[twoNeurons]

You can see the location here (http://www.canada.com/vancouversun/news/story.html?id=de31498b-ccdc-4b99-b167-711856819aeb)

This is looking South, New PriceSmart and Rupert Station on the Right, Building with all the parked cars on the left is the current Costco.

Wal-Mart finally finds a home in Vancouver
Retail giant to occupy Costco building off Grandview Hwy.
Bruce Constantineau, Vancouver Sun
Published: Friday, May 09, 2008

Wal-Mart has finally found a home in the City of Vancouver.

The world's largest retailer is expected to announce today that it will open its first Vancouver store within a year on a 2.5-hectare east Vancouver site currently occupied by Costco.

McLean Group president Jason McLean, whose company owns the site at Grandview Highway and Skeena, said the switch to a new retail occupant doesn't require city council approval because it conforms with existing zoning.
Wal-Mart will build a new store off Grandview Hwy.

Costco has operated at the location for more than 15 years, but is leaving to open a new store in nearby Burnaby.

"It's a situation where one large-format retailer is replacing another," McLean said.

Wal-Mart lost a protracted and controversial battle in 2005 to open a new Vancouver store on Southeast Marine Drive when city council rejected the concept.

McLean said Costco will leave the Grandview and Skeena location by July 1 before Wal-Mart retrofits the 106,000-square-foot space for its unveiling by early 2009.

He said Wal-Mart has a long-term lease on the property, and believes they are an "excellent fit" for the area.

"I feel very good about it, and I think the community will respond well," McLean said. "[The company] really wants to be here, and I think Vancouver shoppers want them too."

Wal-Mart representative Kevin Groh said a "huge number" of local customers will be keen to shop in the new store rather than drive long distances to suburban Wal-Mart stores around Metro Vancouver.

"By finding an existing retail building and filling it with a retail operation, we know we have found a good fit," he said in an interview.

He said Wal-Mart stores can range from 75,000 to 215,000 square feet, so the new east Vancouver store will be a mid-sized outlet. B.C.'s first "super-centre" Wal-Mart store -- with a full line of grocery merchandise -- recently opened in Duncan with 175,000 square feet of retail space.

"Opening a modern-format operation in an existing retail building will require some creativity on our part," Groh said. "But there's a lot of excitement about being part of the Vancouver market, and we've demonstrated again our willingness to be creative."

He said Wal-Mart wants to open more Vancouver stores, but the Grandview project remains its focus right now.

"We still own the Southeast Marine site, and we still love it as a retail site and we still plan to develop it," Groh said. "We've made it clear that we would rather be right than fast on Southeast Marine Drive."

Vancouver retail consultant David Gray said the city can almost guarantee there will be a backlash against Wal-Mart's entry into the Vancouver market.

"They tend to be welcomed with open arms in smaller communities, but more affluent urban settings have been a challenge for them," he said. "Vancouver is a very politicized city, and a lot of people will feel a need to protect smaller retailers."

Gray said Costco doesn't have the same broad appeal as Wal-Mart, so the new East Vancouver Wal-Mart store could have a significant impact on local retailers.

"But that's not always a bad thing," he said. "We have this nostalgia for Mom-and-Pop retail, but a lot of it is pretty crappy retail and often it exists because of a lack of a convenient alternative."

Original Article:
http://www.canada.com/vancouversun/news/story.html?id=de31498b-ccdc-4b99-b167-711856819aeb

There are NO mom and Pop Retails outlets in the Area. Or anywhere NEAR the area. Its closest competition will be the new Price Smart foods (if this Wal-Mart sells food) a couple of doors down and the existing Superstore a couple more doors down.

I think it's a pretty good fit for the area, personally.

[officedweller]

Agreed.
The only criticism already mentioned in the other thread is proximity to Rupert Skytrain is a bit far - but after the Canadian Tire project (2820 Bentall, see below) is completed - there will be a road extended mid-block (but at a funny angle). Still Creek will be daylighted as part of the Canadian Tire project.

http://img517.imageshack.us/img517/6417/newpicturexg9.png

Global Air Pic (above the "p" in "www.globalairphotos.com" at the bottom of the pic):
http://www.globalairphotos.com/images/bc/vancouver/2005/vch2005_107.jpg

[flight_from_kamakura]

it's a good fit for the area, but that's an area ripe for change, and in that sense, this is just awful from a planning perspective. the hope would have been that the site would have been rezoned for a lot more density, with residential, removal of surface parking, etc. argh, i also find it particularly annoying that walmart still plans to open the marine drive shop.

and really, i was reading that other thread about this, just shaking my head at how some folks seem to think this shop is alright. listen up, people who defend walmart: this place truly sucks. it's a car-centric, small business-destroying (people will actually leave their hoods to go shop there), space-wasting, canadian industrial base-eroding, low wage-providing, union-busting, quality-challenged temple to late-stage low-end massifying yankee capitalism.

it's the anti-cultural mecca. and i think it's a damned shame that there isn't something we could do to prevent this thing from opening up.

[jlousa]

Your issue isn't with Wal-mart, your issue with society. Hate people for wanting low prices and driving their cars everywhere. I don't hate a business for taking advantage of these people. I applaud them.

[someone123]

I personally don't shop at Wal-Mart but the overall situation is complicated and not much can be done about it. Individuals decide to shop there and for those with low incomes it's hard to see how they should be expected to make large sacrifices to avoid shopping there.

The City of Vancouver should have a moratorium on big box construction. That Costco location may have been appropriate in the early 90s but it's not today. If a new Wal-Mart is built it will be there for a while.

[officedweller]

Remember that the Grandview lands are part of Vancouver's last remamining industrial lands - Residential should not be allowed to be built there. The area to the west is being redeveloped with hi-tech/industrial office space - that's what should eventually come - but not residential.
There's nothing wrong with an "ugly old warehouse building" remaining on a site for 100 years.

WRT Wal-Mart's products, etc. - they have many of the same national brand products (cleaning items, groceries, drug store items) that other stores have. In some cases, at lower prices, in others, at about the same price.
I bought a jar of Robertson marmalade at Wal-Mart (Marine Drive, North Vancouver) for $1.99 and the same jar was priced at $3.99 at Save-on-Foods down the road, and Wal-Mart has those small cans of Cloverleaf/Oceans flavoured tuna for about 98 cents regular price (I think they are about $1.69 at Save-on-Foods). Other stuff like milk and eggs - sourced locally - they are the same as any other store.

