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DC83
Aug 7, 2008, 7:38 PM
^^ It's not the only thing, Mark... but it's a damn good start!

ryan_mcgreal
Aug 7, 2008, 7:47 PM
More on the child pedestrian injury study:

http://raisethehammer.org/blog/1082/

realcity
Aug 7, 2008, 7:54 PM
Why doesn't Hamilton have pedestrian crosswalks? Like in Toronto with overhead yellow/warning lights. Most of our 'push to walk' buttons seem to take at least a minute before a yellow light.

I'd like to -- see along with the two-way conversion -- at the same time some pedestrian crosswalks installed.

http://www.mto.gov.on.ca/graphics/handbook_drivers/2-24.jpg
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2321/2449115159_8cd96f9306.jpg

markbarbera
Aug 7, 2008, 7:59 PM
Realcity I've always wondered the same thing. Pedestrian crosswalks are definitely needed at several spots, like in front of the Hunter Street GO Centre at Hughson.

ryan_mcgreal
Aug 7, 2008, 8:05 PM
Unscientific or not, the polls always display Hamiltonians' reluctance to change.

To be pedantic, if they're unscientific they don't display Hamiltonians' reluctance to change. ;)

FairHamilton
Aug 7, 2008, 8:48 PM
BTW, freep this poll:

http://thespec.com/

Like these polls, or not (I don't like them either). 59% for 1 way right now.

If you haven't voted, get on the site and vote. Pass along to friends ask them to vote. Change perceptions, maintain momentum at every turn.

FairHamilton
Aug 7, 2008, 8:51 PM
like in front of the Hunter Street GO Centre at Hughson.

YES, YES, YES!!!!!

We should put pedestrian crosswalks where pedestrians cross the road??? Definitely there needs to be one in front of the GO Centre.

Oddly enough, there's not one on Front Street outside of Union Station in Toronto either......

SteelTown
Aug 7, 2008, 8:54 PM
Why doesn't Hamilton have pedestrian crosswalks? Like in Toronto with overhead yellow/warning lights. Most of our 'push to walk' buttons seem to take at least a minute before a yellow light.

I'd like to -- see along with the two-way conversion -- at the same time some pedestrian crosswalks installed.

http://www.mto.gov.on.ca/graphics/handbook_drivers/2-24.jpg

Used to have a few of these on the Mountain, I remember one at Garth and Sanatorium. But all of them have been replaced with stop lights, I guess that's a policy.

raisethehammer
Aug 7, 2008, 9:30 PM
Hamilton has several crosswalks with no lights or stop signs.
A resident in our neighbourhood is fighting to have a light installed at Lamareaux and Dundurn. There is a crosswalk painted on the road, but as their 7 year old daughter found out, nobody stops for it.

Millstone
Aug 7, 2008, 11:03 PM
Why doesn't Hamilton have pedestrian crosswalks? Because Hamilton's pedestrians don't care about crosswalks or signals.

flar
Aug 8, 2008, 3:06 AM
The Spec polls are unscientific in that they do not represent a random sample, but in many cases they probably do generally reflect the sentiments of Hamiltonians. It's simply a case of the numbers themselves being untrustworthy. The polls are not entirely meaningless.

drpgq
Aug 8, 2008, 4:27 AM
Another thing I'd like to see is the injuries on those accidents on 1-way vs. 2-way.
Much higher rate of huge injury and death on one-ways is almost certain with the high speeds.

Is there likely to be that much difference? I always thought the most likely cause of death is someone turning left on a two way and getting T boned.

Personally, I think if we really wanted to reduce driving deaths, we would force passengers to always ride in the back if possible.

ryan_mcgreal
Aug 8, 2008, 6:00 AM
The Spec polls are unscientific in that they do not represent a random sample

It's not only that they're non-random, but also that they're non-representative. The results are limited to a) Spec readers b) who read on-line, c) are willing to vote in online polls, and d) care enough about one-way/two-way conversion to vote on this particular issue. The sample that passes these filters is so biased that the results are completely worthless as an indication of what Hamiltonians as a whole believe.

In fact, they're worse than worthless because they present an image of Hamiltonians to Hamiltonians that is distorted and misleading. To the extent that people are subject to bandwagon effect cognitive bias, the poll results can actually prejudice them in favour of the leading selection.

SteelTown
Aug 8, 2008, 11:05 AM
City shifts into drive on 2-way streets

August 08, 2008
Nicole Macintyre
The Hamilton Spectator

The city is moving ahead with its original plan to convert several more downtown streets from one-way to two-way.

