[Ninjawho]

Some fairly fresh news for us...

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5gc-mH-ciw8uJxb2XGreDHlKPzLYQD9688EUO0

Full steam ahead still!! :)



Hmm, I don't think I trust this source. Who is it? AP? Never heard of'em. They got the height wrong by nearly 14,000 ft. And they weren't from Chicago. So sorry trance I think its not reputable.

[hammersklavier]

:previous: Sarcasm?

Nice find trance.

[pwp]

"The height of a recession is actually one of the best times to build a tall building," said Antony Wood, executive director of the Chicago-based Council on Tall Buildings and Urban Habitat. "To build a tall building at the height of a boom is perhaps folly

Sweet!

[gttx]

According to the CTBUH, the Comcast Center was the 6th tallest building completed in 2008....in the world.

http://www.ctbuh.org/HighRiseInfo/TallestDatabase/TallestCompletedEachYear/TallestCompletedin2008/tabid/790/Default.aspx

[BuildItUp]

Sweet!

I agree that this is the best time to build and help boost the local/national economy. During times of high unemployment rate, the employers can pick and choose the best qualify candidate, in addition commodities prices have dropped low enough for builders to negotiate better terms (low demand, over supply = favorable terms). Builders should lobby Congress to grant them tax credit for taking risk to help boost the economy by creating jobs, creating demands which may have a multiplier effects to restore our economy. The major road blocks here are TENANTS, once tenants are secured FINANCE will guarantee to follow.

[pwp]

The major road blocks here are TENANTS, once tenants are secured FINANCE will guarantee to follow.

If that's the case then it's only a matter of time (knock on wood). They mentioned that the anchor tenants would not be financial. Shall we play the speculation game again? What were the names floating around before? And does this mean TD is out?

IMO a pharmaceutical or communications company would seem the logical choice.

[kilbride102]

It' hard not to get excited when you don't hear bad news about this project. Even with the economy in the shape its in, we still hear positive news with hope to begin construction this year. I'm still optimistic at this point.

[volguus zildrohar]

The developers are serious enough about building it, apparently, but you can't get blood from a stone. Economic conditions are dire and even people in a position to commit such a large sum of money to anything are going to be wary to do it in this economy and this project is dependent on a number of factors to hit its own benchmark for success - too tall an order, I think, for these times.

It's not out of the question but look for this one to stay on the backburner for a bit.

[Don098]

agreed

a building that stands 15,010 ft tall called the American Commerce Center, being built at a time when American Commerce resembles the hole that the Chicago Spire is right now would be IRONIC.

I smell bitterness...keep that in the Chicago Spire thread where it belongs, please.

[relnahe]

...and to think someone posted somewhere recently that the Denver SSP posters were becoming more insufferable then the Chicago SSP posters. :)

[WonderlandPark]

If Denver is insufferable, than Philly is totally delusional, It Ain't Happen' Folks, not this year.

And Pharma almost ALWAYS builds campuses, even in Europe, that is just what they do.

[Don098]

If Denver is insufferable, than Philly is totally delusional, It Ain't Happen' Folks, not this year.

And Pharma almost ALWAYS builds campuses, even in Europe, that is just what they do.

Maybe you're right and maybe your wrong, but since you've never posted in this thread before and I'm almost positive you have not read any of the articles or minutes from the city planning commission and city rules committee that are dispersed throughout the 60-some odd pages of this thread, you're speculation is merely that. It doesn't hold a lot of weight when all the evidence points to this actually coming to fruition...

Just because the Chicago Spire's hole has filled up with water doesn't mean you can pour it out and rain on our parade. The conversation that is developing is what closes the Chicago Spire thread once a month, and I don't think any of us wants this thread to close, so perhaps we should give the speculation a rest... None of us really knows what's going on so it's an exercise in futility. The only thing we can go on are articles, and so far, none of them have evidence that this project is derailing.

[jcchii]

even some office towers with nearly full would-be tenant rosters are not getting financing at the moment

kind of a bit of a credit crunch right now, is why some people might make comments, for those who don't have TVs or access to newspapers

[Ninjawho]

Maybe you're right and maybe your wrong, but since you've never posted in this thread before and I'm almost positive you have not read any of the articles or minutes from the city planning commission and city rules committee that are dispersed throughout the 60-some odd pages of this thread, you're speculation is merely that. It doesn't hold a lot of weight when all the evidence points to this actually coming to fruition...

Just because the Chicago Spire's hole has filled up with water doesn't mean you can pour it out and rain on our parade. The conversation that is developing is what closes the Chicago Spire thread once a month, and I don't think any of us wants this thread to close, so perhaps we should give the speculation a rest... None of us really knows what's going on so it's an exercise in futility. The only thing we can go on are articles, and so far, none of them have evidence that this project is derailing.


