Housing market [Archive] - Page 3 - SkyscraperPage Forum

BrianE

Nov 13, 2008, 2:15 PM

Property Virgins is on HGTV right now, they're looking at houses in the lower city, one was in Bartonville, another in Stipley.

They're making their offer at a cafe off James North.

Some really nice shots of the Wellington & King gates and the mountain accesses, who knew they could be so photogenic.

This episode was on TV again? I saw it back in the Summer, I didn't know that they made a trip out to Hamilton until I saw that episode.

I was even more surprised when the first house they featured was literaly right around the corner from my house on Afton Ave. I could almost see the back of my house when they toured the backyard, they didn't pan far enough to the right.

I was doubly surprised when they were doing a segwey between the first and second house and Sandra was discussing the pros and cons of the first house she was actualy standing on my street, you could see my frontyard in the background.

Imagine, someone famous on my street. I'm feeling faint just thinking about it.;) :cool:

MsMe

Nov 13, 2008, 3:29 PM

It must have taken a few months to do the filming of the show. If you noticed at the begining it showed them in winter clothes then when they were on the patio at the cafe it showed them in lighter weight clothing.

SteelTown

Nov 14, 2008, 12:22 PM

Expect housing market to cool in '09

November 14, 2008
Lisa Grace Marr
The Hamilton Spectator

The boom the housing industry has enjoyed for the past two years is about to moderate, slipping below 200,000 housing starts in 2009, for the first time in years.

Still, high employment, rising incomes and low mortgage rates have provided a steady foundation for the industry nationally, said Bob Dugan, chief economist for Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation (CMHC).

CMHC staff provided an industry outlook at the Hamilton Convention Centre yesterday.

Sarah Fong, CMHC analyst for the Hamilton region, said this market is more resilient than some because of its ability to evolve from a goods-based economy to a service-based one, maintaining jobs.

Fong said Hamilton and Burlington still benefit from being near Toronto and other hubs in southwestern Ontario for those wanting to "get jobs where the money is .... and live where it's cheap."

Fong analyzed the impact of higher gas prices on commuting and said gas would need to reach about $2 a litre before cost savings would not be realized by living in Hamilton.

However, she said Hamilton and the rest of the province will experience slowing job growth, which will affect first-time home buyers' confidence.

That plus only a slight increase in housing prices paints a picture of an industry in slow mode.

Ashot Karapetyan, market analyst for CMHC, offered a glimpse of the market beyond 2009 and said retiring baby boomers who are downsizing will boost the demand for apartment-style housing.

Migrants will also play a major role as they are expected to provide three-quarters of projected population growth.

MsMe

Nov 27, 2008, 5:58 PM

Big Canadian banks cut mortgage rates

November 27, 2008
The Canadian Press
TORONTO (Nov 27, 2008)
Canada's big banks are cutting mortgage rates on a variety of terms, reflecting a drop in borrowing costs in the bond market, where banks finance their mortgage lending.

The Royal Bank of Canada said yesterday it is cutting rates effective immediately and introducing some new mortgage products. A three-year closed mortgage at Canada's biggest bank falls to 6.45 per cent, down a quarter point. A five-year term falls by the same amount to 6.95 per cent.

Meanwhile, the Bank of Montreal is cutting its mortgage rates by various amounts, effective today. A three-year loan falls six tenths of a point to 6.45 per cent, while a five-year mortgage drops a quarter point to 6.95 per cent.

Scotiabank, TD Bank Canada Trust and Montreal-based Laurentian Bank also cut their mortgage rates, effective today.

Interest rates in the bond market have been falling as the North American economy slows and the Wall Street credit crunch eases.

http://www.thespec.com/News/Business/article/473198

SteelTown

Dec 4, 2008, 12:17 PM

House sales down; prices holding
Local real estate market looked good in 2008, but has slowed

December 04, 2008
Meredith Macleod
The Hamilton Spectator
http://www.thespec.com/News/Business/article/476674

Sure, real estate sales are down, house prices are expected to dip and properties are taking longer to sell.

Local realtors acknowledge all that. But they are also quick to point out that 2007 was a record year.

They say 2008 was shaping up to be pretty good too, until an overheated housing market boiled over in the U.S., sending stock markets tumbling and slamming credit markets shut.

Local sales fell in October by more than 27 per cent over the same month in 2007.

Prices, so far, appear to be holding steady. Average home prices in Hamilton-Burlington are expected to climb by 4 per cent this year and then fall by the same amount next year, according to a national report released by ReMax yesterday.

The Realtors Association of Hamilton-Burlington will release numbers today that show local home prices are up 5 per cent, and November prices rose 6 per cent, over last year.

"We've had a great year in 2008, but it's definitely slowed down. People are nervous now," said Judi Caplan, realtor with Coldwell Banker Pinnacle Real Estate.

But people are still buying. The difference this year is that buyers are taking their time. In many cases last year, there wasn't that luxury. Homes were snapped up quickly and bidding wars became relatively common.

"A balanced market is better," said Caplan. "There isn't the pressure to jump on things and pay higher prices."

Caplan says banks are also taking their time. Mortgage approval used to come in a day; now it takes a week or more.

According to ReMax, national home sales are projected to be about 15 per cent lower in 2008 than they were last year.

In Hamilton-Burlington, sales will fall 12 per cent, says the national realtor. Next year, sales could fall by another 6 per cent, but ReMax says if consumer confidence bounces back, a recovery could come as early as spring.

Hamilton is especially hurt by blows to the manufacturing sector, says Ralph Schmidt, CEO and co-owner of ReMax Escarpment.

But he says this current market is nothing compared to 1981 when unemployment was high and interest rates were 21 per cent for first-time mortgages. "History shows this stuff all works out. No one likes the cuts and bruises but we're in a much better position today."

There is still strong demand for homes under $250,000 but those $500,000 and up aren't moving, says Schmidt.

Realtor Zena Dalton is happy to see the real estate market swing back in favour of buyers and isn't worried about falling sales.

"It can't always be high. Last year, you could put a sign on the lawn, get three offers and sell in a few days. This (market) will separate the agents who really know how to work a listing. There's been a lot of gravy years; it's time to work a little harder."

That hard work includes convincing sellers they can't expect to get the high price their neighbour sold for last year.

"Sellers haven't really caught up to the new reality," said Dalton, a realtor with Judy Marsales Real Estate who has been selling in Westdale and Hamilton's southwest for about 20 years.

"It's like pulling teeth getting some of them to drop (their price.)"

But she says properly priced homes are selling well. She recently sold a property for $490,000, just $4,000 under asking price, after only four days on the market.

John Sebastiano of ReMax Escarpment Realty says 2008 numbers are similar to those of 2003, before the housing boom began.

"That was a really good market and it is now, too."

He says listings might get half the showings they did last year and take twice as long to sell. If homeowners do drop their price, it's by $10,000 rather than $5,000.

"The slowdown is there but you can't set a record every year."

Sebastiano recently sold a four-bedroom house on the west Mountain for just over $299,000.

The sellers dropped their price three times by a total of $30,000. Similar houses sold last year for $320,000, says Sebastiano.

A tale of two years

Ancaster

2008

WHAT: 4-bedroom, 2 1/2- bath,

two-storey detached

HOW LONG: Has been listed on mls.ca for 104 days.

HOW MUCH: $418,900

2007

WHAT: 4-bedroom, 2 1/2-bath, two-storey detached

HOW LONG: Sold in 50 days.

HOW MUCH: $430,000

Hamilton Centre

2008

WHAT: 3-bedroom, 1 1/2-bath, two-storey detached

HOW LONG: Has been listed on mls.ca for 98 days.

HOW MUCH: $156,900

2007

WHAT: 3-bedroom, 1 1/2-bath,

two-storey detached

HOW LONG: Sold in 10 days.

HOW MUCH: $157,000

Stoney Creek

2008

WHAT: 3-bedroom, 2 1/2-bath,

2 storey detached

HOW LONG: Has been listed on mls.ca for 34 days.

HOW MUCH: $399,900

2007

WHAT: 3-bedroom, 2 1/2-bath,

2 storey detached

HOW LONG: Sold in 31 days.

HOW MUCH: $369,000

Source: Realtors Association of Hamilton-Burlington

FairHamilton

Dec 4, 2008, 12:28 PM

I saw on the 11pm CTV News last night they predict a 4% decline in Hamilton home prices in 2009.