With council's sign-off, city staff will also review the conversions already done on the south legs of James and John streets to see if they can improve traffic flow.

The two arteries are a regular source of frustration for Mountain residents, who view the conversions as "failures," said Councillor Scott Duvall.

But downtown Councillor Bob Bratina urged his colleagues not to let issues with the two streets hold up an overall transportation plan he believes will help revive the downtown.

"I think we've wasted a lot of time getting to this point."

He noted Main Street, Hamilton's most prized one-way street with its string of green lights, will remain unchanged.

The city's downtown master plan was stalled last month when a group of councillors raised concerns about the necessity and expense of converting several downtown streets.

The plan calls for the conversion of York Boulevard and Wilson Street, Park and MacNab streets and King William, Rebecca and Hess streets. City staff believe the changes will help make the core more pedestrian friendly.

Plans for several downtown projects, including the new farmers' market and library, were put on hold until council reaffirmed the plan originally approved in 2001.

Councillor Terry Whitehead said he's still skeptical the changes will lead to economic spinoffs but agreed to endorse the plan.

"I'm going to support it cautiously," Whitehead said.

Councillors Chad Collins and David Mitchell remained in opposition to it.

"I honestly believe the investment could be better spent elsewhere," said Collins.

The conversions will mainly take place as part of larger construction project. In isolation, the seven conversions will cost roughly $1 million.

Councillors will still have an opportunity to decide how quickly the conversions occur each year during capital budget deliberations.

BrianE
Aug 8, 2008, 1:05 PM
Thanks for the response, but I was really looking for something beyond a rehash of the staff report. I had already read that some time ago.

My main concern is that the the principles of modern urban planning are being misinterpreted (or worse, misrepresented). The main school of thought among modern urban planners is that the success of an urban environment can be improved upon by focusing on and improving the pedestrian experience, i.e making the urban centres less car-centric. There seems to be a false assumption that one-way traffic and an improved pedestrian experience are mutually exclusive. Some are even making a (potentially false) logical leap that two-way conversion is the only way to achieve a more pedestrian friendly urban environment. Take a look at Upper James south of Mohawk, or York Boulevard west of Queen Street. Neither of these two-way roads can even remotely be considered pedestrian friendly.

IMO, the two-way debate is a bit misguided. King and Main can be two-way or one-way and it will make absolutely no difference if pedestrian enhancements are not being addressed. The transportation plan thus far does address this to a certain degree, which is why I support it. I really could care less if the downtown roads are one-way or two-way. Just make sure the lanes are narrowed, speed limits are lowered, pedestrian walkways are widened, and public transit is improved. This is what will have the real positive impact on the downtown core.

Good Post! Mirrors my thoughts on this subject exactly. So instead of posting my own thoughts, I'll just quote you and pretend that I said it! ;)

adam
Aug 8, 2008, 2:08 PM
Two way is better for motorists trying to get to their destinations. Unfortunately, our downtown is short on destinations right now. Hope that will change eventually!

SteelTown
Aug 8, 2008, 2:11 PM
Anyone notice that Whitehead voted yes on two-way conversion?

FairHamilton
Aug 8, 2008, 2:28 PM
It's not only that they're non-random, but also that they're non-representative. The results are limited to a) Spec readers b) who read on-line, c) are willing to vote in online polls, and d) care enough about one-way/two-way conversion to vote on this particular issue. The sample that passes these filters is so biased that the results are completely worthless as an indication of what Hamiltonians as a whole believe.

In fact, they're worse than worthless because they present an image of Hamiltonians to Hamiltonians that is distorted and misleading. To the extent that people are subject to bandwagon effect cognitive bias, the poll results can actually prejudice them in favour of the leading selection.

Totally agree, that's why I put no faith in online polls.

Unfortunately, many others who are perhaps not as well informed do put faith in these polls. That makes it all the more important to vote so that your opinion has the chance to influence other's opinions.

Right now 2 way is just shy of 47%. Tell your friends and families to vote!!!

block43
Aug 8, 2008, 2:37 PM
I was just hit by a car on one of the one ways proposed to be two way on my walk to work today. The driver didn't look the otherway and turned right into me.

FairHamilton
Aug 8, 2008, 3:20 PM
I was just hit by a car on one of the one ways proposed to be two way on my walk to work today. The driver didn't look the otherway and turned right into me.

