[nobase2010]

Vancouver to support Women's Fifa World Cup 2015 bid

http://www.metronews.ca/vancouver/sports/article/756065--vancouver-to-support-women-s-world-cup-bid

[Yume-sama]

Is this like... the first ever Women's World Cup or has this existed in the past :P? (mostly serious, I had to Google it)

[nova9]

No, do you remember the Women's World Cup hosted by the USA in 1999. The US defeated China in penalty kicks and Brandi Chastain the captain celebrated by pulling off her jersey to reveal her sports bra. It caused quite the controversy back then.

[delboy]

I love it. And the glass facade on the stadium really reminds me of the New Wembley.

Absolutely love the new terry Fox memorial it really captures the essence of what he did and how tough it must have been. Very fitting. Coupland had out done himself, cant wait!

[crazyjoeda]

I just dont want it to be named for some brewery because that is the equivilant to naming it after a tobacco company.

Not that I'm in favor of Budweiser having naming rights, but how is a brewery anything like a tobacco company?

[dreambrother808]

Absolutely love the new terry Fox memorial it really captures the essence of what he did and how tough it must have been. Very fitting. Coupland had out done himself, cant wait!

Agreed. I'm thoroughly impressed. What great luck for this city to have Coupland!

[nova9]

Not that I'm in favor of Budweiser having naming rights, but how is a brewery anything like a tobacco company?

I know someone in what I assume to be a senior position at In-Bev in Vancouver and I he stated to me that In-Bev (Budweiser) is not interested in the naming rights to BC Place and that they will be focussing more on the fan experience inside stadia.

And that we had to "look forward to" something with the NHL in the future (not canucks but NHL).

Believe it or not, but that's what I heard from someone I know is on the inside.

[BCPhil]

I know someone in what I assume to be a senior position at In-Bev in Vancouver and I he stated to me that In-Bev (Budweiser) is not interested in the naming rights to BC Place and that they will be focussing more on the fan experience inside stadia.

And that we had to "look forward to" something with the NHL in the future (not canucks but NHL).

Believe it or not, but that's what I heard from someone I know is on the inside.

The story I saw on the news had the Budweiser VP (or something) flatly saying they are not buying the naming rights. Call me a traditionalist, but you can't go out and rename a stadium that the Queen and the Pope have visited, and that hosted the Olympics. If anything it should be Royal BC Olympic Place.

Regarding the NHL rumor, is it possible that the next Heritage Classic (not the winter classic) will be held in Vancouver. There is nothing really that says you HAVE to play the game in subzero temperatures. The Canucks could easily sell out 3 or 4 games in BC Place.

[sacrifice333]

^Ooooo, that would be cool!

[Yume-sama]

lol Royal BC Olympic Stadium would be a dumb name :P And free advertising to RBC ;)

And no there's nothing *saying* hockey can't be played below zero, but if you want ice... I recall them saying the highest temp they could be comfortable keeping the ice at was +3. By the end of the game the ice was pretty see through and you could see the cooling pumps under it and this was with sub-zero temps.

It would be hard to keep BC Place (roof open or closed) with low enough temperatures to sustain a hard ice, with a full crowd especially.

It got pretty bloody hot inside during the opening / closing ceremonies of the Olympics.

[Locked In]

^ I think the problem with the ice is moisture (i.e. rain, humidity), not ambient air temperature. The temp in any arena is way way above zero. If they have the right ice-making equipment there, I don't see it really being a big issue as long as it's not a typical rainy Vancouver day and they didn't make the wrong decision about the roof.

[crazyjoeda]

I have never been to an arena that was anywhere near as cold as 3c, so I don't see why BC Place wouldn't work. The ice at Robson square does alright and Vancouver is typically quite a bit warmer than 3c.

[SpikePhanta]

Why don't they just use the same tech Rogers arena uses?

Because Rogers Arena doesnt have a dehumidifier it uses this special solution to make the ice feel good.

Heck Rogers Arena was voted by the players as one of the best ice in the league.

[cornholio]

Keep in mind that in October the Canucks bought all rights to the former Millionaires jerseys, logos and name. Next year will be 100 years from the day the Millionaires begun playing. Ottawa holds the rights to their original jerseys from that period of time. The Millionaires and Senators have lots of history between each other. In 1915 the Millionaires defeated the Senators to win the cup in the first year of a agreement between NHA and PCHA.

Lots of history there for a meaningful Heritage Classic.

Not to mention that the only two teams yet to play in one are Vancouver and Ottawa.

[Yume-sama]

Then it will likely be in Ottawa :P Especially considering none of the previous Classics have been in the East.

The ice-level temperature is way different from the temperature of the rest of the building. If you've ever sat first row on the glass you know it's pretty cold.

It would be near impossible to keep the ice that cold in an enclosed building like BC Place with 60,000 people, without the proper ventilation systems in place.

If it was possible, perhaps the Olympic Gold Medal game should have been played in BC Place with a gigantic crowd lol

[golog]

Sept 27 1991, Los Angeles Kings hosted an exhibition game against the New York Rangers, outdoors in Las Vegas

The biggest trouble with outdoor games in warm weather is sunlight and rain. There is no technical problem preventing a rink in BC Place. Controlling the local weather is a huge advantage, cold air sinks so long as it doesn't get blown away first.

