[hollywoodnorth]

do you think a permanent cirque would be financially viable?

I highly doubt it......

[BCPhil]

^ Not only that, but MGM Mirage basically owns the monopoly on Cirque stage shows. Unless you were to give them a cart blanch on a casino resort it wouldn't happen. But it could work if it were semi permanent. There is no way it would sell enough tickets for 5 days a week, but if it spent a month here, then went on the road for a few months in a cycle throughout the year, I think it would be feasible. Especially if it were also a general use amphitheater that could be used for concerts or other performances. Downtown could use another major venue (more intimate that GM Place) for shows.

But downtown Vancouver does need some more attractions. Especially things to do at night. We have all this buzz after the Olympics, but we need more things for tourists to do, and not all tourists are interested in club crawling on Granville street. Casinos are much more structured and secure and combined some good retail (like Cesars, Belagio, or Wynn in Vegas) could be quite the hot spot, and do wonders for local attractions like the BC Sports hall of fame and future Art Gallery. I just hope it's not a $10 a hand of Black Jack type of place, and more accessible to people out looking for fun, not just for people who treat gambling like it's their job.

The only problem is that it is a bit of a walk from Transit. I hope that if the casino goes ahead it further encourages the development of the Downtown Streetcar network.

[raggedy13]

^I'm pretty sure Stadium-Chinatown SkyTrain station would be little more than a 5 minute walk away, and the new Yaletown-Roundhouse station is surprisingly close as well - within a 10 minute walk I'd say. But I too think the Streetcar and Casino would be mutually beneficial.

[officedweller]

do you think a permanent cirque would be financially viable?

About as viable as Storyeum...

[ozonemania]

do you think a permanent cirque would be financially viable?

This was probably many years ago but there was some hopeful thinking that Cirque would open an international Cirque recruitment/training school here. This kind of model -- an international school as well as an entertainment venue -- might have worked. I agree tho, it would be very challenging to support a permanent circus show.

I just wish our city could support a few permanent theatres for Broadway productions. That would be totally awesome.

[officedweller]

Yeah, come to think of it the Ford Threatre/The Centre scaled back its opriginal ambitious plans for year round shows.

[itinerant]

Yeah, come to think of it the Ford Threatre/The Centre scaled back its opriginal ambitious plans for year round shows.

The former-Ford Theatre (now The Centre...) scaled back only because the owners (Garth Drabinsky and LiveEnt) went bankrupt with some financial mis-dealings. The current owner has no interest in anything other than Chinese spectaculars, and makes it difficult for touring shows or anybody else to book extended runs. Too bad, since the former-Ford theatre was purpose-built for Broadway-style touring shows, and is extremely well-equipped for it.

[s211]

The former-Ford Theatre (now The Centre...) scaled back only because the owners (Garth Drabinsky and LiveEnt) went bankrupt with some financial mis-dealings. The current owner has no interest in anything other than Chinese spectaculars, and makes it difficult for touring shows or anybody else to book extended runs. Too bad, since the former-Ford theatre was purpose-built for Broadway-style touring shows, and is extremely well-equipped for it.

By extremely well-equipped, you mean no loading area, right?

[PaperTiger]

Yeah, and a lobby that can hold something like a 1/3 of the audience during intermissions. Part of the reason Livent went under is they purpose built theatres in markets that couldn't support them... I'm just Sayin'.

[Spoolmak]

I like the ferris wheel idea. Plant some of the big palm trees you see in San Francisco, and some fountains, and maybe a Rollercoaster. It would be a fun little place for people to hang out before football games...and with the new roof, the ferris wheel riders can get a peek at a game

[Zassk]

^I'm pretty sure Stadium-Chinatown SkyTrain station would be little more than a 5 minute walk away, and the new Yaletown-Roundhouse station is surprisingly close as well - within a 10 minute walk I'd say. But I too think the Streetcar and Casino would be mutually beneficial.


The plot of land in question is precisely at the midpoint between the two lines' stations - about 500 meters walk either way.

[Canadian Mind]

hmm... Nice place for a future streetcar stop?

[officedweller]

The former-Ford Theatre (now The Centre...) scaled back only because the owners (Garth Drabinsky and LiveEnt) went bankrupt with some financial mis-dealings. The current owner has no interest in anything other than Chinese spectaculars, and makes it difficult for touring shows or anybody else to book extended runs. Too bad, since the former-Ford theatre was purpose-built for Broadway-style touring shows, and is extremely well-equipped for it.

But when the Law brothers (of Denver) took over the theatre they had ambitious plans and put on a full season of shows - which was scaled back. I think you can still see a banner on the north side of the theatre advertising The Full Monty and other mainstream shows (together with their Chinese action musicals) from 2003 or 2004. When that season did not pan out, they scaled back to just the Chinese musicals and having many more private events at the theatre.

