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View Full Version : [Halifax] Nova Centre | 65-58-58 m | 16-15-14 fl | Completed


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kph06
Dec 20, 2012, 7:11 PM
I was suppose to be out Christmas shopping but ended up just walking around taking pictures of construction. The Nova Centre site is quite loud with lots of activity. The two drill trucks are almost done driving piles for the wall, and three smaller tracked directional drill rigs are working on the wall in addition to all the excavators moving material. Photos by me:
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8221/8292200462_1fa041e21f_b.jpg
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8351/8291143787_1bd062678f_b.jpg
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8218/8292198940_2a65a6ea8e_b.jpg
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8359/8292202264_c2336aeb0f_b.jpg
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8215/8291146025_f2b39e4462_b.jpg
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8357/8291145659_b380165d5d_b.jpg

DigitalNinja
Jan 14, 2013, 1:53 PM
Hasn't been a post in this in almost a month.

Blasting is set to begin on January 16th! And according to the sign that I saw should last for about 7 months. That's a lot of earth moved!

Jstaleness
Jan 24, 2013, 2:03 PM
Is anyone aware of the warning system being used here? This morning I heard what I thought was 3 boat horns followed by a loud blast. I assumed it came from there but I am used to the traditional higher pitch warning system.

sdm
Jan 24, 2013, 4:49 PM
Is anyone aware of the warning system being used here? This morning I heard what I thought was 3 boat horns followed by a loud blast. I assumed it came from there but I am used to the traditional higher pitch warning system.

Thats the system they are using, horns that is.

fenwick16
Jan 26, 2013, 1:16 PM
Looking at the webcam - http://www.novascotiawebcams.com/halifax/nova-centre-construction.html , they seem to making good headway on the excavation. Hopefully this will be well underway prior to the next provincial election. I wouldn't want this project to become a political football. I will be relieved once the footings start being poured and a crane is on site (any predictions on the first crane? - I am guessing June).

SekishikiMeikaiHa
Feb 2, 2013, 3:45 AM
A beehive of activity:
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8234/8437302072_3565c4ba9b_b.jpg

Jstaleness
Feb 2, 2013, 10:48 PM
I was down here this evening to have a pita. It was good to see them working on a late Saturday afternoon.

someone123
Feb 2, 2013, 11:43 PM
Thanks for the updates. Definitely an impressive construction site.

There's been some talk of putting up tall hoardings (~3 storeys, I guess on the Argyle side) to cut down on noise and dust.

kph06
Feb 2, 2013, 11:50 PM
They are really making good progress, photos can't really do it justice, it is a huge site. I noticed today that all the green material on the fence that obscured the view of the site is now gone.

haligonia
Feb 3, 2013, 2:03 AM
Thanks for the updates. Definitely an impressive construction site.

There's been some talk of putting up tall hoardings (~3 storeys, I guess on the Argyle side) to cut down on noise and dust.

I think this is a good idea, especially considering the number of patios that will be opening across the street in a few months.

kph06
Feb 6, 2013, 7:31 PM
Does anyone know why Ace Towing has a crane down there with a balloon on it?

Webcam link (http://www.novascotiawebcams.com/halifax/nova-centre-construction.html)

scooby074
Feb 6, 2013, 8:49 PM
Does anyone know why Ace Towing has a crane down there with a balloon on it?

Webcam link (http://www.novascotiawebcams.com/halifax/nova-centre-construction.html)

I dont think that was a balloon. In the pic I saw it looked like a work basket. Probably was being used during setup of the crane.

kph06
Feb 6, 2013, 9:51 PM
I dont think that was a balloon. In the pic I saw it looked like a work basket. Probably was being used during setup of the crane.

I drove by one the way home, definitely a red balloon with flags up the rope attached to the top of the boom, there was some sort of basket on the hook. Odd that the crane is gone now.

bluenoser
Feb 6, 2013, 10:19 PM
If you look at the 24 hour history on the webcam link, it definitely looks like a balloon (not visible in the capture below). The only thing I can think of is some sort of shadow test, since it was up in the late afternoon. Maybe the crane was supposed to represent the planned tower since it was fully extended vertically, and the balloon could have been to add the extra height to reach the equivalent of 16 floors? That's a complete guess.

http://history.novascotiawebcams.com/novacentre/3-16-11.jpg
http://history.novascotiawebcams.com/novacentre/3-16-11.jpg

scooby074
Feb 7, 2013, 4:15 AM
I drove by one the way home, definitely a red balloon with flags up the rope attached to the top of the boom, there was some sort of basket on the hook. Odd that the crane is gone now.

Interesting. I gave a scan through the webcam history and saw no balloon, just the basket. Was the balloon floating above the boom, like it was filled with helium?

Im curious myself what they were up to.

Aya_Akai
Feb 7, 2013, 6:33 AM
Interesting. I gave a scan through the webcam history and saw no balloon, just the basket. Was the balloon floating above the boom, like it was filled with helium?

Im curious myself what they were up to.

I didn't see it myself, but looking at the picture posted above, at the very tippy top of the crane, where the greyish bar is with the time on it, you can see the little flags going up, I guess it was on top lol

Edit: Went back in the cam history, I was curious to see this myself lol

http://i.imgur.com/7YqF0wt.jpg

Everyone knows, a balloon tied to a mobile crane is the international symbol for "party overr heeeeere"
http://gifsoup.com/webroot/animatedgifs/364150_o.gif

q12
Feb 7, 2013, 1:00 PM
I didn't see it myself, but looking at the picture posted above, at the very tippy top of the crane, where the greyish bar is with the time on it, you can see the little flags going up, I guess it was on top lol

Edit: Went back in the cam history, I was curious to see this myself lol

http://i.imgur.com/7YqF0wt.jpg

Everyone knows, a balloon tied to a mobile crane is the international symbol for "party overr heeeeere"
http://gifsoup.com/webroot/animatedgifs/364150_o.gif

:lmao:

I tried zooming in on the balllon and enhancing the imagine, and I found this...

http://i48.tinypic.com/npp3j7.jpg

He doesn't know when to quit.

http://www.thecoast.ca/RealityBites/archives/2013/02/05/no-permits-have-been-issued-for-new-convention-centre

worldlyhaligonian
Feb 7, 2013, 4:06 PM
That guy devalues The Coast and simply has no integrity / real journalism to offer. What a clown. This is going to happen, he's irrelevant, and quite frankly should take his opinions elsewhere to real issues.

