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View Full Version : Atlanta: redeveloping the Gulch



trainiac
Dec 19, 2007, 7:29 PM
After the recent announcement of the Green Line redevelopment of the gulch
link to CAP plan (http://www.atlantadowntown.com/CapAdidInitiatives_Green_Line.asp)

I remembered an old plan that was in the original AIA guide from the 1970s
http://www.atlhistory.com/images/stories/skyscraper/gulch/gulch-1976plan.JPG

This one was way more pie-in-the-sky and as you can see, not very friendly looking. But does address the giant null
area created by all the rail cutting through the heart of town and the holes left by the many viaducts built to brid
ge it.

The new plan on the other hand has a number of very cool features.

http://www.atlhistory.com/images/stories/skyscraper/gulch/gulch-west.png
(where 1 is the multimodal passenger terminal and 6 is the park around old Spring street which can be closed to traffic for events)

New Spring Street cutting down to Mitchell

Wall and Alabama continuing all the way to Centennial Olympic Park Drive.

We could certainly utilize the skills builders are learning while developing a similar viaduct-filling construction at Atlantic Station.

The multimodal plan with bus depot on the concourse level (ie one level below the viaducts)
http://www.atlhistory.com/images/stories/skyscraper/gulch/gulch-concourse.png

and commuter rail platforms and a platform for Amtrak on the ground level
http://www.atlhistory.com/images/stories/skyscraper/gulch/gulch-ground.png

The redesigned plaza and east entrance to Underground looks better but I'm not really that excited by it.

On whole the Green Line looks extremely cool. Let's do it

echinatl
Dec 19, 2007, 8:30 PM
I like this being it's own thread. I am all for this plan. Has there been any additional news?

I recall reading that GSU was going to be adding 500 new student housing rooms each year for the next 10 years, is this going to start next year or has it already started? This is what is supposed to kick start this project correct?

Fiorenza
Dec 19, 2007, 8:35 PM
Having driven on Lower Forsyth last night...yes, the area needs a leg up. I don't mean take out all the shops, but a redesign of some sort is in order. Also, a little further south on Forsyth is the intersection with parking lots on three corners. It's rather desolate down there at night.

SAV
Dec 19, 2007, 11:35 PM
You mean ATL has been planning this for 30 years too..........

gttx
Dec 19, 2007, 11:42 PM
You mean ATL has been planning this for 30 years too..........

It's funny - a ton of these "new urbanism" projects are really just reincarnations of plans for projects from 40 years ago. It's a fairly obvious trend, though. Back then, the city was doing quite well, and was undoubtedly looking to improve things so it could do even better. The opening of the interstates, among other things (including the so-called "white flight"), really took a toll on the inner-city. We still aren't back to Atlanta's peak population, but as people begin moving back to the city, officials are finally resurrecting plans for improving it. Sure, they're 40 years old, but they are just as relevant as ever.

SAV
Dec 20, 2007, 12:12 AM
OMG. If this project, the beltline, streetcar, lightrail, commuter rail, and Streets of Buckhead and all the other PLANS happen. THis place will be such a world class city.

Dragonheart8588
Dec 20, 2007, 1:12 AM
OMG. If this project, the beltline, streetcar, lightrail, commuter rail, and Streets of Buckhead and all the other PLANS happen. THis place will be such a world class city.

But I have to emphasize on your word "IF". I mean I would love to have all of these plans to happen in the next 10-15 years if possible, but it is a BIG if.

Trae
Dec 20, 2007, 2:22 AM
How does a "Streets of Buckhead" make a city world class? I agree on the other things, but Streets of Buckhead?

NativeAtlantan
Dec 20, 2007, 2:35 AM
Yes, add me to the list of people who are very excited by this. The idea of having a multi-modal transit hub like what is shown above is about the coolest thing I could think of that might happen for this city. Well, maybe behind the BeltLine.

sprtsluvr8
Dec 20, 2007, 5:12 AM
How does a "Streets of Buckhead" make a city world class? I agree on the other things, but Streets of Buckhead?

I think he was saying that completion of all of the proposed projects combined - the Beltline and other transportation projects, museums, road improvements, etc - along with the Streets of Buckhead, would elevate the city's status quite a bit. We want Atlanta to be the most popular girl in school... :rolleyes:

Fiorenza
Dec 20, 2007, 5:35 AM
The east-west loop of the streetcar needs to traverse the gulch area, with stops in proximity to Philips Arena, the (proposed) intermodal, Underground, the state capitol, etc.

Tombstoner
Dec 20, 2007, 12:27 PM
The layout looks good, but I think the most significant thing about this proposal is almost symbolic: a major (and concrete) sign that Atlanta is working towards a vision. That in itself won't make Atlanta "world-class" or "popular" to the outside world, but it would be a psychological tsunami to local politicians and stakeholders. It would shift attention and resources to a "center." Who knows where that could lead? Potentially very exciting.