[deasine]

Announcement comes tomorrow.

[MechMike]

Announcement comes tomorrow.

EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEK!


Permission to flail arms about wildly while I run around in circles?!

[mr.x]

*fingers crossed for something that is truly MASSIVE*

[Metro-One]

:previous: I am with you on that.

And in all honesty, some ride attractions actually would make sense in this area, since with a casino, a major hotel and 2 major stadiums, such an area would be a destination for local, those from the hinterland and tourists alike!

Who wouldn't want to come to a MLS or CFL game early and hit up the roller coaster....

Don't bother responding to this, i now I am dreaming, and I know there are many out there going "*sigh* Metro-One....."

[Canadian Mind]

Like me. :P

[mr.x]

:previous: I am with you on that.

And in all honesty, some ride attractions actually would make sense in this area, since with a casino, a major hotel and 2 major stadiums, such an area would be a destination for local, those from the hinterland and tourists alike!

Who wouldn't want to come to a MLS or CFL game early and hit up the roller coaster....

Don't bother responding to this, i now I am dreaming, and I know there are many out there going "*sigh* Metro-One....."

Dream as much as you can metro...before someone wakes you up and unloads a dump truck of endless feasibility reports, business plans, public consultation reports, and NIMBY letters...oh Vancouver, when will you grow up?

[LeftCoaster]

I think the people who ignore feasibility studies and business plans business plans are those who need to grow up... but hey what do I know??

I too would like somehting fun in the area, but not a roller coaster... it seems too tacky and reno/vegas. I cant some up with anything better so I guess I'm kind of a hippocrate, but I'm sure we can do better than a roller coaster on a small peice of land downtown. Somehting like the bunjee off Sky Tower in Auckland would be cool, but it would have to be all season (ie rain proof), so that might not work.

[GeeCee]

Fingers crossed for a Vancouver 2010 museum..

Plenty of room for a ferris wheel.

[mr.x]

^ nobody said we shouldn't do feasibility studies and business plans, but here in Vancouver they are endless and rarely anything gets done unless they are dragged on for years and years or even decades. This city is anal about every little thing.

[mr.x]

Fingers crossed for a Vancouver 2010 museum..

Plenty of room for a ferris wheel.

I think a large Vancouver 2010 exhibit as part of a new and relocated BC Sports Hall of Fame is doable, but I highly doubt a Vancouver 2010 Museum is....Toronto opened a massive IOC Olympic museum called "Olympic Spirit Toronto" (consolation prize for losing 2008) a few years ago and it closed its doors after 2 years.



http://www.fitarchitects.com/images/gallery/8/Olympic-Spirit-Toronto---10.gif
http://www.fitarchitects.com/project/8

[GeeCee]

Yeah but we actually hosted the Olympics here. :P

[mr.x]

Yeah but we actually hosted the Olympics here. :P

loll...well, the short-lived Toronto museum was 50,000 square feet and it was at a pretty good location...i'd love to see the sports hall of fame move out into a proper facility mixed in with a large Vancouver 2010 + Olympic exhibit.

[LeftCoaster]

I've never heard of/seen that Toronto Olympic Museum... what a terrible idea. I am all for a new sports hall of fame with a dedicated olympic museum though, what a great way to preserve the legacy. Maybe Aquilini could be strong armed into helping build it in exchange for some concessions with his GM place developments. Could be a nice way for him to get some extra density while promoting the Canucks who would figure prominantly in such a venue... he seems to be quite involved in the BC sports scene too.

I just had a thought for something fun by the BC place casino area. I seem to remember a certain zipline which was a big hit during the olympics... maybe we could recreate the experience down by the dome. I cant think of any other cities that have a zipline running through downtown either, could be a pretty original idea.

[Canadian Mind]

That would be neat. I never got the chance to ride on that. And maybe a bungee jump down by False Creek for the summer months?

[WarrenC12]

I think the people who ignore feasibility studies and business plans business plans are those who need to grow up... but hey what do I know??

Exactly. If not for that we wouldn't be talking about taking away the Viaducts because they would be in the middle of a giant expressway. :cheers:

[Prometheus]

I just had a thought for something fun by the BC place casino area. I seem to remember a certain zipline which was a big hit during the olympics... maybe we could recreate the experience down by the dome. I cant think of any other cities that have a zipline running through downtown either, could be a pretty original idea.

How about this crazy idea folks? Instead of just a zipline, how about a full ziptrek through the downtown core? That's right folks, an "urban ziptrek" that travels from building top to building top, starting from a tall building and descending to a less tall building, and then to an even less tall building, and so on and so on. It would be just like the ziptrek they have at Whistler, but with buildings instead of trees, and streets instead of ravines.

