[SignLion]

That diagram is way off. The height ROOF of Sears Tower is 1451'... not the tops of the ANTENNAE as it indicates. Those are 1730' above street level.

[Ninjawho]

O so could I...3rd tallest in America is a nice title and with the way new supertalls are popping up all over the globe I don't think international rankings are worth as much for our psyches since they're changing so fast...

[SJPhillyBoy]

...I don't think international rankings are worth as much for our psyches since they're changing so fast...
It's worth a lot to my psyche :crazy:

[Don098]

When has that ever stopped her before? She comments on proposals all the time....I'm sure we'll hear all about how this will ruin the city in just a little bit.

Actually, I think she might like the proposal. She knows a lot about development and she's very worldly and therefore understands what a building of this stature would do for Philadelphia. I think she won't like the design architecturally though. She'll probably say it's recycled from the original freedom tower inspirations (you have to admit, the design isn't entirely a brand new genre) and that it therefore won't be as iconic. But I think she'll really like it overall, to be honest. Plus, with funding secured and political backing from the highest office in Philadelphia for rezoning, as well as tenants beginning to line up, I don't think she's going to have too much clout this time around if she doesn't like it. It's an understatement to say that it'll be an uphill battle for opponents trying to drown this project. Not with an internationally revered architect behind the reigns.

[frwolos]

i think its a great bldg.
its about time philly show what is made of

dose anyone know it the top of the comcast bldg. going to be lit up
like the other bldgs. in the city
with out the top not being lit it looks like that its not done at night

[skyscraper]

Actually, I think she might like the proposal. She knows a lot about development and she's very worldly and therefore understands what a building of this stature would do for Philadelphia. I think she won't like the design architecturally though. She'll probably say it's recycled from the original freedom tower inspirations (you have to admit, the design isn't entirely a brand new genre) and that it therefore won't be as iconic. But I think she'll really like it overall, to be honest. Plus, with funding secured and political backing from the highest office in Philadelphia for rezoning, as well as tenants beginning to line up, I don't think she's going to have too much clout this time around if she doesn't like it. It's an understatement to say that it'll be an uphill battle for opponents trying to drown this project. Not with an internationally revered architect behind the reigns.

not to beat a dead horse, but it is precisely because people seem to be getting behind this project that she will probably come out against it. in that profile of her in some rag (I think it was citypaper but don't recall exactly) she took GREAT pride in being the only person to criticize the mural program. that's what she thinks makes her the authority on things she really knows nothing about, the "courage" to come out against them. in other words, she thinks that all you have to do to be a critic is to hate something, or at least say you hate it.
generally, she does little actual architectural criticism. she usually limits her columns to looking at the "urban" aspect of particular projects. she knows she's no architectural critic, so she only really talks about buildings in their larger contexts, not so much individual buildings and their architectural merit.
a few posts back I predicted what she would say about this project, but I don't think I predicted what her overall evaluation of it would be. I think her tone will be generally negative, because of what I said above and the fact that she generally hates almost anything in Philadelphia that goes against what she thinks is our delicate, gossamer urban fabric. the fact that we're not new york is enough for her to come out against any skyscraper project here.
I differ from your thinking that she is worldly. she is clueless. but again I don't want to beat a dead horse. My opinion of her is well known.

[Philly-Drew]

The absolute lame reporting by the Daily news and Philadelphia Inquirer is inexcusable. Most people must realize that they actually buy or “borrow” news stories. Come on, how often do they ever “break” a story. Lame, Lame, Lame.

“Bigger then the World Trade Center” is just bad reporting. “Second tallest building in the world” is both lazy reporting and misleading reporting.

Skyscraper, :previous: I couldn’t agree with you more.

[Philly-Drew]

Question: If I did call a meeting of skyscraper enthusiasts from this thread, let’s say for Friday , April 28th at North Bowl in NoLis, who would come? The meeting would be in reference to how can WE actually get together to make a difference in the designs that are being approved?

I’m tempted to discuss this with people on this thread so we can channel our energy into a productive process that can actually make a difference. Who’s game?

[Don098]

not to beat a dead horse, but it is precisely because people seem to be getting behind this project that she will probably come out against it. in that profile of her in some rag (I think it was citypaper but don't recall exactly) she took GREAT pride in being the only person to criticize the mural program. that's what she thinks makes her the authority on things she really knows nothing about, the "courage" to come out against them. in other words, she thinks that all you have to do to be a critic is to hate something, or at least say you hate it.
generally, she does little actual architectural criticism. she usually limits her columns to looking at the "urban" aspect of particular projects. she knows she's no architectural critic, so she only really talks about buildings in their larger contexts, not so much individual buildings and their architectural merit.
a few posts back I predicted what she would say about this project, but I don't think I predicted what her overall evaluation of it would be. I think her tone will be generally negative, because of what I said above and the fact that she generally hates almost anything in Philadelphia that goes against what she thinks is our delicate, gossamer urban fabric. the fact that we're not new york is enough for her to come out against any skyscraper project here.
I differ from your thinking that she is worldly. she is clueless. but again I don't want to beat a dead horse. My opinion of her is well known.

