[Dartmouth] Penhorn Mall

[Keith P.]

Link from CBC: http://www.cbc.ca/canada/nova-scotia/story/2008/05/13/penhorn-mall.html

Developers plan transformation for Dartmouth mall
Last Updated: Tuesday, May 13, 2008 | 5:54 PM AT

A commercial real estate company hopes to transform Dartmouth's struggling Penhorn Mall into a viable shopping district.

ECL Developments Ltd., part of the Sobeys empire, plans to turn the centre on Portland Street into a strip mall with several free-standing stores.

Change is the only way for properties built in the 1970s to compete against bigger shopping complexes like Mic Mac Mall and Dartmouth Crossing, said Stephen Cleroux, director of real estate development for ECL.

"The community shopping centre has suffered due to a lot of the big box retailing that's acting as a regional draw," said Cleroux.

Penhorn Mall has been in decline for years, with family-owned businesses and chain stores pulling out one by one. Sears and Sobeys remain anchor stores.

Cleroux said indoor malls are expensive to operate.

"You've got to heat the inside, you've got to light the inside, you've got to secure the inside. So a lot of landlords have gone to the outside type of development, where these expenses are not incurred," he said.

Cleroux said Sears and Sobeys will stay, and new stores will be highly visible from the street.

The redevelopment plan also calls for a mixed residential neighbourhood on the back part of the property, as well as green space and a MetroLink bus station.

Cleroux said the plan is in the early stages.


Glad to finally see something happening here. Sobey's is really going to be well-positioned (perhaps over-positioned) in the area, with new stores on Tacoma, at Penhorn, and Russell Lake. Not included in the article above but mentioned during the broadcast was that Sobey's will take over the former Wal-Mart site, Sears will stay where it is, and the existing central mall will be demolished. The residential development was stated to be 28 acres.

[hfx_chris]

That's what they did to the old mall on Tacoma Drive, after K-Mart and IGA pulled out. It's unfortunate, but if that's what they have to do to stay afloat, and keep a retail aspect in that location, then that's what they've got to do.

At the very least, I'm glad a decision has finally been made public on what's going to happen. The old rumour mills have been working overtime since Wal-Mart pulled out.


I am of course also intrigued to know their plans for the transit terminal.

[Dmajackson]

This has the possibility of becoming a good project. As for Sobeys being over-positioned its not just in that area they own the retail areas. Along with multiple other stores in HRM the Sobeys Family owns Mill Cove here in Bedford, the largest retail area in town. This is just a guess but the new "strip mall" will probably get some Sobeys brand stores like Lawtons. Is Penhorn the mall with the Dartmouth Empire Theatres?

[Spitfire75]

I heard the former Walmart had some problems with the garage area. Something about an oil spill? Anyone know anything about this?

[hfx_chris]

Is Penhorn the mall with the Dartmouth Empire Theatres?
Had, until it moved to Dartmouth Crossing.

[spaustin]

Hadn't heard anything about an oil spill there. My younger brother use to work there in the automotive section and he never mentioned anything like that. The building's big problem apparently is it leaks badly in heavy rain.

[Aya_Akai]

I heard the former Walmart had some problems with the garage area. Something about an oil spill? Anyone know anything about this?

They had underground storage tanks outside the main garage area that had to be excavated and removed. There wasn't any spill that I was aware of, I just know the tanks were removed because they were posing an environmental risk being unused.

Also, that building leaks like a sieve when it rains hard, a friend of mine used to work in the warehouse there before she quit, she said conditions as far as quality of that building were terrible. Leaks, apparently it had bad electrical, the foundation and base slab was crumbling... I think it was a wise idea to move to the new store at DC...

[Dmajackson]

Had, until it moved to Dartmouth Crossing.

I don't know exactly where this is but the Empire Theatres webpage claims there's a theatre on Portland St. It might of moved into another mall down the street though....

[Jonovision]

The empire theatre is down by the superstore. It's not actually on Portland, but thats the one.

This sounds good, but not quite what i was hoping for. I wanted to see a full mixed use neighbourhood. I really don't think this city needs anymore big box stores or strip malls. Why not incoporate the retail (big and small) into other buildings, maybe with office or residential on top.
It's good though that something is finally happenning

[hfx_chris]

I don't know exactly where this is but the Empire Theatres webpage claims there's a theatre on Portland St. It might of moved into another mall down the street though....

That's the other theatre on Portland Street; there were two within a 5 minute drive of each other until the Penhorn moved to DC.

[hfx_chris]

Good article on the development in today's Chronicle Herald:

http://www.thechronicleherald.ca/Business/1055762.html

The article and conceptual drawing tell that the Wal-Mart building will be torn down starting next month!! The new Sobeys looks like it will be smaller than the Wal-Mart, which makes sense as that's a huge building. The Sears looks like it's staying as is, and the entire mall behind the Wal-Mart, with the exception of what looks like a small section behind Sears, will be torn down. A new strip-mall is shown where the parking lot is now adjacent to the highway, and a couple of smaller free-standing stores are shown adjacent to the present bus terminal.

I'm excited! I used to work at that Wal-Mart, so in one sense it will be a shame to see the building gone, but there were so many problems with it (I can vouch for every single problem with the building raised in this discussion) it would have required a huge amount of repairs just to get it to the point where it could be renovated for another store. Looks like we're going to be seeing a demolition next month!

[Jonovision]

Here's the full article with rendering and Taylors two cents worth too.

http://www.thechronicleherald.ca/photos/xlarge/PenhornMallrenderingMay13_RGB_05-14-08.jpg
An artist’s conception of the Penhorn Mall redevelopment in Dartmouth.

New look for old mall
Redevelopment includes new Sobeys grocery, will retain Sears
By CLARE MELLOR Business Reporter
Wed. May 14 - 6:01 AM

Redevelopment plans for the Penhorn Mall site announced Tuesday include building a new strip mall and a brand new Sobeys store, but other details are sketchy.