Its funny, those who talk about the allocation of tax dollars... don't really pay into it!

JET
Feb 7, 2013, 4:27 PM
That guy devalues The Coast and simply has no integrity / real journalism to offer. What a clown. This is going to happen, he's irrelevant, and quite frankly should take his opinions elsewhere to real issues.

Its funny, those who talk about the allocation of tax dollars... don't really pay into it!

Worldly; is what he is saying untrue, or is he reporting facts? If they are facts then I find them quite intriguing. Since he writes for the COAST, he can write what he wants, since I pick up the COAST, I can choose to read it. If you find him irrelevant, why do you continue to seek out what he writes? inquiring minds needs to know. :shrug:

scooby074
Feb 7, 2013, 4:34 PM
:lmao:

I tried zooming in on the balllon and enhancing the imagine, and I found this...

http://i48.tinypic.com/npp3j7.jpg



:multibow:

coolmillion
Feb 7, 2013, 9:18 PM
Sure Bousquet is a little overzealous at times but I think we're lucky to have him as our resident shit-disturber. If the details in the article are correct, it is pretty absurd that they demolished that block of Grafton with only a temporary closure permit.

Drybrain
Feb 7, 2013, 10:51 PM
Bousquet is really one-note in his reporting, and clearly has a hit list of politicians/developers/issues he just dislikes and goes after again and again. (And, sometimes, he gets his facts wrong out of what seems to be sloppiness rather than bias.)

But he has raked up some pretty good stuff, investigative-journalism-wise. I don't believe for a second that the Nova Centre is in serious danger of not going forward, but the reporting does expose a fairly ridiculous loophole in the way development works in the city. It's only a bit more ridiculous than the fact that demolition permits can be issued without an approved development application, which is part of what's left us (and a lot of cities, to be fair) with empty holes where there was once a useful structure.

He's a useful corrective to the absurd cheerleading in the Chronicle Herald, which would have us believe that every new development project is a super-amazing opportunity, and where I get the sense the editors and reporters are a little too buddy-buddy with the property developers.

Of course it's too bad we have to consult two news sources and try to find the middle ground by reading between the lines of each.

fenwick16
Feb 7, 2013, 10:56 PM
Sure Bousquet is a little overzealous at times but I think we're lucky to have him as our resident shit-disturber. If the details in the article are correct, it is pretty absurd that they demolished that block of Grafton with only a temporary closure permit.

Luckily, as usual, his facts are wrong. The convention centre is written into the Downtown Halifax Land Use By-Law (HRM_by_Design) so it doesn't have to go before council again and doesn't require a public hearing. It can be approved under HRM_by_Design and only the qualitative elements will be considered, not the quantitative elements.

I am not sure where Tim Bousquet was when the 10 public consultations were held throughout the province? I think this project has had more input from the public than any other than I can think of (including the Central Library).

(source: http://www.halifax.ca/capitaldistrict/documents/DHLUBandDesignManual.pdf )
Publically-Sponsored Convention Centre

(15A) Notwithstanding any provision of this By-law except subsections (14) through (17) of section 8, a publically-sponsored convention centre together with retail, hotel, residential or office, and underground parking space, may be developed on the two blocks bounded by Argyle Street, Prince Street, Market Street and Sackville Street in accordance with the drawings attached as Appendix "B" to this By-law. For the purposes of this subsection, “publically-sponsored convention centre” means an establishment funded or otherwise financially supported by any or all levels of government which is used for the holding of conventions, seminars, workshops, trade shows, meetings or similar activities, and which may include dining and lodging facilities for the use of the participants as well as other compatible accessory facilities.

(15B) In addition to the requirements of subsection (15A), the requirements of subsection (6) of section 5 shall apply. The Development Officer shall refer the application for site plan approval to the Design Review Committee for their approval of the proposal's qualitative elements as set out in section 1.1 b. of the Design Manual.

someone123
Feb 8, 2013, 1:11 AM
I don't mind the idea of a reporter questioning City Hall, TCL, etc. but as fenwick16 pointed out Tim Bousquet's facts are not always correct. His articles often have the feel of twitter rants. Partisan opinions may serve as a kind of sloppy counterweight but they're not nearly as useful as thoughtful and accurate reporting.

Bousquet is really one-note in his reporting, and clearly has a hit list of politicians/developers/issues he just dislikes and goes after again and again. (And, sometimes, he gets his facts wrong out of what seems to be sloppiness rather than bias.)

He has ranted so much about certain issues that it's hard to take him seriously on any other issues. A lot of people at the Coast and a lot of activist type people in Halifax are so generally anti-development (or anti-money, anti-capitalism, whatever) that they can never view issues from a balanced perspective and offer real-world solutions. Everything is about evil developers and how the government should spend more money on stuff. That might be OK (not great) within the context of lobbying for government services like public housing but it completely fails as a city-wide outlook.

sdm
Feb 8, 2013, 1:20 AM
Worldly; is what he is saying untrue, or is he reporting facts? If they are facts then I find them quite intriguing. Since he writes for the COAST, he can write what he wants, since I pick up the COAST, I can choose to read it. If you find him irrelevant, why do you continue to seek out what he writes? inquiring minds needs to know. :shrug:

Pretty sure he is reporting facts on the constuction aspects for the most part.

All this information is more or less public, so can easily be verified.