Haha ok cool...well I've only read the article about her in Philadelphia magazine and read a few of her critiques. She's definitely not an authority on architecture - and neither am i by any stretch of the imagination - and she is a bit of a negadelphian (btw who coined that term because they're a genius). But I said worldly because she has lived in other countries for several years and brings a different perspective to things. For me, spending 2007 in South Africa has really shown me how life could be lived, and what cities are like when they're not dependent on cars. Inga will likely be looking for things to pick at - I mean she'll want to keep her reputation of being outspoken and controversial - but I just have a feeling her criticism won't be the avalanche Symphony House garnered. Was she around when Comcast Center was proposed, and did she write anything about it? I know she'll be doing a piece on it when everything is lit in May.

[murraylight]

It looks like there is a Photo or rendering in the background of the picture with the developer. Has that been posted anywhere?

[apetrella802]

there is something called the Design Advocacy Group open to the public that influences design,

[Busy Bee]

That diagram is way off. The height ROOF of Sears Tower is 1451'... not the tops of the ANTENNAE as it indicates. Those are 1730' above street level.

I agree. It's probably somewhere closer to this:

http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q286/urbsinhorto/G1TALL17Cedit.jpg

[slow-v6]

Question: If I did call a meeting of skyscraper enthusiasts from this thread, let’s say for Friday , April 28th at North Bowl in NoLis, who would come? The meeting would be in reference to how can WE actually get together to make a difference in the designs that are being approved?

I’m tempted to discuss this with people on this thread so we can channel our energy into a productive process that can actually make a difference. Who’s game?

I would be if I was sure I would be up there on the 28th!! It is to far away and the Navy has a tendancy to change on me so we will have to see!

[APPRAISER]

I agree. It's probably somewhere closer to this:

http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q286/urbsinhorto/G1TALL17Cedit.jpg

That is closer, however, the roof height of the Sears Tower is 38 feet shorter than the spires of the Petronas Towers. In that view the Petronas Towers spires are much higher compared with the Sears.

Anyway, my Internet has been down since Thursday night, and what a surprise! Its nice to see Philly getting a super tall. After the Com cast Center, the city kinda started to look like a plateau. With this new building Philly will have a new peak!!

[JV_325i]

^I can't believe somebody was paid to make a diagram as laughably inaccurate as that one is. Does the word "research" mean anything to these people?

At any rate, this is great for Philly. It is always satisfying to have an ugly parking lot (especially one so close to downtown) developed into something of this magnitude. I actually like the design. The interesting configuration they chose with the major setback makes it seem like two buildings in one, but the huge hole in the shorter segment makes it interesting, and it helps to make the visual mass easier on the eyes. I guess a single tower would give it a more "singular" and powerful presence, but why not try something new?

[Rise To The Top]

Havent I seen this before?... Old WTC proposal? I think they could do better for a supertall in Philly, not to be a dick or anything.

[scalziand]

Anyone that uses the diagrams section of this site could see a better diagram here (http://skyscraperpage.com/diagrams/?35516063) that is actually to scale. Unfortunately, no-one draw a diagram for the ACC yet. then again, this proposal has only been out for a weekend.

[cactus22minus1]

Well I can fake a diagram using one of the renders and that very diagram search:

http://img81.imageshack.us/img81/3268/accdiagramze1.jpg
Puppy stands right up to Jin Mao and destroys ESB! IMO ACC looks way more impressive when you're honest about the height of all the buildings. They actually minimized the impact of ACC because they exaggerated the proportions of the spire and made the building itself look smaller.

But enough picking on that illustration.. this proposal is quite impressive. Crossing my fingers for ya, philly.

[tua21506]

i noticed some of you were talking about how ugly the building was next to it with it having all of its mechanical equipment, dumpsters, loading docks ect. on that side..so i took some shots of the ugly stuff lol....wats not in the shot is whats on the lower roof of that building, which if memory serves correct is ugly too...
http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg215/tua21506/P1010057.jpg
http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg215/tua21506/P1010058.jpg

[TechTalkGuy]

As a major skyscraper fan for most of my life, I want this tower built for Philadelphia.

Then together, Philadelphia and New York can have supertalls !! :cheers:

[Magnus1]

I wanted to bring this over from the Philly thread.

Photo by Giovanni Sasso www.phillyskyline.com

http://phillyskyline.com/misc/wallpaper_acc_goaheadstealme.jpg


wow, philly has clean skyline! i like those glass towers

[Don098]

You know, the more I look at the design, the more I think the spire is too tall. I wonder if it would look better if the actual building topped out maybe 75-100 feet higher up than currently proposed without increasing the height of the spire?

[TechTalkGuy]

You know, the more I look at the design, the more I think the spire is too tall. I wonder if it would look better if the actual building topped out maybe 75-100 feet higher up than currently proposed without increasing the height of the spire?

