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waterloowarrior
Mar 1, 2008, 5:05 PM
new plan for middle area

http://www.richcraft.com/pdg/images/sitemap.jpg

old master plan, not sure how much is in effect still

http://wwuploads.googlepages.com/placedesgouv.jpg


http://wwuploads.googlepages.com/placeDGdescrip.jpg



website
http://www.richcraft.com/pdg


1000 Place des Gouverneurs...

Place Des Gouverneurs continues to flourish with the unveiling of 1000 Place Des Gouverneurs Ottawa’s first major planned condo community continues to grow with the unveiling of 1000 Place Des Gouverneurs. The new 14-storey building will feature 124 units from 513 sq.ft. to 1298 sq.ft.

All the units will have balconies and some of the units will have outdoor living spaces up to 600 sq.ft.

The 14th floor will have a full fitness facility as well as an outdoor terrace for residents to enjoy, with sitting and BBQ areas.
Place Des Gouverneurs truly reflects the new outlook of Smart Growth & New Urbanism.







http://www.richcraft.com/pdg/images/images.jpg

m0nkyman
Mar 1, 2008, 5:50 PM
Ooof. That's not pretty.
Compare and contrast with Edmonton's Century Park. (http://www.centurypark.ca/)

Cre47
Mar 1, 2008, 7:44 PM
How many buildings are completed there. I know that as of June 2007, there was at least three of the buildings completed.

c_speed3108
Mar 1, 2008, 8:23 PM
How many buildings are completed there. I know that as of June 2007, there was at least three of the buildings completed.

There were 3. Two buildings were built simultaneously while the third followed at a slight time stagger. The third building appeared to have many vacant units...and still seems to have some. I am not sure if they went ahead and built it without a huge number of sales or something weird. Richcraft was hawking units on grapevine for a while.

The building in the paper this morning will be the forth. It seems to be a very different design so perhaps Richcraft is changing their plans for the development which could be good. The plans look like a smaller, nicer version of those huge multi-building social development projects in NYC from the 60's with usually over a dozen similar looking buildings surrounded by trees and weird streets that break the usual Manhattan grid....

Jamaican-Phoenix
Mar 1, 2008, 9:36 PM
Ooof. That's not pretty.
Compare and contrast with Edmonton's Century Park. (http://www.centurypark.ca/)

Now why can't someone in Ottawa propose something like that?! :(

m0nkyman
Mar 1, 2008, 9:46 PM
Well, for one thing, Century Park is going to be at the end of an honest to goodness LRT line...

Of course, the Strathearn proposal (http://www.strathearnrejuvenation.ca/) which was just passed by Edmonton city council this week is even nicer... especially compared to the LeBreton redevelopment which would be it's corollary.

Sad when Edmonton is getting better projects than Ottawa. ;)

Kitchissippi
Mar 2, 2008, 4:01 AM
There were 3. Two buildings were built simultaneously while the third followed at a slight time stagger. The third building appeared to have many vacant units...and still seems to have some. I am not sure if they went ahead and built it without a huge number of sales or something weird.

Those three buildings share the same foundations and underground garage, and have to be under one condominium corporation. I know someone who lives there and they could not get incorporated until the third building was completed.

Some of those units were not bad value, with Cyrville station just a few steps from the front door. I find the buildings a little close to each other and the units that face into each other lack privacy. The ones looking out on to the Queensway are great, even the first floor is quite high off the ground.

Looks like they're doing a departure from the ersatz French Provincial architecture, but still boring. Too bad that site would have been fantastic for a few signature towers that make a design statement as you drive in from Montreal. Something like the Absolute condo towers (http://www.world-architects.com/portal/pics/_cache/images/39546_mad_p4.2.jpg) in Mississauga, perhaps?

movebyleap
Mar 2, 2008, 4:37 AM
Those buildings are soooo BORING! I have to go past them every morning and, believe me, 3 are MORE than enough! What are they thinking by trying to put 10 zillion identical strucures at various angles? VERY uninspired!

Ottawade
Mar 2, 2008, 5:09 AM
It looks kind of like some upscale housing projects. Also nothing on that master plan looks half as good as the other building in the ad with the galleria.

waterloowarrior
Mar 2, 2008, 5:32 AM
It looks kind of like some upscale housing projects. Also nothing on that master plan looks half as good as the other building in the ad with the galleria.

