[Marty_Mcfly]

Number 4 (possibly) for St. John's

EDIT: Police said the death wasn't suspicious...I'm assuming whoever lit this car on fire was too stupid to step away from the car when throwing the match.

Body Found in Vehicle

The RNC is investigating after a body was found in a vehicle that was found on fire on Three Island Pond Road in Topsail. Arson investigators have been called in and the investigation is continuing. Police are expected to have further details on the matter later today.

Another vehicle fire that happened on Oxen Pond Road is under investigation by the RNC. Police describe the vehicle as an older model van that had been stolen earlier at the Avalon Mall. It was destroyed by the fire. No arrests have been made.

And the investigation continues into a vehicle fire on Western Island Pond Drive. There is no word on the extent of the damage.

http://vocm.com/newsarticle.asp?mn=2&ID=18800

[Blitz]

Windsor is at 26 months murder-free!

[PhilippeMtl]

Salvatore Montagna, ex Boss of the New York Bonanno family was killed earlier today in Montreal North Shore

http://images.lpcdn.ca/569x379/201111/24/434061-mafioso-salvatore-montagna-ete-assassine.jpg


http://www.montrealgazette.com/news/Reputed+mobster+Montagna+killed/5762200/story.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salvatore_Montagna

[Acajack]

Salvatore Montagna, ex Boss of the New York Bonanno family was killed earlier today in Montreal North Shore

http://images.lpcdn.ca/569x379/201111/24/434061-mafioso-salvatore-montagna-ete-assassine.jpg


http://www.montrealgazette.com/news/Reputed+mobster+Montagna+killed/5762200/story.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salvatore_Montagna

Quite the picture there... :(

[Cre47]

Windsor is at 26 months murder-free!

http://www.ottawacitizen.com/news/Windsor+sees+first+homicide+years/5766444/story.html

[Symz]

Windsor is at 26 months murder-free!

Nope, we had our first homicide yesterday. A 26 month stretch is very good though, it's too bad it came to an end.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/windsor/story/2011/11/25/wdr-stabbing.html

My mistake, I didn't notice the posted link above.

[Wharn]

Even though the homicide-free record was broken, Windsor should be extremely proud of itself. 26 months and only 1 murder is a very impressive feat for any city over 100,000 people. London, in comparison, had its sixth homicide of the year about a week ago, which took place at a tenement in a distressed part of the downtown. Very sad considering that this time last year we were at half that number. I wish people here would have the same sort of civic pride that you find in Windsor, although that being said we're still thankful this ain't Regina.

http://www.lfpress.com/news/london/2011/11/17/18984376.html

[Rusty van Reddick]

London has "tenements"? Really?

[vid]

London has "tenements"? Really?

A tenement is, in most English-speaking areas, a substandard multi-family dwelling, usually old, occupied by the poor.

A run-down apartment building full of low-income people would be a tenement. It's an uncommon word for such a building though. I don't know about London, but Thunder Bay has been putting effort into shutting tenements down over the past few years. Most in my neighbourhood have been condemned, but a few exist. One of them has fire damage and is occupied by about 20 people from the north who had nowhere else to go.

Calgary might not have this issue because it is a newer, richer city, but in poorer eastern cities, run down multi-unit housing is a problem, primarily caused by neglectful or absentee landlords (aka slumlords).

I wish people here would have the same sort of civic pride that you find in Windsor

How does civic pride affect murder rates?

[drew]

Even though the homicide-free record was broken, Windsor should be extremely proud of itself. 26 months and only 1 murder is a very impressive feat for any city over 100,000 people. London, in comparison, had its sixth homicide of the year about a week ago, which took place at a tenement in a distressed part of the downtown. Very sad considering that this time last year we were at half that number. I wish people here would have the same sort of civic pride that you find in Windsor, although that being said we're still thankful this ain't Regina.

I don't get this statement at all.

If we are going to reach to the idea that a city can be "proud of itself", how does "civic pride" enter into when or how a murder happens?

Murders are basically impossible to predict, or prevent. And they almost always happen between people who know each other. Do you think any would be murderer or victim is wondering at the point the violence occurs that "hey, what will the good citizens of the community think!".

Good grief. Murders suck. But don't judge a community based on the fact some douchebag decides to stab his buddy to death in a drunken stupor (this isn't based on any specific crime, just an example of a common murder scenario in Winnipeg).

[Biff]

^^^ i have thought about murder quite a few times, but i consider myself a huge supporter of Winnipeg and i just couldn't live with myself if i damaged the city's civic pride. So knowing that i have refrained..........for now:sly:




................i have said too much

[LeftCoaster]

haha yep, that's the only thing stopping me from going on a homicidal rampage... I don't want to tarnish Toronto's squeaky clean image!

[Blitz]

Son of a bitch, I totally jinxed it!

[Rico Rommheim]

Salvatore Montagna, ex Boss of the New York Bonanno family was killed earlier today in Montreal North Shore

http://images.lpcdn.ca/569x379/201111/24/434061-mafioso-salvatore-montagna-ete-assassine.jpg


http://www.montrealgazette.com/news/Reputed+mobster+Montagna+killed/5762200/story.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salvatore_Montagna

wow that's not something you see everyday...

[mr.John]

Sal's effort to become capo didn't end too well,more to follow it's payback time

[Marty_Mcfly]

One dead in suspicious St. John's fire

A man is dead following what police describe as a "suspicious" fire in St. John's early Sunday morning.

A spokesperson for the Royal Newfoundland Constabulary said firefighters were called to a home on Springdale Street around 4 a.m.