Hopefully, not seriously?

realcity
Aug 8, 2008, 3:25 PM
holy crap! I hope you're okay Block.

Go to one of those ambulance chasers and sue his ass. Ross & McBride, Lamond, or anyone.

I say that because it's almost impossible to be criminally responsible for anyone kind of personal injury unless the driver was drunk. I believe civil action is the only way to get drivers to care about others when behind the wheel. Not just - loss wages, - cost of care, and bullcrap like that that adds up to few thousand bucks, we need serious punitave damages awarded to people like you hit by idiot drivers. Hurt irresponsibility where it really hurts them -- their wallets.

Mary Louise
Aug 8, 2008, 3:30 PM
Jeez, Block. You OK?:(

DC83
Aug 8, 2008, 3:48 PM
I was just hit by a car on one of the one ways proposed to be two way on my walk to work today. The driver didn't look the otherway and turned right into me.

Yikes! I really hope you're ok.

This happens way too often downtown, and usually involves cabs. They are the worst drivers in this city.

block43
Aug 8, 2008, 3:51 PM
Thanks everyone. I'm okay I pushed myself away off of his hood. Can't wait for some of these two way conversions so drivers actually look the other way.

FairHamilton
Aug 11, 2008, 1:40 PM
Coleen Gleeson's Letter to the Editor in today's Spec.

Re: 'City shifts into drive on 2-way streets' (Aug. 8)

It looks as though the geniuses at city hall are going to go ahead with more two-way street conversions in spite of the pollution from stalled traffic, the danger of trying to cross in two-way traffic and bus drivers whom I have polled who hate the change to two-way.

It is interesting to note that in the same article it is stated, "With council's sign-off, city staff will also review the conversions already done on the south legs of James and John streets to see if they can improve traffic flow."

What a novel idea.

I have walked James Street from Bayfront Park to the farmers' market and passed the same bus three times -- and I need a knee replacement.

I also walk past all those attractive boarded up storefronts, the Tivoli site and our glorious Lister Block -- all great testimonies to the improvements that the two-way conversions have wrought.

Perhaps, someone should point out to Coleen that "all those attractive boarded up storefronts, the Tivoli site and our glorius Lister Block" occured during the period when the road was one-way????

Geez, some people...............

raisethehammer
Aug 11, 2008, 1:47 PM
I love the statement "ALL those attractive boarded-up storefronts".
She needs to walk from St. Joes to LIUNA Station and count the total number of storefronts and then count the total number that are boarded up. She'll find that 'all' those storefronts are hardly any.

DC83
Aug 11, 2008, 2:46 PM
I love how she thinks stalled cars pollute?
Last time I checked, stalled cars are off... no exhaust, no pollution.
Perhaps Ms Gleeson should learn to use her manual vehicle before getting on streets with lights & stop signs, then she wouldn't be stalling.

But I bet she doesn't give an F about the pollution from her stalled veh when she has to stop-n-go... and stop and go and stop and go... while waiting for her XLRG Dbl Dbl from Tims!?

I wish they would attach their emails to their rants... some ppl are just stupid. Ms Gleeson takes the cake!

adam
Aug 11, 2008, 3:14 PM
John South leading up to Main East sticks out in my head as far as boarded up storefronts go.. but since the 2 way conversion, we've seen London Tap House, Shawarma Hut, Bubble Tea place all open up in a previously dead area.
Someone should also point out to Colleen that the Lister Block has been stalled because of many other forces at play between LIUNA and the city. And the Tivoli is going to be redone very soon.. things take some time in a city that is just building its momentum.. not everything is done as quickly as a TV show!

flar
Aug 11, 2008, 3:17 PM
That letter to the editor is pure bunkum. I seriously doubt the writer actually walked James North, easily the most vibrant street in the city any day of the week. There's no way she passed the same bus three times and there's no way that empty storefronts were more noticeable than sidewalk cafes.

FairHamilton
Aug 11, 2008, 3:43 PM
That letter to the editor is pure bunkum. I seriously doubt the writer actually walked James North, easily the most vibrant street in the city any day of the week. There's no way she passed the same bus three times and there's no way that empty storefronts were more noticeable than sidewalk cafes.

Agreed, on all points. If she passed the same bus 3 times, something else was afoot along James North. And since she was walking the conversion to 2-way made her walk more enjoyable then if the street were still one-way ;-).