What is remarkable is that taking out a street usually requires a period for the public to be informed and then the street is then close. neither of which has happened.

And secondly if the street is part of the development then there would either need to be a sale of the land to the developer, and or an encroachment agreement sent to council. None of those have come as of yet.

I guess we will see in the next little bit the final plans sent to HRM by design and thereafter a permit, but it appears things are being done outside the normal rules for other.

JET
Feb 8, 2013, 1:13 PM
[QUOTE=someone123;6006167]I don't mind the idea of a reporter questioning City Hall, TCL, etc. but as fenwick16 pointed out Tim Bousquet's facts are not always correct. His articles often have the feel of twitter rants. Partisan opinions may serve as a kind of sloppy counterweight but they're not nearly as useful as thoughtful and accurate reporting.




"Partisan opinions may serve as a kind of sloppy counterweight but they're not nearly as useful as thoughtful and accurate reporting."
I agree, however, I have to ask that you direct me to where in HRM I can find "thoughtful and accurate reporting." Hopefully there is such a source, otherwise it's a bit like telling me about this great cheese shop that doesn't actually have any cheese

Jstaleness
Feb 8, 2013, 4:31 PM
Another day, another fewer inches below street level. Love the cam angle for this one. Have a great view and we can even keep an eye on the TD progress.

Hali87
Feb 8, 2013, 9:38 PM
I agree, however, I have to ask that you direct me to where in HRM I can find "thoughtful and accurate reporting." Hopefully there is such a source, otherwise it's a bit like telling me about this great cheese shop that doesn't actually have any cheese

Honestly, the Coast used to be just that. I'm not sure when the quality of the journalism plummeted but I would place it sometime between 2006 and 2009. Things were also a bit better before the Daily News became Metro.

Hali87
Feb 8, 2013, 9:41 PM
a lot of activist type people in Halifax are so generally anti-development (or anti-money, anti-capitalism, whatever) that they can never view issues from a balanced perspective and offer real-world solutions. Everything is about evil developers and how the government should spend more money on stuff. That might be OK (not great) within the context of lobbying for government services like public housing but it completely fails as a city-wide outlook.

I've asked a few people about this attitude/approach, and many have readily admitted that they think the best strategy is to make unrealistic (but idealistic) demands so that if the government finally reaches a compromise with them, it will be essentially what they wanted in the first place. Really, really frustrating attitude, IMO. A lot of people simply see the government as the "enemy" or at best, the "opponent". Class warfare and all that.

Jstaleness
Feb 9, 2013, 12:09 PM
I have been watching the cam for a few mins. No activity at the Nova Site but I did notice how much the hook at the TD site was swinging in the wind. It's hard to spot with the 5sec refresh rate but noticeable otherwise.

Keith P.
Feb 9, 2013, 6:21 PM
I don't mind the idea of a reporter questioning City Hall, TCL, etc. but as fenwick16 pointed out Tim Bousquet's facts are not always correct. His articles often have the feel of twitter rants. Partisan opinions may serve as a kind of sloppy counterweight but they're not nearly as useful as thoughtful and accurate reporting.

He has ranted so much about certain issues that it's hard to take him seriously on any other issues. A lot of people at the Coast and a lot of activist type people in Halifax are so generally anti-development (or anti-money, anti-capitalism, whatever) that they can never view issues from a balanced perspective and offer real-world solutions. Everything is about evil developers and how the government should spend more money on stuff. That might be OK (not great) within the context of lobbying for government services like public housing but it completely fails as a city-wide outlook.


Look at this gem from Bousquet today, following a long, seemingly delusional rant about stores that are in malls being open on a snow day:

https://twitter.com/Tim_Bousquet/status/300268123641237504

@Tim_Bousquet If you don't want to work at you job at the mall today, just call in a bomb threat. It's not rocket science.

Holy cow.

worldlyhaligonian
Feb 9, 2013, 10:42 PM
Is he actually a Haligonian? Meaning, did he grow up in Halifax?

Sounds like somebody from Onterrible to me.

Drybrain
Feb 9, 2013, 11:01 PM
Is he actually a Haligonian? Meaning, did he grow up in Halifax?

Sounds like somebody from Onterrible to me.

He's actually from California, originally. Read all about it. (http://kjr.kingsjournalism.com/?p=13204)

scooby074
Feb 9, 2013, 11:13 PM
Look at this gem from Bousquet today, following a long, seemingly delusional rant about stores that are in malls being open on a snow day:

https://twitter.com/Tim_Bousquet/status/300268123641237504



Holy cow.

My God.. He really is a dumbass isnt he?:koko:

cormiermax
Feb 9, 2013, 11:22 PM
So hes a Yank. Figures. Does he even pay taxes?

Drybrain
Feb 10, 2013, 1:04 AM
So hes a Yank. Figures. Does he even pay taxes?

Probably. Anyone who resides in Canada more than 183 days per year and earns income in the country is required to pay Canadian taxes, citizen or not. Anyway, I don't think that should be a grounds for criticism. Lord knows the U.S. sucked up enough Canadians during the mid-century brain drains, we shouldn't begrudge Americans coming here.

Wishblade
Feb 10, 2013, 1:23 AM
Probably. Anyone who resides in Canada more than 183 days per year and earns income in the country is required to pay Canadian taxes, citizen or not. Anyway, I don't think that should be a grounds for criticism. Lord knows the U.S. sucked up enough Canadians during the mid-century brain drains, we shouldn't begrudge Americans coming here.

If Bousquet represents the majority of Americans coming here, it doesn't seem like a very fair trade off lol.

cormiermax
Feb 10, 2013, 2:19 AM
Probably. Anyone who resides in Canada more than 183 days per year and earns income in the country is required to pay Canadian taxes, citizen or not. Anyway, I don't think that should be a grounds for criticism. Lord knows the U.S. sucked up enough Canadians during the mid-century brain drains, we shouldn't begrudge Americans coming here.

