[amfarx]

Howdy all,

I'm a long term lurker of the forums of SSP (mostly admiring the diagrams and photography sections). Only recently have I been presented with the decision as to which degree program I'd like to pursue. I've always been fascinated with all-things-science related...pretty much anything on Discovery, History or The Learning Channels. One of the degree programs I'm looking at is architecture. I've always enjoyed drawing/sketching my own skyscraper, hotel or stadium designs, though I've never really gone into great detail (floorplans, etc - but I have almost always given them sort of a "common sense" thought).

Would anyone be able to give me some insight into the architectural real world in terms of what to expect at college? What to expect as a first year (I'll be around 30 when I graduate) architect? What kind of monetary compensation (how much will I be paid?!) to expect throughout a career? Depending on the job, will I be designing the bathrooms of a skyscraper for x amount of years before I am promoted to designing hallways, stairwells and elevator shafts?

I'm thinking of Architecture, again because I've always held an interest as well as I think a lot of the degree tracks are similar to most types of engineering...another field that interests me should I decide that architecture just isn't for me.

Thoughts, discussion and feedback are always welcome. Thanks in advance guys :)

[holladay]

Welcome to SSP, amfarx!

I'm a young architect with a couple of years of experience in the field that might be helpful for you.

If you are thinking about studying architecture, these are the things you probably should know:

1. Architecture school is a studio environment. You are given projects each semester that get increasingly complex as you move forward. At most schools your first year will consist of a lot of drawing, model-building, and presentation-making exercises. You may or may not be designing buildings. By second year you'll have designed houses, art studios, and small public or institutional buildings. By the time you get to third year you'll be doing much larger buildings, and materials and details will be an important aspect of the pedagogy. In many schools you do urban design during your fourth or fifth years.

2. Architectural education is in a transition state. Everything used to be done by hand but digital media are quickly being adopted in the schools (although arguably many schools have resisted the digital revolution and so this varies widely between schools.) I would recommend choosing a school that encourages both hand-work and computer-based design. For practice you will absolutely need to be proficient in AutoCAD, but that's really only a start. If you want a good design position you'll also need Photoshop, Illustrator, Rhino, 3dsMax, VIZ, etc. I mistakenly chose a school that didn't put enough emphasis on learning the software so I have had to catch up in this regard.

3. Expect lots of long hours if you want to be successful in your studies. Most architecture students slave away on nights and weekends in order to get their design work done. Endless 'all-nighters' are very common once you approach deadlines.

4. Architecture schools are organized so that 10-14 students are grouped in a studio under a common instructor. You will go to studio 3 days a week for 4-5 hours each day and work with your instructor. He/she will help guide you as you develop your project. You will have regular pin-ups where you are required to present your work to your instructor, your classmates, or to a jury of other professors in the college. Some pin-ups are to assist with design progress, and then the ultimate design reviews occur when you finish the project. You quickly get used to being criticized publicly in this process. During your first year you will learn what it takes to make a successful presentation and how to convey your ideas both visually and orally. The whole process builds a lot of community between the students, because you are constantly seeing what other students are trying and you will discuss your ideas with one another. The pressure of avoiding a bad design review is something every architecture student understands. So people tend to bond over their shared stress loads.

5. In addition to studio you will take a number of other classes: Certainly you can expect the basic college curriculum, but also physics, calc 1-2, structures, environmental design, construction tech, materials, architectural history, architectural theory and criticism, and numerous electives will be apart of your education. Really these classes help give you a well-rounded understanding of the profession, but your focus will always be studio. When it comes down to studying for your calc exam versus completing your design you will have to choose your building. It's sort of an unspoken rule of architecture schools.

6. Design school is a lot of fun and is really about creativity. You learn how to think about buildings, and how to take your ideas and turn them into buildings that actually work. Contrary to popular belief you won't be calculating structures to determine how to make things stand up - that's more what the engineers do. Rather, you'll be learning how to conceptualize space and how to organize programs and structures.

............................

OK, I could go on and on on this topic but I think that's a good start. Now on to practice... I've only been practicing a short while so my knowledge on this subject is limited to what you can do when you are starting your career:

1. You will come to know that architecture school and professional practice share a lot of things in common and also have many differences, depending on the choice you make regarding size and type of firm to work for. If you work in a small firm you may find that you will have more responsibilities, and can involved at deeper levels in the projects you're assigned to than if you work at a medium or large firm. The firm I work for is very small so I often make a lot of design decisions and oversee projects under construction. In a larger firm I might have to spend most of my time 'doing redlines' - which is architectural lingo for having to fix CAD mistakes on drawings that have been marked up by the design architects.

