[mr.x]

Makes the APC's demands quite miniscule doesn't it?

The COC and federal government certainly can't boycott our athletes from participating this summer since we're hosting 2010, and I'm quite sure the provincial government wouldn't want that either with the Asia-Pacific trade initiative and the $15-million spent on the B.C.-Canada pavilion at Tiananmen Square.

And btw, this is what Beijing looked like today (sandstorm):
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2118/2341964101_f550175646.jpg

The IOC has major pollution concerns, and is currently revising the competition schedule. It is possible that even with Beijing's attempts to cut down its pollution by shutting down factories, moving factories and power plants away from the city, banning millions of cars from the road during the Games...that all this still won't be enough. Athletes, like the cyclists and marathoners, are considering skipping the Games altogether as breathing the air in Beijing while pushing their bodies to their limit could cause permanent damage to their lungs. Other athletes, also in other sports, are planning to wear masks while competing. Beijing has claimed that pollution has decreased, but it should also be noted that pollution monitors have also been moved away from the city where there is less pollution.

Then, there's the recent crackdowns and media censorship. The People's Liberation Army and police forces have killed at least 100 Tibetan protesters, and the government has also blocked off any media coverage even though last year, they had promised that the media would be given greater freedoms to broadcast in China from January 2008 to October 2008. They have not met that promise, and have restricted the international community from broadcasting the Tibetan crackdown....internet videos have also been removed.

This is all happening just days before the Olympic flame is lit in Greece, commencing the Beijing 2008 Olympic Torch Relay. And one funny thing they did was banning climbs up Mt. Everest for fears that protesters may disrupt the torch relay's ascend up to the peak in a few weeks.

All of this is has led to talk about boycotts around the world. Some are even proposing a boycott of just the Opening & Closing Ceremonies, which will no doubt be grand and perhaps even a propaganda megaphone for the Chinese gov't.





Photo evidence of Tibet horror comes to light

GEOFFREY YORK
From Wednesday's Globe and Mail

March 18, 2008 at 10:23 PM EDT

BEIJING — Gruesome new photos showing Tibetans shot to death in Western China have provided fresh evidence of a Chinese crackdown on Tibetan protesters as the Dalai Lama threatens to resign if the violence spirals out of control.

The photos (many of them too graphic to publish) appear to show bullet holes in the blood-stained corpses of several Tibetans in China's Sichuan province. They are the first hard evidence that Tibetans were shot to death during the Chinese security crackdown in recent days.

Nearly 100 Tibetans have been killed in the crackdown, including 19 yesterday, and hundreds more have been arrested, according to Tibetan activist groups. China says 16 people were killed by Tibetan rioters in Lhasa last week, and it alleges that the Dalai Lama has "masterminded" the violence.

Chinese Prime Minister Wen Jiabao took a hard-line stand on the conflict yesterday, accusing the "Dalai clique" of inciting the violence in a plot to "undermine" the Beijing Olympics this summer.

The Dalai Lama called for peace by both sides. "If things become out of control, then my only option is to completely resign," he told a news conference yesterday at the headquarters of his exiled government in northern India.

A spokesman said the Dalai Lama was referring to his political role as head of the exiled government, not his religious role as the Tibetan spiritual leader. "As a monk, he cannot compromise on non-violence," said Thubten Samphel, secretary for information and international relations at the Tibetan government-in-exile.

"If the mainstream Tibetan movement resorts to violence as a means to resolve issues, he will step down from the political leadership of the Tibetan people," the spokesman said in a telephone interview from India.

In Sichuan province, which borders Tibet, up to 20 Tibetans were killed by security agents who opened fire on protesters this week, according to Tibetan activist groups. They provided the names of nine dead protesters, along with other personal details of most of them.

The grisly photos showed the naked or semi-naked corpses of Tibetans covered in blood, with severe wounds visible. Most seemed to have bullet holes in their heads, arms or chests. They were available on the website of the Tibetan Centre for Human Rights and Democracy, but their authenticity could not be confirmed.

"The important thing about these photos is that they clearly show people who were shot," said Robert Barnett, a Tibet expert at Columbia University in New York.

He noted that China has never alleged the Tibetans have used guns, and there have been no independent reports of guns among the Tibetans, so the bullet wounds could only have come from the Chinese side.

"This does look like the first concrete evidence of security forces killing demonstrators," Mr. Barnett said in an interview. "It seems to show that the Chinese authorities opened fire with an intent to kill. It's the first time that we've seen the Tibetans documenting what is happening and giving us an accurate picture of what's happening."

Protests continued to erupt in Tibetan regions of Western China yesterday, and even on the outskirts of Lhasa. The exiled government said 19 Tibetan protesters were killed by security forces in Gansu province yesterday.

Another report said nearly 1,000 Tibetans have been arrested in house-to-house sweeps by security agents in Lhasa, where thousands of military and paramilitary troops have occupied the Tibetan capital.

Journalists have been barred from entering any of the Tibetan regions, despite Chinese promises to allow free movement of journalists in this Olympic year.

Comments by the Dalai Lama yesterday could be a "major signal" of his willingness to resume negotiations with the Chinese government, despite the intense emotions of the past several days, Mr. Barnett said. "I think it's pretty important. The Dalai Lama is signalling that he's leaving the door open to negotiations."

Mr. Wen's comments, however, seemed to leave little hope for compromise, Mr. Barnett said. "The Chinese seem to be moving to a very hard-line position," Mr. Barnett said.

The Dalai Lama ridiculed China's allegation that he had "masterminded" the violent protests in Lhasa last week. In fact, China might have used secret agents to instigate the violence to discredit him, he said. "It's possible some Chinese agents are involved there. Sometimes totalitarian regimes are very clever, so it is important to investigate." But he also added: "We must build good relations with the Chinese. We should not develop anti-Chinese feelings. We must live together side by side."

The Dalai Lama's representatives have held annual talks with mid-level Chinese officials since 2002, but no significant progress has been made. Many younger Tibetans in the exile community have complained that the Dalai Lama's moderate policy — the so-called "Middle Way" — has failed to achieve any results, and they argue for a more aggressive push for an independent Tibet.





The Beijing blunder

By Philip Hersh

You think the International Olympic Committee is at least beginning to wonder whether giving the 2008 Olympics to Beijing was a mistake?

China's reportedly brutal crackdown on current protests in Tibet makes a mockery of the rationale that giving the Games to Beijing would encourage progress in the areas of openness of expression and human rights, a rationale many IOC members used in defense of their 2001 choice to let a dictatorial regime have the Summer Games.

Openness? Hah. The Chinese have banned ascents of Mount Everest during the time they are showing off by sending the Olympic torch to the top of the world's highest mountain, so worried are they that a climber might carry a "Free Tibet" banner. They black out CNN coverage of the Tibet crisis and block it on the Internet and have banned all foreign reporters from entering Tibet, despite Chinese government approval of regulations allowing free movement for journalists during a period from January, 2007, to October, 2008.

The IOC is being pressured to take some umbrage over China's actions, but its leaders are hiding behind the old canard that it isn't a political organization -- after making the entirely political choice to let Beijing have the Games rather than Toronto or Paris, both of which would have been better places for sports competition.

The IOC did speak Monday, issuing a report that said the air in Beijing really wasn't as bad as everyone thought.

Tuesday morning, a sandstorm hit the city, making the atmosphere "yellow and nasty," as Evan Osnos, the Tribune's Beijing correspondent, described it in a text message. Monday, just hours before the IOC said, "What, us worry?," Osnos walked to work and "felt terrible afterward ... from breathing too much particulate in the air."

Beijing normally does not have sandstorms in August, when the Olympics will take place, but the Chinese are making such a mess of the environment that anything is possible.

After all, sandstorms did not begin to torment Beijingers until the Chinese demand for lumber led them to cut down every tree between the city and the Gobi Desert. It also hasn't helped, as Osnos reported in a compelling story published Dec. 17, 2006, that the demand for cheap cashmere sweaters led to a huge increase in the number of cashmere goats, which have eaten grasslands bare and then clomped across the barren earth with hooves that send dust flying -- all the way to North America.

So this is what we have, less than five months before the Opening Ceremony: pollution and repression.

Having stood by silently for so long, the IOC now can do little about either. Cancelling the Games is not an option, and there would be nothing gained -- and little support -- for a decision by any country to boycott. A boycott would penalize the athletes involved and likely have little long-term affect on Chinese policies. A U.S. boycott would seem holier-than-thou anyway, given our treatment of prisoners at Guantanamo and Abu Ghirab and issues over domestic civil rights raised since 9/11.

But the IOC, which has a mandate to be holier-than-thou, can do something: it can take the higher ground the Olympics are supposed to stand on. It can criticize the Chinese for using stability as an excuse for brutality, for continuing to trade arms for blood oil in the Sudan, for the environmental devastation they are causing.

If the Chinese don't like it, too bad. I don't expect they will refuse to stage the Olympics because of such criticism. If they do, isn't that just more proof China shouldn't have been given them in the first place?

[quobobo]

There was a good piece on the National Post's blog about this, based on the following article: http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/03/18/asia/react.php

Jonathan Kay: At the very least, let's boycott the opening ceremonies in Beijing

Here's a good idea for punishing China: Send our athletes to the Olympics, but boycott the opening ceremonies.

Obviously, this would be a purely symbolic move. (Then again, even a full withdrawal from the Olympics would be "symbolic" in some sense, because, on a geopolitical level, the Olympics don't actually mean anything except barroom bragging rights.) But at least it would be a symbolic move that devastates Beijing's propaganda effort to turn the Olympics into a full-scale chest-thumping jamboree of Sino-nationalism. The message to the world that is supposed to come out of Beijing 2008 is that China is a respected and come-of-age member of the civilized world community. The message that would actually come out of the Olympics if we all boycotted the opening ceremonies would be: "You're still a brutal police state, and we're attending this thing with our noses pinched."