Apart from the victim, there were four other people in the house.

Three of the people suffered injuries and were taken to hospital. A fourth person was also taken to hospital and has been detained as a person of interest in the investigation.

Police say an autopsy will be performed on the victim to determine the cause of death.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/newfoundland-labrador/story/2011/11/27/nl-fatal-house-fire-1127.html

Number four for St. John's. I'm assuming anyway that arson when knowing well that people were inside the house SHOULD lead to murder and attempted murder. But yet again, anything is possible with the RNC (ie. a drug dealer was stabbed, shot and left for dead last month downtown, and the men who did it were only charged with robbery with violence and aggravated assault. But not the obvious attempted murder charge)

[vid]

I don't think Canada has an "attempted murder" charge, because I have never seen it used either.

[Marty_Mcfly]

I don't think Canada has an "attempted murder" charge, because I have never seen it used either.

I've only ever seen it used here when coupled with a murder charge. Like when someone stabs 2 people, and one of them die, the aggravated assault charge against the survivor is upgraded to attempted murder. I've seen a lot of attempted murder charges laid in Halifax though, so I don't know if it's a provincial thing or not.

[vid]

A man here went on a rampage in an apartment building, threatening and stabbing elderly people until police took him down, and his highest charge was "theft over $5,000".

The charges include one count of Aggravated Assault, two counts of Assault with a Weapon, two charges of Uttering a Threat, one charge of Resisting a Peace Officer, and one count of Theft over $5000.

...

The condition of the 77 year old victim has been upgraded to stable condition in hospital. According to earlier reports, the stabbing victim was in serious condition.

http://netnewsledger.com/2011/10/09/charges-laid-in-andras-court-stabbing-incident/

Probably not a good comparison though since he is mentally deranged. (Part of Harris's "the criminally insane can live peaceful lives with elderly people and children" legacy.)

[Marty_Mcfly]

It's insane, really. Theft over 5000? That's nowhere near as serious of a crime than he should have been charged with.

UPDATE: 16 year old boy was charged with numerous arson charges, including disregard for human life, but no homicide charge. Other charges may be pending, but it sounds like the justice system is about to fail once again.

Updated: youth charged with arson for deadly house fire

A man died early Sunday morning in a suspicious house fire in St. John’s and police have arrested a 16-year-old in relation to the case.

The RNC and firefighters were called to Springdale Street at about 4 a.m. this morning only to find the house engulfed in flames. Four people made it out of the home, one by jumping from the upstairs window, but the body of the fifth person, a 54-year-old man, was discovered after the fire had been extinguished.

A male youth was detained at the scene and police have now charged him with with three counts of arson, disregard for human life and one count or arson relating to property damage. Additional criminal code charges are pending.

The RNC is asking anyone with information relating to this fire to contact them immediately at 729-8000 or Crime Stoppers at 1-800-222-TIPS (8477).

Check Monday's Telegram for the full story.

http://www.thetelegram.com/News/Local/2011-11-27/article-2816388/Updated-youth-charged-with-arson-for-deadly-house-fire/1

[vid]

It's insane, really. Theft over 5000? That's nowhere near as serious of a crime than he should have been charged with.

I think it is relating to the fact that he got into a police car and started reading biblical scripture over the loudspeaker, saying he was the second coming of Jesus. There have been a lot of second comings of Jesus lately.

[Wharn]

London has "tenements"? Really?
Yes, without question it does. Not many but they are around.


Murders are basically impossible to predict, or prevent. And they almost always happen between people who know each other. Do you think any would be murderer or victim is wondering at the point the violence occurs that "hey, what will the good citizens of the community think!".

Good grief. Murders suck. But don't judge a community based on the fact some douchebag decides to stab his buddy to death in a drunken stupor (this isn't based on any specific crime, just an example of a common murder scenario in Winnipeg).

The term "Civic Pride" includes many things, one of which is the treatment of your fellow citizen (and all humans, for that matter). Sure, creating a good image for your community through positive action is one aspect of it, but that is not necessarily what I had in mind. Anyways, if enough people are murdering each other, it makes a very clear statement about either the social makeup and/or the economic circumstances of the community.

London and Windsor really are not so different. They're both stagnant industrial cities, they've both been hit by the collapse of the auto sector, and they both have high unemployment. There is no excuse for one city to have a dozen murder in the same period a very similar city has none.

[Marty_Mcfly]

Youth charged in fatal house fire makes court appearance

A 16-year-old male charged in relation to a fire on Springdale Street in St. John’s Sunday in which a 54-year-old man died, appeared in court today.
The youth is facing four arson-related charges — three causing bodily harm and one of damage to property.

The court was told today that further charges may be laid.

The youth will be back in court again on Tuesday for a status update on the case.

Meantime, RNC Const. Suzanne FitzGerald said its investigation into the incident is continuing and that more charges relating to culpable homicide may be laid against the accused.

However, she cautioned it is too early to speculate on where the investigation may proceed.

FitzGerald said there remains information to analyze, including physical evidence and forensic interviews, and the RNC also awaits the findings of the Office of the Chief Medical Examiner on the cause of death.

RNC fire investigators and members of its forensic unit remained at the scene of the blaze on Monday.

Firefighters were called to the scene just before 4 a.m. Sunday with fire and heavy smoke visible in the home.

There were five people in the house at the time of the fire — four got out and were taken to hospital.

http://www.thetelegram.com/News/Local/2011-11-28/article-2819080/Youth-charged-in-fatal-house-fire-makes-court-appearance/1

Maybe justice will be served after all.