2. Your salary as well as your responsibilities will have a lot to do with your skills and how successful you are at taking on tasks. For most architects today you can expect to start fresh out of school somewhere in the 40s. That could be high or low 40s, although the standard is somewhere around
40-45. I started in this range, but found that with hard work and a great boss I was able to quickly advance beyond that. Within a year my salary had increased about 50%. This is very uncommon probably, but I think that it proves that you control how valuable you are. And if you're in a place that you're able to be successful in, you may find that you can move up quickly. You of course won't be able to get accredited before 3 years, but that really isn't important in determining your position level. You can be a design architect in 3-5 years, a project manager in 8. It all really depends on you. And by the time you get to that level you can do very well financially...

...................................

Ok, that's all I have time for right now. I hope this helps. And feel free to ask more questions if you have them. We need more good architects out there!

[NeiNastran]

What is your geographical location? Perhaps some forum members can discuss some of the good schools in your area.

[amfarx]

Wow realm...awesome reply, thanks :) I read it soon after you posted, but I've been super busy with my little sister's wedding. People flew in from pretty much everywhere for it, so for the last few weeks (yes, weeks haha), I've been entertaining cousins, aunts, uncles, godmothers, godfathers, in-laws and family friends. It was pretty fun though, apparently there's even pictures of me dancing... :)

I live in Houston, Texas.

[holladay]

Glad to help.

Since you're in Houston you should definitely check out Rice and UH. Both schools have good architecture programs and I've known people who went to each school. I'm guessing that since it's summer there probably isn't a lot to see right now (I may be wrong though, especially if either school has a summer studio) but it's a good idea to take a tour and see the studio and facilities so you can get an idea of what a design school is like. I always like to find out when the design juries are going on so I can sit in and watch. That's the best way to become familiar with a program and see what ideas/concepts the school stresses.

[Lecom]

They'll tell you that architecture school is really tough and you'll work your butt off. Well, that's true. However, I wouldn't trade my all-nighters hunched over models, drafts and projects for any other major. And while it sometimes is disappointing that your buddies take business (aka drinking) as a major and have loads of free time, I'm really content with my major. The design process is exhilirating, having a set of problems on your hands, having to come up with a creative solution for it, seeing it evolve and eventually getting your hands on the final product. It is an extremely rewarding feeling. Studio atmosphere is fun too. You spend the nights talking to people next to you, blasting music, etc. One night, for instance, our professor assigned us an enormous model due the next day. All of us were extremely bummed out about it so we decided to get trashed, and we did - I downed two forties and some wine and Jager, all the while building that model. The next day the teacher was very surprised as to why everyone looked like shit and no one had finished that model. Eventually, however, that same model extended into a couple weeks worth of extremely underslept (though sober, heh) nights, with a few all-nighters here and there, but the final product is something that many of my non-arch friends marvel at and, honestly, I still do too. And, if managed properly, you'll be able to maintain an intense social life while maintaining quite decent grades, and I'm not even one of those crazy well-rounded people who do all these things at once and I suck at multi-tasking.

One of the degree programs I'm looking at is architecture. I've always enjoyed drawing/sketching my own skyscraper, hotel or stadium designs, though I've never really gone into great detail (floorplans, etc - but I have almost always given them sort of a "common sense" thought).


I used to do that as a kid a lot, too. And, contrary to my expectations, in arch school common sense is a much more valuable asset than strong knowledge of math or exceptional drawing skills (though being at least decent at sketching and drawing is a must). You can always get an engineer to tell hou exactly how much weight a beam can hold (though you must have a decent perception of things like that yourself, too), but it's your specific job to know how to manage people through architecture and how to make a design that works for all of its users. I, too, used to draw a lot of skyscrapers. Now, however, I don't even seem to do that as much, and have instead grown an enormous appreciation for stuff I pretty much didn't care for before - smaller houses, historical styles, etc. Speaking of the latter, I always found historical styles to be a bunch of fancy mumbo-jumbo till I took a course of arch history last year, and was blown away. It puts the world, and the societies we live in, in such different perspectives. Now, I can appreciate pretty much any building for its own qualities rather than going "wow, that's nice cause this building is all antique and stuff" or "this one is nice cause it's all avant-garde, jagged and whatnot". I now have a better perception as to why its historic masters applied the details they did, or the reasons (or maybe the absense of such) that caused the architects to put up the abovementioned jagged walls.

