[Cambridgite]

Recently, in another thread under the Canada section, we got to talking about how some cities are monocentric in form, with a single downtown where most employment is concentrated. Others may have multiple traditional downtowns, suburban downtown, major non-concentrated employment zones in the suburbs, and so forth.

So with all of these considerations, is your city monocentric or polycentric? What are the various downtown areas and suburban activity nodes in your metropolitan area?

[Xelebes]

Edmonton = definitive polycentric

[mr.x]

Just a few of Vancouver's regional centres:



New Westminster
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2026/2177514714_d8d9c36acf.jpg?v=0



Richmond City Centre
http://www.vancouver2010.com/images/Features/1_Richmond_Oval.jpg




West Vancouver
** Image removed by administration because of hot-linking





North Vancouver (Vancouver's Kowloon)
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/156/424626594_839ac318d1.jpg?v=0

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/224/483011198_dfff571789.jpg?v=0





Metrotown
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2375/1897994374_e8aaef6547.jpg?v=0

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2291/1571926685_251ea8690f.jpg?v=0

[Spocket]

Other than industrial parks the closest thing my city has to a secondary downtown is maybe Polo Park. It's a shopping district for the most part with some office mixed in. Used to be almost exclusively industrial but the shopping district is steadily growing into that part.

[Cambridgite]

Mr. x2, I had no idea Vancity's regional centres were so large, especially New Westminster. Is New Westminster built from a traditionally separate town though? Which ones were there before and which ones were greenfield developments?

[Cambridgite]

Edmonton = definitive polycentric

Examples?

[401_King]

North York
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1427/1428692475_de3599f882_b.jpg


would Sauga count?????????????
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1113/965543742_3cd24e6784_o.jpg

[Boris2k7]

I'd say that Calgary is definately monocentric, but there are at least signs of future suburban nodes. Or rather, they are emergent. I'm thinking Chinook/Southland/Westbrook/Seton.

[feepa]

Examples?
look at the land use map of Edmonton region?

http://img297.imageshack.us/img297/959/plannedmluno6.jpg

[flar]

All the cities in Man/Sask/Alberta seem monocentric to me. They're all regional centres that draw people in from a large area.

[401_King]

I'd say that Calgary is definately monocentric, but there are at least signs of future suburban nodes. Or rather, they are emergent. I'm thinking Chinook/Southland/Westbrook/Seton.

mcleod trail near chinook and south of that has many engineering houses and offices!

[Boris2k7]

mcleod trail near chinook and south of that has many engineering houses and offices!

Yes, but they do not make for secondary downtowns of any sort. At least not yet. Certainly nothing like North York.

[Cambridgite]

For Waterloo Region (roughly the Kitchener CMA), there are 5 traditional downtowns, no suburban downtowns, and several major suburban employment centres. Polycentricity is taken to the most extreme of cases.

The traditional downtowns (in order of importance):

Downtown Kitchener (employs approximately 12,000 people)
Uptown Waterloo (employs approximately 8,000 people)
Galt (Cambridge)
Preston (Cambridge)
Hespeler (Cambridge)

Currently, all of these downtowns are seeing some form of investment through reurbanization. However, only Kitchener and Waterloo are seeing an increase in the amount of core office space. LRT is sure to intensify their positions as regional hubs into the future.

Major suburban nodes.

Functionally, the downtown areas are dwarfed by the large suburban employment districts in between and around them. Some of the more major nodes include:

- Central Cambridge.

Extending from Can-Amera Parkway, north to Jamieson Parkway, east to Townline, and just west of Hespeler Road (colossal suburban retail strip), it includes Eagle Industrial Park, Lovell Industrial Park, and the rapidly developing Pinebush Business Park. Much of the area is manufacturing and warehousing based, but there has also been a recent surge in white collar employment in the area, including insurance, high-tech, finance, and other sectors. Access to the 401 is a major driver for this particular node.

- Cambridge Business Park / Sportsworld

On the Cambridge side of this node, it is mostly manufacturing and warehousing. This node is newer and also fast growing. It also includes many small offices with ample parking. More expansions are planned later this year. On the Kitchener side is Sportsworld, which has all the big-box essentials, along with a former amusement park that is being redeveloped into a mixed-use project with retail, hotels, and hundreds of thousands of square feet of office space. The major drivers of this node are access to highway 8 and the 401.