Thank you. Couldn't of said it better.

even some office towers with nearly full would-be tenant rosters are not getting financing at the moment

kind of a bit of a credit crunch right now, is why some people might make comments, for those who don't have TVs or access to newspapers

Oh hey...guess what, this project is financed through a PENSION FUND. That's why some of us might make comments, for those who don't have access to the 1,312 posts in this thread. (That's 1,312 not 13,120, in case some of you from Obamastan are number challenged).

[WonderlandPark]

Thank you. Couldn't of said it better.



Oh hey...guess what, this project is financed through a PENSION FUND.

So what, see 301 Capitol Mall, Sacramento. Funded by a state pension fund. So "funded by a PENSION FUND" doesn't mean squat. If there is a market for this, then it will go, but because a pension fund is behind it is pretty meaningless.

[Ninjawho]

So what, see 301 Capitol Mall, Sacramento. Funded by a state pension fund. So "funded by a PENSION FUND" doesn't mean squat. If there is a market for this, then it will go, but because a pension fund is behind it is pretty meaningless.

Hey, check the last word in the first sentence. I don't think I need to say anything else.

[tranceclubbinphilly]

I think we should all relax a little bit and remember this is in the proposal category still.

To all of us people who love this building: In spite of whatever anyone on here says all evidence points to this thing getting the green light in the near future.

To everyone else: You are entitled to your opinion but please do not make this thread into a constant fight. It makes for an annoying read. Personally I come to this page looking for news, not 10 posts on why this won't get built from people without degrees in economics.

[a chicago bearcat]

I smell bitterness...keep that in the Chicago Spire thread where it belongs, please.

actually not bitter at all, I just honestly think if this gets built the name would be ironic

I'm also not a huge fan of supertalls. Give me a rich 30 block urban fabric for the burj dubai ANY day

[hammersklavier]

Agreed on that but remember that this proposal would be a supertall in a rich multiblock stretch of urban fabric. Google Maps it and you'll see.

[Cro Burnham]

. . . in case some of you from Obamastan are number challenged . . .

He said "Obamastan" ... "challenged" . . . that's, like, kind of funny . . . heh heh!
http://www.geocities.com/Colosseum/Arena/5611/bbdc.jpg

[wanderer34]

:previous: Just a reminder, anybody who thinks that the ACC won't get built simply because of dire economic times need to look at some of the more iconic towers like the Empire State building (start of the Great Depression), the World Trade Center , the John Hancock center, and the Sears tower (last three built during high inflation, and rising energy prices). I know people want to shelve the ACC for economic reasons, but think as to why those towers were built. It was for inspiration and to improve NYC and Chicago's future, which it did. That's why those two cities are the preeminent cities in Americaalong w/ LA. So can Philly!!! ;)

[skyscraper]

:previous: Just a reminder, anybody who thinks that the ACC won't get built simply because of dire economic times need to look at some of the more iconic towers like the Empire State building (start of the Great Depression), the World Trade Center , the John Hancock center, and the Sears tower (last three built during high inflation, and rising energy prices). I know people want to shelve the ACC for economic reasons, but think as to why those towers were built. It was for inspiration and to improve NYC and Chicago's future, which it did. That's why those two cities are the preeminent cities in Americaalong w/ LA. So can Philly!!! ;)

also the PSFS building.

[shakman]

Finance was available for the above mentioned projects. Finance is something that is becoming difficult to aquire, as we all know.

I hope a major tenant can be inked so this beauty can be built.

Any idea on the hotel brand?

[hammersklavier]

TSTB! (the sooner the better)

Just what that freakin' parkin' lot west of the CC needs!

[We Got Five]

Phillyskyline.com reported a that "Fairmont" Hotel was rumored for the ACC project...as well as Bloomingdales. This was back in the Fall I beleive.

[Don098]

And as I feared, the conversation is now in full swing from outsiders stirring up the pot. Well, I suppose this was bound to happen now that the news has died down.

To the people that say "this building won't get built in this economy." You're right.






That's because it's NOT getting built tomorrow, or the next day. Not next week. Not next month. Not in three months. Not in 6 months. "This" economy will not be tomorrow's economy. The earliest that the ACC would start is the end of this year, and no one knows what the economic conditions might be by then.

[shakman]

And as I feared, the conversation is now in full swing from outsiders stirring up the pot. Well, I suppose this was bound to happen now that the news has died down. People are forgetting that no matter what happens, this thing isn't getting built tomorrow. Earliest would be the end of this year, and no one knows what the economic conditions might be by then. That's what these "it's never gonna get built" people are completely forgetting. No, it wouldn't get built today, and it was never planned as such like some of the other dead/on a ventilator projects in this country...

My spoon is too small to stir the pot. :whip:

[wanderer34]

also the PSFS building.

I was actually referring to something on the international level, not local!!!

[skyscraper]

I was actually referring to something on the international level, not local!!!

those are not "international" buildings, they are all in the United States. if anything, PSFS is at least as "international" as those because it was the first skyscraper to be designed in the International Style. By Swiss architect William Lescaze.
the PSFS is a gem, study it a little and you'll find that out (or at least it was before its hotel conversion.)