[vid]

I wonder what their relationship was. One of Thunder Bay's homicides a few years ago was a teenage boy who was "renting" a room from an older man, killing him then driving his body out to the bush in his car and lighting in on fire. Strange coincidence how similar events happen over such a large area without any interaction of the participants.

No idea how that court case turned out now that I think of it. Probably the same ol' "traumatic childhood" slap-on-the-wrist (not that I advocate hard prison time for the mentally distressed).

[Marty_Mcfly]

I wonder what their relationship was. One of Thunder Bay's homicides a few years ago was a teenage boy who was "renting" a room from an older man, killing him then driving his body out to the bush in his car and lighting in on fire. Strange coincidence how similar events happen over such a large area without any interaction of the participants.

No idea how that court case turned out now that I think of it. Probably the same ol' "traumatic childhood" slap-on-the-wrist (not that I advocate hard prison time for the mentally distressed).

I think the same thing is going to play out here. CBC news reported that the house was a boarding home which all of the occupants were renting rooms out of. The 16-year-old was supposedly a troubled teen who for some reason was living away from his parents at this boarding house. He's been in trouble with the law before: apparently he was one of the three teens who stole a car a few months ago, got in a high-speed chase with the police, and crashed the car through a fence onto a busy parkway just two minutes away from my house. I don't believe he was ever caught, as the boys fled the scene.

Whether such an arson was pre-meditated or not I'm not sure, but his neighbor who would make occasional small-talk with the young boy, who supposedly 4-5 days ago told the man that he had to "get out of that house, because shit was about to hit the fan."

Troubled teen, troubled past, troubled future. It's been seen before.

[Marty_Mcfly]

Body found in St. John's park

The Royal Newfoundland Constabulary reports that human remains have been found in Bowring Park.

The St. John’s park is a popular area for runners and walkers but on Saturday the area around the swan pens was taken over by RNC officers. Police have closed a section of the park for the investigation.

Police got the call that a body had been found in a waterway running along the park’s greenhouse at 9:10 a.m. Saturday.

The deceased is a 28-years-old adult male. His family has been notified of his death.

The investigation into this case will be ongoing and the RNC will be trying to determine the cause of death.

http://www.thetelegram.com/News/Local/2011-12-03/article-2824097/Body-found-in-St-Johns-park/1

Maybe number 5 now for St. John's

[MrChills]

http://www.thetelegram.com/News/Local/2011-12-03/article-2824097/Body-found-in-St-Johns-park/1

Maybe number 5 now for St. John's

I think you'll see murder rates rise significantly in St. John's It's been one of the few cities in Canada to have major crime increases (especially violence based) over the past 5 years. I know the St. John's that I grew up for years is not the same place it was when moved back and lived there for three years up until last year. Hard drug use is rampant, with a growing divide between the rice and poor that is not helping any.

[Marty_Mcfly]

I think you'll see murder rates rise significantly in St. John's It's been one of the few cities in Canada to have major crime increases (especially violence based) over the past 5 years. I know the St. John's that I grew up for years is not the same place it was when moved back and lived there for three years up until last year. Hard drug use is rampant, with a growing divide between the rice and poor that is not helping any.

The city has even changed in the past five years I've been here, especially in the past two years. When I first moved here severe crime was rarely an issue. Now there are places I'd never walk through after dark (not saying that I'd be murdered just for being in the wrong place, more like I fear there's a higher probability of being mugged). Big city crime has appeared to have caught up with this little city.

[GORDBO]

Winnipeg recorded it's 36th homicide this weekend. A male body was removed from an abandoned apt. block on Sat. No details have been released yet.

[chrisallard5454]

Winnipeg is at 37 a female in the North End was murdered today.

5.3/100 000

[Vaillant]

attempt of murder on me yesterday in Montreal but I'm still alive :) just came out the hospital :haha:

[vid]

attempt of murder on me yesterday in Montreal but I'm still alive :) just came out the hospital :haha:

Could use a bit more of an explanation on this...

[chrisallard5454]

A 38th homicide will be announced tomorrow. A man sits in the hospital brain dead after being shot in the back of the head in the city's the West End Yesterday Morning. The mother of the man will take him off of life support later tonight resulting in his death.

Neighbourhood Perspective:

http://www.cbc.ca/manitoba/features/homicides/

North End:
Lord Selkirk Park (Pop. 1 365) = 4
William Whyte (Pop. 6 220) = 2
Dufferin (Pop. 2 090) = 1
St. Johns (Pop. 7 725) = 2
Robertson (Pop. 4 205) = 1
Total (Pop. 21 605) = 10

Downtown:
Portage-Ellice (Pop 1 105) = 3
Central Park (Pop 3 555) = 3
Exchange Dist. (Pop 420) = 3
Total (Pop. 5080) = 9

North Central Winnipeg:
North Point Douglas (Pop. 2 225) = 7
Centennial (Pop. 2 225) = 1
Total (Pop. 4 450) = 8

South Winnipeg:
River-Osbourne (Pop. 4 880) = 2
Fort Richmond (Pop. 11 610) = 1
Munroe East (Pop 8 460) = 1
Niakwa Place (Pop. 2 385) = 1
Riverview (Pop. 4 350) = 1
Total (Pop. 31 685) = 6

West End:
Daniel Mcintyre (Pop. 9 750) = 3
St. Mathews (Pop. 5 575) = 1
Total (Pop. 15 325) = 4

North East Winnipeg:
Beaumont (Pop. 2 360) = 1
Total (Pop. 2 360) = 1

This date:
Winnipeg (Pop. 693 200) = 38
Winnipeg (2010) = 22
Winnipeg (2009) = 25

[Vaillant]

Could use a bit more of an explanation on this...

some guy tried to rub me with a knife.. then i kicked his asshole then i was cut on my right arm then i called 911

[samne]

some guy tried to rub me with a knife.. then i kicked his asshole then i was cut on my right arm then i called 911

thats nuts dude! Glad your ok!