- Huron Business Park

On the west side of Kitchener, it's an industrial park that is mostly built out.

- Riverbend / Victoria Street east

Riverbend Drive contains several office buildings with ample parking facing the busy Conestoga Parkway. The major driver of this node is highway visibility. Victoria street east is another suburban retail strip, but to the north is a linear industrial park.

- UW/Laurier/Research and Technology Park

This is one of the 'edge cities' where Waterloo's most talked about company is (take a guess at who). I don't know the exact figures, but U of Waterloo and Wilfred Laurier employ thousands themselves. On nearby Phillip street, RIM (yes, I said it :P ) has several lowrise buildings. To the north of UW campus is mostly open fields, although they are quickly getting snatched up as the Research and Technology Park continues to grow. Pretty much all of the high tech companies and R & D who locate here do so out of the need to be close to the universities. I would venture to guess that this node has more white collar jobs in it than does all of downtown Kitchener.

- North Waterloo.

Mostly an industrial park with another retail strip cutting through. However, some of the buildings in this industrial park are also offices, including high tech. The interchange of King street and the Conestoga Parkway has become an important exit, with Manulife's Canadian headquarters there, along with hotels, a regional mall, and some smaller office buildings.

- Waterloo Region "International" Airport

Don't be fooled by the name. It's not a big airport. But we can call it international because it has daily flights to Detroit and some seasonal service to more tropical locales. Today, it's not a big employment zone at all. However, the Region has designated a 700 hectare reserve of land around the airport to become employment lands, since we'll probably run out of industrial land within the medium-term.

[Architype]

Mr. x2, I had no idea Vancity's regional centres were so large, especially New Westminster. Is New Westminster built from a traditionally separate town though? Which ones were there before and which ones were greenfield developments?
New Westminster is & was a separate city which is older than Vancouver. It was once the capital of BC, and is older and more urban than most of the surrounding areas. It existed when everything between it and Vancouver was forest.

[Xelebes]

Examples?

Downtown (CBD, Government Office, Niche Office)
Old Strathcona (Whyte Ave) (University Office, Niche Office)
Old Beverley (118th Ave) (Commercial, Niche Office)
Old Jasper Place (Stony Plain Road) (Commercial, Industrial, Niche Office)
Old Duggan (Southgate) (Commercial)
St. Albert (Niche Office)
Fort. Saskatchewan (Refineries)
Leduc-Nisku (Airport industrial)
Redwater (Heavy Industrial)
Strathcona (Heavy Industrial)

[SHOFEAR]

Examples?

Downtown (CBD, Government Office, Niche Office)
Old Strathcona (Whyte Ave) (University Office, Niche Office)
Old Beverley (118th Ave) (Commercial, Niche Office)
Old Jasper Place (Stony Plain Road) (Commercial, Industrial, Niche Office)
Old Duggan (Southgate) (Commercial)
St. Albert (Niche Office)
Fort. Saskatchewan (Refineries)
Leduc-Nisku (Airport industrial)
Redwater (Heavy Industrial)
Strathcona (Heavy Industrial)

uhhh... University?

[SpongeG]

Mr. x2, I had no idea Vancity's regional centres were so large, especially New Westminster. Is New Westminster built from a traditionally separate town though? Which ones were there before and which ones were greenfield developments?

new westminster is older than Vancouver and was for a while the capital of BC until they gave it to Victoria

edit: d'oh someone already answered

my friends grandma was in new west her whole life - she can remember when going into Vancouver was a Day trip! now people do that trip for coffee

[PhilippeMtl]

North York
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1427/1428692475_de3599f882_b.jpg


This picture is incredible.

[vid]

Thunder Bay is both, in a way. One could argue that the city is monocentrically oriented to the Intercity area between Port Arthur and Fort William. On the other hand, the city evolved polycentrically. Port Arthur, Fort William, Westfort, and to a lesser degree Northwood, Current River, and Jumbo Gardens/County Park all have centres that are sort of combination suburban/urban (Moreso Current River than the other two, which are centred on large malls.) Fort William also has a suburban business area by the airport, the location of many government agencies. The lack of a cohesive centre makes us similar to Mississauga in many aspects, but less dependent on a neighbouring major centre. ;)

A map!

http://img297.imageshack.us/img297/7126/polycentricityle8.jpg
Simply put: The bigger the circle, the more influential the hub is.