I wonder where 1000 Place des Gouverneurs will be on the site.... maybe near Ogilvie, since those buildings on the master plan look to be at a similar height.

c_speed3108
Mar 2, 2008, 2:32 PM
Those three buildings share the same foundations and underground garage, and have to be under one condominium corporation. I know someone who lives there and they could not get incorporated until the third building was completed.


Interesting....I had looked at that on the emaps app on the city web site. Originally they had some sort of weird property line touching the outer edge of the site and swing in around the first two buildings and excluding the third. It did have a condo corp #. Later it was modified to box in all three buildings instead of the L-like shape.


Some of those units were not bad value, with Cyrville station just a few steps from the front door. I find the buildings a little close to each other and the units that face into each other lack privacy. The ones looking out on to the Queensway are great, even the first floor is quite high off the ground.


They are pretty decent units. Decent square footage for the price. That is one thing I do like about Claridge as well.

It would have been nice if they could have included some other stuff around the project...perhaps fronting on to Cyrville Road or something. Maybe some retail or whatever. There is very little around there.

Deez
Mar 2, 2008, 4:57 PM
Of course, the Strathearn proposal (http://www.strathearnrejuvenation.ca/) which was just passed by Edmonton city council this week is even nicer... especially compared to the LeBreton redevelopment which would be it's corollary.


There's still hope for Lebreton depending on what developers propose for the remainder of the site. Current plans are just guidelines drawn up by the NCC.

Speaking of which...I wonder when the next phase of tendering will begin...

clynnog
Mar 2, 2008, 5:15 PM
Interesting....I had looked at that on the emaps app on the city web site. Originally they had some sort of weird property line touching the outer edge of the site and swing in around the first two buildings and excluding the third. It did have a condo corp #. Later it was modified to box in all three buildings instead of the L-like shape.



Is there a link for the emaps application for the public to view?...I couldn't find it on the City web site.

c_speed3108
Mar 2, 2008, 6:57 PM
Is there a link for the emaps application for the public to view?...I couldn't find it on the City web site.


Just click "maps" under "Popular Topics" on the front page of the City site, then click on "emap" on the side menu

http://apps104.ottawa.ca/emap/

Its cool..you can see all the old rights-of-ways, property boundaries, even what someones trash collection day is.

clynnog
Mar 2, 2008, 7:22 PM
Just click "maps" under "Popular Topics" on the front page of the City site, then click on "emap" on the side menu

http://apps104.ottawa.ca/emap/



Thanks for the link..unfortunately it wasn't what I was looking for....I've used your link in the past. What I was looking for was a website where you can see the status of various development applications, public comments, agency comments etc. I believe one poster said that the City was going to be having this soon(ish) online for everybody to see.

waterloowarrior
Mar 3, 2008, 9:59 PM
Thanks for the link..unfortunately it wasn't what I was looking for....I've used your link in the past. What I was looking for was a website where you can see the status of various development applications, public comments, agency comments etc. I believe one poster said that the City was going to be having this soon(ish) online for everybody to see.

http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showpost.php?p=3321266&postcount=218

Mille Sabords
Mar 4, 2008, 3:17 AM
Well, for one thing, Century Park is going to be at the end of an honest to goodness LRT line...

Sad when Edmonton is getting better projects than Ottawa. ;)

Meh. I wouldn't say Century Park is all that great. It's "density" in a suburban setting, look at the site plan. LRT station or not, it's still not an urbane development. It's dense suburbia.

Mille Sabords
Mar 4, 2008, 3:21 AM
I find the buildings a little close to each other and the units that face into each other lack privacy. The ones looking out on to the Queensway are great, even the first floor is quite high off the ground.

Looks like they're doing a departure from the ersatz French Provincial architecture, but still boring. Too bad that site would have been fantastic for a few signature towers that make a design statement as you drive in from Montreal. Something like the Absolute condo towers (http://www.world-architects.com/portal/pics/_cache/images/39546_mad_p4.2.jpg) in Mississauga, perhaps?

Personally, I really like the French Provincial architecture of the first three buildings. I'm sad to see that go. At least there was some building texture to look at. The new tower looks like a copy of Brigil's out in Orleans.

As for the buildings being too close together... I find them too far apart, and too far from the street. Those U-shaped courtyards they form are just an excuse to have more grass. Value for money, yes, but I wouldn't live there.

