[feepa]

Discuss the options at will...

[MalcolmTucker]

Close it, the only problem with that is the city gets the revenue from closing it so the funds would not be plowed into YEG development.

Even a plan to close it in lets say ten years would be good. Allow time for planning and such.

I am not sure how much environmental contamination would need to be cleaned up, and how much land the market could absorb. Depends really if you decide to do just a dense human scale neighborhood (like Garrisson Woods in Calgary or possibly The Bridges) or a towering TOD like Century Park.

You could even build a couple Grand Boulevards and other road features as to accommodate the Grand Prix if one really wanted.

[Xelebes]

lol bias

:)

[Edmonchuck]

Ka Blewie

[Kevin_foster]

Send these results into CHED please. thanks

[itom 987]

CHED poll results so far:

81% Yes - take the pressure off the highways.
4% No-maintain the status quo.
16% Let's scrap it and develop the area.

http://www.630ched.com/station/corus_qod_poll.cfm

Go there and vote!

[Edmonchuck]

I've had over 100 people post on CHED, and the 16% doesn't budge. Either 10,000 people voted yes or...

[CMD UW]

The whole debate is BS. The airport means nothing to me and the majority of my colleagues agree.

[freeweed]

As a non-Edmontonian my opinion means nothing, but YXD was a very handy transfer point for small domestic carriers (specifically, Peace Air a few years ago). Once they got booted out and forced to go through YEG, the stupid security requirements made a very pleasant, easy flight into a logistical nightmare.

I guess my complaint has more to do with YEG's stupid security policies (I can elaborate if anyone cares) than anything else, but I miss the muni :( Thankfully I don't fly up to the Peace much anymore.

[Edmonchuck]

"stupid" security policies? There is something there different than the rest of canada?

[freeweed]

"stupid" security policies? There is something there different than the rest of canada?

I figured I'd have to elaborate. Don't take this as attack necessarily on YEG as I obviously don't know everything, but this was what happened when a flight was changed from YXD to YEG:

When you used to take a Peace Air flight from Calgary to Peace River, you'd get on at the Esso Avitat at YYC. No security screening to speak of, just show up 15 mins before your flight, board, fly. Land at YXD while they added/deplaned some passengers, maybe time for a smoke or a coffee, get back on plane. Land at Peace River. The way back was the same, in reverse.

When it got routed through YEG, NOTHING CHANGED AT YYC OR PEACE RIVER. But when you landed at YEG, you had to deplane. Leaving your luggage on the plane, which remember had never been screened, you were required to run the entire length of YEG (a good 5-10 mins depending on how fast you walked), exit the secured area, go back through security (and often as not, be forced to stand in line), and then run the gauntlet AGAIN back to the SAME BLOODY PLANE YOU JUST STEPPED OFF OF.

Did I mention that this adds 30-45 mins *minimum* to a 3 hour flight? And does absolutely nothing for security whatsoever, no matter how paranoid you can possibly be about this stuff?

What's awesome is that with YXD you were pretty restricted in where you could go. With the change to YEG, you could easily have a bomb/gun with you when you get on the plane, AND THEN WALK RIGHT THROUGH THE SECURED AREA OF YEG (before having to leave it and go through the security checkpoint again, keep in mind).

If there's any sense in any of that, it's lost on me. It made airline travel much LESS secure, if anything.

[itom 987]

I agree that security at YEG is over the top and I have complained about it to the Edmonton Airport Authority.

[Edmonchuck]

CASTA...did anyone talk to CASTA?

[ZiZiPop]

CHED poll results so far:

81% Yes - take the pressure off the highways.
4% No-maintain the status quo.
16% Let's scrap it and develop the area.

http://www.630ched.com/station/corus_qod_poll.cfm

Go there and vote!

The poll is flawed in the wording. IMO people voting "yes" arn't nessesarily voting to reopen the muni, they are voting to take pressure off the highways. Two different issues that are trying to be tied together.

[Policy Wonk]

the extremely high costs of decommissioning an airport have to be part of any discussion. Especially a facility that was active for so long in much less environmentally sensitive times.

You name it, it has been dumped or burried there.

[jawagord]

Discuss the options at will...

As I am one of the likely few on this board to actual have flown into the Muni from Calgary, I can say it was a great business connection to have and it was a loss to both Calgary and Edmonton business to have it taken away. One of the "reasons" given at the time for restricting flights into the Muni was to enhance Edmonton's appeal to corporate business by gaining more direct flights to Edmonton via the International airport. And while the International has gained more direct flights, corporate Edmonton has mostly lost and not gained national or international businesses in the 10 years that the Muni has been restricted. I will vote for enhancing service to the Muni as the most important city business connection for Edmonton is with Calgary and vice versa.

[IKAN104]

Wow. That's some small town thinking.