The Pittsburgh game this year was +12°C and raining

[cornholio]

Then it will likely be in Ottawa :P Especially considering none of the previous Classics have been in the East.

The ice-level temperature is way different from the temperature of the rest of the building. If you've ever sat first row on the glass you know it's pretty cold.

It would be near impossible to keep the ice that cold in an enclosed building like BC Place with 60,000 people, without the proper ventilation systems in place.

If it was possible, perhaps the Olympic Gold Medal game should have been played in BC Place with a gigantic crowd lol

Yes but Pavco and Aqualini have stated they have been in talks with the NHL for hosting a game at BC Place stadium.;)

Everything is ready to go and all involved parties have been proactive in making this happen.

[cornholio]

Also the outdoor temperature in Vancouver is a non issue. Creating a ice surface is easy, in fact it would be easier in BC Place because they would have better control over the climate. Golog explained it well enough.

Infact this got me thinking that they should set up a permanent cooling system and periodically turn the entire surface of BC Place in to a a giant ice rink for the public. It would be incredibly easy to do and maintain since BC Place is like a indoor stadium where surface climate can be easily controlled and the surface is already concrete and leveled. With a cooling system in place all they need to do is throw some tubing across the floor when they want ice and dump some water on it. This should take a hour or so to do each time and then a few hours to a day for the water to freeze. It would be a wicked gift back to the people and imo would be profitable, you can have the ice rink set up several times a year for a few days each or what ever works when there are no other events scheduled.

[nobase2010]

This was original plan to wrap the city with Vanoc's look of the games. But it was change, they wanted to save money because of the recession.

http://www.ibigroup.com:88/sites/ibipublic/Project%20Picture%20Library/vanoc-01.jpg

http://www.ibigroup.com:88/sites/ibipublic/Project%20Picture%20Library/vanoc-02.jpg

http://www.ibigroup.com:88/sites/ibipublic/Project%20Picture%20Library/vanoc-03.jpg

http://www.ibigroup.com:88/sites/ibipublic/Project%20Picture%20Library/vanoc-04.jpg

http://www.ibigroup.com:88/sites/ibipublic/Project%20Picture%20Library/vanoc-05.jpg

[SpikePhanta]

OMg, those pics are amazing, If I was a billionaire I would have donated the cash to put those things up.

[GeeCee]

I love the crosswalks! And the umbrellas. :)

[cjohnny4]

Getting this thread back a bit more on topic...

So how many of the masts now have the permanent cables attached? It's a bit hard to tell from the webcams since looking at all those cables makes my eyes tired! Also, anyone have an idea of how many sets of permanent cables are being installed per day?

[mr.x]

OMG....what could have been........sigh.
False Creek and BC Place would have been amazing. And check out the Olympic rings atop Grouse in the second picture.

[raggedy13]

Here's a pic I took today...

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5053/5403303165_4f3efe8163_b.jpg

[cc85]

Absolutely massive!

[vanlaw]

OMG....what could have been........sigh.
False Creek and BC Place would have been amazing. And check out the Olympic rings atop Grouse in the second picture.

Tourists who came to Vancouver generally had very favourable impressions of the city, of the venues etc. We were absolutely blessed with the sunny, warm weather throughout as well (from a tourist perspective, not a competitor at Cypress perspective). Most will remember the great atmosphere downtown and the great weather which enabled fantastic views of the mountains, pleasant walks along seawall etc.

What they don’t know doesn’t matter. It doesn’t make much sense to look at that a year later and say "oh man.....it could have been so much better".

The games were fantastic, it was what it was, and the feel and energy in the city was great, regardless of whether they cut back on a few things. I am born and raised in Vancouver. I thought the look and feel of the city was amazing. I had some friends from overseas visit, their first trip to Vancouver. - they were blown away.

[flight_from_kamakura]

i still just can't get over the ugly fencing and cinder-blocks everywhere, especially on the concord lands and the stadia. like it was pretty cheaply done, and looking at this vision really does bum me out. opportunity missed, definitely.

[nova9]

i still just can't get over the ugly fencing and cinder-blocks everywhere, especially on the concord lands and the stadia. like it was pretty cheaply done, and looking at this vision really does bum me out. opportunity missed, definitely.

for me, it is a non-issue. everyone knows they are temporary fencing and to expect it be any nicer is asking a lot. i mean, there was a lot of fencing that was put up. i thought the livery and banners did enough of a job to inject some life into the chainmail fences.

[cornholio]

i still just can't get over the ugly fencing and cinder-blocks everywhere, especially on the concord lands and the stadia. like it was pretty cheaply done, and looking at this vision really does bum me out. opportunity missed, definitely.

Its nice looking back and thinking what should have been, but it doesnt change the fact that you still dont know what would have been.

