[SpongeG]

have you heard about this? :shrug: :hell:

No-fun closing times are turning the clock back towards Hicksville
The Province
Monday, March 24, 2008
Page: A16
Section: Editorial
Byline: Jack Keating
Source: The Province

Vancouver's no-fun bureaucrats are at it again.

Vancouver has quietly adopted a policy where senior bureaucrats -- and it's these folks who really run the city -- have decided most restaurants, bar and grills, cafe/lounges and pubs that serve beer, wine and spirits will have to close at midnight, even on Friday and Saturday nights.

That's right. The bureaucrats want everyone to stop having fun and go home at midnight. What a sham!

The city wants to turn Commercial Drive, Main and Cambie streets, Broadway, West 4th and other areas into ghost towns at midnight.

Imagine telling someone from Montreal, Toronto, New York, Europe, Australia -- or even Calgary or Seattle, for that matter -- that you can't get a glass of wine or beer, or listen to live music after midnight in most areas of the city.

The reaction would be disbelief. And this in a city that is practically begging tourists to visit.

The law in B.C. says you can legally drink until 4 a.m. -- something Vancouver's chief license inspector, Paul Teichroeb, readily admits.

But Vancouver's bureaucrats and politicians have arbitrarily deemed midnight as closing time in all but the entertainment district downtown.

This march toward Hicksville actually began 30 months ago under the guise of pretending to liberalize the city's archaic drinking bylaws.

With the most restrictive drinking laws of any major city in the western world, Vancouver was dragged kicking and screaming into the 20th century in 2003 when it was revealed city officials were strictly enforcing a bylaw that banned dancing in restaurants and more than two musicians on stage.

Several popular restaurants on Main and Commercial were actually threatened with $2,000 fines and possible closure for violating the bylaw.

There was outrage.

Mayor Larry Campbell termed the bylaw "absolutely ludicrous" and "nutso," while Coun. Jim Green said the city had become "a laughingstock" over the issue.

But in taking one step forward -- allowing live music and dancing -- the city has taken two steps back by forcing establishments to close one or two hours earlier than before.

The same bureaucrats who were given the task of liberalizing antiquated bylaws have actually turned the clock back.

Owners are opposed to the ridiculously early closing times. But they have to agree to them, as it's the only way they'll get a business licence to open and operate.

Even nightclubs and cabarets, which for decades were allowed to stay open until 2 a.m., are being ordered to close at midnight. Some after much haggling with the city's bureaucracy, are granted a one-hour extension until 1 a.m.

Unbelievable.

These latest edicts are reminiscent of the hare-brained, anti-fun decisions of the '80s and '90s that got Vancouver branded a "no fun" city in the first place.

This backward/backwater policy must change.

jkeating@png.canwest.com

[Nutterbug]

But Vancouver's bureaucrats and politicians have arbitrarily deemed midnight as closing time in all but the entertainment district downtown.
What ties do they have to those businesses?

[quobobo]

This city could be so great if it wasn't for all the dumb bylaws...

[zivan56]

Vancouver was a no fun zone a long time ago. I have had more fun in a village in Croatia than I've ever had here...its quite sad that senile people pass dictatorial neocon bylaws at their own discretion.

[MistyMountainHop]

What the fuck?

[Hed Kandi]

No drinking establishment should be forced to close before 8am.

This city should shoot for world class club status not unlike Ibiza, Cancun, Ko Pha Ngan, South Beach, etc

We need a mayor who can promote this city as a city of night life and turn every retirement home community (Coal Harbor, Yaletown) into a 24hr party zone!!!

[MistyMountainHop]

I like your thinking!

And lower the drinking age and legalize marijuana while they're at it ...

[raggedy13]

This is ridiculous. Is this actually set to go into effect at some point or just being discussed? If I was one of the mayoral candidates in the upcoming election I would make quashing this policy part of my platform. You'd immediate win over the younger voters. The stupid thing about keeping the entertainment district open longer than everywhere else is that so many of the Granville crowd are suburbanites. The city is shafting its own residents who generally try to avoid the genericness of Granville, while the good times can keep rolling for the unappreciative suburban skanks and chaches... and gang members.

[djh]

^Totally agree.

[raggedy13]

In addition, if this went into effect, Granville Street would likely be flooded with even more people once everywhere else closes at midnight. They already have enough problems with overcrowding leading to fights etc. Is potentially doubling the number of people on the street going to be helpful? They would have to close the street to traffic every weekend night and there would need to be more establishments opened otherwise Granville Street is going to be one big no-fun line up of people all night. It pretty much already is.

[sono65]

How do we change this? Are these bureaucrats people we can vote in and out? Can we get a petition going? Surely the majority of young people in this city won't stand for this. What's next, curfews?

[clooless]

I like your thinking!

And lower the drinking age and legalize marijuana while they're at it ...

Word.

Forcing bars and restaurants to close at midnight? This is the first I've heard of this. World class city? What a joke. This makes even less sense given that all of the surrounding municipalities permit bars and restaurants to remain open until 2 AM.

[jlousa]

You do realize the polictians are doing this because it is want the general public wants. I don't agree with all of it either but I can understand why they're doing it. The fact is these young people you speak of are a vast minority most of which do not even vote.
I think midnight is too early but I can understand wanting to reduce the hours in places like commercial drive, it's mostly residential and not fair to the residents living there to be woken up at 4am by drunks. This isn't Nimbism it's common courtesy. Also the idea of concentrating the drinking in an entertainment area isn't such a bad one, while it obvious attracts trouble, it is still easier to manage one large area then several smaller ones scattered across the area.
Besides this isn't only a City of Vancouver issue I don't beleive any of the neighbouring cities use the extended hours do they?

[entheosfog]

You do realize the polictians are doing this because it is want the general public wants. I don't agree with all of it either but I can understand why they're doing it. The fact is these young people you speak of are a vast minority most of which do not even vote.
I think midnight is too early but I can understand wanting to reduce the hours in places like commercial drive, it's mostly residential and not fair to the residents living there to be woken up at 4am by drunks. This isn't Nimbism it's common courtesy. Also the idea of concentrating the drinking in an entertainment area isn't such a bad one, while it obvious attracts trouble, it is still easier to manage one large area then several smaller ones scattered across the area.
Besides this isn't only a City of Vancouver issue I don't beleive any of the neighbouring cities use the extended hours do they?

When I lived near Commercial I thought everything closed up a little early as it was. I didn't always want to have to go downtown just so I could stay out a little later. But midnight? That's crazy.

[djh]

All this will do is encourage people to open more illegal after-hours. Does the city really think by legislating fun that people will just stop having fun when it's out of hours?
Oh, and the other side-effect will be that loads of bars and clubs will go bankrupt because they can't make enough money from opening time until midnight to cover their costs. Or they will charge entry fees to bars and hike the price of meals and drinks.

Can you imagine what will happen in 2010? It will just excacerbate the stereotype that is out there of Canadians being boring and not knowing how to have fun (I know all of my friends laughed at me when I told them I was moving from London to Canada...they all did the "banjo dance" and called Vancouver the Wild Wild West)

[Vancity4life]

If this shitty bylaw manages to stick around untill 2010 (which I pray it doesn't) They'd better at least temporarily repeal it for the games. Some events can go quite late and people coming back to the city from whistler may just want to party it up a little on the way home.

[Stingray2004]

Vancouver has quietly adopted a policy where senior bureaucrats -- and it's these folks who really run the city -- have decided most restaurants, bar and grills, cafe/lounges and pubs that serve beer, wine and spirits will have to close at midnight, even on Friday and Saturday nights.

You mean I won't be able to sit in a downtown hotel lounge 'till 2:00 am?

And Vancouver is expanding its trade and convention centre with many of these delegates, notwithstanding tourists, also attending hotel lounges/bars/clubs 'till 2:00 am on Fridays/Saturdays!

Absolutely bizarre public policy!