Ottawade
Mar 4, 2008, 1:54 PM
Sadly it's price, not aesthetics, that are currently driving my potential purchases and this spot is actually pretty nice. Given that you have St. Laurent and a bunch of grocery stores within walking distance and the transitway (did someone say train?) is right there its not a half bad area. I still prefer right in the heart of centertown, but I'd argue you are better off here than how the neighborhood on Lebreton Flats.

Jamaican-Phoenix
Mar 4, 2008, 4:16 PM
If price is such a big deal for so many people, why not apartments? There are tonnes of really nice apartments that can be found in all urban areas of Ottawa.

Unique and lively neighbourhoods just a few blocks away, transit is almost always nearby, big trees, real sidewalks, houses and apartments that don't all look the same, real wood-burning fireplaces, close to downtown, and many still have a fair amount of space for a decent price. What's not to love? ;) :P

Jamaican-Phoenix
Mar 4, 2008, 4:17 PM
but I'd argue you are better off here than how the neighborhood on Lebreton Flats.

I have a feeling that I'll be an old man by the time that "neighbourhood" is finished...

c_speed3108
Mar 4, 2008, 4:56 PM
I think houses fit the whole "American/Canadian Dream"

Also I think condo fees scare people away too.

Third is that single family homes have the benefit of not sharing walls with other people who may make noise at different times than you.

I can say it is funny. As someone who grew up in the "nothing to do", burbs many of my friends have purchased homes in these areas. I think single family homes (possible new) are peoples dreams. I have had many friends make VERY negaitve comments about the thoughts of raising children further into the city.

"Yes you can send your kids to the school on Elgin street with the bars next door"

"Drug addicts"

"homeless/pan handles"

"noise"

"pollution"

"schools that don't rate as well"


etc.....

Mille Sabords
Mar 4, 2008, 5:34 PM
I think houses fit the whole "American/Canadian Dream"

Also I think condo fees scare people away too.

Third is that single family homes have the benefit of not sharing walls with other people who may make noise at different times than you.

I can say it is funny. As someone who grew up in the "nothing to do", burbs many of my friends have purchased homes in these areas. I think single family homes (possible new) are peoples dreams. I have had many friends make VERY negaitve comments about the thoughts of raising children further into the city.

"Yes you can send your kids to the school on Elgin street with the bars next door"

"Drug addicts"

"homeless/pan handles"

"noise"

"pollution"

"schools that don't rate as well"


etc.....


I've heard all those things too. When we had our first baby, some people were aghast that we'd be raising a child in a condo. But that's the norm pretty much around the world.

The whole thing for me is this: how much space do you really need indoors and for what? How much work do you really want to be obligated to do on your house and its grounds? Me, I prefer spending time with my kid instead of cutting grass. So the tradeoff is: if there's stuff enough around my place I can access quickly, then I don't need to pay for it myself. There's a park down the street, I don't need a back yard. There's a pool hall down the street, I don't need a pool table in my basement. (I actually prefer to GO OUT to play pool and be away from the house... so a smaller space kinda leads me that way anyway).

As for the druggies and the dangers of downtown... come on, we're not talking Detroit here. I realize that's what some people will say and I don't want to debate invisible debaters, but to think that downtown Ottawa is unsafe for kids sounds kinda paranoid...

I take my little 3-year-old to the Market for groceries all the time. She loves the crowds, the window displays, the horse-pulled carriages, the people playing guitar on the street, she gets a much bigger charge out of that than going to the mega-Loblaws on Rideau, which we sometimes have to do. I know for seeing it with my own eyes. It is more work for the parents but it's worth its weight in gold in terms of having a child that is aware, early on, about the world that surrounds her in all its aspects. I know one day she'll ask me why there's homeless people and why there's people who are high on the street - I've been rehearsing my answers and as a dad, I'd rather be the one answering those questions head-on. Mostly because, in the end, it's a tiny minority of people who are in such dire need and kids have to learn that from a young age, see with their eyes what that side of human reality looks like, and be less innocent about it as they grow up. But I've digressed here.

m0nkyman
Mar 4, 2008, 11:00 PM
Meh. I wouldn't say Century Park is all that great. It's "density" in a suburban setting, look at the site plan. LRT station or not, it's still not an urbane development. It's dense suburbia.