Just imagine VANOC going even more over budget, what many consider frivolous spending right in everyone's sight all the time, more complicated run up to the games which would increase risks of corruption, etc. What could have happened was a major negative story being created, protests and increased negative public opinion, blown budget, further loss of trust in government, etc, and the ramifications could have been disproportionally big. Then we would all be saying here we should have cut back, opportunity missed.

What actually was looks pretty good compared to some of the what could have beens in my eyes.

[Locked In]

Thanks Raggedy. The masts on the left side of the photo without the platforms at the top (those that have had the permanent cables attached) look great - much sleeker.

[nobase2010]

yKaDRdRfhdU

[Fairbanks]

What are thoughts on Vancouver getting a Major League Baseball team once the "new" open-air stadium is complete. I would love to see Vancovuer and Seattle become arch rivals.

I think there is a market for Baseball in Vancouver. The Asian community would support this for sure.

[Metro-One]

What are thoughts on Vancouver getting a Major League Baseball team once the "new" open-air stadium is complete. I would love to see Vancovuer and Seattle become arch rivals.

I think there is a market for Baseball in Vancouver. The Asian community would support this for sure.

I would love to see a Major League Baseball team in Vancouver, more so than the NBA.

[golog]

screengrab from bcplacestadium.com
http://i.imgur.com/lyhFH.png

Good skyline picture hinting at things to come.

[invisibleairwaves]

Considering Montreal and its larger population couldn't hold on to an MLB franchise, I doubt we'll see one in Vancouver for a very long time.

[Canadian Mind]

Considering Montreal and its larger population couldn't hold on to an MLB franchise, I doubt we'll see one in Vancouver for a very long time.

Considering Phoenix is larger than Vancouver and can't hold an NHL franchise...

All depends on what the population will be willing to watch. Just because Montreal is bigger doesn't mean Vancouver doesn't have more potential MLB fans.

[crazyjoeda]

I don't see MLB coming to Vancouver, personally I think the sport is boring it's actually punishment to watch.

[Canadian Mind]

I don't see MLB coming to Vancouver, personally I think the sport is boring it's actually punishment to watch.

I went to a game in NJ once. don't ask me who was playing. I didn't know nor care, nor did half the people in the stadium. The point of an MLB game is to get really drunk it seems.

I enjoyed it. Don't remember most of it though.

[nova9]

What are thoughts on Vancouver getting a Major League Baseball team once the "new" open-air stadium is complete. I would love to see Vancovuer and Seattle become arch rivals.

I think there is a market for Baseball in Vancouver. The Asian community would support this for sure.

A response using LARGE generalizations but, no, the community now is mostly mainland chinese and they are only interested in the NBA. Only the taiwanese and japanese and maybe some Koreans would like MLB actually. HKers are mostly interested in the EPL (football), mostly Arsenal or Man U.

[oy1234]

from the bc place website this morning:

BCPlace2011: CONSTRUCTION UPDATE: The New BC Place is scheduled to be complete by September 30th

[tovan]

BC Place reno to be completed by Sept. 30
Last Updated: Monday, February 7, 2011 | 9:57 AM PT


Work on BC Place is expected to be completed by Sept. 30. (BC Place)
BC Place officials have announced revitalization work on the stadium is scheduled to be completed by Friday, Sept. 30.

The massive $565-million renovation includes the installation of the largest cable-supported retractable roof of its kind in the world. The stadium's seats are also being replaced with wider versions.

Work to install the 36 masts and compression beams that make up the steel superstructure of the new retractable roof at BC Place is now complete. The cable-net system to support the new fabric roof is now being installed.

“There’s still a lot of work to do of course, but we have an exceptional team of skilled tradespeople, designers, engineers and construction professionals involved in this project,” said David Podmore, chair of the BC Pavilion Corporation (PavCo), in a news release.

He cautioned the Sept. 30 date could change.

"Our September 30th scheduled completion is also dependent on weather or other factors beyond our control. While we will do our level best to be ready on that date, we will, of course, always put the safety of our talented and dedicated workers ahead of any other consideration. Nonetheless, construction at BC Place is progressing so well, that we are now at a point where we can confidently set the re-opening date,” Podmore added.

He said the BC Lions and Vancouver Whitecaps FC are now able to finalize their plans for 2011. BC Place will host the Grey Cup on Nov. 27.


Read more: http://www.cbc.ca/canada/british-columbia/story/2011/02/07/bc-bc-place-construction.html#ixzz1DIlXEcVo

Video: http://www.cbc.ca/video/player.html?category=News&zone=canada&site=cbc.news.ca&clipid=1779748429

[raggedy13]

^Just in time for our rainy fall weather. :P (October usually isn't too bad though)

[DKaz]

A response using LARGE generalizations but, no, the community now is mostly mainland chinese and they are only interested in the NBA. Only the taiwanese and japanese and maybe some Koreans would like MLB actually. HKers are mostly interested in the EPL (football), mostly Arsenal or Man U.

I don't know a single Asian person who doesn't watch hockey, and this ranges from 2nd gen Chinese (HK, don't know many mainlanders)-Canadians to immigrant Vietnamese to Japanese ESL students, they're all somehow drawn in to the game of hockey.