I get the automated New Listing emails from the Real Estate agent we used to buy this house, and I mentioned to my wife last night the number I've been receiving lately has declined.

To me that decline is good news because it means less are going on the market, which should help keep supply and demand close together. I'm still comfortable the drop in pricing in the lower city will be minimal compared to newer suburbs.

I'm now waiting for my variable rate mortgage to drop again with a Prime cut in January. Since March 2008 our weekly mortgage payment has dropped by about 10%.

MsMe

Dec 12, 2008, 6:29 AM

Homes at risk: Bank of Canada
Worsening economy would exact heavy price

December 11, 2008

The Canadian Press
OTTAWA — The Bank of Canada is warning of severe economic turmoil, including the risk of many Canadians losing their homes, if the financial-market crisis worsens.

The central bank’s December financial systems review says the “most likely outcome” is for markets and credit conditions in Canada to gradually improve as extraordinary measures by central banks and governments take hold.

But that outcome is by no means certain, it warns, saying uncertainties remain about how long it will take for credit markets to return to normal.

And if global financial conditions deteriorate, the bank warns the repercussions for Canada could be serious, including a deep and prolonged recession, slow income growth and severe trouble for Canadians already carrying heavy debt loads.

“With household balance sheets under pressure from weak equity markets, softening house prices, slowing income growth, and record-high debt-to-income ratios, a severe economic downturn could result in a substantial increase in default rates on household debt,” the review states.

Canadian banks are among the best-capitalized in the world but would not emerge unscathed, the central bank’s analysis concludes.

Much as has happened in the United States, the document says household debt woes could be a channel of contagion spreading through the banking system and cause even greater tightening in the availability of credit.

Banks are somewhat insulated by mortgage insurance, but the Bank of Canada says a severe economic downturn would nonetheless put pressure on their capital ratios.

http://www.thespec.com/News/BreakingNews/article/480489

BrianE

Dec 12, 2008, 2:12 PM

So far this fall and winter all I've seen from economist predictions is:

"We believe that X will happen and there's a slight possibility that Y will happen. Don't worry [Insert generic financial and economic platitudes here] indicate tough times blah blah blah we still have [Insert complex fiscal policy and giant financial corporation A] to fall back on."

Two months later Y happens, times are tougher than expected and giant financial corporation A has failed or requires a bailout.

I expect no different from this article.

FairHamilton

Dec 12, 2008, 3:15 PM

I'm not worried.

The government said during the election things weren't bad, and to prove their point they've taken 2 months off. Things must be great.......

adam

Dec 12, 2008, 4:33 PM

FairHamilton

Dec 12, 2008, 5:02 PM

Remember when we all got our new property assessments and they were significantly higher a short while back? Little known piece of info: we have until April 30th 2009 (tax time) to dispute the new value.

Already submitted mine for reconsideration and I'm waiting a response. My wife joked the below must be a typical day in an MPAC office these days.

Declined, Declined, Declined, Good Point but Declined, Declined, Declined, Interesting argument but declined......., Declined, Declined, That will cause us more work so declined........

MsMe

Dec 12, 2008, 5:14 PM

With people sitting on mortgages 300,000 and up it will probably effect more. Especially if they had just lost their jobs and having that amount owing on the mortgages.

FairHamilton

Dec 12, 2008, 6:01 PM

With people sitting on mortgages 300,000 and up it will probably effect more. Especially if they had just lost their jobs and having that amount owing on the mortgages.

Not too many (none) in my neighbourhood with $300K+ mortgages. I'm guessing not too many in all the lower city with those types of mortgages.

adam

Dec 12, 2008, 6:12 PM

Already submitted mine for reconsideration and I'm waiting a response. My wife joked the below must be a typical day in an MPAC office these days.

Declined, Declined, Declined, Good Point but Declined, Declined, Declined, Interesting argument but declined......., Declined, Declined, That will cause us more work so declined........

Keep us posted as to what happens.. good luck!

MsMe

Dec 12, 2008, 6:33 PM

Not too many (none) in my neighbourhood with $300K+ mortgages. I'm guessing not too many in all the lower city with those types of mortgages.

In the Wentworth county, I would imagine, Ancaster/Dundas, Glanbrook areas would be in that catagory of the higher mortgates.

Is Waterdown part of Hamilton now? If so could probably include that area as well.

FairHamilton

Dec 12, 2008, 7:08 PM

In the Wentworth county, I would imagine, Ancaster/Dundas, Glanbrook areas would be in that catagory of the higher mortgates.

Is Waterdown part of Hamilton now? If so could probably include that area as well.

Yup, Waterdown is part of Hamilton now.

MsMe

Dec 12, 2008, 8:33 PM

Canadians vulnerable if economy worsens

December 12, 2008
Julian Beltrame
The Canadian Press
OTTAWA (Dec 12, 2008)

A significant number of Canadians are at risk of defaulting on mortgages and other loans if the global financial crisis deteriorates and triggers a deeper recession, the Bank of Canada warns.

In a sobering assessment of the financial crisis, the central bank concludes that significant risks remain for both the global economy and Canada if credit conditions don't begin to improve.

"With household balance sheets under pressure from weak equity markets, softening house prices, slowing income growth and record-high debt-to-income ratios, a severe economic downturn could result in a substantial increase in default rates on household debt," the bank said in its December financial systems review released yesterday.

The Bank of Canada says the number of "vulnerable households" -- the 3 per cent with a debt-to-income ratio above 40 per cent -- could double by the end of next year under this pessimistic scenario.

That would mean tens of thousands of households could face crushing debt as Canadians lose jobs and family incomes drop to the point where they can't pay their bills.

The central bank notes this is a worst-case scenario. The "most likely outcome" is for global markets and credit conditions in Canada to gradually improve, it states.

This is partly because central banks and governments around the world have come up with extraordinary measures such as cash injections, asset swaps and credit guarantees to backstop financial institutions to pump additional billions of dollars of credit into the economy.

But the Canadian central bank's top officials also warn that there is "a significant risk of mutually reinforcing weakness in the financial sector and in the real economy."

That's the kind of negative feedback that felled the U.S. economy, noted Douglas Porter, deputy chief economist with BMO Capital Markets. "Given the fact we're looking at the recession in the teeth, some of the worst-case scenarios have to be studied a little more closely," he said."It looks like we're going to get as close to the bank's worst-case scenario than anyone would have imagined possible as recently as three months ago."

After resisting the call for months, the Bank of Canada declared the economy in recession Wednesday when it slashed its trendsetting interest rate to the lowest level in 50 years at 1.5 per cent.

Most economists are forecasting growth at or below zero for 2009 with job losses of more than 100,000 and an unemployment rate above 7 per cent.

Pressure is mounting on Ottawa to shock the economy into recovery with a big stimulus spending plan in its Jan. 27 budget.

Yesterday, Porter urged Ottawa to spend as much as $16 billion next year to arrest the economy's slide into recession. He said such a package should include spending on infrastructure as well as a one-time bonus for seniors on public pensions, temporary cuts to payroll taxes and the GST, and vouchers that would give Canadians government cheques on the condition they spend rather than save.

As well, Porter says Ottawa should consider a one-time financial transfer to the provinces, which could put the money more directly to use.

http://www.thespec.com/News/Business/article/480930

By the sounds of this article it doesn't really matter how much the mortgage is.

bornagainbiking

Dec 22, 2008, 5:17 AM

Sometimes it takes major changes in the norm as we see it to shake us back into reality.
So far in the last year we have seen record high gas prices, unusual weather and now the global recession.
So housing as we look at it has or is changing or do we just have to return to basics.
For a time it was that big house with a huge lot on the outskirts, but as the city grows so does the sprawl. Now there is Binbrook, Grimsby and even Brantford. Funny people from Toronto are eyeing Hamilton and we marvel every morning at the CHtv coverage of the commute.
The volume on the 403 is increasing daily as well as the RedHill to the QEW.
I think at times our considerations are backwards when selecting a location. used to be:
location close to work (ie the North end or east end to Dofasco or Steelco, this was important as we wouldn't need a car could walk or take the bus.
Schools for the kids close and a safe stroll even in the rain (buy a rain coat)'
Rec facilities like a park or rec centre for a swim.
Now people move their familitea out in the middle of nowhere (for now)and wait for schools to be built or roads or parks. The kids have to to be driven everywhere even to school on a rainy day. No buses yet.
About time to demolish houses in some of the older areas of Hamilton and build new like the North end. Build or refurbish new schools on old sites like we are seeing at Walnut and Charlton and next to Ivor Wynne.
If the City was on the ball old lots or houses should be sold cheap under a clause that a new house be built within one year.
Maybe start a renovation league of businesses or involve the schools so high school shop classes could learn on a real house.
I remember years ago my school(not here) used to build a complete module home or cottage with all the trades and sell the finished unit to be transported to a foundation.
One factor is snow removal maybe some people should consider that if you buy on a court you will not see a plow immediately after a storm or get one big snowblower for the survey.
We need to get back to basics and work on the infrastructure of the old city before we expand into new frontiers.
We could see a

flar

Dec 22, 2008, 5:42 AM

Knocking down old houses is probably a poor move. A lot of people in Hamilton don't seem to appreciate what a rich stock of older residential architecture Hamilton has. To me, it's Hamilton's greatest asset. Those old row houses are townhouses are relative rarities in Canada and Hamilton's urban neighbourhoods can provide a lifestyle that is increasingly sought after. Any other city or suburb can provide new homes.