Of course, not all countries would boycott the opening ceremonies. Zambia and Iran would still be in the parade. But that would only make the gesture more effective: China's pals would be all lined up for the world to see — a motley assortment of rogue states and African basket cases reliant on Chinese aid.


-----------

Personally I'd be happy with this solution. Doesn't stop our athletes from participating, and it would be much easier to get other countries to do this with us (compared to a full boycott).

[mr.x]

China Might Bar Tiananmen Broadcasts
Unnerved by Protests, China Considers Barring Tiananmen Broadcasts During Olympics

By CHARLES HUTZLER Associated Press Writer
BEIJING Mar 21, 2008 (AP)

China might bar live television broadcasts from Tiananmen Square during the Beijing Olympics, apparently unnerved by the recent outburst of unrest among Tibetans and fearful of protests in the heart of the Chinese capital.

A ban on live broadcasts would wreck the plans of NBC and other major international networks, who have paid hundreds of millions of dollars to broadcast the Aug. 8-24 games and are counting on eye-pleasing live shots from the iconic square.

The rethinking of Beijing's earlier promise to broadcasters comes as the government has poured troops into Tibetan areas wracked by anti-government protests this month and stepped up security in cities, airports and entertainment venues far from the unrest.

In another sign of the government's unease, 400 American Boy Scouts who had been promised they could onto the field following a March 15 exhibition game between the Los Angeles Dodgers and San Diego Padres were prevented from doing so by police.

"It was never specifically mentioned to me it was because of Tibet that there were extra controls, but there were all these changes at the last minute," said a person involved in the Major League Baseball event who asked for anonymity because he was not authorized to speak to the media.

The communist government's resorting to heavy-handed measures runs the risk of undermining Beijing's pledge to the International Olympic Committee that the games would promote greater openness in what a generation ago was still an isolated China. If still in place by the games, they could alienate the half-million foreigners expected at the games.

Like the Olympics, live broadcasts from Tiananmen Square were meant to showcase a friendly, confident China — one that had put behind it the deadly 1989 military assault on democracy demonstrators in the vast plaza that remains a defining image for many foreigners.

"Tiananmen is the face of China, the face of Beijing so many broadcasters would like to do live or recorded coverage of the square," said Yosuke Fujiwara, the head of broadcast relations for the Beijing Olympic Broadcasting Co., or BOB, a joint-venture between Beijing Olympic organizers and an IOC subsidiary. BOB coordinates and provides technical services for the TV networks with rights to broadcast the Olympics, such as NBC.

Earlier this week, however, officials with the Beijing Olympics Organizing Committee, or BOCOG, told executives at BOB that the live shots were canceled, according to three people familiar with the matter who requested anonymity because they were not authorized to speak to the media

"We learned that standup positions would be canceled," one of these people said. "No explanation was given for the change."

Sun Weijia, the BOCOG official in charge of dealing with BOB, declined comment, referring the matter to press officers, three of whom also declined to comment. IOC offices were closed Friday for the Easter holiday; two spokeswomen did not immediately return e-mails and phone calls seeking comment.

The decision by BOCOG may not be final. The change was relayed verbally, one person said. All three hoped that IOC President Jacques Rogge and other leading IOC officials, expected in Beijing next month for regularly scheduled meetings, may be able to prevail on BOCOG to change its mind.

If the decision stands, it would be a blow to the TV networks whose money to buy the right to broadcast the games accounts for more than half the IOC's revenues. The biggest spender is NBC. It paid $2.3 billion for the rights for three Olympics from 2004 to 2008 — Athens, Turin and Beijing.

Officials at NBC refused to comment.

The unrest — which broke out March 10 in the Tibetan capital of Lhasa and has since spread across western China — and the government's harsh response underscores the communist leaders' unease as the Olympics approach.

With paramilitary police patrolling Beijing at night and journalists being expelled from Tibetan areas, security measures are on par with those not seen since the government mobilized police to crush the Falun Gong spiritual movement in 1999-2000.

Activist groups have said for months that they planned to use the Olympics to promote their causes. But the challenge faced by China's leadership seems to grow more imminent.

Aside from Tibet protests, the government said it foiled a plot this month by Muslim separatists in western China to blow up a China Southern Boeing 757. Foreign activists angry about China's support for Sudan, which is party to a civil war in Darfur, said this week they would demonstrate in Beijing during the games.

After the Icelandic singer Bjork shouted "Tibet!" at the finale of a Shanghai concert this month, officials ordered tighter scrutiny of all performances.

The Boy Scouts seemed to get caught in a response to both the sometimes violent Tibet protests and Bjork; police canceled all on-field entertainment for the exhibition baseball games, including the singing of the Chinese and U.S. national anthems.

BOCOG officials began signaling their discomfort with live broadcasts in Tiananmen Square to the IOC a year ago but discussions went back and forth, according to the people involved. The square — overlooked by a large portrait of communist founder Mao Zedong — has been a magnet for protests for decades.

[hollywoodnorth]

I hope the 2008 games goes down the crapper ;)

[dreambrother808]

^^^

yeah it might be the PR catastrophe that finally wakes China up to how much it needs to change.

[mr.x]

It's almost as if they think they are actually fooling somebody with all of this shit they're pulling out.....hopefully, the Games are a disaster and the IOC learns a thing or two. 2008 should've gone to Toronto or Paris.

[Lee_Haber8]

I'll personally be boycotting the games. I hope that our athletes and politicians do the wise the thing and show their outrage by boycotting the opening ceremonies. Let's all prove to the guys at Beijing and Xinhua that they are wrong when they say that it is only a few, 'extreme' individuals who will boycott these games.

[Nutterbug]

I'd like to see the Olympic athletes form a union, and start asserting some say in the assignment of the host cities and other important decisions of the IOC. Maybe then, they could elect to pull the games out of Beijing and hold it someplace else, without fearing losing that one shot and everything they've worked for by acting alone in a boycott.

[mr.x]

I'd like to see the Olympic athletes form a union, and start asserting some say in the assignment of the host cities and other important decisions of the IOC. Maybe then, they could elect to pull the games out of Beijing and hold it someplace else, without fearing losing that one shot and everything they've worked for by acting alone in a boycott.

Pull the Olympics out of Beijing, out of one of the world's economic superpowers, when there are just 5-months left until the Games actually start? When billions of dollars worth of sponsorship dollars and tv rights have already been invested?

It's not happening, there's no way it can be canceled nor is there time for another city to prepare.....i think the most we'll see is a boycott of the opening ceremonies, and some athletes deciding to opt out of the events.

[Nutterbug]

Pull the Olympics out of Beijing, out of one of the world's economic superpowers, when there are just 5-months left until the Games actually start? When billions of dollars worth of sponsorship dollars and tv rights have already been invested?

It's not happening, there's no way it can be canceled nor is there time for another city to prepare.....i think the most we'll see is a boycott of the opening ceremonies, and some athletes deciding to opt out of the events.

If they had the powers of a union, they could force the IOC's hand into delaying it till next year, or whenever and wherever more convenient and doable, couldn't they? (Likely do it at an alternate site that has hosted recently and has all the necessary infrastructure and facilities.)

Too late to organize and form one now, but that's probably an idea they should look at to counter some of the dumb decisions the IOC may make in the future and to stand up to them in their best interests.

[mr.x]

^ an athletes union??? o_O?? it would never happen.

[Nutterbug]

^ an athletes union??? o_O?? it would never happen.

If they are the best at their athletic endeavours, they can't be replaced easily, can they? Unite, and they'd have some pretty powerful leverage over the IOC.

[mr.x]

^ Beijing 2008 has been the only major problem for athletes in decades....the other being Moscow in 1980 (i think) and Munich 1972, with the terrorist attacks.

[Nutterbug]

^ Beijing 2008 has been the only major problem for athletes in decades....the other being Moscow in 1980 (i think) and Munich 1972, with the terrorist attacks.

Okay. They could still unite to fuss about other smaller minor issues on an ongoing basis though (scheduling, distribution of revenue, etc.). Maybe they can even take a stand against countries that mistreat and abuse their athletes in their development programs.

[deasine]

I hope the 2008 games goes down the crapper ;)

I hope the APC won't make a fool out of us either... :sly:

It's almost as if they think they are actually fooling somebody with all of this shit they're pulling out.....hopefully, the Games are a disaster and the IOC learns a thing or two. 2008 should've gone to Toronto or Paris.