[Pinion]

I don't know a single Asian person who doesn't watch hockey, and this ranges from 2nd gen Chinese (HK, don't know many mainlanders)-Canadians to immigrant Vietnamese to Japanese ESL students, they're all somehow drawn in to the game of hockey.

It's easy to be drawn in when it's the only game in town. I came from Australia and was a huge fan within a year. I used to be a huge rugby fan and now barely remember half the rules.

The completion date seems a bit ambitious. I'm getting more and more weary about this project - just like Jameson House.

[nova9]

I don't know a single Asian person who doesn't watch hockey, and this ranges from 2nd gen Chinese (HK, don't know many mainlanders)-Canadians to immigrant Vietnamese to Japanese ESL students, they're all somehow drawn in to the game of hockey.

I'm not speaking of the Canadian-born, like myself, which are hockey watchers but mostly from lack of choices. I didn't know many Chinese-Canadians that could afford to play hockey so picked up basketball or soccer. And now as adults, we are joining ice hockey rec leagues in droves.

But if you're talking about what sports they watched back home and are more likely to stay tuned to on TV, it's basketball in China and football in HK - hands down, no contest.

Anyway, what is ambiguous about the Sept. 30th date? I mean, how much more exact can it be - by the 30th?

[golog]

About 14 thick temporary cables left to be replaced, so 22 permanent cables up

[SpongeG]

Casino development promoters stress economic benefits for city

Developer calls plan 'stunning proposal' in advance of next week's public hearing

By Brian Morton, Vancouver Sun February 11, 2011

VANCOUVER - A huge development including two hotels and a large casino with direct access to the new BC Place will attract more visitors to the area and create economic benefits for surrounding businesses, Paragon Gaming Corp. president Scott Menke said Thursday.

"We needed to make that side of town a destination," Menke said at a Vancouver Board of Trade luncheon.

"Our customers would be interconnected with all the other neighbourhoods, [like] Robson Street and Chinatown."

Although there were no new announcements at the luncheon, Menke and B.C. Pavilion Corp. (PavCo) chair David Podmore gave an update on the project, saying it will create a unique entertainment destination in downtown Vancouver.

Menke said that casino visitors will spend a lot of money locally.

"The type of visitors we attract will be bleeding out into the community. Small businesses will benefit."

In giving his reasons for selecting the project, Podmore called the plan extremely well thought out and researched.

"We think they have an absolutely stunning proposal that we hope will be supported by the city and community. And we think that it will be the catalyst to the continuing evolution of False Creek."

Last month, Vancouver city council gave preliminary approval to what would be the largest casino in Western Canada as part of the development around BC Place.

But in a signal of concern that the expansion of gambling in the city may not be in the best interests of its citizens, councillors posed a raft of questions for staff and B.C. Lottery Corp. to answer before the plan goes to a public hearing next Thursday.

...

Read more: http://www.vancouversun.com/news/Casino+development+promoters+stress+economic+benefits+city/4264059/story.html#ixzz1DjHPA7CI

[Prometheus]

Last night, Global did a story on the renovation. It contains a glimpse of a new render which shows how the new seating and video screen will look: http://www.globaltvbc.com/video/index.html?releasePID=wjh0mP2akaIiRsuF1kGf9xKwNPS97ao_

Also, here is a story from yesterday's Province. It contains some interesting new tidbits about the finished interior (namely, lighting special effects using LED technology): http://www.theprovince.com/Tour+Place+reveals+tricks+trades+behind+500m+cable+supported+roof/4269251/story.html

[Fairbanks]

I have read in this thread that the concrete rails around the walkways are being replaced with "glass" or plexi. Might be cool to make the out of stainless steel, similar to the new rim around the roof. Would tie things together nicely.

Thoughts?

[Overground]

If you mean these things then I think they should definitely be transparent.

http://i53.tinypic.com/2hxyki8.jpg
http://www.bcplacestadium.com/images/big_Ramps3.jpg

Millennium Bridge as an example
http://i54.tinypic.com/f23ncy.jpg
http://www.edwud.com/photos/millennium_bridge_st_pauls.jpg

[Fairbanks]

Does anyone have a count of roof cables in place yet?

[tovan]

Last night, Global did a story on the renovation. It contains a glimpse of a new render which shows how the new seating and video screen will look: http://www.globaltvbc.com/video/index.html?releasePID=wjh0mP2akaIiRsuF1kGf9xKwNPS97ao_

Also, here is a story from yesterday's Province. It contains some interesting new tidbits about the finished interior (namely, lighting special effects using LED technology): http://www.theprovince.com/Tour+Place+reveals+tricks+trades+behind+500m+cable+supported+roof/4269251/story.html

http://i56.tinypic.com/2myamb.jpg

[nova9]

After the superbowl and those massive screens at Cowboy Stadium (the size of 2 basketball courts, and there are 2 of them), any screen in any other stadium looks small and quaint, ours especially so.

haha.

[Zassk]

^ And yet it is not a small screen. I forget the figures from earlier in this thread, but the new BC Place screen is nearly 3x the size of the Rogers Arena screen (which itself is the largest in the NHL/NBA).