Intercity is now the largest and most dominant commercial area. Since the floodway opened in 1986 it has seen rapid development. It's mainly suburban retail and industrial areas, while the western edge has office parks. Intercity Shopping Centre is arguably the centre of Thunder Bay (Our Square One, if you will) while Balmoral Park would be like those office parks along the 401.

Downtowns Fort William (DTFW) and Port Arthur (DTPA) are the old cores, DTFW being centred on an urban mall (Built in 1980 or so) and DTPA being centred on the waterfront and the "entertainment district"; they don't have anywhere near as much influence as they used to. DTFW is basically the government centre and DTPA has a bunch of night spots and a casino. (And Marina Park.) Generally, people from Fort William don't go to Downtown Port Arthur, and vice versa. But everyone goes to Intercity.

Westfort Village, Northwood, Dawson Heights, and Current River are largely neighbourhood cores. They don't get many visitors from other parts of the city. Westfort is the oldest "downtown" in Northwestern Ontario and has lots of neat shoppes so its the most well known. Northwood and Dawson Heights are both centred on shopping malls with 20-40 stores each, Dawson Heights also has a hotel, grocery store, and some independent places but is very car oriented. Between Dawson Heights and DTPA is a shopping area, so it's pretty much just an extension of Downtown Port Arthur, similar to how Young Street bridges the gap between Toronto and North York (but much less interesting. ;)) Current River has some stores centred on an intersection with a strip mall and some restaurants. It only really gets locals and people going to the golf course near by, but also benefits by the industry by the lake. It can get surprising busy considering that part of the city only has 4,000 people.

Only DTPA, DTFW and Westfort Village were actual downtowns. The others just mimic downtowns. (Like Square One for Mississauga, or New Sudbury Centre in northeast Sudbury.)

[Xelebes]

uhhh... University?

Old Strathcona, however, they could be separated.

[skyscraper_1]

Halifax has Burnside and Bayer's Lake business parks. There is also downtown Dartmouth.

[MolsonExport]

[QUOTE=401_King;3314848]North York
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1427/1428692475_de3599f882_b.jpg


QUOTE]


That is a really cool and appropriate photo. Mel Lastman must be very proud (NOOOOOOOOOOOBODY!)

[MolsonExport]

London, Ontario:
1. Downtown
2. White Oaks area
3. Masonville area

But truthfully, the latter are just boring big-box suburban crappy nodes.

[caltrane74]

consumers rd (north York)

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1284/944721776_4c9ec99cb0.jpg?v=0

[citizen j]

Ottawa-Gatineau:
- Tunney's Pasture
- Confederation Heights/Carleton U.
- Kanata

did I miss any other significant concentrations of office space? NRC and the Blair Road corridor? Carling/Preston/Queensway/Rochester? Medical node along Smyth? South end of St. Laurent isn't a secondary downtown, it's just a suburban office park of lesser magnitude than Kanata. Same is true of the Hunt Club corridor around the Rideau River.

[miketoronto]

I don't really think North York Centre can be considered suburban, or a suburban business district.

Lets be honest here. North York Centre grew because of the subway line. Not Mel Lastman. North York Centre is a natural spot for an uptown district. North York Centre has always operated as an uptown district for Toronto.
Different from the suburban office park centres of other cities with so called suburban downtowns.

Downtown Toronto, Yonge-Eglinton, and North York Centre form a connected central core or band of activities, employment, and entertainment. Infact approx 500,000 people work in the core area of Downtown, Yonge-Eglinton, North York Centre.
------

Onto Canada, the weirdest suburban downtown I have been to is St Foy in Quebec City. I say it is weird, because it basically is the new centre of Quebec, instead of Old Quebec and Downtown Quebec City.
St Foy is the place everyone in Metro Quebec goes to shop at Place St Foy and Place Laurier. It is home to many corporate headquarters and a university campus. It is so major, that Quebec's public transit system operates express commuter bus service from all the different suburbs, express to St Foy.
Talk about overpowering the real downtown, I think St Foy has done that. And for such a small city, who thought Quebec City even needed a subdistrict.