Still, seems very strange for a non-Canadian to be dictating where tax dollars should go.

worldlyhaligonian
Feb 10, 2013, 11:13 AM
He's actually from California, originally. Read all about it. (http://kjr.kingsjournalism.com/?p=13204)

Even worse, not even a Canadian telling us what to think!

Deport this clown to New York, he'll shit a brick.

eastcoastal
Feb 10, 2013, 1:32 PM
Still, seems very strange for a non-Canadian to be dictating where tax dollars should go.

Not defending him.... But... doesn't matter where he was born and raised, he can still have opinions about taxes and what should be done with them. There are plenty of Canadians with stupid ideas about plenty of things. Let's try not to attach the validity of a person's opinions to something like where they were born.

cormiermax
Feb 10, 2013, 2:32 PM
Not defending him.... But... doesn't matter where he was born and raised, he can still have opinions about taxes and what should be done with them. There are plenty of Canadians with stupid ideas about plenty of things. Let's try not to attach the validity of a person's opinions to something like where they were born.

Its not just where he was born though, he was living in the states up until not too long ago and isn't even Canadian.

Just seems strange, I doubt the Americans would be OK with a Canadian doing the same thing.

Antigonish
Feb 10, 2013, 3:48 PM
Its not just where he was born though, he was living in the states up until not too long ago and isn't even Canadian.

Just seems strange, I doubt the Americans would be OK with a Canadian doing the same thing.

They certainly aren't fond of Piers Morgan..

worldlyhaligonian
Feb 10, 2013, 9:24 PM
Not defending him.... But... doesn't matter where he was born and raised, he can still have opinions about taxes and what should be done with them. There are plenty of Canadians with stupid ideas about plenty of things. Let's try not to attach the validity of a person's opinions to something like where they were born.

Even if his points were valid, the concept is that his opinions shouldn't really have influence because he isn't really as invested. Know what I mean?

ILoveHalifax
Feb 11, 2013, 12:27 AM
They certainly aren't fond of Piers Morgan..

I don't think that Americans dislike Piers Morgan because he is not American. I think it is because he just does not do his job well. I hope they get rid of him soon.

RyeJay
Feb 11, 2013, 12:59 AM
I don't think that Americans dislike Piers Morgan because he is not American. I think it is because he just does not do his job well. I hope they get rid of him soon.

His views, particularly about guns, are supported by a vast majority of Americans.

His ratings on CNN will ensure he continues.

A minority of Americans dislike Piers Morgan because they are obsessed with manipulating the Second Amendment (or as it should be known: the second modification of their imperfect constitution).

RyeJay
Feb 11, 2013, 1:22 AM
Getting back on topic: I've noticed the Nova Centre is generating a considerable amount of 'buzz' in downtown Halifax. The blasting that has been ongoing is being noticed by both core residents and office employees (which is certainly reflected on twitter and facebook); however, I haven't noticed any negative comments, which has surprised me.

People seem to be pleased about the noise and vibrations, even if their apartment is shaking from the explosions!

I suppose after years of this dead site, people are relieved to see activity again. Yes, I believe the general consensus is that people are enthusiastic about the new Central Library, but I think the Nova Centre has been a game changer in terms of the city's attitude toward development. To Haligonians, the Centre is going to feel like a 'big city' project. :)

I will also be interested in seeing if the provincial Liberals and/or PC's use the Nova Centre as fodder in their attacks on the NDP, although I have my doubts about an election this year.

fenwick16
Feb 11, 2013, 3:22 AM
I will also be interested in seeing if the provincial Liberals and/or PC's use the Nova Centre as fodder in their attacks on the NDP, although I have my doubts about an election this year.

Possibly the Liberals might. However, I think the Conservatives should take as much credit for supporting the convention centre as possible. If it weren't for the election win by the NDP then the convention centre probably would have been under way about 2 years earlier.

Here is an image from May 2009 (source: http://metronews.ca/news/halifax/85059/plans-for-new-convention-centre-unveiled/ )

http://metronewsca.files.wordpress.com/2012/05/9f73bc444f1aa3935567e86c9874.jpeg?w=400&h=300&crop=1

RyeJay
Feb 11, 2013, 5:12 AM
Possibly the Liberals might. However, I think the Conservatives should take as much credit for supporting the convention centre as possible. If it weren't for the election win by the NDP then the convention centre probably would have been under way about 2 years earlier.

You're right; I should just say 'Conservatives'. 'Progressive Conservatives' is an oxymoronic term.

We will find out how Conservative politicians pander to rural areas of the province (as all parties pander). With economic conditions as they are today in small town Nova Scotia, it is quite easy to generate anti-convention centre narratives and point fingers at the current party in power. Of course the cons cannot claim they are against the centre, but they can claim that now isn't the time to invest in something that immediately only seems to benefit Halifax. The better time for a convention centre was years ago. Since that time has passed, a better time would be years down the road, once the economy has recovered, yadda yadda...

In terms of renderings, are we likely finished with receiving previews of what this development may look like?

RyeJay
Feb 12, 2013, 1:42 PM
Edit.

Haliguy
Feb 12, 2013, 3:21 PM
You're right; I should just say 'Conservatives'. 'Progressive Conservatives' is an oxymoronic term.



Not really...one can be socially progressive but yet fiscally conservative..which I believe is the intent in the name.

RyeJay
Feb 12, 2013, 4:31 PM
Not really...one can be socially progressive but yet fiscally conservative..which I believe is the intent in the name.

Maybe at some point we need to begin a separate thread for Nova Scotia's provincial election, because I'm interested in learning about the track record of fiscal conservatism and social progressiveness of the PC's.

eastcoastal
Feb 12, 2013, 4:35 PM
Even if his points were valid, the concept is that his opinions shouldn't really have influence because he isn't really as invested. Know what I mean?

In an increasingly globalized world, ideas are less and less constrained by lines on a map.