[buildup]

Actually it is rare that the financing is in place first. But due to the economic climate right now it will be harder to get a major tennant for the ACC. That is now the biggest holdup.

Tall skyscrapers were all American probably well into the 1950's. Any of the outsiders know of the earliest skyscrapers over 40 floors or 500' built outside of the US?

[WonderlandPark]

Moscow had the earliest skyscraper outside the US, at least over 500'

So did Warsaw, not sure how high the Warsaw one was.

[sjs2017]

Actually it is rare that the financing is in place first. But due to the economic climate right now it will be harder to get a major tennant for the ACC. That is now the biggest holdup.

Tall skyscrapers were all American probably well into the 1950's. Any of the outsiders know of the earliest skyscrapers over 40 floors or 500' built outside of the US?

There really isn't financing in place for this thing. There is an equity investor, but its is very unlikely anyone is going to put up the construction loan in this environment even if there was a big tenant. Projects that are mostly leased are being cancelled

[philadelphiathrives]

Oh, please! So what if they don't build it right now, it usually takes years to build something this big anyway. It took twenty years to build that screwdriver in Shanghai and 15 years to build the World Trade Center. Also, some skyscrapers were built in depressed neighborhoods in cities that were experiencing rapid job and population loss at the time such as the WTC and Renaissance Center in Detroit. This is being built in a prime office and cultural district in a city on the upswing with a low rate of downtown office vacancy. So, it could definitely happen and the wait will be more than worth it! :D :tup: :cheers:

[Cro Burnham]

I am thrilled about this project and of course I hope it will get built. But the other guy is right - an equity commitment is only one very small step in securing financing as many of us know.

Before debt is committed to the project, as we all know, the project will need creditworthy leases for probably 70% of the building, regardless of the financial crisis. And these leases will probably need to pay, as Comcast's does at Comcast Center, at least $35 - $40 PSF, well above the CBD Class A market norm, in order for the building attain the necessary debt service coverage ratios and equity return thresholds.

Presumably (and assuming the names that have been mentioned on this thread are realistic prospects), Verizon and GSK would meet necessary credit standards. The key questions are: how much space do they actually need, and how much are they willing to pay? If their combined space needs do not equal at least 70% of the building, and if they are not willing to pay a big premium over market to be in such a building, then it is unlikely that this building would be built any time in the foreseeable future.

The good news is that construction and materials costs are declining which likely reduces rent premiums. The "bad" news is that the state and city are strapped and will have no capacity financially or politically to subsidize the project, as they did with the $40 million public area improvements at Comcast Center.

But if GSK and Verizon are for real, want to make a statement, and are willing to pay the price (rent premium) then I think this has a very good chance of happening, regardless of the financial crisis.

[skyscraper]

wow, this thread could use a bump.
while not directly related to this building, here is an article from building design & construction magazine talking about the skyscraper as an economic indicator. people seem very concerned about the viability of this building given the economy, and if you are one of the concerned this should be an interesting read.

http://www.bdcnetwork.com/index.asp?layout=articleXml&xmlId=923331516&nid=2073

[Pinoy2.0]

build it, take the train, save money on gas and save the environment all in one swoop :banana:

[Thymant]

Yes, build it is a worderful tower and Icon.

[ltsmotorsport]

Maybe this could be Philly's ESB. New tallest, constructed in the worst economic climate, sits mostly empty for a few years, but ends up becoming the iconic Philadelphia skyscraper in decades to come.

[buildup]

Well, the economy already tanked. Building the ACC beginning in the fall would be a great time to start and employ a few thousand people and be ready when the economy recovers. Philly is always behind the economic trend.

[shakman]

Well, the economy already tanked. Building the ACC beginning in the fall would be a great time to start and employ a few thousand people and be ready when the economy recovers. Philly is always behind the economic trend.

The economy is still sliding. I hope Philly is behind the economic trend. Regardless if it is or not, I am quite hopeful that this will get built.

[hammersklavier]

Philly is behind the economic trend. It's one of the healthiest metro areas right now, far healthier than the Sunbelt. Unfortunately, we tend to bear the brunt of economic meltdowns about the time when the national economy actually starts recovering, which usually puts us about five years behind everybody else...

[philadelphiathrives]

Philly is behind the economic trend. It's one of the healthiest metro areas right now, far healthier than the Sunbelt. Unfortunately, we tend to bear the brunt of economic meltdowns about the time when the national economy actually starts recovering, which usually puts us about five years behind everybody else...

There's always something to whine about! :( :(

[CrazyFinger]

Been awhile since I posted on this thread. Im all for this building.... But there is one small point I agree with the people at KH, although my reasons are different... I think Market East needs some height.... Lets start pushing the skyline eastward.... But you see I understand how things work.... this lot is owned by the people who want to build it.... I guess the greyhairs feel that this building can just be built anywhere.... build it now.....

[williamphilapa]

It's been a while since I looked at the website...when I looked today it was changed up a bit.