Was this random attack on you?

[GORDBO]

Looks like Winipeg will hit the 40 mark of homicides for the year,
after the suspicious death of a woman in the north end this morning
will most likely bring the current total to 39 with 3 weeks to go.

[Vaillant]

thats nuts dude! Glad your ok!

Was this random attack on you?

yes it was near by McGill university :haha: but I'm fine but not the guy! He is still at hospital hahahaha

[feepa]

45 now in Edmonton. What are the totals in other cities so far?

[ozonemania]

A stat update according to the Vancouver Sun, Vancouver is now at 14.

Woman shot dead in Vancouver while child watched from BMW's back seat (http://www.vancouversun.com/news/Woman+shot+dead+Vancouver+while+child+watched+from+back+seat/5861628/story.html#ixzz1gdHYZHGj)

VANCOUVER -- A 38-year-old woman driving a newer model BMW died in a spray of gunfire Wednesday afternoon as her toddler son looked on from the back seat.

Thursday morning Vancouver police have released the name of the woman. She was Thuy Yen "Jenny" Vu of Vancouver. She is not known to police.

The incident happened near 49th Avenue and Bruce Street in southeast Vancouver shortly after 3 p.m.

....

The homicide is Vancouver’s 14th of the year and second shooting in 24 hours.

© Copyright (c) The Vancouver Sun

[drew]

45 now in Edmonton. What are the totals in other cities so far?

I think Winnipeg is at about 350,000. The murderers are starting to murder other murderers... a murder half-life.

[The_Architect]

45 now in Edmonton. What are the totals in other cities so far?

Toronto at 43 right now.

http://www.thestar.com/news/article/1098855?bn=1

[Calgarian]

Wow, crazy year in Winnipeg and Edmonton! hope things quiet down after this record breaking year...

I think Calgary is still at 8, haven't heard anything lately.

[north 42]

Still just one in Windsor this year.

[Centropolis]

Wow, Winnipegs metro homicide rate per capita might be the same as St. Louis. What's going on there?

[drew]

^ we like killing each other, isn't it obvious?

[SHOFEAR]

cultuuuure

[feepa]

I have good opinions on why Edmonton and Winnipeg have such high rates, but I'd probably get banned for sharing it. One only needs to look at the social status and ethic groups that are getting killed...

...and well if you stay out of the drug trade, you'll have no problems in Edmonton.

[BLACK STAR]

^Concur

You drink the booze you lose.....

You sell the drug.....look out for the other thug.

[Wishblade]

Halifax is at 15 so far I believe.

[armorand93]

I have good opinions on why Edmonton and Winnipeg have such high rates, but I'd probably get banned for sharing it. One only needs to look at the social status and ethic groups that are getting killed...

...and well if you stay out of the drug trade, you'll have no problems in Edmonton.

Same for Winnipeg too, and you mean the poverty in the Aboriginal community which then cause's crime cause they need to get money for their families fast, which means drugs instead of a job because 1) no one hires full Aboriginals for full-time jobs, 2) they assume the gangster culture because the federal government eradicated aboriginal culture, 3) higher education is unaffordable for lower-income Aboriginal families and 4) the federal government simply doesn't care about the First Nations people in this country? They kicked my ancestors out of Sandilands by force, for an example. If they weren't Metis, they would've got much worse...

[davidivivid]

Quebec City is still at two I believe.

[vid]

I think Thunder Bay is also still at two, but honestly I can't remember. It's been a quiet year for us. By quiet, I mean back to normal. Most of our crimes are Mac's robberies. They closed all of the Mac's between 12 and 6am a couple weeks ago, so the robberies are happening just before midnight now. It will take a while before they realize what really has to be done.

Someone suggested having a police officer present when Mac's stores are shutting down, but that would require assigning more than two thirds of the active force at the time to corner stores, so it is simply unfeasible.

[Darkoshvilli]

Montreal still at 33. A mobster got shot a couple days ago and is in 'critical' but 'stable' condition.

[Marty_Mcfly]

St. John's is still at 4, the body found in the park wasn't deemed suspicious. Close call yesterday in a suburban neighborhood, double stabbing...man has been charged with attempted murder. City's gone to hell this year.

[Rusty van Reddick]

Calgary has had 10.

[1ajs]

I have good opinions on why Edmonton and Winnipeg have such high rates, but I'd probably get banned for sharing it. One only needs to look at the social status and ethic groups that are getting killed...

...and well if you stay out of the drug trade, you'll have no problems in Edmonton.
and 7 of them were to blocks from my home...

5 were a house fire set by a drugy who baught bad drugs off one of the houses tenits... the other 2 were house parties for folks in a new program to get people off the street that were not being looked after like the program mandates....

[Acajack]

, 3) higher education is unaffordable for lower-income Aboriginal families and ..

I thought that post-secondary education was free for aboriginals?

[logan5]

I have good opinions on why Edmonton and Winnipeg have such high rates, but I'd probably get banned for sharing it. One only needs to look at the social status and ethic groups that are getting killed...

...and well if you stay out of the drug trade, you'll have no problems in Edmonton.