"There is no enclosed shopping centre at the end of the day," said Steve Cleroux, director of real estate development for ECL Developments Ltd. (ECL), a subsidiary of Empire Co. Ltd., which owns the 40-acre site.

Twenty acres of vacant land at the back of the mall is apparently being considered as a spot for new Halifax Regional Municipality rinks, as well as a mixed residential neighbourhood, trails and green space.

"We just know that is future development and we are open to discussions and recommendations and suggestions. . . . We have had very, very initial discussions with HRM," Mr. Cleroux said Tuesday.

ECL has not decided whether to keep or tear down the existing mall . It depends on whether the space can be utilized, he said.

"It is a matter of finding the right tenant," Mr. Cleroux said.

The first phase of the plan includes building a new Sobeys store where Wal-Mart used to be. Demolition of the former Wal-Mart building will begin next month, Mr. Cleroux said.

A "community retail complex" will be built on the front 20 acres of the site, close to Portland Street, and will include a 56,000-square-foot strip mall (less than half the size of the current mall). There will be several sites for free-standing commercial buildings, he said.

It is expected that Sears will remain where it is.

Eliani Cugini, a spokeswoman for Sears Canada, says the company does not want to say anything about its plans or the redevelopment at this point.

"Until the plans (for the mall) are finalized, we are not going to say anything," she said Tuesday from Toronto.

Mr. Cleroux could not say Tuesday when the redevelopment will begin or how much it is expected to cost. He did not name any new retail tenants for the redevelopment.

For months, Penhorn, which is featured in a YouTube video on "dead malls," has had more empty spots than tenants. The nail in the coffin was the loss of Wal-Mart last year to nearby Dartmouth Crossing.

"You need those national retailers. We’ve done everything to try to attract them but we just haven’t been able to. Given the markets across North America, community shopping centres are the first ones to suffer when big-box retailers come to town Mr. Cleroux said.

The company informed the 28 remaining Penhorn mall tenants of the redevelopment before making a public announcement. It is not known how many current tenants will be part of the new strip mall.

"We know it will take a few months to knock Wal-Mart down and then get the site ready for Sobeys. In the interim period, we will be discussing future plans of the existing tenants, first and foremost, and where their ultimate home is going to be and the schedule. And ultimately, what we build will kind of fall out of those discussions," Mr. Cleroux said

"Unfortunately, it may not be a reality that every single tenant in the shopping centre today has a home in the new development."

Vince Whebby, co-owner of Tattletales Books Ltd. said Tuesday it is "positive" that ECL Developments has finally made an announcement and that the new development will include retail space. There have been many rumours that it would be only a residential development.

However, there are still many unknowns for retailers, such as costs of renting new space in the new development.

"Right now, we have more questions than answers," he said.

Tattletales, which has been in the mall for 13 years, has been more and more reliant on its wholesale business due to diminishing traffic in the mall, he said.

Since Penhorn Mall is a key "transportation hub" for Dartmouth, ECL has started discussions with Metro Transit over how the redevelopment can include a MetroLink bus station. The parking lots have become an informal park-and-ride spot for many commuters.

"This arrangement would need to be formalized within the redevelopment, but ECL has expressed its willingness to do so," ECL said in a news release Tuesday.

There are also discussions with Halifax Regional Municipality about integrating green space and a pedestrian walkway.

"Anything is an improvement over what has been going on for the last couple of years. Let’s put it that way," Mr. Cleroux said.

( cmellor@herald.ca)




New life for an old mall

By ROGER TAYLOR Business Columnist
Wed. May 14 - 6:35 AM



RICKY, the career petty criminal from Trailer Park Boys, once tried to go legit by working for a down-in-the-mouth shopping mall.

Most viewers of the popular cable television show probably didn’t know this, but Penhorn Mall was playing the part of the unnamed shopping centre, which was desperate enough to hire Ricky as, of all things, a security guard.

Well, the truth wasn’t far off from fiction. Penhorn Mall had seen better days even before Dartmouth Crossing came along, but when the once-popular shopping centre lost a major tenant, Wal-Mart, to the new development, it took a major nosedive.

With the emergence of Dartmouth Crossing, most people expected Penhorn owner Empire Co. Ltd. to either find a buyer for the prime piece of Dartmouth real estate or bulldoze the whole complex.

After failing to find a taker for the property as is, Empire has finally decided to redevelop the site by employing a plan of addition by subtraction.

The Empire subsidiary ECL Developments Ltd. announced Tuesday that Penhorn Mall will undergo a "phased transformation" that will change the traditional covered shopping mall into a community retail complex occupying the front eight hectares of land closest to Portland Street.

The former Wal-Mart building will be torn down and replaced by a new Sobeys store, which will match the footprint of the old structure.

Sobeys is also a wholly owned subsidiary of Empire. In addition, a 56,000-square-foot strip mall will be built along with several free-standing pad sites for commercial development.

The redeveloped Penhorn Mall will continue to be home to the only Sears store on the Dartmouth side of Halifax Harbour.

Steve Cleroux, director of real estate development for ECL, told me the project will cost millions to complete but he isn’t ready to reveal the names of potential new tenants just yet.

While the front eight hectares will continue to be a retail development, complemented by a major Metro Transit terminal, the company isn’t saying what it has in mind for future development opportunities and green space on another eight hectares of land behind the retail operations.

It is widely known that the city has been looking at the Penhorn Mall site as a possible location for a couple of new ice rinks. Empire may also decide to develop a residential component or perhaps a hotel on the site.

"This is an exciting project for ECL and for the community surrounding Penhorn Mall," Cleroux said in a news release.

The replacement of the existing Penhorn Mall Sobeys with a new structure comes as a small surprise. Just down the road in the Russell Lake West development, Sobeys is constructing a store as part of a small commercial centre being built by Westwood Developments of Halifax.

Sobeys also has a large store in Westphal Plaza, which is just a stone’s throw from Penhorn.