[fortroad]

I say drop it like it's hot. It would make a nice "Edmonton Common" like The Halifax common.
http://www.ens-newswire.com/ens/apr2004/20040429_halifax.jpg

[basilbrush]

I voted to keep it as is ...for the time being. I'm all for closing it eventually, but right now there seem to be enough areas that Edmonton is trying to redevelope(Jasper East, Fort Road, Greisbach, Century Park...). I'm not convinced there is enough appetite in the development community at this time to tackle something as big as this airport. I'd hate to have a big empty field in the middle of the north side sitting waiting to be developed. NAIT still has several development sites available to them on the main campus, plus they could still intensify development on some of their existing buildings.

Perhaps someone should do a quick breakdown on what the limitations are on passenger service under the current agreement. I thought flights to Calgary were still allowed for 19 seaters, no? but not other southern cities, right? and nothing out of province, right?

[lubicon]

Keep it as is. It still serves a purpose for corporate traffic, private traffic, and especially medivac flights from the north. The last issue in particular makes it very important. But DO NOT ever open it up to scheduled flights again. I grew up in Peace River, one of the towns that always seems to be complaining about the closing of YXD to scheduled flights and I honestly don't see the fuss. It's a 5 hour drive to Edmonton so really it makes little difference whether you fly into YXD or YEG. YEG only adds another 15-20 minutes to your overall trip so that is no big deal, and that is only if you are doing business in the core. Plus you don't have connections to other cities by using YXD.

[cdnklc]

As I am one of the likely few on this board to actual have flown into the Muni from Calgary, I can say it was a great business connection to have and it was a loss to both Calgary and Edmonton business to have it taken away. One of the "reasons" given at the time for restricting flights into the Muni was to enhance Edmonton's appeal to corporate business by gaining more direct flights to Edmonton via the International airport. And while the International has gained more direct flights, corporate Edmonton has mostly lost and not gained national or international businesses in the 10 years that the Muni has been restricted. I will vote for enhancing service to the Muni as the most important city business connection for Edmonton is with Calgary and vice versa.
and i can remember when we used to purchase pwa tickets "by the book" and they would sit in our reception area like taxi vouchers. we would grab four on the way by and off we went. those were also the days when you could arrive at the airport four minutes before takeoff and still make your connection as there was more security in your building lobby than there was at an airport. for all this talk of "how nice and easy it used to be and wouldn't it be wonderful if it was like that again", how easily everyone forgets that those "airbus flights" also ended up at calgary's international which adds two things to that equation even if the new 737's could use muni. firstly, it takes a lot longer now to get from calgary's airport to downtown calgary. and secondly, it takes that much longer again to get from downtown calgary on to a flight back to edmonton due firstly to traffic getting to the airport and secondly due to security measures in and around the airport before you get close to boarding. it might have been pretty convenient at the time but that convenience is impossible to replicate today. and thirdly, if you really want to assess "convenience", to and from downtown edmonton to downtown calgary may well not be the appropriate measure of time anyway for most travellers - international is becoming closer and closer to many homes in the region for those leaving from home or returning to home rather than from downtown from a time perspective and moreso with every piece of henday that gets completed. in addition to that, there are more than 500 businesses in nisku business park alone employing 14,000 plus skilled and professional workers and more than 65% of those businesses work internationally as well as having ties to calgary and to "the north". and for those in "corporate calgary" that want to do more business with "corporate edmonton" (or with the government for that matter), perhaps some of the answer may be to either move back or open offices here. as to "most important businees connection for edmonton", in my books that would certainly have to be worldwide connections via the internet, not airbus seats to calgary.

[Coldrsx]

I have no problem keeping one runway open and having it as a private jet/heli/med/mech place...works well with NAIT potentially.

Also this might allow CHAMP to remain there.

However...in the longer term...10-20yrs from now i would like to see NAIT expanding on this site and a new low-rise community.

[Jasper and one o nin]

I think CHAMP should hit the streets!
One runway - why not?

[Mikemike]

I'm with basil on this. I think we should start planning now for closure, allow LRT planning, allow NAIT to plan expansion on site, and possibly close one runway in the next couple years to reduce downtown height impacts.

If we want the right development on that massive site, we should wait, and have a good plan for when the time comes. The last thing that we need is a suburban neighbourhood there. Just look at the infill behind the canadian tire on kingsway, and the townhomes between 105 & 106st by the armoury to see what crappy infill you get when the market is low. Likewise, if we flood the market with 600 acres(or whatever) we'll be spreading the demand too thin.

I think that once Fort Road old town, the north edge, jasper east(quarters) and greisbach are substantially developed the time will have come to shut 'er down and build 'er up.

[Kevin_foster]

One runway would be fine.

