" laws that ended up achieving their goal. Smoking habits are a big other, as you mentioned.

[Edmonchuck]

Then you've never grown up in an area where everyone drove drunk when these laws were introduced. ;)


Actually, I did.....and argued about the speeding ticket!

[Calgarian]

Good idea in theory, but will never pass as it is unenforceable (as was mentioned). If our federal government had any brains, they would make hybrid cars mandatory by a certain date, then this wouldn't be an issue as the cars electric motor would run instead of the gas engine while idling.

[You Need A Thneed]

It isn't always faster to go inside instead of using the drive thru. Some Restaurants maybe. The Wendy's near brentwood station in Calgary used to get us completely through the line (having paid and gotten our food) in under 30 seconds from when we drove into the drive through line. And there were two cars ahead of us that had to order before we did. I'm being completely serious, fastest drive though I've ever been through. The car would have been running longer had we parked.

But I don't think an anti-idling law really makes sense in this country without a temperature barrier in which the law is no longer in effect.

[kel]

I work outside all day And the only place to warm up at coffee time is in the truck. I would love to see the city try to inforce cold working stiffs like myself and ticket us for heating our trucks or cars when it is -30 out and We can't feel our fingers or toes.

[NumberFive]

I work outside all day And the only place to warm up at coffee time is in the truck. I would love to see the city try to inforce cold working stiffs like myself and ticket us for heating our trucks or cars when it is -30 out and We can't feel our fingers or toes.

Exactly... it's not a reasonable law to be enforcing here.

[Boris2k7]

But I don't think an anti-idling law really makes sense in this country without a temperature barrier in which the law is no longer in effect.

This would be a more than reasonable concession. Stick the mark at something like -20C and call it a day. :)

[newfangled]

But I don't think an anti-idling law really makes sense in this country without a temperature barrier in which the law is no longer in effect.

Folks in the US would say the same about their AC.

[You Need A Thneed]

Folks in the US would say the same about their AC.

They might say the same thing, but it's not the same. Cold engines don't run as efficiently, the wear and tear is much greater, plus an engine can start cooling off the car almost immediately after the engine is restarted, but it can't start heating the car for up to 15 minutes in very cold weather. Plus, there is the defrosting issue in cold weather, if you sit for a few minutes in a car in the cold without it running, the windows will be all fogged up. When it's hot and the car isn't running, you can roll down the windows, at least then it's no worse then just standing outside. When it's cold, there's nothing you can do except have the car heat on.

[Coldrsx]

but i think we can all agree it isnt just an idling issue, but a vehicular choice issue.

I have an s2k and while it is an extreme example, my car can literally heat up in 1min. The cabin is very small and so you turn car on, get comfy, drive off.

my mom's grand Cherokee isnt warm if we drive from the SW to WEM.

[KrisYYC]

The idlers that piss me off the most are guys with big diesel trucks who leave their fucking truck running in the parking lot while theyr'e grocery shopping or at the mall! I'm not talking just running in to grab some milk. I'm talking shopping for the better part of an hour. Their excuse is "diesels don't like to be stopped and started several times". That's true if it's every 30 seconds. But an hour? C'mon....

Maybe next time I'll stuff one of my potatoes I just bought in their tail pipe on the way out :D

[Edmonchuck]

Diesels, depending on temp, will HATE being restarted all the time - even hourly.

So, on a -5 day, it is pointless. -20, damn right you have to leave it running or plug it in. Now, that does NOT mean that people shouldn't respect the environment and get ther asses in and out of the store instead of waddling their McDonalds lard butt around the place for hours.