[MAH4546]

Miami-Dade County, yesterday approved a massive public works package that will finally give way to some projects that have been long the making. The plan includes:


New MLB stadium for Florida Marlins (who will change their name to the Miami Marlins)
A new soccer-only stadium for a proposed MLS team.
A new streetcar system running through downtown and midtown Miami.
A $1B tunnel running from the expressway to the Port, to divert truck traffic away from downtown.
$130M towards the new Museum Park project, including a new city park, science, and art museums.


Still a few more approvals needed, but there is no sign it won't get them all. The most crucial approvals have been granted, and there will be no public vote.

More on the streetcar:
http://miamigov.com/MiamiStreetcar/pages/

http://criticalmiami.com/images/443.gif

More on the port tunnel:
http://www.portofmiamitunnel.com/

http://criticalmiami.com/images/261.jpg

More on the Museum Park project:
http://www.ci.miami.fl.us/Planning/pages/urban_design/Bicentennial.asp

http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n12/MiamiCondoInvestments/MuseumParkMiamiplan2.jpg

More on the new Miami Art Museum:
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/30/arts/design/30herz.html?ref=arts

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2007/11/30/arts/30herz-2-650.jpg

More on the new Miami Science Museum:
http://www.miamisci.org/miasci/

[Crawford]

The Marlins are staying in Miami? That's pretty surprising. Why not go to a friendlier market?

I'm also a little surprised with the MLS franchise, given than MLS isn't yet in some larger and/or soccer-friendlier markets (Philly, Detroit, Seattle). I hope those MLS matches are all at night. I can't imagine playing soccer in South Florida on an August afternoon. :yuck:

Edit- just looked it up. Miami is dead last; 30th out of 30 teams for 2007. And it isn't the stadium. Other teams with "stadium issues" did a lot better.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/attendance

[Chicago3rd]

Wish they wouldn't call it public works. The to major league stadiums is not public works but corporate welfare (I said the same thing about Soldier Field too). They aren't public. They build places for companies....which turn around and charge the public to view their teams in.

But the rest of it looks very impressive. It is nice to see a southern city that is acting and thinking like a true urban environment. It has been on my short list of alternative places to live for a while now.

[VivaLFuego]

Wish they wouldn't call it public works. The to major league stadiums is not public works but corporate welfare (I said the same thing about Soldier Field too). They aren't public. They build places for companies....which turn around and charge the public to view their teams in.

But the rest of it looks very impressive. It is nice to see a southern city that is acting and thinking like a true urban environment. It has been on my short list of alternative places to live for a while now.

Agreed in full regarding stadium subsidization; such projects scream boondoggle. But at least there is some ambition on the part of municipal government.

[MAH4546]

The Marlins are staying in Miami? That's pretty surprising. Why not go to a friendlier market?

I'm also a little surprised with the MLS franchise, given than MLS isn't yet in some larger and/or soccer-friendlier markets (Philly, Detroit, Seattle). I hope those MLS matches are all at night. I can't imagine playing soccer in South Florida on an August afternoon. :yuck:

Miami is ridiculously soccer obsessed. This is a city with a strong Latin American heritage. You'd be hard-pressed to find another U.S. city that likes soccer as much as Miami does (outside of Los Angeles). The Orange Bowl typically fills up with friendly matches from Ecuador, Colombia, etc. In addition to luring an MLS franchise (they are rumored to be in discussions with Boca Junior of Argentina to be part-owner), it would host friendly tournaments, which are currently hosted at the Orange Bowl. Agree with you on the August weather, though. Definitely yuch.

As for the Miami Fusion, they didn't play in Miami. They played in Fort Lauderdale, despite the name.

Edit- just looked it up. Miami is dead last; 30th out of 30 teams for 2007. And it isn't the stadium. Other teams with "stadium issues" did a lot better.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/attendance

It isn't the stadium at all. It's the location. When you have a baseball stadium located practically in the everglades, in which you have to sit in rush hour traffic to get to a baseball game, with no rail transit, and in which the team keeps having to sell-off its players because it receives zero revenue from stadium concessions, parking, etc. it's not a surprise. The elements don't work together.

Baseball is an urban game and needs to be in a central location. Not that the new stadium will mean constant sell-outs, but 25,000-30,000 averages shouldn't be a problem. Plus, the stadium will be in Little Havana, the heart of Miami's baseball fan community. The Marlins want to stay in Miami for a few reasons, one of which is the television/radio contracts. The Marlins have extremely lucrative media contracts that make teams with better attendance record green with envy, and they get to double-up on them since they have contracts with English and Spanish radio and television. The Marlins have surprisingly robust television/radio ratings, which says something. Plus, MLB doesn't want to be without a team in Miami for obvious reasons.