Yes. And it's located in deepest suburbia. It's appropriate for where it is, and is a different model than urban living, and it's a different model than SFD's in suburbia.

It won't appeal to either you or me, as we are both die hard urbanites, but it does appeal to a lot of people who don't want to live in the city and like the suburbs but do want this kind of density and access to transit.

Jamaican-Phoenix
Mar 4, 2008, 11:43 PM
I think houses fit the whole "American/Canadian Dream"

Also I think condo fees scare people away too.

Third is that single family homes have the benefit of not sharing walls with other people who may make noise at different times than you.

I can say it is funny. As someone who grew up in the "nothing to do", burbs many of my friends have purchased homes in these areas. I think single family homes (possible new) are peoples dreams. I have had many friends make VERY negaitve comments about the thoughts of raising children further into the city.

"Yes you can send your kids to the school on Elgin street with the bars next door"

"Drug addicts"

"homeless/pan handles"

"noise"

"pollution"

"schools that don't rate as well"


etc.....

Like they say, ignorance is bliss.

Many people who have negative things to say about downtown Ottawa either haven't been downtown, haven't been to other world cities, or are basing their opinion on a single incident that happened in another city.

They make it sound absolutely horrible, or you can put it like this:

"I'm sending my kids to Lisgar, which is one of the highest rated schools in the region and is near many upscale shops, sights and restaurants."

"Interesting people of all ages"

"people actually stopping to enjoy life"

"live music in the streets"

"a vibrant neighbourhood"


It all boils down to ignorance and perspective. ;)

c_speed3108
Mar 4, 2008, 11:49 PM
Like they say, ignorance is bliss.

Many people who have negative things to say about downtown Ottawa either haven't been downtown, haven't been to other world cities, or are basing their opinion on a single incident that happened in another city.

They make it sound absolutely horrible, or you can put it like this:

"I'm sending my kids to Lisgar, which is one of the highest rated schools in the region and is near many upscale shops, sights and restaurants."

"Interesting people of all ages"

"people actually stopping to enjoy life"

"live music in the streets"

"a vibrant neighbourhood"


It all boils down to ignorance and perspective. ;)

Love it you! You should work for a political party...I have the feeling you can spin anything!

That said, today the CBD office building I work in proposed keeping all washrooms locked 24x7 and giving everyone that works in it keys....:slob:


My personal feeling is that there is nothing wrong with suburbs as a concept. The homes and land are much cheaper/ sq foot. They cost the city much less in things like snow clearing then higher density areas since they just have to push it to the side instead of haul it way. It is no secret that prior to amalgamation many of the suburbs had lots of money with large reserve funds while the old City of Ottawa was carrying a huge debt. Cumberland's reserve fund paid for Petrie Island Beech. There are lots of people that like the lower density. What we need to focus on is how to build better suburbs with better integration of residential areas with business areas, fast transit to downtown, and sidewalks might be a nice to have.

There was an article in the Orleans paper that I have been meaning to post that talked about how to turn (Orleans specifically) into "the best suburb", I have not managed to find a copy online yet. I will try and scan it or something one day and post..

Ottawade
Mar 5, 2008, 2:02 AM
If price is such a big deal for so many people, why not apartments? There are tonnes of really nice apartments that can be found in all urban areas of Ottawa.

Unique and lively neighbourhoods just a few blocks away, transit is almost always nearby, big trees, real sidewalks, houses and apartments that don't all look the same, real wood-burning fireplaces, close to downtown, and many still have a fair amount of space for a decent price. What's not to love? ;) :P

This is actually exactly what I'm doing for the moment.

waterloowarrior
Mar 8, 2008, 3:14 PM
new website for PDG
(http://www.richcraft.com/pdg/)
Place Des Gouverneurs continues to flourish with the unveiling of 1000 Place Des Gouverneurs Ottawa’s first major planned condo community continues to grow with the unveiling of 1000 Place Des Gouverneurs. The new 14-storey building will feature 124 units from 513 sq.ft. to 1298 sq.ft.

All the units will have balconies and some of the units will have outdoor living spaces up to 600 sq.ft.