Toronto? Then the games would most likely not come to Vancouver then :(

~~~~~

The fact that China is trying to cover up Tibetan protests (because apparently they ruin their reputation) isn't really helping their reputation at all, if not destroying it even more. China needs to actually open up a lot and change many of their policies (not forcefully doing it - a proper more democratic process) if it ever wants to change their reputation.

[jlousa]

I have a friend who is convinced the Tibet protests are tied with the Taiwan election. He claims Taiwan is going to seize the spotlight being on China and declare independence hoping China is too worried about losing the games that they'll let Taiwan go. Of course this friend has always been a conspiracy nut. But it is interesting that the US has moved 2 aircraft carriers into the area in the last few days.
Lets hope everything calms down, the last thing the world needs right now is more conflict. Especially something of that scale.

[mr.x]

I hope the APC won't make a fool out of us either... :sly:


Toronto? Then the games would most likely not come to Vancouver then :(


If Toronto won 2008, Canada wins....we need a lot more summer sport training facilities rather than more winter sport facilities. It would've been a huge national legacy. With Vancouver 2010, it's more of a local legacy....we already have winter sport venues in Calgary. The only thing we might have added is the sliding centre, nordic trails, and the ski jump.

Had Toronto won 2008 and we decided to bid for the 2022 Winter Games or something, there's a high probability that we would have still won. Afterall, we're a huge [and attractive] city and we're definitely capable of hosting the Winter Games.



While I don't agree with mainland China's policies, I do agree with their stance on how Taiwan is part of their country and that it is a "renegade province".....just like how Quebec would be a renegade province if it decided to split. Hopefully, we won't see a conflict [on a bright side though, we'd get lots of immigrants!]

But Tibet is a whole different story.

[Nutterbug]

I have a friend who is convinced the Tibet protests are tied with the Taiwan election. He claims Taiwan is going to seize the spotlight being on China and declare independence hoping China is too worried about losing the games that they'll let Taiwan go. Of course this friend has always been a conspiracy nut. But it is interesting that the US has moved 2 aircraft carriers into the area in the last few days.
Lets hope everything calms down, the last thing the world needs right now is more conflict. Especially something of that scale.

Let's instead hope that turmoil spreads throughout the country, and the PRC is brought to its long overdue demise.

[dreambrother808]

While I don't agree with mainland China's policies, I do agree with their stance on how Taiwan is part of their country and that it is a "renegade province".....just like how Quebec would be a renegade province if it decided to split. Hopefully, we won't see a conflict [on a bright side though, we'd get lots of immigrants!]


But are the limitations the Quebecois feel truly comparable to the repression of the Chinese government? Personally, I think that Quebec has the right to separate if that be the majority opinion within the province. This however is not the case. How do the majority of Taiwanese feel? Furthermore, if the majority opinion is overwhelming, then what right does a federal power have to hold an obviously unjust grip?

[Nutterbug]

While I don't agree with mainland China's policies, I do agree with their stance on how Taiwan is part of their country and that it is a "renegade province"
If I'm correct, most Taiwanese voted for the pro-independence party. What's more, an increasing number of Taiwanese are identifying as Taiwanese instead of Chinese. Time to finalize a divorce?

....just like how Quebec would be a renegade province if it decided to split.
Au revoir.

Heck, I'm all for Cascadian secession.

[deasine]

I have a feeling Taiwan might stay away from Tibetan protests just to improve their relationship with China.

[Nutterbug]

Why is China eyeing Taiwan so much. All the KMT dissidents and malcontents were exiled to it. Good f'ing riddance, right?

[twoNeurons]

It could be the fact that China was represented by Taiwan (according to the UN) for 20+ years. That could hurt one's reputation or pride.

Interestingly, previously Taiwan filed recently for independence as "Taiwan," as opposed to "Republic of China (Taiwan)" and other names with "China" in the title.

Taiwan has gone through a lot. They were occupied by Japan for 50 years... it's likely they don't want the same from China.

However, the vote just held to try to enter the UN as "Taiwan" was recently defeated and a new political party was voted in, in Taiwan, promoting better relations with China.

I think 2008 will be a very interesting year.

[mr.x]

The flame for the Games of the 29th Summer Olympiad was lit in Olympia, Greece today. Even though there were 1,000 Greek police officers securing the site, protesters still managed to get in....hopefully, this won't inspire the APC.



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Protesters Mar Olympic Flame-Lighting

By STEPHEN WILSON and NICHOLAS PAPHITIS – 55 minutes ago

ANCIENT OLYMPIA, Greece (AP) — Even before the Olympic flame was lit Monday, a protester of China's human rights policies disrupted the solemn ceremony, foreshadowing the prospect of demonstrations throughout the 85,000-mile torch-relay route right up to the Beijing Games themselves.

Forecasts of clouds and rain had been considered the main threat to the pomp-filled torch-lighting. But in the end, while the sun sparked the flame to life, it was the protesters who turned the joyful bow to the Olympics' roots into a political embarrassment for China over its crackdown in Tibet and other rights issues.

Three men advocating press freedom evaded massive security and ran onto the field at the ceremony in Ancient Olympia before they were seized by police. Minutes later, a Tibetan woman covered in fake blood briefly blocked the path of the torch relay.

The incidents came after International Olympic Committee President Jacques Rogge told The Associated Press in an interview that he was engaged in "silent diplomacy" with the Chinese but wouldn't intervene in politics to try to change their policies.

"We are discussing on a daily basis with Chinese authorities, including discussing these issues, while strictly respecting the sovereignty of China in its affairs," Rogge said.

Protests are bound to follow the torch throughout its 136-day route across five continents and 20 countries. China pledged strict security measures to ensure its segment of the relay won't be marred by protests.

Tibetan activists have already said they plan to demonstrate elsewhere on the route.

"Later we will do protests in London and Paris," said Tenzin Dorjee, a member of Students for a Free Tibet who protested in Ancient Olympia.

China's communist leadership has faced a public relations disaster since protests of its rule turned violent March 14 in the Tibetan capital of Lhasa, sparking waves of unrest in surrounding provinces. China reported a death toll of 22 from the violence, but Tibet's exiled government says 80 Tibetans were killed. Nineteen died in subsequent violence in Gansu province, it said.

A rising chorus of international criticism and floated calls for a boycott have unnerved the Chinese leadership, which has turned up efforts to put its own version of the unrest before the international public.

China has blamed the riots on followers of the Dalai Lama, Tibet's exiled spiritual leader. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice again urged China to start talks with him in order to begin a dialogue that "is going to be the only policy that is sustainable in Tibet."

Edward Friedman, a China specialist at the University of Wisconsin, Madison, said he expects Beijing to rally national pride by attacking its critics.

"My speculation would be that the conversation within the ruling group, the first thing they'd likely say is that people are out to tarnish China's image," he said. "The speed of this one coming at them makes one worry that this group's first instinct is not very helpful. ... They're much more likely to be pulling the bridge on the moat and manning the castles and battlements."

Friedman said he expects China to put pressure on other countries to stay neutral and "to not do things to politicize the Olympics."

Luciano Barra, deputy CEO of the 2006 Winter Games in Turin, recalled how the torch relay in Italy was dogged by protesters opposed to construction of a rail tunnel. Organizers diverted the route at one stage to avoid the demonstrators.

"It makes me laugh compared to the current problem," Barra said.

Another potential flashpoint is the route through Tibet. The flame is due to be carried to the summit of Mount Everest in May and pass through Lhasa in June.

"It's crucial for everyone who works in Tibetan movement to emphasize to the public and get the message to the Chinese government that the Olympic torch should not be allowed to go up Mount Everest and through Tibet," said Anne Holmes, acting director of the London-based Free Tibet campaign. "The very idea that they will be able to parade the torch through Tibet after the crackdown is obscene given what's going on in Tibet."

Tibetan groups have also urged the IOC to keep the relay out of the Himalayan region. Rogge, speaking before the incidents, said there were no plans by Beijing organizers, known as BOCOG, to change the route, but he didn't rule it out.

"The original torch relay route has been confirmed by BOCOG and Chinese authorities," Rogge said. "So far, as I speak now, the IOC is in agreement with that. No one can foresee the future."

China hopes the Olympics will showcase its emergence from developing country into a world power. But as the games approach, various groups have used the Olympics to leverage their causes.

Apart from Tibet, China has come under international criticism for support of Sudan and its role in Darfur. Last month, Hollywood director Steven Spielberg withdrew as an artistic adviser to the opening and closing ceremonies over the Darfur issue.

The IOC has faced calls to take a hard line with China. But Rogge reiterated his long-standing position that the Olympic body is not a political organization and stressed he is involved in private dialogue with Chinese leaders.

"The IOC is engaged in what I call a 'silent diplomacy' with Chinese authorities since day one of the preparations of the games," Rogge said.

At Monday's ceremony, one of the three protesting members of the Paris-based group Reporters Without Borders ran behind BOCOG President Liu Qi as he was giving a speech. The protester unfurled a black banner showing the Olympic rings as handcuffs.

"If the Olympic flame is sacred, human rights are even more so," the French group said. "We cannot let the Chinese government seize the Olympic flame, a symbol of peace, without denouncing the dramatic situation of human rights in the country."

China state TV cut away from the protest and showed a prerecorded scene, preventing Chinese viewers from seeing the incident. Chinese TV commentators did not mention the demonstration.

The first torchbearer in the relay was Greece's Alexandros Nikolaidis. After the torch left the stadium, a Tibetan woman covered in red paint or dye lay in the road approaching the village of Olympia while other protesters chanted "Free Tibet" and "Shame on China."

Japanese runner Haturi Yuuki came within a few feet of the protester, then stopped and ran in place while plainclothes police removed her. They also dragged off a man accompanying her who was waving a Tibetan flag.

Police said the woman and the three members of Reporters Without Borders were being detained. One of the men arrested was Robert Menard, the group's general secretary.