Fiorenza
Dec 20, 2007, 1:59 PM
Yeah, but remember the political leeches will say "what's in it for me".

Tombstoner
Dec 20, 2007, 2:48 PM
:previous: I think the trick is to create "facts on the ground" that can't be ignored. Once you have a really high-profile Multi-Modal Transport Hub, I think a lot of transit proposals become more feasible and harder to sidetrack (though I never underestimate the power of policitians to exact their pound of flesh).

megalopolis
Dec 20, 2007, 9:49 PM
The east-west loop of the streetcar needs to traverse the gulch area, with stops in proximity to Philips Arena, the (proposed) intermodal, Underground, the state capitol, etc.


Doesn't it? The latest proposed route takes the Streetcar right by the MARTA 5 Points station, which is near all of that.

SAV
Dec 21, 2007, 12:16 AM
They should build some type of World trade Center type of place on the other side of the plaza near the new Transit Hub and Cnn center area. Or maybe 3- 5 really tall skycrapers like the Renaissance Center in Detroit. Maybe UPS some other big company can have their headquaters there or something.

Wouldn't that be cool

atlanta_transit
Dec 21, 2007, 5:44 AM
It's pretty cool - but I think there is too much parking for a downtown area, it undermines the transit system and uses up a lot of land for parking decks in the middle of downtown. Look at other major cities like DC, New York or even Los Angeles and they don't have that much parking...

Andrea
Dec 21, 2007, 11:27 AM
It's pretty cool - but I think there is too much parking for a downtown area, it undermines the transit system and uses up a lot of land for parking decks in the middle of downtown. Look at other major cities like DC, New York or even Los Angeles and they don't have that much parking...

This plan does have a ton of parking lots but you have to remember this is Atlanta.

One other question. If we get another Amtrak plaform does that mean we'll be getting more trains? Right now the only Amtrak platform we have is Brookwood Station, but we also only have one train. I'd love to see the trains come back to Atlanta but is that realistic?

sabino86
Jan 6, 2008, 12:53 AM
I hope to God this gets built. :rolleyes:

dante2308
Jan 23, 2008, 2:07 AM
It's pretty cool - but I think there is too much parking for a downtown area, it undermines the transit system and uses up a lot of land for parking decks in the middle of downtown. Look at other major cities like DC, New York or even Los Angeles and they don't have that much parking...

We have to remember that it is a transit hub after all. At least the thinking is that this will work to get people out of their cars and into the transit infrastructure. I'm all for underground parking if it gets some commercial and residential projects off the ground. Hopefully, it will be tastefully done.

smArTaLlone
Jan 23, 2008, 2:33 PM
Georgia museum on fiscal wish list:
Perdue's 2009 plan also seeks car-free Capitol Hill corridor

Gov. Sonny Perdue wants the state to spend $26.5 million next year to turn the old World of Coca-Cola building next to Underground Atlanta into a state history museum and to start remaking much of Capitol Hill into a car-free pedestrian corridor.

In addition to the new museum, the ambitious plan tentatively includes:

> Closing Mitchell Street next to the Capitol and turning it into a pedestrian plaza.

> Tearing down the Department of Transportation building at Mitchell Street and Capitol Avenue and building a parking facility.

> Rerouting Capitol Avenue through what is now a parking lot and deck across from the Capitol.

> Adding a pedestrian bridge over I-75/I-85 to connect a huge new lawn area in front of the Capitol with a new park along Memorial Drive.

The money, proposed by Perdue in his budget plan for the 2009 fiscal year that begins July 1, would pay for renovating the Coca-Cola building and preparing the state history museum. It also would provide design money for the other projects.

AJC article (http://www.ajc.com/search/content/metro/stories/2008/01/21/caphill0121a.html)

johnandahalf
Jan 30, 2008, 2:14 PM
I still wish the gulch would be turned into a red light district with casinos & brothels.

echinatl
Jan 30, 2008, 4:39 PM
I still wish the gulch would be turned into a red light district with casinos & brothels.

YES!

Dragonheart8588
Jan 31, 2008, 4:17 PM
I still wish the gulch would be turned into a red light district with casinos & brothels.

I don't think we need brothels. Georgia have the highest ranking for STDs.

Behind_Phips
Jan 31, 2008, 4:22 PM
I don't think we need brothels. Georgia have the highest ranking for STDs.

Thanks for the buzz kill Dragonheart. :(

Dragonheart8588
Jan 31, 2008, 4:29 PM
Thanks for the buzz kill Dragonheart. :(

Glad I did my part! :haha: :P ;)

trnsplnt
Jan 31, 2008, 6:10 PM
Upon reading this post my initial reaction was What The Hell!