[Rusty Gull]

Well, with Vancouver reverting to its no-fun status, perhaps some other city or jurisdiction will rise to the occasion to become vice central in the Lower Mainland? Any nearby islands looking for a bit of late-night debauchery and gambling?

[Nutterbug]

If this shitty bylaw manages to stick around untill 2010 (which I pray it doesn't) They'd better at least temporarily repeal it for the games. Some events can go quite late and people coming back to the city from whistler may just want to party it up a little on the way home.

That's probably exactly what they'll do. Like everything else, hide and fake it when the big spotlight is on.

[EastVanMark]

What ties do they have to those businesses?

The ties are simply this: they want to make themselves look good. In the 90's city planners came up with an idea of creating an "entertainment district" to help revitalize Granville street AND to push bars and restaurants out of newly planned residential neighborhoods in and around the downtown core. Those who saw the writing on the wall AND had the funds, moved their businesses onto the Granville strip. Those others, who are less fortunate are met with constant police and city harassment to "encourage" them to leave.

[EastVanMark]

This city could be so great if it wasn't for all the dumb bylaws...

***NO F*CKING KIDDING****:yes: :tup:

[Nutterbug]

You do realize the polictians are doing this because it is want the general public wants. I don't agree with all of it either but I can understand why they're doing it. The fact is these young people you speak of are a vast minority most of which do not even vote.

What we're seeing is the unwanted side effect of modern technology and health care prolonging people's life spans. It makes you yearn for the days when people died at around 50, before they got too old to handle a little noise and activity.

Didn't these old baby boomers party it up late into the night at Woodstock and after every Beatles and Elvis concert back in the day?

[vanlaw]

Any nearby islands looking for a bit of late-night debauchery and gambling?

I think Richmond (Lulu Island) has this pretty well covered off already, with its two casinos (Starlight technically on the Island, although in Queensborough) and it's abundance of brothels.

[EastVanMark]

All this will do is encourage people to open more illegal after-hours. Does the city really think by legislating fun that people will just stop having fun when it's out of hours?
Oh, and the other side-effect will be that loads of bars and clubs will go bankrupt because they can't make enough money from opening time until midnight to cover their costs. Or they will charge entry fees to bars and hike the price of meals and drinks.

You are right on all accounts. All this will do, is take the partying underground. In the 80's and 90's illegal after-hours were a dime a dozen. I remember it being a ritual of club patrons asking staff where the that weeks spot was. Then you had the police allocating resources to shutting them down (keeping them from doing...other..MORE IMPORTANT things) Both alcohol and drugs flowed freely and unregulated at these places. Organized crime had a field day with these and made a ton of money.

Then something magical happened. The city moved into the 21st century and extended bar hours. Almost immediately, these type of places disappeared because they were simply not needed.

You are also correct that this will put many bars/lounges out of business and will force those who remain to jack up all prices (because their landlords also read the paper and once they realize the leverage they have, they jack up the rents); and guess who those extra cost will get passed on to...

[jhausner]

How do we change this? Are these bureaucrats people we can vote in and out? Can we get a petition going? Surely the majority of young people in this city won't stand for this. What's next, curfews?

Yes this November. Vote them out. Include the lovely mayor of Vancouver whose ego is the size of China's pollution problem.

It's called a quick fix unfortunately and they are knee-jerk reacting to crime issues that are a direct result of lack of police resources and a demoralized police force held at gun point due to the justice system.

[jhausner]

You are right on all accounts. All this will do, is take the partying underground. In the 80's and 90's illegal after-hours were a dime a dozen. I remember it being a ritual of club patrons asking staff where the that weeks spot was. Then you had the police allocating resources to shutting them down (keeping them from doing...other..MORE IMPORTANT things) Both alcohol and drugs flowed freely and unregulated at these places. Organized crime had a field day with these and made a ton of money.

Then something magical happened. The city moved into the 21st century and extended bar hours. Almost immediately, these type of places disappeared because they were simply not needed.

You are also correct that this will put many bars/lounges out of business and will force those who remain to jack up all prices (because their landlords also read the paper and once they realize the leverage they have, they jack up the rents); and guess who those extra cost will get passed on to...

I would imagine you're going to see a shift over the next 10-20 years where bars and entertainment districts move away from Vancouver downtown due to the laws and regulations being put into use. If the surrounding cities were smart, they'd get their policing and enforcement up to a good standard, then invite the entertainment hospitality business group to their city and take a large chunk of money away from Vancouver council.

I could see a push for something of the sort to be part of the master plan of a new downtown in Surrey central, and most of us living in the area are already used to high crime so we may aswell get some drunken fun out of it for once. :jester: Oh wait...

[vanman]

^I've always thought that 3 block or so strip in Metrotown along Kingsway would make a perfect Entertainment District for Burnaby. Not many neighbors around aside from a few condo towers, close to transportation, and it would be more central to the region than downtown Van.

[zivan56]

In Europe (parts that I've been to) during the summer, most younger people go out from around 12am-1am to 3am. Most of the clubs are located near the city centres and are open to at least 2am or so (depending where). I've yet to see a fight and an unfriendly environment like Granville Street over there, not that there aren't fights and whatnot...but Vancouver is really a joke compared to other places. Personally, I haven't been to a bar on Granville for years, as all the hicks go there....Yaletown is decent, but severely overpriced and filled with yuppie posers. Overall, it's pretty sad compared to other cities in the world.

[agrant]

Not much else to add. There is clearly a demand for late night fun. I fail to see why there isn't at least another zone for this. Every neighborhood should have something. People should prepare to hear more yahoos randomly yelling and screaming at a late night neighborhood party, since that's the only place to go. Just seems like an ill informed decision.

[Nutterbug]

It seems to me that the effort should go towards coming down harder on the individual troublemakers responsible for the problems, such as increasing fines and jail time for those who rowdy it up and maybe even ban them from the premises, than shutting them down early, punishing all the legitimate and civilized patrons, and killing all the businesses that cater to them.

[mr.x]

wtf? midnight???? whose idea was this?


this city is becoming a complete joke.

[EastVanMark]

It seems to me that the effort should go towards coming down harder on the individual troublemakers responsible for the problems, such as increasing fines and jail time for those who rowdy it up and maybe even ban them from the premises, than shutting them down early, punishing all the legitimate and civilized patrons, and killing all the businesses that cater to them.

Absolutely.:tup: In other cities, you act like a jackass, you pay the price. In Vancouver, they arrest you drive you to Stanley Park, then drop you off. Jump on the field at a Lions game and again, at worst you get kicked out of the building. In Philadelphia, they had both a jail and a community court in the bowels of their former stadium. Jump on the field there and you are sitting in a jail cell for hours after the game ends and you get out with a court date.

[giallo]

After living in Asia (Taiwan and Shanghai) for the past five years, I can assure you how lame Vancouver looks to an outsider that likes to have fun at night. Being away from Vancouver for so long has afforded me a different perspective on it's nightlife, and it isn't good. In Shanghai I can buy an assortment of wine, spirits and beer 24 hours a day from the corner store. Clubs close when they feel they should as there are no laws saying otherwise. Listening to live jazz at 3am with a bunch of barflys in Shanghai is a unique experience, let me tell ya.
If Shanghai is an unfair comparison due to it's size then I can use Tainan, Taiwan (pop. 1,100,000) as another example. Same thing there. Clubs close when they want. Spirits and beer available at the 7-11 24 hours a day.

My main problem with Vancouver is how it wants to be this premier international tourist city, yet keeps it's restaurants, pubs and bars at arm's length. Travelers want to be able to explore the city in the day and at night. Why limit their experience? It makes no sense.

Whatever, it's Friday, so I'll be getting together with friends, buying our drinks from the neighborhood corner store and then going to see DJ Kentaro play at The Shelter. After he finishes at 4am, we'll go to a favourite 24 hour noodle joint and enjoy a caesers until the sun kisses the sky. I'll enjoy it while it lasts because I'll never have this sort of lifestyle in Vancouver when I move back.