coalminecanary

Dec 22, 2008, 2:59 PM

A lot of these older houses have stood strong for 100 years and will easily do so for 100 more. I have less faith in newer construction - minimal timber frame with brick veneer. It may last a generation, or even a lifetime but I don't think it will go into the multiples as well as the double brick stock we have all over lower Hamilton.

BrianE

Dec 22, 2008, 3:06 PM

Agreed.

There are a lot of houses that look bad in the north end right now. Painted over brick, loose mortar, shitty vinyl siding. Notice that I said LOOK bad because underneath the ultra cheap and poorly maintained cladding are houses that are still solid and better constructed than most houses built in the last 50 years.

Don't get me wrong there is still a vast sea of homes in Hamilton that are unsalvagable. Each house should be addressed on it's own merits and not with some blanket policy of tear it down and build anew.

block43

Dec 22, 2008, 3:58 PM

About time to demolish houses in some of the older areas of Hamilton and build new like the North end. Build or refurbish new schools on old sites like we are seeing at Walnut and Charlton and next to Ivor Wynne.

I don't understand your logic? I specifically chose to live in an old house in a downtown neighbourhood for the character of the house, not some plain jane new build. Destroying swaths of older housing stock would destroy the character and charm of the neighbourhood.

FairHamilton

Dec 22, 2008, 5:31 PM

People who avoid buying in the lower city, don't avoid it because the housing stock is old. They avoid buying in the lower city because they want to have a suburban lot with plenty of grass, a backyard, parking for multiple cars, etc.

Tearing down old houses and rebuilding them won't provide that for those wanting it.

highwater

Dec 22, 2008, 7:12 PM

Not to mention the grotesque waste. 1/3 of our landfills already consist of building material. Imagine trying to find landfill space for all the older homes in the lower city. And then imagine all the energy (and trees) required to produce the new homes to take their place, new homes that won't have nearly the same lifespan as the perfectly sound homes they're replacing, and will therefore need to be replaced again much sooner.

The end of the era of cheap energy, and the end of ever-expanding landfills, makes this scenario pretty ludicrous. As a society, we have to put an end to our throwaway mentality. What better place to start than our buildings?

ryan_mcgreal

Dec 22, 2008, 7:24 PM

People who avoid buying in the lower city, don't avoid it because the housing stock is old.

That's funny. One of the reasons I avoided buying in the suburbs is because the housing stock is new.

adam

Dec 22, 2008, 8:01 PM

A structural engineer friend said she's seen new subdivisions 5-10 years old in worse foundational and structural condition than houses from the 1880's here in Hamilton lower city,

flar

Dec 22, 2008, 8:11 PM

The amount of old houses that have been cleaned up and fixed up since I moved here six years ago is truly amazing. Many people are starting to realize their value, often people that have moved here from other cities. But I still hear too much talk about razing the lower city.

The other thing that completely astounds me is the range of reactions I get when I show people my photo tours. There are some people who have spent their whole life in the lower city and can tell me the nearest intersection to practically every photo. There are others who have lived their whole life in Hamilton but have no idea where these neighbourhoods are and are surprised at buildings that I would have thought were well known. As if they are seeing things for the first time.

MsMe

Dec 22, 2008, 8:16 PM

As Mike Holmes always says.... I hate new houses.

oldcoote

Dec 22, 2008, 8:22 PM

One (of the 413) reasons I left Toronto was the trend of razing older homes in order to build a new monster home in its place. Some people call it progress.

That being said, there are some houses that are beyond help, mostly due to years of neglect.

FairHamilton

Dec 22, 2008, 9:33 PM

That's funny. One of the reasons I avoided buying in the suburbs is because the housing stock is new.

Me too. Though, I know plenty of others who want something different than what we want....:shrug:

FairHamilton

Dec 22, 2008, 9:36 PM

The other thing that completely astounds me is the range of reactions I get when I show people my photo tours.

I used your photo tours to sell my wife (a Hamilton native) to purchase in Hamilton. I also used them to convince others were weren't crazy and that Hamilton had some truly great neighbourhoods :tup:.

She was very knowledgible about Hamilton, but has learned so much she didn't know about in the 8 months we've been in Hamilton :D.

emge

Dec 22, 2008, 11:57 PM

Duckyboy

Dec 23, 2008, 9:29 PM

I left Vancouver to live here in Hamilton BECAUSE of the (affordable) older homes.

Destroying them is enviromentally wasteful, perpetuates our "disposable society" mentality and erodes the city's character.

Worst idea ever. Sorry, IMHO.

I've only been here for 1.5 years, and already bought 3 houses: sold one after renovating it, bought another for income purposes and the third is my long-term project which I live in.

I'm saying this because I've also noticed other people doing the same.

You'll soon see others doing the same...

240glt

Dec 23, 2008, 9:43 PM

Interesting discussion about the quality of older vs. newer houses.

The single family homes built in Edmonton and Calgary from around 2000 to 2007 could possibly the poorest quality houses in the country.

Due to runaway demand and tight labor, many of these homes were framed by day laborers, and the overall finished quality of the many new suburban homes I've been in is exceptionally shoddy.

I'd take my current 1946 bungalow over a new mass built spec home any day.

bornagainbiking

Dec 24, 2008, 3:35 AM

So sorry, let me qualifiy my original statement. I am all for reno vs new homes. I agree that many neighbourhoods have so much potential for revitilizattion. I only suggest that some of the areas of neglect or semi-brownfields could have housing instead of moving our into more sprawl. To renovate a house is so much more responsible to our environment.
just get rid of the shacks or decay.
i lived in some older homes when i was a kid and they had such unique ideas that are coming back. One room where the bath and sink are one area and the toilet and sink are another, so someone can shower or bath without blocking off the bath room almost like having two bathrooms.
So glad to hear from the many who are into raising from the ashes.
Thanks for the effort. Best of luck.

omro

Dec 24, 2008, 7:14 PM

I left Vancouver to live here in Hamilton BECAUSE of the (affordable) older homes.

Same reason my brother moved to Hamilton from Vancouver.

mic67

Jan 21, 2009, 3:54 PM

Here are a few houses with those 8x11 papers in the windows which usually is a legal notice or an indication of a foreclosure,etc..

http://www.realtor.ca/propertyDetails.aspx?propertyId=7812276

This does not show any of the cards in the window but I have seen this house, it has been empty for quite some time, and currently has the cards in the windows. A few houses away there was another house that was also foreclosed and sold within days for $48,000.

http://www.realtor.ca/propertyDetails.aspx?propertyId=7874901

Havent seen this one, but check out the location of this one by Van Wagners beach rd.

http://www.realtor.ca/propertyDetails.aspx?propertyId=7812268

Here is another one with cards in the window, havent seen this one.

There are more in the $125,000 and less range. And I see plenty of them in my daily travels many without any reality sign but with cards in the windows and usually empty. It has been said that many dont have reality signs....for reasons....

There havent really been any bargins, yet or maybe they have just been available to a few?? The house on John St for $79,000, now sold?? was about the best value/location I have seen yet.
mic67

SteelTown

Jan 27, 2009, 12:18 PM

Hamilton appears to be weathering real estate storm very well, thank you

January 27, 2009
Lisa Grace Marr
The Hamilton Spectator
http://www.thespec.com/News/Business/article/502479

The tail end of 2008 was a low point in the Canadian real estate market, but Hamilton's is intact, if a bit bruised.