So http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y217/mr-fish/Miscellaneous/q.gifhttp://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y217/mr-fish/Miscellaneous/q.gifhttp://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y217/mr-fish/Miscellaneous/q.gif

As far as I'm concerned, this tower will be the Philadelphia edition of New York's Freedom Tower.

It would be awesome to have a tall spire at Philadelphia's highest point.

[skyscraper]

Question: If I did call a meeting of skyscraper enthusiasts from this thread, let’s say for Friday , April 28th at North Bowl in NoLis, who would come?

wow, you're forming a fanclub about me? how flattering...;)

[TechTalkGuy]

wow, you're forming a fanclub about me? how flattering...;)

Oh geesh, I tried doing a fan gathering some time back - but you know what?

No one cared.

I used to be very active here.

When people stop caring, people give up.

[skyscraper]

Oh geesh, I tried doing a fan gathering some time back - but you know what?

No one cared.

I used to be very active here.

When people stop caring, people give up.

relax, it was a joke.
I care, that's why I entered the profession, specifically to work on skyscrapers. hence my screen name.
what exactly do you hope to accomplish by meeting? are you thinking of forming a group similar to the design advocacy group? do you want to oppose nimbys? that would be a worthy goal right there. the imby's.
I don't mind getting together over a few hundred beers and talking skyscrapers and architecture in general. but if there is a course of action to be taken I'd like to know what it is.

[williamphilapa]

http://aycu06.webshots.com/image/49685/2005071721517276189_rs.jpg (http://allyoucanupload.webshots.com/v/2005071721517276189)
Original photo Matt Johnson

[skyscraper]

http://aycu36.webshots.com/image/46675/2000921280466445495_rs.jpg (http://allyoucanupload.webshots.com/v/2000921280466445495)
Original photo Matt Johnson

the funny thing about that photo is that comcast and murano are still under construction, while acc is completed. talk about fast tracking acc!

[Busy Bee]

Well I can fake a diagram using one of the renders and that very diagram search:

http://img81.imageshack.us/img81/3268/accdiagramze1.jpg

Looks like you used that image of the first Trump Tower Chicago design for part of the base.http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/images/smilies/wink.gif If I am right blink twice.

[bluemartini]

Well I can fake a diagram using one of the renders and that very diagram search:

http://img81.imageshack.us/img81/3268/accdiagramze1.jpg
Puppy stands right up to Jin Mao and destroys ESB! IMO ACC looks way more impressive when you're honest about the height of all the buildings. They actually minimized the impact of ACC because they exaggerated the proportions of the spire and made the building itself look smaller.

But enough picking on that illustration.. this proposal is quite impressive. Crossing my fingers for ya, philly.


Looking at your diagram (thanks for doing that) I like ACC even more. It's big. Okay - let's build it.

[slow-v6]

You should do that diagram of acc next to a diagram of CC and Verizon tower.. Look how small those two Giants look compared to acc!!

[FlyersFan118]

http://aycu06.webshots.com/image/49685/2005071721517276189_rs.jpg (http://allyoucanupload.webshots.com/v/2005071721517276189)
Original photo Matt Johnson

That was EASILY the best view of the skyline before Comcast was built, and it still is now IMO, but man, how sweet does it get there?

It's funny, because you can see the shift of the center of the skyline west. The focal point used to be One Liberty Place, and it moved a little further west with Comcast being built, and here ACC becomes the focal point and OLP is off on the side a little more.

Wow. I never thought I'd live to see 1000 here, but 1500? This is a great time for Philly.

[skyscraper]

It's funny, because you can see the shift of the center of the skyline west. The focal point used to be One Liberty Place, and it moved a little further west with Comcast being built, and here ACC becomes the focal point and OLP is off on the side a little more.


cira development will continue to push the skyline even farther west. then the waterfront developments will push it east. that should counteract the tendency to cluster in the center. Chicago does this nicely also, spreading out rather than just clustering.

I'm also noticing that from this angle, acc looks like the prow of a ship coming toward you. Ayn Rand had Frank Lloyd Wright design her a house with a similar theme, although it was never built.

[SJPhillyBoy]

http://aycu06.webshots.com/image/49685/2005071721517276189_rs.jpg (http://allyoucanupload.webshots.com/v/2005071721517276189)
Original photo Matt Johnson

Fantastic rendering, except I think the spire is pointng in the wrong direction based on the below model.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v191/Ninjawho/ACC1.jpg

[skyscraper]

Fantastic rendering, except I think the spire is pointng in the wrong direction based on the below model.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v191/Ninjawho/ACC1.jpg

excellent call. in the model, the spire is facing southeast, but in the rendering it is facing southwest.
not criticizing mj, the rendering still excites the imagination, just a technical point.

[Swinefeld]

From the Friday print edition of the Philadelphia Business Journal
http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e388/Swinefeld/New%20Constructon/ACC_sm.jpg

[russbaseball]

^^^
wow! that looks amazing!!!!!

[Ninjawho]

I concur...that bad boy's going on page one...

[skyscraper]

damn, from that viewpoint it obliterates one lib from sight and makes city hall recede into the background.