[quobobo]

^^^

So true. A year in Hiroshima made me depressed as hell to come back to Vancouver. Far more relaxed laws regarding entertainment and liquor, a much larger population living downtown (an affordable, dense, very large downtown where people other than "urban professionals" live... thanks, zoning bylaws that allow density and height nearly everywhere in the city!) - both of these make nightlife a hell of a lot more fun.

I don't know why we feel the need for such restrictive planning here. Would things really go to hell if Vancouver let bars decide their own hours?

[baggab]

I find The Province, a joke. This article to me is just sensationalized hear-say.

Name some names or provide some proof. The author doesn't back anything up with any substance and presents the discussion as if it'll pass.

I am glad I don't subscribe to this useless dying medium. I think that's the one thing I like about getting news online more, it's so much easier to sift through.

[Smooth]

Concentrating all of Vancouver's late night clubs in one area is about as effective as concentrating all of Vancouver's social services in one area. We all know how that turned out.

[mr.x]

^^^

So true. A year in Hiroshima made me depressed as hell to come back to Vancouver. Far more relaxed laws regarding entertainment and liquor, a much larger population living downtown (an affordable, dense, very large downtown where people other than "urban professionals" live... thanks, zoning bylaws that allow density and height nearly everywhere in the city!) - both of these make nightlife a hell of a lot more fun.

I don't know why we feel the need for such restrictive planning here. Would things really go to hell if Vancouver let bars decide their own hours?

Same goes whenever I come back to Vancouver from Hong Kong.

[Jacques]

I don't know if that law has yet to have taken effect, due that I live right next door to the MODERN Club in Gastown and the noise has not ceased at one Am nor at two Am but at four Am on week-ends and tonite the bitches are out there screaming their stupid howling cat noises again, when I first moved here the club was closed and we were assured it would only open as a high end bar, but it is not, big SUV LIMO and BUS LIMO with BOOM BOX music rattling our walls.
SO for once I couldn't care less if they shut this place down. We paid a lot of money to live in a quiet place, but like everything else this area is ever changing and the hooligans are underneath my loft windows 4 times a weeks.
Let them party if they so wish but let it be in the Entertainment District as per requested.
that's my take, when you have to get up at 8.00 Am its no fun to have those morons making such immature noise til 4AM 4 days out of seven.

[Jacques]

just so everyone knows, In Montreal BARS are open quite late and I used to lived right downtown and never heard raucous noise and ill behaved people as I do HERE, it is such a shame that the laws are not so flexible, that being said if the people that frequent these establishments weren't such immature and filled with such inflated ego's such as to ill behaved as they do, then shut everything down and back to Sunday closure I say, Until BC Boys and Girls know the value of self-respect and respect for others how can anyone else be accommodating.
today drugs booze and rock n roll free for all, not good

[cornholio]

All this will do is encourage people to open more illegal after-hours. Does the city really think by legislating fun that people will just stop having fun when it's out of hours?
Oh, and the other side-effect will be that loads of bars and clubs will go bankrupt because they can't make enough money from opening time until midnight to cover their costs. Or they will charge entry fees to bars and hike the price of meals and drinks.

Can you imagine what will happen in 2010? It will just excacerbate the stereotype that is out there of Canadians being boring and not knowing how to have fun (I know all of my friends laughed at me when I told them I was moving from London to Canada...they all did the "banjo dance" and called Vancouver the Wild Wild West)

Dont worry all the pubs and clubs will be opened nice and late for the Olympics. Infact I would be suprised if there werent ones open 24/7. But right after that bang back to the old ways. In any case I could care less this just another reason to justify me geting the hell out of this city, personally I cant take it anymore. I feel really really sorry for people who havent lived elsewhere because this is a joke. There should be a number of pubs open 24/7 not closing even earier then the ridiculous times of 2am. Your bound to get a disaster when you kick everyone out of a packed pub club at 2am or even more packed at 12am. On top of that you leave a couple places open till 3am so you can give all these people who are now outside all at the same time the chance to head to Granville where you repeat theprocess of kicking everyone out early. I dont this is really a joke, on top of this their taking out smoking rooms out of pubs and expect everyone to go outside...what a joke, find me one person who has a problem with a smoking room in a pub...or better yet find me a pub with a decent sized smoking room where the number of people in it outnumber the number of people out of it...yes pretty much every pub. But I could care less because im out a here, and I dont want to be called a sell out because unfortunately I know how much better it is elsewhere, I love this city and keep gving it a chance but I feel like im living in a stray jacket and I cant take it anymore.

[cornholio]

You are right on all accounts. All this will do, is take the partying underground. In the 80's and 90's illegal after-hours were a dime a dozen. I remember it being a ritual of club patrons asking staff where the that weeks spot was. Then you had the police allocating resources to shutting them down (keeping them from doing...other..MORE IMPORTANT things) Both alcohol and drugs flowed freely and unregulated at these places. Organized crime had a field day with these and made a ton of money.

Then something magical happened. The city moved into the 21st century and extended bar hours. Almost immediately, these type of places disappeared because they were simply not needed.

You are also correct that this will put many bars/lounges out of business and will force those who remain to jack up all prices (because their landlords also read the paper and once they realize the leverage they have, they jack up the rents); and guess who those extra cost will get passed on to...

I actually have two across from my back alley. One is a Vietnamese restaurant and the other one is a Pool Hall. There is no more than one day a week that a people dont come stumbling out at 4-6am. The restaurnat is a younger crowd and gets pretty lively, the Pool hall is a older crowd all they pretty much do is gamble, drink and smoke. I dont go in these places personally because their both more or less asian crowds but there are many other places that I know of a bit more east of Vancouver. There are also two other restaurants within a 5min walk that serve after hour and alow smoking and what not. Obviously all these places are closed from the Kingsway front and you have to go in from the alley. Anyways who still thinks the bs that they live in a free country?

[cornholio]

In Europe (parts that I've been to) during the summer, most younger people go out from around 12am-1am to 3am. Most of the clubs are located near the city centres and are open to at least 2am or so (depending where). I've yet to see a fight and an unfriendly environment like Granville Street over there, not that there aren't fights and whatnot...but Vancouver is really a joke compared to other places. Personally, I haven't been to a bar on Granville for years, as all the hicks go there....Yaletown is decent, but severely overpriced and filled with yuppie posers. Overall, it's pretty sad compared to other cities in the world.

Its because A) there is a large selection of places to go so you dont mix different crowds together.
B) the places are open much longer so you dont have crowds of people being all kicked out at the same time who have been drinking and arent ready to end their evening but sudenly find themselves on the street with nothing to do.
a combination of A and B is what causes just about ALL the problems that Vancouver complains about, and now their trying to make it worse.

[cornholio]

After living in Asia (Taiwan and Shanghai) for the past five years, I can assure you how lame Vancouver looks to an outsider that likes to have fun at night. Being away from Vancouver for so long has afforded me a different perspective on it's nightlife, and it isn't good. In Shanghai I can buy an assortment of wine, spirits and beer 24 hours a day from the corner store. Clubs close when they feel they should as there are no laws saying otherwise. Listening to live jazz at 3am with a bunch of barflys in Shanghai is a unique experience, let me tell ya.
If Shanghai is an unfair comparison due to it's size then I can use Tainan, Taiwan (pop. 1,100,000) as another example. Same thing there. Clubs close when they want. Spirits and beer available at the 7-11 24 hours a day.

My main problem with Vancouver is how it wants to be this premier international tourist city, yet keeps it's restaurants, pubs and bars at arm's length. Travelers want to be able to explore the city in the day and at night. Why limit their experience? It makes no sense.