Most criminals are a product of their environment - I thought this was obvious. Aboriginals are brought up time and time again and the insinuation is that aboriginals have a genetic predisposition towards crime.

You use the same logic that other groups use against Muslims and black people and so on. Or maybe you have scientific evidence you wish to disclose, because your good opinion that you're afraid to share... is useless.

[1ajs]

I thought that post-secondary education was free for aboriginals?
not allways true depends on how much money your band has... and that issue causes healthcare problems for them to........... its a whole lotta mess

[armorand93]

and 7 of them were to blocks from my home...

5 were a house fire set by a drugy who baught bad drugs off one of the houses tenits... the other 2 were house parties for folks in a new program to get people off the street that were not being looked after like the program mandates....

Im guessing you live in Spence?

[MrChills]

Same for Winnipeg too, and you mean the poverty in the Aboriginal community which then cause's crime cause they need to get money for their families fast, which means drugs instead of a job because 1) no one hires full Aboriginals for full-time jobs, 2) they assume the gangster culture because the federal government eradicated aboriginal culture, 3) higher education is unaffordable for lower-income Aboriginal families and 4) the federal government simply doesn't care about the First Nations people in this country? They kicked my ancestors out of Sandilands by force, for an example. If they weren't Metis, they would've got much worse...

Sounds like a lot of trite excuses to me.

If you are qualified for a job, you have the same chance (in some cases a better chance if you are a visible minority) to get a job as any one else. Again, as someone else mentioned getting a higher education is free for a majority of status Indians. The programs are there if people want to use them.

Until a lot of Aboriginals stop pointing the finger at the Federal Government and the "white man" and start looking deeper at themselves and try to correct the social problems from within, you are not going to move anywhere.

[armorand93]

Sounds like a lot of trite excuses to me.

If you are qualified for a job, you have the same chance (in some cases a better chance if you are a visible minority) to get a job as any one else. Again, as someone else mentioned getting a higher education is free for a majority of status Indians. The programs are there if people want to use them.

Until a lot of Aboriginals stop pointing the finger at the Federal Government and the "white man" and start looking deeper at themselves and try to correct the social problems from within, you are not going to move anywhere.

Number 2 is absolutely true though, you can't deny that one.

[Centropolis]

It's weird how you guys call Native Americans Aboriginals...I think of Australia. As an aside, my girlfriend is Cherokee, and yeah, shes been punching me in the arm for years. :haha:

A lot of Americans have native blood, but for better or worse, it's like a footnote to them. I'm sure it's similar in some area of Canada, too.

[Acajack]

It's weird how you guys call Native Americans Aboriginals...I think of Australia. As an aside, my girlfriend is Cherokee, and yeah, shes been punching me in the arm for years. :haha:.

There is no broad consensus in Canada as to how to refer to these peoples. The politically correct term at the moment is "First Nations", but I don't really like it. You also hear a bunch of other different terms in Canada: aboriginals, "Indian" (sic), native, Amerindian (rare in English, but the French variant is very common), "first peoples", etc.

The Canadian federal government's department in charge of these matters was actually called Indian and Northern Affairs until earlier this year. They replaced the word Indian with Aboriginal I think...

A lot of Americans have native blood, but for better or worse, it's like a footnote to them. I'm sure it's similar in some area of Canada, too.

It is true of many Canadians as well (including myself and my wife), though it varies according to demographic groups and regions. For example, it is roughly estimated that between 40% and 70% of the French Canadian population has some aboriginal blood. This might be the largest single demographic in Canada that has a mix of aboriginal and "other" blood.

[The_Architect]

There is no broad consensus in Canada as to how to refer to these peoples. The politically correct term at the moment is "First Nations", but I don't really like it. You also hear a bunch of other different terms in Canada: aboriginals, "Indian" (sic), native, Amerindian (rare in English, but the French variant is very common), "first peoples", etc.

The Canadian federal government's department in charge of these matters was actually called Indian and Northern Affairs until earlier this year. They replaced the word Indian with Aboriginal I think...


I currently work for Ontario's Aboriginal Affairs right now and we use a wide variety as well.. Actually most of the actual First Nations people I have worked with refer to themselves as Indians.

[aastra]

It's weird how you guys call Native Americans Aboriginals...I think of Australia.

Many years ago I was working in a provincial government branch that had the word "aboriginal" in its name, and one day an Australian tourist came in and asked me to take his picture standing in front of the sign. He said his friends back home wouldn't believe it was true if he didn't have a picture to prove it.

[feepa]

Hoping I won't get banned for my general stereotyping, and what some might see as racial views.... but its the natives and the somali in Edmonton that are racking up the murders. A few drug dealers here and there..
The natives for reasons discussed already on this thread, caused by the conditions they are forced to grow up in, etc... It doesn't help that many of these groups live in 3rd world conditions on their reserves, so they attempt to escape by running to the city, and have no skills to make money and have no chance to make it out of this horribly true stereotype

But the somalis should be deported... they come to this country, they disrespect the laws, the law-abiding ones refuse to speak to police, but yet at the same time lambast police for not doing anything?

[vid]

I thought that post-secondary education was free for aboriginals?

The basic fees for the course are covered, but books, housing, and everything else aren't, and it only applies to Status Indians.

If you are qualified for a job, you have the same chance (in some cases a better chance if you are a visible minority) to get a job as any one else.

No you don't. In 2008, United Way of Thunder Bay sent a white kid and a native kid with identical resumes to a variety of businesses, and the white kid was always more accepted than the native kid. Unemployment among aboriginals isn't twice as high because they're lazy, it is twice as high because it takes them twice as long to find a job, because they don't get hired, because of stereotypes against them. Many employers are less trusting of aboriginal people, regardless of how trustworthy that person actually is.

