[JoLeMaMa]

What's the reasoning behind Atlanta's somewhat low city population? With a metro of over 5 million people, why is the city population half to less than half a mill? I'm comparing Atlanta to cities with higher city populations (yet lower metro populations) such as San Francisco, Phoenix, Boston, etc. and trying to determine as to why Atlanta's city population is, in some instances, much smaller than other cities aforementioned. I've come across one reasoning, whether it be accurate or not:hmmm: :

- because Atlanta's city limits (in sq. mile; the area) is smaller than those of Boston, Phoenix, Jacksonville, San Francisco, etc.

(Note: I've done no research in finding sq. miles/etc b/t cities)
:hmmm: :hmmm: :hmmm:
Thanks for any comments.

[Fiorenza]

It's due to racism, but be thankful for it. The city is left with a much more manageable land area to improve and densify.

[Rail Claimore]

It's still too small though, and by that I mean that certain unincorporated areas of DeKalb and Fulton Counties get Atlanta city services without being in the city limits. If Atlanta's city limits were allowed to expand to the area where it provides services, I'm pretty sure Atlanta would have about 200 sq miles and close to 750,000 people. That's still low though compared to say, Houston or Phoenix.

[littlepnut]

Well some of it could proborly be due to race, nationallity, gas costs, crime, the amount the rent would be each month. That could be the start of it be who really knows the reason why the population is so low!!!!!! :shrug: :(

[SAV]

San Fan and Boston are a lot smaller than Atlanta geographically

[Fiorenza]

San Fan and Boston are a lot smaller than Atlanta geographically

Yes, and much more diverse.

[Mayfd24]

Well, I think one contribution to this difference is the time that Atlanta grew. Most of its explosive growth has occurred later on in the 20th century, when people were, at a faster pace, rushing towards the burbs. At one time, I think, Birmingham was a larger city, and that changed after the 60's. But the city population of Atlanta is still growing, seems to be at a steady pace. That, and much more obvious political reasons...

[Andrea]

Well, I think one contribution to this difference is the time that Atlanta grew. Most of its explosive growth has occurred later on in the 20th century, when people were, at a faster pace, rushing towards the burbs. At one time, I think, Birmingham was a larger city, and that changed after the 60's. But the city population of Atlanta is still growing, seems to be at a steady pace. That, and much more obvious political reasons...

If you're talking about the city of Atlanta proper, it's most explosive growth was in the first half the 1900s. The city was growing by leaps and bounds back in those days. The suburbs didn't really pop until the latter part of the century.

City of Atlanta population:

1900 89,872
1910 154,839
1920 200,616
1930 270,366
1940 302,288
1950 331,314
1960 487,455
1970 496,973
1980 425,022
1990 394,017
2000 416,474

[JiltedSnake]

There are many reasons why the city's population is low (relative to metro pop.). For starters, Fiorenza is correct in pointing out race as a leading factor during the years of white flight to suburban counties. Having said that, black flight has been taking place due to more bang for your buck in the suburbs, and now, foreclosures due to flipped houses (mortgage fraud), subprime, etc. A third of the houses south of I-20 sit empty - an area that can only wish for a fraction of housing development taking place above North avenue.
Also, Atlanta's annexation powers are weak compared to my former home state (NC) where liberal annexation laws were designed to keep the city's tax base strong my annexing "white flight areas" adjacent to the city once those areas reached 2,500 people psm levels. Municipalities need a strong tax base to ward off blight.
My only concern is whether the Atlanta will develop into a city where only the wealthy can afford to live (i.e. San Fran, Boston). Hopefully, we'll do a better job of incorporating diversity into our ever increasing density within the city borders.
Peace!!!!

[Fiorenza]

Small size means local control that's closer to the citizen taxpayers...not necessarily a bad thing.

[Teshadoh]

Summary:

Annexation - the city's last major annexation was in the 1950's, it was believed for several decades that no other annexation would be necessary. By the 1970's though, suburban growth in Dekalb County to the east, Clayton County to the south, Cobb County to the west & Sandy Springs to the north proved otherwise. It was difficult though to annex in adjoining counties (especially Cobb) & Sandy Springs to the north rebuffed several attempts. So, the city essentially stopped annexing (until the past few years again) due to race, infrastructure limitations, negative image of city government & squandered chances.

White Flight - an obvious one already explained fully.

Changes in living habits - Zoning, gentrification, increased mobility, increased wealth & new homes resulted in lower housing densities since the 1960's. Stricter zoning resulted in fewer multi-unit housing that occurred after WWII when houses were subdivided (as was the case in Virginia Highlands). Additionally, a housing boom occurred in the suburbs providing newer & more modern homes outside the city. This housing boom also correlated with increased mobility & wealth for the typical citizen, so many people could afford to move out. Lastly, gentrification beginning in the 1980's has decreased density in many single family neighborhoods - Virginia Highlands, Grant Park & Inman Park for example. As wealthier middle class young couples move in, lower income families move out.

I think that sums up all the possible reasons.