[miketoronto]

Thunder Bay is both, in a way. One could argue that the city is monocentrically oriented to the Intercity area between Port Arthur and Fort William. On the other hand, the city evolved polycentrically. Port Arthur, Fort William, Westfort, and to a lesser degree Northwood, Current River, and Jumbo Gardens/County Park all have centres that are sort of combination suburban/urban


One could say INTERCITY is the "downtown" and that downtown Port Arthur and downtown Fort William are subdistricts to Intercity. As sad as that is.

[vid]

I wouldn't say they're subdistricts.. They're quite separate really, both are buffered by fairly old residential areas for at least half a kilometre though the main streets blend quite well. But the downtown cores aren't subdistricts of Intercity.

[Jamaican-Phoenix]

Ottawa-Gatineau:
- Tunney's Pasture
- Confederation Heights/Carleton U.
- Kanata

did I miss any other significant concentrations of office space? NRC and the Blair Road corridor? Carling/Preston/Queensway/Rochester? Medical node along Smyth? South end of St. Laurent isn't a secondary downtown, it's just a suburban office park of lesser magnitude than Kanata. Same is true of the Hunt Club corridor around the Rideau River.

You missed the Booth St. Government Complex... :)

[alps]

There are around 30,000 people employed in downtown Halifax, and around 15,000 at Burnside Park...those would be the two largest here.

[LeftCoaster]

Just another town Centre in Vancouver SFU forgot, the Brentwood area in Burnaby.

Pretty much none of this existed about 5-10 years ago, the growth is astounding and theres much more on the way, including a few more office towers.

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i305/mattcav/DSCF0203.jpg

[citizen j]

You missed the Booth St. Government Complex... :)

Ah, that's the street. I was thinking Booth but wrote Rochester. With a little infill on Carling, it could easily link up with the medical node further west at the Civic and the Royal Ottawa, with the Experimental Farm cluster part-way between them.

[flar]

Hamilton has many secondary downtowns (employment centres is another thing):

Locke South: (http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=135162)
http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k28/segaert/kirkendall/00259.jpg

Concession: (http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=140408)
http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k28/segaert/concession_st/00086.jpg

Burlington:
http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k28/segaert/burlington/00075.jpg

Ottawa Street (textile district): (http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=135905)
http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k28/segaert/ottawa/00119.jpg

Kenilworth:
http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k28/segaert/kenilworth/00033.jpg

Westdale: (http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=135327)
http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k28/segaert/newwestdale/1.00003.jpg

Barton Village: (http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=119700)
http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k28/segaert/barton/00076.jpg

Dundas: (http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=131127)
http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k28/segaert/dundasspring/00041b.jpg

Stoney Creek:
http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k28/segaert/stoneycreek/00030.jpg

Jamesville: (http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=141853)
http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k28/segaert/jamesville/00015.jpg

[joelpiecowye]

saskatoon has quite a few too accually

broadway

http://olc.spsd.sk.ca/DE/k9mod/hstoon/photogallery2/images/theater1_JPG_jpg.jpg

riversdale

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y246/ggphotographs/49-saskatoon/DSCF1063.jpg

sutherland
http://www.sutherlandforestgrove.ca/images/centralave2.gif

8th street

sorry for the poor pictures they dont have many onn the web of them

[miketoronto]

I think we are including places that are not suburban downtowns or hubs.
Neighbourhood strips like Locke Street or Westdale in Hamilton are not subdistricts like an Uptown business area, etc.
They are just complementary neighbourhood strips that work in synergy with the central downtown area.

[CCF]

saskatoon has quite a few too accually

broadway

http://olc.spsd.sk.ca/DE/k9mod/hstoon/photogallery2/images/theater1_JPG_jpg.jpg

riversdale

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y246/ggphotographs/49-saskatoon/DSCF1063.jpg

sutherland
http://www.sutherlandforestgrove.ca/images/centralave2.gif

8th street

sorry for the poor pictures they dont have many onn the web of them

None of those constitute as "Suburban downtowns." I think people in this thread are confused as to what a "suburban downtown" is. In any case there isn't a real life example in Saskatchewan.

[Cambridgite]

I think we are including places that are not suburban downtowns or hubs.
Neighbourhood strips like Locke Street or Westdale in Hamilton are not subdistricts like an Uptown business area, etc.
They are just complementary neighbourhood strips that work in synergy with the central downtown area.