The situation has improved in the past decade, and most of that improvement has come since that report on my city's quality of life in 2008, but we still have a long way to go.

Again, as someone else mentioned getting a higher education is free for a majority of status Indians. The programs are there if people want to use them.

623,780 out of 1,172,790 aboriginal people (53%) have status. That is the maximum number of native people who are eligible for what you think of as "free education". (It is only partially free, because the government made itself legally obligated to provide it.)

There are a tonne of programmes out there to help people, but many are underfunded and understaffed. I made use of three such programmes in the past year and two no longer exist. There are a few new programmes that have been created since then but I have no idea what they're called and I actually pay attention to this kind of thing.

Until a lot of Aboriginals stop pointing the finger at the Federal Government and the "white man" and start looking deeper at themselves and try to correct the social problems from within, you are not going to move anywhere.

Federal laws prevent a lot of the solutions that have come up with to correct their social problems from within. When non-natives want to have public schools, they levy an education tax. Aboriginal governments do not have the right to do that, they are restricted to relying on the government to provide funding for the majority of their programming, especially when it is as expensive as a comprehensive education system.

There are social issues on the reserves that need to be dealt with, but non-aboriginal Canadians have to understand that the federal laws dealing with aboriginal Canadians are getting in the way of many solutions, and they're the ones with the influence.

Native people don't vote in large numbers, so governments can afford to neglect them. We have to stop letting that behaviour go unpunished. Non-natives have to be more vocal about improving laws concerning aboriginal people.

Actually most of the actual First Nations people I have worked with refer to themselves as Indians.

Most Aboriginals that I meet use that term as well, and some actually get offended if you don't call them that. Others consider it as insulting as "nigger" to a black American, and want to be called one of the other terms. It can be difficult to work around that.

[mintzilla]

The basic fees for the course are covered, but books, housing, and everything else aren't, and it only applies to Status Indians.





umm that still sounds pretty sweet. i dont see what the problem there is.

[vid]

The communities they live in don't have adequate schools, so few of them actually qualify for university courses. It's putting the cart before the horse.

[armorand93]

Hoping I won't get banned for my general stereotyping, and what some might see as racial views.... but its the natives and the somali in Edmonton that are racking up the murders. A few drug dealers here and there..
The natives for reasons discussed already on this thread, caused by the conditions they are forced to grow up in, etc... It doesn't help that many of these groups live in 3rd world conditions on their reserves, so they attempt to escape by running to the city, and have no skills to make money and have no chance to make it out of this horribly true stereotype

But the somalis should be deported... they come to this country, they disrespect the laws, the law-abiding ones refuse to speak to police, but yet at the same time lambast police for not doing anything?

We had a HUGE anti-semetic debate on the Manitoba CMHR thread a week ago, and no one got banned, so you might be lucky. :P

Plus anyways, Somali's come here with gun training and tactics too, which is REALLY bad. How do you think they survive Mogadishu, by calling 911 over a few stray bullets and asking for the cops? :jester:

[Darkoshvilli]

34 now after two bodies were found in a car in front of the Montreal general hospital and ruled a murder/suicide.

[logan5]

The natives for reasons discussed already on this thread, caused by the conditions they are forced to grow up in, etc... It doesn't help that many of these groups live in 3rd world conditions on their reserves, so they attempt to escape by running to the city, and have no skills to make money and have no chance to make it out of this horribly true stereotype


Explain this horribly true stereotype. You keep saying natives. If a white person or a Chinese person is exposed to the same environment, what is the difference. Your tone shows a lot of disdain towards Natives and it's offensive. The murder rate in Edmonton And Winnipeg is not caused by natives, get that through your thick skull.

Russia has a murder rate 8 x higher than Canada, Brazil's murder rate is 12 x higher and El Salvador's is 35 x higher. You cannot assign murders to any particular ethnic group. It's a social problem as you seem to somewhat understand, but choose to ignore in order to fulfill your own narrow minded personal agenda.

[Acajack]

Most Aboriginals that I meet use that term as well, and some actually get offended if you don't call them that. Others consider it as insulting as "nigger" to a black American, and want to be called one of the other terms. It can be difficult to work around that.

This has been my experience too.

[Joshy]

Your tone shows a lot of disdain towards Natives and it's offensive. The murder rate in Edmonton And Winnipeg is not caused by natives, get that through your thick skull.

I've seen stats presented showing the homidice rates in Winnipeg are caused mostly by natives. It's not racist; it's the truth. Of course it isn't ONLY natives, but due to their social and economic issues, this doesn't surprise me. These stats were on a paper copy, but IF I can find a electronic copy, I'll post them for you.

I'm betting it's pretty similar for Edmonton, too.

[Rusty van Reddick]

A lot of Americans have native blood, but for better or worse, it's like a footnote to them. I'm sure it's similar in some area of Canada, too.

A lot of Americans CLAIM to have "native blood." Why they do this is a huge mystery to me- kids whose ancestors emigrated to the US generations after the forced removal of some tribes and the genocidal extermination of others near ANYplace those ancestors would have lived claimed- and this was pretty much every kid- to be "part Cherokee." This was a bullshit claim that exposed rank ignorance of the very existence of Native Americans in their part of the country and seems uniquely American- it's like Germans or Poles claiming to be "part Jewish."