[Architype]

Mid-sized Walmarts aren't all that impressive, but overall I think it's an optimum location for it.

Also, it's great that I won't have to go all the way to North Van to return all those defective crappy items.

[flight_from_kamakura]

Your issue isn't with Wal-mart, your issue with society. Hate people for wanting low prices and driving their cars everywhere. I don't hate a business for taking advantage of these people. I applaud them.

hmmm... off topic, here's a personal account: in my little hometown (well, one of them), there was a fairly vicious fight against this plan for two walmart superstores to go in at either end of town. basically, it was small business owners and community types against walmart (which donated to every single one of our small town councilors in the 3 previous years, if you can believe it). one councilor voted against the walmart proposal, and the two shops were approved. fast forward ten years. seriously, during the council sessions there were doom and gloom scenarios about the effects on small business and so forth, but in the worst case scenarios, no one imagined it would have been so bad as it actually is. small business, the hallmark of most american downtowns (most towns down there are small towns, don't forget), was utterly devastated, an entire old school supermarket, "buy for less", was thrown out of business. now i'll grant that american walmarts are a different breed - they do everything from banking to oil changes to groceries to furniture. and i'll grant that small business in vancouver is likely to prove more resilient for a variety of reasons. but yeah, the fact is that this company's business model is the problem. it's predatory and it devastates communities and it's dangerous to everything from our national economic diversity to our food security to human dignity in general. in short, if the choice is between slightly lower prices and community vitality, imo, it's not much of a choice.

as for the fact that people actually want to shop there, well that's hardly an argument. in the 21st century, the city's task is to balance livability and economic opportunity. we threw the cities to the hounds in the 1950s-1980s and i think we all recognize that the results were mostly negative. as it is, the planning principles that have made vancouver what it is arose in direct reaction to this capital-makes-right sort of reasoning that so long dominated city governments and planning circles. it's a fundamental task of responsible governance to assess and act on precisely the sorts of threats to community vitality that walmart presents (or even incarnates).

[officedweller]

Remember that the City cannot discriminate against businesses for who they are.

Next thing you know, it would prohibit The Bay because it too is American-owned.

[jlousa]

I don't think anyone will argue that Wal-mart doesn't hurts small businesses, (except maybe Wal-mart) but the issue is, Wal-mart did not close those small stores down, people stopped going to them that is why they closed. People will chase the lowest cost, wal-mart is only catering to societies selfish/cheap needs. The only way for a small business can compete is by offering a better product and/or better service at a acceptable price. If they can do that they will survive here or in small-town usa, if they don't then they'll fail.

It all comes back to people though, if you can change society to care about and appreciate service over price then this wouldn't be an issue.

Anyways back on topic, good location, even better demographically then the Marine drive store. Will hurt the Lougheed and Queensborough store slightly but will reduce kms travelled by East Van bargain seekers.

[deasine]

Global News also reported on this in the morning. I'm a little confuzled here though: are they planning to take apart the building and build the new one or do a major renovation on the current one. For sure it doesn't really look like a walmart at the moment.

Oh Leftcoaster, where is the coscto moving to? I can't see it move down to Marine Drive for sure or else that will close the Richmond store... it wouldn't be too far north or that will close the downtown one. Oh =S

[jlousa]

Costco has a new location in the still creek area across from the Radisson in Bby ( the thing is huge),it's probably under 2km from this location, the East Van as well as the Galardi location will be closing. The other locations are staying.

[mr.x]

Until Walmart actually announces plans to develop on the Costco site, this should be in the retail section.

[Architype]

Wal-mart won't do that much damage to small businesses in a large city like vancouver, but they do a lot of damage (monopolization) in smaller cities.

One thing I noticed about this site, if I'm reading it right, is that there doesn't seem to be enough parking for a large store. Is this based on the assuumption that more people will be using transit? Most Wal-Marts are big boxes surrounded by an expansive sea of parking lots.

[SpongeG]

Costco has a new location in the still creek area across from the Radisson in Bby ( the thing is huge),it's probably under 2km from this location, the East Van as well as the Galardi location will be closing. The other locations are staying.

its the Largest Costco in BC! (its just off willingdon and hwy #1)

as for the old location - they need to add parking - the parking lot is pretty small for a walmart - that costco was pretty crappy and in the times i was there the parking was pretty empty as was the store compared to other ones... so lack of parking never really affected them

as for walmart it is known that they will make exclusive deals with suppliers that local mom and pops just can't and thats a big reason why they shut down - their suppliers just won't supply them with certain items anymore, home depot does the same thing - its unfair to small retailers but thats the way the business world works these days unfortunately

[officedweller]

Capilano Mall Wal-Mart doesn't have much parking either and does OK

[quobobo]

:D Maybe they'll actually charge for parking?




(okay, okay... it's nice to dream)

[Architype]

Capilano Mall Wal-Mart doesn't have much parking either and does OK
Capilano does have inside parking too though, it's pretty tight.

[twoNeurons]

Costco is a warehouse too... I wonder if they'll make the Wal-mart double level?

[vanlaw]

Costco is a warehouse too... I wonder if they'll make the Wal-mart double level?

I doubt it - the current building is about same height as most of their new construction buildings.

[twoNeurons]

Yeah... I guess when you start adding the dropped ceiling etc. it starts to look more like regular store height level.

I'm a bit surprised they don't make it a Sam's Club. (Wal-mart's Costco)

[LeftCoaster]

^ This will be a single level wal-mart. There will be a mezzanine but it will just be for office space.

Mid-sized Walmarts aren't all that impressive, but overall I think it's an optimum location for it.

Also, it's great that I won't have to go all the way to North Van to return all those defective crappy items.

This is no midsized walmart, it is going to be over 120000 square feet making it one of the largest if not the largest in the region.

[vanlaw]

^^^

How big is the new Supercentre in South Surry?

[NewfBC]

^^^

How big is the new Supercentre in South Surry?