Of course this would probably never happen. But, conceptually speaking, it is completely valid. It would also be unbelievably fun and totally unique.

[nova9]

I would totally do the zipline through downtown. It would be best rolled into an existing attraction. Get people up high to a viewing platform where they might be enticed to pay the extra money for a ziptrek.

Say, up at harbour centre. People pay to go up anyways, you can maybe then coerce them to pay some more to do the zip trek. Kinda like Macau Tower and having an official bungee jump at the top.

[Spoolmak]

I think the people who ignore feasibility studies and business plans business plans are those who need to grow up... but hey what do I know??

I too would like somehting fun in the area, but not a roller coaster... it seems too tacky and reno/vegas. I cant some up with anything better so I guess I'm kind of a hippocrate, but I'm sure we can do better than a roller coaster on a small peice of land downtown. Somehting like the bunjee off Sky Tower in Auckland would be cool, but it would have to be all season (ie rain proof), so that might not work.

When I said rollercoaster its funny you thought LV, because I had Seattle in mind, like at the space needle.

[Denscity]

Amusement rides downtown would be really cheesy and corny. Maybe Metrotown. More like Langley or Calgary.

[Metro-One]

I love the idea of permanent zip line through the towers of Vancouver, or around the stadiums. Would be a nice attraction.

[Canadian Mind]

How about this crazy idea folks? Instead of just a zipline, how about a full ziptrek through the downtown core? That's right folks, an "urban ziptrek" that travels from building top to building top, starting from a tall building and descending to a less tall building, and then to an even less tall building, and so on and so on. Just like the ziptrek line they have at Whistler, but with buildings instead of trees, and streets instead of ravines.

Of course this would probably never happen. But, conceptually speaking, it is completely valid. It would also be unbelievably fun and totally unique.

lol, imagine what it would do for camea crews in future spider-man movies?

[Metro-One]

Amusement rides downtown would be really cheesy and corny. Maybe Metrotown. More like Langley or Calgary.

I still don't see how they are "cheesy" or "corny." It is not like they would be located in the central business district of Vancouver, or in an area like Gastown, such a feature would be located in an entertainment district, such as what will be created in an area that houses a major casino, hotel and 2 large stadiums. It would fit well on the False Creek waterfront within the entertainment area. Not an entire theme park, but just a couple attractions tied into the fabric of the entertainment zone. This is done throughout Asian, Europe, South America and even Australia and the US. it is called having a downtown area that appeals to many different personalities found within the metro area.

[vanman]

How about this crazy idea folks? Instead of just a zipline, how about a full ziptrek through the downtown core? That's right folks, an "urban ziptrek" that travels from building top to building top, starting from a tall building and descending to a less tall building, and then to an even less tall building, and so on and so on. It would be just like the ziptrek they have at Whistler, but with buildings instead of trees, and streets instead of ravines.

Of course this would probably never happen. But, conceptually speaking, it is completely valid. It would also be unbelievably fun and totally unique.

That is actually a really creative idea. It would be awesome and I'm pretty sure there isn't anything like it in the world. Plus ordinary ziptreking is lame, I did the Whistler tour and it blew, it wasn't nearly as fast or as exhilarating as I thought it would be.

[ozonemania]

Imagine ziptrekking over the new stadium roof. Wouldn't that be cool!

[jsbertram]

hmm... Nice place for a future streetcar stop?

Or a Streetcar-rollercoaster?

I'd Ride That!

[mr.x]

Perhaps we've raised our expectations so high that we've set ourselves up for disappointment...

[Vancity]

So what's this announcement that's expected for tomorrow?

[ozonemania]

So what's this announcement that's expected for tomorrow?That the site adjacent to BC Place is slated to house a new mega development... which will include a mega Las Vegas style hotel, resort and convention space, along with a Cirque du Soleil venue, a Olympic museum, Broadway theatre, a roller coaster amusement park, and a network of ziptrek lines, connected to the subway through a new streetcar line.

I'm so pumped! I believe, do you believe?

[GeeCee]

That the site adjacent to BC Place is slated to house a new mega development... which will include a mega Las Vegas style hotel, resort and convention space, along with a Cirque du Soleil venue, a Olympic museum, Broadway theatre, a roller coaster amusement park, and a network of ziptrek lines, connected to the subway through a new streetcar line.

I'm so pumped! I believe, do you believe?