The three Frenchmen said that they were told they could face misdemeanor charges of offending national symbols. They were to appear before a prosecutor later Monday in the nearby town of Pyrgos.

"We're asking the heads of government to boycott the opening ceremony," one of the three protesters, Vincent Brossel, told AP Television News. "We're not calling for a boycott of the games."

Marcelle Roux, president of the French association France Tibet, said her group staged a demonstration at the Foreign Ministry in Paris, and planned more soon.

"These are the games of shame," Roux said. "The Chinese government must have expected this kind of thing."

Tsering Palden, president of the New York-based Tibetan Youth Congress, said Tibetan activist groups will urge Coca-Cola this week to pull its sponsorship of the Olympic Games.

Coca-Cola Co. spokeswoman Kerry Kerr said the company remained committed to supporting the torch relay. "The Coca-Cola Co. joins others in expressing deep concern for the situation on the ground in Tibet. We know that all parties involved hope for a peaceful resolution," she said.

China has promised a smooth run-up to the Summer Games and is hoping a successful games will bolster its international image.

"The more determined the Dalai clique is to ruin the torch relay and the Olympic Games, the more hard and good work we need to do on the preparation and the implementation of all aspects," Yin Xunping, a Communist Party official, was quoted as saying by the Tibet Daily newspaper. Yin is party secretary of the Tibet Mountain Climbing Team, which is participating in the Mount Everest segment of the torch relay.

Meanwhile, Germany rejected calls for an Olympic boycott. Some German athletes had reacted to the Chinese crackdown by supporting boycott calls.

In Nepal, police in the capital of Katmandu broke up at least two separate protests by Tibetan refugees and monks and arrested as many as 475 protesters, officials said.

Chanting "China, stop killings in Tibet. U.N., we want justice," protesters were marching to U.N. headquarters in Katmandu when police stopped them about 300 feet away and snatched their banners.



http://img179.imageshack.us/img179/5964/70164612tn0.jpg

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http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/44511000/gif/_44511700_olympic_tourch_416x250.gif

-Torch lit in Olympia on 24 March and taken on five-day relay around Greece to Athens
-After handover ceremony, it is taken to Beijing on 31 March to begin a journey of 136,800 km (85,000 miles) around the world
-Torch arrives in Macao on 3 May. After three-month relay all around China, it arrives in Beijing for opening ceremony on 8 August

[SpongeG]

this says a lot

China state TV cut away from the protest and showed a prerecorded scene, preventing Chinese viewers from seeing the incident. Chinese TV commentators did not mention the demonstration.

[dreambrother808]

how do you maintain that much control over 1.3 billion people???? china confounds me.

[mr.x]

how do you maintain that much control over 1.3 billion people???? china confounds me.

Well for one thing, their internet censorship department is so advanced that they can control what each IP address can or cannot see.

[The Chemist]

Let's instead hope that turmoil spreads throughout the country, and the PRC is brought to its long overdue demise.

Yes, because everybody knows that the hundreds of millions of ordinary Chinese people who have had their lives improve over the past generation deserve to suffer the same fate that ordinary Russians suffered after the fall of the Soviet Union. China will change, slowly. But hoping that it happens overnight shows a complete ignorance of history.

[Nutterbug]

Yes, because everybody knows that the hundreds of millions of ordinary Chinese people who have had their lives improve over the past generation deserve to suffer the same fate that ordinary Russians suffered after the fall of the Soviet Union. China will change, slowly. But hoping that it happens overnight shows a complete ignorance of history.

Well, if you don't mind waiting till you're old to gain your much sought after freedom and human rights.

As for their lives improving, does the sight of all that smog in the Beijing air and all the other poisons and hazards that they're subject to show that much of an improvement to you? How about all those--the majority living mostly in rural and far flung areas--to whom all this newly acquired wealth have not gotten around to?

And they're not doing the North Koreans any favours either (they who keep the Kim Il-Jong regime alive and send back defectors to their persecution or death).

[The Chemist]

Well, if you don't mind waiting till you're old to gain your much sought after freedom and human rights.

As for their lives improving, does the sight of all that smog in the Beijing air and all the other poisons and hazards that they're subject to show that much of an improvement to you? How about all those--the majority living mostly in rural and far flung areas--to whom all this newly acquired wealth have not gotten around to?


If you think they'd be any better off under a democracy, I suggest you look at India. The average Indian is probably worse off than the average Chinese person, plus they've got all the same issues of wealth disparity and pollution that China does. Here's a newsflash for you - China has 1.3 billion people! Of course they've got hundreds of millions of people that still haven't seen particular improvement in their lot, but that's taking the pessimistic view. The optimistic view says that 30 years ago, the entire country was dirt poor, and in only a generation a sizeable population (at least 300 million people) has been raised out of poverty. Raising the rest out of poverty is going to take another 2 or 3 generations, but even still that'll be a pretty amazing accomplishment. It's not like the average Chinese person doesn't have any freedoms, either - yes, they have fewer than the average Westerner, but they do have some. Just not political freedoms, but then again, they've never had those.

And in case you also didn't know, Western countries had serious pollution issues during their development processes - LA in the 50s and 60s and London in the 50s come to mind. China has started to realize that the environmental damage their development is doing is going to do major damage to their economic growth unless they do something about it, so they are now starting to try and be more environmentally conscious. Obviously considering the extent of the problems, it's not going to be fixed overnight, but they are trying.

[Nutterbug]

And in case you also didn't know, Western countries had serious pollution issues during their development processes - LA in the 50s and 60s and London in the 50s come to mind. China has started to realize that the environmental damage their development is doing is going to do major damage to their economic growth unless they do something about it, so they are now starting to try and be more environmentally conscious. Obviously considering the extent of the problems, it's not going to be fixed overnight, but they are trying.

Awareness of the problem and methods and technology for controlling pollution and other hazards exist, unlike back in the 50's. The Chinese jumped ahead of themselves by rushing to industrialize and modernize, without putting those precautions in place.

[mr.x]

March 26, 2008 12:00am

NO, don't. Let's not boycott the Beijing Olympics. Letting them go ahead is hurting China much, much more.

How desperately China wanted these Games so it could announce the dawn of the Chinese century.

But, after spending a reported $40 billion to show off its glittering new might, China is startled to find it's showing off its pimples instead.

Its propaganda showpiece risks turning into a huge flop, and people like me - who figure we're safer if our neighbours are democrats, too - couldn't be happier.

China's troubles started last month with Steven Spielberg, the world's most famous film director, who quit as the Beijing Games' artistic adviser in protest at China's support of Sudan's genocidal regime.

The Chinese regime was furious, denouncing the walkout as "unreasonable, irresponsible and unfair", but the damage was done.

Millions more people had suddenly learned that China, to secure Sudan's oil for its own booming rise, had sold the country's Islamist regime the very gunships, planes and guns it was using to slaughter countless civilians in Darfur.

Many learned, too, that China had even blocked attempts to get the United Nations to stop this genocide.

On Monday came another propaganda disaster, when protesters for Tibet's independence burst into a ceremony at ancient Olympia being held to light the Olympic torch for the Beijing Games.

Chinese state television immediately cut its broadcast, and screened pre-recorded footage instead to avoid showing a torch ceremony for China turning into a torching of China. But again the damage was done - and the censorship made it worse, not better.

The damage was not to the regime's power at home. After all, few Chinese will be allowed to hear of the protests that will buffet the torch relay for the 130 days it will take to reach Beijing.

The damage was instead to China's image around the rest of the world - in countries whose people have not yet yet considered what this Chinese century will mean for them. And a lot of those people are sure to get nervous.

No wonder. Those two Tibetan protesters were drawing attention to the bottom line of China's power. This is a regime built not on democracy, but on force. The killings of Tibetan monks and protesters today are just the most vivid illustration of this truth.

But more worrying for those of us who aren't Chinese is that China is now exporting its anti-democracy to the world. China's Communist Party doesn't just bully its own people, but helps other autocrats bully their own.

Most obviously, of course, China, with a veto power in the United Nations Security Council, has blocked attempts by the West to get UN approval to topple the deadly regimes of Slobodan Milosevic and Saddam Hussein, as well as to curb Sudan.

You see, China figures that if the UN gets the taste for tackling tyrannies, it might one day decide to tackle the one in Beijing, too.

So it's red-hot for promoting its principle of "non-interference" -- which it also uses to justify propping up a gaggle of corrupt and tyrannical leaders in Africa in particular.

Our own protesters like to scream abuse at the West, but at least Western countries and institutions insist that when they give money to foreign nations it's in exchange for promises to be less corrupt and more democratic.

But China gives no-strings loans and aid to any leader, no matter how corrupt or tyrannical, as long as they can do it a favour in return.

Angola is a perfect example of how China's diplomacy is white-anting efforts to spread "Western" values such as good government.

Angola is said by Human Rights Watch to have "lost" $4 billion of oil revenues between 1997 and 2004, and in 2004 the International Monetary Fund got it to agree to manage that income more transparently.

But just before the big signing of this deal, the Angolans told the IMF it could keep its cash and leave town: China had just offered it a $2 billion loan, no questions asked.

It's the same story all over Africa. The President of corruption-plagued Senegal, Abdoulaye Wade, gloated: "China's approach to our needs is simply better adapted than the slow and sometimes patronising post-colonialising approach of European investors . . ."

Which means Zimbabwean dictator Robert Mugabe, shunned by the West, can instead buy his arms and radio-jammers from China, greedy for his platinum, nickel and copper. Hell, China even accepted eight tonnes of his elephant ivory as payment.