So, curiously, I clicked through to the link on AJC.com...

Closing Mitchell Street to traffic has been advocated for years, because lawmakers, state staffers and others working in the area have to cross it frequently to walk between the Capitol and the Legislative Office Building. Drivers often ignore signs outside the Capitol instructing them to yield to pedestrians crossing the street and most statehouse veterans have stories about almost being run over there.


A piece of advise: Look both ways. No, in fact, Mitchell is a one way, you would only have to bother to look one.


The state has a history museum, of sorts, inside the Capitol. During various times, it has included stuffed squirrels playing poker, animals suspended from the ceiling, a remarkable collection of old guns, historic flags, political paraphernalia, minerals native to the state and a two-headed calf and a two-headed snake.


*channeling Sherif Barney* "Well that there snake's got TWO heads don't it Andy!"

And finally after having actually read the article my final thoughts are What The BLOODY Hell?!?

Is it just me or does this initiative, less the "mall-esque" public space spanning the Connector, seem complete tom foolery?

Behind_Phips
Jan 31, 2008, 8:13 PM
Upon reading this post my initial reaction was What The Hell!

So, curiously, I clicked through to the link on AJC.com...



A piece of advise: Look both ways. No, in fact, Mitchell is a one way, you would only have to bother to look one.




*channeling Sherif Barney* "Well that there snake's got TWO heads don't it Andy!"

And finally after having actually read the article my final thoughts are What The BLOODY Hell?!?

Is it just me or does this initiative, less the "mall-esque" public space spanning the Connector, seem complete tom foolery?

Remember you live in GA. Sounds like our capital museum may be more like a Ripley's Believe It Or Not. Definitely something to take your friends from the North to. :rolleyes:

(four 0 four)
Jan 31, 2008, 9:17 PM
A piece of advise: Look both ways. No, in fact, Mitchell is a one way, you would only have to bother to look one.
I lived in a loft on Mitchell several years ago...it would be prudent to look both ways.:)

Andrea
Feb 1, 2008, 12:05 AM
*channeling Sherif Barney* "Well that there snake's got TWO heads don't it Andy!"

Whoa! I'd like to see how many other states have a two-headed snake.

Fiorenza
Feb 1, 2008, 6:32 AM
Took a quick detour off the connector yesterday:

Phase 1 overview from Memorial Drive....that modern building (is it the "Taj Mahal"?) may be visible when looking toward the Capitol from the park...maybe not
http://www.taxangle.com/images/mall/2.jpg

Looking eastward - MLK Blvd. on your left, Memorial Dr. on your right
http://www.taxangle.com/images/mall/3.jpg

Looking back towards the Capitol. The mall lawn would be suitable for events and gatherings
http://www.taxangle.com/images/mall/4.jpg

North of MLK is another redevelopment area
http://www.taxangle.com/images/mall/5.jpg

Looking toward the Capitol with the mall strip in the foreground. Memorial on the left, MLK on the right
http://www.taxangle.com/images/mall/6.jpg

Looking the other direction from preceding view. The rib shack goes. Two or three businesses within the mall area, between this point and Oakland Cemetery, are still operational at present (Memorial Dr. on the right).
http://www.taxangle.com/images/mall/9.jpg

Multi-use, recently upgraded structures north of MLK, looking toward Oakland Cemetery
http://www.taxangle.com/images/mall/7.jpg

Looking west from Oakland Cemetery entrance. The cleared lot was recently bought by the city. The mall begins from here all the way to the Capitol.
http://www.taxangle.com/images/mall/8.jpg

I'm sure someone here can tell us what this is - I don't know
http://www.taxangle.com/images/mall/10.jpg

The once Grady Homes community...the new (mixed-income development?) has another name.
http://www.taxangle.com/images/mall/11.jpg

GTviajero81
Feb 2, 2008, 6:03 AM
Fiorenza, great photo perspective. :)

kennethdisraili
Apr 27, 2008, 12:47 AM
How does a "Streets of Buckhead" make a city world class? I agree on the other things, but Streets of Buckhead?

Trae, many cities are truley judged by the amount of super luxury retail that they have.:cool:

Chris Creech
Apr 27, 2008, 4:46 PM
Looking the other direction from preceding view. The rib shack goes. Two or three businesses within the mall area, between this point and Oakland Cemetery, are still operational at present (Memorial Dr. on the right).
http://www.taxangle.com/images/mall/9.jpg

Some people may judge cities by their luxury retail, others judge a great city by it's great barbeque!

Andrea
Apr 27, 2008, 6:44 PM
Chris, have you caught Atlanta’s Best BBQ-Quest: Kissed by Fire (http://www.pba.org/programming/programs/bbq/)? It's supposed to be on again this evening.