:slob: :yes:

[WarrenC12]

Can't wait...

http://th00.deviantart.net/images3/300W/i/2004/160/8/8/Mr__Burns_Casino.png

[Delirium]

i think they should have considered building this casino next to Canada Place as originally planned. Why does it matter if its next to BC Place? is the thinking that people will gamble after watching a Lions game? Perhaps but long term, you can get way more attendance if it was built on the waterfront;

1. cruise ship passengers
2. conventioneers
3. most major hotels are located near-by
4. major transit hub
5. better views / location

this really needs to be something big, bold and brash if they expect the group of people above to go out of their way to visit. if it's not vegas style flash and theatrics, it won't work and only locals will go and that's not what they want...

[nova9]

:previous: :previous: :previous: uhhh, kinda too late. where would it go? it's not like there is a ton of space there. a luxury hotel and casino would not fit in, especially not in the lands east of the seabus where the whitecaps stadium would ideally be.

as well, with your take, it seems to be a tourist thing, that would leave it undercapacity outside of july. i think operators would want to focus on building a local base to fill the casino year round?

[Canadian Mind]

It's not that big of trip, especially if a future streetcar line were to directly connect the two (even a quick trip on Expo or Canada lines wouldn't be a back-breaker).

[jsbertram]

i think they should have considered building this casino next to Canada Place as originally planned. Why does it matter if its next to BC Place? is the thinking that people will gamble after watching a Lions game? Perhaps but long term, you can get way more attendance if it was built on the waterfront;

1. cruise ship passengers
2. conventioneers
3. most major hotels are located near-by
4. major transit hub
5. better views / location

this really needs to be something big, bold and brash if they expect the group of people above to go out of their way to visit. if it's not vegas style flash and theatrics, it won't work and only locals will go and that's not what they want...

Putting the mega-casino et.al. on BC Place land with a 99 year lease gets annual $$ to pay for the new roof.
And more tax revenues too.

[Stingray2004]

For Immediate Release
2010PREM0070-000325

March 26, 2010
Office of the Premier
BC Pavilion Corporation

BC PLACE COMPLEX TO CREATE THOUSANDS OF JOBS

VANCOUVER – A new 680,000 square foot entertainment complex attached to BC Place will create more than 8,500 direct and indirect jobs during construction and ongoing operation, increase tourism and build a more vibrant downtown, announced Premier Gordon Campbell and David Podmore, chair of BC Pavilion Corporation (PavCo).

PavCo, the Crown corporation that manages BC Place, confirmed today a 70-year lease agreement with Paragon Development Ltd. for two acres of the BC Place west side lands – the result of a competitive bidding process that attracted multiple proposals. The $450-million proposed project will feature two new internationally-branded hotels and a new gaming facility, subject to municipal approval.

“This project will create literally thousands of jobs and be an important generator of tourism and economic activity for Vancouver and the entire province,” said Premier Campbell. “During the Olympic Winter Games the streets of Vancouver were alive with the Olympic spirit – and we hope this entertainment complex will help recapture some of that excitement.”

The project is expected to create an estimated total employment of more than 3,200 direct and 2,200 indirect jobs during construction and an estimated total employment of more than 1,900 direct and 1,300 indirect jobs during facility operations. The facility is expected to generate up to $130 million in gaming revenues that will be distributed to the Province in the first full year. Pending City of Vancouver approval, Edgewater Casino will be relocated as part of the rezoning process.

“This unique development will further enhance the new BC Place as a world-class facility.” said Podmore. “In addition to gaming revenues for both the Province and the city, this complex brings additional economic benefits in both tourism and event opportunities.”

“Together with the incredible changes being made at BC Place, this iconic venue will draw visitors and residents to enjoy an entertainment destination unique to Canadian cities,” said Scott Menke, president, Paragon Development. “The business case was evident to us, and we’re looking forward to working closely with PavCo and BC Place in redefining Vancouver’s entertainment epicentre.”

Pending the rezoning application to the City of Vancouver, construction is planned to begin in early 2011 and be completed in mid-2013. Events will continue to be held during construction

The $6-million per year (plus inflation) in lease revenue from the development will, together with other development, sponsorship and new event revenues, help to defray the cost of the retractable roof at BC Place.

In October 2009, the Province and PavCo announced a $458-million fixed-price contract between PavCo and PCL Constructors Canada Inc for a new retractable roof. Beginning in April 2010, BC Place will undergo a major revitalization with the installation of the largest cable-supported retractable roof of its kind in the world.

The new roof will cut energy costs by one-quarter, $350,000 annually and a further $100,000 annually will be saved through operational savings. The roof project will create approximately 3,000 person-years of employment, attract an additional 41 event days to Vancouver annually and increase the annual economic impact of the stadium from $60 million to $100 million in economic activity every single year. It will also extend the life of BC Place for an additional 40 years.