Human rights - let alone elephants' rights - just isn't on China's agenda. As a recent US Council of Foreign Relations report said: "China doesn't have the same human rights concerns as the United States and European countries, experts say, so it will sell military hardware and weapons to nearly anyone."

With methods such as that, China has grown rapidly to become the third-biggest trader in sub-Saharan Africa - after the US and France - and may soon outstrip even them.

And with its trade, arms and aid, it's won plenty of friends in bodies that vote on decisions affecting even us.

Nowhere is that clearer than in the United Nations General Assembly, where the influence of the greatest democracy is falling as the influence of the greatest autocracy is rising.

In 1995, the US won 60 per cent of the votes on arms control, and 81 per cent on human rights. By 2006, it won just 30 and 28 per cent respectively.

Meanwhile, China, says leading foreign policy analyst Mark Leonard, went from winning 43 per cent of the UN votes on human rights to 82 per cent. China a human rights paragon at the UN. Who'd have thought?

Indeed, it is even on the UN's Human Rights Council, along with such champions of rights as Saudi Arabia, Russia, Pakistan, Egypt and Angola. But the US is not.

The world is changing fast, and those you may have counted on to protect you are growing weaker.

China has been counting on that, in fact, and especially on the weakness of Western leaders, hungry for its trade.

Until now it seems to have counted rightly. The lure of China's gold has had Western leaders mute their criticisms of its human rights abuses.

Our own Mandarin-speaking Prime Minister Kevin Rudd, for instance, can furiously vow to do "everything within our power" to stop Japan's "slaughter" of whales, but dares only murmur that China should "exercise restraint" in slaughtering Tibetans.

As with the politicians, so with the International Olympic Committee, which awarded Beijing the 2008 Games with the excuse that this would encourage China to adopt more Western values, such as free speech.

But instead of getting China to adopt Western values, Olympic committees have tried to get Western athletes to adopt Chinese ones, demanding they sign agreements curbing their freedom to speak in Beijing.

Even Australia's athletes need their team managers' permission to talk politics in China.

Now IOC power broker Kevan Gosper is even telling the rest of us not to protest near the torch relay. How chuffed China would be by his efforts.

But none of this feebleness on which China has relied will work. If there's one thing that pricks our politicians sharper than Chinese gold, it's the rage of voters, activists and celebrities.

As the torch relay wends through Western democracies, more people will finally confront a question they've never even been asked.

Is it really the United States that's the biggest threat to human rights? Or should we worry more about Chinese oppression?

Sure, the US will remain the Left's pet bogey. But China has now advertised itself as a target, and built a multi-billion-dollar platform for a demonstration, complete with a torch relay whose bobbing light will drag in thousands of protesters in capitals around the world.

With showbiz causes such as Tibet to push, protesters will make appeasing China a political no-no. The pressure will also go on torch-bearers such as pediatrician Fiona Stanley and humanitarian Gillian Hicks to pull out from the Canberra leg - whether in support of democracy, Tibet, the Falun Gong, Darfur or so many other casualties of China's autocrats.

Through 20 countries this torch will run, and each will have this debate. China will come under a scrutiny it's never had before, and not before time.

What a marvellously subversive idea it's turned out to be, after all, giving the Games to Beijing. Let's make the very most of it.

Join Andrew on blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/andrewbolt

[bils]

that's a pretty biased article. while i don't argue that china is a perfect country, you could write something like that for many other countries. try the US for starters.

[mr.x]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v171/lukin18/070812_p09_cartoon1.jpg

[deasine]

HAHA cute cartoon!

[SpongeG]

there are things going around that leaders will not show up for the ceremonies and that athletes who do compete will do something as a form of protest

should be an interesting disaster er games to watch

[Jacques]

according to the map inserted above they are bypassing Canada, too afraid?

[mr.x]

according to the map inserted above they are bypassing Canada, too afraid?

There are probably a few reasons. We let the Dalai Lama speak here several times, and we respect and honour him. Secondly, our liberal laws would allow protests to go on if the 2008 flame passed through here....just look at how we deal with the APC. We've let them walk all over us. One good example was at the flag raising ceremony a year ago, there were protesters chanting and screaming during the entire ceremony....that kind of disruption would never be allowed by other countries, especially China.

[Nutterbug]

There are probably a few reasons. We let the Dalai Lama speak here several times, and we respect and honour him. Secondly, our liberal laws would allow protests to go on if the 2008 flame passed through here....just look at how we deal with the APC. We've let them walk all over us. One good example was at the flag raising ceremony a year ago, there were protesters chanting and screaming during the entire ceremony....that kind of disruption would never be allowed by other countries, especially China.

AND there are something like 200 other countries that also got skipped over.

San Fran is its token North American stop. Live with it.

[dreambrother808]

that's a pretty biased article. while i don't argue that china is a perfect country, you could write something like that for many other countries. try the US for starters.

you could write something along these lines about the US, yes. however, it would have differences as well. that does not make the article biased. making accurate criticisms of a tyranny is not a bias. the faults of one country do not decrease the importance and severity of another's.

[204]

http://www.caglecartoons.com/images/preview/{6841C659-A92E-43AF-94DE-0ABE312B7791}.gif

[mr.x]

^ lmao.

[mr.x]

Police Fire on Tibetan Protesters; 8 Die

By TINI TRAN – 11 hours ago

BEIJING (AP) — Police fired on hundreds of protesters in a Tibetan area of western China, killing eight people, overseas activist groups said. State media reported one government official was seriously injured in what it called a riot.

Two monks also committed suicide late last month because of government oppression, another Tibetan activist group said Saturday.

The reports indicate that unrest is continuing in China's Tibetan areas despite a massive security presence in place since anti-government demonstrations in Tibet's capital, Lhasa, and neighboring provinces broke out in mid-March.

The protests are the longest and most sustained challenge to China's 57-year rule in the Himalayan region. China's subsequent crackdown has drawn international scrutiny and criticism in the run-up to this summer's Olympic Games.

Police fired on Buddhist monks and ordinary citizens who had marched on local government offices in Garze Tibetan Autonomous Prefecture in Sichuan province near Tibet on Thursday, according to the London-based Free Tibet Campaign and the International Campaign for Tibet.

The protesters were demanding the release of two monks who were detained after 3,000 paramilitary troops searched their monastery and found photographs of the Dalai Lama, Tibet's exiled Buddhist leader, the groups said.

The U.S. government-funded Radio Free Asia said it had unconfirmed reports that up to 15 people were killed and dozens injured in the violence.

Calls to local police and hospitals in the area were not answered Saturday or else officials said they had no information.

The official Xinhua News Agency had no details on deaths or injuries but confirmed that a riot broke out near government offices in Donggu town in Garze.

An official was "attacked and seriously wounded," and police were "forced to fire warning shots and put down the violence," Xinhua said.

On Saturday, the Tibetan Center for Human Rights and Democracy, based in India, said two monks committed suicide last month in Sichuan's Aba County following government oppression. Aba County has been the scene of large protests involving hundreds of monks and citizens.

One monk, identified as Lobsang Jinpa, from the Aba Kirti Monastery killed himself March 27, leaving a signed note saying, "I do not want to live under Chinese oppression even for a minute," the human rights group said.

The group said the second suicide occurred March 30 at the Aba Gomang Monastery, when a 75-year-old monk named Legtsok took his life, telling his followers he "can't beat the oppression anymore."

It was impossible to verify the information since Chinese authorities have banned foreign reporters from traveling to the region.

The Tibet Daily newspaper reported Saturday that the government planned to step up its "patriotic education" campaign, which requires monks to denounce their spiritual leader, the Dalai Lama, and declare their loyalty to Beijing.

"We should strengthen patriotic education so as to guide the masses of monks to continuously display the patriotic tradition and uphold the banner of patriotism," the paper quoted Hao Peng, Tibet's deputy Communist Party Chief, as saying.

Thursday's violence in Sichuan province came when the government attempted to enforce "patriotic education" at the Garze monastery, according to the activist groups.

The chief monk at the monastery had refused entry to a government team on Wednesday and the team returned the next day with the paramilitary troops, leading to the arrests and protests, according to the groups.

Chinese authorities say 22 people died in anti-Beijing riots that broke out March 14. The Tibetan government-in-exile says up to 140 were killed in the protests and the ensuing crackdown.

Beijing has accused Dalai Lama supporters of orchestrating the violence, a charge the spiritual leader has repeatedly denied.

In India, police arrested 17 Tibetan exiles Saturday as they attempted to march from the remote Himalayan region of Ladakh in northern India into Tibet, according to local official M.K. Bhandari. Ladakh is home to about 7,000 Tibetan exiles.

The exiles have been arrested for violating the law that prohibits entry into sensitive border areas.

Also Saturday, France's human rights minister denied a report that quoted her as saying President Nicolas Sarkozy could boycott the Olympic opening ceremony unless China releases political prisoners and opens a dialogue with the Dalai Lama.

In a statement, Rama Yade said Le Monde newspaper had misquoted her in Saturday editions when it said she listed necessary "conditions" for Sarkozy's attendance at the Aug. 8 ceremony.

"The word 'conditions' was never used," Yade said in a terse statement.

Sarkozy spokesman Frank Louvrier declined to comment on Yade's interview. Sarkozy has previously said he could "not close the door to any possibility" when asked whether he supported a boycott of the ceremony.







Beijing has used Games for political ends, says Amnesty
Calls for world leaders to apply pressure on China
IOC tells hosts to free up internet during Olympics

Paul Kelso
Wednesday April 2, 2008
The Guardian

China's preparations for the Olympic Games come in for renewed criticism today as Amnesty International publishes fresh allegations that Beijing has used the games as an excuse to crack down on internal dissent.

In a damning assessment of the country's human-rights record, the report alleges that abuses have increased rather than decreased as a result of it being awarded the Olympics, and calls on the International Olympic Committee and world leaders, including Gordon Brown, to use the Games to apply pressure to Beijing.