Whatever, it's Friday, so I'll be getting together with friends, buying our drinks from the neighborhood corner store and then going to see DJ Kentaro play at The Shelter. After he finishes at 4am, we'll go to a favourite 24 hour noodle joint and enjoy a caesers until the sun kisses the sky. I'll enjoy it while it lasts because I'll never have this sort of lifestyle in Vancouver when I move back.

I know exactly what you mean, but if I can give you a word of advice then dont move back to Vancouver because your just gonna end up like me, all disappointed and eventually your going to give up. Your just going to end up wasting more years of your life on this city which has so much potential yet it never comes close to reaching it, its so depressing living here.
All of Europe is pretty much the same way, places to go to are plentiful and open late. Infact one place in particular where I grew up(and lived for again not to long ago) you always have a 24/7 pub within a walkable distance(no more than 30min) in any town or city with at least 10,000 people and the people from these places disperse through out the evening never causing problems because guess what their evenings done when they leave and they just want to go home, and no you dont have people with alcohol poisoning drinking to much etc. because people have limits, and no you dont have problems outside because people leave at their own time and dont get all kicked out at the same time.
Ok i should end now because im just getting my self pissed off.

[giallo]

^ There's a reason why I've been in Asia for so long. I want to go back eventually, I just don't know when. Vancouver has become a great place for me when I'm 40+ and in a stable job with a family. Shanghai, on the otherhand, offers so much in terms of job opportunities and excitement in general. What I've managed to accomplish here in two short years would have been impossible back in Vancouver. I also feel like I'm treated like a child in Vancouver/BC. Whether it's an asshole bouncer or a condesending cop, I'm just not feeling the love.

[Rusty Gull]

^Join the club. There's a mentality in this city, and by extension this province, that just stifles the human spirit. Whether it's midnight closing times for bars, or this region's lack of imagination when it comes to everything from architecture to transportation, you have to wonder how and why we all choose to put up with it.

I have no doubt that Vancouver is well on its way to becoming the retirement mecca of the world. With Kelowna, Victoria and White Rock already there, it was just a matter of time before the retiree spillover effect into Vancouver happened. Just look at Coal Harbour, Point Grey, West Van, even Kits: this is the land of RRSPs, baby boomers, and empty bedrooms.

But it goes beyond Vancouver, frankly. The cities of Asia, including the ones mentioned here (Hiroshima, Hong Kong) are young, dynamic, dense, vibrant and business-friendly. Compared to North America's cities, they are the future.

[flight_from_kamakura]

'No-fun city' seeks change of image
City successful in attracting events that engage the city's residents and provide attractions for tourists
Glenn Bohn, Vancouver Sun
Published: Friday, March 28, 2008

VANCOUVER - An international triathlon, a South Asian dance and music festival and car-free days in five Vancouver neighbourhoods are three of the hundreds of special events proposed in the city this year. Muriel Honey, co-author of a city of Vancouver staff report going to council Thursday, says most of the 167 applications on file come from organizers of the largest events, events that seem to be getting larger and larger. She expects about 500 events this year, roughly the same number as last year, but street festivals seem to be getting larger.

"We have bigger and more complex events coming to Vancouver all the time," she said Thursday during an interview.

Media pundits and entertainment entrepreneurs branded Vancouver a "no-fun city" when police warned rowdies in 2000 not to get caught with liquor in downtown Vancouver on New Year's Eve. Nightclub owner Vance Campbell later cooked up a "Funcouver" campaign.

In 2001, the Vancouver Grizzlies basketball team moved to Memphis. The Molson Indy, an annual car race, left in 2004.

Honey, who in the past did media relations work for the mayor's office, doesn't like to be reminded about that "no-fun Vancouver" buzz.

According to the report she co-wrote with Dave Rieberger, "the city has been very successful in attracting events that engage the city's residents, provide attractions for tourists, and contribute to the city's image as a fun and vibrant city."

The report states that the public has been "very tolerant" of street-oriented events, but recommends that staff investigate the merits of a policy that would restrict the frequency of events in any one area.

It notes the Vancouver park board already has that kind of policy: "For example, road closures to facilitate running events in Stanley Park are limited to one per month and no road closures are permitted in July and August."

gbohn@png.canwest.com

haha, does it seem everyone else (like it does to me) that these people are out to lunch? a south asia dance festival?? an international triathalon??

vancouver barely even has neighborhood pubs! and they're telling us we're going blast of to funcouver land with festivals! my oh my...

and riddle me this: if the public has been "very tolerant", why would staff recommend that events be limited? people want lots of things going on in their neighborhood, it makes the hood feel vital.

[jhausner]

I don't know if that law has yet to have taken effect, due that I live right next door to the MODERN Club in Gastown and the noise has not ceased at one Am nor at two Am but at four Am on week-ends and tonite the bitches are out there screaming their stupid howling cat noises again, when I first moved here the club was closed and we were assured it would only open as a high end bar, but it is not, big SUV LIMO and BUS LIMO with BOOM BOX music rattling our walls.
SO for once I couldn't care less if they shut this place down. We paid a lot of money to live in a quiet place, but like everything else this area is ever changing and the hooligans are underneath my loft windows 4 times a weeks.
Let them party if they so wish but let it be in the Entertainment District as per requested.
that's my take, when you have to get up at 8.00 Am its no fun to have those morons making such immature noise til 4AM 4 days out of seven.

No offense but I had to laugh when you said "paid a lot of money to live in a quiet place." and "Gastown" in the same post.

I'm sorry but a quiet place = living up in Vanderhoof, or 10 minutes off the highway near Hope with nothing but forest around you. It floors me how people go and buy a place downtown or around downtown, a region with well over 80,000 people crammed into a small little area, then they cry about noise.

That's exactly the type of reasoning that had the Indy in Vancouver on the ropes for so long before it was eventually moved anyway. "It's so loud!" then everyone else says "It's 3 bloody days!"

If you want quiet go live in the forest with the deer or buy an appartment that backs onto either a non-busy street or back alley.

[zivan56]

Modern is a "higher end" club, but higher end just means higher priced. In fact, it is a standard club at best compared to worldwide ones. It has been open for quite some time, so I am baffled why he would buy a place so close to a bunch of clubs...and especially close to that one.
I would say he is lucky that the club is the only source of noise, as Gastown is far from a quiet place like say Coal Harbour.

[Nutterbug]

^ There's a reason why I've been in Asia for so long. I want to go back eventually, I just don't know when. Vancouver has become a great place for me when I'm 40+ and in a stable job with a family. Shanghai, on the otherhand, offers so much in terms of job opportunities and excitement in general. What I've managed to accomplish here in two short years would have been impossible back in Vancouver. I also feel like I'm treated like a child in Vancouver/BC. Whether it's an asshole bouncer or a condesending cop, I'm just not feeling the love.

Doesn't it say something about you if you have to interact with the bouncers and cops so much to matter? It tells me you're not a squeaky clean model citizen who always stays out of trouble.

[Nutterbug]

But it goes beyond Vancouver, frankly. The cities of Asia, including the ones mentioned here (Hiroshima, Hong Kong) are young, dynamic, dense, vibrant and business-friendly. Compared to North America's cities, they are the future.

I thought Japan, of all places, had an inverse age distribution pyramid that was getting so severe that they've started programs to encourage its citizens to have more children. (I guess importing young foreigners or holding off retirement till 90 is out of the question, eh?)

[zivan56]

Doesn't it say something about you if you have to interact with the bouncers and cops so much to matter? It tells me you're not a squeaky clean model citizen who always stays out of trouble.

Have you been to a club recently?
There is usually a line outside, which the bouncer decides which of who he lets in. When you get to the door, he can tell you to "fuck off" and not let you in if he decides to. Also, there is always a police car near the line, with the police hassling people they see fit in the line.
So I would love to you actually go to a club and avoid at least one of those two :haha:

[Nutterbug]

Have you been to a club recently?
There is usually a line outside, which the bouncer decides which of who he lets in. When you get to the door, he can tell you to "fuck off" and not let you in if he decides to. Also, there is always a police car near the line, with the police hassling people they see fit in the line.
So I would love to you actually go to a club and avoid at least one of those two :haha:

Under what circumstances will they normally tell you to "fuck off" and turn you away?