Haliguy
Feb 12, 2013, 5:16 PM
Maybe at some point we need to begin a separate thread for Nova Scotia's provincial election, because I'm interested in learning about the track record of fiscal conservatism and social progressiveness of the PC's.

I said it is the intent of the name however the realities of politics it may not show in the track record.;)

MonctonRad
Feb 12, 2013, 5:44 PM
Not really...one can be socially progressive but yet fiscally conservative..which I believe is the intent in the name.

Progressive conservatives exist, and yes, that is the intent of the name, to be socially progressive but fiscally conservative, perhaps with a touch of being respectful of traditions as well.....

Red Tories are not much different than Blue Liberals. They both exist, both belong to the political centre, but have slightly different allegiances.

I personally am sad that Canadian politics have become so polarized. The political right and left are controlled by extremists now, which I don't view as a healthy situation. Politics should be in the art of compromise. This is difficult to do when you have contempt for your opponents point of view....

NBNYer
Feb 12, 2013, 6:09 PM
I personally am sad that Canadian politics have become so polarized. The political right and left are controlled by extremists now, which I don't view as a healthy situation. Politics should be in the art of compromise. This is difficult to do when you have contempt for your opponents point of view....

You should turn on CNN. Guaranteed you'll feel much better about Canadian politics afterwards. :haha:

MonctonRad
Feb 12, 2013, 6:30 PM
You should turn on CNN. Guaranteed you'll feel much better about Canadian politics afterwards. :haha:

FOX is much worse.... ;)

Haliguy
Feb 12, 2013, 7:00 PM
Progressive conservatives exist, and yes, that is the intent of the name, to be socially progressive but fiscally conservative, perhaps with a touch of being respectful of traditions as well.....

Red Tories are not much different than Blue Liberals. They both exist, both belong to the political centre, but have slightly different allegiances.

I personally am sad that Canadian politics have become so polarized. The political right and left are controlled by extremists now, which I don't view as a healthy situation. Politics should be in the art of compromise. This is difficult to do when you have contempt for your opponents point of view....

I agree... not likeing the way Canadian politics are going. The centre is disapearing which is prob why the libs have been reduced to a third place party. I feel it is a trend not just in Canada and the States but Europe as well.

RyeJay
Feb 12, 2013, 10:19 PM
Progressive conservatives exist, and yes, that is the intent of the name, to be socially progressive but fiscally conservative, perhaps with a touch of being respectful of traditions as well.....

Red Tories are not much different than Blue Liberals. They both exist, both belong to the political centre, but have slightly different allegiances.

I personally am sad that Canadian politics have become so polarized. The political right and left are controlled by extremists now, which I don't view as a healthy situation. Politics should be in the art of compromise. This is difficult to do when you have contempt for your opponents point of view....

Conservative, Liberal, Red Tory, Blue Grit, Right, Left...

I find all the labels somewhat useless, as our way of associating certain positions of the various issues can be quite subjective through this categorisation. Women's rights used to be an 'extreme left' issue -- but now, Conservatives support most forms of women's rights. Rapid climate change, politically, tends to be spun as a 'left' issue. Being conservative about the environment is apparently not a 'Conservative' priority.

Our politics, increasingly, are becoming corporatised. We aren't at the horrendous level of manipulation that we see in the United States. This, still, does nothing for my confidence.

I would vote for Harper (or, rather, the local Conservative MP), if his policies were evidence based (which most of them certainly are not). I don't dislike Harper because he's Conservative; in fact, I have voted for Conservative candidates before.

Politics is far too much like sports. People pick a team, and then keep supporting that team, regardless of new information.

Canadians should feel open to voting for any of our parties.

hoser111
Feb 12, 2013, 11:22 PM
There's already a section called "Business, Politics & the Economy"..... perhaps this conversation can migrate over there?

RyeJay
Feb 12, 2013, 11:29 PM
Agreed. We're getting off topic.

worldlyhaligonian
Feb 13, 2013, 12:54 PM
In an increasingly globalized world, ideas are less and less constrained by lines on a map.

Doesn't mean they have value?

His extrapolation of issues in other places is totally misguided.

eastcoastal
Feb 14, 2013, 12:00 PM
Doesn't mean they have value?

His extrapolation of issues in other places is totally misguided.

That is a fair statement. I really wasn't defending his work, but something about the tone of don't-trust-them-dang-come-from-aways-cause-their-heads-is-fulla-fanciness just struck me as a little inappropriate.

worldlyhaligonian
Feb 14, 2013, 2:04 PM
That is a fair statement. I really wasn't defending his work, but something about the tone of don't-trust-them-dang-come-from-aways-cause-their-heads-is-fulla-fanciness just struck me as a little inappropriate.

Don't worry, I don't trust people's opinions from Halifax on the same level... but they are from there, so there is some merit in that regard.

He could just leave once he pisses too many people off and find some other illegitimate media outlet and start all over again. Maybe he should move to Saskatoon, they have many NIMBYs as well.

SekishikiMeikaiHa
Feb 16, 2013, 6:29 AM
Quite a pit:
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8519/8478316346_685c4d10a0_b.jpg

fenwick16
Feb 16, 2013, 8:58 AM
Quite a pit:


Nice perspective. Your picture indicates the enormous amount of additional excavation that is required. I expect the retaining wall in the background of your picture to be at least 70 feet tall when excavation is complete (I wonder if additional reinforcement will be required for the retaining wall?)

This makes me appreciate all the excavation that must have been required for Scotia Square, which has a larger footprint (but maybe Scotia Square wasn't required to be as deep - I am not sure?)

someone123
Feb 27, 2013, 2:14 AM
That perspective is interesting. It's easier to appreciate the scale of the site from that angle. Here's a recent webcam shot:

http://history.novascotiawebcams.com/novacentre/2-11-01.jpg
http://www.novascotiawebcams.com/halifax/nova-centre-construction-history.html

Looks like they will soon be down to the Argyle Street level from the Market Street side. I seem to recall that they will go down 70 feet, but I'm not sure if that's from Argyle or Market.

