mr.x
Apr 12, 2008, 7:13 AM
From the "We Condemn the Violence" group in Facebook, in response to last week's incident.
Green = sane comments
Red = moronic comments
Most of the pro-violence arguments on this wall are from the conformist perspective: Do as the authority figure tells you, and don't break any laws, and you do not deserve to have violence inflicted on you. Get out of line, break laws, be disobedient and you deserve to get hurt.
Authoritarianism, conformity to social norms, and internalized hegemony are comforting features of a rigid personality that work to alleviate anxiety. Trek Park and Knoll Aid challenge and perturb these rigid structures, evoking anxiety. The consequences are the dehumanizing, sociopathic tendencies evident below, and shortly - above. Crazy, huh?
---------------------
When you rise above the status quo, you will be hammered back down not just by state sanctioned violence like last Friday, but by the angst ridden conformist masses.
I just figure: Non illigitimi corborundum est!
Resistance, persistence, and peaceful coexistence.
---------------------
and the apathetic character of the masses. It is not pretty.
You seem to be confused. Maybe its all the sunlight on the scalp but, I don't think you quite understand what apathy is. All the criticism you have garnered is ACTION, against something that is offensive to us, your rhetoric works great when convincing 17yr old kids from the states to join you, not so great in actually defending yourself. If you want to have your voices and arguments respected, stop with the hyperliberalgreenwash.
---I think you will find a distinct shift in the general UBC population now that this incident is rather public. You assume that the general UBC student is too apathetic to join your cause, when in fact the average student simply disagrees with you, and is merely tolerant. Our tolerance has been pushed to the brink now that our reputations are tarnished by your actions in the news.---
------------------------------
"Yeah, we really pissed off a lot of conformists. We became the focus of what seems to have been a simmering bigotry and hatred. This all came spewing out in the last few days."
This protester-resister, 'non-conformist' language is exactly the kind of thing that makes people generally dislike you. When you verbally bombard other students for not having such an enlightened and 'non-conformist' mind like yourself, it reaps of the elitism which you should ostensibly hate. Basically your saying to students who don't sit in front of police squad cars:
"Hey conformist sheep, I know what's best for you because I have a the skill of super critical thinking - and surprise surprise - you don't because you're a lazy/docile/suburban conformist. You're aren't capable of challenging authority so I'll have to do it for you and assume to represent your interest."
This is radical-left elitism at its worst. And it is not helping you
------------------------
I appreciate the critique of hyperbolic and provocative language. Those of us who were closest to the events have been profoundly affected by our experiences of that night. As I said, we founded this group while 21 protesters were still in jail. We were outraged, shocked and hurt. These feelings continue for all of us.
Trek Park One began in September. We have been trying to establish a voice since then. It is a direct action protest. The language that accompanies it has been, by necessity, hyperbolic and provocative. I regret some of the more provocative things that I have said since the event. I hope that what I have said has not hurt anyone's feelings. If it has, I apologize and hope I can be forgiven.
I hope that we can come together as a community and, together, condemn the violence that characterized the events of April, 4th 2008 at UBC and support everyone who has been affected by them.
-----------
Yeah, we really pissed off a lot of conformists. We became the focus of what seems to have been a simmering bigotry and hatred. This all came spewing out in the last few days.
We have been trying to be heard, on behalf of students in general, for months. We used direct action as well as hyperbole and provocative language, among many other tactics.
We finally broke the surface tension. When we did we exposed the violent nature of the state, and the apathetic character of the masses. It is not pretty.
---------------------
Well youre right that the courts will decide. The officer has a duty to apprehend the situation better than they did however. And you support post 911 security culture laws? says something about you. Yeah there was screaming and profanity but these were 40 big guys with tasers. They couldnt handle some name calling? Sticks and stones will break my bones and all that?
----------------------
Obstruction of a peace officer is obstruction whether you like it or not, it is not up to the officer or the citizen, but for the court to decide who is guilty. It is legal to detain any person for up to 48hrs without pressing charges (post-911). I watched all the video, yelling, kids jumping around, chanting F@CK THE PIGS - looks like a mob to me.