...may have been changed 3-4 months ago though :)

http://www.acctower.com/

[Ninjawho]

I believe thats a new update! Thanks for checking up on that :)

[scalziand]

Are those SSP diagrams there?

[We Got Five]

Yes, the site has been updated slightly to include floor plans and other additional information. This must have happened in the last 2-3 months.

[Don098]

I think it's looked this way ever since Swinefeld alerted us to the change sometime last year...

[Londonee]

For what it's worth, i was told by a parking lot attendant today on this building's lot at 18th and Arch that their parking operation is going away come June and signs will start appearing indicating this sometime in May.

In his words, clearing the lot for construction purposes.

[Ninjawho]

For what it's worth, i was told by a parking lot attendant today on this building's lot at 18th and Arch that their parking operation is going away come June and signs will start appearing indicating this sometime in May.

In his words, clearing the lot for construction purposes.

booy. ya.

[hammersklavier]

Sweetness! But look at the 1600 Vine lot...

So do they think they're close to a deal?

[M II A II R II K]

Are those SSP diagrams there?

Thanks for pointing that out. It turns out they stole them and put in on their site. They will be petitioned to remove them or pay up.

[Palms]

Sweetness!

So do they think they're close to a deal?

Today I saw 2 guys building a wooden frame on the SE corner of ACC's lot. Future diagram of ACC perhaps or a notice of parking changes?

[Ninjawho]

Today I saw 2 guys building a wooden frame on the SE corner of ACC's lot. Future diagram of ACC perhaps or a notice of parking changes?

Well I've thought about a few things over the course of the day...

They wouldn't be gearing up for construction if 1. they didn't have a deal or 2. they had the final approval from the Planning Commision....right? Now they might have the deal in place and or close to it and just haven't announced anything....but I really don't think they'd be preparing for construction until they got the zoning from the city....right?

Or am I missing something?

[We Got Five]

This is very interesting news. Let's just speculate that they have a tenant(s). When is the PCC planning on giving approval? This is a huge lot that generates a lot of revenue.

[pwp]

If a deal is in place then it's possible that they won't make it public until some time has passed.

Fingers crossed. Fingers crossed!

[Cro Burnham]

Given the state of the financial sector, I seriously doubt any deal has been made. It goes against all reason. No deals are being made anywhere. Maybe they are just closing the lot so they can do some geotech investigations. But that does not mean construction is imminent. Maybe they are switching operators.

Of course I'd eat my panties with joy if I'm wrong, but let's not let ourselves get too excited.

[GarCastle]

I'm going to go ahead and speculate that they want to seem serious about the project so they will make at least the minimal investment of clearing the pavement off the lot. The sooner they do it, the sooner they can start so it is worth the minor loss of revenue from the parking fees.

They may also have some questions about the literal lot in mind and need to start probing the ground to confirm some things or whatever. /shrug.

[Jayfar]

I'm going to go ahead and speculate that they want to seem serious about the project so they will make at least the minimal investment of clearing the pavement off the lot. The sooner they do it, the sooner they can start so it is worth the minor loss of revenue from the parking fees.

They may also have some questions about the literal lot in mind and need to start probing the ground to confirm some things or whatever. /shrug.
That sounds about right. These pre-construction signs come and go all the time. 20th and Market anyone? Or the huge original Venturi symphony hall sign complete with architect's rendering.

[volguus zildrohar]

The ACC diagrams are up on the corners along 18th Street and Arch Street.

[pwp]

The ACC diagrams are up on the corners along 18th Street and Arch Street.

Fan-freakin-tastic. That's a good step!

Although I'm remembering the Trump Tower photos and diagrams on Delaware Ave.

[BigDan35]

Fan-freakin-tastic. That's a good step!

Although I'm remembering the Trump Tower photos and diagrams on Delaware Ave.

Yea, I'm not using any "!!!!" or getting excited when it comes to this proposal. I've been let down way too many times in the past year with proposals here in LA, or Philly. At least that way if it doesn't happen, I can't be as disappointed.

But for the record....I HOPE HOPE HOPE HOPE this building gets built. I've been contemplating moving to Philly for a long time (actually about 8 years now). If this building gets built I should make a promise to myself that I will finally move to Philly.

[bucks native]

This is very interesting news. Let's just speculate that they have a tenant(s). When is the PCC planning on giving approval? This is a huge lot that generates a lot of revenue.

Is there something more to the approval process?

Check box:

Zoning approval = yes
City Council approval = yes
Philadelphia City Planning Commission = yes


from here: http://cpnmhn.typepad.com/cpn/2008/11/proposed-1b-philadelphia-skyscraper-gets-zoning-approvals-awaits-city-ok.html

November 21, 2008
Proposed $1B Philadelphia Skyscraper Gets Zoning Approvals, Awaits City OK

By Gail Kalinoski, Contributing Editor

-- The American Commerce Center, a $1 billion, mixed-use skyscraper proposed for 1800 Arch St., in Philadelphia's Center City, moved another step closer to reality this week when the city's planning commission unanimously approved zoning changes for the 1.5-acre site.