[strongbad635]

>>>>It isn't the stadium at all. It's the location. When you have a baseball stadium located practically in the everglades, in which you have to sit in rush hour traffic to get to a baseball game, with no rail transit, and in which the team keeps having to sell-off its players because it receives zero revenue from stadium concessions, parking, etc. it's not a surprise. The elements don't work together. <<<

This is right on target. Miami-Dade county made a HUGE mistake by locating Pro Player Stadium on a cheap parcel of land out in the suburbs, far from transit or even an expressway. It's a logistic nightmare getting through that area at all on a game day, and the site is soulless and bland in character.

As a former student at the University of Miami, I loved going to football games because it's easy to get to the Orange Bowl on transit, and it's smack in the middle of a traditional neighborhood with tons of character, and places to go after the game. I was saddened and dismayed to learn that UM is abandoning the Orange Bowl to host games at Pro Player starting next year. It's going to be a million times harder for students to get all the way up to Miami Gardens, and after the games, the only places to go will be generic franchise fry pits in ugly strip malls (that you can't WALK to from the game, you'll need to drive or be driven).

I also agree with the stadium issue. If a franchise can't afford it's own park, than maybe it should raise ticket prices or reduce capacity. We don't pay the real price of going to a sports game in those expensive parks at all anymore. On the other hand, I'm not against government entities providing some funds to build these great places, but the funds should be given under the condition that the park be PUBLIC. That means it is owned by the city or county, and the franchise does not have the right to decide who and what goes in or out. If the citizens have ownership of the park itself, they might take some more pride in it and attend more games (like the park the Packers play in, which is owned by the citizens f Green Bay). Just forking over money to build a park is no different than a company bribing a city to build a factory for them because they'll "bring jobs." Welfare is welfare. I wouldn't dream of asking the City of Denver to build me a house because I teach in public school and give back to the city.

[brian_b]

That's a great plan, but how do they plan to pay for it? Florida is practically bankrupt right now and is getting pretty close to a taxpayer revolt which is going to hit Miami like a ton of bricks.

[Alliance]

[QUOTE=MAH4546;3235897]http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2007/11/30/arts/30herz-2-650.jpg

SWEeeeet!

[MAH4546]

That's a great plan, but how do they plan to pay for it? Florida is practically bankrupt right now and is getting pretty close to a taxpayer revolt which is going to hit Miami like a ton of bricks.

Talk about over-exaggeration.

There are no funding issues. The city just released a significant amount of tax money after, last week, they committed $500M to pay off the recently opened performing arts center, which had been funded by taxes. Miami has plenty of money in tourist tax dollars that will primarily be used for the stadium. The tunnel funding is already set, too, with contributions from all over, the largest chunk being the Florida Department of Transportation. The park complex is pocket change, only $130M, and most of the museum construction will be through private funding, much of which has already been raised. The soccer stadium will be another very small investment from the city - $50M - with the other $50M required to come from private investors. The street car project will be funded partly by a half-cent sales tax that is already in effect and pays for public transit projects.

[volguus zildrohar]

And they said the era of big public works projects is dead.

[Buckeye Native 001]

Good news for Miami, and especially the Marlins, considering the franchise's history (two world series victories for a decade-old team has to count for something, yeah?).

[BTinSF]

Agreed in full regarding stadium subsidization; such projects scream boondoggle. But at least there is some ambition on the part of municipal government.

Do as my town did--tell 'em to build it themselves (and we got a great result)!

[Peanut]

Good news for Miami, and especially the Marlins, considering the franchise's history (two world series victories for a decade-old team has to count for something, yeah?).

The Marlins need new ownership, someone who wont sell away all their talent/

[bobdreamz]

glad to see this has passed especially for the Port of Miami tunnel, the streetcar system and the Museum Park downtown ( Miami Art Museum & the Smithsonian affliated Miami Science Center).

As for the baseball stadium well I couldn't care less if the they built it or not. I say this as a very bitter Marlins fan who has seen two World Series championships and the total dismantling of both teams afterwards. The Marlins are great at turning over our best players to other teams. Watching Mike Lowell getting a championship in Boston was enough for me!

[brickell]

glad to see this has passed especially for the Port of Miami tunnel, the streetcar system and the Museum Park downtown ( Miami Art Museum & the Smithsonian affliated Miami Science Center).

As for the baseball stadium well I couldn't care less if the they built it or not. I say this as a very bitter Marlins fan who has seen two World Series championships and the total dismantling of both teams afterwards. The Marlins are great at turning over our best players to other teams. Watching Mike Lowell getting a championship in Boston was enough for me!