~250k Sq Ft. The new Walmart Supercentre in Duncan that opened recently is ~170k Sq Ft. The average size of a Walmart Supercentre is 197k Sq Ft.

Ron.

[crazyjoeda]

^^^

How big is the new Supercentre in South Surry?

The monstrosity in South Surrey will be the biggest Wal-Mart in Canada. They seem desperate for people and I wonder where they will find employees, because South Surrey doesn't have very many people who would be willing to work at a Wal-Mart. I also doubt people from other areas would be willing to commute almost to the boarder to work for just $9hr. I hope it goes out of business, but obviously that is extremely unlikely.

[hollywoodnorth]

The monstrosity in South Surrey will be the biggest Wal-Mart in Canada. They seem desperate for people and I wonder where they will find employees, because South Surrey doesn't have very many people who would be willing to work at a Wal-Mart. I also doubt people from other areas would be willing to commute almost to the boarder to work for just $9hr. I hope it goes out of business, but obviously that is extremely unlikely.



http://www.globalairphotos.com/images/bc/surrey/2007/syh2007_097.jpg


where will the big beast be going in regards to this picture?

[Phil McAvity]

flight from kamakura, you obviously don't understand anything about society or human nature. Learn some things and then feel free to post here.

Crazyjoeda, why would you want that Wal-Mart (or any business for that matter) to go under?

Wal-mart won't do that much damage to small businesses in a large city like vancouver, but they do a lot of damage (monopolization) in smaller cities.

I would argue that Waldo-Mart doesn't hurt anyone. If the local mom and pop stores can't compete due to Wal-Mart's huge buying power then mom and pop can either; A-Retire, B-Do what Sam Walton did and start their own company, or C-Close up shop and go to work for Wal-Mart because if you can't beat'em, join'em!

Regardless, for a city of over 600,000 people to just be getting a Waldo-Mart now tells me that Vancouverites are truly :koko: but then I kind of already figured that by the fact the city has never allowed freeways either in or near downtown.

[SpongeG]

The monstrosity in South Surrey will be the biggest Wal-Mart in Canada. They seem desperate for people and I wonder where they will find employees, because South Surrey doesn't have very many people who would be willing to work at a Wal-Mart. I also doubt people from other areas would be willing to commute almost to the boarder to work for just $9hr. I hope it goes out of business, but obviously that is extremely unlikely.


i overheard a woman at the grocery store the other day - she was elderly - her sister who i assume was also elderly was hired as a wal-mart greeter for $11 an hour!

i agree though - its also extremely hard to get to - it took a long time to find when me and my friend went looking for it - don't recall seeing any transit

[Architype]

This is no midsized walmart, it is going to be over 120000 square feet making it one of the largest if not the largest in the region.

From Wikipedia - "Wal-Mart Discount Stores are discount department stores with size varying from 51,000 square feet (4,738.1 m²) to 224,000 square feet (20,810.3 m²), with an average store covering about 102,000 square feet (9,476.1 m²)" - so it is kind of mid-sized, but still larger than average.

I didn't remember the Costco as that big, but 120,000 sq ft is pretty much the standard size of what I had seen personally, mostly back east. How big is the one in North Van?

[Greco Roman]

I'm so sorry to hear of this unfortunate news. My regards to all Vancouverites :(

[SpongeG]

From Wikipedia - "Wal-Mart Discount Stores are discount department stores with size varying from 51,000 square feet (4,738.1 m²) to 224,000 square feet (20,810.3 m²), with an average store covering about 102,000 square feet (9,476.1 m²)" - so it is kind of mid-sized, but still larger than average.

I didn't remember the Costco as that big, but 120,000 sq ft is pretty much the standard size of what I had seen personally, mostly back east. How big is the one in North Van?

the east van costco is one of the smallest ones i have been in and mosty people i know don't like it and list it as their least favourite Costco

what in north van? the walmart? its pretty small - its inside the mall

[Architype]

the east van costco is one of the smallest ones i have been in and mosty people i know don't like it and list it as their least favourite Costco

what in north van? the walmart? its pretty small - its inside the mall
I was at the Costco a couple times, and wasn't impressed; I don't have much recollection of it being a big store like Wal-mart. Wal-mart can be ok for some things, if you don't mind the political/economic/societal issues connected with it. After all, people need jobs, and many most can't afford boutique store prices, especially on Wal-mart saleries.

^The one going in South Surrey is turning what used to be a nice rural area into a big box hell development. I've seen this happen back east - they eventually abandoned all their suburban mall-located stores, and actually carve new ones out of the forests. No one can reach these locations by normal human propulsion (i.e. walking).

[jlousa]

If anyone is old enough to remember, that location was a Price Club (a competitor of Costco at the time) which were smaller then Costco stores. Costco bought out Price Club and converted the stores over to Costco later on.

[LeftCoaster]

flight from kamakura, you obviously don't understand anything about society or human nature. Learn some things and then feel free to post here.

Crazyjoeda, why would you want that Wal-Mart (or any business for that matter) to go under?


Why all the hostility man? Can't we keep things civil here?
Flight of Kamakura was just pointing out a rather interesting issue with regards to employment for walmart, and frankly many leading scholars agree with Crazyjoeda that Wal-marts are inherently bad for society.... This topic has been beat to death though, by many economists who are far smarter than most everyone on this forum so lets not even go there. We all have our opinoins and lets just leave it at that.

From Wikipedia - "Wal-Mart Discount Stores are discount department stores with size varying from 51,000 square feet (4,738.1 m²) to 224,000 square feet (20,810.3 m²), with an average store covering about 102,000 square feet (9,476.1 m²)" - so it is kind of mid-sized, but still larger than average.

I didn't remember the Costco as that big, but 120,000 sq ft is pretty much the standard size of what I had seen personally, mostly back east. How big is the one in North Van?

Wow I had no idea Wal-Marts were so big... I had only been to the one in North Van. I guess I was mistaken in thinking this one was a large one, either way its still a decent sized retailer for Vancouver.

[MolsonExport]

If anyone is old enough to remember, that location was a Price Club (a competitor of Costco at the time) which were smaller then Costco stores. Costco bought out Price Club and converted the stores over to Costco later on.