BC Place is the largest sports, exhibition and entertainment venue of its kind in British Columbia, hosting the province’s most notable events, including the Opening and Closing Ceremonies of the Vancouver 2010 Olympic Winter Games. Upon re-opening in 2011, BC Place will be the new home for the Vancouver MLS franchise, will continue to be home to the BC Lions Football Club, the 2011 Grey Cup and many other exhibitions, community and entertainment events.

Paragon Development Ltd. is one of North America’s leading destination resort developers, with special emphasis on gaming-based destinations. Paragon currently operates casinos in Western Canada including River Cree Resort outside of Edmonton, Alberta, and purchased Edgewater Casino on Vancouver’s False Creek waterfront in 2006. That casino will be closed once the new development is ready for occupation.

http://www2.news.gov.bc.ca/news_releases_2009-2013/2010PREM0070-000325.htm

[Locked In]

$450-million casino and hotel project to be built beside BC Place

By Andrea Woo, Vancouver SunMarch 26, 2010 10:26 AM

http://www.vancouversun.com/2629135.bin?size=620x400

VANCOUVER - Premier Gordon Campbell confirmed Friday morning that a major entertainment complex is coming to Vancouver.

The new complex will include a 110,000-square-feet, 24-hour casino, two international hotels and five restaurants.

The project will cost $450-million and construction is expected to begin in early 2011 and be completed by mid-2013. The project is subject to city approval.

Campbell made the announcement with BC Pavilion Corpration chair David Podmore and several officials from Las Vegas-based Paragon Gaming at a new conference held at BC Place.

Edgewater Casino, owned by Paragon, will close its location at the Plaza of Nations, essentially expanding into the new stadium-side location.

The project will create more than 8,500 direct and indirect jobs during construction and ongoing operation, increase tourism, generate gaming revenue and build a more vibrant downtown, Premier Gordon Campbell said in a release.

Revenue from the project will help defray the cost of the retractable roof at BC Place, BC Pavilion Corporation said. The province and PavCo announced last year a $458-million fixed-price contract between PavCo and PCL Constructors Canada Inc to build a new retractable roof on the stadium. That project will begin in April.

awoo@vancouversun.com
© Copyright (c) The Vancouver Sun
Source: Vancouver Sun (http://www.vancouversun.com/million+casino+hotel+project+built+beside+Place/2730700/story.html)

[djh]

I wonder if the Ritz-Carlton walked away from the location opposite Shangri-La and have been enticed by the Province to take one of these towers...?

[mooks28]

Any rendering of the new complex?

[osirisboy]

I have a sick feeling in the back of my mind that the city of vancouver will object and instead will want luxury waterfront social housing to be built.

[NetMapel]

Vancouver Sun's article now have this picture:
http://www.vancouversun.com/2730772.bin

[bils]

yea i don't wanna go debbie downer on this either, but i won't believe it until a shovel hits the ground in 2011. this just seems to have a lot of similarities to the big VAG on false creek announcement last year, or whenever that was.

[GeeCee]

I certainly hope that they're chipping in for some upgrades to Stadium station with all this.

[mooks28]

yea i don't wanna go debbie downer on this either, but i won't believe it until a shovel hits the ground in 2011. this just seems to have a lot of similarities to the big VAG on false creek announcement last year, or whenever that was.

Edgewater has to move, so I wouldn't be so sure about that. The reaction from the public has been generally positive, and you don't see City Council standing on their head at this point so I think this is a go.

The VAG thing was just sprung on everyone -- including VAG's board -- so I'm not surprised that fell through.

[Smooth]

Who's going to be the first here to complain that those towers aren't tall enough? I'm betting on hed kandi :)

[bils]

http://www.theprovince.com/2730858.bin?size=620x400

from theprovince.com

[ozonemania]

Wow, cool. I can't really tell from the picture (is that conceptual or an actual render), but if this complex is going to employ thousands and attract even more, I hope that it has a good plan to integrate with transit and enhance street life à la Vancouver.

Right now it looks like a SimCity ploppable.

[Locked In]

http://www.theprovince.com/sports/2730857.bin?size=620x400
Source: The Province (http://www.theprovince.com/sports/million+casino+hotels+part+Place+redevelopment/2730854/story.html)

[Canadian Mind]

Right now it looks like a SimCity ploppable.

Wouldn't be surprised if the complex becomes just that in a future SC installment. :P

Where exactly are they planning on putting this complex in relation to BC place? Will it be attached to BC place, or entirely seperate, will they be moving/expanding Terry Fox Way, etc?