[Don098]

From the Friday print edition of the Philadelphia Business Journal
http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e388/Swinefeld/New%20Constructon/ACC_sm.jpg

I'm so glad the spire faces that direction. It looks like art and draws attention to the Art Museum, boathouse row and the waterworks.

[Don098]

You know, from that angle, it doesn't look out of scale, either.

[BANKofMANHATTAN]

Yowsa! Way to go Philadelphia!

[KevinFromTexas]

It's really kind of appropriate when you think about it that this building resembles the original design of the Freedom Tower - the Statue of Liberty inspired one.

[williamphilapa]

I repointed the spire to the southeast instead of southwest.

http://aycu35.webshots.com/image/48874/2003363035175266583_rs.jpg (http://allyoucanupload.webshots.com/v/2003363035175266583)

[bryson662001]

Same view as PBJ but in daylight instead of twilight. This one is from the Metro Newspaper.
http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k50/bryson662001/front7.jpg

[kraggman]

Slap this guy in a frame and ..... voila !! Instant Philly art !!


From the Friday print edition of the Philadelphia Business Journal
http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e388/Swinefeld/New%20Constructon/ACC_sm.jpg



:tup:

[TheMeltyMan]

Oh shit, I just heard about this on Digg. Fucking hell this is a nice addition to the city. Maybe Philly can somehow assert itself as a green, ecologically friendly city and lead the US in LEED design. I doubt it, but it could make for some good city marketing.

[russbaseball]

threw this together today. photo kudos goes to phillyskyline.com

http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n72/russbaseball/Untitled-1.jpg

[russbaseball]

now that im lookin at it.. look s like i made the spier too short. ill mess around w it more later.

[Late1]

That's an excellent start, though - nice work.

I think that vantage point on the Belmont and the South St Bridge angle will be hands down the 2 best skyline views if ACC is built.

[ItsConanOBrien]

I think this is very awesome.

[STR]

Design is extremely clunky, looks like something I'd come up with after 5 miuntes of playing with 3D Studio Max. The top needs to be played around with quite a bit, however I'm not sure how you can make the spire work while standing on the apex of the slanted roof. It's at the apex to add as much height as possible (obviously), but it makes the building look unbalanced.

Still, this is the early stages. Both Chicago Spire and 1WTC went through several reworks before reaching final configuration, and both had versions vastly worse than this. At least this building works as a concept. Definitely wasn't expecting this one though.

[Swinefeld]

New building would leave Comcast Center behind
by solomon d. leach / metro philadelphia
MAR 18, 2008

CENTER CITY. New York, eat your heart out.

Development firm Walnut Street Capital is proposing a new skyscraper that would surpass the Big Apple’s Empire State Building and be the tallest building in the country at 1,500 feet.

The $800 million 63-story project, named American Commerce Center, would include a hotel, office space and retail space with underground
parking right next to the Comcast Center, which is currently the city’s tallest building.

Metro spoke to Garrett Miller, the firm’s president, about the proposed tower.

How do you expect to fill the office space with low current vacancy rates?
The market will continue to tighten and, at some point, when you get under 8 percent vacancy rates, you typically see rents start to spike up. We think that over the next year or so, barring any disasters in the economy, we’ll continue to see rents push up in Philadelphia. We’re starting to see them in pushing up to the point where new development is possible.

What’s the reason for a building this big?

We wanted to squeeze in as much retail that would basically engage Philadelphia at street-level. It’s designed to be an iconic building…it’s designed to be sort of a symbol of what Philadelphia is becoming. It’s a symbol of our hopes and aspirations.

What are the chances of this building being approved at its current height?

We’ve engaged the neighborhood and community in a dialogue. I think thus far response has been positive. There’ve been some concerns and we expected that…We’re confident, but there’s still a process that needs to be gone through.

[williamphilapa]

"New York, eat your heart out."
:previous:

:haha: silly reporter's

[TechTalkGuy]

I hope this tower gets built so bad !!

Chicago gets attention for their Sears Tower.

New York gets attention for the Empire State Building.

Imagine if Philadelphia got attention for a tall tower.

Any critics who suggests that this sort of idea is "silly" being that my city is taller than yours - well, that's city pride !!

I'd say, build as tall as you can go. :banana:

[Don098]

Design is extremely clunky, looks like something I'd come up with after 5 miuntes of playing with 3D Studio Max.

...So what international architectural firm do you belong to?

[williamphilapa]

2up :previous:

When I said "silly reporter's"...I should have explained, I just think it's bad way to start the article off "New York, eat your heart out" since the FT is currently under construction and based on the surrounding circumstances on why it is being built...well, you get the picture.

Besides, this tower has nothing to do with NYC, except to possibly lure New York business to it :)

I think it would've been better to start it off as..."New Philly tower proposal, if built will be among the worlds tallest."

To each his own though.

[aeathin2]

Development firm Walnut Street Capital is proposing a new skyscraper that would surpass the Big Apple’s Empire State Building and be the tallest building in the country at 1,500 feet.