Aya_Akai
Feb 27, 2013, 3:28 AM
...I seem to recall that they will go down 70 feet, but I'm not sure if that's from Argyle or Market.

I heard that as well.. I figure that'll probably be from the upper side, on Market, but still the elevation difference between the 2 streets is 15-20 feet along the site, so even if that's the case, you're still looking at a 50-55 foot hole on the Argyle side, still pretty impressive.

fenwick16
Feb 27, 2013, 4:23 AM
It will be interesting to see the final renderings. Since they changed the design to move the ballroom above ground, they won't have to excavate as deep as when the design had most of the exhibition hall and ballroom sunken (plus a couple of levels of parking).

Based on the rendering below, it appears as though it will be 50 - 55 feet below the Grafton Street level and possibly only about 40-45 feet below Argyle Street (assuming two levels of parking and 30 foot ceiling height of the exhibit hall). Grafton Street appears to be level with the top of the exhibition hall ceiling structure. It appears as though there is still a significant amount of excavation remaining (based on the webcam shot by someone123).

(source: http://buildyourcentre.ca/ )
http://buildyourcentre.ca/img/fin/p4render2.jpg

SekishikiMeikaiHa
Mar 2, 2013, 5:40 AM
Update:

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8507/8519491351_a1114e4912_b.jpg

fenwick16
Mar 2, 2013, 12:52 PM
It looks like excavation will take many more months. But once the design plans are complete, then maybe they can start pouring concrete once it is partially excavated (the way it was done with the Waterside). Any guesses on the first concrete pour? My guess is around the end of July (2013).

The good thing about Halifax being built on bedrock is that residents don't have to worry about natural sink holes such as what happens in Florida.

Jonovision
Mar 2, 2013, 3:15 PM
PS if anyone likes a good cup of coffee or tasty treat Le French Fix just recently opened on Prince street where JW Books used to be. It's a great place to sip a cup and watch the construction. They have a great view.

sdm
Mar 2, 2013, 3:38 PM
It looks like excavation will take many more months. But once the design plans are complete, then maybe they can start pouring concrete once it is partially excavated (the way it was done with the Waterside). Any guesses on the first concrete pour? My guess is around the end of July (2013).

The good thing about Halifax being built on bedrock is that residents don't have to worry about natural sink holes such as what happens in Florida.

Depends Fenwick. Again not to be a "hater", but to share how the process typically works.

In order to begin pouring they will need to submit there plans in order to be presented a building permit. Before that they will need to submit to HRM by design (only the height is singled out in HRM by design). Who knows what if any changes will be required by the design review committee.

Once those are completed then they can build. When that will happen, who knows, but seeing how most of the time this process take 3-6 months july is somewhat tight.

RyeJay
Mar 2, 2013, 3:49 PM
Any guesses on the first concrete pour? My guess is around the end of July (2013).

I'll guess late August of this year.

KnoxfordGuy
Mar 4, 2013, 8:15 PM
I want it built now! haha, that is the downside of waiting for buildings to go up. It takes forever it seems!

bluenoser
Mar 4, 2013, 8:48 PM
One cool thing about this project is that, if the reviews go well and a permit is issued fairly quickly, there will be a very short time between final designs and the first concrete pour. As opposed to the other extreme where say, a new proposal could sit around for awhile depending on economics, plus the approval period, plus preparations and excavation, and if the design isn't updated it could already be several years old by the time construction even begins.
*Though in the case of the Alexander, I would be okay with that.

bluenoser
Mar 4, 2013, 8:54 PM
Update:

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8507/8519491351_a1114e4912_b.jpg

The Market St. retaining wall is shaping up to be one of the tallest structures in downtown Halifax, lol.

OldDartmouthMark
Mar 4, 2013, 9:17 PM
PS if anyone likes a good cup of coffee or tasty treat Le French Fix just recently opened on Prince street where JW Books used to be. It's a great place to sip a cup and watch the construction. They have a great view.

Thanks for the tip! I'll check it out soon! :cheers:

q12
Mar 11, 2013, 3:26 PM
Not sure if this was posted yet:

www.halifax2016.ca (http://www.halifax2016.ca)

bluenoser
Mar 11, 2013, 5:36 PM
^Thanks for posting. Looking at the floor plans, it's good that the main convention space and ballroom are in the corner that's under a viewplane, because a tower probably couldn't be there anyway (due to all the support columns being in the way of convention space). Another benefit is the possibility of some sort of skylight(s) on the ceiling of the ballroom.

On another note, I can't tell where the entrance and ramps will be for the parkade down below.

musicman
Mar 12, 2013, 2:30 AM
What is the deal with everybody worrying about letting light into the ball room/meeting rooms/convention room? Every time i go into a room to do something in a ball room or other room the first thing we are asked and do is block as much light as possible from getting into the room.. The design of this new centre will add thousands of dollars to production costs...

gm_scott
Mar 12, 2013, 8:05 AM
What is the deal with everybody worrying about letting light into the ball room/meeting rooms/convention room? Every time i go into a room to do something in a ball room or other room the first thing we are asked and do is block as much light as possible from getting into the room.. The design of this new centre will add thousands of dollars to production costs...
Thats what I was wondering and is the reason why I actually liked the first proposal that had the ballroom underground. They started to do consultation, ask a bunch of people that probably hadn't been to a convention in their lives, and now we have this. I rather enjoyed Grafton street in the earlier proposal as well. Now I am afraid we'll end up with a dark under-used overpass looking space. Yes the materials and design weren't the best but they had those two elements correct.