This is I suppose part and parcel of the American fascination and fetishization of the Natives whom the European settlers and the US government killed off. I grew up in a state named Indiana in which there are, for all intents and purposes, no "Indians." I stayed in a motel outside Mammoth Cave NP in Kentucky that has cabins shaped like teepees- commemorating the complete slaughter or forced removal of the people who might have actually lived in them.

Being an American emigrant in western Canada, it's been a real learning experience getting past this romantic treatment of native Americans that people in the US midwest luxuriate in.

[logan5]

I've seen stats presented showing the homidice rates in Winnipeg are caused mostly by natives. It's not racist; it's the truth. Of course it isn't ONLY natives, but due to their social and economic issues, this doesn't surprise me. These stats were on a paper copy, but IF I can find a electronic copy, I'll post them for you.

I'm betting it's pretty similar for Edmonton, too.

Please explain why there is a high murder rate in Russia. There are no natives there. South Korea has a murder rate 1.6 x that of Canada - no natives. India's is 1.8 x higher - no natives. Ukraine, 3.8 x higher. If theses countries have no natives how can their murder rates be higher.

I won't call you a racist, but maybe dig a little deeper as to the root cause of violent crime, because I can show you stats that show murder rates are high among whites, blacks, yellow, brown, green, whatever.

Murder rates have nothing to do with ethnic background.

[vid]

It is indirectly a result of their ethnicity. They are more likely to commit crime because they live in poverty, and they're more likely to live in poverty because they're aboriginal.

[-Harlington-]

Man dies after Halifax bar fight
Death has been ruled a homicide by police
CBC News




Posted: Dec 17, 2011 4:54 PM AT
Last Updated: Dec 17, 2011 6:05 PM AT




A man has died in the Queen Elizabeth Health Sciences Centre after a fight at a bar in Halifax early Saturday morning.

James Philip Mattatall, 23, of Dartmouth, was found on Argyle Street in front of a bar unconscious and unresponsive just before 3 a.m. by police.

Police say the fight started inside a bar and continued outside. The victim was knocked to the ground by another man.

Police released pictures of a man who is believed to have been in the area in hopes of identifying him.

Investigators are interested in speaking with the man as he may be able to provide information about the incident.

He is described as a white man in his twenties, tall with a thick build and short dark hair. At the time of the incident he was wearing dark-rimmed glasses, a chain around his neck, blue jeans, a light-coloured ball hat with a logo on the front, a light-coloured shirt and a light-coloured hooded sweatshirt with a letter or logo on the left side and words across the back.

Police are asking this man or anyone with information about the man’s identity or this incident, to contact police.

Saturday's death is Halifax's 17th homicide in 2011.

There was also a suspicious death a day or two ago .

[Centropolis]

A lot of Americans CLAIM to have "native blood." Why they do this is a huge mystery to me- kids whose ancestors emigrated to the US generations after the forced removal of some tribes and the genocidal extermination of others near ANYplace those ancestors would have lived claimed- and this was pretty much every kid- to be "part Cherokee." This was a bullshit claim that exposed rank ignorance of the very existence of Native Americans in their part of the country and seems uniquely American- it's like Germans or Poles claiming to be "part Jewish."

This is I suppose part and parcel of the American fascination and fetishization of the Natives whom the European settlers and the US government killed off. I grew up in a state named Indiana in which there are, for all intents and purposes, no "Indians." I stayed in a motel outside Mammoth Cave NP in Kentucky that has cabins shaped like teepees- commemorating the complete slaughter or forced removal of the people who might have actually lived in them.

Being an American emigrant in western Canada, it's been a real learning experience getting past this romantic treatment of native Americans that people in the US midwest luxuriate in.

The American government committed genocide, not everyone processes that. Now, who do we put on trial? Yeah, I sort of understand the gist of your statement and I've seen that happen, more in the west and south than midwest, and it's extremely annoying (the claims of Cherokee blood) - I'm also familiar with a completely different kind of situation and I'm not going down that slippery road.

Let's focus on the here and now, late 2011. I don't agree with the liberties you take with what you generally think "Americans think" or what 307 million Americans are. I mean like a whole lot. Probably the only offensive/upsetting thing you could say about America, in my opinion, is that it is monolithic.

But, I digress. I came onto this board to learn about my good neighbor to the north. I'm also glad that you have been exposed to different experiences and points of view in Canada. I wish many more Americans would at least visit Canadian cities more often.

[Marty_Mcfly]

Saturday's death is Halifax's 17th homicide in 2011.



That's pretty high, even for Halifax standards.

[armorand93]

I wish many more Americans would at least visit Canadian cities more often.

I'd prefer if Americans MOVED here, before Rick Perry or Newt Gengrich cause a thermonuclear war as visually seen on the Great Canadian Skyline Thread

edit: http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20070718153208/uncyclopedia/images/7/78/Beautifultoronto.jpg

[Wharn]

God dammit, London. 7th so far this year. All we know is someone was found dead at 466 Adelaide St. North, and some bloke was arrested. Police are being very tight-lipped.

http://www.lfpress.com/news/london/2011/12/17/19137601.html

[Darkoshvilli]

7 is not that bad compared to Halifax's 17.

[vid]

It's worse than Thunder Bay (on a per 100,000 rate), and we were the murder capital last year. We've actually done surprisingly well compared to the last few years. Not only is the number of actual homicides down to two, but the number of violent assaults that result in hospitalization is down, though the few that we had were pretty bad compared to previous years.

Our Christmas housefire season has started, though. Pretty much every night, something is catching fire up here. One guy's house got hit twice in a week, first because of a faulty lamp, and then he apparently got hit with arson (total coincidence). Not a very happy Christmas for him.