But Jill Thomas-Myrick, who speaks for Sobeys in Atlantic Canada, told me Tuesday that the company is going to be replacing that store, too.

Construction will start this month on a new Sobeys on the site of the former Tacoma Drive Canadian Tire store. Canadian Tire moved to Dartmouth Crossing last spring.

Although she confirmed the long-rumoured move from Westphal Plaza to Tacoma Drive, Thomas-Myrick would not reveal how large the Tacoma Drive store will be or how much it will cost.

The Nova Scotia Liquor Corp. outlet in the plaza, which is among the best-performing liquor stores in the province, is also making the move to Tacoma Drive as part of the Sobeys redevelopment.

( rtaylor@herald.ca)

[hfx_chris]

Construction will start this month on a new Sobeys on the site of the former Tacoma Drive Canadian Tire store. Canadian Tire moved to Dartmouth Crossing last spring.

Although she confirmed the long-rumoured move from Westphal Plaza to Tacoma Drive, Thomas-Myrick would not reveal how large the Tacoma Drive store will be or how much it will cost.

The Nova Scotia Liquor Corp. outlet in the plaza, which is among the best-performing liquor stores in the province, is also making the move to Tacoma Drive as part of the Sobeys redevelopment.
Good. That Sobeys is difficult to get into, and has a small parking lot. The one on Tacoma Drive is a much better location, but with the departure of both Sobeys and the NSLC, that pretty much puts the nail in the coffin for that mall as well!

[Wishblade]

Finally!

I've been waiting for something to be done with this mall for years, and its actually good to see a mix of retail and residential going on the land.

But with a sobeys at penhorn, a sobeys going into the old canadian tire spot on tacoma, and another sobeys going into russell lake west along with the one in forest hills, is there a market large enough in east dartmouth to support so many of them? This isn't even including the superstores and other grocers in the area...

[Keith P.]

Finally!

I've been waiting for something to be done with this mall for years, and its actually good to see a mix of retail and residential going on the land.

But with a sobeys at penhorn, a sobeys going into the old canadian tire spot on tacoma, and another sobeys going into russell lake west along with the one in forest hills, is there a market large enough in east dartmouth to support so many of them? This isn't even including the superstores and other grocers in the area...

That's the same thing I was wondering about originally, although the traffic patterns in that part of Dartmouth are odd. With no grocery stores serving most of "old Dartmouth" except the truly awful Save Easy on Wyse and the even more awful Sobeys on Primrose, these stores draw from that entire area. That is why the Superstore on Braemar has done so well, as it was the only decent grocery store near that part of the city. The new Sobeys on Tacoma and the new Penhorn store will draw customers from that entire area of old Dartmouth, while I think the Russell Lake store will probably sound the death knell for the old Sobeys on Pleasant Street, which is sort of too bad because that is a nice little store, sort of a throwback to what supermarkets were like back in the 1960s. Given the traffic issues, people from old Dartmouth would not often shop at Forest Hills Sobeys, but more likely would cross the bridge and go to the stores on Windsor St or in West End Mall.

[Aya_Akai]

Hey everyone, just thought I'd give an update on Penhorn's current state. I went today with a printed image of the mall map that I took several days ago, I went through, documented all stores/kiosks that are still open... as well as all that are closed.

List is at the bottom of the picture and everything in red is closed.

http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k173/Patrick_Helliwell/Halifax/pensmall.jpg

The one security guard who is always there (that old guy) came up to me and asked what I was doing (I was there for about an hour walking around with a red sharpie and a clipboard) and I said to him "No offense sir, but does that really matter here anymore?" .. He just walked away after that...:haha:

So, I hope this helps everyone out with whats going on at that "mall". I'll be there for sure when the wrecking crew comes in to take care of the old wal-mart! :tup:

[hfx_chris]

Nice map! Really is a shame to see that much red.

Oh, and did you have to be rude to the security officer? They don't exactly have an easy job sometimes, and it's not like you would have got in trouble if you just told him what you were up to.

[Aya_Akai]

Oh, and did you have to be rude to the security officer? They don't exactly have an easy job sometimes, and it's not like you would have got in trouble if you just told him what you were up to.

I was there a couple of years ago taking photos for this same reason as I was there today, I wasn't rude to them at all and I did tell them what I was doing, I then got treated like crap from all of the security as well as the mall management. I was doing nothing in the wrong and I was treated badly. What I said today wasn't really in a rude fashion, it was jokingly. He just nodded and went back to his booth lol

[Keith P.]

I haven't been there for a couple of years (like most people apparently!) but was amazed to see so much has disappeared, especially from the newer side of the mall. The last time I was there the food court was in full operation and there were stores in most of the slots. It really has declined pretty quickly.

[hfx_chris]

The last time I was there the food court was in full operation
It hasn't been like that in years...

[hfx_chris]

I was there a couple of years ago taking photos for this same reason as I was there today, I wasn't rude to them at all and I did tell them what I was doing, I then got treated like crap from all of the security as well as the mall management. I was doing nothing in the wrong and I was treated badly. What I said today wasn't really in a rude fashion, it was jokingly. He just nodded and went back to his booth lol
Well taking pictures is kind of a different story, I would understand their opposition to you photographing their property. But taking notes on a piece of papers is another thing altogether.

[Keith P.]

It hasn't been like that in years...

I'm thinking it was 3 years ago the last time I was there. I remember going in through the set of entry doors by the food court and noticing the number of young people who were hanging around there both inside and out. There was surely more than a single Chinese food place operating there then.

[hfx_chris]

The last place to close in the foodcourt was the A&W, which closed probably a good 4-5 months ago. Before that it was some place called Dave's Fish House, which closed a year or so ago.
Wasn't there also a TCBY or some sort of ice cream establishment across from the theatre for a while? I know there used to be a place there that sold specialty popcorn, but they didn't last long (and the ice cream place lasted even less).
Oh, and there was a pretzel place in that location too once. That lasted quite a while.

