[Sekkle]

Being a civil engineer, I’m pretty interested in transportation and transit in particular (although the actual work I do usually involves more highway and street design than transit, unfortunately). I love transit maps and I’ve tried to collect as many as possible (mostly in electronic form) from cities around the world. So in my free time at work I decided to draw a map of possible future transit service in the Portland area. I started with a more geographically accurate map, but thought it might look cooler if I did a diagrammatic version. Most of the service shown in this map is either existing, in the planning or construction phase, or has been mentioned in TriMet/Metro reports (the RTP, etc). There are some, though, that I just thought would be cool, so I drew them in. Here it is (you can click on the map for a much larger version if you can’t read the text)…

http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj223/Brizzle78/Portland/wholemap4.jpg (http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj223/Brizzle78/Portland/wholemap1.jpg)

A few notes about the map…

- I didn’t include streetcar lines because I thought it would get too cluttered.

- Heavier lines indicate service that currently exists or is under construction or planning (I didn’t include the CRC in this category, but probably should have).

- Service that hasn’t reached the planning stages (and some that may never get there because I just made them up) is in a lighter line weight.

- I’m not sure if the Milwaukie LRT will actually be a yellow line extension, but I drew it that way. I’ve seen drawings that made it look like a yellow line and others that made it look orange.

- The “Orange Line” has not been chosen (as far as I’m aware) as the color for the Barbur/I-5 light rail, I just thought the map could use some orange (it looks brown in the image, but looked orange when I drew it in CAD). Same goes for the “Grey Line.”

- The Powell/Foster “Grey Line” was mentioned in the RTP as a BRT line, extending to Damascus, but I thought the map would look cooler if it were LRT to Clackamas TC. :D

- I drew new commuter rail lines in pink/purple.

- New stations are in parentheses.

- I haven’t drawn a city center map yet.

- The lines I basically just made up are the St. Johns Yellow Line branch, the I-5 South to Boones Ferry Orange Line branch, the East Vancouver Red Line branch (I did see a map from the 80s that listed this as a possibility, but haven’t seen anything in current documents about it), the Bethany Red Line branch, the Blue Line Express, and the TV highway commuter rail. All the others were mentioned as possibilities for future high capacity transit in the RTP or somewhere else (though I made up the station locations on some of them).

So what do you think? What areas did I leave out that should have rail service? Does anyone else have a “fantasy transit map” for Portland? Feel free to post it if you do.

[MarkDaMan]

I think it looks great!

I know what people think about the 'couver. I like to give those fuckers a hard time too, but, they (or possibly TriMet) have an extensive line planned running it up I-5 across SR-500 and back down the 205 to the Red Line.

That could spawn new lines up there too.

I'd also thow in a line to Damasucks, maybe on your Grey line...

Thanks! Great visual.

[bvpcvm]

nice job! of course, trimet would probably add twice as many stations, just to make sure the trains didn't run too fast (rolling eyes).

i did see a metro document about 6 months ago that listed all kinds of projects for down the road (i think it might be one of their 2035 transportation plan documents - or something to do with JPACT) and one of them was an extension of the red line up to amberglen.

oh and one other project you could add - commuter rail to scappoose and st helens. if you're feeling ambitious.

[rsbear]

Awesome and very well thought out. Nice job!

[PuyoPiyo]

I like it! :)

[joeplayer1989]

omg that Tanasbourne Bethany extension came to me in a dream!!! i love it!!!!!!!

[IHEARTPDX]

Wow that's gorgeous and well thought out!
Although I would love to see 2 more extensions: Newberg to McMinnville, and something to Scapoose/St. Helens perhaps?
What are your ideas for subway lines downtown/eastside? I'd love to see those too.

[WonderlandPark]

Hope the downtown inset map shows some underground MAX lines, very important, IMO

nice map:tup:

[Sekkle]

Thanks, guys. I'll add commuter rail to St. Helens, extend the Newberg one to McMinville and expand the Vancouver ones a little.

What are your ideas for subway lines downtown/eastside?
I have wondered about something like that... I think it's a long, long time off, but it would be great to see. I was thinking that, maybe by removing a couple MAX stops downtown and shifting one or two, they could fit three-car trains, at least on the Blue/Red lines and increase capacity a bit. My thought was - move the Oak/1st stop to beneath the Morrison Bridge overpass, get rid of the Morrison/3rd, Yamhill and Old Town stops. But that still leaves the Mall, Pioneer Courthouse Square and Galleria stops, two of which are pretty important for transfers... maybe that part could be grade separated somehow.