-----------------------
Essentially the SDS has created a UBC student politics "political party". There's a whole bunch of you: Rodrigo Nunes, yourself Nathan Crompton, Stefanie Ratjen, Tristan Markle, Ed Durgan, Matt Filipiak.. just to name a few off the top of my head, who have all banded together and promote the same interests and agenda ("Save the Knoll" is just the latest incarnation). You all come off as wanting power, and attention. Respect is not important, for you do not care about gaining the respect of the average mindless conformist UBC student. As long as you get your power and your attention, you'll be fine to bask in the respect given out in the circle-jerk that is the SDS. And if you don't get your power, complain! (See the frivolous Crompton/Lougheed 'scandal').
This is why you do not have my support, and this is why I am critical of your actions. I look forward to your response.
-------------
Sadly, many aspects of the initial Trek Park protest have not been communicated effectively to the UBC student body. Some clarification about the initial protest is necessary:
1.It is not only about saving the Knoll! The Knoll is supposed to be a symbol of the undemocratic administration structure of the University. The unelected Board of Governors who decide all non-academic decision concerning UBC are selling campus land to build expensive private housing similar to what is going on behind Gage.
2.Members of the Board of Governors have economic interests in the companies that are building private housing on campus. Therefore it is not only undemocratic but also corrupt.
3.Thanks to the efforts of many engaged UBC students the plan to build private housing on the land of the current bus loop has been cancelled. The University still wants build the underground bus loop, for reasons uncertain, even though the new loop won’t fit trolley busses or the Skytrain that is coming
---------------------
Props to Nic Krause. The police have the right and duty to use force when necessary as it is may be required when enforcing laws. When the fire department comes and you step in the way of hoses, or when you actually do something as ridiculous as surround a cop car, you're going to get arrested. They were given warnings, and yes, force was likely used to arrest them. If you take issue with a decision made by the police don't surround a cop car, make a complaint, we live in a democratic society and if the arrest can't be justified then they'll probably get punished for it, but taking action directly against police only removes any ounce of legitimacy from the cause you're seeking to support.
Green = sane comments
Red = moronic comments
Most of the pro-violence arguments on this wall are from the conformist perspective: Do as the authority figure tells you, and don't break any laws, and you do not deserve to have violence inflicted on you. Get out of line, break laws, be disobedient and you deserve to get hurt.
Authoritarianism, conformity to social norms, and internalized hegemony are comforting features of a rigid personality that work to alleviate anxiety. Trek Park and Knoll Aid challenge and perturb these rigid structures, evoking anxiety. The consequences are the dehumanizing, sociopathic tendencies evident below, and shortly - above. Crazy, huh?
---------------------
When you rise above the status quo, you will be hammered back down not just by state sanctioned violence like last Friday, but by the angst ridden conformist masses.
I just figure: Non illigitimi corborundum est!
Resistance, persistence, and peaceful coexistence.
---------------------
and the apathetic character of the masses. It is not pretty.
You seem to be confused. Maybe its all the sunlight on the scalp but, I don't think you quite understand what apathy is. All the criticism you have garnered is ACTION, against something that is offensive to us, your rhetoric works great when convincing 17yr old kids from the states to join you, not so great in actually defending yourself. If you want to have your voices and arguments respected, stop with the hyperliberalgreenwash.
---I think you will find a distinct shift in the general UBC population now that this incident is rather public. You assume that the general UBC student is too apathetic to join your cause, when in fact the average student simply disagrees with you, and is merely tolerant. Our tolerance has been pushed to the brink now that our reputations are tarnished by your actions in the news.---
------------------------------
"Yeah, we really pissed off a lot of conformists. We became the focus of what seems to have been a simmering bigotry and hatred. This all came spewing out in the last few days."
This protester-resister, 'non-conformist' language is exactly the kind of thing that makes people generally dislike you. When you verbally bombard other students for not having such an enlightened and 'non-conformist' mind like yourself, it reaps of the elitism which you should ostensibly hate. Basically your saying to students who don't sit in front of police squad cars:
"Hey conformist sheep, I know what's best for you because I have a the skill of super critical thinking - and surprise surprise - you don't because you're a lazy/docile/suburban conformist. You're aren't capable of challenging authority so I'll have to do it for you and assume to represent your interest."