That's what I was was thinking. :yes:

In the case of Hamilton, other traditional downtowns would include Dundas, Ancaster, Stoney Creek, and Burlington. Maybe even Waterdown? The ones Flar presented were more along the lines of former streetcar suburbs.

For major employment areas, some places that come to mind include downtown, the north end (declining industrial area, including Stelco), McMaster, and the QEW corridor in Burlington. There may be more, but I'm not familiar enough with the Hamilton area to say so.

[flar]

Au contraire my friends: Locke St, Ottawa St. Concession St, Barton St. and Westdale Village all were full service shopping areas, with banks, services, groceries, clothing, hardware, etc. Westdale and Concession Still are. Ottawa and Locke have become specialized districts. Barton and Kenilworth are currently mostly dead. I never claimed major employment areas, just secondary downtowns, which they are/were. Areas synergistic/continuations of downtown would be Jamesville, Corktown, the Delta, etc. And Concession St. actually is an employment centre, with the Juravinski Cancer institute and Henderson Hospital. Westdale has McMaster (westdale is not downtown, Mike). Ancaster doesn't have a downtown. Waterdown has a few stores.

[flar]

^^Actually I think this is why downtown Hamilton is lacking, because everyone from different parts of the city has their own little area. Each of these places has their own BIA, summer festivals, etc.

[miketoronto]

A subdistrict downtown though or suburban downtown is more then your little shopping strip like Westdale.

I think we are talking about places that see massive commuter trips coming into the area each day, with thousands of workers, and the related retail services, and other services.

Westdale, Concession Street, etc are just neighbourhood strips. I don't think they are the reason for a declined downtown Hamilton, as these neighbourhood strips never offered the selection downtown Hamilton had. And these areas were busy when downtown Hamilton was also vibrant.
Downtown Hamilton is dead because of Limeridge. And Concession Street the last time I was there, did not look like to vibrant, and is also probably suffering from Limeridge.

Anyway back to subdistricts :) I don't think Hamilton or Saskatoon have huge subdistricts yet.

[flar]

^^OK, I'm not going to argue they are appropriate districts for this thread. I just listed them because Cambridgite listed Galt, Hespeler, Preston, etc. Westdale, Ottawa, and Concession, for example each have well over 100 shops and businesses, which is more than the downtowns of many small cities. They historically were more than neighbourhood strips, and as I pointed out, there is significant employment at Westdale and Concession.

Edit: at one time, each of these was suburban too. Concession is downtown on the Mountain, and Ottawa was downtown for East Hamilton.

[Cambridgite]

^^OK, I'm not going to argue they are appropriate districts for this thread. I just listed them because Cambridgite listed Galt, Hespeler, Preston, etc. Westdale, Ottawa, and Concession, for example each have well over 100 shops and businesses, which is more than the downtowns of many small cities. They historically were more than neighbourhood strips, and as I pointed out, there is significant employment at Westdale and Concession.

Edit: at one time, each of these was suburban too. Concession is downtown on the Mountain, and Ottawa was downtown for East Hamilton.

That's the difference. The places you listed were streetcar suburbs of Hamilton and would not exist without it. Galt, Preston, and Hespeler were never suburbs of anywhere. But through time, the suburban sprawl of Kitchener creeped it's way out and formed a conurbation with the growing towns in the new city of Cambridge. Today it is a decentralized metropolitan area. Admittedly though, some of Hamilton's streetcar suburbs probably have more of a critical mass to them than some of Cambridge's historic downtowns.

[tokie1]

Au contraire my friends: Locke St, Ottawa St. Concession St, Barton St. and Westdale Village all were full service shopping areas, with banks, services, groceries, clothing, hardware, etc. Westdale and Concession Still are. Ottawa and Locke have become specialized districts. Barton and Kenilworth are currently mostly dead. I never claimed major employment areas, just secondary downtowns, which they are/were. Areas synergistic/continuations of downtown would be Jamesville, Corktown, the Delta, etc. And Concession St. actually is an employment centre, with the Juravinski Cancer institute and Henderson Hospital. Westdale has McMaster (westdale is not downtown, Mike). Ancaster doesn't have a downtown. Waterdown has a few stores.

I would hardly call those secondary downtowns. At best they are neighbourhoods within the lower city, which is largely downtown Hamilton. "Suburban downtowns" would be places like Westdale/Burlington. Ancaster does have a downtown (relative to it's size, not very big) and that would be Wilson St.