That's according to a new real estate forecast report by Royal LePage released yesterday.

"We still have good value," said Joe Ferrante, broker of record for Royal LePage in Hamilton and president-elect of the Realtors Association of Hamilton/Burlington. "We are well positioned geographically."

That has insulated Hamilton from some of the dramatic drops in housing prices and sales experienced by other areas, such as Toronto and some pockets of the GTA, he said.

For example, while the price of a detached bungalow in metro Toronto fell by anywhere from 7.6 to 18 per cent, in Hamilton the price drop was negligible, ranging from less than 1 to about 3.4 per cent.

The most dramatic drop in prices in Hamilton in the fourth quarter -- 7.5 per cent -- was on the Mountain.

Royal LePage's overall forecast, however, points to steady growth for all regions in the country.

Ferrante said there are already signs the market is picking up.

"Last Friday, the phones were ringing and I took a number of calls Saturday and Sunday about listings. That's a good thing. We do anticipate good things to come this year."

A recent poll commissioned by Royal LePage found that almost half (49 per cent) of Canadians surveyed agree the economic stimulus measures anticipated as part of today's federal budget announcement will have a positive impact on the country's real estate market.

The poll also found 82 per cent of Canadians agree Barack Obama's inauguration will have a positive impact on consumer confidence.

adam

Jan 27, 2009, 10:35 PM

Wow, who woulda thunk that urban sprawl had to slow down one day? Maybe we can start building sustainable developments now. There has never been a better time.

bornagainbiking

Jan 28, 2009, 7:22 AM

I was surprised at the amount of building in downtown Toronto along Bay from Union to Wellesley. Mostly hi-rise Condos and $$$$$$$$. So urban sprawl and the drive may be losing fans.
I saw one of those mini Sobeys. That is what we need downtown Hamilton.
Maybe there will be a return to the urban or townlike setting, i hope.:shrug:

highwater

Jan 28, 2009, 2:57 PM

Besides money, there's something else that Toronto has that Hamilton doesn't: political will. Sprawlsville is still winning in Hamilton because so much of our leadership is out of touch.

Millstone

Jan 29, 2009, 7:07 AM

Besides money, there's something else that Toronto has that Hamilton doesn't: political will. Sprawlsville is still winning in Hamilton because so much of our leadership is out of touch.

Yeah. Back home, even though the people protesting the newfound sprawl were raging treehugging lunatics, they still managed to keep the developers at bay, one way or another.

highwater

Jan 29, 2009, 2:35 PM

Yeah. Back home, even though the people protesting the newfound sprawl were raging treehugging lunatics, they still managed to keep the developers at bay, one way or another.

How do you know they were treehuggers? Anyone who's been paying attention knows that sprawl is a net economic drain. Maybe they were accountants.

adam

Jan 29, 2009, 11:28 PM

Yeah. Back home, even though the people protesting the newfound sprawl were raging treehugging lunatics, they still managed to keep the developers at bay, one way or another.

Since when were the sprawl developers kept at bay? Its only recently that development on the Mountain has started to slow down. The developers have overextended themselves and prices are falling fast in these subdivisions/surveys. As a contrast, house prices in the city are maintaining value.

highwater

Jan 30, 2009, 2:21 PM

I don't think Millstone is referring to the Mountain, but rather 'back home', wherever home is.

Millstone

Jan 30, 2009, 10:20 PM

I don't think Millstone is referring to the Mountain, but rather 'back home', wherever home is.

Pay no attention to the adam, he's a raging lunatic too.

adam

Jan 31, 2009, 12:43 AM

I am outright insane! :banaride:

Zaz

Apr 28, 2009, 12:11 PM

FairHamilton

Apr 28, 2009, 12:49 PM

How are we doing this spring? I seems all houses in the Delta area that could not sell since last summer have now been sold, and most houses listed in March/April 2009 are going fast too. Is this everyone else's impression in lower Hamilton?

When priced appropriately, they are still selling in my neighbourhood for generally the same price as last year.

BrianE

Apr 28, 2009, 1:13 PM

Yeah, it's hard to tell what they're selling for but the listing prices are around the same level... maybe a tad lower. This is just for down the mountain, I havn't looked around the burbs on the mountain. During a recent drive to Limeridge I noticed a lot of for sale signs tho.

There are a bunch of houses that I've noticed have been around since last summer... but they're dumps IMHO.

LikeHamilton

Apr 28, 2009, 1:56 PM

I live just east of Gage Park south of King and my house sold in 3 days in March to a couple from Toronto.

Berklon

Apr 28, 2009, 2:12 PM

I've always browsed the Resale Homes magazine the last few years and I've noticed in the last 5 issues or so that they've slipped in a lot more articles than they have in the past. Articles on buying advice, selling, etc... how to stage your house, mortgages, the state of the housing market, etc. They seem a lot more desperate than they were in the past - that has to be some sort of indication of the market.

Zaz

Apr 28, 2009, 3:56 PM

I live just east of Gage Park south of King and my house sold in 3 days in March to a couple from Toronto.

Congratulations LikeHamilton! Are you moving out of the area?

There seems to be a huge wave of Torontonians coming in. We moved from the GTA not too long ago and loving every minute of it. The evidence is mostly anecdotal, but even our dentist in the GTA said: "you too??? seems like everyone is moving to Hamilton these days, it must be a 'happening place' right now!".

Let's hope Hamilton doesn't lose its easy-going and friendly atmosphere any time soon!

adam

Apr 28, 2009, 4:59 PM

Torontonians who make Hamilton their home will help bring much needed affluence to the area. So are there many folk from Toronto looking at moving to the mountain? Or is it just the lower city?

FairHamilton

Apr 28, 2009, 5:12 PM

Torontonians who make Hamilton their home will help bring much needed affluence to the area. So are there many folk from Toronto looking at moving to the mountain? Or is it just the lower city?

I think it's predominantly the lower city.

It's all about urban living, because if you wanted suburban you can buy a home in Whitby, Ajax, Burlington, Oakville, Brampton, Milton, etc.

highwater

Apr 28, 2009, 5:17 PM

Torontonians who make Hamilton their home will help bring much needed affluence to the area.

Let's hope they're bringing their social and intellectual capital as well.

highwater

Apr 28, 2009, 5:21 PM

Here in Westdale, houses that are priced right are going quickly and even going into competition. The only ones sitting around are the ones priced unrealistically, usually after some quick and dirty cosmetic 'improvements'.

Millstone

Apr 28, 2009, 6:45 PM

Units in my building and surrounding aren't selling that well/at all. According to an agent, March was pretty good and April is seeing a decline.

mic67

May 2, 2009, 8:58 PM

I did an unscientific survey of MLS listings within about a 2 KM range of center mall and it appeared there were about 200 houses for sale, And I do know for a fact that all houses for sale do not have a for sale sign in front, and that some of those houses have been on the market for years. Until recently I haven seen many SOLD signs, not to say there are lots now but more than in the early part of the year.

To buy in Hamilton you better know hamilton rather well, and dont rely on a real estate agent opinion for reviews on location and or area.

mic67

May 14, 2009, 10:59 PM

Home sales jump in April
Third straight monthly increase puts numbers up 32 per cent from January's decade-long low, but still far below last year

HEATHER SCOFFIELD

Globe and Mail Update

May 14, 2009 at 12:54 PM EDT

http://business.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20090514.whomesales0514/BNStory/Business/home

-----------------------------

I still regularly look at the MLS listing in Ham. in the $100,000 and less, and in the last year or so there have been very few bargins maybe about 6 or less that I may have been interested in - I guess those bargins are to be had in other price ranges. Unscientifically (from what I can tell) I think you can get a decent house in the lower city for around $150K, remember area and location, not just the house really matters. And you should really know the areas really well before buying.

Forclosed house in Canada are not being sold like they are in the US, they are being held on to -which says plenty!

Mic67

mic67

May 15, 2009, 3:43 AM

Well, just a few thoughts.

According to the style of house, the relative location (time) and area to downtown and the relative distance to local services ie. grocery store, cleaners, hardware, etc..

If I were to buy a comparable house in Toronto it would cost - as of May 2009 about $350K in toronto vs about 65k in Hamilton. Today could you find that house in Hamilton? Maybe, remember asking price is not selling price. The house I bought was sold for about $15K less than asking. You really have to know the market - never -ever - rely on an agent, their interest is in their commission, that is NOT to say there arent any good agent out there.