[Smooth]

Slightly larger/more clear picture from the CBC..

http://www.cbc.ca/gfx/images/news/photos/2010/03/26/bc-100326-bc-place-casino-paragon.jpg
http://www.cbc.ca/gfx/images/news/photos/2010/03/26/bc-100326-bc-place-casino-paragon.jpg

[mrjauk]

A few comments from me:

First, I'd like to see something architecturally pleasing, which these renders are not (although these may just be conceptual drawings). The problem with a casino is that owners want to remove any link between who is inside and the outside world in order to keep them gambling (and losing, of course).

Having said that, it would be nice if the hotel(s) and restaurants incorporate some patio space in order to interact with the street. That piece of land is essentially the start of Pacific Blvd. and the building design should somehow express that.

[Locked In]

These are initial designs, so it will likely change a bit. It sounds like it will be directly attached to the stadium, though it's not like there would actually be stadium access most of the time...

From the looks of it, Terry Fox Way will be gone, and Smithe will be extended past the new casino to meet up with the the road running through Coopers.
Google Map of Site (http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=1113+Homer+St,+Vancouver,+Greater+Vancouver+Regional+District,+British+Columbia,+Canada&ll=49.275554,-123.112986&spn=0.003423,0.009645&t=h&z=17)

I agree that street interaction is necessary - otherwise, that area will feel just as disconnected from the rest of downtown as it does now. From the Province (http://www.theprovince.com/Premier+ride+Place+casino/2728691/story.html):


The area is already zoned commercial-entertainment by the city, but Victoria will still seek formal approval from city hall to proceed.

Vancouver Coun. Geoff Meggs said he expects a vigorous debate about the project, but it's unlikely the city would attempt to block it.

I suppose that would be the opportunity for the City to ensure that it meets the street nicely.

[mooks28]

A few comments from me:

First, I'd like to see something architecturally pleasing, which these renders are not (although these may just be conceptual drawings). The problem with a casino is that owners want to remove any link between who is inside and the outside world in order to keep them gambling (and losing, of course).

Having said that, it would be nice if the hotel(s) and restaurants incorporate some patio space in order to interact with the street. That piece of land is essentially the start of Pacific Blvd. and the building design should somehow express that.

I agree. Crown Casino in Melbourne is a good example of how to make a Casino interact with its outside surroundings; Vegas is not.

[GeeCee]

I would have liked to see taller towers myself, but anything taller might obstruct the view/sun when the roof is open, causing shadows on the field of play.

[racc]

Hopefully those are just conceptual renderings. They do set a new standard for both ugly and boring. Yikes. Not a big fan of casinos but I was hoping that it would at least be an interesting looking development.

[Canadian Mind]

I would have liked to see taller towers myself, but anything taller might obstruct the view/sun when the roof is open, causing shadows on the field of play.

I don't think having towers 50-100 feet taller than the stadium roof would do much to obstruct the sunlight.

[WarrenC12]

Roof will deflate May 3rd. Get your last minute Vancouver skyline pics in now. :D

[deasine]

I think it looks kind of cool, especially the podium of the building, although it doesn't seem to have the right scale relative to the heights of the buildings. I'm hoping more patios as well as there is little street activity in the area. the buildings are boring, but didn't expect much from them anyway.

[red-paladin]

Looks like the Premier said at the last minute... "oh, by the way guys, the outside has to be 25% BC pine beetle wood products!"

[hollywoodnorth]

Go Gordo Go!

[Canadian Mind]

I think that would be kinda neat if done right.

[paradigm4]

It's certainly very West Coast in design, which I appreciate. I don't think I would've liked something straight out of Vegas

[Metro-One]

I really hope the design changes. I was thinking there would be a few more lighting features, more street interaction and a better overall design (more detailed landscaping would also be welcome).

I love the idea of the casino and hotels, but this is a really boring design (like all of our casinos so far)

The tower heights I am ok with because of the stadium next door needs some sun!

[wrenegade]

The design is meh. I'm hoping for many changes. I like the use of wood, but it definitely could have been done better. The building height could be a little higher, I'm not too concerned with that, but with a floor plate as large as it is, it would be nice to see something creative and different. So many of Vancouver's buildings are limited by small site size, I was hoping we'd see something more than two regular vancouver style condo buildings with an overgrown podium between them.

[Locked In]

Agree with the general consensus - not blown away with the overall design based on these preliminary renders (though whether it works will be in the details), like the use of the wood, would be ok with somewhat higher towers, provided they don't cast shadows into the stadium. In respect of building heights, Frances Bula mentions on her blog (http://www.francesbula.com/uncategorized/450-million-24-hour-casino-two-hotels-confirmed-for-bc-place/#comments):

By the way, I’ve been told by the city that Pavco had already made inquiries about how high the towers could go and have been told that the province, just like everyone else, will have to respect the view cones.