[Cambridgite]

But also don't forgot major employment zones that aren't downtowns whatsoever. That's why I also picked McMaster and the QEW corridor in Burlington.

[flar]

I would hardly call those secondary downtowns. At best they are neighbourhoods within the lower city, which is largely downtown Hamilton. "Suburban downtowns" would be places like Westdale/Burlington. Ancaster does have a downtown (relative to it's size, not very big) and that would be Wilson St.

Downtown Hamilton is the whole lower city? :haha: You must live on the mountain. Wilson St. in Ancaster has a few houses converted to shops and a couple strip malls. It's not a downtown. Concession St. is however downtown on the mountain and Ottawa St. was downtown East Hamilton. It's not me saying this, read some Hamilton history.

[Rysdad]

Ottawa-Gatineau:
- Tunney's Pasture
- Confederation Heights/Carleton U.
- Kanata

did I miss any other significant concentrations of office space? NRC and the Blair Road corridor? Carling/Preston/Queensway/Rochester? Medical node along Smyth? South end of St. Laurent isn't a secondary downtown, it's just a suburban office park of lesser magnitude than Kanata. Same is true of the Hunt Club corridor around the Rideau River.

how about downtown gatineau its both a secondary downtown and a large employment centre

[jeremy_haak]

What Stats Canada considers to be the major employment clusters (http://www.statcan.ca/english/research/89-613-MIE/89-613-MIE2005007.pdf):

Quebec: CBD, Ste. Foy
Montreal: CBD, Airport-West, Montreal North, Laval, Montreal-East
Ottawa: CBD-Ottawa, CBD-Hull, Kanata, West-Hunt Club, Tunney's Pasture, Industrial South
Toronto: CBD, Airport-West, 427-Gardiner, Vaughn, Markham, Don Mills, 401-404, 401-Allen Rd
Winnipeg: CBD, Airport-West
Calgary: CBD, Calgary-North, Calgary-South
Edmonton: CBD, Edmonton-West, Edmonton-East
Vancouver: CBD, Delta, Richmond (Airport), Vancouver East, UBC

(maps start at pg. 31)

[Ayreonaut]

The Edmonton, and Calgary ones are fairly vague.

[jeremy_haak]

The Edmonton, and Calgary ones are fairly vague.

Yeah, in general the suburban clusters tend to be ridiculously large. It would be nice if there was a bit more distinction between, say, the CBD and Beltline in Calgary. You'd know better than me though; do the Calgary and Edmonton suburban areas have a noticeable cluster, or is it mostly distributed over a larger area like shown in the Statistics Canada maps? And if their is a cluster, is it sufficiently large to distinguish it from the surrounding area?

[204]

saskatoon has quite a few too accually



Are these secondary downtowns or neighbourhood shopping streets?

Because places like MTV (Montreal, Toronto, Vancouver) would have HUNDREDS of secondary downtowns.

Also Polo Park in Winnipeg would still be considered part of downtown in MTV, it's only a 10 minute drive from Portage and Main.

[miketoronto]

That report from Stats Canada is so depressing. We are letting the burbs take over, and it is causing higher car use. Sad sad sad stats. And Toronto's stats are some of the worst, with only 16% of metro jobs downtown. And people harp on me for saying we need more jobs downtown. 16% puts Toronto up there with some of the most decentralized American cities like Detroit, Philadelphia, LA, etc.

That report really shows how serious the decentralization problem is in Canada, and that we are going to have serious transit use decline and sprawl is we continue with this suburban employment cluster craze.

It is amazing that our cities are even reviving as places to live, considering almost all the jobs are being created in the suburbs and not downtown.

[caltrane74]

North York Centre BABY!!!!!!! (above ground)

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1318/562927602_e0fdd30b59_o.jpg

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1117/562905444_c9f03ff98b_o.jpg

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1286/562925810_3d67f914f3_o.jpg

North York Centre (below ground)

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/21/98346801_a1737f5fb0_b.jpg

North York Centre Subway Station

[CCF]

Are these secondary downtowns or neighbourhood shopping streets?

Because places like MTV (Montreal, Toronto, Vancouver) would have HUNDREDS of secondary downtowns.