When I lived in Toronto, I used to wait for my 5:10pm 144 TTC bus and had a little game to pass the time and get some exercise. I'd wait for the bus to come to the stop at Adelaide and Peter Street, let it leave the stop and start walking along the one-way street of Adelaide towards Yonge.

I would pass the bus, have time to stop at Winners to look at some new shirts, then catch that very same bus at Yonge.

Adelaide is a one-way street so that must mean one-way streets don't work for moving traffic.............. lol, for my very scientific study and observations.

DC83
Aug 11, 2008, 4:25 PM
lol, for my very scientific study and observations.

Probably about as 'scientific' as Ms Gleeson's 'poll'! hahaha

Someone should really write a rebuttle (if they wld even print one) re: what Adam said about how the two-way conversion gave her the idea to walk the street rather than drive it.
Doesn't that mean the conversion worked? Wasn't the whole point of it to get ppl out of their cars?
Well Thanks Colleen for proving that it has worked.

ps: That bubble tea place's sign is up, it's called Green House Bubble Tea & Asian Cuisine.

Jon Dalton
Aug 11, 2008, 5:03 PM
I also walk past all those attractive boarded up storefronts, the Tivoli site and our glorious Lister Block -- all great testimonies to the improvements that the two-way conversions have wrought.

Notice these are all across from Jackson Square?

raisethehammer
Aug 11, 2008, 5:24 PM
she focuses on one of the only areas that are boarded up. Heck, I see boarded up buildings on Yonge in Toronto.
I challenge her to count every single storefront on James St and then write a letter about 'all' the boarded up storefronts.
Idiot.

highwater
Aug 11, 2008, 5:29 PM
And since she didn't count all the boarded up store fronts BEFORE conversion, her little survey is useless anyway.

I can't write a rebuttal, they've already printed a little rant of mine on the subject. But someone should.

LikeHamilton
Aug 11, 2008, 5:51 PM
Someone with some time and looking for a little exercise should once and for all take a walk up James from Liuna to St. Joe’s and count the number of businesses/buildings and the number that are vacant/boarded up. I bet the percentage will be under 5%. Most will be in the block of the Lister and the Tivoli.

FairHamilton
Aug 11, 2008, 5:51 PM
And since she didn't count all the boarded up store fronts BEFORE conversion, her little survey is useless anyway.

I can't write a rebuttal, they've already printed a little rant of mine on the subject. But someone should.

I'm out as well, since they put 4 of mine in since I've moved to Hamilton at the end of April. Two of those letters have been slamming a one-way supporters letter, so I'm saving my next for a different topic.

Who's up? I'll write it if someone wants to approve and submit ;-).

SteelTown
Aug 11, 2008, 5:57 PM
Write it and I'll submit it haha

DC83
Aug 11, 2008, 6:14 PM
Someone with some time and looking for a little exercise should once and for all take a walk up James from Liuna to St. Joe’s and count the number of businesses/buildings and the number that are vacant/boarded up. I bet the percentage will be under 5%. Most will be in the block of the Lister and the Tivoli.

I would, but I've had a knee replacement! HAHAHA jokes!

SteelTown
Aug 11, 2008, 6:55 PM
Now that two-way conversion has been approved here's the timeline for the conversions...

Park/MacNab --> 2008
York/Wilson --> 2009
Hughson --> 2009
Hess --> 2009
Caroline --> 2009
King St W --> 2010 -- Pending Rapid Transit study outcome
King William --> 2010
Rebecca --> 2010

DC83
Aug 11, 2008, 7:04 PM
Park & McNab by the end of the year???
Maybe it's easier b/c their primarily residential?

matt602
Aug 11, 2008, 7:06 PM
Looks good to me.

raisethehammer
Aug 11, 2008, 7:47 PM
I can't see them doing anything in 2008. It takes them forever to do stuff like this.
How far east does york/wilson get converted? It starts at Bay right?

SteelTown
Aug 11, 2008, 7:58 PM
I think it will go to Wellington (Wilson), but I'm not too sure.

For these timeline, add 365 days on top of it just to be safe haha.

markbarbera
Aug 11, 2008, 8:05 PM
York will be converted from Bay to James, Wilson from James to Wellington.

raisethehammer
Aug 11, 2008, 8:06 PM
York will be converted from Bay to James, Wilson from James to Wellington.

wow...friggin sweet.

I don't get the Hess conversion. They are going two-way north of York instead of north of King. What the heck???

markbarbera
Aug 11, 2008, 9:15 PM
wow...friggin sweet.