You have to really like architecture to remain in the course, as the major is quite demanding. However, if you decide it's not for you then you can always switch major. Buf if you do like it, you won't regret the choice, trust me. I sure as hell don't regret it.

For most of my life I've been interested in architecture but in high school I dedided to go into law, for the money. However, a thread similar to this one knocked some common sense back into me. I thought, "well sure I'll get paid about as much as a schoolteacher, but if others can get along just fine, then hell, why can't I? At least I'll spend my life doing something that I like rather than growing to old age and having my only achievement being an additional parking spot in my garage." Besides, if you make it big, you make it BIG."

Congrats for your sister's wedding btw. You cool with her new man?

[urbanlife]

well much of what you need to know has already been covered. My two cents, pick a school that matches you, I moved to the northwest because the schools up here are more creative in the sense that they push alot more theory and design over program. Also know the difference between accredited and non accredited. I made the mistake of picking a non accredited degree, thus I will have to go for my masters, but luckily it looks like we will be adding one by the time I am ready for it. But either option is good, I am more than happy to go for my masters because I was planning to anyway.

The all hours thing is very true, when I first got into the program they gave me a key to the building and I said "I take it I will be using this alot" and the head of the department told me "only if you want to make it to the second year."

Everything you think you know about architecture, you dont. Trust me, it is best to throw away all those previous thoughts about what it would be like to be an architect because in reality it is much different. It is like enjoying music and being a musician. Composing and crafting a sound is the same as architecture, I have seen many people drop out for this reason.

Studio always comes first, always. I lost a long term girlfriend because of studio and if I had a chance to go back, I would do it all the same again, except I would use my knowledge now to make better designs. haha

Speaking of which, get use to failing, chances are most of what you will make will be considered crap because when you get into it, there is so much to think about to design that you will always be asked questions that you didnt even think about that then poke giant holes in your ideas.

I cant speak too much about the professional end because I am still dealing with the schooling part, but I will say what was told to me. Your first three years after graduation will depict what you do in architecture. Meaning, no one is going to hold your hand. It is a tough profession and it is up to you to decide how far you want to go with it. I know several people that have graduated and are now doing things that are not architecture related...which isnt always a bad thing. Architecture schooling does prepare you to handle just about anything, which puts you further ahead than the people who are business majors.


As for pay, that depends on where you live and the size of the firm. Also to note, always take hourly pay over salary when starting out, a firm will work you over if you are on salary, but hourly you will get paid for all the work you do. When you get further up there with getting your license and such, then it is okay to take on a salary. I know here in Portland, the pay is lower than it is in Seattle or California, but the cost of living is higher, so it is a trade off.

If you are anything like most of the people in here, you want to get into architecture to one day practice good work. The key to that is ethics, I have spent alot of time reading about that and listening to architects that are ethical architects and do produce good architecture. Which also comes to firms, when starting out, pick firms that best fit you, not just any firm that is hiring.


Okay, I could also go on and on about this and could easily start referencing a ton of books, oh that brings me up to my last point. Read, read, read, and dont stop reading. The more you read, the better you will be and I dont mean just architecture things, you will find what makes up space is not architecture but rather the people that occupy it. I could easily have a minor in psychology, sociology, and philosophy with how much I have read over the past four years.

[urbanlife]

okay, so maybe that was more like 25 cents.

[ardecila]

Haha... I love these threads. For some reason, I'm not worried about starting architecture next year... maybe I should be? I'm from Chicago (as it says ^^) but I'll be attending Tulane in New Orleans.

I really don't have any experience to share, but the more I learn about the degree program, the more excited I get. I suppose I don't have to worry about having a bad roommate - I'll probably never see them anyway. :haha:

[amfarx]

Wow awesome replies guys. My community college summer semester starts this coming week...looking forward to it. It's only Math, English, Sociolgy and Math again...have to do some core stuff before transferring anywhere. Which brings me to another topic...

I have a soft spot for Texas A&M, my sister graduated from there last year and every time I visited (which was pretty much every other weekend, she was on the soccer team), I felt very at home and it'd be a college experience I'd really enjoy. Has anyone heard about their architectural program?

I'm all for "living my life, being happy with what I do" over a "living a happy life because I'm wealthy." I'm sure I'll be compensated reasonably well if I put in the time, effort, dedication, etc. I was in a field I didn't really enjoy (sold video communications equipment) but it paid quite well considering my very limited experience. I think of architecture as sort of a 'I'm working, just not' type of career...rewarding when I see my 2D sketch turn into a 3D computer model turn into a 3D physical model turn into a home.