"China: The Olympics Countdown" details how peaceful protesters and critical journalists have been targeted in a crackdown intended to allow China to use the Games to portray a harmonious image to the world. AI's findings appear to undermine promises made by Beijing and the IOC, that the award of the Olympics would be a force for good and hasten reform.

The campaign-group's intervention coincides with a call from the IOC for an end to internet censorship before the Games begin in August. An IOC delegation is currently assessing progress in Beijing and yesterday used a meeting with the organising committee to urge the government to allow free internet access to the media attending the Games.

Kevin Gosper, an IOC member, said that the continued blocking of some websites - guardian.co.uk and bbc.co.uk are among those that have been restricted - would "reflect very poorly" on the hosts. "This morning we insisted [to them] again," Gosper added. "Our concern is that the press is able to operate as it has at previous Games - at Games time. I'm satisfied that the Chinese understand the need for this and they will do it."

Gosper said the IOC's call applied only to the period of the Games. "There was some criticism that the internet closed down during events relating to Tibet in previous weeks, but this is not Games time," he said.

A Chinese foreign ministry spokeswoman Jiang Yu said "management" of the net followed the "general practice of the international community", but did not say whether controls would be lifted.

Speaking on the opening day of the IOC's final formal inspection of facilities, the coordination commission chairman Hein Verbruggen did admit that the Games have become embroiled in controversy. The recent violence in Tibet follows the resignation of the film-maker Steven Spielberg as a special adviser in protest at China's support for Sudan's government.

"Clearly, in recent times more than ever, the Beijing Games are being drawn into issues that do not necessarily have a link with the operation of the Games," Verbruggen said. "We're all aware the international community is discussing these topics, but our main focus is the successful delivery of the Games operations."

The IOC president Jacques Rogge has repeatedly insisted that the Olympics would be "a force for good" in China, but AI alleges that they have in fact sparked a "wave of repression" against critics of the communist regime. According to the campaign group, human-rights activists and others who have criticised government policy have been targeted in a "clean-up", many of whom remain in detention.

Several activists and their families have been jailed for protesting against forced evictions in Beijing to make way for Olympic-related construction. Amnesty also says that foreign journalists are restricted from reporting despite a promise to lift restrictions, and that tight controls remain on domestic journalists.

The recent violent clampdown in Tibet was also motivated by a desire not to overshadow the Beijing Games, the report states. Amnesty has also called on Brown and other world leaders to apply pressure on China. "The muzzle on protesters and activists, in Tibet and in Beijing, is getting tighter and tighter as the Olympics get closer," said the UK campaign director Tim Hancock. "Unless world leaders and the IOC speak out strongly and in public, they risk giving tacit endorsement to repressive policies."

The IOC said it will examine AI's report, and that recent events in Tibet are "a matter of great concern". It rejected calls for it to try and intervene in Chinese government policy, however. The UK Foreign Office repeated the government's position that it does not support a boycott of any part of the Olympics.







In other news, the Chinese government has unblocked the BBC website and Wikipedia.

[SFUVancouver]

^ The CBC has also been blocked by the Chinese government, despite the fact that the CBC is the official Canadian broadcaster for the Olympics and the IOC has already accepted a large cheque for that distinction.

http://www.cbc.ca/arts/story/2008/04/04/cbc-china.html

[mr.x]

It's pretty crazy in London.....lots of people have been arrested for trying to stop the relay. Some guy even got hold of the torch from the torchbearer and ran away with it, but police caught him pretty quickly. Another guy tried to extinguish the flame with a fire extinguisher. :D





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London protests ruin Olympic torch relay overnight
There were chaotic scenes overnight as both police and protesters clashed amid political and emotional tensions surrounding the China Olympics.

Over 30 Tibetan protesters were arrested in Britain following the Beijing Olympics torch relay through London.

Estimates of up to 37 protesters are reported to have been arrested while the torch made it's way through London.

A security detail of about 40 shadowed the torch with the relayer barely visible amid the pack of Chinese security officials.

The relay started at Wembley stadium, and was quickly disrupted by pro-Tibetan protesters.

As the torch went on, one man attempted to grab the torch, snatching hold of it before being tackled to the ground by both Chinese and British officials.

The man later yelled as he was dragged away, saying that China should not be allowed to get way with it's current human rights record.

A protester also attempted to put out the Olympic flame by spraying it with a fire extinguisher, police quickly tackled the man, who was dragged away after his arrest.

The scenes indicate further tension to come for the Beijing Olympics as the flame makes it's way across the globe.

Amid the confusion and tension of the London relay, the torch was at one point sent down the wrong street, and forced to return.

British Prime Minister Gordon Brown welcomed the torch to 10 Downing Street - the PM's official residence - however the relay was quickly moved on.

Both Chinese and British security officials accompanied the torch, with several police helicopters also used during the operation.

Thousands of onlookers observed the relay, however much of the crowd was made up of pro-Tibetan protesters and Chinese supporters.







On the bright side, Vancouver won't have a tough act to beat.

[mr.x]

France takes gold, the English follow up with Silver and Bronze...
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2374/2396106630_1fd4e14d7c.jpg



The Athens 2004 relay
http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/2827/stevermalltorchrelaypn7.jpg





The Beijing 2008 relay o_O
http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/8333/1207576198817lg4.jpg





As well, some amazing photos of the Olympic Stadium and Aquatic Centre:

http://i3.sinaimg.cn/dy/c/p/2008-04-01/U1565P1T1D15269343F21DT20080401115750.jpg
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http://i1.sinaimg.cn/dy/c/p/2008-04-01/U1565P1T1D15269346F21DT20080401115757.jpg

http://www.beijingupdates.com/forum/UploadFile/2008-4/200844177845727.jpg

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[mr.x]

wow.....the relay has become such a farce that they might as well hide it under a brown paper bag. There's no point to it anymore, and symbolism has been lost.


Go San Francisco Go!

I can't wait to see the Paralympic flame here in Vancouver in August!



inside the Olympic Stadium, preparing for the opening ceremonies:
http://www.beijingupdates.com/forum/UploadFile/2008-4/20084717144411589.jpg

[mr.x]

http://a123.g.akamai.net/f/123/12465/1d/media.canada.com/553f4206-4dd2-4460-b754-377bcd92779f/ffst.gif
About 5-6,000 people (mostly Chinese-Canadians) jammed Parliament Hill for pro-China rally this afternoon. They wanted to show support for peace and the Olympic spirit. The 2008 Olympic games are in Beijing this summer. There was a small group of Free-Tibet protesters who stayed about a block away from the Hill.
Photograph by : Photo by Mike Carroccetto, The Ottawa Citizen / CanWest News Service



No boycott
Thousands rally on Parliament Hill in support of Beijing Games

Maria Cook and Scott Cressman, Ottawa Citizen
Published: Sunday, April 13, 2008

Ottawa . A pro-China demonstration on Parliament Hill Sunday attracted an estimated 5,000 Chinese-Canadians from Ottawa, Montreal and Toronto eager to show support for the troubled Beijing Olympics.

"Olympics is nothing to do with politics," said Jeremy Zhang, a 37-year-old Ottawa chemist who emigrated from China in 2002. "I think our country deserves the Olympics. Sports is a peaceful event to join all people together."

A group of Chinese community associations organized the event following a week of chaotic protests that disrupted the world relay of the Olympic torch. Protesters in Paris, London and San Francisco have condemned Chinese human rights abuses, including recent violent confrontations in Tibet.

Early in the afternoon, a dozen pro-Tibet protesters crashed the rally.

The shouting, pro-China faction surrounded them, calling them liars paid to disrupt the event, said Nicole Demers, a volunteer with Friends of Tibet.

"They wouldn't let us be 15 people voicing our opinion in a free country."

Police told the counter-protesters that they were not safe and moved the small group down Wellington Street towards the Château Laurier. The protesters, some splattered with fake blood or gagged, waved Tibetan flags there under police supervision.

"The tone was hateful and quite intimidating when there's a dozen Tibetans up against a thousand Chinese," said Russ Hillier, a Carleton student and member of Students for a Free Tibet.

The rally aimed to repeat a party line, not promote truth or justice, he said. "Really, what these protesters are saying is very similar to what the Chinese government is saying."

The flag-waving demonstrators called for a politics-free Olympics that enjoyed the support of the Canadian government. They expressed indignation at "distorted" media reports and opposed Tibet independence.

"Tibet is part of China," said Ling Wang, the 30-year-old Toronto medical researcher. "We don't want anyone separating from our country."

It was a love-in for China. People waved the red Chinese flag, wore "I love China" T-shirts and sang along to songs that stirred nationalist sentiment.

"We want the Canadian government to treat China fairly and to treat the Olympics in a sporting way," said University of Ottawa student Hong Chen.

"Don't boycott it. We know human rights is an issue there. Give China a chance. Let's sit down and talk about it, not mix it with sports. Let the world come together to celebrate sport."

One of the rally's speakers was Henry Lu, chairman of the Chinese Community Association of Ottawa. The excited crowd punctuated his sentences with raucous cheers and flag-waving.

"Open your eyes. If you really want to know China, go there," Mr. Lu said in an interview. "Don't say things from outside."

China would host a strong Olympics despite the disputes, Mr. Lu said. For the sake of long-term relations with China, Canada should support the Games, he said.

China has made real improvements, but the world holds the nation to a different standard, he added. Western media still judge the country too harshly.

"They just try to give China a bad name, a bad image, and they are not doing that on a factual basis," agreed Adam Wang, an Ottawa translator and spokesman for the event.

"We're here to protest the violence perpetrated by the separatist movement in Tibet and their supporters," said Mr. Wang, who has lived in Canada for 20 years. "There is another side to the story; that those people who promote the message of peace actually carry out out the violence."

Mr. Wang, 50, said that Chinese Canadians feel proud that China is hosting the Olympics. "Is China perfect in terms of human rights? No. But it's changing. Boycotts are not effective and can only hurt the feelings of the Chinese people at large."