[Yume-sama]

The Canucks' screen is noticeably (almost disproportionately :P) huge, too. Should be interesting to see what this looks like in person~

The screen in Dallas cost almost 10% of our total budget lol

[SpongeG]

why watch the real action when you can watch TV eh

[officedweller]

Has this power point presentation bee posted before?

Paragon is called the project "Victory Place":

http://www.paragongaming.com/downloads/PARAGON-VICTORY-PLACE.pdf

5 star internationally branded luxury hotel
4 star boutique hotel
Authentic Chinese restaurant
Rooftop steakhouse

Renders look very funky traditional (think Opus Hotel) - as opposed to clean sleek modern.

[agrant]

:previous: Looks new to me. Thanks for posting that.

Just curious, but has anyone been to Vegas? Does this project resemble any of the Casino/Hotels down there as far as size and contents within??

The outward appearance of the structure... seems a little bit higgledy piggledy, but wouldn't be terribly disappointed if they went with this look.

[LeftCoaster]

It has about the same size gaming floor as the Bellagio in Vegas, but I would be surprised if the quality was anywhere near most Vegas casinos, let alone the Bellagio.

[Yume-sama]

Wow, it actually looks really nice.

Looks a bit too fancy to have my penny slots, though. Sigh.

[WarrenC12]

Wow, it actually looks really nice.

Looks a bit too fancy to have my penny slots, though. Sigh.

Everything is computer controlled. There will be penny slots during weekday morning slow times. Not Friday nights though. :tup:

[Yume-sama]

Oh, but it's just not the same with the tacky penny decorations hanging from the ceiling.

If there's one thing Vegas excels at it's tacky!

[jlousa]

I don't remember anything being posted about the new turf at BC Place. There is an rfp out that hints at the new turg. Fieldturf was the perceived front runner, but it now looks like they have chosen “ polytan ligaturf”. Hopefully they are going with one of their 2star systems and not just the 1star.

The 2star system is superior and allows higher profile games to be played then the 1star system. If the Whitecaps want to go after some topnotch players having the 2star system in place would certainly help somewhat.

[SpongeG]

they have some kind of display about teh stadium at richmond centre - probably for the white caps but i didn't look properly only from behind looks like it had some interested people looking at it

[metroXpress]

^ I think it's the same one I saw at PNE a while back.

[SFUVancouver]

^ It's a road show. They parked the model at the Tourism Vancouver visitor centre last summer during the height of convention season. It was also parked in the lobby of the original convention centre for a while last spring.

[nova9]

the model was at the boat show last week.

[canada1824]

From what I see, Bing Thom is leading a fight against the casino, any remarks on that?

[dreambrother808]

Being against casinos is puritanical malarky, IMO.
What right do people think they have to make such "moral" judgements?
If that's what they're basing their protest on...

[ckkelley]

I think that the casino detractors are particularly wrong-headed just based on the fact that there's been an existing casino across the street for several years now.

[whatnext]

Being against casinos is puritanical malarky, IMO.
What right do people think they have to make such "moral" judgements?
If that's what they're basing their protest on...

There is no socially redeeming quality to gambling whatsoever. The saddest thing I ever saw was going into River Rock and seeing seniors spending their pension cheques sitting glassy eyed in front of slot machines. Its a fools game, where the odds are always in favour of the house. What's the "entertainment value" in that? There is little unique in a casino that will bring tourists to Vancouver, that's just a crock.

The jobs argument is a weak one. Why not build a nuclear power plant in metro, since it will create jobs as well. I've seen friends driven to scamming money off their elderly parents to support a gambling addiction. Since it doesn't involves shootings etc its not sexy enough to make the news. The city might just as well slap a tax on crack, and then peddle it at Main & Hastings to make a quick buck.

[Yume-sama]

You could question the socially redeemable merits of almost any popular activity that people take part in (and people try, with the Canucks, Lions, sports stadiums in general). I could make the same argument about bars, nightclubs, pubs, etc., because they're really not my cup of tea. In truth, it's neither yours, or the governments (despite their best efforts) responsibility, to decide what's best for other people. There are plenty of people (the majority) who call it a night out and are responsible. It's not my idea of fun, but I'm not high and mighty enough to try and people what they should be doing with their own time and money :P

There are more destructive behaviours, though granted, gambling, drugs, etc. seem to go hand in hand.

But so do douchey people with spiked hair and Ed Hardy clothing but we can't outlaw that, either.

[dreambrother808]

I spend $20 at a casino once a year, because I also see the pointlessness of gambling. Table games have some decent odds if you're good at them though. My mother, on the other hand, spends about that much every other week. Both are harmless. My mom is a 60something lady who takes pleasure in going to a casino with her friends. What the hell is wrong with that? She is not glassy eyed or stupid. She knows the odds and plays within her limits. It's nice to have the fantasy of winning some extra money when you're a widow who was once used to having a husband with a rather good income.

[cornholio]

There is no socially redeeming quality to gambling whatsoever. The saddest thing I ever saw was going into River Rock and seeing seniors spending their pension cheques sitting glassy eyed in front of slot machines. Its a fools game, where the odds are always in favour of the house. What's the "entertainment value" in that? There is little unique in a casino that will bring tourists to Vancouver, that's just a crock.