And I bought before the general media decided to reveal the real estate meltdown.

Hard to believe, yep. Believe what you want.

mic67

mic67

Jun 28, 2009, 9:16 PM

http://www.realtor.ca/propertyDetails.aspx?propertyId=8444016

Location Description
KING & HESS ST

For Sale: $34,900

Maintenance Fees
: $308.00&nbspmonthly

"General Description

Schedules to be included in all offers. Offers to be negotiated after July 2/09. Allow 48 bus. hrs on offers. Tenanted. Allow 24 hrs notice for showings. Property sold "as is" where is. Good location. Spacious 1 bdrm, kitchen & dinr m, 4 pce bth."

Kitchen Main level 10 ft x 10 ft

Dining room Main level 15 ft x 12 ft

Living room Main level 15 ft x 12 ft

Bedroom Main level 12 ft x 12 ft

4pc Bathroom Main level n/a

Hot water radiator heat

---------------------

Oh ya.......OMG

I do give a lot of credit to the Agent who decided to post images of this place, in the short - it ought to save him lots of time. BTW this "condition" of premises is not that far off from what you get - generally - at the bottom end of the real estate market in Hamilton that I have actually seen. And actually I have seen worst - you may ask how that can be - think dogs,,,,,,,

But a good cleaning and splash of paint would result in significant return....

I know where this building is, basically Hess village aka George street is the backyard to this building.

mic67

mic67

Jun 28, 2009, 9:33 PM

http://www.realtor.ca/propertyDetails.aspx?propertyId=8444016

285 KING Street West - 25
HAMILTON, ON L8P 1B2

NOTE Same building as the other APT.

For Sale: $118,900

"General Description

BEAUTIFUL RENOVATED 1 BEDROOM CONDO UNIT NEAR HESS VILLAGE AND DOWNTOWN HAMILTON. TOP FLOOR, CORNER UNIT, VERY QUIET. MOST WALLS RE-DRYWALLED, SOUNDPROOF INSULATION I THE JOINING WALL, NEW KITCHEN & BATHROOM. CROWN MOLDING, FRESHLY PAINTED, TASTEFUL DECOR. UPDATED PLUMBING AND WIRING. ABSOLUTELY GORGEOUS! CALL ANA FOR APPOINTMENT
Location Description

JUST WEST OF HESS ST"

Foyer Main level 8 ft ,6 in x 7 ft ,8 in

4pc Bathroom Main level n/a

Kitchen Main level 10 ft ,8 in x 6 ft ,6 in

Living room Main level 12 ft ,9 in x 11 ft ,9 in

Bedroom Main level 12 ft ,9 in x 9 ft ,3 in

Dining room Main level 11 ft ,5 in x 8 ft ,11 in

Maintenance Fees
: $308.02&nbspmonthly

----------------------

Also a 1 bedroom apt. For Sale: $118,900 in the same building as the previous posted offering for For Sale: $34,900

Mic67

matt602

Jun 28, 2009, 10:25 PM

Ouch at the bathroom pic of the place at Hess. Wow. Almost looks like they tried to make it look as bad as possible.

omro

Jun 28, 2009, 10:28 PM

Ok, that's pretty gnarly. :yuck:

As an aside, can you post these in the Housing Market threads rather than this one though?

SteelTown

Jun 28, 2009, 10:39 PM

Looks like a crackhouse.

omro

Jun 28, 2009, 10:59 PM

btw this is the correct link for the clean appartment in that building...

H3014428 (http://www.realtor.ca/PropertyDetails.aspx?PropertyID=8267878)

mic67

Jun 28, 2009, 11:21 PM

http://www.realtor.ca/propertyDetails.aspx?propertyId=8444016

is 285 KING Street West - 14
HAMILTON, ON L8P 1B2

For Sale: $34,900

------------------------
http://www.realtor.ca/PropertyDetails.aspx?PropertyID=8267878

Location
: 285 KING Street West - 25
HAMILTON, ON L8P 1B2

For Sale: $118,900
---------------------

With such a price difference for the same sized apt. - in the same building no less.... Had you thinking??? Omro.

Look at the images for the main front door - the same too!

Above was a snip and paste of info from those urls.

BTW the details of the reno'd apt give clue's and details of the building. This building is right on King st just west of Jackson square (James st) 7min24sec walk away. Now if you go on mls and search - center hamilton price range from 0 -$100,000 you will notice quite a few apt for sale in the low $40k on King St (something like 1734 King st east??? - which would be somewhere around Kenilworth??? a pretty decent areas and a south address and King is way less busy there) all in what appears to be the same building - coincidences happens for a reason. I have seen this before where there are a number of apts all in the same building go on sale at or about the same time - same owner???unknown...same reason for the vendors to be selling - would seem likely - regardless dont ever expect the truth.

While looking to move to Ham. I looked at an apt. building near the delta and right on Main St. - facing the street, I doubt I would have stayed there long.

Even though I lived in Ham. before, you really have to know Ham. to buy here... you can easily buy in the wrong area or miss out on an enclave - though there are fewer of those.

Mic67

omro

Jun 28, 2009, 11:26 PM

With such a price difference for the same sized apt. - in the same building no less.... Had you thinking??? Omro.

In a way. But at the same time, I'm not really in a position to do house flipping.

mic67

Jun 28, 2009, 11:48 PM

Well it will have anyone thinking :
-one is over priced and the other is underpriced...remember these are asking prices the one for $118k has been on the market for quite some time as I recall???

Now the one for $34k just came on the market and it is now June 28 - it states offers are not considered till July2 the purpose being they are hoping for multi offers to possibly create bidding. Now the maintenance fee - likely does not include property tax, it is also necessary to determine if it is a co-op or condo, big difference especially if you try and get a mortage with a co-op property. I think this is a condo and not a co-op but it is one of the questions that must be asked, usually if it is a co-op it is stated, but never count on it nor any advice or opinion herein provided, as always YMMV.

In the last 1 1/2 years there has only been one bargin in my price and that was the Place - semi on John St south of Barton for $79K asking...huge bargin...you saw the place Omro. If I didnt own a place I would have probably bought it. And I was actually seriously considering being a second house owner, but given what has gone on in the house market...why bother.

There have been and probably are some decent buys in the $150K to $100K range, but location , location, location matters the most. You can always make a house better - improve it, but the same can not be said about the location a house is in. Actually it is important to make the distinction between good location ie. say relative to shopping, transport, schools, etc. verses a good area ie well kept houses, sort of like the north vs south Hamilton divide. There is such a thing as a good location in a bad area, although over time in such instances the area tends to improve ie. cabbagetown in Toronto 40+ years it took, but dont count on it.

mic67

omro

Jun 29, 2009, 3:59 AM

Buying to flip or rent and buying to own are two different sets of criteria.

When you are buying to own, you concentrate on making a home and what is right for you. The location, location, location criteria differ.

SteelTown

Jul 7, 2009, 3:56 PM

Realtors found June hot, hot, hot

July 07, 2009
Meredith Macleod
The Hamilton Spectator
http://www.thespec.com/News/Business/article/595404

The local real estate market doesn't seem to know there's a recession going on.

In fact, June was a record month for Hamilton and Burlington residential realtors who sold 1,560 homes and condos.

That surpassed "the record number sold in May 2007 during that year's scorching market," explained Bruce King, president of the Realtors Association of Hamilton-Burlington.

Home prices are also up over June of 2008.

Sales of homes and businesses were up 18.6 per cent in June over the same month last year, according to numbers released yesterday by the realtors association.

The 1,604 transactions, including 44 sales of businesses and industrial, farm and vacant land, also marked a jump of 18.5 per cent over May's figures.

"We were expecting a rebound but not this much," said King.

June marked the sixth straight month of increased sales.

"Hamilton and Burlington's home market has always been very strong and the current economic situation doesn't seem to have changed that at all," said King.

The recession has pushed total unit sales for the first six months of 2009 down 10 per cent over the same period last year. New unit listings are also 7.8 per cent lower for the year to date.

But King expects the sales momentum will continue.

"I don't think we'll do better than 2007 or 2008, but there is every reason to think the economic situation won't hit us nearly as hard as we might have thought," said King.

The average price of freehold residential properties sold in June was $315,055, an increase of 1.9 per cent over June last year.

In the condominium market, the average price in June was $219,547, an increase of 1.4 per cent over last year.