I don't get the Hess conversion. They are going two-way north of York instead of north of King. What the heck???

That way Hess will be just as conveniently laid out as Locke :shrug:
I thnk this is the city's way of ensuring these roads remain secondary and do not become primary routes.

DC83
Aug 12, 2008, 11:46 AM
wow...friggin sweet.

I don't get the Hess conversion. They are going two-way north of York instead of north of King. What the heck???

I'm confused with Hess as well. Are they planning on widening the street in the Village? b/c as it stands right now it's only 1 lane, no?

raisethehammer
Aug 12, 2008, 11:55 AM
no, nothing will change in the village. It's only 1 lane.
But north of King they should go two way, instead they're leaving it one-way until north of York. stupid.

DC83
Aug 12, 2008, 12:35 PM
^^ Well then what part r they converting? Just between King & York? B/c from Main to the Escarpment is already two-way?
Why not all the way to Barton? Two-way will be nice down there for the new stadium ;)

I wish they would do Queen! I HATE crossing that street especially at Charlton.

raisethehammer
Aug 12, 2008, 1:23 PM
hess is only being converted north of York. The piece between King and York will be left as one-way. don't ask me why.

SteelTown
Aug 12, 2008, 1:28 PM
They probably have a long-term vision to permanently close Hess from King to Main for cars.

raisethehammer
Aug 12, 2008, 1:37 PM
let's hope this is the last time I have to write this - Hess between KING and YORK is being left one-way. Not north of YORK, not south of KING. Between KING and YORK.

SteelTown
Aug 12, 2008, 1:41 PM
I know but I was writing why perhaps they are leaving Hess one way from King to York, perhaps closing that section of Hess as long-term planning.

raisethehammer
Aug 12, 2008, 1:44 PM
I doubt it. It's all residential with homes and high rise apartment access. I think it would make sense for two-way from King to York to give that extra option for movement N/S through the western downtown. Also, it would make cycling easier.

LikeHamilton
Aug 12, 2008, 3:43 PM
Leaving or making and few blocks of street, one-way is an inexpensive way of traffic calming. This is done on long streets to discourage a residential street from becoming a main street. There are some streets in the east end that have one or two block one-way to keep traffic out, slow it down or direct it in the same direction to clear an area out.

raisethehammer
Aug 12, 2008, 3:47 PM
Hess St between King and York is more of a 'through' street being one-way with both lanes heading north instead of one lane each way. The southbound traffic would have to turn onto King since Hess Village is one-way with no option for 2.
This is just poor planning IMO.

adam
Aug 12, 2008, 4:26 PM
Durand neighbourhood assoc. would oppose making Hess St at Hess Village 2 way..

raisethehammer
Aug 12, 2008, 4:54 PM
everyone would oppose that...it's 1 lane.

adam
Aug 12, 2008, 5:49 PM
I read your previous comment as 1 way through Hess Village being poor planning, I guess what you meant is having to turn onto Main being poor planning?

coalminecanary
Aug 12, 2008, 6:05 PM
no-poor planning leaving hess one way between king and york

raisethehammer
Aug 12, 2008, 7:24 PM
Oh my! This is the worst thread I've ever participated in. You guys are going to drive me bonkers! lol.

Everyone please pull out a map and find HESS STREET BETWEEN KING AND YORK. That's what we're talking about here.
Not Durand, not Hess Village, not north of York, not south of Main, not turning onto Main etc...... haha.
I always knew that people posted stuff without actually reading prior comments. Now I know!

markbarbera
Aug 12, 2008, 7:48 PM
To clarify for everyone, after two-way conversion, Hess Steet, north to south, will look like this:

Stuart to Barton: Will remain two-way
Barton to York: Converted to two way traffic
York to Jackson: Will remain one-way northbound
Jackson to base of Escarpment: Will remain two-way

Planning for Hess Street conversion (Between Barton and York) is scheduled to start summer 2009, construction is targeted to start summer 2010, target completion summer 2011.