[rsbear]

Thanks, guys. I'll add commuter rail to St. Helens, extend the Newberg one to McMinville and expand the Vancouver ones a little.


I have wondered about something like that... I think it's a long, long time off, but it would be great to see. I was thinking that, maybe by removing a couple MAX stops downtown and shifting one or two, they could fit three-car trains, at least on the Blue/Red lines and increase capacity a bit. My thought was - move the Oak/1st stop to beneath the Morrison Bridge overpass, get rid of the Morrison/3rd, Yamhill and Old Town stops. But that still leaves the Mall, Pioneer Courthouse Square and Galleria stops, two of which are pretty important for transfers... maybe that part could be grade separated somehow.

Here are some ideas you could incorporate into your downtown insert map:

A subway running the entire length of downtown along 5th and 6th provide MAX service downtown, and greatly increase through-traffic spead:

Trains coming in along the Banfield would enter a subway immediately upon exiting the freeway. Those trains would be underground along Holiday, under the river, and then along fifth and sixth. Trains coming in from Sunset TC would enter a tunnel just east of the Goose Hollow stop and join up with the 5th/6th avenue subways around Columbia. Tricky engineering on that one, but I'm planning here. Trains to Milwaukie would go underground at Front and Lincoln and stay underground west to the 5th/6th subway. Trains coming along Barbur would either have to leap the 405 and then dive to join the subway or would have to dive deep before the 405 and then come up a bit to meet the 5th/6th subway.

The existing MAX tracks from Goose Hollow to Lloyd Center becomes a Streetcar loop. The surface tracks now being placed on 5th and 6th would also become Streetcar surface.

[Sekkle]

Ok, I added a couple commuter lines, and extended some of the other stuff I had shown before. I’ll probably work on the City Center/potential subway stuff another day, since I'm pretty busy at work today. (this map is clickable, too, if you want a bigger version).

http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj223/Brizzle78/Portland/wholemap4-n.jpg (http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj223/Brizzle78/Portland/wholemap1-n.jpg)

[NJD]

^ Nice work! I think you have nailed the MAX and commuter rail expansions perfectly in the Portland area.

I just threw together a map of expanded passenger rail service for western Oregon as a complimentary piece. What do you think? The blue is Amtrak Cascades high-speed intercity service, red is local and express services on existing track, and yellow are potential lines that would require some new track.
http://images.tribe.net/tribe/upload/photo/641/3ac/6413ac1b-598e-4ee6-85c4-0aecf66db9bb

[PuyoPiyo]

Nice work, ForAtEOh! I would assume this would be the future after Mayor Pollard successfully got light rails reach to Vancouver.

NJD, that would be a big project!

[portlandexpos04]

where did you get that base map? Its super clean.

[bvpcvm]

where did you get that base map? Its super clean.

googlemaps/terrain

[Tim the Enchanter]

Nice maps ForAteOh.

What is the CRC btw?

[MarkDaMan]

Columbia River Crossing...

You know, for the $4B something for the CRC, I think $4B would get close to paying for all those lines, exluding the already in the works Milwaukie, no? And even some prelim subway work!

[NJD]

^ yep, but the 'couv nor the feds at this point in our history would allow for such a progressive Mt. Hood Highway-esque reverting funds plan.

[MarkDaMan]

Hmmmm...It was even more revolutionary then, I think it could be done.

Maybe I need a hobby, and Sam Adams on board!

[bvpcvm]

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y237/bvpcvm/max4.jpg

[Sekkle]

Awesome! :tup:

[deasine]

OOOOO looking good!

[zilfondel]

I put this together awhile ago. I should probably update it, but I think it shows a nice commuter rail line that is possible - most the tracks are already there [yellow], except for adding a small extension to serve Kruse Way and hop over I-5. If you decided not to serve that area, there is an existing rail junction just to the south instead.


http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/ii11/zilfondel/pdx%20city/south-metro.jpg


I'd also like to see some rapid transit lines inside the city of Portland. Powell or 39th avenue subways? Some of these main street corridors need to be ripped open for redevelopment. And some decent transit service.

Disclaimer: I was just in Seattle for a couple of days; I'd like for us to avoid the traffic problems they have. European cities tend to build lots of urban subways to move people around... Vancouver, Seattle, San Francisco all offer excellent case studies of what to do/what not to do.