Keith P.
Mar 12, 2013, 10:34 AM
The whole "OMG!! The convention center is underground!!" false alarm was just another smokescreen thrown up the the "Save the View" obstructionists to try to derail the project. Red herring. A very expensive red herring.

beyeas
Mar 12, 2013, 3:42 PM
The whole "OMG!! The convention center is underground!!" false alarm was just another smokescreen thrown up the the "Save the View" obstructionists to try to derail the project. Red herring. A very expensive red herring.

Exactly. It boggles the mind that a vocal minority managed to push onto the agenda the need for a convention floor to have natural light. I have never ever seen a conventional floor that had windows, for good reason.

I am currently in the midst of helping to organize a conference here in Halifax for next year, for about 750 people. The presentations will all involve showing medical images, and just about the last thing we would want is background light when people are trying to examine projected greyscale images!!!

I get why the SVT folk were making the argument, as they were trying to derail it. What really baffled me was other developers/architects who also jumped on the bandwagon that it was a "bunker".

worldlyhaligonian
Mar 12, 2013, 4:00 PM
Yeah, plus no matter what happens people who are against the "idea" of the convention centre will disagree with it.

someone123
Mar 12, 2013, 4:11 PM
This is one of the problems with public consultation I guess. People don't always know design constraints or costs and not everybody can be expected to act in good faith. That is why you normally ask people what they like general terms or you look at existing buildings and then leave the decisions up to architects.

That being said, my guess is this isn't actually such a big challenge if they allowed the design.

ScovaNotian
Mar 12, 2013, 4:14 PM
The meeting rooms and exhibition space appear to be largely windowless, no? The concourses have windows. It is there people tend to chat and receptions are held. I've been to both above and below ground conference centres, and the above ground ones were vastly more pleasant.

beyeas
Mar 12, 2013, 6:33 PM
The meeting rooms and exhibition space appear to be largely windowless, no? The concourses have windows. It is there people tend to chat and receptions are held. I've been to both above and below ground conference centres, and the above ground ones were vastly more pleasant.

I agree that having some reception type area with windows is great, but that didn't have to mean that the main convention floor had to be moved to over the street level. Sunlight in public areas is definitely great... heck, my favourite convention centre to go to is the one on Waikiki Beach because outside the meeting/convention rooms it is all open air. But what I disagreed with was that it was somehow better to have a convention floor that now creates a huge tunnel over Grafton, rather than having a convention floor below grade with reception space above combined with a Grafton Street that wasn't an entire block of darkness.

RyeJay
Mar 12, 2013, 6:39 PM
But what I disagreed with was that it was somehow better to have a convention floor that now creates a huge tunnel over Grafton, rather than having a convention floor below grade with reception space above combined with a Grafton Street that wasn't an entire block of darkness.

We will have to see if they'll install enough (and the proper kinds of) lighting, even for throughout the daytime. The ceiling for Grafton Street, at least, won't at all feel too short.

ScovaNotian
Mar 12, 2013, 7:10 PM
I'm not sure below ground conference facilities are marketable anymore. That this doesn't bode well for Grafton I can see, and I am worried how it turns out myself. I'd like to have seen the casino replaced by a convention centre.

bluenoser
Mar 12, 2013, 7:40 PM
What is the deal with everybody worrying about letting light into the ball room/meeting rooms/convention room?

I wasn't really that worried and I only mentioned the ballroom, not the meeting / exhibition space downstairs. Now that I think of it, I did make some assumptions which I should clarify:
- that the wall of windows currently planned for the ballroom will have automatic blinds
- the venue will have high quality (i.e. high contrast) projectors
- projection screens won't be positioned against the windows
- since the opportunity is there, adding a skylight(s) would make for an interesting feature without adding a huge amount of cost and complexity. In retrospect, I realize that a skylight might not be totally appropriate for the space.

I am all for the ballroom above-ground though. Obviously the main space below ground will be best for the bulk of conventions and presumably the ballroom will be supplementary to that. As a meeting space, it can either be divided into 3 spaces (where only one would have natural light) or one large one (where the natural light is only on one wall).

The important thing to me is that it can also double as a very nice large event venue - something which (imo) Halifax doesn't really have. I realize this is subjective, but I would be much more proud to host a classy event, such as a high profile speaker at a fundraiser dinner, in an above-ground ballroom with views of the city - particularly from the atrium, which I also consider a very important area. Otherwise I might even prefer a different venue like the Cunard Centre over a below-grade space for such an event. As it is, the ballroom distinguishes the two areas, and sets the Nova Centre apart from at least some other cities' venues to prospective conference planners.

Cost-wise, It's likely more expensive to build this room above ground but at least it saves on excavation/blasting. And again, who knows but if someone picking conference venues thinks as crazily as I do, it could even make a difference in income once in awhile. As for the public consultation, well the public is paying for most of this so it's not totally offside (even if most ideas aren't implemented). And I do have a bit of faith in the general population and even more in the developer so I don't think moving the ballroom was a blind decision with no consideration to the budget or impact on the function of the space. Also, it would seem odd to me to invest so much money and interest into a convention centre that will essentially be completely underground. To me, the ballroom is an appreciable centrepiece to what is billed as a gathering place for the province.

It's worth noting that the Telus Convention Centre in Calgary has a very similar setup with the main conference area below ground and a large 'fancier' space on the 2nd floor used for dinners, etc. which also features an all-glass wall. I don't know if anyone else has been there but I think the upstairs room has a far nicer feel to it and I have not had any problems with seeing the screens.

I don't claim to be any sort of expert, I'm just throwing out opinions!


We will have to see if they'll install enough (and the proper kinds of) lighting, even for throughout the daytime. The ceiling for Grafton Street, at least, won't at all feel too short.

I agree: the cover doesn't have to mean the street will be dingy but like anything else, it comes down to how well it's done.


I'd like to have seen the casino replaced by a convention centre.

I was originally hoping for a waterfront convention centre as well, just for the reason of making a unique space that relates to our city as opposed to having everything underground, which looks pretty much the same in every city. Nonetheless, even in its current location I think the above-ground component accomplishes that and is in a good central location to boot.