Yun Bo Liu, 24, a Carlton University biochemistry student who came to Canada six years ago, said the torch protests made him angry. "Tibet is destroying the games. They make people have the wrong image of the Olympics in China. The Olympics are not just for China. It's for everyone in the world. "

"If anyone causes problems with the Olympics, it'll be people who are against peace," said Ophir Kendler, an Israeli-born Carleton graduate student at the rally with his Chinese girlfriend.

"We know China is not good in some ways, but it's getting better and better," said Yuan Liu, a Chinese-born Carleton graduate student.


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What??? No tanks???

[dreambrother808]

It's such a complicated topic. What do we really know living this far away in Canada? And yet do these Chinese-Canadians question what they really know and what the Chinese government has told them? I know that the comments section on Youtube isn't exactly a place to look for wisdom or common sense but what I've read posted there underneath the many videos in support of the Chinese government on this topic, often posted by Chinese-Canadians, is quite disheartening and scary.

[204]

^^ "We don't want anyone separating from our country."

That's fine if you're talking about Quebec, however we're not. Where exactly do these people's loyalities lie? Are they not supposedly Canadians?

"It was a love-in for China. People waved the red Chinese flag, wore "I love China" T-shirts and sang along to songs that stirred nationalist sentiment."

Wow! That is a lot of adoration for the Chinese homeland from people who immigrated to Canada of their own volition.

It would be nice to occasionally see something resembling the same loyalty or gratitude toward their adopted country.

[mr.x]

^^ It would be nice to occasionally see something resembling the same loyalty or gratitude toward their adopted country.

Some sweet tears would be nice as well:
http://img391.imageshack.us/img391/5151/49130477gz4.jpg



ZYK9dGZvh4E

[Hong Kongese]

Sorry to say that, but the chances for the Tibetan to have their own country are zero to none, the reason is simple, China can afford to lose the Olympic but It can not afford to lose Tibet for it's national defence strategy.

[Nutterbug]

^^ "We don't want anyone separating from our country."

That's fine if you're talking about Quebec, however we're not. Where exactly do these people's loyalities lie? Are they not supposedly Canadians?

"It was a love-in for China. People waved the red Chinese flag, wore "I love China" T-shirts and sang along to songs that stirred nationalist sentiment."

Wow! That is a lot of adoration for the Chinese homeland from people who immigrated to Canada of their own volition.

It would be nice to occasionally see something resembling the same loyalty or gratitude toward their adopted country.

Do you have a hunch that these people would not stand in the way of a Chinese invasion and annexation of Canada?

Anyways, if the Tibetan people want out of China, what problem do these people have with letting them out? What personal loss to them is it anyways?

And yes, I would say the same about Quebec. Losing Quebec is no skin off of BC's back.

[Nutterbug]

Sorry to say that, but the chances for the Tibetan to have their own country are zero to none, the reason is simple, China can afford to lose the Olympic but It can not afford to lose Tibet for it's national defence strategy.

Defense from what? India?

[bugsy]

These people make me sick.

Do you have a hunch that these people would not stand in the way of a Chinese invasion and annexation of Canada?

Actually, these people will probabily be carrying out Chinese communist invasion and annexation of Canada.

Defense from what? India?

In communist China, defense invade YOU!

On an unrelated note...

http://akuse.com/Blog/blog_pics/politics/BeijingOlympics.jpg

[hollywoodnorth]

Shut Her Down! :)

[dreambrother808]

Do these protesters think they are going to sway the opinions of their fellow Canadians in favour of the CCP's view on these things? Do these protesters have any knowledge of the history of the CCP and their own country? Why do they choose to believe the teachings of a ruling party with one of the most brutal, lying, inhumane track records?

[Lee_Haber8]

^ Guys, many of these events are sponsored by the CCP. They've done this before. Though, there are some naive people who fall in for it.

The Beijing regime has been successful in framing any dissent in their direction as dissent against the entire country and culture. For all those who are from China or (like me) who have parents from China, we are not criticizing Chinese culture; we are criticizing the evil government that currently brutally rules it. And yes, it is evil; A government that harvests organs from peaceful mediators and remorselessly runs tanks over demonstrators is evil. If you really want to help China, don't go to rallies like these; instead, help out those in that country who are fighting for basic human rights.

[Nutterbug]

They've managed to sway one Swede.

http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=147591

(Yes, I mean you, staff.)

[Jacques]

^^ "We don't want anyone separating from our country."

That's fine if you're talking about Quebec, however we're not. Where exactly do these people's loyalities lie? Are they not supposedly Canadians?

"It was a love-in for China. People waved the red Chinese flag, wore "I love China" T-shirts and sang along to songs that stirred nationalist sentiment."

Wow! That is a lot of adoration for the Chinese homeland from people who immigrated to Canada of their own volition.

It would be nice to occasionally see something resembling the same loyalty or gratitude toward their adopted country.

You took the words out of my mouth, how many times have I heard such a liking from many immigrants toward their homeland and so less to their adoptive Country that open their arms and greeted them with freedom , I am Canadian first and foremost even if the fact that my primary language and origin are french.

[Jacques]

BTW: had the IOC awarded the 2008 OLYMPICS to TORONTO they would not be this mess, so China was well aware of the consequences and issues would prop up pertaining to HUMAN rights violations, to its own citizens, Tibet and lets no also forget the extreme amount of oil purchased from them from the SUDAN which in turns finances the the genocide of DAFUR to mane a few.
'
So when I hear about china telling its all the Dalai Lama's doing and stating to Jacques Rogue the president of the IOC to mind his business and not meddle in such matter one has to remember their agree to the rules and charter according set by the IOC. in the end they do not abide by it and thus this mess rising day by day.
Plus how free is it when you have the Republic army of China dressed in baby blue gear surrounding the flame carrier in Country that support freedom and yet we allowed such injustice to be plastered upon our eyes as they go their merry way come on give me a break!

[Hong Kongese]

Defense from what? India?

Yes, you are exactly right! In the late 50s there was a brief war between China and India over the disputed territories along their borders. The young and inexperienced indian army was no match for the chinese veterans who were just fresh from the 2nd world war with Japan and the Korean war with the US. The chinese army could have gone all the way to the Indian capital and cut India in half but there was pressure from the then Soviet Union for China to stop its military advance and to have a truce with India, because the Soviet Union was concerned China would become too powerful in that region.

It was one of the reasons causing the split between China and the Soviet later on after a long partnership.

China, Russia and India; these three powerful nations don't trust each other at all. They might be allies for the time being but they might become enemies again if a new conflict comes up.

Imagine what a new indepentant Tibet could do to China? It would be very likely that Tibet would side with India, but what China is worrying about the most is to see the US become Tibet's protecter, sending thousands of troops, missiles, war planes and tanks along the new border now 1000 miles closer to China. China won't be able to tolerate this situation and won't allow it to ever happen.

That is why the hope for an independant Tibet is none. Sorry, I don't mean to offend those who are pro-Tibet, but this is what will happen regardless of any situation.

[Hong Kongese]

Not meant to offend anyone but I found this picture to be quite funny.

http://img261.imageshack.us/img261/8954/20534largept2.jpg

[mr.x]

Funny AND True. At this rate, the Chinese should be able to replace the American flag with their own flag by the end of the century.

[mr.x]

Three days ago in the Toronto Star:
http://www.thestar.com/News/World/article/416569

In other Olympic torch developments yesterday, Nepalese soldiers and police guarding the slopes of Mount Everest are authorized to shoot to stop any protests during China's run to the summit, an official in Kathmandu told The Associated Press.

In order for the torch to pass, the police are now authorized to "shoot to stop" any protestors? Is this the notion of human spirit, freedom and brotherhood that the torch is supposed to inspire?

This has become a complete mockery. The IOC made a big mistake giving China the Games. They are destined to become a major failure -- a heartless event, where events are rescheduled in order to avoid the overwhelming pollution in Beijing. What a mess.

I cannot believe it. "Shoot to stop" is authorized. The Olympics have become their own monster. When things have deteriorated to this level, there is every reason to believe that this circus is about money and power, and nothing else.

They can shove the whole thing as far as I'm concerned. I have no interest in even watching the massive propaganda show that the ceremonies will be.





From Ashling O'Connor, Olympics Correspondent
OLYMPIC chiefs are prepared for deaths along the torch relay route, The Times has learnt.
In a confidential memorandum, the International Olympic Committee (IOC) has drawn up possible scenarios including incidents where people are hurt or killed during demonstrations in China and cities around the world that are hosting the torch.
The IOC, which approved the route through Tibet, has also prepared "response protocols" for its 205 national committees. The "suggested statement" in the case of a fatality is: "We extend our deepest sympathies or condolences to anyone that was injured or killed, and their families."
The torch will be in Tibet in June when it will be taken to the summit of Everest, in what the memo calls a "particularly bold segment" of the relay. It is the most contentious leg of the Olympic flame's "journey of harmony" before the Beijing Olympics.
Pro-Tibet campaigners have demanded a rerouting. They expressed anger that the IOC is refusing to intervene despite its private admission that protests could turn violent and lead to loss of life. "Either the IOC and Olympics sponsors want to avert bloodshed or they don't. It is in their power to avert a humanitarian catastrophe," Matt Whitticase, of the Free Tibet Campaign, said. "If they insist the torch goes through Tibet they will only have themselves to blame when it ends up drenched in Tibetan blood."
The IOC defended its memo as good governance. "Part of any robust crisis management preparation is to take the worst-case scenarios. We don't want them to happen but we have to prepare for everything," Giselle Davies, communications director, said. The IOC "understood the emotions" over Tibet, she added, "but it was always the case that the torch would go to all regions of China".
Bejing officials this week cancelled the press trip covering the ascent of Everest, blaming adverse weather. The IOC had said that media could cover the relay "in its entirety" but the Chinese are in charge of accreditations. No foreign journalist has operated freely in Tibet since March 14 and the region is closed to tourists.