“We are excited to have moved past this hurdle and look forward to the next step in front of the Philadelphia City Council on Dec. 3rd at 9:00 am and are very encouraged by the broad support we have received across the city for the American Commerce Center,” Garrett Miller, president of Hill International Real Estate Partners, L.P., said in a statement. Following the Dec. 3 public hearing, the City Council could vote on the development proposal as soon as Dec. 11, according to various news reports.



Philadelphia City Planning Commission approves American Commerce Center plan

Source: Planphilly.com, 11/20/2008

The Philadelphia City Planning Commission approved plans for the American Commerce Center at its meeting Tuesday, reported Planphilly.

The 2.2 million square-foot tower will cost about $1.1 billion and reach 1,500 feet over the city at 18th and Arch streets. It now goes to the City Council Committee on Rules.

Read the full report at Planphilly.com.


from here: http://www.bizjournals.com/philadelphia/stories/2008/12/08/daily46.html

December 12, 2008

Phila. council OKs American Commerce Center skyscraper

Philadelphia Business Journal

City Council unanimously approved the zoning change and plans for the American Commerce Center, a skyscraper proposed by Hill International Real Estate Partners for 18th and Arch streets in Philadelphia.

It would be the tallest building in Philadelphia. It would have 2.2 million square feet with a mix of office, retail, hotel and public spaces. The next step is for the proposal to go through the plan development review process before the city's planning commission, which could take two to three months, according to Peter Kelsen, an attorney representing the builder.

[Ninjawho]

When they had the the Planning Commission meeting, and Swinefiled and Late1 and Don, can correct me on this, but, I thought they said they were going to remove the zoning restrictions, (the general ones), but were going to require them to come back one last time, once they have the tenants and are ready to build, to get final approval on the bonuses they wanted added to the height variance. They weren't sure about things like the size of the sidewalks and how close the building would be to kennedy house and stuff.

Maybe I'm completely wrong tho...

[Don098]

When they had the the Planning Commission meeting, and Swinefiled and Late1 and Don, can correct me on this, but, I thought they said they were going to remove the zoning restrictions, (the general ones), but were going to require them to come back one last time, once they have the tenants and are ready to build, to get final approval on the bonuses they wanted added to the height variance. They weren't sure about things like the size of the sidewalks and how close the building would be to kennedy house and stuff.

Maybe I'm completely wrong tho...

That's correct. The planning commission still needs to give one last final approval. The one they gave was simply a zoning recommendation to the city rules committee, not an OK on the entire project itself. They are fully reviewing the proposal now, and things like the traffic study etc. are going to be taken much more seriously now. The flurry stages are over, now comes the waiting for the tenant and then the approval...and then the financing. I think this is negotiation time for the developers, between the city and prospective tenants. I'm not really sure why they're dropping the parking revenue so soon...under the absolute best circumstances they won't be breaking ground for probably 6 months at least, but that's simply a guess.

Have you heard anything new Swinefeld?

[Swinefeld]

Have you heard anything new Swinefeld?
Not lately but I'll see if I can did up some new info.

[philadelphiathrives]

While the signs and site preparation don't guarantee that they'll break ground soon, let's just remember that this is NOT the time for overconfidence on the part of developers. So, if the developers are making these moves during such a pessimistic time, they must be very confident that things can begin soon, because they would be inclined not to put up signs and start site preparation at a time like this. :D :cheers:

[Don098]

How much money can a parking lot of this size generate for the land owner (in terms of pure profit)? I wonder if it's nearly negligible when you've got a billion-dollar development to think about. Perhaps they're doing this simply for show?

[Ninjawho]

How much money can a parking lot of this size generate for the land owner (in terms of pure profit)? I wonder if it's nearly negligible when you've got a billion-dollar development to think about. Perhaps they're doing this simply for show?

I think its probably more than you think. How many spots do you think there are on that lot? 200 maybe? They probably gross, (And I'm pretty sure I'm low balling this since I have no idea in reality how much lots make per day), at least 20$ a day on each spot. Thats 4k a day over 365 days, (remember on the weekend they might not sell out the lot but its still in use so 20$ is an average per day per spot for the whole week roughly), and thats almost 1.5 mil a year. I think that covers the taxes they pay and whatever they pay the attendants, with still a nice little profit. Yea they might be talking a billion dollar development...but bring in a mil on a lot isn't chump change in this economy. Especially since its a lot, which requires very little maintence or overhead.

[1SharpeMan]

That is definately low balling as I have parked there myself. Now I know the lot is not always full, but I have used it for an hour or two and then left so that does not even count that each space could be used numerous times in a 24 hour period.