[chrisallard5454]

It looks like Halifax will be the homicide capital. Even higher than Winnipeg and Edmonton. That leaves a rate of 5.9/100 000. Winnipeg and Edmonton both sit at 5.4. 17 in a city sounds like it belongs out west.

[Andrewjm3D]

Toronto still sits at 44 with only two weeks left in the year. The CBC has an up to date interactive map you can track the locations and descriptions of the homicides.

http://www.cbc.ca/toronto/features/homicide2011/

Last year we had 60, and in 2009 we had 61. I think as more people are moving into the core and areas gentrify and become more 24/7, neighborhoods in the city become safer.

[Andrewjm3D]

Wow, Edmonton is tied with Toronto at 44 murders - http://www.cbc.ca/edmonton/features/homicide/

[Darkoshvilli]

How are Regina and Saskatoon doing?

[Only The Lonely..]

Most criminals are a product of their environment - I thought this was obvious. Aboriginals are brought up time and time again and the insinuation is that aboriginals have a genetic predisposition towards crime.

You use the same logic that other groups use against Muslims and black people and so on. Or maybe you have scientific evidence you wish to disclose, because your good opinion that you're afraid to share... is useless.

I think issues of race and class are too often confused in this thread.

Generally speaking there's a lot of goodwill towards people of aboriginal ancestry, but there's also a lot of hatred towards bums and people who make excuses.

[Only The Lonely..]

It is indirectly a result of their ethnicity. They are more likely to commit crime because they live in poverty, and they're more likely to live in poverty because they're aboriginal.

How many millions have we sent Attawapiskat?

Maybe the fingers should be pointed at the chiefs..

[vid]

How many millions have we sent Attawapiskat?

Maybe the fingers should be pointed at the chiefs..

I would rather point the finger at the government that created and failed to update the law that determines how chiefs can use the money they're given. For all of his promises of accountability, Harper has failed to bring any to the Ministry of Indian and Northern Affairs.

As I said before, the single largest government office in Thunder Bay belongs to INAC. Whatever they're doing isn't show many decent results, and yet Harper has allowed this government waste, and a lack of accountability at the level of First Nations governments, to exist for almost 6 years. When is he going to do what he promised?

[Blitz]

7 is too high for London, need to get that down. I think the long term average is 5 or less.

[miketoronto]

Toronto still sits at 44 with only two weeks left in the year. The CBC has an up to date interactive map you can track the locations and descriptions of the homicides.

http://www.cbc.ca/toronto/features/homicide2011/

Last year we had 60, and in 2009 we had 61. I think as more people are moving into the core and areas gentrify and become more 24/7, neighborhoods in the city become safer.


Toronto's murders were never really concentrated in the core areas, and in fact the murders are pretty much spread across the city, with a slightly higher number in the suburban districts.

[ssiguy]

I'm surprised by London as well. Still very low by Western Canadian standards.
Still, considering London has 370,000 that still is a rate of only about 1.8/100,000.

[Andrewjm3D]

Toronto's murders were never really concentrated in the core areas, and in fact the murders are pretty much spread across the city, with a slightly higher number in the suburban districts.

Those numbers are for the 416( Or Toronto), Mississauga murders or the like are not part of the equation. I'm not sure what your point is mike.

[Dougler306]

suprisingly its been a quite year in regina for homcides, i dont no exact numbers, but last i heared we were at 11. Not sure about saskatoon, but were def not Number 1 like a few years ago

[JHikka]

Is there any way of getting numbers for past years for homicides in Canada? Like past yearly leaders? Maybe in a nice shiny graph or table? :haha:

[davidivivid]

Homicide in Canada, 2009 Statcan
http://www.statcan.gc.ca/pub/85-002-x/2010003/article/11352-eng.htm

Chart 3
Highest homicide rates in Manitoba and Saskatchewan

http://www.statcan.gc.ca/pub/85-002-x/2010003/article/11352/c-g/c-g3-eng.gif

Chart 4
Among the largest census metropolitan areas homicide rates highest in west

http://www.statcan.gc.ca/pub/85-002-x/2010003/article/11352/c-g/c-g4-eng.gif

Chart 6
Use of firearms declines in 2009

http://www.statcan.gc.ca/pub/85-002-x/2010003/article/11352/c-g/c-g6-eng.gif

Chart 8
Second lowest rate of females killed in over 30 years

http://www.statcan.gc.ca/pub/85-002-x/2010003/article/11352/c-g/c-g8-eng.gif

[chrisallard5454]

Homicide in Canada, 2009 Statcan
http://www.statcan.gc.ca/pub/85-002-x/2010003/article/11352-eng.htm

Chart 3
Highest homicide rates in Manitoba and Saskatchewan

http://www.statcan.gc.ca/pub/85-002-x/2010003/article/11352/c-g/c-g3-eng.gif

Chart 4
Among the largest census metropolitan areas homicide rates highest in west

http://www.statcan.gc.ca/pub/85-002-x/2010003/article/11352/c-g/c-g4-eng.gif

Chart 6
Use of firearms declines in 2009

http://www.statcan.gc.ca/pub/85-002-x/2010003/article/11352/c-g/c-g6-eng.gif

Chart 8
Second lowest rate of females killed in over 30 years

http://www.statcan.gc.ca/pub/85-002-x/2010003/article/11352/c-g/c-g8-eng.gif

They are going to have to change that homicide graph for metropolitans this year. Winnipeg, Edomonton, and Halifax are over 5/100 000.