Agree completely. I was kind of hoping that Loria would just skip town. The shining ray of light is that the deal for the stadium is not complete yet. This only approves the funding for the stadium. The Marlins would be stupid not to take it, but there's still some argument about the Orange Bowl. Until they can get the kinks ironed out and a contract signed it's not a done deal.

[Buckeye Native 001]

Why haven't Marlins fans made an effort to run Loria out of town yet, or have they and its been fruitless?

[brickell]

We stopped going to games, what else can we do?
I blame MLB and Bud Selig for allowing all this to happen. I have no faith that a new stadium will fix anything with this franchise until Loria is out.

[MAH4546]

While it is easy to put all the blame on Loria, the fact remains that being in Dolphins Stadium puts the Marlins at a significant financial disadvantage and baseball team owners aren't supposed to lose money "just because." And the significant disadvantage doesn't even come from the stadium's terrible location. It derives from the simple fact that they get virtually no concessions form the stadium. None from parking, none from food sales, none from naming rights. It sucks. If it weren't for the fact the Marlins have a great TV/radio contract, they probably wouldn't still be in Miami, because they wouldn't be able to afford to stay on such a terrible stadium contract. The new stadium will end this deficiency in revenue streams and create a more stable baseball team. A new stadium will, most likely, fix the franchises' inconsistencies because it provides a stable revenue stream and a stable future.

You can't blame a guy that much for not wanting to take on heavy losses. That's ridiculous. Just because he's rich doesn't mean he is supposed to sit around and lose money for the sake of it.

[brickell]

This is off topic, but Loria brought in much more money in league money than he ever put into payroll. Last report I saw had him bringing in $60M this year from the league and a payroll expected to be just over $10M. Throw on top of that radio and tv deals and you really believe he isn't making a profit? Yes, the stadium is a bad deal, but Loria goes beyond that. He's a bad owner. Period. A stadium won't fix that.

[alex1]

besides expanding transit and giving more money to museums (which has greater returns then sports when it comes to tourism) and parks, I don't necessarily think this is a positive situation for Miami.

the stadiums are a problem IMO. I think all publically funded stadiums are problematic since communities can better use that money for more important things (like even more transit, bettering schools, job training, assimilation programs for immigrants...).

[MAH4546]

the stadiums are a problem IMO. I think all publically funded stadiums are problematic since communities can better use that money for more important things (like even more transit, bettering schools, job training, assimilation programs for immigrants...).

Except for the fact that the tourist tax dollars being used to build the stadium can only be used for convention facilities, sports venues, and other facilities fitting under certain descriptions (all relating back to the same primary purpose - public hosting venues).

[alex1]

Except for the fact that the tourist tax dollars being used to build the stadium can only be used for convention facilities, sports venues, and other facilities fitting under certain descriptions (all relating back to the same primary purpose - public hosting venues).

what? tourist tax dollars can be spent for things like baseball and soccer but not bettering the community in other ways?

please tell me this isn't so.

personally, the best thing florida can do for itself is to put more money in education and less in sports. The place is actually drowning in sports right now yet its major colleges and universities lag the rest of the country. the primary school system is also fairly poor.

[UrbanImpact]

what? tourist tax dollars can be spent for things like baseball and soccer but not bettering the community in other ways?

please tell me this isn't so.

personally, the best thing florida can do for itself is to put more money in education and less in sports. The place is actually drowning in sports right now yet its major colleges and universities lag the rest of the country. the primary school system is also fairly poor.

Exactly! I think Education and Transportation should be first............both are lacking, especially here in South Florida.

[streetscaper]

great projects. let's hope they get on these soon!

[MAH4546]

what? tourist tax dollars can be spent for things like baseball and soccer but not bettering the community in other ways?

please tell me this isn't so.


In Miami-Dade County, tourist taxes collected from hotel stays ("bed tax") cannot be used to fund transit or education. Their use is limited to things such as convention centers, art centers, museums, stadiums, etc.

And it makes perfect sense. You can't just put everything to transit and education, you need to spread it around. Having the county bed taxes dedicated to culture facilities is a great idea.

[James Bond Agent 007]

Good news for Miami!

Where do they plan on putting the baseball stadium? Or have they not decided yet?

[MAH4546]

Good news for Miami!

Where do they plan on putting the baseball stadium? Or have they not decided yet?

In Little Havana, where the Orange Bowl currently sits.

[Jasonhouse]

wrong forum... No project development news of any kind goes in City Discussions, ever.