The jobs argument is a weak one. Why not build a nuclear power plant in metro, since it will create jobs as well. I've seen friends driven to scamming money off their elderly parents to support a gambling addiction. Since it doesn't involves shootings etc its not sexy enough to make the news. The city might just as well slap a tax on crack, and then peddle it at Main & Hastings to make a quick buck.

Hope.

The glue that holds society together.

[cornholio]

I should add that I dont gamble. I think to much about the numbers and odds and cant ever find it enjoyable, but im certain im more of a exception than the norm in that regard.

[Yume-sama]

I can't gamble because I'm cheap :D

[cornholio]

I can't gamble because I'm cheap :D

:haha: Thanks for reminding me of the second reason why I also dont gamble. I think that saving money for cheap people is a very similar feeling to wining money for gamblers. :yes:

[whatnext]

I spend $20 at a casino once a year, because I also see the pointlessness of gambling. Table games have some decent odds if you're good at them though. My mother, on the other hand, spends about that much every other week. Both are harmless. My mom is a 60something lady who takes pleasure in going to a casino with her friends. What the hell is wrong with that? She is not glassy eyed or stupid. She knows the odds and plays within her limits. It's nice to have the fantasy of winning some extra money when you're a widow who was once used to having a husband with a rather good income.

Certainly you and your mum are amongst the lucky ones. Like Yume, I'm too cheap to throw my money away at a casino. Unfortunately there are many for whom it is an addiction, as bad as drugs. Plus, we have the example just across the bridge in Richmond of the kind of criminal behaviour that it encourages. Whether its loan-sharking, car jackings, there's a host of social ills that come with it. Do we really need to encourage that? And all for what?

[invisibleairwaves]

People can get addicted to anything. Should we run the local video game developers out of town because some people get hooked on that? Or ban any one of the massive list of hobbies that people spent fortunes on?

Yeah, gambling addictions suck. But that's the cost of living in a free society, where the government doesn't swoop in and eradicate anything that might potentially harm someone somewhere. Objecting to a casino (that already exists) to prevent gambling addictions just isn't reasonable. And of course if you fail to provide people with a legal way of doing something, they will do it illegally instead, and all the societal ills that go with it will be far, far worse than they would have been with a legal, accountable, easily policed casino.

[whatnext]

People can get addicted to anything. Should we run the local video game developers out of town because some people get hooked on that? Or ban any one of the massive list of hobbies that people spent fortunes on?

Yeah, gambling addictions suck. But that's the cost of living in a free society, where the government doesn't swoop in and eradicate anything that might potentially harm someone somewhere. Objecting to a casino (that already exists) to prevent gambling addictions just isn't reasonable. And of course if you fail to provide people with a legal way of doing something, they will do it illegally instead, and all the societal ills that go with it will be far, far worse than they would have been with a legal, accountable, easily policed casino.

Exactly what benefit do you see this greatly expanded casino bringing?

[invisibleairwaves]

Exactly what benefit do you see this greatly expanded casino bringing?

Jobs, tax revenue, and a place for locals and tourists to have some fun. What's wrong with that, exactly?

[Zassk]

Exactly what benefit do you see this greatly expanded casino bringing?

The amount of casino money that gets poured back into our society is non-trivial. And every cent of it is given up voluntarily. What other usage of Granny's money would benefit the local society and economy more than spending it in a provincially-run casino?

[dreambrother808]

My mom and I aren't the "lucky ones". We are the normal ones, the vast majority. I only know one person with a gambling addiction, yet I know far more people who have suffered from alcoholism, smoking, car accidents, etc.

[crazyjoeda]

I read this casino expansion will bring tax payers in Vancouver and BC a quarter of a billion dollars every year. That is a lot of money. I would understand the argument against casinos a little better if we had a long standing tradition of not allowing casinos, but we don't there are many other casinos in the Vancouver area. I believe that the government prohibition of marijuana is supporting organized crime and doing more harm to society than the legal regulated sale would do. Gambling is a similar situation it would still happen even if it were illegal but it would provide no benefit to society. Better people lose money here to benefit tax payers here than play illegally to solely benefit criminals or go to Vegas and benefit the state of Nevada.

BTW, I don't understand why people gamble especially on slot machines it looks as much fun as playing solitaire at home all alone.

[BCPhil]

Exactly what benefit do you see this greatly expanded casino bringing?

What benefit do bars on Granville street have? I would wager that more fights break out on Granville street in a month than have ever happened inside a casino in BC. Just last week a bouncer was shot infront of a Granville street bar. When was the last time a person was shot on Casino property? While there are some deep seeded social ills involved with Casinos, the harm done by drinking is far greater and further reaching. There are fights, shootings, stabbings, rapes and sexual assaults all the time as a result of drinking. Alcoholics beat their families, steal from work or lose their jobs. But I don't think we are going to give up drinking because it harms a few. I don't think we are going to close down watering holes all over the city. We did that before, it didn't seem to work as well as intended.