This is radical-left elitism at its worst. And it is not helping you
------------------------
I appreciate the critique of hyperbolic and provocative language. Those of us who were closest to the events have been profoundly affected by our experiences of that night. As I said, we founded this group while 21 protesters were still in jail. We were outraged, shocked and hurt. These feelings continue for all of us.
Trek Park One began in September. We have been trying to establish a voice since then. It is a direct action protest. The language that accompanies it has been, by necessity, hyperbolic and provocative. I regret some of the more provocative things that I have said since the event. I hope that what I have said has not hurt anyone's feelings. If it has, I apologize and hope I can be forgiven.
I hope that we can come together as a community and, together, condemn the violence that characterized the events of April, 4th 2008 at UBC and support everyone who has been affected by them.
-----------
Yeah, we really pissed off a lot of conformists. We became the focus of what seems to have been a simmering bigotry and hatred. This all came spewing out in the last few days.
We have been trying to be heard, on behalf of students in general, for months. We used direct action as well as hyperbole and provocative language, among many other tactics.
We finally broke the surface tension. When we did we exposed the violent nature of the state, and the apathetic character of the masses. It is not pretty.
---------------------
Well youre right that the courts will decide. The officer has a duty to apprehend the situation better than they did however. And you support post 911 security culture laws? says something about you. Yeah there was screaming and profanity but these were 40 big guys with tasers. They couldnt handle some name calling? Sticks and stones will break my bones and all that?
----------------------
Obstruction of a peace officer is obstruction whether you like it or not, it is not up to the officer or the citizen, but for the court to decide who is guilty. It is legal to detain any person for up to 48hrs without pressing charges (post-911). I watched all the video, yelling, kids jumping around, chanting F@CK THE PIGS - looks like a mob to me.
-----------------------
Essentially the SDS has created a UBC student politics "political party". There's a whole bunch of you: Rodrigo Nunes, yourself Nathan Crompton, Stefanie Ratjen, Tristan Markle, Ed Durgan, Matt Filipiak.. just to name a few off the top of my head, who have all banded together and promote the same interests and agenda ("Save the Knoll" is just the latest incarnation). You all come off as wanting power, and attention. Respect is not important, for you do not care about gaining the respect of the average mindless conformist UBC student. As long as you get your power and your attention, you'll be fine to bask in the respect given out in the circle-jerk that is the SDS. And if you don't get your power, complain! (See the frivolous Crompton/Lougheed 'scandal').
This is why you do not have my support, and this is why I am critical of your actions. I look forward to your response.
-------------
Sadly, many aspects of the initial Trek Park protest have not been communicated effectively to the UBC student body. Some clarification about the initial protest is necessary:
1.It is not only about saving the Knoll! The Knoll is supposed to be a symbol of the undemocratic administration structure of the University. The unelected Board of Governors who decide all non-academic decision concerning UBC are selling campus land to build expensive private housing similar to what is going on behind Gage.
2.Members of the Board of Governors have economic interests in the companies that are building private housing on campus. Therefore it is not only undemocratic but also corrupt.
3.Thanks to the efforts of many engaged UBC students the plan to build private housing on the land of the current bus loop has been cancelled. The University still wants build the underground bus loop, for reasons uncertain, even though the new loop won’t fit trolley busses or the Skytrain that is coming
---------------------
Props to Nic Krause. The police have the right and duty to use force when necessary as it is may be required when enforcing laws. When the fire department comes and you step in the way of hoses, or when you actually do something as ridiculous as surround a cop car, you're going to get arrested. They were given warnings, and yes, force was likely used to arrest them. If you take issue with a decision made by the police don't surround a cop car, make a complaint, we live in a democratic society and if the arrest can't be justified then they'll probably get punished for it, but taking action directly against police only removes any ounce of legitimacy from the cause you're seeking to support.