Clubbing while brown?

[Nutterbug]

One more thing. There's a perfectly simple solution to the above problem.

Vote with your feet and boycott establishments with asshole staff. Spread the word about them too. That is how a free market economy works.

[zivan56]

Under what circumstances will they normally tell you to "fuck off" and turn you away?

Clubbing while brown?

When they feel like it. They can just say the place is full if you call the police or someone. I don't think it's hard for them to make up an excuse.
The point is you are bound to come into contact with one or the other, or both, no matter how much of a model citizen you are.

[Nutterbug]

If a club is so popular that people wait in line to get in, why don't they jack up the cover charge to keep the supply in balance with the demand, not to mention making more profit?

[Rusty Gull]

^Because club owners often think with their egos instead of their understanding of economics.

No wonder so many clubs in this city go out of business.

[SpongeG]

the after hours on granville is usually ok and if you want to drink you ask for the "special" but the cover charge is getting outrageous the last time my friends went it was like $35

but at least you can dance till 8 am

[SpongeG]

wtf? midnight???? whose idea was this?


this city is becoming a complete joke.

no kidding eh

waht if you work till 11 pm and want to join your friends on west 4th or broadway or wherever outside the downtown core for a drink or two and avoid the "entertainment" district

you will have no choice - no wonder more and more people just stay at home and have house parties

[Vancity4life]

Don't worry...if this law does come into effect underground raves will once again become part of the forefront of Vancouver's nightlife, this I can guarantee. No matter what law the government decides to pass they can never stifle one of the most basic human instincts. To Party it up!! :cheers:

[mr.x]

Don't worry...if this law does come into effect underground raves will once again become part of the forefront of Vancouver's nightlife, this I can guarantee. No matter what law the government decides to pass they can never stifle one of the most basic human instincts. To Party it up!! :cheers:

or how about SkyTrain raves? :D at least it opens till past 1 am.


anyhow, this is making me sick....all of a sudden, we've taken 4 steps forward on this issue and then all of a sudden we took a huge backwards leap.

[Jacques]

Modern is a "higher end" club, but higher end just means higher priced. In fact, it is a standard club at best compared to worldwide ones. It has been open for quite some time, so I am baffled why he would buy a place so close to a bunch of clubs...and especially close to that one.
I would say he is lucky that the club is the only source of noise, as Gastown is far from a quiet place like say Coal Harbour.

We purchased this loft in 2002, there was no CLUB then. that is six years ago, no one wanted to live here due to the drugs, but we took a risk and after 7 pm everything was totally quiet so, that is why we bought then:tup:

[zivan56]

I know there were a bunch of clubs in the area...not too sure about what was located at the site of modern. Regardless, there are other clubs in the area that would create such problems. Anyways, it was a risk you took...and ended up living with it. When I bought my place on Cambie, I never though there was even a remote possibility of a huge ditch and 2 years of loud, earth shaking, construction equipment running 12 hours a day a dozen meters from me...but it happened.

[mr.x]

'No-fun city' seeks change of image
City successful in attracting events that engage the city's residents and provide attractions for tourists

Glenn Bohn, Vancouver Sun
Published: Friday, March 28, 2008

VANCOUVER - An international triathlon, a South Asian dance and music festival and car-free days in five Vancouver neighbourhoods are three of the hundreds of special events proposed in the city this year. Muriel Honey, co-author of a city of Vancouver staff report going to council Thursday, says most of the 167 applications on file come from organizers of the largest events, events that seem to be getting larger and larger. She expects about 500 events this year, roughly the same number as last year, but street festivals seem to be getting larger.

"We have bigger and more complex events coming to Vancouver all the time," she said Thursday during an interview.

Media pundits and entertainment entrepreneurs branded Vancouver a "no-fun city" when police warned rowdies in 2000 not to get caught with liquor in downtown Vancouver on New Year's Eve. Nightclub owner Vance Campbell later cooked up a "Funcouver" campaign.:hell: :hell: :hell:

In 2001, the Vancouver Grizzlies basketball team moved to Memphis. The Molson Indy, an annual car race, left in 2004.:hell: :hell: :hell:

Honey, who in the past did media relations work for the mayor's office, doesn't like to be reminded about that "no-fun Vancouver" buzz.

According to the report she co-wrote with Dave Rieberger, "the city has been very successful in attracting events that engage the city's residents, provide attractions for tourists, and contribute to the city's image as a fun and vibrant city."

The report states that the public has been "very tolerant" of street-oriented events, (what??? since when?:koko: ) but recommends that staff investigate the merits of a policy that would restrict the frequency of events in any one area.

It notes the Vancouver park board already has that kind of policy: "For example, road closures to facilitate running events in Stanley Park are limited to one per month and no road closures are permitted in July and August."

gbohn@png.canwest.com


© The Vancouver Sun 2008

[zivan56]

Street oriented events? The only one remotely fun was the Greek one, which was shut down because of people drinking.
I honest don't see why drinking while walking around/in a park is not allowed. Not public drunkenness and anarchy, but simply having a beer while having a BBQ or walking around with friends.
Stuff like that is the norm in most of the world, and they don't have issues with self control at all.

[Yume-sama]

Street oriented events? The only one remotely fun was the Greek one, which was shut down because of people drinking.
I honest don't see why drinking while walking around/in a park is not allowed. Not public drunkenness and anarchy, but simply having a beer while having a BBQ or walking around with friends.
Stuff like that is the norm in most of the world, and they don't have issues with self control at all.

Agreed, however, they also clean up after themselves in a lot of other places. I can see it turning in to a huge public hazard, more so than it is now. People don't actually follow those rules, do they? :sly:

Anyways, I think the whole issue is crazy. If it's against the law to be open past midnight, than only outlaws will be out past midnight. And everybody will be an outlaw, one way or another... and it will most likely go in to the pockets of organized crime, strengthening them even more than they are now. Have they learned nothing since prohibition?

[zivan56]

^^ Exactly.
Of course cleaning up after themselves in implied, but there shouldn't be red tape regarding proving of cleaning up the place and whatnot.

[agrant]

So what it all comes down to is people here can't handle their liquor.

[Yume-sama]

^^ Exactly.
Of course cleaning up after themselves in implied, but there shouldn't be red tape regarding proving of cleaning up the place and whatnot.

Well, it could certainly provide more jobs for certain housekeepers. ;)

[zivan56]

Well, it could certainly provide more jobs for certain housekeepers. ;)

Too bad housekeepers work inside only...hence the name :haha:

[giallo]

Doesn't it say something about you if you have to interact with the bouncers and cops so much to matter? It tells me you're not a squeaky clean model citizen who always stays out of trouble.

That's a reasonable question, except that I'm pretty much one of the most law-abiding guys you'll meet.

I used a bouncer and a cop as an example because these are people that I never have to deal with in SH, but back home they seem to have a lot of influence in my life whether I'm looking for it or not.

A couple of examples:

When I was back in Vancouver two winters ago, I had to go to Ginger with my bro and his fiance for her birthday. She lived close, so we walked there. I had just cracked a beer and decided to take it with me (ok, so I'm not completely law-abiding, but I've been in Asia for awhile and the no-open-alcohol-in-public rule slipped my mind). We get to the artificially long line and immediately I'm grabbed by my collar and pulled out of the queue by some douche-bag bouncer. He grabs my beer and tells me that there isn't a chance in hell that I'm going in. So my night was ruined because I decided to a have drink on the sidewalk. Fun.

I was driving with my friend one late night in Kelowna when we came to a traffic light that seemed to be broken. It was around 3 in the morning and this red light was not changing. After about four minutes my friend decided to slowly pull out, look both ways and roll through. Next thing we know red and blue lights are flashing behind us. This cop must have known that this light was a great way to make her quota because she cut us no slack. Actually, she wouldn't even listen to us despite our reasonable argument. In the end, my friend got a ticket for running a red light and she also fined him for not having his insurance registered in Vancouver.