Listings remain slow, with the total number of units listed for sale during June at 1,835, down 1.6 per cent from 2008.

Figures released yesterday by the City of Hamilton's building division also show positive signs.

The city issued 450 building permits in June for construction valued at $123 million.

Half of the value comes from industrial development, especially ongoing work at the McMaster Innovation Park.

Residential construction accounted for another quarter of construction value.

While construction value is down 40 per cent over the same value last year, 2008 and 2007 were boom years for local construction. The 12-month numbers for June 2008 to June 2009 beat both 2005 and 2006.

SteelTown

Jul 8, 2009, 11:38 AM

Local real estate shows bounce
House prices rise in second quarter

July 08, 2009
Steve Arnold
The Hamilton Spectator
http://www.thespec.com/News/Business/article/596064

A new report shows house prices rising across Hamilton in the second quarter of this year.

The study by real estate giant Royal LePage shows rising prices across the city's neighbourhoods -- with only a tiny drop in one area. Hamilton's central area led the increases with a rise in values of almost 36 per cent.

Joe Ferrante, broker of record at Royal LePage State Realty, attributed the bounce in prices to buyers finally deciding to take advantage of low-interest-rate mortgages.

"People are recognizing that there are great values out there," he said. "I still read the papers and read about deficits and layoffs so I'm not sure we can call what happened in June a recovery, but it's still nice to see."

Royal LePage president Phil Soper said several forces are helping the real estate market recover -- the business usually picks up in the second quarter of the year and the 2009 figures are being compared to an especially bad 2008.

"We saw a very sharp drop in prices through the winter, but the recovery was equally impressive starting in March," he said.

The study measures changes in the price of both a standard two- storey house and a detached bungalow in Hamilton's Mountain, East, West and Centre areas. Changes are shown for the April-June quarter over the January-March first quarter and over the same quarter last year.

It shows the average price of a detached bungalow on the Mountain was $212,191 during the April-June period, up 2.3 per cent from the same quarter last year. During the first quarter of this year, the same class sold for an average $209,006.

A west end bungalow averaged $245,900 during the second quarter, up 4 per cent from the same period last year. In the first quarter, that property type sold for $229,706. In the east end, a bungalow averaged $167,885, up 0.5 per cent from last year and also rising sharply from $155,560 in the first quarter.

The centre of Hamilton was the big winner, showing an average price of $153,932 during the second quarter, soaring almost 36 per cent from both last year and the $113,150 average reported in the first quarter.

Soper said spikes like that usually result from contractors bidding up the price of the land under houses they want to demolish and replace, or consumers bidding for houses they plan to extensively renovate.

The story for standard two-storey houses across the four regions is largely the same -- a house in that class on the Mountain averaged $304,484 during the second quarter, down 0.1 per cent from the same period last year. This segment was up sharply from the $277,525 average reported in the first quarter.

Standard houses in the west end averaged $279,141 during the second quarter, up 4 per cent from the same period last year, also rising from $229,706 in the first quarter of this year. In the centre area, the standard house averaged $154,896. That's up 9.2 per cent from the same quarter last year and also up from the $135,743 average reported in the first three months of this year.

In the east end, this class averaged $260,711, a 7.2 per cent increase from the same period last year and also up from the $227,111 average in the first quarter.

Berklon

Jul 8, 2009, 12:59 PM

I wouldn't trust any data coming from a real estate firm.

BrianE

Jul 8, 2009, 1:24 PM

The numbers are probably accurate. Cheap money usualy results in a run on houses. Where these reports fail is in interpolating this level of house buying into the future. This level of sales activity cannot possibly be sustained for much longer, prices should continue their downward trend pretty soon.

mic67

Jul 10, 2009, 8:39 AM

Confessions of a Slum Lord, Ontario Housing Tribunal Part 1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QaIQBYbApAY

2,373 views

"After renting a Home I was assured would be cleaned and repaired by the time I moved in a month later, I was greeted by these sights. The audio is the Landlord chocking to explain it all away and d..."

Well I was doing research for videos on YOUTUBE on Hamilton, like Hess village and the like and I saw this...actually watched both parts.

This is beyond OMG..... and I thought I had seen some nasty places!!

mic67

Jul 12, 2009, 1:42 AM

bigguy1231

Jul 12, 2009, 3:55 AM

highwater

Jul 13, 2009, 2:02 AM

Humm...Why all the silence ...wtf this ought to be a place when there is a Royal visit. What is the problem....? Isnt anyone interested???? Oh ya I forgot this URL is only interested in the good of hamilton, cuz the glee club said previously said we know what the bad is.

Mic67

Don't take it personally. The forum hasn't been as active in general, it's summer and people aren't always around. I saw this and was thoroughly repulsed, but didn't have a chance to respond as I was heading out of town for the weekend. I've since forwarded it to a few people. It should be posted in the rental licensing bylaw thread. Scumbags like this are exactly what the bylaw is all about.

emge

Jul 13, 2009, 2:10 AM

I would watch more of it but I don't want to spend 9 minutes on a video :) I've seen some of the same "leftovers" when looking at houses to buy.

Having found a decent (and inexpensive) place to rent here, I know how difficult it is - but it is quite possible if one looks long enough (and takes advantage of nice places with poor advertising or poor pictures).

I completely support regulating rental housing (http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?p=4328065#post4328065)- the profit margins on rental housing are high enough that cutting into them isn't going to harm landlords.

Besides seeing tons of garbage, electrical, fire, and structural issues, I was particularly "thrilled" with the place I saw in a rather nice area of town... that had the stairwell's window pane completely missing and pigeon excrement all over the sill. Lovely.

Jon Dalton

Jul 13, 2009, 2:21 AM

I met one of the worst landlords on friday night. My friend's power went out because his stove was screwed and it short circuited. We were cooking at the time and had to transfer everything to the barbecue. One reason I didn't make the Academica meetup on time.

This guy gave me shit for locking bikes to the back stairway on my way in (while parking a thousand cars on the lot like sardines) and demanded to know who I was visiting. Then when my friend called to say the power was out he gave him shit for that happening. Then when he came (3 hours later) to turn the power back on he gave us shit for using the barbecue. I told my friend to look up the landlord tenant act and the guy called me a smart ass.

This was the day after I'd heard about the recent landlord licensing meeting and some of the lowlifes who showed up to represent landlords. I was so tempted to ask him what he thought of the new licesing rules. He's not going to like it.

highwater

Jul 13, 2009, 2:44 AM

I told my friend to look up the landlord tenant act and the guy called me a smart ass.

You're such a sh*t disturber. ;)

Blurr

Jul 13, 2009, 3:04 AM

this latest video has little to do with Hamilton and even less to do with the housing market.

----------

Why did this guy spend so much time on this slumlord? I could never imagine signing a lease or putting a deposit with a landlord that I heard in the video.

This guy got screwed because he did not do his due diligence, I would be able to spot this slumlord from a mile away. Mr Tenant, Where is your common sense?

----------

Responsibility goes both ways, landlord and tenant.

Jon Dalton

Jul 13, 2009, 4:09 AM

You're such a sh*t disturber. ;)
I disturb it because I'm sick of taking it.

markbarbera

Jul 13, 2009, 8:10 PM

Jon Dalton

Jul 13, 2009, 8:34 PM

Funny, but you're making alot of incorrect assumptions about the situation. The barbecue was outside and the bikes weren't blocking anything. The guy was just being a dick to someone he doesn't even know.

mic67

Jul 13, 2009, 9:04 PM

Blurr

Jul 14, 2009, 2:18 PM

"Blurr
this latest video has little to do with Hamilton and even less to do with the housing market."

Huh???

It has everything to do with it, look on the right side of the page for related videos, particularly Barton St.

This video is so bad it is good - deserving of some sort of award, in fact make it a sticky in this forum.

Where is CHCH on these sort of issues? Oh ya they are all livin in Dundass...Heb and diskin+++ Who and how many of CHCH or the Spec actually live in Hamilton proper or even the lower city? Hahah, ya right

It ought to be required viewing for those considering immigrating to Canada. It just might be the answer to clearing up any backlog in the system :}

A few minutes ago I just met a landlord of a nearby house (3bed, 3 bath detach whole house $850 +Util walking distance to the delta and center mall), tenated for 3 years, 900 lbs of rubbish was removed, 18 mouses, 4 days later and still cleaning, $3,000 in arrears for rent. Then another nearby rental just had 2 full size 1/2 height bins of rubbish removed.