The 14th floor will have a full fitness facility as well as an outdoor terrace for residents to enjoy, with sitting and BBQ areas.
Place Des Gouverneurs truly reflects the new outlook of Smart Growth & New Urbanism.
three new towers..... interesting shift from the original design! I still don't like the site plan though - so much wasted space, very suburban design, basically 'towers in the park'






http://www.richcraft.com/pdg/images/images.jpg





http://www.richcraft.com/pdg/images/sitemap.jpg

waterloowarrior
Oct 7, 2008, 10:39 PM
from Richcraft's new site... Sept 08

http://www.richcraft.com/images/aerials/pdg.jpg

ServiceGuy
Dec 6, 2009, 7:04 PM
Unfortunately these buildings will never be built. After a year and a half of marketing Richcraft has sold about 8 apartments with 8 more (plus a model) still sitting empty in phase one. Surveyors were all over the site a few months ago and aerial photos taken suggesting an overhaul of the site plan. My guess is the balance of the 19 acres will be developed as low-rise walk ups similar to their "Java" condos which seem to sell very well inside the greenbelt. The ironic part is... that's pretty much what the original site plan was before the first three towers were built. Yet another "master planned community" on the way. :rolleyes:

Kitchissippi
Dec 7, 2009, 12:17 AM
I don't know why, but Richcraft seems to do a really bad job at marketing somehow. Comapare how slowly they sold the Galleria condos with the speed Claridge is moving with the Claridge Plaza just a block away.

PdG is a great site with good visibility from the Queensway and excellent transit links. There is no reason why high density won't work here. One thing their masterplan lacks is some mixed-use vibrancy. I bet if they had done a main street type village configuration that ran from Cyrville road to Ogilvie as a spine and built highrises around it the place would be wildly successful, like the Newport Village development in Port Moody (Vancouver) BC

ServiceGuy
Dec 7, 2009, 3:56 AM
I don't know why, but Richcraft seems to do a really bad job at marketing somehow. Comapare how slowly they sold the Galleria condos with the speed Claridge is moving with the Claridge Plaza just a block away.

Apples to apples Kitchissippi. Galleria wasn't that far off CP I if you factor in the difference in price point and address. I'm not sure how fast CP II moved but CP III and Galleria II are about even with both 50% sold the first week.

PdG is a great site with good visibility from the Queensway and excellent transit links. There is no reason why high density won't work here.
Absolutely! About 98% of the people living there just love the fact they are so close to downtown without actually BEING downtown but that's also a very specific market IMO. Within 10 minutes by car or bus you can either be downtown or out of town.

Sens1992
Dec 7, 2009, 5:05 PM
It seems like people don't want to live in that condo community. If you drive down Cyrville road @ Beau Parc, you will notice that there are at least 5 or 6 signs for units on sale in what is already built.

ServiceGuy
Dec 7, 2009, 10:20 PM
I've only met one person that truly disliked their purchase there and one other that was trying to flip for a ridiculous capital gain (probably still for sale). Most resales seemed to be related to "life changes"... getting married, career transfer, bigger house, etc. Maybe a half-dozen units were purchased by parents to house their own Ottawa U students and there are very few rentals. 5 to 6 resales... 128 units... 2 to 4 years after occupancy... not bad. Richcraft's first building The Laurier is still their best even though it gets wet almost as must as Claridge Plaza I.

CondoGirl
Dec 15, 2009, 4:36 PM
It seems like people don't want to live in that condo community. If you drive down Cyrville road @ Beau Parc, you will notice that there are at least 5 or 6 signs for units on sale in what is already built.

I have to second this statement and add that resales in this project have been taking 3-4 times longer than it takes to sell a condo downtown or in the Market, not to mention that most sellers have had to reduce their asking prices in order to find a buyer.

CondoGirl
Dec 15, 2009, 4:42 PM
I don't know why, but Richcraft seems to do a really bad job at marketing somehow.

Another statement that I'll second... a glance at their website or waking up one of their "sales" reps for a chat will quickly confirm this.

rocketphish
Feb 2, 2010, 12:46 AM
The unfortunate new siteplan:

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4055/4323965972_85f18c1cd8_o_d.jpg

Tower rendering (at least they're keeping one of them):

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2803/4323231705_06ab2e5d45_o_d.jpg

Townhouse rendering (not too bad looking):

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4009/4323231583_b11cbc148e_o_d.jpg

from: http://app01.ottawa.ca/postingplans/appDetails.jsf?lang=en&appId=__7S726R

waterloowarrior
Feb 2, 2010, 1:13 AM
Reduction of 399 units from previous proposal, wow....