It's events like these that make me really bitter towards home. Hopefully, things will change.

[Nutterbug]

Concentrating all of Vancouver's late night clubs in one area is about as effective as concentrating all of Vancouver's social services in one area. We all know how that turned out.

Probably a deliberately intended containment area for policing convenience.

[Nutterbug]

After living in Asia (Taiwan and Shanghai) for the past five years, I can assure you how lame Vancouver looks to an outsider that likes to have fun at night. Being away from Vancouver for so long has afforded me a different perspective on it's nightlife, and it isn't good. In Shanghai I can buy an assortment of wine, spirits and beer 24 hours a day from the corner store. Clubs close when they feel they should as there are no laws saying otherwise. Listening to live jazz at 3am with a bunch of barflys in Shanghai is a unique experience, let me tell ya.
If Shanghai is an unfair comparison due to it's size then I can use Tainan, Taiwan (pop. 1,100,000) as another example. Same thing there. Clubs close when they want. Spirits and beer available at the 7-11 24 hours a day.
A free-for-all laissez faire approach towards alcohol probably works better in a predominantly Asian population, where the people are mostly lightweight drinkers with a lower rate of alcoholism.

I was driving with my friend one late night in Kelowna when we came to a traffic light that seemed to be broken. It was around 3 in the morning and this red light was not changing. After about four minutes my friend decided to slowly pull out, look both ways and roll through. Next thing we know red and blue lights are flashing behind us. This cop must have known that this light was a great way to make her quota because she cut us no slack. Actually, she wouldn't even listen to us despite our reasonable argument. In the end, my friend got a ticket for running a red light and she also fined him for not having his insurance registered in Vancouver.
Take your case to court and argue, if you feel so strongly about it. You may win by default, if she's been dicking many others at that intersection and can't bother to show up to them all. Besides, a little activism is needed to correct these things.

Hold up a picture of the Dalai Lama in China, on the other hand...

[clooless]

We get to the artificially long line and immediately I'm grabbed by my collar and pulled out of the queue by some douche-bag bouncer. He grabs my beer and tells me that there isn't a chance in hell that I'm going in. So my night was ruined because I decided to a have drink on the sidewalk. Fun.

The bouncer actually yanked you by the collar? No, no, no, no. They cannot touch you anymore than I could reach out and grab you on the street. That is simple assault.

[giallo]

A free-for-all laissez faire approach towards alcohol probably works better in a predominantly Asian population, where the people are mostly lightweight drinkers with a lower rate of alcoholism.


Take your case to court and argue, if you feel so strongly about it. You may win by default, if she's been dicking many others at that intersection and can't bother to show up to them all. Besides, a little activism is needed to correct these things.

Hold up a picture of the Dalai Lama in China, on the other hand...

Ha! I've never, ever heard of anyone winning a case against the RCMP if the police officer shows up. Besides, it wasn't my car and I wasn't driving.

Oh, and I'm by no means propping Shanghai or China up to be some beacon of freedom. I just happen to enjoy Shanghai a lot more than Vancouver at this point in my life.
As far as holding up a picture of the Dalai Lama, I guess if you were to go in front of some government building flapping it around they'd rip it out of your hands and physically remove you from the premises or bring you in for questioning. Doesn't sound fair, but neither does my friend getting strip searched on the side of the street in suburban Kelowna under the false suspicion of drugs. Drugs that never existed.

Clooless, yeah, I know what that guy did was wrong, but I wasn't going to pursue it. I get home once a year and just want to spend time with my friends and family, not going after some wanker because he's on a steriod diet and has a small dick.

[Bert]

That's a reasonable question, except that I'm pretty much one of the most law-abiding guys you'll meet.

I used a bouncer and a cop as an example because these are people that I never have to deal with in SH, but back home they seem to have a lot of influence in my life whether I'm looking for it or not.

A couple of examples:

When I was back in Vancouver two winters ago, I had to go to Ginger with my bro and his fiance for her birthday. She lived close, so we walked there. I had just cracked a beer and decided to take it with me (ok, so I'm not completely law-abiding, but I've been in Asia for awhile and the no-open-alcohol-in-public rule slipped my mind). We get to the artificially long line and immediately I'm grabbed by my collar and pulled out of the queue by some douche-bag bouncer. He grabs my beer and tells me that there isn't a chance in hell that I'm going in. So my night was ruined because I decided to a have drink on the sidewalk. Fun.

I was driving with my friend one late night in Kelowna when we came to a traffic light that seemed to be broken. It was around 3 in the morning and this red light was not changing. After about four minutes my friend decided to slowly pull out, look both ways and roll through. Next thing we know red and blue lights are flashing behind us. This cop must have known that this light was a great way to make her quota because she cut us no slack. Actually, she wouldn't even listen to us despite our reasonable argument. In the end, my friend got a ticket for running a red light and she also fined him for not having his insurance registered in Vancouver.


It's events like these that make me really bitter towards home. Hopefully, things will change.
I've only been in Shanghai for a little bit, but I wouldn't complain about BC traffic cops - in my entire driving career in BC, I've never been ticketed for anything!

But, one time in Shanghai, in the span of a couple hours, we got two traffic tickets.

The first was a no left-turn sign in one alley which was tucked behind a corner, and way up high, so that unless you were looking skyward rather than, you know, actually watching the sidewalk in front of you for pedestrians, you wouldn't see it. Apparently the cop knew about this sign though, and was having fun writing up tickets for everyone who turned left out of that alley.

The second was for exiting an elevated freeway, where apparently the right lane turns into a bus lane by the time it hits street level. We did not know this, and travelled a whole half-block in it before realizing it, at which point it was too late and a cop pulled us over (another strategically located cop to be sure).

So meeting a quota of traffic tickets? I see cops in Shanghai pulling over person-after-person (sometimes several at a time), doing nothing but writing tickets. Sure, there is some of that in BC, but not to the same extent.

The key difference though is the corruption in Shanghai. It was blood-boiling seeing the officer wave hello to car-after-car also using the bus lane, who the guy apparently knew or maybe they were flashing some kind of ID or something, while he was writing us other poor schmucks tickets! :hell:

[cornholio]

Nutterbug im wondering if you have ever lived outside of Vancouver or outside of Canada? My guess would be that you havent.

A free-for-all laissez faire approach towards alcohol works everywhere except muslim countries and America/Canada(might be some other countries out there that are as retarded as the mentioned ones when it comes to alcohol but I cant think of any right now, and I definitely havent passed through any on my travels).

[Greco Roman]

Seriously? This is happening? That's a shame.

[giallo]

I've only been in Shanghai for a little bit, but I wouldn't complain about BC traffic cops - in my entire driving career in BC, I've never been ticketed for anything!

But, one time in Shanghai, in the span of a couple hours, we got two traffic tickets.

The first was a no left-turn sign in one alley which was tucked behind a corner, and way up high, so that unless you were looking skyward rather than, you know, actually watching the sidewalk in front of you for pedestrians, you wouldn't see it. Apparently the cop knew about this sign though, and was having fun writing up tickets for everyone who turned left out of that alley.

The second was for exiting an elevated freeway, where apparently the right lane turns into a bus lane by the time it hits street level. We did not know this, and travelled a whole half-block in it before realizing it, at which point it was too late and a cop pulled us over (another strategically located cop to be sure).

So meeting a quota of traffic tickets? I see cops in Shanghai pulling over person-after-person (sometimes several at a time), doing nothing but writing tickets. Sure, there is some of that in BC, but not to the same extent.