[Locked In]

Posted by raggedy13 in the Canadian City Proposals thread (http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=132178&page=70) - nice finds:

^Nice to finally see some renderings. Some aspects of it I like the looks of, others may take some time getting used to. It will at least be fairly unique for downtown.

Here are some better quality images from Paragon's website:

http://www.paragongaming.com/wp-content/uploads/ParagonGaming_Ground_2010_03_13a_sized.jpg
http://www.paragongaming.com/news/bc-place-complex-to-create-thousands-of-jobs/

http://www.paragongaming.com/wp-content/uploads/ParagonGaming_Aerial_2010_03_13a_sized.jpg
http://www.paragongaming.com/news/bc-place-complex-to-create-thousands-of-jobs/

http://www.paragongaming.com/wp-content/uploads/BC-PLACE-LOCATION-PLAN-sized.jpg
http://www.paragongaming.com/news/bc-place-complex-to-create-thousands-of-jobs/

Will really change the look and feel of that area:

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2530/3683959422_e3a10ae8f9_b.jpg
my pic

[vancityrox]

I really hope the design changes as well. Its not as exciting as i thought it would be. There definitly needs to be more light but i doubt that will make it nicer. I think the problem is its boxy shape and the wood surrounding it. Im all for the west coast look but lets not screw this up now! Good to see that its moving along though. I think these renderings will be changed. Im sure they are out now so they can get the publics feedback and make any other changes as they go. This project reminds me of the one Montreal tried to propose for the Cirque de Soleil/Montreal mega casino at Olympic Stadium/Park. The renderings for this complex was unbelievable and too good to be true....if only...

[EastVanMark]

This design is absolutely hideous and looks like any other boring condo development (except this one is on steroids) of which Vancouver already has far too many of, and does nothing to signify the scale or the importance of such a development as a casino.....really hope this design changes-drastically!

[cornholio]

For comparisons sake what is the size of the River Rock Casino? Or the Star Light in Queens Borough? Or Great Canadian in Coquitlam?

Just trying to get a idea of the size of 110,000 feet of casino space and the two hotels.

edit: quick looks seems like it shows the Starlight as having 168,000 feet of internal space, this I guess includes everything though including back space, stage space, bar space, etc.

If anyone can give us a better idea go for it, im having a hard time understanding the size of this thing. To me it seems in the Starlight size range.

[Spoolmak]

they should make the towers and casino more flashy. Its a casino, not a library. And to me it looks like a library with condos.

[EastVanMark]

I agree. Crown Casino in Melbourne is a good example of how to make a Casino interact with its outside surroundings; Vegas is not.

The Crown Casino is a great project and manages to interact well with its surroundings while still securing its place as a major destination within the city. This proposal does neither. We need a design like the Crown.:tup:

[EastVanMark]

they should make the towers and casino more flashy. Its a casino, not a library. And to me it looks like a library with condos.

Absolutely. A casino is supposed to be an exciting, landmark destination in any city. This proposal doesn't even come close!!!

[mr.x]

For comparisons sake what is the size of the River Rock Casino? Or the Star Light in Queens Borough? Or Great Canadian in Coquitlam?

Just trying to get a idea of the size of 110,000 feet of casino space and the two hotels.

edit: quick looks seems like it shows the Starlight as having 168,000 feet of internal space, this I guess includes everything though including back space, stage space, bar space, etc.

If anyone can give us a better idea go for it, im having a hard time understanding the size of this thing. To me it seems in the Starlight size range.

River Rock: 70,000 sq. feet gaming space
Starlight: 100,000 sq. feet gaming space
Crown Casino Melbourne: 220,000 sq. feet gaming space



What more can I say? At least it's an improvement over Edgewater?:shrug: I wasn't expecting roller coasters, etc. but I was expecting that the facility would be a bit larger.

Although this is the preliminary design, I highly doubt it'll change much...but if they do change the two towers, cut out the Vancouver cookie cutter, it'll make all the difference.

[Spoolmak]

Especially since Paragon out of Vegas is the company, you'd think it would have more of a Vegasy feel to it.

[mr.x]

Especially since Paragon out of Vegas is the company, you'd think it would have more of a Vegasy feel to it.

...or they came to Vancouver and realized they'd have to appease to local flavours of keeping it low-key.:tup:

[Canadian Mind]

Good call on the Smith street extension... though that's going to be a nightmare intersection. Maybe that should be the site of a large 2-3 lane roundabout?

And thanks for the renderings there Raggady (and locked in. lol).

[Spoolmak]

Thats so boring though, I mean look at the new BC place. It doesn't look low key, why not have a casino as fun looking as that?