I remember; I was a Price Club member back in the early 90's, and I used to visit the Price Club on Grandview Highway back then (as well as Richmond's Costco)

[officedweller]

The wierd thing about the old Woolco Wal-Marts (Capilano and Lougheed) is that Woolco at Lougheed - from what I recall - used to be two storeys (I remember the movator) - and was HUGE! Wal-Mart at Lougheed only uses one of those floors and the other is now a London Drugs (though part of that is probably from the old movie theatres too).

[WarrenC12]

I live close to this area, and I can tell you that the Costco parking lot does get packed (weekends), and the whole area is a little awkward from a traffic point of view. I was looking forward to the new Costco, even though it is a little further away.

Regarding Walmart, I think 2 key things were missing from that report:

1. Will this be as green in design as their proposal on Marine Drive? If the city is bending over now, after making Walmart bend over a few years back, I'll be pissed off.

2. Will Walmart be paying for any traffic adjustments? 12th is bad enough getting on to the #1 during most of the day. Costco impacts this area now, I think Walmart will be worse. Didn't they help fund that interchange in Queensborough? They should bear at least some responsibility for improving the flow.

[jlousa]

If it was a new development the city could impose requirements such as helping pay for improvements to the roadway, but since it's an existing development the city is powerless to try and impose Wal-mart pay for anything. In this regards the city brought it upon themselves. I doubt that Wal-mart will be too willing to provide anything out of kindness after what the city put them through on Marine Dr.

[twoNeurons]

I agree, unless Walmart sees improvements as a way to curry favor with the city for the Marine Drive location.

[officedweller]

Back in 2002 the City improved the intersection with a pedestrain signal (did it?):

http://vancouver.ca/ctyclerk/cclerk/020307/pe4.htm

Interesting excerpt - presumably the rezoning went ahead and was obtained and the landowner contributed to the existing signal and improvements?

FUNDING

This project is intended for construction in early 2002, as part of other street restorative work in this sector. The total cost is estimated at $1,150,000. Cost sharing of $400,000 will be received from TransLink. The balance of $750,000 will be obtained from funds previously approved for this project as part of the 2001 Streets Capital Budget. In addition, a commitment for cost sharing of $200,000 is expected shortly from ICBC. This would reduce the City share of the project costs to $550,000.

Further, it is believed that the Costco retail operation to the north is a significant contributor to the congestion and safety situation. The landowner has been approached for a contribution, but declined. The Costco operation is non-conforming to the existing land use. It was authorized by the Board of Variance on the basis that the landowner apply for rezoning. A rezoning application is currently in process and is probably more than a year away from public hearing.

The urgency of implementing these street improvements is such that the General Manager of Engineering services does not consider it prudent to delay them pending rezoning. It is the General Manager of Engineering Services' intention to seek a contribution from the landowner when the preconditions to rezoning are determined by Council.

EDIT - Found the rezoning from 2006:

http://vancouver.ca/ctyclerk/cclerk/20060613/documents/p1.pdf

Traffic Management: The GBIA policies and guidelines stipulate that a Parking and Traffic
Study should accompany a rezoning application for highway oriented retail. The study
submitted with this application concluded that retail use of the site impacts the intersection
of Grandview Highway and Skeena Street and that mitigation measures should include an
eastbound left-turn lane on Grandview Highway at Skeena Street, as well as an advanced
eastbound left-turn signal. These intersection improvements have already been completed
and the General Manager of Engineering Services recommends that Council require a
contribution of $400,000 to the improvement costs as a condition of rezoning approval (see
Appendix C).

Amended recommendations:

http://vancouver.ca/ctyclerk/cclerk/20060711/documents/ph6summary.pdf

The landowner was required to:

Make arrangements, to the satisfaction of the General Manager of Engineering Services
and the Director of Legal Services, for a payment of $400,000.00 towards the intersection
and street improvements at the Skeena Street/Grandview Highway intersection;

Make arrangements, to the satisfaction of the General Manager of Engineering Services
and the Director of Legal Services, for concrete sidewalk on the east side of Skeena
Street between Grandview Highway and East 11th Avenue where it currently does not
exist and on the south side of East 11th Avenue adjacent to the site;

[WarrenC12]

There is a light there now, not sure who paid for it.

Apparently on the opposite side of the complex, there will be improvements to the on and off ramps to #1 as part of Gateway, which may help. The problem now is that 80% or more of the access is through Grandview and Skeena. If that could be offloaded and easy access was available from all sides that would help.

Sad news about the design and contribution of Walmart as compared to Marine Drive. How exactly did this happen with no fanfare? I'm not a Walmart supporter per-se, but I was pretty pissed off with the rejection of the Marine Drive plan after all of the concessions that were made.

[hollywoodnorth]

I remember; I was a Price Club member back in the early 90's, and I used to visit the Price Club on Grandview Highway back then (as well as Richmond's Costco)

there was just 2 Price Club's in Metro Vancouver right? Richmond and grandview?

[SpongeG]

The wierd thing about the old Woolco Wal-Marts (Capilano and Lougheed) is that Woolco at Lougheed - from what I recall - used to be two storeys (I remember the movator) - and was HUGE! Wal-Mart at Lougheed only uses one of those floors and the other is now a London Drugs (though part of that is probably from the old movie theatres too).

wal-mart in guildford mall was also a woolco and is two levels still untuil it is replaced by a one level super centre wal-mart soon

the one in lougheed was expanded quite a bit a few years ago when it went from being 2 levels to one

they are currently reconfiguring the entire store and its quite crazy to get around in right now but i guess they know what they are doing

[officedweller]

Thanks for the info.

Sad news about the design and contribution of Walmart as compared to Marine Drive.

Same as any other change in tenants for a permitted use. i.e. Woodward's at Oakridge became The Bay and Zellers. Eaton's downtown became Sears. It just happens to be stand alone, so it may seem odd.

[MolsonExport]

there was just 2 Price Club's in Metro Vancouver right? Richmond and grandview?

I am not sure. But at the time (1994), the outlet on Grandview was certainly a Price Club, and the one in Richmond, a Costco. I believe that they had just merged, although the banners were still kept for some time.