[Don098]

I think its probably more than you think. How many spots do you think there are on that lot? 200 maybe? They probably gross, (And I'm pretty sure I'm low balling this since I have no idea in reality how much lots make per day), at least 20$ a day on each spot. Thats 4k a day over 365 days, (remember on the weekend they might not sell out the lot but its still in use so 20$ is an average per day per spot for the whole week roughly), and thats almost 1.5 mil a year. I think that covers the taxes they pay and whatever they pay the attendants, with still a nice little profit. Yea they might be talking a billion dollar development...but bring in a mil on a lot isn't chump change in this economy. Especially since its a lot, which requires very little maintence or overhead.

I was actually thinking about a million a year myself.

[rricci]

The Plan was approved by the LSNA board, although the City PC noted that they disagree with the recommendation that zoning be changed for the potential ACC site TMU.

http://www.lsnaphilly.org/display/EXT/Home

[hammersklavier]

I thought the neighborhood wanted this thing built? I mean, with what it's offering to the average Logan Squarer on a half-block (if that) of land--2 parks, bike parking garage, commercial center facing Arch, and all that other stuff--and the fact that it's behind (south of) 2 Logan Square* (mitigating shadow problems somewhat)--don't the residents of the old neighborhood want this? It's KH and the Sterling who're against it, because it'd block their Parkway vistas.

*A surprisingly handsome building IMO.

[logansquare]

I thought the neighborhood wanted this thing built? I mean, with what it's offering to the average Logan Squarer on a half-block (if that) of land--2 parks, bike parking garage, commercial center facing Arch, and all that other stuff--and the fact that it's behind (south of) 2 Logan Square* (mitigating shadow problems somewhat)--don't the residents of the old neighborhood want this? It's KH and the Sterling who're against it, because it'd block their Parkway vistas.

*A surprisingly handsome building IMO.

I think that is about right Hammer. I think most in the 'hood are supportive of the project, given the positives.

There is some concern that it could signal a continued march of large buildings down Arch, but hopefully proper zoning, planning etc... (which is hopefully in place!) will better govern context etc...

[philadelphiathrives]

I was at the Logan Square meeting and saw the plan. The height limits they were talking about didn't include the ACC site. They want to limit heights in other residential areas, but the ACC site was clearly out of the zones where they want the height limits. :D

[graupner]

Projects are beeing cancelled all across the world and a promoter wants to build a 63 floors office tower close to Ground-Zero of the global credit crunch ?

He's either brave or running on TARP money...

[pwp]

Projects are beeing cancelled all across the world and a promoter wants to build a 63 floors office tower close to Ground-Zero of the global credit crunch ?

He's either brave or running on TARP money...

90 miles can make a world of difference my friend.

[hammersklavier]

If you've been in Philly recently, you'll know we're feeling amazingly optimistic right about now. The recession hasn't been anywhere near as bad here as it's been elsewhere, and of course our sports teams have been doing great.

[We Got Five]

Or he has a lead tenant(s) in play. :tup:

[Chriss]

Anyone have photos of the signs?

[SSBMEXPERT]

Anyone have photos of the signs?

From the Philly VII development thread...

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3571/3371648258_5906c361f9.jpg

Also, there is another quick snapshot of the sign up on phillyskyline.com. Other than that, I know of nothing else right now.

[philadelphiathrives]

Projects are beeing cancelled all across the world and a promoter wants to build a 63 floors office tower close to Ground-Zero of the global credit crunch ?

He's either brave or running on TARP money...

Philadelphia has a very diverse economy, the downtown office market isn't dominated by financial companies. This area has plenty of medical, pharmaceutical, engineering, telecommunications, aerospace, and service companies, in addition to financial companies, headquartered here. In fact, the two companies rumored to be interested in the site are GlaxoSmithkline, which has its North American HQ here, and Verizon, which used to be headquartered here a few years ago.

And what's more, the vacancy rate in downtown is around 10%, which is considered low during a normal economy and incredible during a recession. Right now, there are no buildings in downtown that have enough space for a large company to expand or for a large company to move in to. So, a new building that would be completed in 3 to 4 years would seem very good for the market. :D

[We Got Five]

Philadelphia has a very diverse economy, the downtown office market isn't dominated by financial companies. This area has plenty of medical, pharmaceutical, engineering, telecommunications, aerospace, and service companies, in addition to financial companies, headquartered here. In fact, the two companies rumored to be interested in the site are GlaxoSmithkline, which has its North American HQ here, and Verizon, which used to be headquartered here a few years ago.

True, we're not dominated by financial companies. However, I would not call us diverse by any stretch. We have 1 major Pharma company (and we're no longer the NA HQ - that got stripped about a year ago when they moved some operations to North Carolina). Maybe you're including south Jersey and the northern/western suburbs in your response but center city is far from diverse. If you are including the burbs then yes I would agree with you. Our strength lies with our Health Systems and Education sector. We desperately need to grow the core to include an array of different industries. Would a Verizon move be so bad for Comcast? Competition is a great thing! Would another Pharma company (Teva? although highly unlikely) be interested in center city? Until somebody not named GSK shows interest, it's highly unlikely.