Although, I would be more in favor of Calgary/Edmonton HSR instead of keeping it open. And we all know HSR is not really the best idea :P

[Edmonchuck]

As I am one of the likely few on this board to actual have flown into the Muni from Calgary, I can say it was a great business connection to have and it was a loss to both Calgary and Edmonton business to have it taken away. One of the "reasons" given at the time for restricting flights into the Muni was to enhance Edmonton's appeal to corporate business by gaining more direct flights to Edmonton via the International airport. And while the International has gained more direct flights, corporate Edmonton has mostly lost and not gained national or international businesses in the 10 years that the Muni has been restricted. I will vote for enhancing service to the Muni as the most important city business connection for Edmonton is with Calgary and vice versa.


As I am one of the few too, I say balderdash. Triple balderdash. You were spoon fed that garbage from Rhys and Lougheed. Why? PWA had the muni monopoly, and Rhys wanted to keep it. Who owned PWA? The Province. Hmmm, do you think for one solitary second Rhys or Peter gave one fiddlers flying flip about Edmonton's international routes, ESPECIALLY post CP purchase????? Don't think for one second that a Calgary premier with a Calgary based airline wanted to disturb that little gem. Edmonton was on global trade routes even then, we were just led to believe otherwise. Add the whaaa whaaa of the regional "why give Leduc all the revenue" and you get the recipe for Edmonton getting royally f*(ked over by its own stupidity augmented by a Calgary bias.

Funny thing though, PWA's BIG money came from Northern cargo. Some Herc traffic could use YXD, but the 737C and the loaded 130's needed just a liiiiittle more room - *cough ran out of YEG cough* - How do I know? I loaded the damn things. ...remember, PWA's Herc's were bigger than our military's.

1. in 1970, sure, Calgary business was "wanted". In 2008, no. I travel frequently, and in 10 years, I've flown via or to YYC once. Same for Calgary. Other than middle manager Marsha flying up to see some engineering folks at a plant, Calgary's business is global too. Let's not forget that. EVER. In 2008, our diversification and our future depends on GLOBAL trade. Sorry, I don't want to be Olympia, or Albany, or Eugene - Capital cities that have NOTHING else going for it. Alberta should be cheering on both airports.

2. Stantec. Ever heard of them? Ever hear of their growth strategy? Impossible if we only had YXD. They would simply move to where they can access their biggest growth market with the fewest connections. They are just ONE of the MAJOR businesses in town that would not be here if it weren't for YEG. Joe Bob's Well Service Inc, well, if they chose their market to be only Calgary, then that's their own myopic fault.

3. When was the Muni restricted? Could it be in the midst of one of the largest continued economic slumps this city has ever known? One that we are just recovering from? Also in a deregulated market the airlines were just figuring out? Add the fact that the muni debate was not immediately solved adding uncertainty, and you wonder why a 744 didn't announce service to Tokyo the next morning?

So, triple balderdash! In a mere few days, this discussion will be even more moot. What's coming could NEVER be done at YXD, and if we didn't restrict YXD at the time, I can 10000000% guarantee you that we wouldn't HAVE an international airport.

[freeweed]

What's coming could NEVER be done at YXD, and if we didn't restrict YXD at the time, I can 10000000% guarantee you that we wouldn't HAVE an international airport.

Good point. I'd sure as heck never argue that YXD should be the ONLY airport in the Edmonton area. That would relegate the city to, like you say, one of those capital regions that really rather sucks. And I totally understand why on SSP most folks would want the muni gone - height restrictions and all that.

It's funny though - I always thought, being too young to remember the days before YEG, that Edmonton had more of a "big city" feel BECAUSE of the muni. How many places in Canada have multiple airports? It always impressed me that there was this downtown airport just waiting there for all the important bigwigs on their fancy Cesnas.

Perception and reality being very different things, of course.

[Edmonchuck]

The "big city" feel came from approaching over lights and buildings. Admittedly, flying into a farmer's field just felt bush league.

Even cooler was seeing the skyscrapers (such as they were for most of YXD's existence) from the cockpit window. The approach to YXD is beautiful, especially on 30 or 34.

Add the terminal size of YEG at the time (pathetic and used the PTV excuses), and you can get the "where the hell am I" feeling.

If the YXD folks would just never ever evver bring up a return to 1970 rally every 6 months, this problem wouldn't be as big. You could then work with NavCan and TC to get the APO modified. Then, your big buildings could appear. There are ways, but each and every time that this comes up, it gets more and more impossible.

[Bigtime]

Even cooler was seeing the skyscrapers (such as they were for most of YXD's existence) from the cockpit window. The approach to YXD is beautiful, especially on 30 or 34.

Seconding this, I loved flying into YXD for fun for reasons like that. I did the odd hop up there for a day with a buddy to see some friends and then fly back in the evening.