[Fiorenza]

The only possible future annexation possibilities would involve areas that are 95+% black, which is not a good idea for a city trying to present itself as a more diverse environment; but a good move if you are the current group of black politicians and administrators trying to maintain your eroding base of supporters.

[Rail Claimore]

^Atlanta has been planning to annex Sandtown and other areas directly in SW Fulton County that are already close to its city limits. I'm not sure if that's been successful or not, but I suspect that with the moves to municipalize Fulton, Atlanta will get at least part of the currently-unincorporated area.

[Fiorenza]

Atlanta annexed about 3,000 residents last year in Sandtown. That's probably all they get, at least prior to the next election.

[Fiorenza]

Understand, it's in the best interests of all to have a diverse electorate - meaning no single group can dictate to the others. The interests of all are represented, resulting in growth and prosperity for sll.

[ThrashATL]

There have been years in the past decade and a half where 30-35,000 new homes have been built in the metro, they can't all be built in Atlanta and developers go where there's a path of least resistance, the suburbs.

[sprtsluvr8]

^Atlanta has been planning to annex Sandtown and other areas directly in SW Fulton County that are already close to its city limits. I'm not sure if that's been successful or not, but I suspect that with the moves to municipalize Fulton, Atlanta will get at least part of the currently-unincorporated area.

There isn't a lot of adjacent unincorporated area available for annexation...that's a big reason Atlanta hasn't been aggressive in it's annexation in recent years. Most of the area surrounding the city is made up of incorporated cities and towns.

Boston (population 590,000) and San Francisco (population 744,000) are not significantly larger than the city of Atlanta.

[Muskavon]

The simplest answer to the question is the truest..."because it could". Nothing more or less.

[mayhem]

Yes, and much more diverse.

And bound by water.

[GTviajero81]

Too many times the factors of local topography and geography are forgotten.

Older cities were based along waterways. Atlanta epitomises the Modern City. Maintaining and augmenting transportation supremacy and technological resources (i.e. massive student populations with above average intelligence) among other things are what will keep this city on its forward momentum.

[dante2308]

I think the answer is simple. Density. There is simply a maximum density that people will tolerate in the presence of limitless, boundless, cheap land and housing. The only reason we even have a density rise at all is because it became more popular and only slightly more practical. All those racial factors mentioned have more to do with desirability than density. Would not the suburbs have a higher density than Atlanta if race was the only factor?

I think the population of Atlanta doesn't really represent anything but an arbitrary line on a map. No need to note that it has a smaller population than Boston or Jacksonville for that matter because that really doesn't mean much.

[netdragon]

It's still too small though, and by that I mean that certain unincorporated areas of DeKalb and Fulton Counties get Atlanta city services without being in the city limits. If Atlanta's city limits were allowed to expand to the area where it provides services, I'm pretty sure Atlanta would have about 200 sq miles and close to 750,000 people. That's still low though compared to say, Houston or Phoenix.

Atlanta is already 3 times the area of the city limits of Boston and San Francisco and less than 1/7 of the density of those two cities. If Atlanta even increased its density to that of Hartford, CT the city limits would have 1.5 million people. As dante said, it's all about density. Atlanta most likely isn't going to annex any other areas because of politics and it doesn't need to because it already has a lot of underutilized land and a large area that is taken up by industrial areas (many abandoned) that have huge footprints. In fact, it's less dense in population than many of its suburbs. Decatur is about twice as dense and Vinings, Smyrna, Dunwoody and Marietta are about 50% more dense, and Kennessaw and Sandy Springs are about 1/3 more dense.

As land values increase, old industrial areas will be converted to high-density residential (as has already been happening) and industry will probably move to the edge of the metro. The population of Atlanta has increased by over 100,000 since 1990.

[dante2308]

Atlanta is already 3 times the area of the city limits of Boston and San Francisco and less than 1/7 of the density of those two cities. If Atlanta even increased its density to that of Hartford, CT the city limits would have 1.5 million people. As dante said, it's all about density. Atlanta most likely isn't going to annex any other areas because of politics and it doesn't need to because it already has a lot of underutilized land and a large area that is taken up by industrial areas (many abandoned) that have huge footprints. In fact, it's less dense in population than many of its suburbs. Decatur is about twice as dense and Vinings, Smyrna, Dunwoody and Marietta are about 50% more dense, and Kennessaw and Sandy Springs are about 1/3 more dense.

As land values increase, old industrial areas will be converted to high-density residential (as has already been happening) and industry will probably move to the edge of the metro. The population of Atlanta has increased by over 100,000 since 1990.

Those statistics are a bit dubious at best. Boston is 3.341 times the density of Atlanta and 65% the size. If Atlanta had the density of Hartford, its population would be 930,110.

San Francisco is 4.29 times the density of Atlanta and 35.6% of the size.

The density of Dunwoody is 2,711 people/sq. mile as compared to Atlanta's density of 3,690.5 people per square mile. Kennesaw has an even lower density at 2,568 people per square mile. Decator's density is 4,320 persons per square mile which is not 2 times Atlanta but rather only 17% more. It must be noted that midtown Atlanta has a density in excess of 15,000 people per square mile and the fact that Atlanta is so large obscures comparisons to smaller cities. The urban core's density is much higher than the outlying areas.