Everyone on the same page now?

raisethehammer
Aug 12, 2008, 8:03 PM
I'm confused....

markbarbera
Aug 12, 2008, 8:13 PM
Here is a summary of the overall two-way conversion plan:

York Blvd (Bay to James) and Wilson Street (James to Wellington)
Planning phase: Summer 2008 - Summer 2009
Construction Phase: Summer 2009 - Summer 2011

Park Street (Barton to York) and Macnab Street (Guise to Cannon)
Planning Phase: Summer 2008 - Summer 2009
Construction Phase: Summer 2009 - Summer 2010

Hughson Street (Barton to Wilson) and Hess Street (Barton to York)
Planning Phase: Summer 2009 - Summer 2010
Constructio Phase: Summer 2010 - Summer 2011

King William (Mary to John) and Rebecca (Wellington to John)
Planning Phase: Summer 2010 - Summer 2011
Constructin Phase: Summer 2011 - Summer 2013

King Street (Wellington to Queen) - subject to Rapid Transit, Gore Park studies
Planning Phase: Spring 2010 - Spring 2011
Construction Phase: Spring 2011 - Spring 2013

markbarbera
Aug 12, 2008, 8:35 PM
I'm confused....

Have you tried Hare Krishna?

raisethehammer
Aug 12, 2008, 10:05 PM
Lol....I'm kidding as a jab at the rest of you guys and the rest of the discussion today.

DC83
Aug 12, 2008, 10:40 PM
I just have to say, I wish we could use <<THIS>> (http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=155748) as a rebuttle to that lady's letter to the ed in the Spec the other day!

flar
Aug 12, 2008, 11:49 PM
You know what's interesting about James North: it was closed on Saturday for the Mardi Gras Carnival, yet I still had no trouble whatsoever driving into Hamilton and finding a parking spot--for free--within one block of the festivities. Despite thousands of people being down there, I also had no trouble getting out. When I say no trouble, I mean not having to stop or slow down at all. I drove straight towards where I wanted to go and parked first try without even having to look. And this is at the same time as the world Kabaddi championships at Copps Coliseum, which also drew thousands.

I swear, our road system can absorb an awful lot. It is often pure hell in other towns when there is a parade or a road is closed, but not here. Two way should be no problem.

adam
Aug 13, 2008, 12:37 AM
I'm 2 years old so don't expect much from me :P

FairHamilton
Aug 13, 2008, 1:05 AM
You know what's interesting about James North: it was closed on Saturday for the Mardi Gras Carnival, yet I still had no trouble whatsoever driving into Hamilton and finding a parking spot--for free--within one block of the festivities. Despite thousands of people being down there, I also had no trouble getting out. When I say no trouble, I mean not having to stop or slow down at all. I drove straight towards where I wanted to go and parked first try without even having to look. And this is at the same time as the world Kabaddi championships at Copps Coliseum, which also drew thousands.

I swear, our road system can absorb an awful lot. It is often pure hell in other towns when there is a parade or a road is closed, but not here. Two way should be no problem.

Agreed, at 12 noon I came in from Toronto along York, and got stopped outside the Farmer's Market. I had to wait for a little bit, turn south on James and make a left on King William, and then go back down to Wilson.

Total delay was at most 3 or 4 minutes at the very most, for closed street street. I've waited longer for a single lane closure in Toronto.

raisethehammer
Aug 13, 2008, 3:13 AM
again, proof that we have completely overbuilt our road infrastructure.

MatchstickMan
Aug 13, 2008, 3:56 AM
One way is always the wrong way.

SteelTown
Aug 14, 2008, 12:27 AM
I'm out as well, since they put 4 of mine in since I've moved to Hamilton at the end of April. Two of those letters have been slamming a one-way supporters letter, so I'm saving my next for a different topic.

Who's up? I'll write it if someone wants to approve and submit ;-).

Your batting average will be impressive tomorrow ;)

raisethehammer
Aug 15, 2008, 1:45 PM
honestly, can we please just separate the lower city from the rest of this town and get it over with? I can't take the ignorance, selfishness and lies put forth by these hicks. A one-minute delay has them up in arms. I wish it was a 5 minute delay. Use all your bloody highways to bomb around town, idiots. Not our downtown commercial/residential streets.


Mountain drivers slowed by two-way downtown streets
By Kevin Werner
News
Aug 15, 2008

ver three years of two-way traffic along James Street South and John Street South, Mountain drivers are still bogged down in traffic congestion, says two Mountain councillors.

"Residents are frustrated going along James Street South and John Street to the Mountain during peak periods," said Ward 7 councillor Scott Duvall. "The (two-way conversion) is a failure."

Mr. Duvall said later residents are "confused" by the traffic patterns along James and John streets, especially when both roads intersect with St. Joseph's Drive around the St. Joseph's Heathcare facility.