[NJD]

Metro's 1980 version (pre-Eastside MAX construction):
http://www.metro-region.org/files/planning/1980-longrangeplan.jpg

[MarkDaMan]

^Wow, plans haven't changed too much since then which was...gulp...before I was born.

[RED_PDXer]

^Wow, plans haven't changed too much since then which was...gulp...before I was born.

Sadly, the region is still working on one of the same projects started in the 1980's, namely the North/South corridor (Oregon City to Vancouver). Not much reason to start planning new routes until this vital corridor is approved/completed. That said, much of that corridor is looking promising for completion over the next 5-7 years and Metro has recently started a high-capacity transit working group to develop the next set of HCT plans. Perhaps we've finally reached the time to get the map updated..

[pdxskyline]

Well, been a while since I made a map, but here's my shot at where I think the yellow and green lines ought to go: Oregon City! Plus an Orange(?) line branching off the yellow at Milwaukie to Lake Oswego.

Not one of my best maps, but it shows the vision:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v143/sparkythepenguin/MAXsouth.jpg

Some notable things:

Oregon City is a topological challenge for transportation planners, with three different levels: Downtown, the lowest sits along the Willamette. The mid level rises above downtown and is separated from it by a series of hills and a steep bluff. The third section is uphill from the middle level and is referred to as the "Hilltop". This last section is mostly unconstrained by geography and is expanding and growing rapidly in density and population.

Green line: Would merge with the yellow in Gladstone and split at Abernethy Green. It would continue south on OR 213, the best route to the "Hilltop" area to a terminus at Clackamas Community College.

Yellow Line: At Abernethy Green, the MAX line would parallel, for the most part, the Union Pacific line, serving the existing Oregon City TC, the Oregon City Elevator (providing access to the Promenade atop the OC Bluff and mid-level Oregon City), the Willamette Falls viewpoint (access to the OC Historical Museum), and terminating in Canemah at a park-and-ride serving Canby commuters and Oregon City's South End.

Current TriMet bus service provides routes for OC-Gladstone-Clackamas Town Center and OC-Gladstone-Milwaukie-Portland travel. At Clackamas CC, there is a Park and Ride lot, and South Clackamas Transportation District buses provide a connection to Molalla. Canby Area Transit (CAT) connects to TriMet at the current Oregon City TC, and could connect at a Canemah station instead. Both lines terminating farther south could attract more riders utilizing the MAX to go to PDX, despite one or more transfers (2 from the yellow line to the green and red, and one from green to red), further lessening traffic congestion at PDX.

The Lake Oswego extension is based upon a Metro study I found elsewhere on SSP. It could end up mirroring a Portland Streetcar route along the Willamette Shore Trolley RoW, however, it could provide a cross-river connection that is lacking in the area. Also, considering the opposition many landowners are mounting along the projected Portland-Lake O streetcar alignment, a MAX extension across the Willamette would be a higher capacity link and much better than no rail service to Lake Oswego. I would assume the line would take its own color and continue along the currently proposed Portland-Milwaukie MAX alignment into downtown, maybe farther if a new extension branches off the projected lines one day.

I may have got some station names wrong on the map. Caught them later after the original was saved. oops!

I don't post too much here anymore, but I thought that I would share this with you. If you like, I may go further into detail and show some other areas in Portland that I think should be focused upon.

[Sekkle]

Nice work, and seems well thought-out. Did you do this by any chance?
http://images.nycsubway.org/maps/portlandfuturerail.jpg

Just wondering since the background map looks similar and it looks like it has the same Clackamas CC terminus for the Green Line. The above map is from this page (http://world.nycsubway.org/us/portland/max.html) at nycsubway.org.

[Pavlov's Dog]

You guys do some great work.

I wish I was competent with drawing software but I'm not unfortunately so I'll have to try to describe what I have in mind.

Vancouver-Washington County service (hybrid diesel commuter rail car with pantograph for electric service where available)

From Downtown Vancouver west to the Amtrack shed and then over the railroad bridge accross the Columbia. Two stops in N. Portland, one at Columbia Blvd with connecting bus service to Rivergate Industrial and one at Willamette Blvd. From there the line crosses the Willamette and enters a new tunnel which emerges west of the hills at the large vacant lot Cedar Mills.

Loop line-From there one branch goes East to Sunset TC and then South to Beaverton and onto the yellow south loop to LO and Clackamas Zilfondel has on his map. From this point it can go along the new line up 205 and accross the Columbia again and up to Mill Plain from where it can go back into downtown Vancouver.