[Aya_Akai]

The last place to close in the foodcourt was the A&W, which closed probably a good 4-5 months ago. Before that it was some place called Dave's Fish House, which closed a year or so ago.
Wasn't there also a TCBY or some sort of ice cream establishment across from the theatre for a while? I know there used to be a place there that sold specialty popcorn, but they didn't last long (and the ice cream place lasted even less).
Oh, and there was a pretzel place in that location too once. That lasted quite a while.

The popcorn place was the last tenant in the slot where Telus is now, and the corner slot has been TCBY (for a very short time), Pretzel Maker for a long time and there was something else that I cant recall before the TCBY.

I remember the first thing that led to the decline of that food court was when Orange Julius left, after they left, the decline started quickly.

[reddog794]

Penhorn was always the dirt mall when I was growing up... well not always. I worked at the Wal-Mart for a bit, and I'm going to miss the flea market. If only they could turn that into a sunnyside, or Village at Bayers Road kinda mall, only more pedestrian friendly. Shoot with the mall going there's more room for a proper Metrotrans, terminal, it is at the cross point of the circ and Portland.

Either way it's too good of land to be a bumblefuck of a retail development. I hope it's something progressive.

[penhornpal]

no spill but they can't get the oil smell out of there,same problem at the tacoma drive canadian tire.sobeys is rebuiling there as well as that mall has to be torn down.they are taking walmart apart as we speak and I have a friend working for the demolition company who said its full of rats !!!good to see a revamp at penhorn,it needed this or to be completely mowed down.maybe sobeys won't be moving into the old canadian tire as they would have to rebuid the building.maybe thats why they are keeping the penhorn store.

[hfx_chris]

As I recall they had a rat problem when I worked there once upon a time, but I could see that it would get worse since it closed...

[Aya_Akai]

One day a week or so ago I had gone up to penhorn to take a new tally of what is closed, there are a couple more places gone. Tim Hortons was closed as of the 4th, and Bangz is gone now too, it seems the really cheap clothing store (smart fashions, I think?) down by the wal-mart end has moved. With Tims being closed at that end of the mall, making that entire end court vacant, that might be signaling that they are probably going to take that end court of the mall out all together and just build a wall where Northern Reflections is at that end.

On a side note, I was peeking in where you are still able to see into the wal mart space (between the glass doors and the wall, and if you just sit and wait and watch, you'll see rats running around in there, also to mention it was raining that day, and there was water coming out of the ceiling at a fairly steady rate onto the floor and into a few buckets and garbage cans that were placed around.

Everything highlighted in blue in this image (to the right of the line) is now closed and I think is what they are probably going to be tearing down, the rogers booth is still there, but that wouldn't be too hard to move.

http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k173/Patrick_Helliwell/Halifax/pensmalldemo.jpg

[hfx_chris]

I had no idea the Tom Hortons had closed. I've never seen a closed Tim Hortons before... that's just such a strange idea

[penhornpal]

tims will reopen...with a drive thru

[Aya_Akai]

tims will reopen...with a drive thru

Oh? Do you know when and whereabouts? Is it going to be a standalone store away from the mall in the (now) parking lot?

[Jonovision]

Drive thru!!!! Why are we still building drive thrus!? They are horrible and just perpetuate laziness and engine idling. Why can't people just park and get out of their cars? sorry, little pet peeve.

[hfx_chris]

A pet peeve I share, but Tims would probably be lambasted if they built a location without a drive-thru. When they re-built the Esso on the #7 Highway out by Forest Hills, they put a Tim Hortons in it - with a drive-thru. The lineup there is outrageous, so despite the negatives people still flock to them even though sitting for 5-10 minutes in a busy drive-thru is often taking up more time than parking and running in.

[penhornpal]

stand alone store..not sure when it will open but it will have a drive thru

[hfx_chris]

They've begun tearing down sections of the Wal-Mart where it's connected to the mall. Unfortunately I only got to see it passing by from the highway, so no pictures.

[Aya_Akai]

They've begun tearing down sections of the Wal-Mart where it's connected to the mall. Unfortunately I only got to see it passing by from the highway, so no pictures.

Will go up tomorrow to get photos!

[Aya_Akai]

Will go up tomorrow to get photos!

Due to an unfortunate exploding washing machine incident and Canada Day happenings, I wasn't able to get to Penhorn to take photos today.

However we drove past real quick and I'd say from what I could tell, about 1/4 of the wal mart is gone already, they are starting to tear it down from the wall connected to the mall towards portland street, the one wall is still connected to the mall and free-standing.

[Wishblade]

A few of the pics I took today at the mall of the demolition of the old Wal Mart:

http://img390.imageshack.us/img390/9215/penhornmalldemo003te3.jpg

http://img95.imageshack.us/img95/4549/penhornmalldemo001gc6.jpg

http://img361.imageshack.us/img361/5586/penhornmalldemo009am8.jpg

http://img95.imageshack.us/img95/4152/penhornmalldemo013pg5.jpg

http://img399.imageshack.us/img399/3529/penhornmalldemo012oi1.jpg

[hfx_chris]

Hmm. I hate watching buildings get demolished :(

Thanks for the pictures though. Ordinarily, I park at Penhorn every day - except this week.

[Jonovision]

Really? To me there is nothing better then seeing a crummy old walmart come down. I almost want to dance!

[Keith P.]

Now all the rats are homeless... ;)

[Dmajackson]

Well nearby stores will get a increase in the number of mouse/rat traps they're selling. ;)

Seriously though sometimes i do feel bad when a building comes down but I really don't care much for WalMart.

[reddog794]

I played tape hockey in those upstairs storage rooms...