The population of Atlanta has risen 92,394 since 1990.

As for you industry-residential notes, I would like to say that new industry will more likely revolve around high technology and will most likely locate in the southern region of the metropolitan area due to the more available land and cheaper pricing. Large commercial enterprises will move to Atlanta proper en masse to take advantage of the influx of professional citizens and new prestige that comes with an Atlanta address.

[Behind_Phips]

Those statistics are a bit dubious at best. Boston is 3.341 times the density of Atlanta and 65% the size. If Atlanta had the density of Hartford, its population would be 930,110.

San Francisco is 4.29 times the density of Atlanta and 35.6% of the size.

The density of Dunwoody is 2,711 people/sq. mile as compared to Atlanta's density of 3,690.5 people per square mile. Kennesaw has an even lower density at 2,568 people per square mile. Decator's density is 4,320 persons per square mile which is not 2 times Atlanta but rather only 17% more. It must be noted that midtown Atlanta has a density in excess of 15,000 people per square mile and the fact that Atlanta is so large obscures comparisons to smaller cities. The urban core's density is much higher than the outlying areas.

The population of Atlanta has risen 92,394 since 1990.

As for you industry-residential notes, I would like to say that new industry will more likely revolve around high technology and will most likely locate in the southern region of the metropolitan area due to the more available land and cheaper pricing. Large commercial enterprises will move to Atlanta proper en masse to take advantage of the influx of professional citizens and new prestige that comes with an Atlanta address.

Aren't you a smarty Dante.:tup:

How about you use your sources and see if Cumberland is denser than Buckhead. I want a link to your data too. Not that I don't trust you.;)

[dante2308]

Aren't you a smarty Dante.:tup:

How about you use your sources and see if Cumberland is denser than Buckhead. I want a link to your data too. Not that I don't trust you.;)

sure lol wikipedia.com. trusted everywhere. (those values are from census estimates which are availabale on every city and are from 2006). Would you like it in table form?

[Behind_Phips]

sure lol wikipedia.com. trusted everywhere. (those values are from census estimates which are availabale on every city and are from 2006). Would you like it in table form?

Yes, please. :tup:

[dante2308]

Yes, please. :tup:

Damn you!

http://www.census.gov/popest/cities/tables/SUB-EST2006-01.csv

City Size Population(2006) (do the density at home kids!)
Atlanta 132.4 486411
Boston 89.6 590763
Hartford 18.0 124512
San Francisco 47 744041
Decatur 4.2 18147
Dunwoody 12.1 32808
Kennesaw 8.5 30522

Disclaimers. These are the size of the city limits. If your city is listed and has decided to have some lake or river or bay as part of your city, don't blame me.

[Behind_Phips]

Damn you!



Don't sass me ya punk.

Where's Cumberland on that list? - being it is so dense in your words, it surely made the list. Or did you conveniently omit (by mistake of course).

[dante2308]

Don't sass me ya punk.

Where's Cumberland on that list? - being it is so dense in your words, it surely made the list. Or did you conveniently omit (by mistake of course).

Cumberland is not a city so I have no data on it. I did talk about Midtown's density though so feel free to read one of my bore-a-thread-to-death posts on another site. (I play dante-sim, the annoying but accurate statistician)

http://www.city-data.com/forum/atlanta/181077-possible-live-atlanta-w-o-car-5.html#post1914187

[Behind_Phips]

Cumberland is not a city so I have no data on it. I did talk about Midtown's density though so feel free to read one of my bore-a-thread-to-death posts on another site. (I play dante-sim, the annoying but accurate statistician)

http://www.city-data.com/forum/atlanta/181077-possible-live-atlanta-w-o-car-5.html#post1914187

Nerd Alert---Nerd Alert---Nerd Alert!

[dante2308]

Nerd Alert---Nerd Alert---Nerd Alert!

W/e I have dredlocks and I'm in a band.

[Behind_Phips]

W/e I have dredlocks and I'm in a band.

Explain the pocket proctor then....

Seriously, I tried to read that thread, but fell asleep twice.

[dante2308]

Explain the pocket proctor then....

Seriously, I tried to read that thread, but fell asleep twice.

I'll delete that. I've been giving away way too many personal details lately.

[GTviajero81]

What's the good word Dante? ;)

Are you in CP, CE, ARCH, or EIA?

Me, I'm IAML.
*Only the cool ones will know what the preceeding sentences mean*

:cool:

[SteveD]

What's the good word Dante? ;)

Are you in CP, CE, ARCH, or EIA?

Me, I'm IAML.
*Only the cool ones will know what the preceeding sentences mean*

:cool:

nice to learn that I'm cool....:tup:

[dante2308]

What's the good word Dante? ;)

Are you in CP, CE, ARCH, or EIA?

Me, I'm IAML.
*Only the cool ones will know what the preceeding sentences mean*

:cool:

To Hell with Georgia

AE

[GTviajero81]

Lovely! :)