And yeah, my sister's husband is cool. He graduated summa cum laude from The University of Houston as a civil engineer and now works for a top engineering company here in Houston. He can be a bit stubborn when it comes to being flexible; once he gets an idea into his head, there's a very low chance of changing his mind. Other than that, he's cool...has an appreciation for a good beer, which is +++ in my book, lol.

[Zerton]

UT is one of the top ten undergrad for architecture in the US. I choose Illinois institute of technology in chicago because they specialize in tall buildings.

[CGII]

woooo it is going to be a TRIP.

[aic4ever]

This is an interesting discussion. I'm like a lot of you here having loved architecture and all things technical from a young age, except that I started in architecture and changed to engineering with a specialization in construction management, which is what I do now for a general contractor in Chicago. I went to IIT but was a full year ahead of their program just from my HS drafting and art classes, and they would not allow me to test ahead, so I switched because I wasn't going to drop twenty grand for a year of schooling I'd already had. I am happy with my decision and wouldn't change it for the world now that I am in the workforce. Contractors hold all the power in the marketplace these days, as we have assumed the vast majority of the legal responsibilities for completion of construction that architect used to, but no longer care to be professionally responsible for.

One thing to keep in mind when pursuing architecture is that only about 10% to 15% of anyone that is an architect ever becomes a successful design architect. The rest will become specification writers, career draftsmen or model makers (see "Life as a House") or possibly Project Architects, which are more or less project managers.

From an industry standpoint, much of the power that the historically great architects like Mies and Wright wielded is no longer in the hands of architects. Neither, unfortunately, is much of the knowledge of actual construction. Most drawings I see as an estimator relegate important details to simple notes telling the contractor he has to figure it out, when the architect should have spent the time to draw something. I put the vast majority of the blame for this with the AIA for guiding architects away from assuming legal responsibility for their profession, but also toward the colleges, which is information for you. Many "architecture" colleges these days offer nothing but overglorified art class. I met one fresh grad of Ball State about two years ago starting out as a draftsman who had never used a CAD program. It hadn't been required by his program, which I found to be unfathomable.

My recommendation is to compare the actual programs of study at the universities you are interested in, and focus on the ones that drill you as hard as possible in the technical aspects of construction: constructability, structures, etc. This way you will be as useful as possible to the industry when you leave school.

[Zerton]

From an industry standpoint, much of the power that the historically great architects like Mies and Wright wielded is no longer in the hands of architects. Neither, unfortunately, is much of the knowledge of actual construction. Most drawings I see as an estimator relegate important details to simple notes telling the contractor he has to figure it out, when the architect should have spent the time to draw something. I put the vast majority of the blame for this with the AIA for guiding architects away from assuming legal responsibility for their profession, but also toward the colleges, which is information for you. Many "architecture" colleges these days offer nothing but overglorified art class. I met one fresh grad of Ball State about two years ago starting out as a draftsman who had never used a CAD program. It hadn't been required by his program, which I found to be unfathomable.

My recommendation is to compare the actual programs of study at the universities you are interested in, and focus on the ones that drill you as hard as possible in the technical aspects of construction: constructability, structures, etc. This way you will be as useful as possible to the industry when you leave school.

Sounds like a perfect architecture school in your opinion is IIT.

[aic4ever]

Sounds like a perfect architecture school in your opinion is IIT.

It would be, yes, actually. I have a great amount of respect for that program, assuming that they do not continue to de-emphasize structures any more than they already have over the past few years. A lot of friends who are now successful in practice with the likes of SOM, Murphy/Jahn, Antunovich, etc. went through the program there. I would have too were it not for the economics of my decision at the time.

I changed my major because the program was not offering what I deemed appropriate to my own experience level at the time, and the school would not allow me to test ahead without paying the full amount of the classes I tested through anyway. It was kind of a "rock and a hard place" decision. I just didn't feel like I could stand to spend a full year of studio sketching cut sections of glasses and teapots, drawing chairs, and learning how to do drafting, all exercises I had done through my course selection in high school art & drafting.

This doesn't mean I don't advocate the school's architecture program, because I do, and highly. Jeanne Gang, David Hovie, John Ronan, among others, have all taught recently, or are still teaching there now, and are making dramatic impacts around the city and the country. There is still a fantastic level of instruction toward attention to detail and constructibility there that is drilled very hard through the first several years that is very good. It is not until students are well grounded in how to build and how to effectively manage and plan space that they are allowed to take more conceptual and artistic studios. In that respect, it is highly recommended.