Hamilton is either near the top or the bottom of "the list".

BTW the apt for sale previously mentioned is still for sale.

There are both good and bad - landlords and tenants. But the least that can be done is to kept the place to a "standard of reasonable cleanliness" <from the RTA residential tenancy act...generally and usually this is the tenants responsibility.

Also when you own a property there is something called "pride of ownership" which is void when there are tenants. One Hamiltonian told me that "in the north addresses the condition of the houses vary tremendously" and that aint no lie. There is plenty of "rent geared to income" housing by many organizations. And just simply slum investors...Toronto has out priced them.

There are slumlords everywhere, especially where there is low income housing. Much of low income housing is not profitable, and so yes, buildings get under invested (no return on investment), this is not a Hamilton phenomenon. This is why you do not see private capital moving into low income housing and therefore social housing is public. Even when there is public ownership (see City of Toronto Slumlord) underinvestment and revenue drain occurs.

This video does not portray a typical landlord, it is a set up. Like I said earlier, this guy was not doing his due diligence. There are about 1000 apartments/houses for rent on Kijiji right now and this guy got involved with this landlord? This guy wasting his time. To me, this means this guy is not bright, or he has an alternative motive.

Blurr

Jul 14, 2009, 9:00 PM

similar to my point above.

http://www.four-pillars.ca/2009/07/14/slumlords/

mic67

Jul 15, 2009, 2:09 AM

I have plenty of experience with rentals from both a tenant and landlords perspective. And generally I would say that there is a bias in favor of tenants at the Tribunal, except when it is arrears in rent. So what occurred with the tenant in the video at the Tri. was soooooooo un typical.

Beginning in the late 90's in Toronto multi dwelling units, which were usually sought after and commanded a good price - as it paid the mortgage. The 30 something crowd became house buyers and did not want to be landlords, period. Since that time 4 properties in the family that were multires. were sold and converted back to single family.

In Hamilton it is possible to have a house carry itself as a rental (for the most part), I know enough of them already. That is not possible in any way in Toronto.

Low income rental is significant in Hamilton, both private, corporate and organizational. Windsor, chatham, cornwall, thunderbay.... I am in Hamilton for the affordability of housing, many are.

First of all there is no reason for so much garbage and filth to exist with rentals and that is mostly exclusively a tenant thing. The tenant in the video got the garbage and filth of previous tenants.

If you are a small time landlord you ought to expect to do alot of work yourself and if not why are you a landlord. I also know of situations where tenants did not want anything done so as to not have the rent increase. As a landlord - if the maintenance is not kept up it costs more and eventually makes the place unrentable.

I spent alot of time looking for rentals in Hamilton and Toronto, they dont take down signs when a place is rented, that happens alot, an awful lot, and many of the rentals are outdated
Address: 133 Stinson St, Hamilton, ON, L8N View map
Date Listed: 27-May-09

From http://hamilton.kijiji.ca/

So there is no where near the availability that you suggest.

I dont believe nor does anyone, really believe this " portrays a typical landlord". The video is not a setup by any means, why, what for? But there is clearly no shortage of them in Hamilton, thats for sure.

http://www.four-pillars.ca/2009/02/26/selfish-reasons-to-be-a-good-landlord/

"Mark February 26, 2009 at 11:42 am

My wife & I decided to move from Montreal and took the steps to sell our properties.
One of our properties is a condo that was rented out. The tenant was an outstanding young man; very polite to both my wife & I, never exagerating in his demands. The only thing was: he never cleaned the condo while he lived there…
Our tenant understood our decision to sell but never went out of his way to clean the place up when our agent had prospective buyers visit…
One prospective buyer even told me I’d have a serious problem selling the place…
Well, we did sell it to a gentleman who was looking for a condo he could renovate to his liking.
We figure we lost about 5k in the transaction but I also figure that it would have cost me close to 10k to get the place back in order…
In the end, my tenant left (he couldn’t pay me anymore) and the timing of his departure and the sale of the unit couldn’t have been better.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Don’t get me wrong, there are good tenants out there but I figure that for every good tenant, there must be 8-9 who don’t give a damn about your property.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Living in Quebec just means that the Régie du Loyer (Gov’t hand that handles leases & such) works for the tenants and definitely not for the owners - they think we are all money groveling fanatics who just want to profit from our tenants… By the way, I had previously taken the steps to tell my tenant I wasn’t renewing his lease but when I asked the Régie how long it could take if I wanted to evict him: they said approximately 6 months (and that’s if everything was going right)…"

That is a great link you provided and I particularly like

http://www.four-pillars.ca/2008/02/18/why-you-cant-trust-real-estate-agents-when-buying-a-house/

"Why You Can’t Trust Real Estate Agents When Buying A House"

Mic67

Blurr

Jul 16, 2009, 12:01 PM

I have plenty of experience with rentals from both a tenant and landlords perspective. And generally I would say that there is a bias in favor of tenants at the Tribunal, except when it is arrears in rent. So what occurred with the tenant in the video at the Tri. was soooooooo un typical.

Yes, I am aware of the bias.

In this case I could tell from the slumlords whinny voice that he was a slumlord, it is a shocking defeat.

In Hamilton it is possible to have a house carry itself as a rental (for the most part), I know enough of them already. That is not possible in any way in Toronto.

I agree.

Low income rental is significant in Hamilton, both private, corporate and organizational. Windsor, chatham, cornwall, thunderbay.... I am in Hamilton for the affordability of housing, many are.

Me too. I came for the housing. My first choice was Toronto, but quickly got discouraged. There is clearly more upside potential in Hamilton. Plus, going along for the ride will be fun.

If you are a small time landlord you ought to expect to do alot of work yourself and if not why are you a landlord. I also know of situations where tenants did not want anything done so as to not have the rent increase. As a landlord - if the maintenance is not kept up it costs more and eventually makes the place unrentable.

A fair bit of the good deals in the housing market are from wounded and frustrated small landlords.

I spent alot of time looking for rentals in Hamilton and Toronto, they dont take down signs when a place is rented, that happens alot, an awful lot, and many of the rentals are outdated

Yes but I still stand by my opinion that there are over 1000 apartments/houses available for rent right now in Hamilton. Kijiji is just one of the sources for rentals.

I dont believe nor does anyone, really believe this " portrays a typical landlord". The video is not a setup by any means, why, what for? But there is clearly no shortage of them in Hamilton, thats for sure.

The housing stock in Downtown Hamilton has not seen sufficient investment and repair in 30 years. This is not just due to slumlords (which I pointed out are more abundant in low income areas due to no return on investment). It is also due to lenders giving unfavorable treatment to the downtown, a concentration of renters, and a weak employment environment.

Let me also point out that the proposed licensing of rentals Hamilton has come up with will not help the situation, but will in fact hurt. It will create disincentive for good landlords to run their business in Hamilton. It will also raise rents. There is no clear evidence that licensing has been successful in the US, and there is no where to look in Canada for analysis. Frankly, I don't think that The City of Hamilton is up for the job either.

...If there is a slumlord in an area, go after the slumlord, not everyone.

The Hamilton Hotel that just sold is a good example. That building has broken windows and unfavorable tenants with rotting facade and so on. Why punish the whole street of james north who has tenants when clearly the problem is that one building?

FairHamilton

Jul 16, 2009, 1:08 PM

Let me also point out that the proposed licensing of rentals Hamilton has come up with will not help the situation, but will in fact hurt. It will create disincentive for good landlords to run their business in Hamilton. It will also raise rents. There is no clear evidence that licensing has been successful in the US, and there is no where to look in Canada for analysis. Frankly, I don't think that The City of Hamilton is up for the job either.

...If there is a slumlord in an area, go after the slumlord, not everyone.

In order to go after a slumlord you need to have a method of going after the slumlord. If there is no method you can't go after anything. Will the City of Hamilton do landlord licensing it properly? I don't know.

How do you know it's going to increase rents? Do you know the fee structure that will be involved with the licensing?

Just curious, if you have insight as I've seen no mention of the cost to get a license. It might only be $50, I don't know. But if you have concrete information on how it will increase rents please share.

Finally, have you been to any of the Licensing Landlords meetings? I have and was shocked by what I heard coming out of the mouths of the self-described "Good Landlords".

Blurr

Jul 17, 2009, 12:11 AM

In order to go after a slumlord you need to have a method of going after the slumlord.

