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View Full Version : Ontario & Quebec study high speed rail



Mister F
01-15-2008, 10:18 PM
This is posted in the Canada section but not in Transportation. This would be huge for Ontario and Quebec... if anything is done once the study's complete, that is.

http://www.thestar.com/article/293107

Onboard for high-speed line

Quebec City-Windsor rail link resurrected by McGuinty, Charest
Jan 11, 2008 04:30 AM
bruce campion-smith
Ottawa bureau chief

OTTAWA–After decades of study and debate, the premiers of Ontario and Quebec now say a high-speed rail line from Quebec City to Windsor is an idea whose "time has come."

Ontario Premier Dalton McGuinty and Quebec Premier Jean Charest yesterday announced yet another feasibility study of a fast train line, but both made clear they thought the ambitious project may finally get on track.

Any such project would come with a hefty price tag. A 1995 feasibility study pegged the cost then at $18.3 billion.

"This has been talked about for quite some time but every once in a while there's an idea whose time actually comes," McGuinty said.

Charest said it was an idea "worth pursuing."

"I see this as a project that will have many, many economic, social and environmental benefits," he said after meeting with McGuinty at the Chateau Laurier.

While many studies have already been done, McGuinty said it was time to do one that took into account "some of the new realities."

Congested roads, ballooning gas prices and growing worries over climate change have all given new life to this old dream, the premiers said. And they pitched the multi-billion-dollar, 1,200-kilometre rail line as a massive job-creation scheme.

"I don't think there's any doubt there's going to be lots of good Ontario and Quebec jobs created as a result of this project," McGuinty said, citing the need for workers to build the tracks, manufacture the cars and engineer the high-speed technology.

Canadian Auto Workers president Buzz Hargrove said he would be "very supportive" of such a rail link if the rolling stock is built here.

"We need something different from what's happening today, a major mega-project that recognizes manufacturing is really, really struggling," Hargrove said before a morning Queen's Park meeting with McGuinty and auto executives to discuss the auto industry.

"As long as it's combined with a requirement that the vehicles or the cars that they use are purchased or built in Ontario or Canada then I'll be fine with it," he said.

Federal Transport Minister Lawrence Cannon said later that Ottawa would share the study cost.

"This government is committed to examining alternatives that offer comfortable, faster and more reliable passenger rail services that will also contribute to reducing greenhouse gases and other emissions," Cannon said in a statement.

But he said governments would have to assess the willingness of private firms to share in the cost "so that taxpayers do not have to shoulder the entire financial burden."

Long-time supporters of the project are expressing optimism that talk may finally turn into action.

"The time is now because of fuel costs ... because of the environment and because of the economy," said David Jeanes, president of Transport 2000 Canada, a public transportation advocacy group.

The 1995 study of the project, done by the three levels of government, concluded that a high-speed rail line would woo passengers away from cars and airlines, resulting in a 20 per cent cut in energy consumption related to intercity travel. It also forecast a reduction in greenhouse gases.

The new service would also be a boon to travellers. Whizzing along the tracks at upwards of 300 km/h – double the speed of VIA Rail's current trains – it would take two hours and 18 minutes to travel between Montreal and Toronto, down from four hours.

With files from Robert Benzie

lrt's friend
01-16-2008, 02:43 PM
We have seen many studies before. :(

Swede
01-16-2008, 09:32 PM
Upwards of 300 km/h? why not 350 km/h?
I hope it gets built, with the cities all lined up and with the kind of distances between them that are, having HSR is perfect.

Kilgore Trout
01-16-2008, 10:14 PM
I'd be surprised if anything actually comes of this, which is a shame, because the Windsor-Quebec corridor is a perfect candidate for high speed rail. Nearly half of Canada's population is arranged in pretty much linear fashion: Windsor, London, Kitchener-Waterloo, Hamilton and the GTA, Kingston, Montreal, Trois-Rivières and Quebec City.

onishenko
01-17-2008, 02:55 AM
It would be hard to hit KW if you were going for Hamilton. Not linear at all, but a significant amount of population either way.

How many times has this come up and died before? When was it first conceived? What kills it when it does die each time?

OhioGuy
01-17-2008, 03:12 AM
It wouldn't be too difficult to hit both Kitchener & Hamilton. It would just involve a bit of a southward jaunt from KW to get to Hamilton before the line would return to a mainly northeast direction the remainder of the route to Quebec City.

onishenko
01-17-2008, 03:40 AM
Which I guess is fine if the only speed you are "really" looking for is between Toronto and Montreal...

Mister F
01-17-2008, 04:09 AM
Upwards of 300 km/h? why not 350 km/h?
I hope it gets built, with the cities all lined up and with the kind of distances between them that are, having HSR is perfect.
I think that's just speculation on the reporter's part.

It wouldn't be too difficult to hit both Kitchener & Hamilton. It would just involve a bit of a southward jaunt from KW to get to Hamilton before the line would return to a mainly northeast direction the remainder of the route to Quebec City.
IMO, the ideal would be two lines - one going to Pearson Airport, Kitchener-Waterloo, London, and Windsor/Detroit, and another going to Hamilton, Niagara Region, and Buffalo. That way all the big population centres are served.

Nutterbug
01-17-2008, 05:02 AM
How about Chicago-Quebec City, with a checkpoint stop at Detroit/Windsor?