Silicon Forest Branch- From Cedar Mill along the Sunset til it meets Cornell and then into the regional center being planned for Amberglenn. For many people this branch could save them a lot of time driving between Clark and Washington counties and make the Columbia Crossing less necessary.


additonal notes based on this idea. A line going from Downtown-Sunset TC-Cedar Mill-Cornell-Amberglenn-Hillsboro cutting travelling time for many.

Vancouver-Downtown Portland express service. After crossing the Willamette non-stop to Union Station and then service along the transit mall. Could be much faster than currently conceived MAX service.

[pdxskyline]

@ForAteOh, yup that was mine. Before I came along, NYCSubway.org had nothing there about Portland! I also ran nwvirtualtransit.com for a while. But I have moved on to other things and I let it go by the wayside. No prob though, as NYC Subway has most of the same info on that site, but in a much more simplified manner.

I am working on several maps for you guys. Back in the day, I used to try to figure out where things ought to go: MAX, Streetcar, Commuter Rail, etc... It's about time that I jump into it again. I hope to show you all my updated maps of the full potential commuter rail, MAX, and Streetcar systems: What I hear are rumors, ones I think the region may need, and lines I incorporate from other plans that I like. Plus, a downtown subway concept, A plan for a well-utilized Union Station transit hub at the convergence of a revitalized Transit Mall, Old Town, and Pearl District, and a new long-distance rail station on the revitalized Eastside and Lloyd District.

I once dreamed of a Union Station brought back to relevance. With High-speed rail requiring a run purely on the eastside, that can't happen. But, a transit hub utilizing Union station as a WES-style, fully regional commuter station connecting to buses, subway MAX, and streetcar lines would bring some wonderful life into this old gem. Even if it means my dream of seeing sleek TGV or Shinkansen trains never calling upon the old depot, Union Station will be one of the hearts of my projected system and a vibrant new lease on life.

[Pavlov's Dog]

I could see a bi-level tunnel under Broadway with a subway on the upper level and HSR on the lower level with a future MAX line SW along Barbur/I5.

MAX stops at Union Station, Burnside, Pioneer Square, PSU, Pill Hill (a la Zoo Station) and then above ground.

[PacificNW]

Bart and Muni share their underground tunnels. Muni (LRT) on the upper level and Bart (HRT) on the lower level. Appeared to work well on my recent visit to the Bay area.

[MarkDaMan]

anybody else think it's time for Fred Hanson to go? Not that he hasn't done a good job with TriMet, but the agency is getting a little stale. I'd like to see some new, energized blood coming up with some innovative projects that can connect the community with the public transit. Now is the best time ever, being people are actually starting to ditch their cars and hoping onto the rails and buses.

[NJD]

^ Nope. Fred Hanson is doing an awesome job. LRT under construction. LRT under SEIS review. LRT on the planning table. Expanding bus service. Contributing to Portland Streetcar. Efficiency upgrades. Etc... I'm for slow growth with our current funding sources, and Hanson has been doing well with what he's got. I would love to see him, or someone else in maybe Metro, Portland or State office push for an expanding funding program to get these transit packages moving faster.

[MarkDaMan]

old buses breaking down, inefficent MAX service downtown, commuter rail to DT Beaverton instead of DT Portland, reduced bus service, lack of express or limited bus service, initial rejection of the streetcar, uptick in crime on transit, as well as lack of an overall exciting or innovative master plan.

Hansen has done a lot right, and I agree there are many great things yet safe steps moving forward. I just wonder, could Portland get more, maybe not even with replacing him, but adding new blood in influencial positions close to him.

[deasine]

I was shocked that there were so few express buses there for Portland. It's the easiest way to connect suburbs to major city centres/regional centres together. I would really want covert lanes of highways to HOV allowing faster traffic flow for buses and carpool users [not the usual 2+, but 3+ instead]. Create a network of express buses and highway express coaches [that are a little more comfortable than regular buses] and boom you'll have a network that can move people faster and more effective. Now that many Portland residents are more open to alternative forms of transportation, this would be a great start.