Some key stats:
-957 units
-three 16 storey buildings, two 8 storey buildings, lots of stacked towns
-680 square metres commercial space
-community centre
-693 parking spaces required, 1223 provided
-820 parking spaces indoors, 403 outdoors
-Site breakdown (including existing buildings): 49% landscaped area, 30% parking, 21% building footprint

Roderick Lahey is the architect, Kallala design is the landscape architect

Kitchissippi
Feb 2, 2010, 2:53 AM
This is really sad and it shows how some developers get impatient and/or cave in to the need for cash flow. It reminds me of what happened with Holland Cross. I bet if they hang on for 5 or 6 years more there will be demand for high density in this site especially with LRT at its doorstep.

waterloowarrior
Feb 20, 2010, 4:26 PM
There was an ad in the Citizen about "the Brownstones at Places des Gouverneurs"

ServiceGuy
Feb 20, 2010, 10:06 PM
I still believe this site will eventually end up as nothing but the three existing "towers" plus a whole lot of low-rise walk ups. The condo craze is down town otherwise you have to have something pretty special to sell.

TransitZilla
Feb 21, 2010, 5:03 PM
I still believe this site will eventually end up as nothing but the three existing "towers" plus a whole lot of low-rise walk ups. The condo craze is down town otherwise you have to have something pretty special to sell.

ServiceGuy is right.

See: http://app01.ottawa.ca/postingplans/appDetails.jsf?lang=en&appId=__7S726R

To quote from the above:

An application to amend a previously approved site plan by substituting a number of apartment blocks with 18 stacked townhouse blocks resulting in a net reduction of 399 dwelling units for development proposal as a whole.


The site plan shows some remaining apartment buildings along Cyrville and Ogilvie, but the rest are replaced with stacked townhomes. Too bad, but the apartments obviously weren't selling. It will still be decent density.

Proof Sheet
Feb 21, 2010, 5:57 PM
ServiceGuy is right.

See: http://app01.ottawa.ca/postingplans/appDetails.jsf?lang=en&appId=__7S726R

To quote from the above:


The site plan shows some remaining apartment buildings along Cyrville and Ogilvie, but the rest are replaced with stacked townhomes. Too bad, but the apartments obviously weren't selling. It will still be decent density.

This revised site plan has a new architect from the original approved plans....

sidman
Dec 9, 2010, 11:42 PM
Any further information on this project?

kwoldtimer
Dec 10, 2010, 3:30 AM
Other than that it sucks, you mean? :yuck:

TransitZilla
Dec 13, 2010, 4:14 AM
http://www.richcraft.com/brownstones/images/home-image.jpg

http://www.richcraft.com/brownstones/index.html

I don't think it's that bad.

c_speed3108
Dec 13, 2010, 1:16 PM
http://www.richcraft.com/brownstones/images/home-image.jpg

http://www.richcraft.com/brownstones/index.html

I don't think it's that bad.

That is a complete re-design!


What would have been cool if they made these look like actual Brooklyn brownstones:

http://helgahenry.posterous.com/househunting-in-brooklyn-hello-craigslist

McC
Dec 13, 2010, 1:21 PM
so much beautiful surface parking! (buildings themselves look okay, too)

blackjagger
Dec 13, 2010, 7:22 PM
so much beautiful surface parking! (buildings themselves look okay, too)

Not to mention in a development this size not even an attempt at a commercial main street or small commercial section near the transit station was made. It’s sad when Richcraft’s Longfields Station Development has a better urban design then an area inside the greenbelt.

Cheers,
Josh

c_speed3108
Dec 13, 2010, 8:32 PM
Not to mention in a development this size not even an attempt at a commercial main street or small commercial section near the transit station was made. It’s sad when Richcraft’s Longfields Station Development has a better urban design then an area inside the greenbelt.

Cheers,
Josh


This development really needs some commercial space added to it. Perhaps something like a corner store, a coffee shop and perhaps a pub or restaurant of some sort.

I would love to see some sort of unique design of homes/condos not found elsewhere in the city.

ServiceGuy
Jan 14, 2011, 11:48 PM
whoops... wrong building. Post removed.

Harley613
May 14, 2014, 5:51 PM
The Brownstones are coming along, and they don't look too bad.

http://i.imgur.com/y6T3KZe.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/Stz2fBj.jpg