[hfx_chris]

I used to hide out in those upstairs storage rooms when I didn't feel like working. I was such an upstanding employee ;)

[hfx_chris]

Just a couple of quick ones I took this morning

http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff314/hfx_chris/forum_images/Walmart1.jpg

http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff314/hfx_chris/forum_images/Walmart2.jpg

http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff314/hfx_chris/forum_images/Walmart3.jpg

[penhornpal]

rats were poisoned before the building came down

[hfx_chris]

I was surprised, I went away for a week expecting by the time I got back the store would be completely demolished, but that wall facing Portland Street is still standing, just as it was 2 weeks ago.

[terrynorthend]

I think that wall is all that is keeping the remaining rats (and tenants) dry. :jester:

[Takeo]

BTW... I would just like to say... good riddance. Not that I'm a fan of what Dartmouth Crossing has wrought... leading to all these abandoned stores and forcing people to drive further out... but Penhorn has been going to seed since the early 90's. It's about time they put a bullet in it's head.

[hfx_chris]

It appears they've begin demolishing the section of the mall which was immediately adjacent to the Wal-Mart.

[hfx_chris]

Now they're pretty much back to where Tim Hortons used to be.

Anybody manage to save, or know where I can find the diagram that was in the Herald many moons ago which showed the layout of the completed proposal?

[Aya_Akai]

Anybody manage to save, or know where I can find the diagram that was in the Herald many moons ago which showed the layout of the completed proposal?

I'm looking for it too, I've gone through archives, other pages and can only still get that tiny crappy thumbnail. ARGH!:hell:

[hfx_chris]

Where did you find the thumbnail? Even that would be better than nothing...

[Aya_Akai]

Here we go, bigger than the thumbnail, still not as big as the original though...

http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k173/Patrick_Helliwell/Halifax/PenhornMallrenderingMay13_RGB_05-14.jpg

[terrynorthend]

Haha, it strikes me that this development has WAY more surface parking than it will ever need...

[Takeo]

Haha, it strikes me that this development has WAY more surface parking than it will ever need...

Ya. The parking lot beside Sears is massive.

[hfx_chris]

Indeed, it never reaches half full from my experience..
Anyway, thanks for posting it!

[Spitfire75]

http://i534.photobucket.com/albums/ee343/Spitfire7500/PenhornMallrendering2.jpg (http://i534.photobucket.com/albums/ee343/Spitfire7500/PenhornMallrendering2.jpg)
I removed some of the parking. Looks much better IMO.

[hfx_chris]

Keep in mind too, they're supposedly keeping a chunk of the mall, the part shown behind the Sears; that's going to need parking as well. They could probably get away with making the parking lot next to Sears smaller, put some green space between the parking lot and the apartment buildings next to it.
Also keep in mind that rendering doesn't show the new bus terminal, which is supposed to be larger than the existing one. No idea how much space that would take up, but I can't see it impacting on the parking lots.

[hfx_chris]

So, the current status. The wall closest to Portland Street is still standing, although slowly - very slowly - is coming down. Everything else is just piles of rubble.
Part of the mall was demolished, as far as the mall doors where the Tim Hortons used to be. My guess is they'll do this in two stages, with stage one being the demo of Wal-Mart and construction of the Sobeys in its place, and stage 2 will be the construction of the new strip mall where ever it's going to be, and the demolition of the rest of the mall, old Sobeys, theatres and Moore's building following the opening of the new mall.

[Aya_Akai]

Not a very big update in the grand scheme of things here...

However, a sign was just put up at penhorn today for a new CIBC it is facing each way of portland and there may be one out towards the circ, not sure.

"Future home of the CIBC" - or something along the lines of that.

The former walmart has been reduced to nothing but a pile of crushed concrete and cinder blocks a few weeks ago. Ground prep for the new Sobeys store has started as well.

The ECL Signs are up and around on the site. It's good to know there is something going on there.

[Dmajackson]

Does anyone know how this is progressing?

I've only been by it on the Circ so all I've seen is some construction equipment and nothing of the actual buildings.

[hfx_chris]

The new Sobeys structure looks to be nearing completion, at least the exterior. That's about it, everything else is the same...

[Keith P.]

Drove in there today to take a look around. It still seems all rather disjointed. The new Sobeys is set further west (I think that's the direction) from where the old Walmart auto center used to be, so that its facade and that of the adjacent small strip mall are set back from that of Sears, whereas the auto center used to project ahead of it. It appears to be a month or more from being ready, though I did see a sign saying they are having a job fair in the old Sobeys this coming week, so who knows. The loading docks for the Sobeys are adjacent to what is now left of the old mall, which begins where the old Walmart ended. God knows what remains in the mall, though there were a surprising number of cars around the old Sobeys and Sears.

[Wishblade]

Drove in there today to take a look around. It still seems all rather disjointed. The new Sobeys is set further west (I think that's the direction) from where the old Walmart auto center used to be, so that its facade and that of the adjacent small strip mall are set back from that of Sears, whereas the auto center used to project ahead of it. It appears to be a month or more from being ready, though I did see a sign saying they are having a job fair in the old Sobeys this coming week, so who knows. The loading docks for the Sobeys are adjacent to what is now left of the old mall, which begins where the old Walmart ended. God knows what remains in the mall, though there were a surprising number of cars around the old Sobeys and Sears.

The only reason there were a larger number of cars than you would expect is because people use that parking lot as an unofficial park and ride for the busses.

[hfx_chris]

Plus that does tend to be a busy Sobeys. As for businesses remaining in the mall, last I was there was a week ago and it's quite dismal. I would say at least 70-80% of the units are empty.

[Dmajackson]

I was just reading an article about Sobeys in Dartmouth and apparently they are closing the Woodside location because of three others within three kms. Including Penhorn which is supposed to re-open at the end of this month.

[Keith P.]

I tried the new Penhorn Sobeys today for the first time. It is very similar (not surprisingly) to their two other new stores in the area on Tacoma and at Russell Lake. Business seemed very brisk. For whatever reason I like the Penhorn store better than the other two, and I like Russel Lake better than Tacoma. Given three basically identical stores, I cannot figure out why I have such preferences. Strange.

[Wishblade]

I tried the new Penhorn Sobeys today for the first time. It is very similar (not surprisingly) to their two other new stores in the area on Tacoma and at Russell Lake. Business seemed very brisk. For whatever reason I like the Penhorn store better than the other two, and I like Russel Lake better than Tacoma. Given three basically identical stores, I cannot figure out why I have such preferences. Strange.

Well, you cant really compare Tacoma to the other two. It's a giant in comparison.

But Russell Lake and Penhorn are very similar.

[hfx_chris]

Russel Lake and Penhorn are similar yes, but I found the new Penhorn store very, very cramped. The produce and bakery have tight and narrow, very little space to move around. Russel Lake seems a little more spacious. However, one feature I love about them both is the center aisle where the deli, hot foods, cheeses etc are. Almost reminds me of a little cafe or something...

Tacoma is a nightmare, I hate that store. The parking lot is a nightmare to maneuver around, and there's always cars everywhere. No thank you. I never shopped at the Westphal location that much, so I can't see myself shopping at Tacoma much either.

[Keith P.]

Well, you cant really compare Tacoma to the other two. It's a giant in comparison.


I've heard others say that as well. But I don't see it. Maybe it is, but if so, they have made very poor use of the space because it doesn't seem any different to me than the others.

I too dislike the Tacoma store. Chris has mentioned some of the reasons. There is just something about it that doesn't work for me. Plus the parking lot is atrocious and every time I've been there the checkout has been a nightmare.

The Russell Lake store is never very busy, has good parking and nice staff. It just seems very dark inside. Penhorn today seemd bright and airy.

[pnightingale]

I'm just glad that Sobeys didn't go the same route as Super Store did a few years back and make all of their stores the size of PEI. I can't stand shopping in a Super Store, I feel like it takes forever to get from one end to the other and I can never find what I'm looking for. I don't have exotic tastes, when I go to the grocery store I'm looking for the basics. I can't understand why a grocery store sells clothes, sporting goods, mortgages, cars, airplanes, college educations, pretty much any thing under the sun. I feel like there should be a conveyor belt like at the airports to shuttle you from one end to the other. All I want is bread and eggs, and I have to walk a kilometre from one to the other. Then you need to set up a tent and camp out over night while you're in line at the checkout.

I guess my point is I like going to a reasonable sized store like Sobeys.

[terrynorthend]

make all of their stores the size of PEI.

I think that is the funniest thing I heard today! Snort! :haha:

[someone123]

I guess my point is I like going to a reasonable sized store like Sobeys.

I guess it depends a bit on the target market, but a lot of people who would buy the discount clothes or whatever just go to Wal-Mart. Most people just want food and household items when they go out for groceries.

The relative lack of junky retail items and better store design makes Sobeys look much better than Loblaws. They seem to be doing well in Ontario partly because of this, plus they sell good prepared meals (a typical store must go through a lot of those chickens!).

[hfx_chris]

I can't understand why a grocery store sells clothes, sporting goods, mortgages...
The smaller Superstores just have a couple of aisles for clothing, you're obviously referring to Joe Howe and Portland. However, I find the stores are roughly cut in half, with all the clothing/housewares/non-food stuff on one side, and the food on the other side. So you just shop on the side of the store that matters to you, and don't bother with the other side... not that big of a deal.

[worldlyhaligonian]

Think about how much you can leverage the retail space, its a one stop shopping concept. The space essentially costs money, so the business model is sell whatever you can at a profit (and in some cases at a loss to pull in business). They are ahead of the curve, Wal-Mart has been in this type of position in several markets. I much prefer Canadian companies like Loblaws and Sobeys to be doing it vs. being left behind.

PC Financial is great, their back-end is CIBC without any of the upfront hassle.

[Keith P.]

Think about how much you can leverage the retail space, its a one stop shopping concept. The space essentially costs money, so the business model is sell whatever you can at a profit (and in some cases at a loss to pull in business). They are ahead of the curve, Wal-Mart has been in this type of position in several markets. I much prefer Canadian companies like Loblaws and Sobeys to be doing it vs. being left behind.

PC Financial is great, their back-end is CIBC without any of the upfront hassle.

That concept may appeal to some people. Personally I really dislike the mega-sized Superstores and think they just don't work. They are compromised from both the food and general merchandise perspective. I know that I shop much less at the two megastores than I did before the changes. They are just too big, parking is too difficult, and the fod side is inferior.

[Aya_Akai]

Update from the Penhorn Front!

Massive work going on up there now...

First off I'd like to share for some what was called "a sad day" ... frankly I had to cheer, when they took the penhorn mall sign down from along the circ.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3642/3531640647_56341d6790_o.jpg

Secondly, they are starting a lot of excavation and prep work for a new segment of the new shopping area, the hole is quite deep, an 8 foot bucket on the end of a loader could be seen popping up from a giant hole behind the big mound of dirt (if you look to the right of the 2 guys you can see the loader arm)...

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3637/3531625689_9f34857aea_b.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2477/3531863171_1687a4a81d_o.png

and this is the area (highlighed in blue- map from earlier on in the thread from ECL) that is being worked on currently

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2078/3531643177_37088c12b5_o.jpg

I also walked up to "the old mall" entrance which is located right behind the new Sobeys and there are signs up saying that section of the mall is now closed, and the only entrance that is in use is the mall entrance right behind sears by the sports field... I will be up there in the next few days to check that out a little more as I didn't really have enough time to stick around up there this afternoon.

(all photographs taken by me, penhorn rendering by ECL)

[Jonovision]

So glad they finally took that sign down! It was soooooooo ugly.

[Wishblade]

Just to add to what HaliStreaks said, I was in the only open part of the mall recently, and they have the entire thing barricaded off except for the immediate area around Sears. Theres I think 6 stores left and thats it.

[Aya_Akai]

Just to add to what HaliStreaks said, I was in the only open part of the mall recently, and they have the entire thing barricaded off except for the immediate area around Sears. Theres I think 6 stores left and thats it.


LOOOOOOOOOL

I think we can now officially call Penhorn in it's original form, dead, gone, kaput, never going to be anything ever again.

yaaaaaay! :whip:

[Keith P.]

Just to add to what HaliStreaks said, I was in the only open part of the mall recently, and they have the entire thing barricaded off except for the immediate area around Sears. Theres I think 6 stores left and thats it.

Once those go (assuming they do) then Sears will be the only relic of what was a very odd mall that developed in a piecemeal fashion over time. A memory of how Penhorn used to be:

Initially the only thing that was there was a Woolco store, in the early 70s, which eventually became part of the Walmart store that was torn down last year. The original Woolco building was smaller than what it ultimately became. Later on, the freestanding building that Moores was in was built, but it was originally a Pop Shoppe. It was around that same time that the original Sobeys at that end was also constructed. That Sobeys was a bit of a departure for them at the time, and had a different design and fixturing from what they usually had done up to that point.

My memory is telling me that the first part of the mall was not yet built at that point, but was filled in to connect an expanded Woolco (which added on a piece in the direction towards the mall side) and the Sobeys not long after. It operated in that manner for some time, and then the Sears was built and the other L-shaped side of the mall to connect it to the original parts was built.

I lived in Halifax at that time but used to go there fairly often. In the early to mid 80s it epitomized the mall experience somehow. I would go on dates to the movies there, go to the pub (what was that place called pre-GTOs?) or even travel to shop there (because on some nights Halifax stores were closed). It had a true 80s vibe in my mind for reasons that I can't explain -- when I think of it I can picture girls with shoulder pads and big hair, guys with mullets and Miami Vice style skinny ties, and music playing by The Cars. The other thing that comes to mind is how busy it was back then -- it was always crowded in my memory. For a while in the mid 80s to early 90s it was a happening spot.

How things change...

[Aya_Akai]

Once those go (assuming they do) then Sears will be the only relic of what was a very odd mall that developed in a piecemeal fashion over time. A memory of how Penhorn used to be:

Initially the only thing that was there was a Woolco store, in the early 70s, which eventually became part of the Walmart store that was torn down last year. The original Woolco building was smaller than what it ultimately became. Later on, the freestanding building that Moores was in was built, but it was originally a Pop Shoppe. It was around that same time that the original Sobeys at that end was also constructed. That Sobeys was a bit of a departure for them at the time, and had a different design and fixturing from what they usually had done up to that point.

My memory is telling me that the first part of the mall was not yet built at that point, but was filled in to connect an expanded Woolco (which added on a piece in the direction towards the mall side) and the Sobeys not long after. It operated in that manner for some time, and then the Sears was built and the other L-shaped side of the mall to connect it to the original parts was built.

I lived in Halifax at that time but used to go there fairly often. In the early to mid 80s it epitomized the mall experience somehow. I would go on dates to the movies there, go to the pub (what was that place called pre-GTOs?) or even travel to shop there (because on some nights Halifax stores were closed). It had a true 80s vibe in my mind for reasons that I can't explain -- when I think of it I can picture girls with shoulder pads and big hair, guys with mullets and Miami Vice style skinny ties, and music playing by The Cars. The other thing that comes to mind is how busy it was back then -- it was always crowded in my memory. For a while in the mid 80s to early 90s it was a happening spot.

How things change...

As much as I hate that mall, that is probably, by far, the best thing I have ever read about it, hands down. Makes Dartmouth for the time sound a little more exciting. Well said, my friend, well said.

[someone123]

I vaguely remember going there in the early 90s and it didn't look bad at all. There was still a theatre and there were lots of stores, there was a full food court, etc. There was also a Sunday flea market at one point.

Similarly Downsview had the K-Mart (down a strange interior hallway), and Bayers Road was actually quite busy. Not quite as nice as Halifax Shopping Centre I guess, but it wasn't run down looking at all. Not sure about that mall in Spryfield.

I guess the 80s were the peak of mall culture.

[Takeo]

Thanks Keith. I was one of those kids. I grew up in Nantucket / Woodlawn in the '80's. I used to hang out there and go on dates there... etc. I walked through it a few months ago just for nostalgic reasons... to see it one last time... and it was very sad to see.

By the way... I have never worn a skinny tie but did sport crazy long hair (one might even say a mullet?) in my metal phase (pre-high school). When I was hanging out at Penhorn though (high school) I was more likely to be seen in tattered jeans with bright red hair... the sides shaved bald... and listening to the Dead Kennedy's or Black Flagg. The 80's wasn't all Cyndi Lauper (although she was... and IS... very cool) and Duran Duran (yikes)... but I get the picture you were trying to paint. LOL :) It was a very happening spot.

That said... the shape of the place was always a major pain... having to walk all the way around to get from Sears to Woolco/Kmart/Whatever.

Once those go (assuming they do) then Sears will be the only relic of what was a very odd mall that developed in a piecemeal fashion over time. A memory of how Penhorn used to be:

Initially the only thing that was there was a Woolco store, in the early 70s, which eventually became part of the Walmart store that was torn down last year. The original Woolco building was smaller than what it ultimately became. Later on, the freestanding building that Moores was in was built, but it was originally a Pop Shoppe. It was around that same time that the original Sobeys at that end was also constructed. That Sobeys was a bit of a departure for them at the time, and had a different design and fixturing from what they usually had done up to that point.

My memory is telling me that the first part of the mall was not yet built at that point, but was filled in to connect an expanded Woolco (which added on a piece in the direction towards the mall side) and the Sobeys not long after. It operated in that manner for some time, and then the Sears was built and the other L-shaped side of the mall to connect it to the original parts was built.