The key difference though is the corruption in Shanghai. It was blood-boiling seeing the officer wave hello to car-after-car also using the bus lane, who the guy apparently knew or maybe they were flashing some kind of ID or something, while he was writing us other poor schmucks tickets! :hell:

I feel your frustration.
We seem to have had polar opposite experiences. I've never had to deal with a single police officer in China, yet I go home for a few weeks in BC and have them coming out of the woodwork*. Weird.


*I should specify that the 'they' I'm talking about are the RCMP. I've never had any problems with city cops, but the RCMP in Kelowna behaved so badly while I was growing up they basically lost my generation's respect.

[Nutterbug]

Nutterbug im wondering if you have ever lived outside of Vancouver or outside of Canada? My guess would be that you havent.
Calgary as a kid. Japan as a wee little tot.

A free-for-all laissez faire approach towards alcohol works everywhere except muslim countries and America/Canada(might be some other countries out there that are as retarded as the mentioned ones when it comes to alcohol but I cant think of any right now, and I definitely havent passed through any on my travels).
I do believe that different demographics have different rates of alcoholism though. Even within Europe, I suspect you have less of a drinking problem per capita in the Southern European countries than you would up north or in Russia. Running a 24/7 drinking establishment on a Native reserve is probably a recipe for disaster.

[Nutterbug]

What's more, I suspect more young people own cars and drive per capita in North America than in just about every other part of the world, and making alcohol more freely available will increase DUI incidents.

We also don't have as good a public transit infrastructure or a culture that appreciates it the way they do either.

[zivan56]

The possibility of increasing DUI rates is a pretty lame excuse against longer hours. I would say they would stay the same regardless of when the place closes. In fact, people would just buy liquor and drink it in a park or somewhere with friends rather than a licensed establishment.

[cornholio]

If you want to decrease DUI rates then you would want to allow more pubs/bars/clubs to open and to allow these places to stay open longer. There is nothing worse then having these places located far away from most people and then having them close early making it more difficult for people to arrange another way to get home. Someone might be able to get a ride at 1am but if the pub closes at midnight then there is less incentive to wait for a hour to catch that ride.

[crazyjoeda]

In many cities around the world clubs and bars do not even get busy until 10-11pm. So the morons at Vancouver's city hall expect people to go out early and be home before the lock down?? It should be legal to drink on the streets in Vancouver. Why can't I watch the fireworks in the park with a beer? Instead the city forces people to mix drinks in unmarked plastic bottles. What is the point of that?

Anyways what a lame bylaw, I hope the city comes to their senses soon. Vancouver has a lot going for it, so I have to wonder why the city puts up road blocks to becoming an even better place to live.

[zivan56]

An interesting poll (from a while back)
http://www.boardoftrade.com/sov_page.asp?pageid=196

About the poll
It was a telephone survey of 500 people from Hope to Horseshoe Bay done by McIntyre & Mustel and commissioned by The Province and BCTV.

IS VANCOUVER BORING?
Poll found most people are very satisfied living in Vancouver.
468 satisfied
30 not satisfied
But 51% said Vancouver is becoming a "No Fun Zone."

A sampling of the questions:
Some people think the Lower Mainland is becoming a "No Fun Zone," due to the apparent loss of such cultural events as the Symphony of Fire and the Molson Indy and restrictions like those at area beaches.

Do you agree or disagree that the region is becoming a "No Fun Zone"?
51% agree (253 people)
45% disagree (225)

Do you think Vancouver is more boring or less boring than it used to be?
45% said more boring (225 people)
25% said less boring (126 people)
21% said no different (103 people)
9% said don't know (46 people)

In what ways is Vancouver more boring? What are some examples? (225 people polled)
67% said lack of events, events getting cancelled
38% said loss of the Symphony of Fire
27% said loss of the Molson Indy
13% said too many restrictions, rules and regulations, police overly militaristic

How satisfied are you with the following aspect of life in the Lower Mainland? Cultural events such as the Children's Festival, Abbotsford Air Show and PNE.
82% satisfied
11% not satisfied

How satisfied are you with the following aspect of life in the Lower Mainland? Activities for visitors and tourists.
88% satisfied
5% not satisfied

How satisfied are you with the value for money of professional sports events?
36% satisfied
46% not satisfied

How satisfied are you with the value for money at the movies?
47% satisfied
39% not satisfied

How satisfied are you with the value for money of entertainment in the region?
76% satisfied
16% not satisfied

The government should financially assist cultural events. Do you agree or disagree?
70% agree
27% disagree

The government should financially assist professional sports teams.
25% agree
72% disagree

The government should financially assist the Vancouver Grizzlies.
22% agree
74% disagree

Who should initiate changes in quality of life?
60% provincial government
48% municipal governments
43% regional governments
40% residents themselves
31% business community
27% parks boards
25% federal government

How satisfied are you with the friendliness of your neighbourhood?
86% satisfied
12% not satisfied

Courtesy of McIntyre & Mustel,
The Province and BCTV



A google search of "vancouver boring" will come up with a bunch of forum discussion and whatnot as well.

[Nutterbug]

In many cities around the world clubs and bars do not even get busy until 10-11pm. So the morons at Vancouver's city hall expect people to go out early and be home before the lock down?? It should be legal to drink on the streets in Vancouver. Why can't I watch the fireworks in the park with a beer?

Have you seen some of the jackasses that show up to the fireworks drunk? Have you wondered why fights and rumbles break out after it?

Unfortunate, but unless laws are changed to allow preemptive extermination of rowdy drunken idiots, you're going to have to live with the collective punishment for the masses on the account of the irresponsible few.

[worldwide]

vancouver may have a lame club scene, but clubbing sucks. dont get me wrong i like drinking and partying as much as the next guy i just hate the bar scene.

luckily vancouver makes up for this by having some of the most plentiful and best skateparks in north america, great skiing, snowboarding, mountain biking, hiking, kyaking... you name it the list goes on... the city is what you make it.

[mr.x]

luckily vancouver makes up for this by having some of the most plentiful and best skateparks in north america, great skiing, snowboarding, mountain biking, hiking, kyaking... you name it the list goes on... the city is what you make it.

Those are more like gifts from nature, we hardly earned it.

[zivan56]

vancouver may have a lame club scene, but clubbing sucks. dont get me wrong i like drinking and partying as much as the next guy i just hate the bar scene.


For me, it's more like I hate going to clubs in Vancouver. I've had great times in Europe, while here I drink to forget the time and money wasted that night. IMO the clubs here are too uptight and have a really weird atmosphere to them. Hardly enjoyable to say the least compared to others around the world.

[Inland Driver]

Not being from Van, I had the opportunity to have a few (understatement) drinks at a place I believe was called the Lamplighter? In Gas Town. I had a great time though the drinks were a bit more expensive than I'm used to but not outrageous.

Shutting down places at 12 is garbage. If there is some kind of noise issue involving residential, then re-zone one or the other. Like someone else mentioned earlier, generally speaking, folks dont go out to the clubs early. If they did , do you think almost ALL the places out there would have "high ball specials between 7 and 9"???LOL

[jlousa]

I think some people might have the wrong impression on what goes on in other places though. Being in western europe countless times usally for months at a time, I can assure you that people do not drink in public. Sure you can walk into almost any store and buy liquor, you just do not see anyone enjoying it on the streets.
Also most restaurants close even earlier then they do here, they do not even open for dinner until after 6pm but come 10pm most of them are closed, even on the weekends.
The club scene is very different in that most don't even open till after 10pm and they don't get busy until 1ish. They are all in an entertainment district not unlike ours, some are even located on the outskirts of towns.
In between the restaurants closing and people going to the clubs they usally hang out at coffee shops where liquor is also served, most people don't drink there though they just have some coffees while they wait for the clubs to get busy. These coffee shops also close at about 1am.
Things really aren't that different, with the exemption of the clubs staying open till around 4am on the weekends, in the summer some stay open until 6am.