James Street South merges into James Mountain Road, while John Street South becomes Arkledun Avenue then the Jolley Cut.

He said during peak rush hour periods in the morning and late afternoon, the traffic is horrendous.

Mr. Duvall, along with Ward 8 councillor Terry Whitehead urged city staff in a motion, to review the problems in the area and to implement any mitigating solutions. Councillors approved the motion.

"Mountain residents are not happy," added Mr. Whitehead. "If you create a problem, you should fix it."

John and James streets were the first roadways to be converted from one-way to two-way traffic in 2005. Also converted were St. Joseph's Drive and Charlton Avenue.

The two-way downtown conversions are part of the city's 2001 downtown transportation masterplan. Other roads identified for two-way conversion include York Boulevard, Hess Street, MacNab, Hughson, King William and Caroline streets.

City staff argued the conversions were to improve transportation and bicycle traffic.

Public Works General Manager Scott Stewart said the two-way conversion of the streets were operating the way transit staff predicted.

"There are delays," he said, noting problems near the hospital. City staff did install a left turning lane on James Street near the hospital to help alleviate congestion problems.

City staff predicted there would be "some" congestion in the northbound lanes of John Street at Hunter and James Street at Herkimer. They also said there would be "improved" traffic circulation around St. Joseph's Healthcare.

He said it could take about three months to complete the review. He didn't know how much it will cost to implement any of the mitigating options.

"I don't think there are major changes needed," he said. "There are no silver bullets to conversion."

Stoney Creek councillor Brad Clark said the two-way conversion is doing exactly what staff expected.

"It there more congestion? Yes. We are not going to change a whole lot. Maybe talking about a turning lane. I'm not exactly sure why we are going down their way. It is not going to change."

Mr. Duvall disagreed. He said the staff review should include more left-turn lanes.

"This has been a very unfortunate plan that did not work out," he said.

astroblaster
Aug 15, 2008, 2:13 PM
honestly, can we please just separate the lower city from the rest of this town and get it over with? I can't take the ignorance, selfishness and lies put forth by these hicks. A one-minute delay has them up in arms. I wish it was a 5 minute delay. Use all your bloody highways to bomb around town, idiots. Not our downtown commercial/residential streets.


not all mountain residents oppose the 2 way street initiatives. I live up on the mountain and I think 2 way is the way to go.

raisethehammer
Aug 15, 2008, 2:28 PM
then email your bloody councillors!! lol.

Millstone
Aug 15, 2008, 2:30 PM
honestly, can we please just separate the lower city from the rest of this town and get it over with? I can't take the ignorance,


Pot, kettle, black.

adam
Aug 15, 2008, 2:33 PM
The traffic in Hamilton is nothing compared to other urban centres. I don't know what they're complaining about. Unfortunately the word "hick" as mentioned by raisethehammer does come to mind in this situation.

DC83
Aug 15, 2008, 3:18 PM
I don't know what they're complaining about.

Change. They're complaining for no other reason than change. I would love to see the age groups of those complaining vs those in support.

I have suburban friends, and ALL of them love the new two-way streets. They think it's so much easier to get around than before. They are my age tho, and we're a lot more receptive to change than say Joe Shmoe @ 60 years old who has been driving one-way for the last 40+ years.

astroblaster
Aug 15, 2008, 3:29 PM
then email your bloody councillors!! lol.

i have (terry whitehead). now can you please stop calling me a hick? ;)

raisethehammer
Aug 15, 2008, 3:37 PM
i have (terry whitehead). now can you please stop calling me a hick? ;)

sure. Lol.
Your representatives are hicks though.
DC is probably right...it's old people who hate change and don't care about the future since they're almost gone.

FairHamilton
Aug 15, 2008, 3:37 PM
Your batting average will be impressive tomorrow ;)

Yesh!!!! But I must have missed it. lol :)

FairHamilton
Aug 15, 2008, 3:50 PM
DC theory about the age of the average 1 way supporter sheds more light on this statement.

Mr. Duvall said later residents are "confused" by the traffic patterns along James and John streets

SteelTown
Aug 15, 2008, 4:07 PM
Yesh!!!! But I must have missed it. lol :)

HAHA I can't believe you missed it, it's your article word by word I didn't change a thing yet it's got my name on it. HAHA people were impressed by MY article to the letter to editor yesterday. HEHEHE

DC83
Aug 15, 2008, 4:12 PM
DC theory about the age of the average 1 way supporter sheds more light on this statement.