What about the Lotto? IMHO, lotteries and scratch and wins are a million times worse than a casino. While a casino might capture many degenerates and addict them to the rush of gambling, lottos give false hope to millions who spend thousands each every year on the long shot of improving their lives. It's a government run smokescreen to placate the downtrodden into accepting their position in life and make them believe that if they just buy one more ticket, maybe they'll be rich. "Hey, it's OK that you are poor, you might win the lotto." I'm sure there are many kids out there who write "Win the Lotto" as a life goal on their Career and Personal planning work in school.

If everyone who buys tickets instead bought a coffee or service from a local company, the economy would be a lot better off, but then people would realize they are poor, and that they have no chance of getting better off other than hard work.

But that's just my opinion of the lotto. It doesn't mean it shouldn't exist, or that it doesn't have it's own benefits. Maybe the social benefit of it placating people is more significant than I give it credit. Without it, maybe people would give up on living and working, harming the economy and society even more. And the government does make money off the lotto, that it does invest back into the people. The same can be said of a casino, drinking, or the lotto: perhaps the entertainment value, the escapism it brings the majority, far outweighs the harm it does to the addicted.

The other benefits of the Casino are a little more obvious. Many people work in a casino. And they are usually higher than minimum wage. If the people spending money in the Casino instead bought TVs or Cars, most of that money would be shipped overseas to where they are made, but at least the money in the Casino is bounced around locally. Those people working there go home at night, pay their rent/mortgage, buy food and services.

Having a casino right downtown also improves our tourism prospects. We are a city that bills itself on tourism, it is one of our biggest sectors. But for being so critical, there really isn't that much to do in the city, especially at night. A casino entertains people after attractions, museums and shops are closed. Many casinos have amazing dinning rooms and offer entertainment other than gambling. The increased focus of tourists on the neighbourhood also brings benefits to businesses surrounding the casino. Other restaurants will have increased foot traffic. Other theaters can see increased attendance at shows from people making it "a night out". While there is a lot of gambling in Vegas, you can't say there isn't other stuff to do. There are enough shows, bars, restaurants, shops and attractions to occupy an individual for years without ever gambling.

Spending $50 at a bar isn't everyone's idea of a good night out. For some people dropping $50 on slots or table games is. I don't really see why one would be considered OK, while the other not, when people find both/either entertaining. Both have their significant drawbacks, but both also have their good. And free choice is always good.

[whatnext]

:previous: A very good point about alcohol. I'd counter with the old "two wrongs don't make a right" argument. Its not just violent crime though, remember the new story about a couple weeks ago about money being laundered through casinos?

As to the tourism aspect, Vancouver's tourism industry did very well for decades without casinos. Hawai'i seems to do pretty well without them. Its sad that we've "progressed" to the point where creating jobs doesn't mean manufacturing anything of value, rather its all about separating people from their money in return for virtually nothing.

Anyway, its apparent we won't agree on this. With several prominent neighbourhood groups (False Creek, Strathcona) opposed to the proposal, it will be interesting to see how the council vote breaks in an election year.

[Yume-sama]

I don't think their opposition to a casino holds much merit when there is literally one across the street and the World has not ended, nor has their property prices plummeted and their kids been turned in to gambling addicted crazed crackheads. Usually there are a whole bunch of "What if's!" for the opposition but now you have actual historical fact to reflect on.

And fact is always really bad for a NIMBY.

[SFUVancouver]

Compliments of GlobalAirPhotos.com.

http://www.globalairphotos.com/images/bc/vancouver/2011/vch2011_0001.jpg
Source (http://www.globalairphotos.com/images/bc/vancouver/2011/vch2011_0001.jpg)

http://www.globalairphotos.com/images/bc/vancouver/2011/

[delboy]

There is no socially redeeming quality to gambling whatsoever. The saddest thing I ever saw was going into River Rock and seeing seniors spending their pension cheques sitting glassy eyed in front of slot machines. Its a fools game, where the odds are always in favour of the house. What's the "entertainment value" in that? There is little unique in a casino that will bring tourists to Vancouver, that's just a crock.

The jobs argument is a weak one. Why not build a nuclear power plant in metro, since it will create jobs as well. I've seen friends driven to scamming money off their elderly parents to support a gambling addiction. Since it doesn't involves shootings etc its not sexy enough to make the news. The city might just as well slap a tax on crack, and then peddle it at Main & Hastings to make a quick buck.

Society can't and shouldn't be asked to police our morals, which simply does not work. Drugs including perscription, booze, cigs, shopping addictions, junk food, video arcades....pick your poison.......if you feel casinos should be stopped to protect those of us who have no impulse controls, you'd better not just stop at gaming.

[Fairbanks]

Compliments of GlobalAirPhotos.com.

http://www.globalairphotos.com/images/bc/vancouver/2011/vch2011_0001.jpg
Source (http://www.globalairphotos.com/images/bc/vancouver/2011/vch2011_0001.jpg)

I have been searching for updates from Global Air Photos for some time now and still no photos for 2011 on their website. Please let us know how and where to find updated pics like this one.