They had a nice segment on Daddy D’z and several other barbecue joints around town, including my personal favorite, Harold's.

sprtsluvr8
Apr 27, 2008, 8:25 PM
Some people may judge cities by their luxury retail, others judge a great city by it's great barbeque!

Not to worry people...there is another Rib Shack up the street from me - and possibly others around as well. The place does cook a mean pig...

smArTaLlone
Apr 27, 2008, 9:28 PM
If this is on Dekalb I believe its called Pencil Factory lofts.
http://www.taxangle.com/images/mall/10.jpg

http://www.perennialproperties.net/images2/banners-632x238/p-apt-lg-penclrender.jpg

Andrea
Apr 27, 2008, 11:24 PM
Ooh, I like that a lot! I was wondering what was going up there. Great use of that narrow space.

:tup:

bkporter12
Apr 28, 2008, 12:32 AM
Georgia museum on fiscal wish list:
Perdue's 2009 plan also seeks car-free Capitol Hill corridor

Gov. Sonny Perdue wants the state to spend $26.5 million next year to turn the old World of Coca-Cola building next to Underground Atlanta into a state history museum and to start remaking much of Capitol Hill into a car-free pedestrian corridor.

In addition to the new museum, the ambitious plan tentatively includes:

> Closing Mitchell Street next to the Capitol and turning it into a pedestrian plaza.

> Tearing down the Department of Transportation building at Mitchell Street and Capitol Avenue and building a parking facility.

> Rerouting Capitol Avenue through what is now a parking lot and deck across from the Capitol.

> Adding a pedestrian bridge over I-75/I-85 to connect a huge new lawn area in front of the Capitol with a new park along Memorial Drive.

The money, proposed by Perdue in his budget plan for the 2009 fiscal year that begins July 1, would pay for renovating the Coca-Cola building and preparing the state history museum. It also would provide design money for the other projects.

AJC article (http://www.ajc.com/search/content/metro/stories/2008/01/21/caphill0121a.html)

Does anyone else think it's kinda funny that we're tearing down the Dept of Transportation to build a ......... parking deck? :haha: :notacrook: :jester:

echinatl
Apr 28, 2008, 1:37 PM
Does anyone else think it's kinda funny that we're tearing down the Dept of Transportation to build a ......... parking deck? :haha: :notacrook: :jester:

Any new information on this? I can't understand why there isn't more development by Phillips/CNN/Dome. Thousands are drawn to that spot every day and there is nothing to keep the people there when the games/concerts are out.

sprtsluvr8
Apr 28, 2008, 4:56 PM
Any new information on this? I can't understand why there isn't more development by Phillips/CNN/Dome. Thousands are drawn to that spot every day and there is nothing to keep the people there when the games/concerts are out.

Isn't there a project or two under construction in that vicinity? There are a couple of "things to do" by Phillips/Ga Dome...Centennial Park, the Aquarium, WOC, Fairlie-Poplar, restaurants/bars, Rialto Theater. I was thinking that Centennial Park and Allen Plaza were already the hottest development areas Downtown...

echinatl
Apr 28, 2008, 7:13 PM
Isn't there a project or two under construction in that vicinity? There are a couple of "things to do" by Phillips/Ga Dome...Centennial Park, the Aquarium, WOC, Fairlie-Poplar, restaurants/bars, Rialto Theater. I was thinking that Centennial Park and Allen Plaza were already the hottest development areas Downtown...

you are correct, and it's getting better. Can't wait for the hardrock to take out that school, and although I take my car to Mayfield Motors, they have to go as well! The amount of foot traffic in the area is impressive but it still needs some more cafe's and maybe some bar's. Stats seems to me like they have been doing really well so it seems the need is there.

The area directly across Phillips just seems like it would be so easy to develop, and would do well because of the amount of people drawn to the area every day. I know there are never sure things but this seems close to me. I think the location of the downtown Taco Mac is a little odd as well. Anyone know when they are supposed to open? That mellow mushroom needs to open soon too!

trainiac
Apr 29, 2008, 4:30 AM
The area directly across Phillips just seems like it would be so easy to develop, and would do well because of the amount of people drawn to the area every day. I know there are never sure things but this seems close to me.

Does Cousins still own the air rights to all the CNN decks? I know they did in the 80s and 90s. I agree, that could be a real bonanza. I love the gulch stuff but if there was a way to stitch Philips/Dome down to Castleberry, I mean, wow. I'm guessing Norfolk Southern has the rights along the viaducts where Techwood Dr (now Centennial Olympic Park Blvd) hit Mitchell and MLK but building stuff on tall, Atlanta-Station-style stilts there would definitely do the trick to connect those two activity centers.

BTW, if you haven't been over by Castleberry Point lately, it's looking awesome!