[excel]

towers are too short. they should be double that height. the other half being office/residential.

[Spoolmak]

No residential.

[mr.x]

towers are too short. they should be double that height. the other half being office/residential.

I think the towers are at about the right height, any taller and you'd shadow our brand new retractable roof next door.

[vanman]

I'm completely at a loss as to how this development can cost 450million. You'd think you would be able to get alot more for that kind of money. The massing reminds me of Crossroads, and looks like something that should be built on the south side of False Creek not the north.

[officedweller]

Agreed that the casino podium is either drab or boxy - casinos love windowless spaces. The few windows would probably be for the restaurants.

Is the facade really proposed as wood or is it precast concrete? Looks alot like precast.

It would be nice if the towers stepped a bit more than they do or had curves that "wrap" the perimeter of the stadium.

Hpefully the "connection" to the stadium won't block off the current exterior concourse around the stadium (otherwsie the Plaza of nations would be even harder to get to).

WRT the Smithe Street extension - that's been on the books for years. I wonder whether they will have to demolish and rebuild the Cambie Bridge off-ramp to Pacific (right now it looks like there is only emergency vehicle access over a lowered curb). The roundabout looks like it'll give cars a U-turn route without having to head up Smithe St. (I wonder if Concord has already agreed to the encroachment of the roundabout/roadway onto its parcel?)

I'm completely at a loss as to how this development can cost 450million. You'd think you would be able to get alot more for that kind of money. The massing reminds me of Crossroads, and looks like something that should be built on the south side of False Creek not the north.

Blame the view cones.

BTW - the massing is actually quite "big" - if the former Pivotal Building is drawn to scale (which is questionable) - it will be a bit more than twice the height of the Pivotal Building and the podium will be the height of the shorter part of the Pivotal Building (looks like 5 storeys?). See below. Pivotal Building to the left of the casino.

Slightly larger/more clear picture from the CBC..

http://www.cbc.ca/gfx/images/news/photos/2010/03/26/bc-100326-bc-place-casino-paragon.jpg
http://www.cbc.ca/gfx/images/news/photos/2010/03/26/bc-100326-bc-place-casino-paragon.jpg

[Smooth]

I don't mind the design too much. The one thing I was dreading was that it would be over the top and make BC Place look like one big mix of random structures on a huge lot. I like the look of the south facing windows on the southern building. If you look closely you'll notice that they're all angled differently. The north building is pretty dull though.

I do agree with some that it doesn't meet the street well. Hopefully that can be adjusted before shovels are in the ground.

I think what will make or break this building is what finishing materials they use on the exterior. I remember looking at renderings of the new convention centre and hating it but with the use of the wood and glass I think it came out fine.

In the end, if it was a really flashy building I think all the local residents would have hated it even more because it would look and feel like it was just dropped into the neighbourhood.

As for the surrounding streets, I think that new street should just be one way where it connects to Smithe. Hopefully that's why they have that round-about there. It also looks like they expect that Pacific Blvd is a two way street. If that is the case then that would be a huge change for the area. It would also make it more of a challenge to remove the Georgia viaduct and integrate that with the surface streets ;)

[mr.x]

If only they could add in a big nightclub into it too with Gossip going.

[Metro-One]

The problem with this design it really looks like a condo complex with an oversize podium.

Nothing about the design to me say "entertainment, fun, destination, downtown, etc..."

In fact the Boulevard Casino is arguable more interesting and "entertainment" looking in nature than this bore.

We don't need a design straight out of Vegas, but something a little more interesting, original and flashy would be nice.

Good call on it looking like a Library.

In fact, the Vancouver library building downtown looks far more like a casino / entertainment destination than this concept!

And yes, it is a casino, it needs some lighting features!

[yogiderek]

absolutely grotesque, couldn't they come up with something a little bit more original. It looks more like multi storey parkade with two boring residential towers placed on top.

[officedweller]

As for the surrounding streets, I think that new street should just be one way where it connects to Smithe. Hopefully that's why they have that round-about there. It also looks like they expect that Pacific Blvd is a two way street. If that is the case then that would be a huge change for the area. It would also make it more of a challenge to remove the Georgia viaduct and integrate that with the surface streets ;)

Good observation - I how that's just artistic licence though.
The headlights seem to show that stretch of Smithe north of the roundabout being 2-way (so northbound traffic over the bridge can access it without looping around Beatty and Pacific.

[Spoolmak]

I was imagining a big, bold dark blue, all glass building like City Center in Vegas. Maybe not as tall, but that would be prime.
Scratch that, 2 buildings. With a laser light show in the center everynight, and an open air rooftop lounge...and...now I'm dreaming