There is a method. You have your choice of the landlord and tenant board, community services, housing, legal aid (taxpayer funded), regular courts, tenant advocacy groups (taxpayer funded), the building department, the media...

How do you know it's going to increase rents? Do you know the fee structure that will be involved with the licensing?

It will raise rents, in the event that rents cannot be raised due to market conditions, it will discourage investment because assets in the area will be subject to the licensing fee, which is effectively a tax. Hamilton tenants already pay the highest tax rate in Southern Ontario. Also, this creates disincentive for new rental housing, as the higher tax has a direct effect on the value of rental housing.

Just curious, if you have insight as I've seen no mention of the cost to get a license. It might only be $50, I don't know. But if you have concrete information on how it will increase rents please share.

No I don't have concrete example, it is a new concept in Canada. I know Milwaukee did a study of 15 US cities with licensing and came up with this conclusion in their report...

“The City of Milwaukee should not create a rental unit licensing program because it would not be an effective regulatory or revenue mechanism. We take this position based on the projected high administrative costs, political opposition, possible effects on low-income housing, and uncertain benefits.”

Finally, have you been to any of the Licensing Landlords meetings? I have and was shocked by what I heard coming out of the mouths of the self-described "Good Landlords".

I have spoken to councilors about licensing but I have not been to one of the meetings.

Understand that defending against tenants is tough. Return on investment and net operating income are not sexy arguments like flooded basement or cockroach infestation.

It is the old Widows and Orphans argument. You can make yourself impervious to criticism if you create an organization that ostensibly protects widows and orphans. If anyone opposes you or even criticizes you, it appears that they oppose widows and orphans.

As soon as you object a tenant, it is easy to be labeled a bad landlord, or someone without a conscience and as if you are against tenants, as tenants are protected under this class.

FairHamilton

Jul 17, 2009, 1:29 AM

There is a method. You have your choice of the landlord and tenant board, community services, housing, legal aid (taxpayer funded), regular courts, tenant advocacy groups (taxpayer funded), the building department, the media...

Yeah right. Do you know that a city employee who requests access to a rental unit has to say something to the effect, "By allowing me access, you could be evicted"? And the city says they need access to do anything. A Catch 22 if I've ever heard of one.

It will raise rents, in the event that rents cannot be raised due to market conditions, it will discourage investment because assets in the area will be subject to the licensing fee, which is effectively a tax. Hamilton tenants already pay the highest tax rate in Southern Ontario. Also, this creates disincentive for new rental housing, as the higher tax has a direct effect on the value of rental housing.

Discourage investment, that's laughable. I don't know where you live but as I type this I'm looking at 9 houses, 8 multi-rentals (all illegal) and 1 single family residence (not my own). How will this discourage investment, when it's already there?

Tenants don't pay taxes, the landlord does. The 4 unit house next to me pays $3K per year in property taxes and generates $30K in revenue, I pay $2,700 per year in my single family home. Taxes are paid by landlord and are small part of a landlords expenses, period.

No I don't have concrete example, it is a new concept in Canada. I know Milwaukee did a study of 15 US cities with licensing and came up with this conclusion in their report...

“The City of Milwaukee should not create a rental unit licensing program because it would not be an effective regulatory or revenue mechanism. We take this position based on the projected high administrative costs, political opposition, possible effects on low-income housing, and uncertain benefits.”

Canada and the US are very different places. Kind of like me saying a hockey team wasn't successful in Phoenix, so it won't be successful in Canada. And studies are notoriously biased for those who funded it. Is it just me or does a statement like that sound extremely biased.

I have spoken to councilors about licensing but I have not been to one of the meetings.

Understand that defending against tenants is tough. Return on investment and net operating income are not sexy arguments like flooded basement or cockroach infestation.

It is the old Widows and Orphans argument. You can make yourself impervious to criticism if you create an organization that ostensibly protects widows and orphans. If anyone opposes you or even criticizes you, it appears that they oppose widows and orphans.

As soon as you object a tenant, it is easy to be labeled a bad landlord, or someone without a conscience and as if you are against tenants, as tenants are protected under this class.

I didn't think you'd been to a meeting. The 'good' landlords who have full time jobs and 20 properties (50+ units), complaining the city cites them for bylaw violations. The guy collects cheques and cruises by his properties every few months...... These guys treated being a landlord as a hobby, not a business. And that's just a start of what came out of their mouths.....

Years ago, my father, a plumber by trade, who was licensed in Toronto had to write a test and get a license to plumb 6 houses in Hamilton. We license certified plumbers who are licensed in a neighbouring municpalities to do business in Hamilton, why not landlords who run their whole businesses here?

Blurr

Jul 18, 2009, 12:24 PM

Yeah right. Do you know that a city employee who requests access to a rental unit has to say something to the effect, "By allowing me access, you could be evicted"? And the city says they need access to do anything. A Catch 22 if I've ever heard of one.

Please show me the actual proof of a case in which what you are suggesting actually happened. It sounds absolutely ridiculous - the tenants advocacy groups and free legal aid and media would be all over the city and the landlord if that scenario actually went through.

what about the other handful of methods I mentioned? FREE legal aid, FREE Tenant advocacy groups. You could get one of them on your side to help you navigate the system (which really isn't difficult).

Discourage investment, that's laughable. I don't know where you live but as I type this I'm looking at 9 houses, 8 multi-rentals (all illegal) and 1 single family residence (not my own). How will this discourage investment, when it's already there?

You have emotional attachment to this issue, so I understand your grievance with certain tenants. I have the same grievance.

Despite the above you probably bought your house for a good price given the size of it, and a reason for that price, is that it is a poor rental area (with what I am presuming are bad tenants). In addition, with the change in peoples preference for downtown and cheaper more carefree living, I think that you will continue to see better and better quality tenants moving around you in the years to come. I have noticed this in my neighbourhood lately, as the garbage people are not around as frequent and are being replaced by good people. By the way, I live in a neighbourhood with the exact characteristics as yours.

Big houses Should be divided, as I believe it is actually a great way to increase density and make use of houses too big for today's preferences. There are many success stories with divided houses, such as high park and the southwest of hamilton.

Tenants don't pay taxes, the landlord does. The 4 unit house next to me pays $3K per year in property taxes and generates $30K in revenue, I pay $2,700 per year in my single family home. Taxes are paid by landlord and are small part of a landlords expenses, period.

You are wrong. If that is the case, then why are tenant advocacy groups partnering with landlord groups to get the rental taxes down in the city and more in line with homeowners?

Canada and the US are very different places. Kind of like me saying a hockey team wasn't successful in Phoenix, so it won't be successful in Canada. And studies are notoriously biased for those who funded it. Is it just me or does a statement like that sound extremely biased.

There is no Canadian example, I had mentioned that. Yes, I agree it would be my first choice to look at a Canadian example if it existed.

The recommendation came from the City of Milwaukee, not a special interest group. It may seem biased to you - if you disagree with it so much, but the source is more reliable than if a landlord or tenant issued the report.

Another key point in the report was how the program was unlikely to completely fund itself, meaning that taxes would have to be raised in other places to fund the licensing program.

I didn't think you'd been to a meeting. The 'good' landlords who have full time jobs and 20 properties (50+ units), complaining the city cites them for bylaw violations. The guy collects cheques and cruises by his properties every few months...... These guys treated being a landlord as a hobby, not a business. And that's just a start of what came out of their mouths.....

I have been to a meeting with landlords only and yes, some of them said crazy things - the majority of the landlords disagreed. If you would like to mention something specific, I would be glad to offer my opinion on it.

As the city is seen as an attractive place to invest by more and more professional property management companies, which have a higher standard of ethics - the community and tenants will benefit. It is happening as we speak, as Hamilton is seen a place for investment again. This along with inflow of people in Hamilton will result in more livable neighbourhoods.

Years ago, my father, a plumber by trade, who was licensed in Toronto had to write a test and get a license to plumb 6 houses in Hamilton. We license certified plumbers who are licensed in a neighbouring municpalities to do business in Hamilton, why not landlords who run their whole businesses here?

1. Tenants in Hamilton already pay the highest residential rental tax rate in Ontario. We should be looking to lower that, not increase it.

2. There is little evidence that it works in the US, or in Canada.

3. There are sufficient places that a tenant may go, at no charge, to deal with slumlords in our province, which is tenant friendly.

4. The study shows that in its review of 15 cities, the licensing program likely will not fund itself, which means you Mr. Homeowner will be getting a higher tax bill next year.