Sears tower roof height - 1451 ft, Antenna height - 1730 ft.
ACC roof height - 1200 ft, spire height - 1500 ft.

hmm

This is great for Philly, but I guess it is hard for some people out east to realize there are another 3 timezones in this country.

[Muji]

I wouldn't worry too much about the current renderings of ACC's tower. If you'll remember, the Comcast Center went through a multitude of designs before the final product, which IMO is by far the best of them all.

[ltsmotorsport]

Guess I haven't been paying enough attention but this really came outta nowhere anyway. Sounds solid enough to be built too. Good luck Philly! :cheers:

[Chriss]

Antennae usually are not counted in building height, while spires are.

A technicality, I know, but ACC would be taller than Sears.

[SkyWatcher]

I hope it gets built....it's a great tower but it will never be the country's tallest....guess that writer hasn't heard of the Chicago Spire yet.

[highdensity32]

Antennae usually are not counted in building height, while spires are.

A technicality, I know, but ACC would be taller than Sears.

Why is it that a spire counts towards height and antennae do not?

[Cro Burnham]

[b]Metro spoke to Garrett Miller, the firm’s president, about the proposed tower . . . . We think that over the next year or so, barring any disasters in the economy . . .

Am I missing something or have we not slipped into recession?

[slow-v6]

isnt it that spires are extentions of the building were antennas are addons for tv and broadcasting??

[123lilsmoo]

Holy Moly!!!

I cannot believe it. It's about time we broke the 1000 ft. mark. And what a way to do it; this is not your ordinary suppertall, it's going to be in an elite group at 1500 ft. I couldn't fall asleep. I Just returned from NYC this weekend, whining that we'll never get that big. I come home and KABAM!!

Finally, we can be looked at as one of the great metro's of the US. I pray that this building doesn't get any rejections. Those people have to remember that this is one of the largest cities in the US. If you don't want buildings this large around your neighborhood, then you shouldn't be living in center city. Besides, it's only one block from the other Giant, the Comcast Center.

If they refuse this building, forget any kind of real growth, ever!!! We'll be a HO-HUM town instead of a BOO-YA metropolis. But I heard the Mayor is Gung-Ho on this project and so is the Govenor.

Finally, I would like to say this to those other cities who are happy for us: Thank you from the bottom of our heart (Brotherly Love).
To those who have something negative to say: Envy is one of the seven deadly sins (No love for a brother)

[bucks native]

threw this together today. photo kudos goes to phillyskyline.com

http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n72/russbaseball/Untitled-1.jpg

Hot shot!

If that red building near Cira is Mantua Hall, if it hasn't already, it's about to be imploded.

[kraggman]

isnt it that spires are extentions of the building were antennas are addons for tv and broadcasting??

Correct. A spire is an actual part of the buildings permanent structure.
Antennae could be removed if necessary.

[skyscraper]

Antennae usually are not counted in building height, while spires are.

A technicality, I know, but ACC would be taller than Sears.

for the third time, I will delineate the calculations for building heights as defined by the council on tall buildings and urban habitat.
there are 4 categories:
1-highest roof
2-tip of spire
3-tip of broadcast antenna
4- highest occupied floor

for a time, sears was the tallest building in the world in 2 of the 4 categories, highest roof and occupied floor. then they replaced the antennae with higher ones for high def broadcasting, so it became the tallest in 3 of the 4 categories. since it has no spire, that it the best it could ever do.
acc will have a spire under the current proposal, so you calculate its highest point at the tip of that. but to compare apples to apples, you can use the roof and highest floor to see how it does compared to other buildings.

[bryson662001]

Am I missing something or have we not slipped into recession?
How do you know that and who exactly is "we"?

[Swinefeld]

Holy Moly!!!

I cannot believe it. It's about time we broke the 1000 ft. mark. And what a way to do it; this is not your ordinary suppertall, it's going to be in an elite group at 1500 ft. I couldn't fall asleep. I Just returned from NYC this weekend, whining that we'll never get that big. I come home and KABAM!!

Finally, we can be looked at as one of the great metro's of the US. I pray that this building doesn't get any rejections. Those people have to remember that this is one of the largest cities in the US. If you don't want buildings this large around your neighborhood, then you shouldn't be living in center city. Besides, it's only one block from the other Giant, the Comcast Center.

If they refuse this building, forget any kind of real growth, ever!!! We'll be a HO-HUM town instead of a BOO-YA metropolis. But I heard the Mayor is Gung-Ho on this project and so is the Govenor.

Finally, I would like to say this to those other cities who are happy for us: Thank you from the bottom of our heart (Brotherly Love).
To those who have something negative to say: Envy is one of the seven deadly sins (No love for a brother)
I love how projects like this and Comcast Center bring out the lurkers. Welcome aboard!

"Who's "we", sucker?"

"Smith, and Wesson, and me."

Bryson, We are the people of the United States. Recession is a technical term; two consecutive quarters of negative GDP. I don't think we far from that happening.

[Nowhereman1280]

...So what international architectural firm do you belong to?

Click on the links in his signature and you will see exactly how talented he is...