Tri-Met has been handling light rail very nicely though. =)

Not the best example but Vancouver's Highway Express Coaches
http://lh3.ggpht.com/deasine/SDeoN-0AbmI/AAAAAAAACZM/pmYgaiKHtkQ/P1000932.JPG?imgmax=512
Photo captured by me

http://lh6.ggpht.com/deasine/SDeoQu0AboI/AAAAAAAACZc/1dirvTZIIu0/P1000930.JPG?imgmax=512
Photo captured by me

http://lh5.ggpht.com/deasine/SDeoMe0AblI/AAAAAAAACZE/S81d2jBYVQQ/Interior.jpg?imgmax=640
Credits to Bill Wong [small LED display in the front displays the next upcoming stop, connected to GPS]

[bvpcvm]

old buses breaking down, inefficent MAX service downtown, commuter rail to DT Beaverton instead of DT Portland, reduced bus service, lack of express or limited bus service, initial rejection of the streetcar, uptick in crime on transit, as well as lack of an overall exciting or innovative master plan.

Hansen has done a lot right, and I agree there are many great things yet safe steps moving forward. I just wonder, could Portland get more, maybe not even with replacing him, but adding new blood in influencial positions close to him.

huh? inefficient max service in dt? max was built thru dt long before hansen came along. commuter rail to bv instead of dt? along what particular alignment? that really seems like an unfair criticism. lack of express service - ok, i'll give you that. initial rejection of the streetcar? well, he supports it now. flip-flopping (how i hate that term) isn't necessarily a bad thing. uptick of crime? a crisis manufactured by the tribune. master plan? metro's working on one right now. from what i understand, rail planning starts at metro and once a corridor is chosen and construction is approved, it becomes trimet's responsibility.

[pdxman]

old buses breaking down, inefficent MAX service downtown, commuter rail to DT Beaverton instead of DT Portland, reduced bus service, lack of express or limited bus service, initial rejection of the streetcar, uptick in crime on transit, as well as lack of an overall exciting or innovative master plan.

You took the words right out of my mouth mark! As a daily bus rider on trimet I could go on for a while about the complaints and beefs I have about trimets attention, or lack of, towards bus service in general. I am totally 100% in favor of all things rail but not when it comes at the expense of the bus system.

[pdxman]

And no this isn't erik halstead ;)

[RED_PDXer]

I think you all should take a look at the Transit Investment Plan (www.trimet.org/tip), which is updated annually. It has a relatively short (five-year) planning horizon and a set of four priorities - build the total transit system; expand high-capacity transit; expand frequent service bus lines, and; improve local service. The only thing they haven't been doing much of lately is improving local service, because the suburbs continue to experience low densities, poor urban form and street connectivity, and thus, are too costly to serve compared with other service enhancements closer in. Enhancing trunk line service, such as Line 57 through Washington County, is the best way to add service hours in places like that.

Given the fiscal constraints caused by increasing demand and cost of LIFT service (which is mandated by federal government), rising cost of fuel, and dealing with mechanics' and operators' unions, I think TriMet is doing quite well.

As for light rail, when it is added to a corridor, there is usually bus service enhancements that go with it, along with a steady commitment to maintaining frequent service on the MAX route. For example, a MAX line to Milwaukie would shift bus service enhancements further south, to OC and Clackamas County College, feeding into the Milwaukie line. Later this year and next, TriMet will increase feeder bus service to commuter rail and the I-205 Green Line, respectively. In the meantime, TriMet also continues to add service to increasingly busy routes on the inner eastside, such as Belmont and Division.

All the while, TriMet is maintaining service throughout the region, adding more frequent service lines, adding bus shelters, replacing 50 older buses a year with new low-floor buses, and adding automated stop announcements and displays to each bus line in the next couple years (I've noticed them on Line 75, which I use regularly).

In terms of efficiencies, TriMet bus planners are constantly pushing through efficiency improvements by consolidating stops that are too close, resulting in improved travel times and reliability. As for MAX service downtown, that's been around for 20 years and makes absolutely no sense to keep as is. It's a difficult discussion to have since some property owners will get less direct access to regional light rail than they have been getting all these years. However, as experienced by my friends, there is increasing reluctance for some people who work on the westside to live in the mundane westside suburbs, and thus must commute through downtown, not to downtown.

As for express bus service, MAX is the express service in most corridors. There's plenty of express bus service elsewhere, such as service in inner eastside (express lines to Lloyd-74 and Marquam Hill-64, 65, 66), southwest cities (92 on Beaverton Hillsdale, 94 on Barbur, 96 on I-5), and Clackamas County (McLoughlin-99). This is a fairly compact region. It doesn't make much sense to add express service in many more places, does it?