[LeftCoaster]

1. Will this be as green in design as their proposal on Marine Drive? If the city is bending over now, after making Walmart bend over a few years back, I'll be pissed off.

2. Will Walmart be paying for any traffic adjustments? 12th is bad enough getting on to the #1 during most of the day. Costco impacts this area now, I think Walmart will be worse. Didn't they help fund that interchange in Queensborough? They should bear at least some responsibility for improving the flow.

This will not be a green design... Wal-mart is just making a few changes to the existing site (rebranding the building, new signage, new electical and mechancial systems and interior outfits). Wal-mart is not obligated, not are they interested in making any major changes to the structure.

Regarding the traffic flow Wal-mart is regrading the existing parking lot so there will forsure be some changes to the traffic flow but I doubt they will be participating in any off site works as they do not have a good relationship with the City of Vancouver.

[twoNeurons]

Which would also be why they kept it quiet until after the sale of the building, no doubt.

[jlousa]

They didn't buy this building, my understanding is they are leasing it.
I beleive they still own the Marine Dr location though but are shopping it around.

[SpongeG]

Wal-Mart Opens in Vancouver

Wal-Mart Canada is set to open its first location in Vancouver, BC. Located in the Grandview Gateway Retail Centre, the new store will replace the existing Costco store.
Following with Wal-Mart’s Supercentre strategy, this new location will include full grocery selection in addition to general merchandise.

"Vancouver is an important market for us, and the Grandview location will help us provide greater convenience to the many local customers who currently travel out of the city to shop with us," said Kevin Groh, Wal-Mart Canada's Director of Corporate Affairs. "We are proud to reuse this existing urban building that still gives us the chance to offer our broad assortment."

"Choosing Wal-Mart Canada as a replacement tenant is consistent with our commitment to maintaining long-term, sustainable operations at the Grandview Gateway location," added Jason McLean, President and COO of the McLean Group of Companies, the real estate and development group handling the project. "While considering potential tenants, we found Wal-Mart to be the best fit for the building, the location, and the city's plan for this area. We think they will make a great addition to the neighbourhood."

http://marketnews.ca/news_detail.asp?nid=3716

[LeftCoaster]

Yeah thats what I was saying before, it will have a full grocery component but I am not sure if it will be branded a supercentre... I can check into it though.

[twoNeurons]

They didn't buy this building, my understanding is they are leasing it.
I beleive they still own the Marine Dr location though but are shopping it around.

Oops... yes that's right. I knew that. Now I'm going to edit my post to erase any possibility that I could ever have been wrong.

[officedweller]

From the Courier:

Wal-Mart touts green moves for new Vancouver location

Naoibh O'Connor, Vancouver Courier
Published: Friday, May 16, 2008

Wal-Mart is coming to Vancouver next year, but will its store be green? That's the question after the big box retailer promised to create one of its most environmentally friendly buildings in 2005, although it failed to gain city approval for that store at 86 Southeast Marine Dr.

Architectural firm Busby, Perkins and Will designed a Wal-Mart that included windmills to provide half the power to heating and cooling systems, dozens of trees, skylights and rooftop water collection for store use.

But the company's new site at the Grandview Gateway Retail Centre reuses an older building occupied by a Costco store, which is moving to Burnaby.

Wal-Mart is considering what green features to introduce during renovations, according to spokesman Kevin Groh. The company's newer buildings have significantly more efficient roofs, so roof work is a possibility. "In our modern stores what we've done is put reflective roofs on and that raises the efficiency through lower energy requirements for heating and air conditioning," Groh said. "To be clear, this isn't a modern store and we're still assessing where the opportunities are."

Heating, ventilation and air conditioning units will be studied, but most environmental initiatives will likely have to do with operations, Groh said, explaining a large part of Wal-Mart's environmental footprint is related to the products sold and how stores are operated. "The most environmentally friendly detail of this store would be the fact we're reusing an existing building. With that comes some challenges, but we're proud to take that step because it's a break from our prototypical store design. So the greatest opportunity for this store will be the more environmental practices we've put into place in our operations."

Last year, the company recorded 25,000 fewer garbage truck visits to its Canadian stores due to waste reduction programs.

Groh rejects criticism the retailer is sneaking into Vancouver without going through a public process by moving into an area zoned for big box-style businesses.

"I look at it totally differently. Some of the feedback we've received in the past has actually suggested we would be a great fit for Grandview," he said. "From that perspective, if you look at the details of our plan, we're joining an existing market of large format retailers in an area of town where we think there are a lot of customers who will appreciate what Wal-Mart has to offer and we're doing it in a way that will have minimal impact on the market."

Wal-Mart remains focused on opening an outlet on the Marine Drive site, a proposal council rejected in 2005. The company intends to re-file an application in the future.

The land was bought for $20 million in 2002 and Groh said there is no plan to sell it. "We assume it's increased in value but really the value to us is in the fact it's a great site for retail. Our plan is to develop it," he said.

Council granted Canadian Tire approval to open a store on nearby property in 2007, which Groh said opens the door for other retail development. He suspects Wal-Mart would have had a greater chance of approval in 2005, if one of its stores had already existed in the city and "we'd been able to point to the good things that store had done."

Costco will leave the Grandview location May 21 to move to 4500 Still Creek Dr. in Burnaby.

© Vancouver Courier 2008

[twoNeurons]

Interesting article, thanks. I agree that Wal-mart has really scored a win with this one. With one store in the City, it will be a lot easier for them to get the Marine Drive one completed.

I'm not a huge fan of Wal-mart, but this battle of Wal-mart vs. City of Vancouver is fascinating.

[David]

Just went to BC's first supercentre in Duncan today and it was nuts. It's basically like 4 big box stores in one.

And I remember when the Lougheed Wal-Mart was 2 storeys. The lower level was tiny. It was about a third the size of the upper level and was only accessable by a staircase within the store, but I think there was a long movator in the mall itself. They expanded the upper level and the lower level merged with the former movie theatre space to become London Drugs and Sport Chek.

[MistyMountainHop]

Big box is still big box, and unless this is part of an actual mixed-use development, It won't be a benefit to the city. Even then, it'd still be a WAL-MART. Not what I want in Vancouver.