[wanderer34]

Slap this guy in a frame and ..... voila !! Instant Philly art !!






:tup:

Two words.....BUILD IT!!!

Seriously, Philly needs this like the city needs an extensive subway system, more Greeks and Italians, a Stanley Cup championship parade on Broad St, and like I need Kim Kardashian!!! :yes: Besides, even though Phila needed Comcast to stay in the city, ther building is a major dissapointment in a lot of ways.

[Dream'n]

Looks like the original World Trade Center has sex with the future Freedom Tower and this was the result.

It looks to be about 1,125' to the roof with a 375' spire.


Hit the nail on the head.

Nice height but not a fan of the design.

Not dissing the city.

[sciguy0504]

As has been said before, building large developments is preferred in poor economic times as it is cheaper and, the thinking goes, they will be finished when the economy gains steam.

Under the current timeline, ACC will start construction in 2009 and wrap up in 2012. No one knows whether or not the economy will be bad in 2012. Developments always carry some risk but I think ACC has a lot going for it: nearly single-digit commercial vacancy space, much-needed retail space and hotel space and it's definitely an iconic building for Philly. Don't forget financing is not through banks but through a well financed Washington State pension fund.

[giamomj]

As far as I remember from the multitude of posts on this forum: spires count as part of the final overall height of a skyscraper - antennas do not. If that info is accurate - then ACC will indeed surpass the Sears Tower.

Gia

:notacrook:

[dovate]

for the third time, I will delineate the calculations for building heights as defined by the council on tall buildings and urban habitat.
there are 4 categories:

So why doesn't Philly just stick the tallest of the Roxborough Towers on Billy Penn's hat? With a 1276 foot tower on a 548 foot building, City Hall would proudly stand at over 1800'.

[TheOldMan]

can someone add this to the Philadelphia diagram as a proposal. i would except i have no skill when it comes to these things...

[Don098]

Click on the links in his signature and you will see exactly how talented he is...

I browsed his stuff...not sure I get what he/she does? Just re-create models of past buildings, or is there original thought behind that stuff?

[Ninjawho]

I don't mean to sound like a mod or anyting but lets try to keep discussion on topic concerning the ACC not the rendering skill of other members...


I've been browsing the diagram section too to see if someone had completed one yet...the sooner the better :)

[Don098]

Same view as PBJ but in daylight instead of twilight. This one is from the Metro Newspaper.
http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k50/bryson662001/front7.jpg

It might be cool to move this to the front page also...

[theo van gogh]

I can barely draw a stick figure, so can one of the more talented forumers please make a rendering of the ACC as it would appear from the steps of the Art Museum? Since this is my fave view of the skyline, I'm curious to see where/how it would appear and which building(s) it would obscure.

....I know most people prefer the view from the South Street bridge, but to me - the view down the Parkway is much classier. Just sayin.

[stormkingfan]

[QUOTE=fish;3424717]I hope this tower gets built so bad !!

Now, what a thing to say, wanting a badly-built tower to be built!....

Just playin' widya.:jester:

[kraggman]

[QUOTE=fish;3424717]I hope this tower gets built so bad !!

Now, what a thing to say, wanting a badly-built tower to be built!....

Just playin' widya.:jester:

No drinking allowed in this forum. ;)

[slow-v6]

So why doesn't Philly just stick the tallest of the Roxborough Towers on Billy Penn's hat? With a 1276 foot tower on a 548 foot building, City Hall would proudly stand at over 1800'.

Your Fired!!

[10023]

delete

[10023]

That is closer, however, the roof height of the Sears Tower is 38 feet shorter than the spires of the Petronas Towers. In that view the Petronas Towers spires are much higher compared with the Sears.

38 feet wouldn't be "much higher" even if spire height vs. roof height was a legitimate comparison, which it's not.

This building is an OK design, if a little bland and similar to the (very weak) Freedom Tower design. But it's in the same weight class as Trump Tower, not the Sears Tower. Still very cool for Philly, though - and I'm usually not a fan of spires, but I guess it works for the location. Philly has always been "spired".

[volguus zildrohar]

Two words.....BUILD IT!!!

Seriously, Philly needs this like the city needs an extensive subway system, more Greeks and Italians, a Stanley Cup championship parade on Broad St, and like I need Kim Kardashian!!! :yes: Besides, even though Phila needed Comcast to stay in the city, ther building is a major dissapointment in a lot of ways.

This is so off topic but What?!

[apetrella802]

Two Primary Forces Converge to bring about the Skyscraper:

The primal human compulsion to build a towering structure that dominates the landscape and asserts Man’s power to shape the world to his vision, i.e., Tower of Babel.

The need to multiply the value of land that arose from the economic activity and pattern of living in densely populated industrialized cities of America in the late 19th and early 20th centuries.

The four most important technological prerequisites for the skyscrape(IMO) are:

The saftey elevator(1852/1856)
Economical production of structural steel(Siemans/Martin c. 1880)
Fire proofing material for steel frame(c. 1875, porous terracotta tiles))
water pumps(c. 1860s)

So, why do we all feel so strongly about the hieght of buildings and in particular why are we so excited about the possibilty of a 1500 feet high ACC. I think its in our genes, that is its a primal compulsion.