[Swinefeld]

Or he has a lead tenant(s) in play. :tup:
Right now American Commerce Center's main focus is on landing tenants both major and minor. Keep hope alive!

[Cro Burnham]

However, I would not call us diverse by any stretch.

Not to be argumentative, but I disagree - Philadelphia's economy, both inside and outside the City - is almost too diversified. Other than pharmaceuticals, there is virtually no industry or employer that could really be described in any way as dominant. Almost of all of largest corporate offices in the region represent different industries: chemicals, pharma, finance, petroleum, manufacturing, wholesaling/retailing, technology, food processing, communications, professional.

Look at the names of the top companies with national HQ or large corporate presence, almost all in different industries:

Comcast, Sunoco, Crown Cork & Seal, Cigna, Rohm & Haas, Lincoln National, GSK, Delaware Investments, SAP, Siemens, Subaru, Atochem, FMC, Amerisource, ACE, Sovereign Bank, Wachovia, PNC, Wyeth, Astra Zeneca, Unisys, Campbells, GE Aerospace, L3, TD Bank, Boeing, Vanguard, Radian, Pep Boys, Advanta, etc . . .

None of these big companies is that big compared to the real giants - the real backbone of industry here is a diverse patchwork of middle market firms and professional services, not Fortune 100 companies.

[We Got Five]

Not to be argumentative, but I disagree - Philadelphia's economy, both inside and outside the City - is almost too diversified. Other than pharmaceuticals, there is virtually no industry or employer that could really be described in any way as dominant. Almost of all of largest corporate offices in the region represent different industries: chemicals, pharma, finance, petroleum, manufacturing, wholesaling/retailing, technology, food processing, communications, professional.

Look at the names of the top companies with national HQ or large corporate presence, almost all in different industries:

Comcast, Sunoco, Crown Cork & Seal, Cigna, Rohm & Haas, Lincoln National, GSK, Delaware Investments, SAP, Siemens, Subaru, Atochem, FMC, Amerisource, ACE, Sovereign Bank, Wachovia, PNC, Wyeth, Astra Zeneca, Unisys, Campbells, GE Aerospace, L3, TD Bank, Boeing, Vanguard, Radian, Pep Boys, Advanta, etc . . .

None of these big companies is that big compared to the real giants - the real backbone of industry here is a diverse patchwork of middle market firms and professional services, not Fortune 100 companies.

Yes you are correct, but the original discussion was centered on center city, not the region as a whole.

[philadelphiathrives]

Look at the names of the top companies with national HQ or large corporate presence, almost all in different industries:

Comcast, Sunoco, Crown Cork & Seal, Cigna, Rohm & Haas, Lincoln National, GSK, Delaware Investments, SAP, Siemens, Subaru, Atochem, FMC, Amerisource, ACE, Sovereign Bank, Wachovia, PNC, Wyeth, Astra Zeneca, Unisys, Campbells, GE Aerospace, L3, TD Bank, Boeing, Vanguard, Radian, Pep Boys, Advanta, etc . . .

None of these big companies is that big compared to the real giants - the real backbone of industry here is a diverse patchwork of middle market firms and professional services, not Fortune 100 companies.

Whatever... :haha: !

[Cro Burnham]

Yes you are correct, but the original discussion was centered on center city, not the region as a whole.

I'm surprised you wouldn't say the same for Center City - it is not heavily dependent on any single industry or major company as far as I know.

[Don098]

Not to be argumentative, but I disagree - Philadelphia's economy, both inside and outside the City - is almost too diversified.

Maybe you meant that the business pool isn't very deep in Philadelphia - in the sense that there are a ton of mid-range companies without many top level ones to anchor the city? If I liken it to hockey, are you saying that we have some of the best 2nd and 3rd lines, but we severely lack that next tier of talent for our first line?

You forgot Pew Trust, btw. I'd say they're one of the most important centers of research in Philadelphia with a MAJOR national presence...I'm talking major. However, I don't think they're going to remain headquartered in Philly for too long. The Center down here in DC is growing like mad, and it would make much more sense putting it down here next to the federal government. But still something to very proud of in Philly!!

[hammersklavier]

I think Pew would prefer to stay in Philly, if it could be lured to stay here. Cira South offices, anyone?

[slow-v6]

Not to be argumentative, but I disagree - Philadelphia's economy, both inside and outside the City - is almost too diversified. Other than pharmaceuticals, there is virtually no industry or employer that could really be described in any way as dominant. Almost of all of largest corporate offices in the region represent different industries: chemicals, pharma, finance, petroleum, manufacturing, wholesaling/retailing, technology, food processing, communications, professional.

Look at the names of the top companies with national HQ or large corporate presence, almost all in different industries:

Comcast, Sunoco, Crown Cork & Seal, Cigna, Rohm & Haas, Lincoln National, GSK, Delaware Investments, SAP, Siemens, Subaru, Atochem, FMC, Amerisource, ACE, Sovereign Bank, Wachovia, PNC, Wyeth, Astra Zeneca, Unisys, Campbells, GE Aerospace, L3, TD Bank, Boeing, Vanguard, Radian, Pep Boys, Advanta, etc . . .