[worldwide]

Those are more like gifts from nature, we hardly earned it.

you missed the point... if you want to go out to a ridiculous party ever night then maybe Vancouver isnt your scene, but if you want to rip it up on some gnarly terrain then what better place to do it. adrenaline is better than any drug (alcohol included) its not all about the party. fun is a subjective term

[Nutterbug]

It should be legal to drink on the streets in Vancouver.

What's more, if this were to be the case, the responsibility should be 100% on the drunken pedestrian if he/she were to have a bad encounter with an automobile.

[cornholio]

What's more, if this were to be the case, the responsibility should be 100% on the drunken pedestrian if he/she were to have a bad encounter with an automobile.

Um what do you think happens when a person leaves a bar, a club or house party after drinking. We already have a law against drunk and belligerent behavior in the public, why the hell we need one to prevent people from having a beer in a park or walking down the street to a party or a friends house or whatever. On top of that why the hell is it illegal to have open liquor in a car, if im a passenger and want to have a beer then i should be able to have a beer. Thats what we have breathalyser tests for drivers. These are just idiotic and pointless laws which serve only one purpose, to make daily life a bigger hassle then it should and to take away basic freedoms. I mean why, i just dont get it, are we that stupid that we cant get over a few bible thumping, bra wearing nothing better to do house wives that pushed through idiotic laws ages ago.

[Nutterbug]

Um what do you think happens when a person leaves a bar, a club or house party after drinking.
May the responsibility to not get hit by a car rest on them too, and not the driver.

On top of that why the hell is it illegal to have open liquor in a car, if im a passenger and want to have a beer then i should be able to have a beer. Thats what we have breathalyser tests for drivers.
Because breathalyser tests can't be everywhere all the time.

[cornholio]

you missed the point... if you want to go out to a ridiculous party ever night then maybe Vancouver isnt your scene, but if you want to rip it up on some gnarly terrain then what better place to do it. adrenaline is better than any drug (alcohol included) its not all about the party. fun is a subjective term

Why not have both, who are you to say how other people should live their lives. And by the way I probably enjoy more of our natural wonders then most if not all the other people on here. Everything from back country skiing, hunting, camping, rock climbing, base jumping...suba diving and surfing once every couple year...mountain biking in the summer, fishing at least once a week for at least half the year...kayaking a couple times. If it involves outdoors then I do it or have done in. But guess what I also want to have a beer legally when I go fishing, or to a park, I want to be able to go with friends to a pub and not have to constantly pay attention to my watch, I want to have a neighborhood pub where I can go relax after work especially when I work evenings like I have for the past few years. I have lived outside of Vancouver for a good chunk of my life and I have seen how much better this place can be and it frustrates me when its such simple little things that need to be done BUT they not only dont get done but the city and province tries to push through even more idiotic laws and bi-laws.

[cornholio]

May the responsibility to not get hit by a car rest on them too, and not the driver.

Yes so why should that be a reason to ban drinking outside? And that is the case anyways.

Because breathalyser tests can't be everywhere all the time.
And again why should that be a reason to ban open liquor in a car when the driver is not drinking and hasnt drank. Its stupid and illogical, the only thing that it accomplishes is that it makes more rules and laws that need to be followed which just make living a normal, satisfied law abiding life that much more difficult.

[Nutterbug]

Yes so why should that be a reason to ban drinking outside? And that is the case anyways.
Because it's bound to increase the incidences of it?

And again why should that be a reason to ban open liquor in a car when the driver is not drinking and hasnt drank. Its stupid and illogical, the only thing that it accomplishes is that it makes more rules and laws that need to be followed which just make living a normal, satisfied law abiding life that much more difficult.
Because there's a danger that having open liquor in the cabin of a car may get passed around to the driver?

I get what you're saying about personal freedoms and all, but if restraining yourself from drinking to comply with these rules makes life so "difficult" to you, I think there's a good chance you've got yourself a drinking problem there.

Hopefully, these rules are in place not to protect anyone from themselves, but to protect everybody else from them.

[Holden West]

I just can't believe the stupidity of this. The No-Fun crowd is working hard to ensure we have no interesting art to look at.
http://a123.g.akamai.net/f/123/12465/1d/media.canada.com/idl/vapr/20080401/145949-48120.jpg
Most Coal Harbour residents never took to
sculpture of an upside-down church in Harbour Green Park.
Photograph by : Les Bazso, The Province


Stanley Park's Hollow Tree is now history

Board also votes to remove controversial upside-down sculpture


Christina Montgomery, The Province

Published: Tuesday, April 01, 2008

The board also voted to remove a seven-storey sculpture that was placed in Harbour Green Park in 2005.
Device to Root out Evil, a sculpture of an aluminum church driven into the ground by its steeple, drew mostly negative comment last year when the board contemplated making permanent what was originally an 18-month installation. don't have a problem with it never spoke up. That's how it usually works]

Many people argued that it blocked sight lines down Bute Street of the water and mountains; others were offended by what they called its anti-religious nature. ["Blocked sightlines"? Get serious. That empty space needs something there to engage it. "Anti-religious"? Ha! You could make the argument that it's actually pro-religious.]

Both votes took place before a capacity crowd that jeered both decisions.
Michella Frosch, chairwoman of the group that brought the Device to Vancouver in 2005 as part of the Biennale outdoor sculpture festival, warned the board that the "important" and "significant" work might be lost to another city if it was voted out of Coal Harbour. [I think this is true. You'll scare off the top artists and end up with more pablum].

Eleanor Hadley, a West End resident and regular critic of board policy, branded the work "obscene" and "a mockery of our religion and faith."
The board voted to have the sculpture removed within 60 days but asked staff to try to find another site in the city to house it.
http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j142/Theoldvictorian/sculpture_panorama.jpg
Holden West photo

I'm sure they would love this challenging and stunning work of art to be replaced by some friggin' whales (http://www.orcasinthecity.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vancouver.).

[cornholio]

Because it's bound to increase the incidences of it?

Do you really think that? I mean seriously if anything then it would reduce those incidents by allowing people to drink in a more reasonable time frame.

Because there's a danger that having open liquor in the cabin of a car may get passed around to the driver?

Oh man , come on listen to what you just said, it makes no sense what so ever. If a driver wants to drink and drive then they will do so, if their caught then they face the consequences. It doesnt matter if they decided to drink in a car, in a pub beforehand, on the street, do you really consider people for idiots who need babysitting?

I get what you're saying about personal freedoms and all, but if restraining yourself from drinking to comply with these rules makes life so "difficult" to you, I think there's a good chance you've got yourself a drinking problem there.

Hopefully, these rules are in place not to protect anyone from themselves, but to protect everybody else from them.
This is what scares me, especially if there is alot of people who think like you do. First of all little inconveniences add up to big inconveniences. Second of all once you get in to the paranoid mind frame of wanting to protect everyone from everyone then you set your self up for disaster.

Anyways the reason I probably have a problem with all this is because I have lived elsewhere, if I havent I probably wouldn't of cared about any of this because I wouldn't know any better...especially given the fact that we are told we live in the best place on earth I wouldn't even question these stupid laws. But thats just not the case.

[Nutterbug]

Do you really think that? I mean seriously if anything then it would reduce those incidents by allowing people to drink in a more reasonable time frame.
Here, I thought we were talking about being able to drink anywhere outside. Let anybody drink anywhere on the sidewalk and out in public, and I imagine you'll get more drunks spilling over onto the street or causing trouble for other people.

Oh man , come on listen to what you just said, it makes no sense what so ever. If a driver wants to drink and drive then they will do so, if their caught then they face the consequences. It doesnt matter if they decided to drink in a car, in a pub beforehand, on the street, do you really consider people for idiots who need babysitting?
Again, the police can't be everywhere all the time.

If you drink in a pub, at least you'll stop when you leave its premises. If you can drive inside a car while driving, you may just be tempted to keep drinking...and drinking...

Lobby for unlimited bar hours all you want, but I do feel alcohol has absolutely no place anywhere behind the wheel. Err on the side of caution.