Also Polo Park in Winnipeg would still be considered part of downtown in MTV, it's only a 10 minute drive from Portage and Main.

They are neighbouring shopping streets, all located within the city of Saskatoon.

Saskatchewan doesn't have any examples of suburban downtowns.

[Ayreonaut]

Yeah, in general the suburban clusters tend to be ridiculously large. It would be nice if there was a bit more distinction between, say, the CBD and Beltline in Calgary. You'd know better than me though; do the Calgary and Edmonton suburban areas have a noticeable cluster, or is it mostly distributed over a larger area like shown in the Statistics Canada maps? And if their is a cluster, is it sufficiently large to distinguish it from the surrounding area?

I guess you could say there's a few clusters (which is a stretch), but just saying Calgary-South and Calgary-North doesn't really tell what areas are referred to.

[jeremy_haak]

I guess you could say there's a few clusters (which is a stretch), but just saying Calgary-South and Calgary-North doesn't really tell what areas are referred to.

The report includes maps showing which census tracts are included in each cluster.

[Bassic Lab]

The report includes maps showing which census tracts are included in each cluster.

From that map the Calgary-North cluster includes the Airport and a number of industrial parks. The industrial parks have a mix of suburban office, light manufacturing and even some heavier manufacturing.

The Calgary-South cluster includes Foothills Industrial and some other industrial areas. Mostly manufacturing and a little suburban office to the south of the tract.

Nothing in either is what I would consider small enough or dense enough to be considered a suburban employment node. In the future I'd look to the University-Foothills Hospital area as a significant node, though primarily public sector. As the Macleod Trail corridor continues to grow it also could become one or more nodes, depending on how you'd divide it up.

[vanman]

That report from Stats Canada is so depressing. We are letting the burbs take over, and it is causing higher car use. Sad sad sad stats. And Toronto's stats are some of the worst, with only 16% of metro jobs downtown. And people harp on me for saying we need more jobs downtown. 16% puts Toronto up there with some of the most decentralized American cities like Detroit, Philadelphia, LA, etc.

That report really shows how serious the decentralization problem is in Canada, and that we are going to have serious transit use decline and sprawl is we continue with this suburban employment cluster craze.

It is amazing that our cities are even reviving as places to live, considering almost all the jobs are being created in the suburbs and not downtown.

As usual,your crying on deaf ears.

[vid]

As usual,your crying on deaf ears.

Do you mean "you're crying on deaf ears"? Because crying on deaf ears is something that can't really be owned. I honestly have no clue as to why you might use a possessive in that sentence.

Just because this is the internet doesn't mean we have to be lazy-ass typists!

[vanman]

I meant you're and I am a very lazy typist.

[Wooster]

From that map the Calgary-North cluster includes the Airport and a number of industrial parks. The industrial parks have a mix of suburban office, light manufacturing and even some heavier manufacturing.

The Calgary-South cluster includes Foothills Industrial and some other industrial areas. Mostly manufacturing and a little suburban office to the south of the tract.

Nothing in either is what I would consider small enough or dense enough to be considered a suburban employment node. In the future I'd look to the University-Foothills Hospital area as a significant node, though primarily public sector. As the Macleod Trail corridor continues to grow it also could become one or more nodes, depending on how you'd divide it up.

Look out for BIG plans for the future. ;)

[Aylmer]

http://www1.istockphoto.com/file_thumbview_approve/727039/2/istockphoto_727039_ottawa_skyline.jpg

Some lost place in Ottawa...

:)

[citizen j]

how about downtown gatineau its both a secondary downtown and a large employment centre

I was operating under the assumption that Ottawa's and Gatineau's twin CBDs were two parts of one central downtown. But if you split them in two, then yes, Gatineau centre-ville (Hull sector CBD) is another secondary hub on that list.

[Spocket]

Are these secondary downtowns or neighbourhood shopping streets?

Because places like MTV (Montreal, Toronto, Vancouver) would have HUNDREDS of secondary downtowns.

Also Polo Park in Winnipeg would still be considered part of downtown in MTV, it's only a 10 minute drive from Portage and Main.

I agree that Polo Park isn't really a secondary core but it's certainly not a part of downtown. That would be something like calling Metrotown in Van part of the CBD or maybe North York City Center in T.O. the same. Nobody who travels between the actual CBDs and the suburban retail and employment areas of these cities would consider them as one.