[Phil McAvity]

I'm so sorry to hear of this unfortunate news. My regards to all Vancouverites :(

Yeah God forbid Vancouverites should be given another retail option. That would be awful. :koko:

[MistyMountainHop]

Yeah God forbid Vancouverites should be given another retail option. That would be awful. :koko:

I mean, it's not like small businesses really matter, right? :rolleyes:

[SpongeG]

what small businesses are going to be abandoned?

are people gonna stop shopping at club monaco cause walmart fashion is so much more label worthy?

or is getting ripped off at the corner store better cause at least your supporting small business??

[quobobo]

what small businesses are going to be abandoned?

are people gonna stop shopping at club monaco cause walmart fashion is so much more label worthy?

or is getting ripped off at the corner store better cause at least your supporting small business??

DING! If you're a small business competing against Wal-Mart on price alone, you've probably made some bad business decisions.

Molson/Budweiser/whoever can make cheap beer, but there's still a market for microbreweries. McDonalds can make extremely cheap hamburgers, but Vera's still stays in business. The point is, there's plenty of ways for small businesses to flourish even with competition from big business.

[Phil McAvity]

Good points Quebobo and SpongeG. People like Marmorek never seem to articulate their arguments very well because they don't really have one. Their arguments seem to rely on little more than snide comments. Anti-Wal-Mart crusaders can't seem to fathom small, medium and big businesses co-existing peacefully (even though it's been going on for decades!). Marmorek and others like him seem to think that the consumer is best served by being deprived of options for some reason. Having said that, I expect Wal-Mart does hurt the bottom line of smaller businesses, but in one of my previous posts, I even outlined exactly what Mom and Pop can do if they do go out of business due to Wal-Mart's huge buying power. They still have options. Marmorek seems to think there is something noble or nostalgic about paying higher prices to small local businesses and thus supporting the local economy. What he doesn't seem to understand is that Wal-Mart only hires locally so by shopping at Wal-Mart he is still supporting the local economy. Not only that, but Wal-Mart is involved in many charitable organizations. Can Mom and Pop say the same thing?

I'm such an apologist for Waldo-Mart, I should get a job with them. :D

[MistyMountainHop]

Good points Quebobo and SpongeG. People like Marmorek never seem to articulate their arguments very well because they don't really have one. Their arguments seem to rely on little more than snide comments. Anti-Wal-Mart crusaders can't seem to fathom small, medium and big businesses co-existing peacefully (even though it's been going on for decades!). Marmorek and others like him seem to think that the consumer is best served by being deprived of options for some reason. Having said that, I expect Wal-Mart does hurt the bottom line of smaller businesses, but in one of my previous posts, I even outlined exactly what Mom and Pop can do if they do go out of business due to Wal-Mart's huge buying power. They still have options. Marmorek seems to think there is something noble or nostalgic about paying higher prices to small local businesses and thus supporting the local economy. What he doesn't seem to understand is that Wal-Mart only hires locally so by shopping at Wal-Mart he is still supporting the local economy. Not only that, but Wal-Mart is involved in many charitable organizations. Can Mom and Pop say the same thing?

I'm such an apologist for Waldo-Mart, I should get a job with them. :D

With arguments like that, you probably already do. :haha:

I just thought that people on a site like Skyscraperpage would be opposed to suburban-style big box development. It's a step backward in urban design for our city, and will not provide any real benefits. As for small businesses, I totally recognize larger businesses' right to operate, I just object to big-box retail for its effect on neighbourhoods. We need higher density and street-oriented retail, not generic suburban development.

[worldwide]

the real question is if this land is in the industrial land reserve, and if it is, why is it being used for retail?

[SpongeG]

i agree about big boxes - they are ugly - but this is a pre-existing building amidst big boxes - superstore took over some old industrial building and converted it to their retail needs

a lot of former industrial type buildings along that stretch are now becoming or have been retail for years

i think its johnson controls or a business like that - its old building is becoming john valk bmw/ducatti - motorcycle dealership...

i imagine industry isn't interested in the area so retail is stepping in and the city would rather have something in there than nothing??

[flight_from_kamakura]

what's the story on this project these days i wonder? i couldn't imagine that a vision win would in any way be able to put the kibbosh on this sucker?

[awvan]

I don't think so. This project is moving along. And there are short term plans to do something with the Marine Drive site, although nothing really that exciting.

[SpongeG]

i passed it on tuesday - they are putting up a new entrance structure - looks like they have redone the parking lot - added trees

and looks like new lighting inside

they had a hiring fair for the store in october

[twoNeurons]

The new PriceSmart and Canadian Tire is a very nice compact development. Small Parking lot, two levels, easy transit access.

[flight_from_kamakura]

a real shame.

[Vancity]

They should link transit to big box stores. so that people are encouraged to take transit, instead of driving. Not sure how that would work out, though.

Just an idea.

[quobobo]

a real shame.

What, exactly, and why? It's kind of weird to bring a thread back from the grave with one vague remark.

[agrant]

The new PriceSmart and Canadian Tire is a very nice compact development. Small Parking lot, two levels, easy transit access.Don't forget it also has a Petsmart, Starbucks, Boston Pizza, and Mark's Work Warehouse. Seems geard towards drivers. The parking is central to the whole place, and seems plenty. And it is just off the highway. It fits in with the area though, with the Superstore and now Wal-Mart.

[metroXpress]

They should link transit to big box stores. so that people are encouraged to take transit, instead of driving. Not sure how that would work out, though.

Just an idea.

I always thought that that would be great...but if you think about it, it is not practical at all.

Some people only shop once a week and they buy lots of stuff...are they going to carry it with them and ride the transit?


hence the size of the products at Canadian Tire

[metroXpress]

One question: where's Wal-Mart going to open its next store in Metro Vancouver?

SW Marine Dr?
Richmond- Sexmith/Garden City?

[Distill3d]

Don't forget it also has a Petsmart, Starbucks, Boston Pizza, and Mark's Work Warehouse. Seems geard towards drivers. The parking is central to the whole place, and seems plenty. And it is just off the highway. It fits in with the area though, with the Superstore and now Wal-Mart.