Lastly, I noticed a complaint that TriMet was reluctant to go with streetcar initially. I think the reluctance still exists. The high capital costs of fixed rail makes sense for high-capacity, faster service corridors. From the last time I rode the streetcar, it didn't seem high capacity OR high speed. In fact, it's the slowest damn people mover one could ask for. I applaud TriMet's reluctance to spend regional dollars on a development tool that will benefit a select few. Rather, that money should come from local property taxes for property owners who can claim the urban amenity for their gentrification/higher density development efforts.

The only major complaint I have with TriMet is their inattention to modern payment methods/systems. It's about time we moved to a cashless system where every rider can pay with cash cards that are simply swiped as people enter bus or max. It can save time and make riding less onerous to new riders. Last I heard, this is still 6-8 years away here.

[Bill_G]

Regarding using the existing rail between Tigard / Tualatin through Lk Oswego for future commuter projects - I've talked with P&W officials, and they were not shy about not allowing that to happen. The conversation was essentially "Not just no, but he!! no." However, I've seen the same possibility for a long time, and think that joining WES to the Willamette Trolley line in LO so that people have a direct shot at downtown without a transfer at the Beaverton TC makes too much sense.

[NJD]

I made a quick map of a line I would like to see developed eventually; it would be an offshoot of the potential Powell/Foster light rail line following the Springwater ROW, then it would split from the Damascus bound line further up the Springwater trail to the old rail spur ROW that is now part of the Ruby Junction railyard and a multi-use path from Burnside to I-84, then pass down to parallel the freight rail tracks along I-84 to Troutdale (potential future commuter rail connection). As I see it, if and when a Powell/ Foster line is built they will probably want to use the old rail spur ROW to connect it to Ruby Junction for maintenance and staging. If they are gong to electrify this stretch anyway they might as well use it, and then extend the new LRT branch to Fairview and Troutdale using existing rail ROW only. This service would add a new north-south travel option criss-crossing the existing light rail lines.

http://images.tribe.net/tribe/upload/photo/20c/15e/20c15ed2-a482-4f17-a05c-bc054e992869

I'll probably never see this route come to fruition, but the idea was fun to play with...

[bvpcvm]

i've thought about that very same idea

[dabom]

i not shur if i can bump old threads but heres mine, the green line extension

[2oh1]

What the...?

[dabom]

i thought it was a good extention because for the bus its 8 miles to the max from the oc tc, and this would make it 5.5 miles

[2oh1]

i thought it was a good extention because for the bus its 8 miles to the max from the oc tc, and this would make it 5.5 miles

The map gives no clues where it is. It has no labels or info. It's just some random spot with two blue lines running off the page that don't even connect. One of the lines runs right over a baseball diamond in a park?

I didn't understand it at all. I still don't. This would make what 5.5 miles?

[Derek]

It's the 205/224/213 merge on the border between Oatfield and Clackamas, but I don't understand what you're trying to show either. If you were to follow the blue line on the left of the image, it would cut right through dozens of homes in a neighborhood.

[dabom]

the line stops there at johnson rd and the school could take some houses out to get a bigger field.

[Derek]

Not to be rude, but it would far easier to understand what you're trying to say if you used punctuation and complete sentences.

[dabom]

This would make what 5.5 miles?

the bus would take 5.5 miles if it went on the west side of the highway the whole way (oregon city tc to max)

[Demolished Portland]

This is not a realistic proposal, more of a fantasy subway/metro system if Portland had developed along the lines of NY or Chicago in the 1920s and had a couple million more people.
There would be freight subway cars to replace a lot of the need for delivery trucks and further reduce the amount of vehicles on the streets. Also included suggested freeway burial/removal proposals.

Link: http://goo.gl/maps/mKWDt

http://i1287.photobucket.com/albums/a638/DemolishedPortland/Transit/PortlandSubwayCentralCity_zpsec0d85fb.png

[dabom]

https://mapsengine.google.com/map/edit?mid=zJWRrGdEVegk.k9WqO0QT-wC0

some the east side lines :tup:

[2oh1]

This is not a realistic proposal, more of a fantasy subway/metro system if Portland had developed along the lines of NY or Chicago in the 1920s and had a couple million more people.