Thanks,Fairbanks

[SFUVancouver]

I have been searching for updates from Global Air Photos for some time now and still no photos for 2011 on their website. Please let us know how and where to find updated pics like this one.

Thanks,Fairbanks

http://www.globalairphotos.com/images/bc/vancouver/2011/

[delboy]

Certainly you and your mum are amongst the lucky ones. Like Yume, I'm too cheap to throw my money away at a casino. Unfortunately there are many for whom it is an addiction, as bad as drugs. Plus, we have the example just across the bridge in Richmond of the kind of criminal behaviour that it encourages. Whether its loan-sharking, car jackings, there's a host of social ills that come with it. Do we really need to encourage that? And all for what?

I have been a copper along time and worked major offences (kidnappings, extortions, murders, shootings)..... in Burnaby...major offences i dealt with in 10 years at the casino..........ZERO

and depsite what people say, including the very misguided OIC of Richmond Det that was baseless and not supported by stats and politically motivated for additional resources, casinos don't plauge out communites with crime. Car jackings, thefts etc happen anywhere where there are large numbers of people and money and equal opportunity. I have personally investigated way more serious crimes in nightclubs. And as for money laundering....its rife here outside of casinos......

I am not suggeting they dont experience crime, but no more than anywhere else. Moreover, the intelligence gathering and security in place is very impressive.

Stats dont support this view:

http://dontgamblevancouver.wordpress.com/2011/02/20/richmond-river-rock-casino-expansion/

137 calls for service in 6 months is laughable (one a day) (when i worked patrol we had 2 - 3 cases of fraud and theft a day at sears). and look at the offences cited:

Those calls included:

— 20 cases of impaired driving; 10 cases of disturbing the peace;

— Seven cases of uttering threats;

— Six cases of fraud;

— Six cases of assault;

— Three cases of cocaine possession

15000 customers a day.....give me a break.....and casinos revenues directly pay for addtional coppers so the argument is completely moot

[cornholio]

:previous: A very good point about alcohol. I'd counter with the old "two wrongs don't make a right" argument. Its not just violent crime though, remember the new story about a couple weeks ago about money being laundered through casinos?

As to the tourism aspect, Vancouver's tourism industry did very well for decades without casinos. Hawai'i seems to do pretty well without them. Its sad that we've "progressed" to the point where creating jobs doesn't mean manufacturing anything of value, rather its all about separating people from their money in return for virtually nothing.

Anyway, its apparent we won't agree on this. With several prominent neighbourhood groups (False Creek, Strathcona) opposed to the proposal, it will be interesting to see how the council vote breaks in an election year.

If we didnt want money to be laundered we would not have hard currency.;) But we have hard currency because we have to allow for the existence of a underground economy. Currency is a form of exchange, that is all. Once you start restricting it you only devalue it.

Without casinos money still would get laundered and would have to get laundered, it is a fact of life. That doesnt mean we dont fight laundering and we shouldent, like I said morals have nothing to do with a form of exchange.

To my point. Casions are not the cause of money laundering, nor is their removal able to stop or effect money laundering.

[cornholio]

Now I know Hawaii has a laid back culture and good weather but just to play the devils advocate who is to say that there wouldn't be less homeless people if there were casinos. Maybe if they had a bit more false hope then many of the homeless would be less likely to just give up.

And there are a crap load of homeless there, more than in other similar warm climate locations in the states.

My point is no less valid then your point saying that they do "just fine" with out casinos and gambling.:)

[Yume-sama]

Hawaii has similar drug problems to our DTES. Only it's like everywhere.

[hollywoodnorth]

Hawaii has similar drug problems to our DTES. Only it's like everywhere.

someones been watching too much Dog the Bountyhunter ... LOL ;) :cheers:

[Yume-sama]

:P If there's a need for Dog, it's gotta be serious!!

But really, there is a big drug problem there lol

[dleung]

Compliments of GlobalAirPhotos.com.

http://www.globalairphotos.com/images/bc/vancouver/2011/vch2011_0001.jpg
Source (http://www.globalairphotos.com/images/bc/vancouver/2011/vch2011_0001.jpg)

http://www.globalairphotos.com/images/bc/vancouver/2011/

wow, seeing the spectrum towers like that in high contrast and looking like a circuit board actually makes them look semi-interesting to look at for once...

[dtrain]

Does anyone know where we can see some new renderings of the stadium interior with the new seating design? (I've seen the screen grab from GlobalTV video, hoping to see some better quality images.)

[Pinion]

As someone who worked in casino security, I can say with confidence that I don't think it affects the area around the casino much at all. Gossip night club (or any night club) is far worse.

It most certainly destroys lives of some people who visit, and it was depressing to work there, but we are a society that lets people make their own choices and suffer the consequences. The majority were just people having some fun after a Lions game etc.

I'd prefer a completely slot machine-free casino, as those are the biggest scam and most addictive to the most vulnerable for some reason, but of course that'll never happen.

Personally, I've never spent more than $10 in a casino, despite working in them and having a grandma who lived in Las Vegas (whose life was destroyed by a gambling addiction, it should be noted). And that $10 was in slots in Vegas when I was 19. tee hee