I like the way that's set up. Its a rather smart design. I've always thought that Calgary and Edmonton should incorporate this idea into their retail developments. Box store parking lots are such a huge waste of otherwise usable land.

One question: where's Wal-Mart going to open its next store in Metro Vancouver?

SW Marine Dr?
Richmond- Sexmith/Garden City?

I'd vote Marine Way somewhere near Byrne Road in Burnaby. I just have a hunch about that area being a perfect location for a Wal Mart. Then I would think Port Coquitlam, by the Home Depot there before the bridge to Pitt Meadows.

[officedweller]

Byrne Road is pretty close to the Wal-Mart at Queensborough.

[SpongeG]

walmart is getting built right now in Pitt Meadows - well the land is being cleared - but Pitt Meadows will be getting the next Walmart

I don't think the one in Poco will happen now with the one in PM going in

anyway the one in vancouver is not too far from the station - i know my friend has walked to it and says its fine to get to - most people only carry off with one bag really - you don't have to do all the shopping once a week - I know i'd rather go every couple days and get what i need instead of once a week or whatever

the price smart when I have been is really dead - they just don't seem to compete well with the other two

and I wonder what will take over Petcetera - pretty big space good location

and the staples is open now

[Distill3d]

Byrne Road is pretty close to the Wal-Mart at Queensborough.

I suppose your right. I didn't think of that Wal Mart as being so close.

[DKaz]

Speaking of Byrne Road, I don't get Derek Corrigan with his art holier than thou attitude, claiming transit and density should be priority and then turning around and allowing the automobile friendly Big Bend area to get built out like that.

[djmk]

Speaking of Byrne Road, I don't get Derek Corrigan with his art holier than thou attitude, claiming transit and density should be priority and then turning around and allowing the automobile friendly Big Bend area to get built out like that.

totally agree. what he has allowed to be built there is shameful and down right ugly

[awvan]

Wal-Mart has tried to find a site down by Byrne road but wasn't able to assemble enough land to build what'd they'd like. The Queensborough store wasn't/isn't an issue. The PoCo site they were working with seems to have stalled recently, don't what the latest is with that one. Richmond will take a while. They (Richmond) have put the stops BIG time on that type of development recently. I didn't know Pitt Meadows was building already, I've been out of the loop for a couple months now. I'm sure they'll try SW Marine again, and I hope they get it.

[officedweller]

http://www.bcassessment.bc.ca/pdf/publications/industry_roundtables/2007_Retail_Industry_Roundtable_Presentation.pdf

Came across the attached (from 2007) regarding the Wal-Mart at Town & Country in Victoria - in a redeveloped lifestyle centre format - fairly urban format - 2 storey with multi-storey parkade.

http://img406.imageshack.us/img406/6186/41210835.png (http://img406.imageshack.us/i/41210835.png/)

See "Industry Roundtables" here:

http://www.bcassessment.bc.ca/businesses.asp

[punkster1982]

^
That Wal-Mart (at least until the one in Langford was built) was in the top 3 busiest stores in Canada. Virtually all the stores in that mall were torn down and construction is actually taking place around the Wal-Mart haha. It's surrounded by giant deep pits, the biggest I've ever seen in Vic ! Quite an interesting development

[metroXpress]

5-level parking? wow!!

[metroXpress]

On top of my head....we have these Walmarts so far

Walmart North Van
Walmart Grandview (Supercentre)
Walmart Burnaby-Lougheed
Walmart Queensborough
Walmart Surrey West
Walmart Surrey South (Supercentre)
Walmart Guildford
Walmart Squamish
Walmart Abbotsford

Am I missing one in metro Vancouver?

[Vancity]

I always thought that that would be great...but if you think about it, it is not practical at all.

Some people only shop once a week and they buy lots of stuff...are they going to carry it with them and ride the transit?


hence the size of the products at Canadian Tire

Well, I was thinking along the lines of maybe building these big box stores like the way they're doing it along the Broadway and Cambie corridor. Having mix use buildings. Big box store on the lower level, and build on apartments, and condos on top. That way, you limit people from having to use their vehicles to drive to places - that's what we encourage, yeah? for people to leave behind their cars, and have the resources, and availability to go downstairs, and shop. how much more convenient can you get than that?

[Distill3d]

http://img406.imageshack.us/img406/6186/41210835.png (http://img406.imageshack.us/i/41210835.png/)

Just throwing it out there, but Wal Mart and Main Street don't really seem to work well together.

[Vancity]

One question: where's Wal-Mart going to open its next store in Metro Vancouver?

SW Marine Dr?
Richmond- Sexmith/Garden City?

I could see it more going to SW Marine Dr area, but I wouldn't mind it going to Richmond, either, if they could somehow incorporate residential use into their Wal-Mart. No to urban sprawl!!

[Vancity]

Just throwing it out there, but Wal Mart and Main Street don't really seem to work well together.

I don't think this is talking about Main Street in Vancouver, it's in Vancouver Island. I've never been to Main street in Vancouver Island, so I can't say if it works well together or not.

but I agree, Vancouver's main street and wal-mart don't mix.

[Distill3d]

I don't think this is talking about Main Street in Vancouver, it's in Vancouver Island. I've never been to Main street in Vancouver Island, so I can't say if it works well together or not.

but I agree, Vancouver's main street and wal-mart don't mix.

I'm thinking it means "Main Street" as general term. Kinda like in small town with Ma and Pa shoppes on the main road. Not Main Street as in Hastings and Main.

[WarrenC12]

I could see it more going to SW Marine Dr area, but I wouldn't mind it going to Richmond, either, if they could somehow incorporate residential use into their Wal-Mart. No to urban sprawl!!

As I understand it, Walmart is still holding on to that land on SW Marine (like 5 years and counting). Their plan is to re-apply there once the COV calms down and realizes the Walmart on Grandview is not the first sign of the apocalypse.

[flight_from_kamakura]

What, exactly, and why? It's kind of weird to bring a thread back from the grave with one vague remark.

bad urban form, bad corporate policies, blight-heavy, low quality nearly 100% imported goods, in what way is it good? it's not even very cheap. personally, i find it depressing that this sort of development is allowed to happen at all, let alone in urban areas.