None of these big companies is that big compared to the real giants - the real backbone of industry here is a diverse patchwork of middle market firms and professional services, not Fortune 100 companies.

Isnt that a good thing being diverse? gives us a better chance at landing more companies right? and I dont know what is bigger then Wachovia/WellsFargo, Comcast, Pepboys, Boeing, L3, and GE in there industry? Maybe Bank of America for Wachovia, Lockheed Martin for L3. When I think autoparts I think Pepboys as the biggest. when I think Aircraft I think of Boeing as the biggest, Same with GE. What about Verizon and Aramark? are they just names of buildings in the city or are they hq's??

[slow-v6]

I'm surprised you wouldn't say the same for Center City - it is not heavily dependent on any single industry or major company as far as I know.

What do you mean by dependant on a single industry? Is Tourism a industry? Are resturants an Industry? Are arts an industry? You mean Like Detroit with GM ( automotive) industry were if it falls the city really hurts from it?

[Cro Burnham]

What do you mean by dependant on a single industry? . . . You mean Like Detroit with GM ( automotive) industry were if it falls the city really hurts from it?

that's exactly what i mean - or nyc with finance, la with entertainment, dc with government, houston with oil, seattle or sf with hi-tech, pitt with steel (in the old days), hartford with insurance, boston with education, wilmington with dupont and credit cards, vegas with gambling, miami with tourism, milwaukee with beer, etc., etc., etc.

by comparison, chicago, philly, atlanta, dallas, st. louis are more diversified

it's neither good nor bad.

[Don098]

You take away healthcare from Philadelphia and there's not much left at all. What's the stat again? 1 out of 2 people in Philadelphia works for the healthcare industry in some shape or form? Healthcare is Philly's steel.

[Pennsgrant]

You take away healthcare from Philadelphia and there's not much left at all. What's the stat again? 1 out of 2 people in Philadelphia works for the healthcare industry in some shape or form? Healthcare is Philly's steel.

The only cities with more Fortune 500 companies than Philly are NYC, Chicago and the upstart sunbelt cities of Houston,Dallas and Atlanta.Keep in mind that Dallas is 3x Houston 4x times the land area of Philadephia which skews the statistics significantly.

Fortune 500 Companies

Philadelphia

Sunoco 56
Comcast 79
Cigna 141
Aramark 216
Rohm & Haas 295
Crown Holdings 325
Sovereign Bancorp 469


Boston

Liberty Mutual 94
State Street Corp. 225

Los Angeles

Northrop Grumman 76
Occidental Petroleum 123
KB Home 340
Reliance Steel 345
CB Richard Ellis 405

[lawfin]

Isnt that a good thing being diverse? gives us a better chance at landing more companies right? and I dont know what is bigger then Wachovia/WellsFargo, Comcast, Pepboys, Boeing, L3, and GE in there industry? Maybe Bank of America for Wachovia, Lockheed Martin for L3. When I think autoparts I think Pepboys as the biggest. when I think Aircraft I think of Boeing as the biggest, Same with GE. What about Verizon and Aramark? are they just names of buildings in the city or are they hq's??
Boening's HQ is in Chicago not Philly

[winxs]

Boening's HQ is in Chicago not Philly

The previous posts did not say it was. It stated that those companies have either their HQ or a large corporate presence in the area. Boeing DOES have a large Integrated Defense Systems (http://www.dcma.mil/divisions/dcmaa/BoeingPA/contact.htm) contract center located in Philadelphia employing over 4,300. Their Chinook, V-22, FCS, Modeling Simulation and Analysis Center (MSAC), Advanced Rotorcraft and Aerospace Support programs are all based in the Philadelphia region (Ridley Park). Also located in Philly is their legal counsel team amongst other smaller Boeing operations.

[QuarterMileSidewalk]

^It's a bit off-topic, but in the absence of frequent updates about the building, I'm curious for some more details on how those economies are similar or not to Philadelphia's.

[hammersklavier]

Our hyper-compressed central business district mitigates in its favor, though. And don't forget that some 90% of our office space is currently rented out (even in this economy). Don't forget, when Comcast was built, analysts forecasted that the company's movement of its resources into the new building would leave a lot of open office space in the city. Didn't happen--it was all snapped right up. Also don't forget that this is meant to be a pride-of-place headquarters / first-level subsidiary for a (multi)national firm, a type of company we have quite a few of (Comcast, Sunoco, Cigna, GlaxoSmithKline, etc.).

[Cro Burnham]

Right now, it's all a question of tenant credit and the rent premium tenant prospects would be willing to pay over market to be in the building.

Comcast Center is possible only because Comcast was willing to pay a 25%+ premium over standard Philadelphia CBD Class A market rent to have their own signature HQ tower.

ACC would only be possible if the main tenants were highly creditworthy and willing to pay similar premiums.

It's certainly possible.