Mr. Duvall said later residents are "confused" by the traffic patterns along James and John streets


HAHAHA OMG !! Thanks that's hillarious!

adam
Aug 15, 2008, 4:12 PM
From the article: Mr. Duvall said later residents are "confused" by the traffic patterns along James and John streets,

Can you imagine how confused they'll be if we get light rail or if the Pan Am games are partly hosted here? Lets put everything on hold so they aren't so "confused" :worship:

DC83
Aug 15, 2008, 4:18 PM
From the article: Mr. Duvall said later residents are "confused" by the traffic patterns along James and John streets,

Can you imagine how confused they'll be if we get light rail or if the Pan Am games are partly hosted here? Lets put everything on hold so they aren't so "confused" :worship:

They most likely wont be around by then... so the city will finally be able to move forward and not be held back by change-a-phobes? hahaha

edit: they're called "TROPOPHOBES" (Thanks Wiki)

highwater
Aug 15, 2008, 4:35 PM
Unfortunately, older people tend to vote in higher numbers which is maybe why they have the ear of their councillors. So make sure all your buddies get to the polls at the next election.

coalminecanary
Aug 15, 2008, 4:44 PM
OH MAN.. it's a good old fashioned coot-off, dag-nabbit!
http://www.thebscorner.com/archives/JScootoff_010606_wmv.htm

DC83
Aug 15, 2008, 4:51 PM
^^ Oh I know it's a huge problem. I'm very political and vote in every election, but that's not the case for most youth... however, that's a completely different subject in itself! :s

But regarldess, Gen X & Y are about to take over... so watch out Hamilton!

astroblaster
Aug 15, 2008, 5:07 PM
for the record, im 24.

i try really hard to get all my friends interested and out there voting.

raisethehammer
Aug 15, 2008, 5:24 PM
From the article: Mr. Duvall said later residents are "confused" by the traffic patterns along James and John streets,

Can you imagine how confused they'll be if we get light rail or if the Pan Am games are partly hosted here? Lets put everything on hold so they aren't so "confused" :worship:

may I suggest that the Ontario government take a serious look at more frequent testing of drivers?
If someone is 'confused' because a street is laid out with 2 lanes southbound, a yellow middle line, and 2 lanes northbound, they really need to have their license taken away permanently.

highwater
Aug 15, 2008, 5:26 PM
OH MAN.. it's a good old fashioned coot-off, dag-nabbit!
http://www.thebscorner.com/archives/JScootoff_010606_wmv.htm

Byrd shoulda got another half mark for that white suit. Full mark if he had matching shoes.

DC83
Aug 15, 2008, 5:47 PM
may I suggest that the Ontario government take a serious look at more frequent testing of drivers?

Don't even get me started on that!

And you're right, Astro... it's tough to get youth to vote. For some reason they think they're 'too busy' for it. When it reality, they're just too lazy!

The gov't needs to make reforms, which we've been shouting for for years now, but again... change is scary! FIXED election dates, PROPER proportional representation (the suggested format Dalton introduced last election was rediculous) and perhaps some form of advertising or whatever to get youth interested.

When I watch American TV, MTV & BET are CRAZY for elections. You can't go an hour without hearing about it (during election years anyway). So lets do this in Canada! Make voting 'fun' and not just a duty!

Anyway, back to Two-Way Conversions... (sorry)

astroblaster
Aug 15, 2008, 5:58 PM
we should have fixed voting dates, get the day off, and have a voting party

SteelTown
Aug 15, 2008, 6:04 PM
We have fixed voting days for provincial and municipal elections. Same with the federal election expect it's not law, just a day a governing party can choose to have or not.

coalminecanary
Aug 15, 2008, 6:38 PM
online voting is gonna be the number one way to improve the young voter turnout. but no one currently part of the system really wants that because then change will actually happen -and for most of them it would mean changing them OUT

astroblaster
Aug 15, 2008, 7:00 PM
online voting is gonna be the number one way to improve the young voter turnout. but no one currently part of the system really wants that because then change will actually happen -and for most of them it would mean changing them OUT

i don't trust online voting. i think it could be done, but i don't trust our government to properly fund/research it and actually implement a secure and tamper-proof (as much as possible) system.

block43
Aug 15, 2008, 7:20 PM
Why are we talking about online voting in this thread? What does it have to do with one way streets?

raisethehammer
Aug 15, 2008, 8:55 PM
I vote for two-way streets!!!