[SJPhillyBoy]

I think its in our genes, that is its a primal compulsion.
At least for the individuals that frequent SSP.

[Don098]

Two Primary Forces Converge to bring about the Skyscraper:

The primal human compulsion to build a towering structure that dominates the landscape and asserts Man’s power to shape the world to his vision, i.e., Tower of Babel.

The need to multiply the value of land that arose from the economic activity and pattern of living in densely populated industrialized cities of America in the late 19th and early 20th centuries.

The four most important technological prerequisites for the skyscrape(IMO) are:

The saftey elevator(1852/1856)
Economical production of structural steel(Siemans/Martin c. 1880)
Fire proofing material for steel frame(c. 1875, porous terracotta tiles))
water pumps(c. 1860s)

So, why do we all feel so strongly about the hieght of buildings and in particular why are we so excited about the possibilty of a 1500 feet high ACC. I think its in our genes, that is its a primal compulsion.

I agree, but I'd add that I want a tall tower not because it surpasses an arbitrary height threshold of 1,000 feet - a height that wouldn't be a benchmark in the rest of the world's system of measurement. It's because the skyline will have something to anchor it and announce itself to an international community. Hopefully it will reduce PA's brain drain by luring young people back into the city instead of leaving for places like Washington, D.C., NYC, California and the Pacific NW, etc. Hopefully it will continue to reawaken a city that has ironically become myopic in the face of its progressive beginnings (declaration of independence anyone?). Hopefully it will add to a growing revolution that will revitalize downtowns and reverse the 70s' white flight into the suburbs where unsustainable suburbanization is already beginning to strain our nation's economy. Hopefully it will accelerate the trend of building green in Philadelphia so that someday we might be able to call ourselves the Portland of the East Coast. Taxes from this building and the ones that will spurt up in its wake will allow us to refocus on our biggest issues like education, crime reductions, transportation reform (SEPTA needs an upheaval), and healthier lifestyles among others. These are the building blocks of a great city. Philly already has plenty of history and character to draw from. The problem is, many people outside our world don't know about them. People think of cheesesteaks, snowballs, Rocky, and the Liberty Bell when they think of Philadelphia. They don't always know that we have one of the best orchestras in the world, some of the best medicine, law, and business firms in the country. We have the most selective and arguably the best classical musical school in the world: The Curtis Institute of Music, it's not Julliard folks. They don't always know that the Art Museum is actually that, a world-class museum and not just the backdrop for Rocky. The nation's first zoo. The country's largest city park. The neighborhoods of Society Hill, Rittenhouse Square, South and West Philadelphia. Manayunk, Chestnut Hill, etc. etc. Reading Terminal Market and the plethora of restaurants. I mean the list goes on and on...

I'm ready for that list to be cited by people not just from Philadelphia, but from around the country and around the world someday. That's why I think building height is transcendently powerful. That's why it's so god damn important to me.

[Swinefeld]

WSC is trying to lure clients from outside the city. And is Mr. DiStefano coming around to this project?

Developer dangles carrot for Philadelphia tower

By Joseph N. DiStefano
INQUIRER STAFF WRITER

Joseph Grasso knows Philadelphia real estate pros and other developers are skeptical of his proposal for a 1,500-foot-tall, 2.2-million-square-foot tower at 18th and Arch Streets.

There's a recession. Banks aren't lending. He'd need new zoning, and agreeable neighbors. Big corporate tenants are so scarce that Center City Class A office rents, after inflation, have been stagnant or worse for 20 years.

"They're all good questions," said Grasso, founder of Walnut Street Capital L.L.C., which hopes to build the tower with backing from the Multi-Employer Property Trust, a labor union-oriented national landlord based in Washington whose Seattle affiliate helped Walnut buy the block last year.

Echoing a developers' lament heard often in Northeastern cities, Grasso said the project could work if he persuaded enough companies to relocate from New York, where rents last year approached $100 a square foot, to Philadelphia, where high-end rents - and the threshold developers say rents will have to pass to make would-be office projects pay - hovers in the mid-$30s.

Walnut has been pursuing investors and tenants in and beyond Philadelphia, said zoning lawyer Peter Kelsen of Blank Rome L.L.P., who represents Walnut and MEPT's asset-management affiliate. He will not name names. "We'll know in the next six to eight months," Grasso said.

In its other Center City project, Walnut has been replaced as property manager at Curtis Square, confirmed Jon Diat, spokesman for Citigroup Property Investments, Walnut's limited partner at the project.

"We made a collective decision, and it was a hard decision, to bring CB Richard Ellis in to manage the property," Grasso said. Citi felt, "and I agreed," that, as a national firm, CBRE could better sell the Curtis and Public Ledger buildings to "the big boys."

Grasso said he was still general partner at Curtis, and the buildings are more than 95 percent leased, with recent rents topping $27 a square foot.