Vincent Brossel, from Reporters Sans Frontieres, a press freedom group, said: "The restrictions are in complete contradiction with Chinese promises to the IOC. Reporters should be allowed to go to Everest freely."
Protests have followed the torch since it was lit in Athens last month, creating a public relations nightmare for organisers and sponsors.
For Japan this weekend, the three official torch sponsors - Coca-Cola, Samsung and Lenovo - have scaled down their involvement by cancelling advertising floats, over security fears.
In an open letter to Coca-Cola this week, more than 150 Tibet groups asked the US soft drinks group to use its influence to force a rerouting. Predicting violence, they cited the warning by Jampa Phuntsog, governor of the Tibetan Autonomous Region, that the Chinese authorities would "without doubt deal with these persons severely ... we will not be merciful". The IOC's Athletes' Commission condemned the protests as "counter to the values the torch stands for" and said it had "not had the peaceful passage it deserves".
Olympic sponsors came under more pressure when human rights activists gave warning that they faced a summer of protests outside their headquarters, starting this weekend. Dream for Darfur, which is campaigning for China to end its support for the regime in Sudan, said that sponsors were "silently complicit in the genocide".
THE TIMES

[Jacques]

this totally atrocious, I see many chineses here that back-up the Olympics and as far as I am concerned, they ought a stop this nonsense they " the chinese temporary students were given an opportunity to study in our land of freedom and the Chinese who have immigrated here should behave like Canadian first and foremost otherwise why did they ever leave their so amorous mother land CHINA , hypocrite's , to the world at large having the BABY BLUE BOYS SHOOT TO STOP from CHINA show THAT country its true COLOUR red with hate

at least one good thing so far their ship with ammunition destine for the genocide has been turned away and maybe ending back where it belongs "China"

BTW: they are many chinese immigrant(s) in this Country that do respect their new home and for their contribution we can never say thank you enough, just to make sure no one thinks I am prejudice, it is just a small radical group as usual pro-Chinese that should not be here if they love where they came from so much as to defy freedom itself then why they left in the first place.?

[mr.x]

^ i agree....this news does remind me a bit of Tienanmen nearly 20 years ago. Soldiers > kill > protesters.

Scary when you think about what lies ahead of the future, with China supposedly becoming the world's new superpower.

[Jacques]

I watched a mini series entitled " the Trojan Horse " it shows the corruption of the policies of USA and how they managed to rigged the election so Canada would become part of the USA empire and then fighting against China for the OIL in Sudan.
Not so far fetch but all the same it still showed China as a two faced state.

[Nutterbug]

I watched a mini series entitled " the Trojan Horse " it shows the corruption of the policies of USA and how they managed to rigged the election so Canada would become part of the USA empire and then fighting against China for the OIL in Sudan.
Not so far fetch but all the same it still showed China as a two faced state.

I wonder if it's only a matter of time till China becomes the next USA and starts sending troops abroad to serve its interests.

[mr.x]

I watched a mini series entitled " the Trojan Horse " it shows the corruption of the policies of USA and how they managed to rigged the election so Canada would become part of the USA empire and then fighting against China for the OIL in Sudan.
Not so far fetch but all the same it still showed China as a two faced state.

I haven't seen the Trojan Horse, but I have seen H2O (Trojan Horse is the sequel) which was America's secret plan to assassinate the Prime Minister, and through a chain of events secure its water resources from Canada. The Prime Minister's son becomes the new PM afterwards, but soonafter the country becomes unstable (i don't remember why) and the U.S. military takes over, and dismisses the last parliament.

[Jacques]

Yep that was the follow up I seen, very interesting
TY

[giallo]

Three days ago in the Toronto Star:
http://www.thestar.com/News/World/article/416569


In order for the torch to pass, the police are now authorized to "shoot to stop" any protestors? Is this the notion of human spirit, freedom and brotherhood that the torch is supposed to inspire?

This has become a complete mockery. The IOC made a big mistake giving China the Games. They are destined to become a major failure -- a heartless event, where events are rescheduled in order to avoid the overwhelming pollution in Beijing. What a mess.

I cannot believe it. "Shoot to stop" is authorized. The Olympics have become their own monster. When things have deteriorated to this level, there is every reason to believe that this circus is about money and power, and nothing else.

They can shove the whole thing as far as I'm concerned. I have no interest in even watching the massive propaganda show that the ceremonies will be.





From Ashling O'Connor, Olympics Correspondent
OLYMPIC chiefs are prepared for deaths along the torch relay route, The Times has learnt.
In a confidential memorandum, the International Olympic Committee (IOC) has drawn up possible scenarios including incidents where people are hurt or killed during demonstrations in China and cities around the world that are hosting the torch.
The IOC, which approved the route through Tibet, has also prepared "response protocols" for its 205 national committees. The "suggested statement" in the case of a fatality is: "We extend our deepest sympathies or condolences to anyone that was injured or killed, and their families."
The torch will be in Tibet in June when it will be taken to the summit of Everest, in what the memo calls a "particularly bold segment" of the relay. It is the most contentious leg of the Olympic flame's "journey of harmony" before the Beijing Olympics.
Pro-Tibet campaigners have demanded a rerouting. They expressed anger that the IOC is refusing to intervene despite its private admission that protests could turn violent and lead to loss of life. "Either the IOC and Olympics sponsors want to avert bloodshed or they don't. It is in their power to avert a humanitarian catastrophe," Matt Whitticase, of the Free Tibet Campaign, said. "If they insist the torch goes through Tibet they will only have themselves to blame when it ends up drenched in Tibetan blood."
The IOC defended its memo as good governance. "Part of any robust crisis management preparation is to take the worst-case scenarios. We don't want them to happen but we have to prepare for everything," Giselle Davies, communications director, said. The IOC "understood the emotions" over Tibet, she added, "but it was always the case that the torch would go to all regions of China".
Bejing officials this week cancelled the press trip covering the ascent of Everest, blaming adverse weather. The IOC had said that media could cover the relay "in its entirety" but the Chinese are in charge of accreditations. No foreign journalist has operated freely in Tibet since March 14 and the region is closed to tourists.
Vincent Brossel, from Reporters Sans Frontieres, a press freedom group, said: "The restrictions are in complete contradiction with Chinese promises to the IOC. Reporters should be allowed to go to Everest freely."
Protests have followed the torch since it was lit in Athens last month, creating a public relations nightmare for organisers and sponsors.
For Japan this weekend, the three official torch sponsors - Coca-Cola, Samsung and Lenovo - have scaled down their involvement by cancelling advertising floats, over security fears.
In an open letter to Coca-Cola this week, more than 150 Tibet groups asked the US soft drinks group to use its influence to force a rerouting. Predicting violence, they cited the warning by Jampa Phuntsog, governor of the Tibetan Autonomous Region, that the Chinese authorities would "without doubt deal with these persons severely ... we will not be merciful". The IOC's Athletes' Commission condemned the protests as "counter to the values the torch stands for" and said it had "not had the peaceful passage it deserves".
Olympic sponsors came under more pressure when human rights activists gave warning that they faced a summer of protests outside their headquarters, starting this weekend. Dream for Darfur, which is campaigning for China to end its support for the regime in Sudan, said that sponsors were "silently complicit in the genocide".
THE TIMES

Nepal is not part of China, and Nepalese soldiers do not get orders from the Beijing government. The better headline in your post is misleading.

I will say that awarding the Olympics to Beijing was premature, but the decision has been made. All this protesting and boycotting is only hurting the people who have no choice in what's going on; the Chinese people. All I see on CNN and BBC (yes, I get both channels due to my cheap satellite) is the same protest footage over and over. I'm not saying what Beijing did in Tibet was right (they shouldn't have kicked out the press), but given the turbulent history between the two regions it's not a big surprise how Tibet acted and then how Beijing responded. This is not a one sided issue. Tibet essentially lost the 'war' and now is part of China. It's no different than the other land wars throughout time. The only difference is that Beijing didn't ethnically cleanse the area. Trust me, China is tame considering what it could have done to the region. I only bring that up because we all know what our...well my European ancestors did when arriving to North America. Again, I'm not justifying Beijing's actions, the European's or Tibet's, just using it to bring some perspective between East and West.
Does Tibet deserve to be free? Sure it does, but through what methods? Violence? Isn't that extremely hypocritical?

[bugsy]

and dismisses the last parliament.

And nothing of value was lost.

[Hong Kongese]

Nepal is not part of China, and Nepalese soldiers do not get orders from the Beijing government. The better headline in your post is misleading.

I will say that awarding the Olympics to Beijing was premature, but the decision has been made. All this protesting and boycotting is only hurting the people who have no choice in what's going on; the Chinese people. All I see on CNN and BBC (yes, I get both channels due to my cheap satellite) is the same protest footage over and over. I'm not saying what Beijing did in Tibet was right (they shouldn't have kicked out the press), but given the turbulent history between the two regions it's not a big surprise how Tibet acted and then how Beijing responded. This is not a one sided issue. Tibet essentially lost the 'war' and now is part of China. It's no different than the other land wars throughout time. The only difference is that Beijing didn't ethnically cleanse the area. Trust me, China is tame considering what it could have done to the region. I only bring that up because we all know what our...well my European ancestors did when arriving to North America. Again, I'm not justifying Beijing's actions, the European's or Tibet's, just using it to bring some perspective between East and West.
Does Tibet deserve to be free? Sure it does, but through what methods? Violence? Isn't that extremely hypocritical?


Can't agree more!

[Jacques]

And nothing of value was lost.

what to say but have a laugh at it, PC or LB or the others one's all the same CRAP different torching papers one uses swan the other purex and that other one recycled paper and in Quebec still uses newspapers, :yes: I know I was born there in the north. :banana: