BC Place: Stadium Refurbishment | Completed [Archive] - Page 10

SpongeG

Aug 27, 2009, 5:34 AM

Tourism minister vague on future of new BC Place roof

Jonathan Fowlie and Bruce Constantineau, Vancouver SunAugust 26, 2009 9:55 PM

VICTORIA — Plans for a new retractable roof on BC Place Stadium were placed under a cloud of uncertainty Wednesday as Tourism Minister Kevin Krueger refused to confirm the project will proceed as promised.

"It's a complicated world we're in right now. It's a very expensive project — a very large project — and we're in very challenging economic times," Krueger told reporters.

"The business plan is being analysed by Treasury Board, and that isn't complete yet, but I expect to have more definitive answers for you within the next few days," he said.

His comments sent shock waves throughout the political and sporting worlds.

New Democratic Party leader Carole James said she believes the government is getting ready to scrap the project, a decision that could threaten the status of the Major League Soccer franchise recently granted to the Vancouver Whitecaps FC.

"All of the renovations to BC Place were key in Major League Soccer awarding Vancouver an expansion team," MLS senior vice-president Dan Courtemanche said from the league's New York headquarters.

"If things change, we'd have to address that. Clearly it's something that would be addressed by our commissioner and the league's board of governors," Courtemanche said.

He said the league has never withdrawn a franchise once granted, and there's no clear policy for such an event.

The estimated $365-million stadium upgrades, which include the new roof, are supposed to be complete by the spring of 2011, when the Whitecaps are to begin playing in the MLS.

When asked if a new stadium would still proceed and be ready on time, Krueger said only: "I think so."

When asked if that includes a retractable roof, Krueger responded: "The existing roof could be replaced. The retractable roof is certainly preferred by a lot of the people who are engaged in this whole process."

Whitecaps president Bob Lenarduzzi said he had heard no official word that the project is in jeopardy, and that he remained optimistic it will go ahead as planned.

"I'm feeling very confident that at some point we'll get an official announcement that the process is moving forward," he said.

"I would be absolutely shocked if it were any different than that."

Earlier this week, PavCo, the provincial Crown corporation that operates the stadium, said the bidding process for the project had been delayed because of the complexity of the bids.

Warren Buckley, PavCo CEO, added, however, that the delay "has nothing to do with the project and its viability" and that all the funding appeared to be on track.

"I think we're in good shape," Buckley said, adding that workers have already begun pouring cement for a ring beam that will hold the new roof in place.

"We're moving on."

PavCo has said it hopes to recover more than $100 million through the sale and lease of land next to the stadium, which could accommodate a total of 1.4 million square feet of residential and commercial space. It was not clear what effect the recession has had on the viability of that plan.

Government revenues have plummeted recently, and Tuesday's throne speech warned of a need for serious fiscal restraint in almost all areas of government spending.

http://www.vancouversun.com/business/Tourism+minister+vague+future+Place+roof/1932515/story.html

Vancity

Aug 27, 2009, 6:48 AM

Oooh boy. This news is not good news. I hope things do progress, and this project completed in time. Don't want to see the Whitecaps not get into the MLS. What a disaster this would be.

mr.x

Aug 28, 2009, 12:20 AM

Now, in the wacky way of B.C. politics, the tables have been turned: The Liberals are hinting at scrapping the roof because it's too expensive, while the New Democrats whined yesterday that it would be good for tourism. Classic.

lol.

But yea, this is sad....i was really looking forward to this project.

And I couldn't agree more:

But two things are for sure: If they had listened to the critics, they could have built the thing two years ago in time for the Olympics.

Or if our fearless leaders were really on the ball, they could have gone for the Gastown waterfront stadium proposed by Whitecaps owner Greg Kerfoot -- for no cost to taxpayers at all.

mr.x

Aug 28, 2009, 12:32 AM

^ the stadium needs to be in downtown, period.

And there's nothing wrong with spending money to refurbish stadiums, certainly nothing wrong with 20-year old stadiums. There are stadiums in Europe that have been refurbished and/or expanded even though they were built nearly a century ago.

mr.x

Aug 28, 2009, 12:57 AM

1) Transit. Downtown is served very well by transit, and a good percentage take transit to events to our existing two stadiums. That also means a lot less people drive to these events, and more drivers is simply not what we want.

For instance, there's no doubt that transit use to get to Whitecaps games at Swangard is very low. That goes for most regions of the Lower Mainland.

2) Businesses that can benefit, millions to the economy. The local economic benefit that the Canucks and Lions give to the region each year exceeds a hundred million dollars. This is almost entirely from the crowds in downtown streets before and after each event, benefiting restaurants, bars, hotels, etc. You won't see the same with a stadium elsewhere in the region.

3) A centralized population. Downtown is an attractive place for a stadium (countering the old ways of building stadiums out in the middle of nowhere, as we see with our neighbours down south) and an attractive location to attend an event. The centralized and dense population also boosts attendance numbers.

The only other location I could fathom a stadium is in the middle of Surrey, Whalley, next to a SkyTrain station near Central City.

mr.x

Aug 28, 2009, 1:57 AM

The new roof is as good as dead when this is being canceled as well:

Government cancels multimillion-dollar grant for school maintenance

By Janet Steffenhagen, Vancouver Sun
August 27, 2009 6:15 PM

The B.C. government delivered a blow to school districts Thursday, telling them that a multimillion-dollar grant for school maintenance has been cancelled this year.

The total grant was worth $110 million, but government said districts have a combined surplus of $98.6 million from previous facility grants and that money should cover this year's repairs.

"We've had to make some really difficult choices," Education Minister Margaret MacDiarmid said in an interview. "I would have much preferred to [provide] all the grant money as last year but it wasn't possible."

She said she didn't know if all school districts had unspent dollars that they could use this year.

Surely, a new roof won't come before school maintenance.

SFUVancouver

Aug 28, 2009, 4:07 AM

I'm guessing tomorrow we'll hear that everything is on hold until after the Olympics due to the Province's fiscal emergency. They won't say it is cancelled because of the repurcussions that will have for the Whitecaps, but it sure won't be ready for 2011.

It is actually pretty remarkable that we're only now "feeling it" when it comes to the Province being in a position where it needs to drastically curtail spending. California has been issuing IOUs in lieu of payment for much of this year.

Denscity

Aug 28, 2009, 6:27 AM

Maybe Lions' owner David Braley can cough up the necessary cash to keep this project afloat? Not sure how deep his pockets are though.

Metro-One

Aug 28, 2009, 6:34 AM

The only other location I could fathom a stadium is in the middle of Surrey, Whalley, next to a SkyTrain station near Central City.

I honestly think with the Canada line Richmond is now a serious place to think about placing a stadium (i feel major venues could do well if located beside bridgeport station)

mr.x

Aug 28, 2009, 6:45 AM

^ hmm, I would have considered Richmond if the Canada Line were built with more muscle.....Bridgeport Station would need a serious steroid dosage/massive upgrades if a stadium were to be built in its vicinity. I think it's a great idea to have major venues in the area (Richmond plans to make Bridgeport its "entertainment district" now that it has the Canada Line), but it would be a bit odd to have a plane roaring near you while watching a Whitecaps game. :p

Vancity

Aug 28, 2009, 7:30 AM

It's too bad about the roof :(

I really hope the Whitecaps don't lose their bid. I don't think they can, can they? The MLS cannot retract their bid after they've awarded it to Vancouver, can they?

As for building a stadium in Richmond. Yes! However, if it were built in Richmond, like Mr.x says, the Canada Line would have to be upgraded, and I don't see that happening since it was just built. But it'd be nice to have a stadium (with such a huge asian population in Richmond too..) and a soccer team there! :]

Ah yes, one can dream, can't they?

mr.x

Aug 28, 2009, 9:01 AM

BC Place: Facelift or new stadium?
Provincial government pondering idea of building new stadium and massive downtown redevelopment project with a P3

By Miro Cernetig, Vancouver Sun columnist
August 28, 2009 12:01 AM

VANCOUVER — Faced with having to spend $360 million of taxpayers’ money to put a retractable roof on BC Place Stadium, the Liberal government has begun exploring another option.

Why not throw the massive redevelopment project open to the private sector, using Premier Gordon Campbell’s favourite development model — a private-public partnership deal?

And as the government ponders that so-called P3 possibility, it’s now leading to even larger questions being asked behind closed doors.

Why put a $360-million retractable roof on BC Place Stadium at all?

If the private sector is willing to share the risks in a public-private partnership, why not revisit the idea of building a waterfront soccer stadium, with hotel and convention space? That could revive the dream of billionaire Greg Kerfoot for a waterfront soccer stadium for the Vancouver Whitecaps.

That in turn opens the possibility of using BC Place Stadium, now three decades old, for other events, such as conventions. Or even tearing it down. And that provincial land around the old stadium could be used to build up office, retail and entertainment complexes that could create a brand-new entertainment district in downtown Vancouver.

Nothing is firmed up yet. But what’s being blue-skied here at the top level of the Liberal government could be the largest urban land development project in Vancouver since the buildup of False Creek after Expo 86. It’s also reminiscent of how major stadiums are built and financed in the United States.

And why not?

It may not all pan out, but the thinking is bold. The 2010 Olympics offers another moment, like Expo 86, for Vancouver to transform itself.

After Expo 86, the False Creek lands were built into a residential development that energized the city and helped the city win international recognition. The redevelopment of the underutilized waterfront north of Gastown and land around BC Place would do the same thing.

Such big ideas aren’t without risks, of course. In P3s, the government ultimately backstops the deal if it goes sour. There would have to be some serious modeling here.

But the Liberals believe in P3s, the models used to improve the Sea to Sky Highway to Whistler and the Canada Line connecting Vancouver to Richmond and the international airport.

Moreover, many members of the provincial government would love to keep massive redevelopments such as a retractable roof off the government’s books and out of the hands of its Crown corporations. Many still remember the Vancouver convention centre expansion, which was built by a Crown Corporation and cost almost $900 million, double the original budget. So far, the Campbell government’s P3 projects have come in on budget and on time.

Oddly, the debate about offering the redevelopment of BC Place Stadium and other lands to the private sector has come out of the government’s current budgetary crisis. How, the cabinet asked itself, can the government possibly justify a massive, $360-million splurge on a roof when its revenues are tumbling by the billions, services are being cut and the HST is being leveled on consumers?

That led to the idea of considering BC Place’s new retractable roof as a P3.

In turn, that has led to exploratory discussions whether Kerfoot, the owner of the Whitecaps, or other investors, may be interested in taking a major stake in a major development.

In return, investors would take a share of revenues from the stadium as well as surrounding real estate developments. It’s unclear to what extent some property might be privatized or whether the government would retain shares in some or all of the property.

The provincial government is also hoping that a major corporation may buy the rights to put its name on a completed stadium, whether it be BC Place or a new soccer stadium. Such a branding opportunity could be worth $25 million or more.

This is a huge, still fuzzy idea, of course. But the government believes that a private-sector proposal roughing out what is possible could be sketched out in a matter of weeks or months. Without private-sector proposals for a P3, some key cabinet ministers say the retractable roof for BC Place will have to be delayed or cancelled.

Not everyone loves P3s, of course. But if this idea— or even a part of it — is realized it may be good politics for Premier Gordon Campbell, who is watching his popularity drop like a rock.

First, it would create thousands of jobs. It’s estimated the construction of a retractable roof, for example, would create 1,500 person years of jobs on-site and another 1,500 in spinoffs. The construction of buildings of residential, real estate and office buildings surrounding BC Place is expected to generate 5,500 person years of jobs.

The construction would get underway shortly after the end of the Olympics next winter. That would give a much needed boost to the sagging B.C. economy that would stretch into 2013.

Guess what’s scheduled for then? Yes, the provincial election, in which the premier said Thursday he will be seeking a fourth term.

Will there be private-sector buyers for this idea during the Great Recession? Hard to say.

Recessions do end, though. And with the 2010 Olympics only five months away, there’s one thing for sure. The provincial government has a singular moment to blue-sky this deal for the world to buy.

mcernetig@vancouversun.com
© Copyright (c) The Vancouver Sun

Denscity

Aug 28, 2009, 9:22 AM

Holy Eff!!

mr.x

Aug 28, 2009, 9:34 AM

^ I know, this is massive!....and here we all thought this would be the end of the line and we'd only get another inflatable replacement roof or that the retractable roof would be delayed.

Before, I was supportive of the new roof for BC Place.

But with technical challenges arising (as BC Place wasn't designed for anything but an inflatable roof like the one it has today requiring more additional supports that originally thought) which have rumoured to have increased cost of the new roof far beyond $360-million it simply wouldn't be worth it to spend that money on a old facility.

This new stadium idea sounds fantastic, but I really don't want to see just more condos at where BC Place is today. Rather there should be a focus on entertainment, retail, and office for the site....and perhaps a large landmark that is visible on the skyline just like what the roof of BC Place has provided us for the last three decades.

A new stadium on the waterfront or even a new stadium with a smaller footprint on the BC Place site would be great. (but that would mean $65-million in investments we made to enhance BC Place in time for the Olympics would be lost)

It's a shame they didn't think of any of this way earlier so we could have something better to show the world for 2010.

deasine

Aug 28, 2009, 9:47 AM

If there is a new stadium, the area should focus on culture, office, and retail to increase foot traffic in the area. The viaducts + costco isn't exactly pedestrian friendly (not that I'm saying the viaducts should be torn down).

I'm have mixed feelings. I'll save my thoughts for later when there is an official plan/announcement.

hollywoodnorth

Aug 28, 2009, 10:44 AM

WOW Gordo you keep pulling out all the stops!

Go Gordo Go!

lets hear it for a FORTH TERM!

WarrenC12

Aug 28, 2009, 4:30 PM

There's a lot of mumbo-jumbo in that article. The only thing that seems clear to me is that BC Place won't be ready for the Whitecaps in 2011, which is very disappointing.

Building a new BC Place sized-stadium would cost a fortune, and anything outside of the downtown core would be a mistake.

$360m may seem like a lot of cash, but it's probably about 20% of the cost of a new facility. If they didn't study the feasibility enough prior to the original announcement, somebody needs a kick in the balls, HARD.

If I was Kerfoot I'd be giving the government a big middle finger when they come looking for money. Nobody is/was helping him deal with the morons at the Port to get the land he wants to build a stadium with his own money.

As a taxpayer I really don't have a problem with the $360m for BC Place. Just get it done already.

djmk

Aug 28, 2009, 4:36 PM

i have always thought that the new roof was moronic. it seemed to me it was a band-aid solution to a impersonal ugly building.

i want to see new ideas

fever

Aug 28, 2009, 4:41 PM

Is the article Miro Cernetig speculating? Are these his questions? Could he quote someone or indicate a source?

johnjimbc

Aug 28, 2009, 5:15 PM

Nothing in that article sounds to be even remotely based in reality. They're not even funding promised school maintenance at this point. I thought the whole point of the "current" renovation plan was it would be paid for mostly by developing the land around it. If that can't work now, how is leveling the whole site going to make things any easier?

Yeah, I suspect that announcement will be held off until - at least - next week ;).

As far as reality goes, some focus on the Whitecaps may transpire. I could see a modest proposal for a soccer-specific stadium - perhaps on the waterfront - resurfacing.

But the "We're going to redesign an entire chunk of downtown!!! announcement (because roof bids came in a little high) I just don't think so.

wrenegade

Aug 28, 2009, 9:04 PM

I'm happing the retractable roof isn't happening. It was an expensive band aid solution. Especially in these economic conditions, fix the roof however it needs to be done for the Olympics, throw some paint on, do some powerwashing (ok, lots of powerwashing) and be done with it. The province has much bigger issues to deal with than a $360 million dollar roof. I say knock the thing down after the Olympics and sell all the land to a P3 consortium to redevelopment the land with a slightly smaller stadium with grass and a retractable roof, and reorganize the way the area connects with Robson street.

As for Gordo and a forth term, god help us all. I'll still vote for the Liberals, because its the lesser of two evils. Unless or course the BC Conservatives get their act together.

mr.x

Aug 28, 2009, 10:20 PM

mr.x

Aug 28, 2009, 10:21 PM

So did anyone catch the CKNW show?

WarrenC12

Aug 28, 2009, 11:34 PM

If it's coming towards half a billion for a new roof, it simply wouldn't be worth it and I'd rather have us build a new stadium.

A new stadium will cost way over $1b and take a lot longer. I don't get how that's a "better decision" financially.

We don't like the idea of spending $500m in the current economy, so instead we'll spend $1.5b... ????

hankthetank

Aug 29, 2009, 12:03 AM

A new stadium will cost way over $1b and take a lot longer. I don't get how that's a "better decision" financially.

We don't like the idea of spending $500m in the current economy, so instead we'll spend $1.5b... ????

A new stadium will NOT cost $1.5 billion. The insane new Cowboys stadium cost $1.15 billion and that thing is out of this world. A nice 20-40,000 seat stadium would cost alot less.

mr.x

Aug 29, 2009, 12:32 AM

A new stadium will NOT cost $1.5 billion. The insane new Cowboys stadium cost $1.15 billion and that thing is out of this world. A nice 20-40,000 seat stadium would cost alot less.

I think Kerfoot had said his 15,000 seat Waterfront Stadium would cost $70-million....in my opinion, that's just way too low considering how the stadium would have been built (over railyard tracks for first proposal, and half of it over water on pylons for the second and third proposals). I would think his latest 15,000 seat stadium plan (expandable to 30,000 seats in the future) would come to at least $150-million. A high quality of standard is also expected considering the location of the venue.

A 40,000 seater would probably cost $300-million+ while 60,000 would push up and beyond $500-million......hard to say though, just look at the convention centre.

wrenegade

Aug 29, 2009, 6:04 AM

To be somewhat fair the convention centre had to deal with rapidly increasing construction costs. They also had to drive twice, three times as many pilings? Something like that. Seriously though, no point in building a 60,000 seat stadium again I don't think. Build the minimum required for hosting the Grey Cup (40-something?) and be done with it. If we ever see a Summer Olympics in this city, by the time that would happen even a brand new stadium built now would be obsolete.

Hed Kandi

Aug 29, 2009, 4:58 PM

If Vancouver is to build a new stadium, it should be nothing less than avant garde.

I'm so tired of this prosaic, so-called "architecture" in this city. And to the members of the UDP who approve this crap, I have a message for you!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9nz9-NWdsis

:haha: :haha: :haha: :haha: :haha:

nova9

Aug 29, 2009, 6:26 PM

If there is to be a new stadium, would people want a closed stadium or one with a retractable roof?

SFUVancouver

Aug 29, 2009, 6:51 PM

Just to clarify, the Urban Design Panel acts as a peer review body, providing constructive criticism and input on a project as it is presented. It does not approve anything. The Development Permit Board approves projects.

Nor is it kosher for the UDP to reject a project out of hand for the large movements the architects make. They are, after all, working on behalf of the owners of the land. The only way the system that we have works as well as it does, and it does, is if there is respect for the owners and their architects. The critical feedback is intended to enhance and improve a proposal and perhaps catch anything that may have been missed due to group-think. It is also a firewall against truly ghastly projects that may well conform to all of the zoning and bylaws necessary to be approved by the DPB. Failing the UDP is an embarassing predicament for an architecture team as it implies that there are major problems. Developers have been known to switch architects if their project cannot make its way through the UDP after two tries. I've seen some projects go through twice, failing the first time, and the difference on the second attempt is always noticable, and without exception for the better.

I agree that much of our residential architecture is quite similar and, arguably, uninspired by the standards set by some of the world's leading cities. However this has everything to do with the type of building that we tend to build in the city. Please show me a city that can routinely pump out a dozen or more residential high-rise towers a year that all have standout architectural merit. The way I see it every city will have a few standout buildings and a whole lot of average buildings. I think our average buildings are really quite good and we put up some standout buildings during the last few years, ones that can stand toe to toe with anything in the world. Shangri-La, Woodwards, and Carina in Coal Harbour all come to mind without a moment's hesitation. Bing Thom's Georgia street tower too.

Something that is certainly open to criticism is the City's highly prescriptive zoning and building typology guidelines which comrise the rulebook from which architects design buildings for their clients. Why do all our residential highrises have very similar facades? Because the economics of highrise envelopes favour window wall construction and this yields a very limited choice of exterior treatments. The City's outdoor living space guidelines limit balcony size to 8% of a suites non-excluded floor area while simultaneously requiring all suite's to have some form of outdoor living space. Every architect will maxiumize their outdoor space to the full 8% and the spacing of units is fairly uniform from tower to tower; presto! Almost identical facades.

Anyway, I really agree with you that we should shoot for the moon if a new stadium is to be built. However I still think BC Place should be renovated and a new roof put on. There isn't a better place for a major stadium in the region as far as I'm concerned and I truly doubt that if a demolish-and-rebuild scenario were proposed we would end up with the sort of landmark, iconic, hyperbolic architectural gem that we're hoping for. Nobody could afford it. Certainly not the Province, City, BC Lions, or Whitecaps.

I also consider BC Place a very urban stadium and I'm not convinced its replacement would be of the same caliber. Like it or hate it BC Place was designed to be a serious downtown stadium. It just needs some work to be ready for the next stage of its life.

Canadian Mind

Aug 29, 2009, 8:57 PM

Good post SFU.

agrant

Aug 29, 2009, 11:33 PM

Yea. Interesting point about the facades of the condos. You look at the new Erickson on False Creek, with the cool twist... but since it uses the typical amount of glass with the same blue-ish tinge, it just blends in with the surrounding buildings. I was hoping it would stand out more.

Rusty Gull

Aug 30, 2009, 4:54 PM

The big question is, why do we even -need- BC Place Stadium?

Kerfoot's Waterfront Stadium is a better fit for the MLS Whitecaps, and an expanded version of his stadium (at 30,000 seats) would be the right fit for the BC Lions.

If the two organizations can come to terms, the problem is solved. Besides professional sports, we don't need a 60,000 seat stadium. The Rolling Stones, or the Pope, only visit these parts once a decade anyways.

As for the car show, or the home show, or the boat show? Check out our sparkling new convention centre expansion at Canada Place!

mr.x

Aug 30, 2009, 5:16 PM

30,000 is way too small for the Lions. They already have 30,000 today at BC Place, nevermind a new outdoor stadium. The Lions would need 40,000 bare minimum, and they've stated that publicly quite a few times. They'd also like to retain their capability of hosting the Grey Cup, which would mean the stadium needs to be temporarily expandable to 50,000.

wrenegade

Aug 30, 2009, 6:09 PM

45k I believe. Canad Inns stadium in Winnipeg is expanded to 44,7xx to host the Grey Cup. I say build it mid to high 30s, expandable to 45k. Nothing wrong with having sellouts.

EastVanMark

Sep 1, 2009, 1:53 AM

45k I believe. Canad Inns stadium in Winnipeg is expanded to 44,7xx to host the Grey Cup. I say build it mid to high 30s, expandable to 45k. Nothing wrong with having sellouts.

True, but if we were to lose those 15,000 seats that would be large scale losses for the teams/events. For instance the Lions in recent years have drawn over 50,000 fans for home playoff games. The most recent Grey Cup held here sold out just after Labour Day at 60,000. If they only had 45,000 seats, they would have lost out on about $2 million in revenue. The larger seating capacity allows the Lions to make much more money than the smaller market CFL clubs with smaller stadiums. Remember, with temporary seats, you don't really make much money. In fact you just about break even on them.

Our city is a big enough of a market that they should compete for events with the New Yorks, Chicagos, the Los Angeles', the Toronto's of the world. All of those cities have large-scale stadiums. Vancouver would be taking a serious step back with a scaled down stadium

johnjimbc

Sep 1, 2009, 4:08 AM

I think SFUVancouver is on the right track with his thoughts. Good post!

dtrain

Sep 1, 2009, 2:41 PM

it amazes me that people still think we need a 60,000 seat sports stadium!
I for one am tired of looking at 25,000 empty seats at Lions games.
Hopefully a 35-40,000 seat stadium will happen on the waterfront.

WarrenC12

Sep 1, 2009, 3:58 PM

Good post SFU. I can't believe people somehow think it is easier to simply tear it down and build a new one.

As for the size, yes it was a little overbuilt (trying to attract MLB in the 80s), but it's fine. Sellouts? There are more than a few concerts there (AC/DC, Aerosmith, U2 this summer). With a better venue it's safe to say the number of concerts would double.

The Lions regularly attract low 30s. They were steadily gaining in popularity until they hit this slump. If they can bump that, they will continue to grow in attendance.

WarrenC12

Sep 1, 2009, 4:00 PM

A new stadium will NOT cost $1.5 billion. The insane new Cowboys stadium cost $1.15 billion and that thing is out of this world. A nice 20-40,000 seat stadium would cost alot less.

I'll take that bet any day.

The new Yankee Stadium cost $1.3b (US of course), and it doesn't even have a roof(!). Capacity is 51,000.

Overground

Sep 1, 2009, 4:41 PM

Another thing to think about, what would be the demolition costs with BC Place?

mrjauk

Sep 1, 2009, 6:04 PM

True, but if we were to lose those 15,000 seats that would be large scale losses for the teams/events. For instance the Lions in recent years have drawn over 50,000 fans for home playoff games. The most recent Grey Cup held here sold out just after Labour Day at 60,000. If they only had 45,000 seats, they would have lost out on about $2 million in revenue. The larger seating capacity allows the Lions to make much more money than the smaller market CFL clubs with smaller stadiums. Remember, with temporary seats, you don't really make much money. In fact you just about break even on them.

Our city is a big enough of a market that they should compete for events with the New Yorks, Chicagos, the Los Angeles', the Toronto's of the world. All of those cities have large-scale stadiums. Vancouver would be taking a serious step back with a scaled down stadium

Are you serious? We're about 1/3 the side of Toronto, slightly more than 1/2 the size of Montreal, and much, much smaller than the other cities you mentioned. (Vancouver's population is actually closer to 2.25 million, but the other cities' population estimates are also low.

World's largest cities:
http://www.mongabay.com/cities_pop_01.htm

3 New York (NY), United States 20,090,000
13 Los Angeles United States 14,730,000
25 Chicago United States 9,030,000
46 Toronto Canada 5,790,000
165 Vancouver Canada 2,060,000

EastVanMark

Sep 1, 2009, 6:53 PM

Are you serious? We're about 1/3 the side of Toronto, slightly more than 1/2 the size of Montreal, and much, much smaller than the other cities you mentioned. (Vancouver's population is actually closer to 2.25 million, but the other cities' population estimates are also low.

World's largest cities:
http://www.mongabay.com/cities_pop_01.htm

3 New York (NY), United States 20,090,000
13 Los Angeles United States 14,730,000
25 Chicago United States 9,030,000
46 Toronto Canada 5,790,000
165 Vancouver Canada 2,060,000

Yes, I'm quite serious. I spoke to how we are able to compete for large-scale events with any major city in North America. Once we lose that, we will lose that ability. For instance, in regards to hosting Grey Cups: there have been quiet rumblings about reverting back to only holding Grey Cups in cities with larger stadiums due to the large discrepancy in revenues between smaller and larger CFL stadiums.

As for populations and stadium capacities the following is also true

Columbus, Ohio population- 1.7 million stadium size- 102,000
Knoxville Tennessee population- 681,000 stadium size- 101,000
Green Bay Wisconsin population- 212,000 stadium size 72,000

Should that also mean that since the population of Vancouver is so much smaller than New York, they should have built GM Place with a capacity of 2,000? or perhaps when compared to Toronto 10,400. No, because we are competing with those larger cities for events every day and need comparable facilities if we hope to keep up. Larger stadium events should be no different

Vancity

Sep 1, 2009, 7:29 PM

It would be amazing if we could get a stadium similar to that of the Cowboys. That stadium (when I saw the renderings) was jaw-dropping. Not sure we'll get a stadium like that, but yeah, we need to, like someone was saying, shoot for the moon. Get an architectural stadium gem. Build a stadium the size of BC Place (55,000 - 60,000) people, state of the art. Jobs would be provided for, and we can finally say we have huge state-of-the-art stadium. Who knows? Maybe one of the Major sports leagues may consider expansion, or relocation when/if they see the new stadium.

I'd build both. Allow Kerfoot to build his 15k-30k stadium on the waterfront, and build a new BC Place. haha...that'd be a dream, but a nice one to have ;)

officedweller

Sep 1, 2009, 8:18 PM

Another thing to think about, what would be the demolition costs with BC Place?

The real cost may not be demolition - but the remediation of what's underneath it!

BC Place was built before the current standards were adopted for the remediation of contaminated sites (which were developed largely in response to the clean-up of the Concord site after Expo 86.

Demolition and redevelopment would trigger requirements to clean up the site before redvelopment (for whatever purpose).

Tom Bombadil

Sep 1, 2009, 8:46 PM

I'll take that bet any day.

The new Yankee Stadium cost $1.3b (US of course), and it doesn't even have a roof(!). Capacity is 51,000.

The cost of the video screen alone at Yankee Stadium is nearly equivalent to Kerfoot's stadium proposal. The Yankee's and Cowboys built these stadiums to the standards of 5-star hotels. It is highly unlikely that a new stadium in Vancouver would approach the costs of these stadiums.

The Indianapolis Colts' new 65,000 seat retractable roof stadium opened in 2008 at a construction cost of $720 million dollars.

nova9

Sep 1, 2009, 11:28 PM

I can see the general public udnerstanding a renovation of BC Place. I can see them tolerating a renovation including a new retractable roof. But post-Olympics and after all the Olympic momentum subsides, I don't see the general public (so not anybody on this forum), understanding or even desiring a completely new stadium.

wrenegade

Sep 1, 2009, 11:43 PM

For those comparing our stadiums to similar sized cities in the US, one very important thing to remember is we have CFL team, not an NFL team.

mr.x

Sep 4, 2009, 6:45 PM

^ lmao. The Lower Mainland will be incredibly dense by when? The year 2200?? If we aren't knee high in ocean water by then...

The Langley/Surrey border IS the middle out of nowhere. Stadiums out in the suburbs are terrible urban planning and terrible for the environment.

And lastly, downtown densities....not sprawl densities, which is non-existent.

WarrenC12

Sep 4, 2009, 6:46 PM

What do you mean "countering the old ways of building stadiums out in the middle of nowhere"? Just because its not in the middle of downtown doesn't mean its in "the middle of nowhere". And its not and "old way". Its still being done and it seems to be working out for the teams and fans down there. The entire lower mainland will be incredibly dense in the future anyways. Why not build a stadium on the Langley/Surrey border.

Ask Ottawa and Phoenix how that's working out. And those are <20,000 seat hockey arenas, not >50,000 stadiums.

thurmas

Sep 7, 2009, 3:25 PM

hi there guys just my view from winnipeg here, the bombers are planning to build a new 35,000 seat stadium on the campus of the university of manitoba here in south winnipeg for a cost of about $150 million. It can be expanded to 45,000 for grey cups. if the campbell govt. decides not to go with a new roof for $365 million which seems kind of a waste to me because BC Place is too big for the whitecaps and the lions average between what 30-35000 a game when the stadium seats 60000 its still to big. I would think the leos and the caps could partner up and build a similar stadium to what here in winnipeg is doing. The leos and caps get a new outdoor park which most seem to want and it costs less than half of what a new roof would cost and the stadium could accomadate 45-50000 for grey cups. I have heard alot of talk about rebuilding empire stadium is this true? Also a good stadium to maybe replicate building off of would be the stadium in Hong Kong it was built in a beautiful park with great overhead covering for spectators but it is still open air stadium with great views.

whatnext

Sep 7, 2009, 4:54 PM

Great a half-assed P3 stadium. What kind of Canada Line-type compromises will we see: only half the amount of needed washrooms?

jlousa

Sep 29, 2009, 4:50 AM

I'd take a P3 arrangement over letting any government do it alone.
Take for instance an RFP issued just today for new exterior plaza lighting.

Issued on Sept 28.
Manadotory visit Oct 1.
RFP closes Oct 7.
Contract awarded Oct 13.
Work to be completed by Nov 15, 2009.

Gee and they wonder why things cost so much, with a timeline that short they'll greatly limit the amount of companys that can put in a bid and those that do will be greatly inflated. Great planning, I'm sure they could 't have issued this tender weeks ago.

For those interested in what the lighting upgrades consist of they will be replacing all the 10ft pole along the walkways with 20ft led lumaries.

PROJECT DESCRIPTION
.1 The work is required to provide lighting upgrade in BC Plaza walkways:
.1 Exterior walkways on Level 2
.2 Exterior walkways on Level 3
.3 Two stairways between Level 2 & Level 3
.4 Four Plaza access Stairways
.2 The LED luminaire shall be made from heavy duty aluminum.
LED luminaire shall consist of 75 x 100 lumen LEDs arranged in three rows of 25 LEDs and mounted on 3 parallel heat sinks at 90 degree angles with reflectors to focus the light and maximize the distribution pattern.
.3 and decrease glare and complete with acrylic lense. LEDs shall be Philips
Luxion Rebels.
.4 Input voltage shall be 347V AC and complete with surge protection.
.5 LED luminaire shall be mounted on a 20 foot pole and shall have an adjustable tilt of 10 -15 degrees.
.6 LED luminaire part no. is #BP90015 150LED
.7 LED luminaire shall be complete with bi-level lighting kit.
.8 LED luminaire shall be power coated in DuPont Silverdillo: PFA 500M9.
2.2 POLES
.1 Poles shall be made of steel and shall be 6” x 4” x 20’.
.2 The LED luminaire shall be mounted on top of the 20 foot poles. Two types of poles will be required:
.1 Flat based, complete with hand hole, to mount on concrete steps and
walkway. Part number for pole with flat base is #FP14POLE 4220BM
.2 Wall mounted, complete with wall brackets, to mount on concrete
upstands. Part number for pole with wall mount is #FP14POLE 4220WM.
.3 Poles shall be power coated in DuPont Silverdillo: PFA 500M9.

dtrain

Oct 5, 2009, 3:56 PM

I was at Lions game Friday, noticed that they've removed the banners on the middle ring above Level 2 and have started to add some structural support for a new installation. Does anyone know what sign of signage structure they're installing?

johnjimbc

Oct 5, 2009, 4:41 PM

Further thought regarding jlousa's comment back on Sep 28th is that this kind of RFP that makes one contemplate the possibility that an "insider" could have the jump on any other competitor on the bidding due to a timely "heads up" on what's coming down the pike.

A company that was prepared to respond to this RFP would have a great advantage, wouldn't they?

That's the kind of dealings you don't want to believe could happen in government but you suspect might. This kind of last-minute, "Respond in a week on work we need completed in just under a month" approach makes you go "hmmm."

It's not like they couldn't have known what improvements were needed or planned months ago. What if NO ONE can accomplish the work in that timeframe? Heck, weather alone could hinder the effort. Just seems like there are many "last minute" efforts that aren't piddly details but are instead somewhat substantial undertakings.

I still tend to think / hope things will come together nicely, and I know it is a massive effort . . . there will always be some last minute activities. But after marveling at how much work is still to be done on the road in Whistler (not the Sea-to-Sky portion but the actual widening of roads in Whistler itself (beyond the "official" Sea-to-Sky signage) and the mess of the Whistler Ceremony area (which looks like a moonscape at the moment with concrete still to be poured), I'm really starting to wonder.

One big snowstorm in October and it looks to me like Whistler Olympic preparations could be really screwed. I guess they're counting on El Nino for a drier autumn because they certainly need it. I know the big storms don't normally come in October, but hey it's the once-in-a-lifetime undertaking, think planning might have considered the possibility? I'm not even sure they'll have the bulk of the work there done by November.

mooks28

Oct 7, 2009, 2:13 AM

B.C. Place to get retractable roof

Matthew Sekeres
Vancouver — From Wednesday's Globe and Mail

B.C. Place Stadium will be fitted with a retractable roof after the conclusion of the 2010 Olympic and Paralympic Games after all, a source with knowledge of the situation told The Globe and Mail.

The provincial government started waffling on the proposed roof project this summer, just before announcing that it would run four consecutive deficits and declaring the financial cupboard “bare.” Kevin Krueger, B.C.'s Minister of Tourism, Culture and the Arts told a commuter newspaper last month that tax dollars would not be used to cover the rising costs of the project, and that the province was looking for private-sector partners to help finance the estimated $300-million project.

The Globe and Mail has learned that both B.C. Lions owner David Braley and Vancouver Canucks chairman Francesco Aquilini have expressed interest in partnering with the province.

In theory, either man could help finance the project in exchange for the right to develop provincially owned land – some of the last available real estate in downtown Vancouver – around the stadium. It is also possible that a private investor could demand control over operations of the facility, which is currently held by PavCo, a Crown corporation.

The Canadian Football League's Lions, the primary tenant at the domed facility, and the Vancouver Whitecaps Football Club, which is scheduled to move into the building for its inaugural Major League Soccer season in 2011, have been awaiting word from the province on the status of the roof project. The Treasury Board has been reviewing it for cost savings, and some 160 bidders have agreed to delay their bids until the government makes a decision.

In normal years, the Lions would have already distributed their season-ticket renewal packages, and the team is anxious to inform its fans, particularly its 23,000 season-ticket subscribers, of plans for the 2010 season.

The Whitecaps, meanwhile, could have their MLS franchise revoked should the government kill the plans, announced in May, 2008, for an open-air stadium. This summer, Mr. Krueger went so far as to suggest that the current, air-supported roof could be replaced – rather than installing a retractable roof – in order to save money.

But a source familiar with recent discussions about the provincially operated stadium said the teams have little to worry about, and that an announcement is expected later this month.

“They're hoping to get it resolved in the next 10 days,” the source said. “I think it's a positive resolution [for the sports franchises].”

Mr. Braley met with provincial officials on Friday, in advance of a game against the Saskatchewan Roughriders, but would not comment on the talks. The Burlington, Ont., businessman has been a staunch supporter of the project, even though it threatens to interrupt the team's 2010 schedule.

The Lions still do not know whether they will be forced to move to a temporary stadium near the PNE grounds next season to accommodate construction on the roof. The initial plan called for construction to begin after the Paralympics conclude in March, with the roof completed in time for March, 2011, and the Whitecaps' MLS debut.

The 26-year-old facility has just undergone $65-million in renovations – mostly upgraded luxury suites, bathrooms and concession areas – in order to play host to the opening ceremonies for the 2010 Olympics.

WarrenC12

Oct 7, 2009, 3:37 AM

Well, sounds like good news. I don't like the scare tactics on stuff like this and the Evergreen Line though. Now I won't truly believe anything until the actual work commences. :sly:

metroXpress

Oct 7, 2009, 3:40 AM

They can always say no tomorrow...

mr.x

Oct 8, 2009, 1:51 AM

Rendering of BC Place in its nightly Victory Medals Ceremony mode:
http://img8.imageshack.us/img8/9414/medalsd.jpg

SFUVancouver

Oct 8, 2009, 4:26 AM

BC Place retractable roof proposal still up in air
Last Updated: Wednesday, October 7, 2009
CBC News (http://www.cbc.ca/canada/british-columbia/story/2009/10/07/bc-retractable-roof-bc-place-stadium.html)

The provincial government says no decision has been made on the future of a retractable roof for BC Place Stadium, despite a newspaper report saying the project is going ahead immediately after the 2010 Paralympic Games end in March.

According to a story in the Globe and Mail on Wednesday, B.C. Lions owner David Braley and Vancouver Canucks owner Francisco Aquilini have expressed interest in partnering with the province to finance the project.

A spokesperson with the Ministry of Tourism, Culture and the Arts told CBC News on Tuesday evening that a final decision is still about four weeks away. The spokesperson could not say if Braley and Aquilini were involved in any negotiations.

Calls to both the B.C. Lions football team, who play in the stadium and Vancouver Whitecaps soccer team, who are planning to move into the stadium in 2011, were not returned.
No funding in place

Plans to replace the inflated roof were first unveiled in May 2008, but in the recent provincial budget there was no funding allocated to the project.

According to recent reports, Tourism Minister Kevin Krueger said that tax dollars would not be used to cover the rising cost of what was originally estimated to be a $200-million upgrade, but has since grown to an estimated $365 million.

The stadium is undergoing the first phase of that renovation — a $65-million interior renovation to prepare it to host the opening and closing ceremonies of the 2010 Winter Games in February.

The need to replace the white, puffy marshmallow roof that has dominated the city's skyline became apparent in January 2007, when the Teflon-coated covering tore open and collapsed, leaving the fabric flapping in the wind.

The 60,000-seat stadium located on the eastern edge of downtown Vancouver was built by the province in 1983 and is operated by the provincially owned B.C. Pavilion Corp.

That organization has previously proposed to raise funds for the re-development of the facility by developing condominiums and a new Vancouver Art Gallery on vacant land it owns adjacent to the stadium.

Vancity

Oct 15, 2009, 9:28 AM

Any news on BC Place stadium and it's retractable roof?

Anyone have any pictures of the interior? It's been a while, and we haven't seen any of the upgrades. I'm curious to see what they look like so far? Are the renovations impressive? I understand it's a mess in the stadium, but surely, there are some differences? Are the suites world class, or...not?

I'm still hopeful that this project goes through. Anyone have any idea when the stadium's roof will be confirmed. Leaving it up in the air like this isn't doing anyone any good.

dtrain

Oct 19, 2009, 9:32 PM

Sounds like the new roof is a 'go':
http://www.journalofcommerce.com/article/id35770

October 19, 2009
Sports and entertainment
Creative partnership with private sector to fund BC Place roof
RICHARD GILBERT
staff writer
The B.C. government is looking for creative financing to pay for a new roof on B.C. Place Stadium, after delays caused by a lack of funding for the project in the last budget.
“Since this project went out to tender, the world has changed and the government is in a deficit,” said Kevin Krueger, minister of tourism, culture and the arts.
“Agreement on the price was substantially done before the government released the last budget.”
In September, the provincial government released an updated 2009 budget that contains revised deficit forecasts of $2.8 billion in 2009-10, $1.7 billion in 2010-11, and $945 million in 2011-12
“We have decided to bite the bullet of putting a retractable roof on the stadium instead of replacing the existing roof,” said Krueger. “We want funds from taxpayers, but we are also looking for private-sector participation. We have received some interesting proposals and all private-sector parties want a retractable roof.”
According to a story in the Globe and Mail earlier this month, private-sector involvement at B.C. Place may include B.C. Lions owner David Braley and Vancouver Canucks owner Francisco Aquilini.
Braley and Aquilini have both expressed interest in a partnership to finance the project, in exchange for the right to develop provincially owned land.
The False Creek North Official Development Plan has already been amended to allow for commercial and residential development on the property around B.C. Place.
The money generated from the development of this prime downtown property would be used for the stadium’s maintenance and refurbishment costs.
A private investor could also demand control over operations of the facility, which is currently held by the B.C. Pavilion Corporation (PavCo), a Crown corporation.
According to PavCo president and CEO Warren Buckley, financing is the main factor that has contributed to the delays in awarding the contract for phase two of the project.
The delay “is more about what other financing options are available,” he said.
“This is an opportunity to find a private-sector partner or spread out construction over a longer period.”
PavCo has finalized the roof design with Geiger, the head engineering firm. PCL, the main contractor on phase two, has put the project out to tender.
The project is so complex that it has been broken up into 40 different bids. Kruger said the leading bids have been chosen, but have been delayed.
Bidders have agreed to hold their bids longer than originally anticipated.

BC PLACE
Phase two of the BC place renovation plan includes the installation of a state-of-the-art retractable roof. The technology for the roof can be found at Commerzbank Arena in Frankfurt, Germany, which is the home field of Eintracht Frankfurt of the German Bundesliga. A key feature of the roof design is the installation of a centrally hung electronic scoreboard.
Buckley said PavCo analyzed various bids, as well as the implications for capital cost and debt with the provincial Treasury Board. At the same time, many other factors were considered.
“It’s a cornucopia of matters that need to be addressed, including cost, safety, relocation of tenants and the impact on the Whitecaps if delayed,” he said. “What we are faced with is a project where the roof, components and some of the equipment are very complex. The previous facilities we looked at in Germany were smaller. This stadium is larger in space and the opening is wider.”
The technology for the new roof is found at Commerzbank Arena in Frankfurt, Germany, which is the home field of Eintracht Frankfurt of the German Bundesliga.
“What we are very sensitive about is we have 200 event days that will be affected by this process. Where can 12 football games be held, as well as home shows and trade shows, during ten to 12 months of construction?”
The new retractable roof will go ahead, but it probably won’t be completed on time to meet the original target of summer 2011.
Delays on the construction of the roof may have an impact on the Vancouver Whitecaps’ bid for a Major League Soccer (MLS) franchise. The league’s second Canadian franchise was awarded to the Whitecaps in March based on a plan that included a refurbished stadium.
The roof was scheduled to be completed in time for the start of the 2011 MLS season.
With the 2010 Olympics coming to Vancouver, PavCo was able to get a loan from the government for a $365-million stadium upgrade.
The renovation plan, which includes interior refurbishments and the installation of a retractable roof, is being implemented in two phases
The $65 million renovation plan for Phase One began right after the football season in November 2008.
Phase Two of the renovation plan was scheduled to take place after the 2010 Olympics.

Kodii

Oct 23, 2009, 5:07 AM

BC Place to get retractable roof

VANCOUVER - The aging teflon dome at BC Place will be replaced by a retractable roof costing up to $500 million, the provincial government is expected to announce Friday morning.

The work will be done after the Winter Olympics, The Sun has learned.

Two officials were slated to make a major announcement at 9:30 a.m. about the future of BC Place. A news release didn't provide details about the announcement, but earlier this month Kevin Krueger, minister of Tourism, Culture and the Arts, had suggested a decision on BC Place's roof would come soon.

Krueger was scheduled to make Friday's announcement with David Podmore, chair of the BC Pavilion Corp. Krueger said on Oct. 7 that the province probably couldn't afford the retractable roof, as bids were substantially higher than the $365 million budgeted for the renovation.

Tax revenues have declined because of the recession and Premier Gordon Campbell has cut spending dramatically.

But Krueger had said the province was considering using private-sector money to help pay for the roof.

"There are private sector people who have strong interest in making sure it's a retractable roof," he said at the time.

He wouldn't address a report that B.C. Lions owner David Braley and Vancouver Canucks owner Francesco Aquilini had submitted proposals.

Krueger said the individuals were dealing with Pavco, the Crown corporation that oversees the stadium. PavCo has said it hopes to recover more than $100 million through the sale and lease of land next to the stadium, which could accommodate a total of 1.4 million square feet of residential and commercial space.

It was not clear what effect the recession has had on the viability of that plan.

Analysts have said the retractable roof would increase ticket sales, sponsorships, other revenue streams and double the BC Lions' franchise value, according to Tom Mayenknecht, a marketing and communications executive focusing on sports. According to Mayenknecht, a public-private partnership could help Braley because it would grant him more control over stadium revenues, boosting the value of the franchise.

With files from Miro Cernetig and Jonathan Fowlie

rdalton@vancouversun.com
© Copyright (c) The Vancouver Sun

http://www.vancouversun.com/business/Place+retractable+roof/2134397/story.html

mr.x

Oct 23, 2009, 5:30 AM

$500-million?!! Still cheaper than building a new facility of similar size i suppose (consider that Quebec City's recent proposal to build a 19,000 seat NHL arena will cost $250-million).....but that's still half-a-billion, more than the $350-million Berlin spent on 2006 World Cup renovations for its Nazi-era Olympic Stadium.

wrenegade

Oct 23, 2009, 5:54 AM

Half a billion is a f-load of money. While I'd love to see a retractable roof, if there is money to spend in the kitty, send it towards the Evergreen line. If BC Place doesn't get the new roof for the Olympics (which obviously it doesn't) I think it can wait another 5-10 years.

I realize this may negatively affect the Whitecaps in the MLS, so let Kerfoot do his own thing on the Waterfront. And if that isn't possible, well it might be tough luck. They can play under the dome.

Vancity

Oct 23, 2009, 6:48 AM

500 million for the new retractable roof??!! WOW.

It better be one very nice roof, for 500 million dollars.

That's crazy money. Looking forward to the announcement tomorrow morning.

mr.x

Oct 23, 2009, 6:48 AM

^ well, do remember that this will very likely be a P3 with Aquillini/Braley....the province won't be fronting the entire $500-million.

nova9

Oct 23, 2009, 7:13 AM

Sorry, can you elaborate more on the possible P3 venture if it's just the roof - or am I missing something in that the proposed condos that were to go with the roof are still in the works?

Vancity

Oct 23, 2009, 7:17 AM

^ well, do remember that this will very likely be a P3 with Aquillini/Braley....the province won't be fronting the entire $500-million.

Even if it is P3 - 500 million is a ton of money. I still expect a state-of-the-art retractable roof. It better be good, if it's costing 500 million. For just the roof, that is a lot of money. I thought it was only supposed to cost 365 million??

Not like I'm complaining. I'm glad that we finally have confirmation that the retractable roof is a go. I was afraid that it would be cancelled. That would have been terrible for both the Lions, and the soon to be MLS Whitecaps.

Vancity

Oct 23, 2009, 7:21 AM

PICTURES BY ME

http://img127.imageshack.us/img127/4876/bcplace026.jpg
http://img106.imageshack.us/img106/7603/bcplace028.jpg
http://img14.imageshack.us/img14/2824/bcplace029.jpg

The interior still looks very underwhelming.

I'm really curious as to what BC Place will look like when internal, and external renovations are done. Will it be a stadium landmark? Or will it be sooo underwhelming, that nobody really cares?

mr.x

Oct 23, 2009, 7:28 AM

Even if it is P3 - 500 million is a ton of money. I still expect a state-of-the-art retractable roof. It better be good, if it's costing 500 million. For just the roof, that is a lot of money. I thought it was only supposed to cost 365 million??

Not like I'm complaining. I'm glad that we finally have confirmation that the retractable roof is a go. I was afraid that it would be cancelled. That would have been terrible for both the Lions, and the soon to be MLS Whitecaps.

Well, the $65-million in pre-Olympic interior renovations is included in the $500-million price tag.

Sorry, can you elaborate more on the possible P3 venture if it's just the roof - or am I missing something in that the proposed condos that were to go with the roof are still in the works?

The Lions/Canucks want in on the BC Place project, on top of land sales.

nova9

Oct 23, 2009, 7:30 AM

don't forget that during the olympics, there will probably be hundreds of banners to cover up the massive walls of contrete.......hopefully.

mr.x

Oct 23, 2009, 7:36 AM

The interior still looks very underwhelming.

I'm really curious as to what BC Place will look like when internal, and external renovations are done. Will it be a stadium landmark? Or will it be sooo underwhelming, that nobody really cares?

Yea, i feel that $65-milion isn't enough to do a proper interior renovation for a stadium this size...maybe double that.

The exterior will be a landmark. Guaranteed. There are some really cool renderings and models in previous pages.

EastVanMark

Oct 23, 2009, 8:01 AM

agrant

Oct 23, 2009, 8:21 AM

The interior still looks very underwhelming.

I'm really curious as to what BC Place will look like when internal, and external renovations are done. Will it be a stadium landmark? Or will it be sooo underwhelming, that nobody really cares? You are right, it sort of looks like a well lit parking garage. But that pic won't give you a true sense of where the 65 million went. Much of what they did went into concessions, corporate suites, and washrooms. The exterior will no doubt be a big transformation if they do anything close to the renders.

agrant

Oct 23, 2009, 8:26 AM

Vancity

Oct 23, 2009, 10:13 AM

I still say they can get a much better roof for that much money. Heck throw in a couple extra hundred million and build a new stadium from scratch. The city of Miami is building a retractable roof stadium with seating for just under 40,000 for about $25 million more than this rather plain roof will cost. For that amount I think we could build a proper retractable roof like this:

http://www.transitmiami.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/miami-ballpark-southeast-aerial-lg.jpg

I don't know the specifics of that rendering of the miami stadium, but it looks a lot like a steel retractable roof (ie Rogers Centre, Toronto). And if it is, then BC Place can't handle it. The stadium wasn't built to handle such a roof - that's why the renderings for BC Place looks a lot like Commerzbank stadium. Hopefully, our stadium will look a lot better than Commerzbank. Commerz looks old, and not state-of-the-art. I'm excited to see what they do with the interior designs of the stadium (where the playing field will be for the Whitecaps and Lions).

Does anyone know if all of the seats in BC Place are going to be replaced with nicer, more comfortable looking chairs? that'd go a long way with renovations!

In one of the interior shots of BC Place, I also notice that they have a lot of "stores", like they're not actually stores, they're tables set up, people selling stuff. Really now, it makes BC Place look really 2nd rated. I walk into GM Place, and I'm impressed. I see just pics of BC Place, and how they set up their stores, and I am disappointed. I'm interested to see if the money spent on the interior was actually worth it. maybe, like mr. x said, they should have doubled their budget from 65 mil, to 130 million.

By the way, for clarification's sake. Is the 500 million spent on the overall renovations of BC Place (interior renos, exterior, roof, etc), or is that half a billion spent on just the roof??

Vancity

Oct 23, 2009, 10:16 AM

Money aside, I think what they have planned looks a lot more elegant than what you have there - it looks like a clone of the Skydome.

I don't think the Skydome, aka Rogers Centre, is such a horrible stadium.

The miami stadium rendering actually looks pretty nice - with the exception of those multi-level parkade. They really should invest more in the infrastructure of public transportation, moving the masses of people for sporting events like this. I never really understood why so many American cities have their stadiums out in the middle of nowhere. I've always wondered about that.

Vancity

Oct 23, 2009, 10:18 AM

You are right, it sort of looks like a well lit parking garage. But that pic won't give you a true sense of where the 65 million went. Much of what they did went into concessions, corporate suites, and washrooms. The exterior will no doubt be a big transformation if they do anything close to the renders.

Yep. I agree, it does look like a well lit parking garage :yuck:

WarrenC12

Oct 23, 2009, 1:35 PM

^ well, do remember that this will very likely be a P3 with Aquillini/Braley....the province won't be fronting the entire $500-million.

Braley has gone on record saying he has no involvement. Nobody has contacted him and he's not interested.

Regarding the $500m, just DO IT. I'm happy to see the current stadium location will remain unchanged. A new building would cost more, take way more time, and would virtually guarantee that we wouldn't have the stadium downtown. Win/win here.

Once again these highly publicized projects are really not that much in the grand scheme. I'm sure we will get the usual 'why not spend it on health care/homeless/schools/etc' criticism. I don't think people fully understand how much money goes into healthcare on a daily basis in this province, and how much is wasted in the system. I'm still for public health care, but I hate it when it is used as an argument against any other spending.

hollywoodnorth

Oct 23, 2009, 3:34 PM

Go Go Gadget BC Place!

WarrenC12

Oct 23, 2009, 3:39 PM

Can somebody post details as soon as the press conference happens? I'm away from Vancouver but obviously on SSP. :)

I'm interested in the construction cost, timeline, and home of the BC Lions for the next few years, as I'm a season ticket holder. Go Lulay!

Stingray2004

Oct 23, 2009, 4:53 PM

For Immediate Release
2009TCA0010-000520

October 23, 2009
Ministry of Tourism, Culture and the Arts
BC Pavilion Corporation

PROVINCE CONFIRMS NEW BC PLACE ROOF FOR 2011

VANCOUVER – A fixed-priced contract for the construction of a new, retractable roof on BC Place has been signed between the BC Pavilion Corporation (PavCo) and PCL Constructors Canada Inc, announced Kevin Krueger, Minister of Tourism Culture and the Arts and David Podmore, PavCo chair, today.

As first announced in May 2008, a new retractable roof will be built after the 2010 Olympic and Paralympic Winter Games. The project will be completed by the summer of 2011, in time for the 2011 Grey Cup. The total capital cost for the retractable roof project will be $458 million. The final budget for the roof project is based on a competitive bidding process, including a fixed-price contract for construction with PCL, as well as engineering costs. An appropriate contingency fund has been allocated.

“This investment in our future is expected to create 3,000 person years of employment and ensure British Columbia has a world-class stadium for decades to come,” said Krueger. “A new retractable roof will allow PavCo to attract a broader range of sporting and entertainment events, and continue to host the province’s largest consumer shows and cultural events that benefit Vancouver and our entire province. It will also allow us to provide a revitalized home to the BC Lions and allow for the establishment of the first season of the Vancouver Whitecaps as a Major League Soccer franchise in 2011.”

Once complete, the roof will be the largest cable-supported, fully-retractable, fabric roof in the world at more than four hectares (10 acres). The design allows for the fabric roof to retract into the centre of the roof opening and be hidden inside a suspended, four-sided electronic video board, without compromising sightlines. The roof will be able to open or close within 20 minutes.

In May 2008 the Province gave the go-ahead for PavCo, the Crown corporation that operates the stadium, to pursue design and planning for a new retractable roof after the 2010 Olympic and Paralympic Winter Games. PavCo was also asked to pursue a fixed-price contract and guaranteed timeline to complete the roof upgrade. In September of this year, the government asked PavCo, to re-submit an updated business case taking into account the new economic and fiscal situation.

“We are very pleased to have entered into a fixed-price contract to redevelop this British Columbia landmark and, in doing so, create valuable jobs in our community and build upon a lasting legacy for our residents,” says Podmore. “As we said in May 2008, this project will facilitate further development on the lands adjacent to BC Place that will return significant benefits to the Province and create and support thousands of jobs that depend on BC Place. Those discussions are in the final stages.”

Along with economic and cultural benefits, there are significant environmental and cost-saving benefits to this project. A retractable roof on BC Place will cut energy costs by one-quarter, $350,000 annually, and a further $100,000 annually will be saved through operational savings. These reductions will support ongoing provincial strategies to reduce greenhouse gas emissions.

This project is in addition to interior refurbishments that have already been completed, essentially creating a new building from the old and reducing the impact on the environment. The project will be funded by the Province under the existing capital plan with no impact to existing projects under the Province’s capital plan.

Details of construction timing will be announced in the coming weeks. This redevelopment project will not impact the Opening and Closing Ceremonies for the 2010 Olympic Winter Games or the Opening Ceremony for the 2010 Paralympic Winter Games, which will be held in BC Place. It will also be the venue for nightly medal presentations and cultural events.

BC Place opened in 1983 and averages over 200 event-days a year, generating an economic impact of $58 million annually. A retractable roof will attract an additional 41 event-days to Vancouver per year. These additional events will increase the annual economic impact of the stadium to $100 million per year.

BACKGROUNDER

October 23, 2009
Ministry of Tourism, Culture and the Arts

BC PLACE ROOF PROJECT

PavCo will carry out the design, engineering, planning and budgeting work needed to replace the existing air-supported roof on BC Place with a modern retractable roof to be built after the 2010 Olympic and Paralympic Winter Games and completed in 2011. The roof will be the largest cable, fabric fully-retractable roof in the world. Benefits include:

Job Creation

· The project will create approximately 3,000 person years of employment.

· A retractable roof will attract an additional 41 event days to Vancouver per year.

· These additional events will increase the annual economic impact of the stadium from almost $60 million to $100 million in economic activity, every single year, supporting thousands of jobs.

Environmental Benefits and Cost Savings:

· A new roof will result in savings of up to 25 per cent -- or about $350,000 per year -- in energy costs for the stadium.

· An additional $100,000 annually in maintenance costs associated with the current air-supported roof will also be saved.

· For example, the stadium will no longer need air-lock doors to support the roof.

Future Economic Benefits

· The new roof will substantially increase the number and type of events the stadium can accommodate with a new year-round schedule. Included in those events are concerts and special events that require outdoor, open seating, particularly in the summer months that are now bypassing Vancouver.

· Improved acoustics and interior temperature control will improve the customer experience and allow for a wider variety of events and concerts to use the facility.

· This project will extend the life of BC Place for an additional 40 years. If the Province were to try and replace BC Place with a new facility today, it is estimated the cost would be in excess of $1 billion.

· The new roof is designed to withstand heavy snowfall and strong winds, reducing unexpected maintenance costs compared to the existing air-supported dome roof.

· The Whitecaps Major League Soccer franchise is expected to attract more than 300,000 fans per season.

· PavCo is committed to repaying the project costs through development of adjacent lands. The lands will be leased, not sold. The last undeveloped lands in the core of Vancouver are now those surrounding BC Place. They are highly desirable for commercial and residential use.

http://www2.news.gov.bc.ca/news_releases_2009-2013/2009TCA0010-000520.htm

isaidso

Oct 23, 2009, 5:04 PM

I don't think the Skydome, aka Rogers Centre, is such a horrible stadium.

It's ok for baseball, but I won't watch football in there any more. I've had it with Skydome. I now go to University of Toronto games at Varsity or games in Hamilton. Skydome? Sorry Argonauts, but that stadium is absolutely horrible. I'll come back when you move to a new facility. Horrible sight lines, you feel like you're in a shopping centre, and the owners of the stadium are a bunch of a**holes.

You can't bring anything in there. They even tried to take my Canadian flag away from me. You can't buy Canadian beer and they're doing everything in their power to kill the Argonauts and promote the Bills. Skydome has been a disaster every which way possible.

hollywoodnorth

Oct 23, 2009, 5:08 PM

Go Gordo Go!

isaidso

Oct 23, 2009, 5:14 PM

Sounds like the new roof is a 'go':
http://www.journalofcommerce.com/article/id35770

The new retractable roof will go ahead, but it probably won’t be completed on time to meet the original target of summer 2011.

The Grey Cup has been awarded to Vancouver in 2011. If it's not going to be ready in the summer, even a 2 month delay to say August is cutting it very close.

Will the Lions have to play somewhere else during for the first part of the season? Maybe have their first home date in late July/early August?

WarrenC12

Oct 23, 2009, 5:23 PM

The Grey Cup is November.

Thanks for the press release.

Go PavCo Go!

mr.x

Oct 23, 2009, 5:44 PM

"This building will be ready and shiny and polished up by the Grey Cup in 2011," said Podmore, adding the stadium will be a big asset for the city.

Wrong event, unfortunately. Should have been for 2010 instead of a 3-hour football game.

The $458-million cost includes building the Lions and Whitecaps a temporary stadium at the PNE according to the Sun.

Vancity

Oct 23, 2009, 5:44 PM

It's ok for baseball, but I won't watch football in there any more. I've had it with Skydome. I now go to University of Toronto games at Varsity or games in Hamilton. Skydome? Sorry Argonauts, but that stadium is absolutely horrible. I'll come back when you move to a new facility. Horrible sight lines, you feel like you're in a shopping centre, and the owners of the stadium are a bunch of a**holes.

You can't bring anything in there. They even tried to take my Canadian flag away from me. You can't buy Canadian beer and they're doing everything in their power to kill the Argonauts and promote the Bills. Skydome has been a disaster every which way possible.

but the Rogers Centre was built and configured for baseball? I don't think it was made for football, so yeah, the sightlines are probably really bad. I guess I meant the structure of the building itself - it's not bad, and it is a city landmark - recognized probably globally alongside the CN Tower.

I know that Toronto wants to bring in the Bills, and make it into the NFL. That would, in my estimation, pretty much kill the Argos if it ever happened, and it would be a destructive blow to the CFL league too, because of the financial support that comes out of TO. I hope that Toronto never ever gets the Bills, and gets a good team turned around with regards to the Argonauts. They can be a good team, they just aren't doing anything at this point to improve. I mean, the Argos are terrible this year. Absolutey horrible. It's no wonder nobody in that city wants to embrace, let alone watch, the team. They haven't done anything to give their fan base any reason to watch (kind of like the Grizzlies' management did here).