Haligonian88
Mar 15, 2013, 12:58 AM
A new article from CH:

TAYLOR: Nova Centre opposition still fuelling rumour mill
March 14, 2013 - 7:30pm BY ROGER TAYLOR BUSINESS COLUMNIST
http://thechronicleherald.ca/sites/default/files/imagecache/ch_article_main_image/articles/B97158114Z.120130314192951000G7V2GUA1.11.jpg

Rank Inc. CEO Joe Ramia can’t understand how some people would think he would spend in excess of $15 million excavating the former Herald lands in downtown Halifax and not build the much-anticipated Nova Centre as planned.

Yet that seems to be a rumour circulating throughout the city.

For someone to suggest that excavation is just for show may seem ridiculous, but it is another indication that opposition to the Nova Centre still hasn’t given up, despite the one-million-square-foot complex officially being announced last spring.

...
...
...

He is aiming to have the plans finished within 30 days.

“The decision to move the convention centre from below ground … was a big decision, but another big thing was moving the entrance to the parking garage from Argyle Street to Grafton.

“The parking garage decision meant there is not one single thing that has been maintained from the original design … not one thing.”

The construction work will start with the footings and foundation, and then the parking garage, says Ramia, followed by the convention centre, which will span nearly the whole city block from Argyle to Market Street.

“We’re still aiming to finish construction by the end of 2015.”

http://thechronicleherald.ca/business/990550-taylor-nova-centre-opposition-still-fuelling-rumour-mill

worldlyhaligonian
Mar 15, 2013, 1:28 AM
The anti-development people (aka those against the NC and everything else) have to be the sorest losers ever in the history of humanity.

Give up! Its getting built.

One of my favorite trade centres
http://www.panoramio.com/photo/15162274

fenwick16
Mar 15, 2013, 1:45 AM
One commenter "SickOfThis" and his comment sounds so much like Tim B. and one of his old stories in The Coast.

One of the best things about this Nova Centre going forward is that for a change the anti-development group was shown to be just a loud vocal minority and their squeaky-wheel approach lost. PS: It will be great to see the permits approved and foundations poured so that the vocal minority will finally realize that they are in the minority - I am looking forward to see Halifax continue to move forward.

teddifax
Mar 15, 2013, 3:25 AM
One commenter "SickOfIt" and his comment sounds so much like Tim B. and one of his old stories in The Coast.

One of the best things about this Nova Centre going forward is that for a change the anti-development group was shown to be just a loud vocal minority and their squeaky-wheel approach lost. PS: It will be great to see the permits approved and foundations poured so that the vocal minority will finally realize that they are in the minority - I am looking forward to see Halifax continue to move forward.

I,too, am so tired of all the naysayers and look very much forward to this center being built as well as all the other developments in the area!!!

Aya_Akai
Mar 15, 2013, 3:28 AM
I was walking around downtown today just checking things out, various projects around etc, took a walk down Argyle heading up to Strange Adventures and just happened to be walking by as they started to clear the site/area for a fairly big blast. This was the first I got to see of it in person, I must say, it was pretty awesome.

halifaxboyns
Mar 15, 2013, 4:00 PM
This project and to a certain extent Waterside (and maybe even HbD in it's totality) were the big game changers for HRM.

HbD made the process easier - gave more certainty to land owners/developers and made the process to appeal more difficult. While I don't want to call it punishment for people really wanting to stop progress, frankly I can honestly say it was (in my mind) and it was about time.

While I envy you guys being able to walk around and see all this (I can only see it in pictures or when I visit) I think HbD was the biggest game changer and now with the Regional Centre plan a lot of this anti-development sentiment will have 1 crack at being heard and that's it. That will be at the land use (zoning) approval stage; where it should be. Once the zoning is there - that's it; the decision is made and off you go...

HbD helped create a much clearer picture of what downtown was going to be. HRM's regional centre plan will also do the same - densification where it's appropriate, taller buildings in key areas and midrise along the corridors. If you think there is a lot of activity now, wait until the Regional Centre Plan is done!

kph06
Mar 20, 2013, 11:53 PM
2 photos from a few days ago:

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8528/8572650185_e6393248ef_b.jpg
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8098/8573744004_bdf63d8693_b.jpg

fenwick16
Mar 21, 2013, 2:29 AM
:previous: That is an awe-inspiring perspective of the excavation. It looks like they have about another 15-20 feet to go below the Market Street level; however, I am just guessing based on these renderings - http://www.halifax2016.ca/?utm_expid=68533594-0&utm_referrer=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.wtcchalifax.com%2Fen%2Fhome%2Fdefault.aspx

I wonder if they will start the ground floors along Argyle Street (parking levels and exhibition hall) and then build west towards Market Street prior to completing the Market Street excavation? If so, they could use the concrete structure to support the Market Street retaining wall and then do the final excavation. Otherwise, if they do all the excavation prior to starting construction then they would have almost a 70 foot retaining wall along Market Street to support.

Any guesses on how the Market Street retaining wall will be supported? It seems like a monumental task.

Haligonian88
Mar 21, 2013, 2:38 AM
Any guesses on how the Market Street retaining wall will be supported? It seems like a monumental task.

I'm guessing they'll use tiebacks if there aren't a significant amount of utilities buried beneath market street that deep.

fenwick16
Mar 21, 2013, 2:46 AM
I'm guessing they'll use tiebacks if there aren't a significant amount of utilities buried beneath market street that deep.

Thanks Haligonian88. It will be interesting to watch how it is done. I found some images to illustrate the concept of tiebacks that you mentioned (are the current retaining walls supported this way since it seems reasonable that they would be?).

(source: http://www.deepexcavation.com/en/anchored-walls-tiebacks-anchors )
http://www.deepexcavation.com/uploads/library/tiebacks4.jpg