OhioGuy
01-17-2008, 05:38 AM
How about Chicago-Quebec City, with a checkpoint stop at Detroit/Windsor?

I'm all for that. :tup:

pdxtex
01-17-2008, 10:54 AM
Rail Canada better adjust their pricing if they want to convince anybody that riding a high speed train is going to be a better alternative to driving. a round trip ticket from windsor to toronto is $114 for economy class. that sounds like alot of dough for what should be a 3 hour drive.

Mister F
01-17-2008, 01:40 PM
How about Chicago-Quebec City, with a checkpoint stop at Detroit/Windsor?
A 2.5 hour train ride to Chicago? Nice. I think if Ontario and Quebec actually build this, other jurisdictions will follow pretty quickly. I mean, if Canada can do it...

Rail Canada better adjust their pricing if they want to convince anybody that riding a high speed train is going to be a better alternative to driving. a round trip ticket from windsor to toronto is $114 for economy class. that sounds like alot of dough for what should be a 3 hour drive.
That doesn't sound bad to me. It's cheaper than Greyhound.

onishenko
01-17-2008, 01:41 PM
Rail Canada better adjust their pricing if they want to convince anybody that riding a high speed train is going to be a better alternative to driving. a round trip ticket from windsor to toronto is $114 for economy class. that sounds like alot of dough for what should be a 3 hour drive.

Not really. Cheaper then running a car both ways. (gas plus expense of usage [wear and tear])

GreatTallNorth2
01-17-2008, 09:27 PM
There are now 8 trains to Toronto from London each day (and vice versa). The trains are always full. A good start would be to make half of these trains express where they only stop at major centres. That would cut time by at least 20 minutes.

The Windsor to Q.C. corridor could easily support rapid trains. The population is there today and I think this would have huge economic benefits for both provinces.

mbeaumont
01-18-2008, 05:38 AM
I could see places like Trois Riviers become a suburb of montreal especially since the housing is alot cheaper there, since its only half an hour away driving it would take less than half the time on the high speed train going downtown

pdxtex
01-18-2008, 08:31 AM
It would cost roughly $50 in gas (US) to drive between Toronto and Windsor and Rail Canada still charges more then twice that for the same trip. Anyway, im not an economist and I would definitely prefer to have transit alternatives.

Kilgore Trout
01-18-2008, 02:27 PM
its only half an hour away driving

You mean an hour and a half, right? It might take half an hour from, say, Repentigny, but it's at least another 30-60 minutes from there downtown, depending on the traffic.

HSR could potentially cut the travel time between downtown Montreal and Trois-Rivières to 30-45 minutes, so it could definitely start attracting commuters, as long as tickets are affordable.

Mister F
01-18-2008, 02:34 PM
It would cost roughly $50 in gas (US) to drive between Toronto and Windsor and Rail Canada still charges more then twice that for the same trip. Anyway, im not an economist and I would definitely prefer to have transit alternatives.
$50 sounds pretty cheap for that distance, at upwards of 100 km/h, in winter, in anything other than a compact. Besides there's a lot more than the cost of gas involved in driving. Even routine maintenance costs a lot, let alone major repairs. That's why companies pay their employees upwards of 50 cents per km when they do work related driving. If you did that drive for work it would cost them around $350!

lrt's friend
01-18-2008, 03:06 PM
A few years back, I had to take a business trip between Ottawa and Guelph. It was the winter time and I was nervous about the driving, so I did a cost comparison using the standard rate paid to me for using my car. The rate was not generous compared to other companies.

Anyway, I compared the cost of using my car, with taking Via Rail to Toronto (Via 1 class so meals were included), staying overnight at the Royal York Hotel, and renting a car to make the round trip between Guelph and Toronto. It turned out to be a little cheaper to use the Train/car rental option so I happily chose it. When the evening came to take the trip, there was a major snow storm (I watched it from the comfort of the train while sipping a complementary glass of wine), and I arrived at my meeting the following morning relaxed and well rested.

The cost of flying and using a car rental or shuttle was equally expensive.

The interesting thing about it all. I didn't lose any time from my work schedule because I was able to take evening trains both ways.

GSTom1
01-18-2008, 06:47 PM
Should we also add a spur to Ottawa? We wouldn't want to ignore he politicians who will be asked to pony up the cash for this!

:worship:

Justin10000
01-18-2008, 06:51 PM
High Speed Rail between Toronto/Ottawa is a no-brainer!

Same with Ottawa-Montreal..

mbeaumont
01-18-2008, 09:39 PM
You mean an hour and a half, right? It might take half an hour from, say, Repentigny, but it's at least another 30-60 minutes from there downtown, depending on the traffic.

HSR could potentially cut the travel time between downtown Montreal and Trois-Rivières to 30-45 minutes, so it could definitely start attracting commuters, as long as tickets are affordable.

yeah my bad, I meant an hour and a half

kitchener-lrt
01-18-2008, 10:00 PM
Should we also add a spur to Ottawa? We wouldn't want to ignore he politicians who will be asked to pony up the cash for this!

:worship:

Nope, there isn't a need for a spur line to Ottawa, considering it would be located on the main line. The line would probably travel like this: Toronto-Ottawa-Montreal.



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