[Canadian Mind]

I don't think this is talking about Main Street in Vancouver, it's in Vancouver Island. I've never been to Main street in Vancouver Island, so I can't say if it works well together or not.

but I agree, Vancouver's main street and wal-mart don't mix.

There are alot of mainstreets on Vancouver Island.

[quobobo]

bad urban form, bad corporate policies, blight-heavy, low quality nearly 100% imported goods, in what way is it good? it's not even very cheap. personally, i find it depressing that this sort of development is allowed to happen at all, let alone in urban areas.

They're hugely progressive when you consider how much they've driven down grocery prices (www.americanprogress.org/kf/walmart_progressive.pdf) (written by one of Obama's economic advisors in case you were wondering about the political leanings of the writer)

[Architype]

On top of my head....we have these Walmarts so far

Walmart North Van
Walmart Grandview (Supercentre)
Walmart Burnaby-Lougheed
Walmart Queensborough
Walmart Surrey West
Walmart Surrey South (Supercentre)
Walmart Guildford
Walmart Squamish
Walmart Abbotsford

Am I missing one in metro Vancouver?

^ I didn't think there were so many. That seems like a lot of Wal-Marts, but it's actually quite low per capita, perhaps only about one per 250,000 people. Many cities have about one per 50,000 population, or even less.

I avoided Wal-Mart almost completely until the one in Vancouver opened, and only then realized that some select items are less than half the cost of other competitors. I would much rather support local business however, as much as possible.

[vid]

You mean your Wal-Marts are cheaper than other stores???

[flight_from_kamakura]

They're hugely progressive when you consider how much they've driven down grocery prices (www.americanprogress.org/kf/walmart_progressive.pdf) (written by one of Obama's economic advisors in case you were wondering about the political leanings of the writer)

man, i wish i'd got out tonight. hm.

1. i know it's sort of annoying to people when we get into these sorts of discussions, so i'll try to keep it brief.

2. though i don't doubt that if this guy's advising obama, he's a better economist than i am, i'll note first, that the article is pretty old; second, that it smacks of the deliberate counter-intuitiveness that one so often encounters in the academic field, particularly among young leftish folks who've just come out of college with economics degrees (special breed); and third, that i'd have to see a lot more data before i'd accept even the most basic contention here, that walmart brings down prices. without making a boring and probably nitpickable analysis (which i don't even have the energy for), the biggest flaw with the tables here is obviously that the model's distribution of food prices conflates regional price/wage variations and then moves from there to make claims about walmart's effect on aggregate average wage/prices absent regional data. double bad. so yeah, this paper (which is inexpertly piggy-backing in a counter-intuitive way a very substantial literature on monopolies) isn't very rigorous, it feels like the sort of thing you toss at a prof in undergrad seminar. but then, he's apparently advising obama, so i guess there may be something to his analyses (job application? just the right sort of counter-intuitive analyses that we need? finally putting the screws to all this anti-walmart nonsense?).

3. a broad secondary issue: i wonder what here falls into the loss leading category.

4. all of this aside, the main point on the anti-walmart is that this shop leads the charge of the anti-worker, anti-urban, pro-blight acceleration of canadian (and american) de-industrialization with the superficial upside, the sort you can cut out of coupon books and write papers on years after the fact, the homogenizing corporate vampirism whose only positive function is to put into relief the fundamental mendacity of mindless rent-seeking. "shopping" at this place is literally to perform the leaving-behind of a whole other way of consumption, with minimal real economies.

5. finally, having said all that, it seems to me that the entire walmart debate has mostly been settled. we all pretty much know what walmart represents, it's not particularly controversial anymore. i think it's a shame that vancouver has allowed this sort of development, but i recognize that most folks don't agree with me; i would never shop there, but other folks will. that concession made, i'll say this: there's a real debate about what a 3000+ outlet super chain can do to an economy, a debate that for me is pretty macro (even cultural), but absent some absurd and perverse term definition, i don't think there's any way whatsoever that one can say that walmart marks anything even remotely 'progressive'.

[Vancity]

I'm thinking it means "Main Street" as general term. Kinda like in small town with Ma and Pa shoppes on the main road. Not Main Street as in Hastings and Main.

Ooops. My mistake, then.

[hollywoodnorth]

On top of my head....we have these Walmarts so far

Walmart North Van
Walmart Grandview (Supercentre)
Walmart Burnaby-Lougheed
Walmart Queensborough
Walmart Surrey West
Walmart Surrey South (Supercentre)
Walmart Guildford
Walmart Squamish
Walmart Abbotsford

Am I missing one in metro Vancouver?

yes there is one in LANGLEY also :)

Edit: Sardis (Chilliwack) has one also!

by my calculations ;) they would probably want to add a location in the already discussed South Vancouver and/or Richmond areas. I would think Downtown Coquitlam/POCO and/or Maple Ridge/Pitt Meadows would be areas they will target next.

oh ya and the rumored WEST Abbotsford location.

[metroXpress]

Well, I was thinking along the lines of maybe building these big box stores like the way they're doing it along the Broadway and Cambie corridor. Having mix use buildings. Big box store on the lower level, and build on apartments, and condos on top. That way, you limit people from having to use their vehicles to drive to places - that's what we encourage, yeah? for people to leave behind their cars, and have the resources, and availability to go downstairs, and shop. how much more convenient can you get than that?

I do like the compact bix box stores they are building along Broadway and Cambie. However we are getting more and more like Asia and Europe~esp. all those mix use buildings that are being built. I hope that these type of developments only get built on main corridors and they rest of the city should still have residental area seperated from commercial/idustrial areas.

[metroXpress]

yes there is one in LANGLEY also :)

Edit: Sardis (Chilliwack) has one also!

by my calculations ;) they would probably want to add a location in the already discussed South Vancouver and/or Richmond areas. I would think Downtown Coquitlam/POCO and/or Maple Ridge/Pitt Meadows would be areas they will target next.

oh ya and the rumored WEST Abbotsford location.


How did I miss those ones :)

I wonder if the next few Walmarts in the region will be supercentres or not?
I guess it all depends on the land the get~