I lived in Halifax at that time but used to go there fairly often. In the early to mid 80s it epitomized the mall experience somehow. I would go on dates to the movies there, go to the pub (what was that place called pre-GTOs?) or even travel to shop there (because on some nights Halifax stores were closed). It had a true 80s vibe in my mind for reasons that I can't explain -- when I think of it I can picture girls with shoulder pads and big hair, guys with mullets and Miami Vice style skinny ties, and music playing by The Cars. The other thing that comes to mind is how busy it was back then -- it was always crowded in my memory. For a while in the mid 80s to early 90s it was a happening spot.

How things change...

[Takeo]

I guess the 80s were the peak of mall culture.

True. Back then there was no such thing as a 'box store'. As a kid growing up in the teenage wasteland of suburbia... you still had to get in your dad's car to go anywhere... but it was usually just a kilometer or two to the local mall or whatever. You didn't have to drive clear across town. And Bayers Lake was mostly wilderness.

[hfx_chris]

I had to laugh when they tore the sign down, the pigeons kept wandering around the ground where it was with nowhere to go, like lost souls :)

Penhorn was still very much a happening place up until 5-6 years ago. The Sunday fleamarket was still going, the food court was still mostly full, few vacancies. Then once it started to decline, it declined fast, and when Wal-Mart left - that was pretty much it.
I used to work at that Wal-Mart, it had some pretty awesome, and vast dimly lit store rooms, you could spend a lot of time goofing off in them if you wanted.
As far as I know the plan is to leave a section of the mall behind the Sears still standing, as seen in the rendering posted on the last page.

Anyone else remember the mall at Tacoma Drive? K-Mart at one end, IGA at the other...I can't remember many of the businesses, but once the K-Mart was torn down and the IGA closed, more stores followed suit until they decided to demolish half the mall and make it a strip mall.

[DigitalNinja]

I remember going to watch movies there with my mom, while my dad was at the flea market. Nice to see it torn down. I wonder if the remaining section of the mall is going to be like strip mall or inside. Probably strip.

[Aya_Akai]

I took a development field trip in/around Penhorn today to check out all the goings on.

Well, lets just say the place is looking the saddest it ever has. Anyone familiar with the mall will know. Entrances A, B and C are no longer in use (just as emergency exits for now at least)

There are now only 9 stores operating within the mall, all now concetrated in the mall right behind Sears, and the main hall is now walled off just beyond where The Source used to be.

http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k173/Patrick_Helliwell/penhornasofmay2009.jpg

I will post a couple videos after on youtube that I took from my blackberry while up there later on this evening and I'll embed them here as well.

Things still up there: (referenceing the image above)

309 - Not sure, it was closed off, but stuff was going on
380 - jewelery store
375 - hair salon
370 - cafe
365 - century 21
360 - Tattletales (that place will never die!)
355 - century 21 (again)
350 - 'smart fashions' (crappy CRAPPY clothing store)
340 - dollarama

in the centre of that court... there is a century 21 booth also..

Penhorn Dental is still for some reason in their normal location, no signs of closing despite obvious impending demolition of the mall surrounding it...

[hfx_chris]

That's an awfully small looking Sears ;)

[Aya_Akai]

That's an awfully small looking Sears ;)

lol, they cut it off on the map to make way for the legend for the 'mall' haha... that map is just a vectorized image of a photo I took of the maps when they still used them around this time last year just as the wal mart started coming down haha.

[Keith P.]

Penhorn Dental is still for some reason in their normal location, no signs of closing despite obvious impending demolition of the mall surrounding it...

You must have missed the sign on the construction fence by the big pile o' dirt...."

"Future Home of Penhorn Dental
current location 100 meters <---"

They are going in the new strip mall.

In other news, the former Westphal Sobeys is now fenced off with large equipment stripping away the facade. Dunno if the whole building is going down or just the front.

[Aya_Akai]

You must have missed the sign on the construction fence by the big pile o' dirt...."

"Future Home of Penhorn Dental
current location 100 meters <---"

They are going in the new strip mall.

Ah, I must have... I came up from behind the mall, instead of from the portland entrance (I did a lap around outside lol)

as far as the old westphal sobeys, I had been told by my store manager (russell lake sobeys) that he was told the store is coming down... not sure if that's still the fact or not as I heard that back in feb... guess we'll just have to see.

[hfx_chris]

There's still quite a few tenants in the mall, but with the two anchors (Sobeys and NSLC) gone...there's no way it can last.

[Aya_Akai]

There's still quite a few tenants in the mall, but with the two anchors (Sobeys and NSLC) gone...there's no way it can last.

I wouldn't call 10 tenants "quite a few" lol- century 21 is taking up 3 of the available spots left....

It's been long past the point of ever being able to last, we all knew it was coming... it was just a matter of when...I can't even remember how long it's been since the NSLC was in there to be honest...

There was no chance of that mall surviving since several years ago..

[hfx_chris]

I wouldn't call 10 tenants "quite a few" lol- century 21 is taking up 3 of the available spots left....
Well when the complex only has 12 or 13 units to begin with, 10 is "quite a few".

[Wishblade]

Well when the complex only has 12 or 13 units to begin with, 10 is "quite a few".

He means out of the entire former mall included. I count 10 active units out of over 80. This mall is way past dead.

[alps]

I'm a bit sad to see that sign go ;) I lived in Manor Park when I was very young and my mum used to take me there (and the playground adjacent - "Brownlow Park"?) I much prefer enclosed malls to big box centres (or strip malls), if we need to have either. I avoid Dartmouth Crossing at all costs.

[hfx_chris]

He means out of the entire former mall included. I count 10 active units out of over 80. This mall is way past dead.
80!? I think you're thinking about the wrong building. Hali and I were talking about the strip mall where the old Westphal Sobeys and NSLC were, next to Swiss Chalet. Not Penhorn.

[hoser111]

Speaking of the Westphal Sobey's, the excavators were there when I drove by at supper time tearing the Sobey's part of that strip mall down. Anyone know if there are plans for that spot?