He said it had paid off to put the buildings under new management. When they were separately owned, "they competed against each other," cutting rates to lure tenants. "Now, we don't fight each other."

Link (http://www.philly.com/philly/business/breaking/20080319_Developer_dangles_carrot_for_Philadelphia_tower.html?text=xlg)

[Capsule F]

Pretty good read there, I would prefer if they had a tenant lined up. But this is as good as it gets for not having a tenant lined up this instant, I still have a pretty good feeling about this. This would be a huge signature for a company, and I think they would like that.

[Philly-Drew]

If there was a tenant lined up then there would be a huge amount of pressure to get this building built. Just imagine some fortune 500 company ready to sign up for a lease. That type of news would be really big.

Thank you everyone for the pictures and renderings presented on this thread so far.

[MiamiSpartan]

This would be a great addition to the Philly skyline. I always thought it was kind of undersized for a city of that population, and these recent additions would bring it up to the big leagues....

Everyone light some candles....:)

[BigDan35]

This would be a great addition to the Philly skyline. I always thought it was kind of undersized for a city of that population, and these recent additions would bring it up to the big leagues....

Everyone light some candles....:)

Undersized? I don't think so. Take a look at other cities with the same population or close to the same and I think Philly beats all of them out.

[bucks native]

Next at DAG

The American Commerce Center – the proposed new 63 story skyscraper at 18th and Arch – will be presented at DAG at our next monthly meeting on Thursday, April 3, 8AM at Temple University Center City (1515 Market Street). Garrett Miller, the President of Walnut Street Capital and architects Bill Louie and Lloyd Sigal of Kohn Pederson Fox, will make the presentation.

DAG member Brad Maule probably has the most comprehensive description of the proposed American Commerce Center skyscraper at 18th and Arch around. Go to his website, www.phillyskyline.com, to learn more.

--
Christopher Jurek
Webmaster
Design Advocacy Group
www.designadvocacy.org
dagwebmaster@gmail.com

[Don098]

Next at DAG

The American Commerce Center – the proposed new 63 story skyscraper at 18th and Arch – will be presented at DAG at our next monthly meeting on Thursday, April 3, 8AM at Temple University Center City (1515 Market Street). Garrett Miller, the President of Walnut Street Capital and architects Bill Louie and Lloyd Sigal of Kohn Pederson Fox, will make the presentation.

DAG member Brad Maule probably has the most comprehensive description of the proposed American Commerce Center skyscraper at 18th and Arch around. Go to his website, www.phillyskyline.com, to learn more.

--
Christopher Jurek
Webmaster
Design Advocacy Group
www.designadvocacy.org
dagwebmaster@gmail.com

Nice

[Spocket]

Hmmmm...where oh where have I seen this before ? It seems oddly familiar ...:shrug:

Mind you, I do happen to like that tower. And I also happen to like the idea that Philly could see it built. I'm just pointing out that it looks an awful lot like a mix of two versions of the Freedom Tower.

Anyway, I'm not trying to rain on the parade. Kudos Philly...hope you get this one. Definitely a lot of big changes happening there and they're all positive from what I can see. :tup:

[Chriss]

I agree, but I'd add that I want a tall tower not because it surpasses an arbitrary height threshold of 1,000 feet - a height that wouldn't be a benchmark in the rest of the world's system of measurement. It's because the skyline will have something to anchor it and announce itself to an international community. Hopefully it will reduce PA's brain drain by luring young people back into the city instead of leaving for places like Washington, D.C., NYC, California and the Pacific NW, etc. Hopefully it will continue to reawaken a city that has ironically become myopic in the face of its progressive beginnings (declaration of independence anyone?). Hopefully it will add to a growing revolution that will revitalize downtowns and reverse the 70s' white flight into the suburbs where unsustainable suburbanization is already beginning to strain our nation's economy. Hopefully it will accelerate the trend of building green in Philadelphia so that someday we might be able to call ourselves the Portland of the East Coast. Taxes from this building and the ones that will spurt up in its wake will allow us to refocus on our biggest issues like education, crime reductions, transportation reform (SEPTA needs an upheaval), and healthier lifestyles among others. These are the building blocks of a great city. Philly already has plenty of history and character to draw from. The problem is, many people outside our world don't know about them. People think of cheesesteaks, snowballs, Rocky, and the Liberty Bell when they think of Philadelphia. They don't always know that we have one of the best orchestras in the world, some of the best medicine, law, and business firms in the country. We have the most selective and arguably the best classical musical school in the world: The Curtis Institute of Music, it's not Julliard folks. They don't always know that the Art Museum is actually that, a world-class museum and not just the backdrop for Rocky. The nation's first zoo. The country's largest city park. The neighborhoods of Society Hill, Rittenhouse Square, South and West Philadelphia. Manayunk, Chestnut Hill, etc. etc. Reading Terminal Market and the plethora of restaurants. I mean the list goes on and on...

I'm ready for that list to be cited by people not just from Philadelphia, but from around the country and around the world someday. That's why I think building height is transcendently powerful. That's why it's so god damn important to me.

Hear! Hear!

Well said!!!