It is fun to dream that stuff up. And it's sad to think about all of the rail lines Portland had many decades ago. I remember seeing an old photo of a trolley coming up SW Broadway, I believe. Could you even imagine how great of a transit system we'd have if there had been a way to keep the old system up to date rather than ripping it out and paving over it? Dreams, dreams, dreams, they can be both fun and frustrating at the same time.

My dream system would have trolley's doing a loop along Hawthorne and Belmont, along with Burnside and NW 21st/23rd. I'd love to see some of our local shopping districts be less car friendly and more pedestrian friendly.

https://mapsengine.google.com/map/edit?mid=zJWRrGdEVegk.k9WqO0QT-wC0

some the east side lines :tup:

...?
Your link doesn't work. It returns a 403 error message.

Not to be rude, but it would far easier to understand what you're trying to say if you used punctuation and complete sentences.

Also, this. Are you referring to the east side lines the previous poster envisioned, or are you talking about something else? There's no way to know what "some the east side lines" means.

[dabom]

https://mapsengine.google.com/map/edit?mid=zJWRrGdEVegk.k9WqO0QT-wC0

now it should work, i love this map maker thanks for showing me this

I'm going to make bus routes with this too!

[Derek]

This is not a realistic proposal, more of a fantasy subway/metro system if Portland had developed along the lines of NY or Chicago in the 1920s and had a couple million more people.
There would be freight subway cars to replace a lot of the need for delivery trucks and further reduce the amount of vehicles on the streets. Also included suggested freeway burial/removal proposals.

Link: http://goo.gl/maps/mKWDt

http://i1287.photobucket.com/albums/a638/DemolishedPortland/Transit/PortlandSubwayCentralCity_zpsec0d85fb.png



My only complaint is that you should have a direct line to the airport from downtown. ;)

[dabom]

There's no way to know what "some the east side lines" means.

some the east side rail lines bro :shrug::haha:

[65MAX]

Since there is no verb, no punctuation and no evidence of any grasp of basic grammar, my guess is that English is not your first language, or even your second language, or you're 12 years old, or all of the above.

And yes, I realize that is one hell of a run-on sentence.

[2oh1]

the school could take some houses out to get a bigger field.

Would anyone contact the people living in the houses, or would it (the school) just level them at night while the families slept inside?

:whatthefuck:

[dabom]

im just bad at typing, ive seen people make mistakes on here.

[dabom]

Would anyone contact the people living in the houses, or would it (the school) just level them at night while the families slept inside?

:whatthefuck:

there was a mansion in oregon city but they demolished and put a office building there. thats way worse then a few small houses.

[Derek]

Your logic is heavily flawed...

[dabom]

if a few houses were gom you could maybe put a pedestrian bridge over 205 and have light rail.

[2oh1]

im just bad at typing, ive seen people make mistakes on here.

It's not that you make mistakes. The problem is that you don't communicate clearly. Here's an example:

there was a mansion in oregon city but they demolished and put a office building there. thats way worse then a few small houses.

They...? Are you talking about the school (I have no idea which school you're referring to. You didn't name it), or are you talking about Trimet? Was the mansion vacant, perhaps abandoned, or was it someone's home? Did they (whoever 'they' are) buy it? Or was it condemned?

Also, the idea that it's "way worse" to demolish one wealthy family's mansion than it is to demolish several middle class families houses is offensive, quite frankly, unless you're implying that the mansion had historic significance. If the mansion was historic, you didn't mention it... which goes back to the whole not-communicating-clearly thing.

Here's an example of how to communicate clearly:

There was a mansion in Oregon City near the corner of _STREET_ and _STREET_, but it was demolished in _YEAR_ so that the _NAME_ office building could be built. Tearing down that mansion was terrible because _REASONS_.

By including the relevant details, you help others to follow along with the conversation.

[dabom]

it was by the municipal elevator on upper level and it was historic. i dont know when it was demolished but it was a long time ago.

the guest house is still there though and its really big

[Derek]

http://www.reactionface.info/sites/default/files/imagecache/Node_Page/images/1314029819767.png

[dabom]

http://i462.photobucket.com/albums/qq347/booglue33/coohfug_zps3400ec23.png

this one is a lot better
a little further south and thats a bad intersection so i wouldnt want it to stop there.

[dabom]

http://i462.photobucket.com/albums/qq347/booglue33/busrout_zpse887ce32.png

the bus route

[dabom]

i wish both the orange line and green line were a mile away from the clackamas river. i wont it to happen so bad but it wont happen . i like the canby and oc transit center, its mile from the river and you can jump in and cool off on a hot day.